Fare dodger launched (literally) off the train....

[The_Exile]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16143909

I know they need to say "We're investigating" and "The public shouldn't intervene", but surely that's just for the news article and they'll not actually give a **** that this wee scrote got launched out at Linlithgow?

Should have belted his puss anaw for his lip :agree:

[easty]

Love this bit


A big man then gets up, grabs the youth and appears to throw him onto the platform at Linlithgow, West Lothian.

[Beefster]

Good for the big guy. There's too many wee neds think that they can talk to people and act however they please.

[IWasThere2016]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16143909

I know they need to say "We're investigating" and "The public shouldn't intervene", but surely that's just for the news article and they'll not actually give a **** that this wee scrote got launched out at Linlithgow?

Should have belted his puss anaw for his lip :agree:

:agree: First action then the platform launch! :cb

[Peevemor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfTR9dah9pg


:bye:

[hibsbollah]

Excellent :aok:

[The_Exile]

Scottish pride restored :aok:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The sad thing is the guy will probably end up getting charged with assault. Good on him though, theres too many feral wee radges going about these days.

[Killiehibbie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfTR9dah9pg


:bye:No doubt the fare dodger deserved what he got but the big guy might find a visit to the courthouse to explain his actions is required.

[The_Exile]

No doubt the fare dodger deserved what he got but the big guy might find a visit to the courthouse to explain his actions is required.

Which would be ridiculous, although not condoning people getting leathered in public, especially as there may be bairns about, if you act like a welt, you should get treated like one too. It's cretins like this which get their comeuppance who go greeting to plod about it though, so no doubt the big guy will be ID'd and given a slap on the wrists while the fare dodger gets an arm round the shoulder and some compo* from a train company who's train he should never have been on if he had no intention of paying.

* this is an exaggerated guess

[Phil D. Rolls]

Time for adults to take back some responsibility. I was never in favour of the clip round the ear, but too many people are scared to stand up to kids nowadays. My experience is that confronted by somebody bigger than them, the majority usually have the sense to do what they are told.

I remember being on an LRT bus on Lothian Road, kids at the back of the top deck had been smoking. He said that the smokers should get off, or the whole bus would have to disembark. After a minute of silence from the back, I turned round and said that everyone knew who it was so it would be better that they get off now, as I for one would not be happy with them if I had to get off the bus.

Couple of grunts later and they got off. Edinburgh is particularly bad for people not being prepared to speak up.

[.Sean.]

Oan yersel' Big Man!

[Sir David Gray]

I think the final paragraph tells you everything you need to know.

Out of all the other passengers who witnessed this incident, NO-ONE has reported it, either to Scotrail or to the Police.

It also mentions earlier in the article that the guy returned to his seat to applause from other passengers.

It's ridiculous to suggest that anything should happen to this guy and hopefully his actions will have made this young ned think twice before he acts like this in the future.

[SteveHFC]

Saw this the other day.

Cheers Big Man :greengrin

[wearethehibs]

Only read the article about this in the Sun. I think the "Big Man" is a knob. What if the lad had genuinely been given the wrong ticket by scotrail (knowing scotrail it wouldn't surprise me) and would this "big man" act so hard had it been another "big man" and no just a young lad. The Lad has been chucked of the train miles away from where he wanted to go....anything could have happened to him. Yes he probably shouldn't be shouting and swearing at staff but I know how angry people can get when they know they are right. If I was on that train I probably would have stood up to the coward that thinks its ok to chuck someone of a train. I'm probably completely wrong but that's my opinion for ya :)

[Kato]

As a bit balance to everyone cheering the fat vigilante guy.


Just read that the "Ned" in this story is a student. Claims he fell asleep on the train and was woken up by the inspector, being a bit dozy he handed the guy an old ticket which was of course invalid. Before he had a chance to check again he was chucked off the train. Claims he still has the valid ticket.

[Beefster]

Only read the article about this in the Sun. I think the "Big Man" is a knob. What if the lad had genuinely been given the wrong ticket by scotrail (knowing scotrail it wouldn't surprise me) and would this "big man" act so hard had it been another "big man" and no just a young lad. The Lad has been chucked of the train miles away from where he wanted to go....anything could have happened to him. Yes he probably shouldn't be shouting and swearing at staff but I know how angry people can get when they know they are right. If I was on that train I probably would have stood up to the coward that thinks its ok to chuck someone of a train. I'm probably completely wrong but that's my opinion for ya :)

The ned had been told to get off the train by the Conductor and had sworn at the Conductor. Irrespective of whether it was a ticketing error or not, he should have left the train as instructed and dealt with it at the station.

[lapsedhibee]

As a bit balance to everyone cheering the fat vigilante guy.


Just read that the "Ned" in this story is a student. Claims he fell asleep on the train and was woken up by the inspector, being a bit dozy he handed the guy an old ticket which was of course invalid. Before he had a chance to check again he was chucked off the train. Claims he still has the valid ticket.

Link?

[The_Exile]

Just read that the "Ned" in this story is a student. Claims he fell asleep on the train and was woken up by the inspector, being a bit dozy he handed the guy an old ticket which was of course invalid. Before he had a chance to check again he was chucked off the train. Claims he still has the valid ticket.

I doubt the bold bit is anywhere near true, would be interesting to see the ticket as it will have the time on it etc, if that's the case then fair play, he shouldn't have been chucked off, but I prefer the "he's a chav who deserved it" version, makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[Beefster]

As a bit balance to everyone cheering the fat vigilante guy.


Just read that the "Ned" in this story is a student. Claims he fell asleep on the train and was woken up by the inspector, being a bit dozy he handed the guy an old ticket which was of course invalid. Before he had a chance to check again he was chucked off the train. Claims he still has the valid ticket.

I'm sceptical. The ned had plenty of time to swear at the Conductor repeatedly and argue for a couple of minutes before being thrown off. He could have found the right ticket with about two minutes to spare before being chucked off.

Edit: According to the Telegraph, they were arguing for a while before the video starts too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/8953365/Big-Man-who-tackled-fare-dodging-teenager-on-train-is-named.html

[Twa Cairpets]

Only read the article about this in the Sun. I think the "Big Man" is a knob. What if the lad had genuinely been given the wrong ticket by scotrail (knowing scotrail it wouldn't surprise me) and would this "big man" act so hard had it been another "big man" and no just a young lad. The Lad has been chucked of the train miles away from where he wanted to go....anything could have happened to him. Yes he probably shouldn't be shouting and swearing at staff but I know how angry people can get when they know they are right. If I was on that train I probably would have stood up to the coward that thinks its ok to chuck someone of a train. I'm probably completely wrong but that's my opinion for ya :)

I'd watch it then before forming your opinion.


As a bit balance to everyone cheering the fat vigilante guy.

Just read that the "Ned" in this story is a student. Claims he fell asleep on the train and was woken up by the inspector, being a bit dozy he handed the guy an old ticket which was of course invalid. Before he had a chance to check again he was chucked off the train. Claims he still has the valid ticket.

Every piece of evidence suggests this is nonsense, although he is a student, a lad I know knows him.

He never once says "hang on let me look for it", or anything else valid that would make me think he's telling the truth. He swears at the conductor, an old boy and takes the position of a spoiled we ned playing the hard man himself.

Whether or not the big lad was a bit on the zealous side is a bit of a moot point. The alternative would have been to have the train sit there until the police came to get rid, delaying everyone on that train and having a knock on effect to the whole rail system for all I know depending on how long they took to arrive or they could have just let him off.

I'm as liberal as you get when it comes to most things, but good on the big lad here. My only concern is that he dumped the wee scrote in my town.

[lapsedhibee]

He never once says "hang on let me look for it", or anything else valid that would make me think he's telling the truth. He swears at the conductor, an old boy and takes the position of a spoiled we ned playing the hard man himself.

:agree: Deserved to get launched for being a surly scrote, even if he did have the right ticket.

A heartwarming video.

[Sean1875]

Deserved to be thrown off for just wearing that hat :aok:

[greenlex]

A Student eh? What is he studying? Stupidity?

[speedy_gonzales]

This lad, Sam Main, was heading from Edinburgh Park to Polmont. He had no valid ticket on him or refused to show it. He refused to hand over ID so that a penalty fare notice could be handed over. He refused to leave the train.
The conductor knew he was getting off at Polmont so he called his bluff at the prior stop, Linlithgow. The guard refused to let the train move one inch unless a ticket was produced or the lad left the train. This went on for some time, eventually, someone brave/big/stupid enough took matters in their own hands.
Hopefully this does not end in an assault or breach of the peace charge for the 'big man' it is only right the general public do not have their life(time) dictated by selfish individuals.

SAM MAIN FACEBOOK PAG (http://www.facebook.com/sammain16?sk=wall)E, he doesn't seem that jaded by the celebrity he now enjoys!

[Jonnyboy]

This lad, Sam Main, was heading from Edinburgh Park to Polmont. He had no valid ticket on him or refused to show it. He refused to hand over ID so that a penalty fare notice could be handed over. He refused to leave the train.
The conductor knew he was getting off at Polmont so he called his bluff at the prior stop, Linlithgow. The guard refused to let the train move one inch unless a ticket was produced or the lad left the train. This went on for some time, eventually, someone brave/big/stupid enough took matters in their own hands.
Hopefully this does not end in an assault or breach of the peace charge for the 'big man' it is only right the general public do not have their life(time) dictated by selfish individuals.

SAM MAIN FACEBOOK PAG (http://www.facebook.com/sammain16?sk=wall)E, he doesn't seem that jaded by the celebrity he now enjoys!

Sellick fan :greengrin

[speedy_gonzales]

Sellick fan :greengrin
Noticed that, thought I'd let someone else raise it. Puts any sympathy for the dude beyond doubt yes/no?

[lapsedhibee]

Puts any sympathy for the dude beyond doubt yes/no?

I dunno, I'm warming to him now that I've read on his facebook page that he's a "phenomanom". That must be good, right?

[Sir David Gray]

The ned had been told to get off the train by the Conductor and had sworn at the Conductor. Irrespective of whether it was a ticketing error or not, he should have left the train as instructed and dealt with it at the station.

To be fair, if I knew that I was in the right and someone had told me to get off a train, I wouldn't have gone anywhere.

I absolutely hate being made out to be a liar or someone not believing me when I'm actually telling the truth.

I don't believe that is the case in this instance though.

[Mixu62]

Sellick fan :greengrin

So we can add ScotRail to the list of conspirators then. :wink:

[Hainan Hibs]

I thought he was a student by the stupid hat he was wearing. To have that confirmed puts the icing on the cake.

Well done Big Man.

[IWasThere2016]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16143909

The 'vigilante' could be in bother ffs!!! :grr:

[lapsedhibee]

The 'vigilante' could be in bother ffs!!! :grr:

Happy to contribute to his legal fund if it goes that far. Sure there'll be thousands of others similarly willing.

Surely, though, the student wouldn't be stupid enough to take it any further, would he? If so, how did he get the qualifications to get into uni?

[Beefster]

I see the ned's Dad wants the 'big man' charged. If I was him, I'd be concentrating on teaching my son how to interact civilly with other human beings rather than worrying about him being manhandled from a train that he wasn't entitled to be on in the first place.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Happy to contribute to his legal fund if it goes that far. Sure there'll be thousands of others similarly willing.

Surely, though, the student wouldn't be stupid enough to take it any further, would he? If so, how did he get the qualifications to get into uni?

All you need to get into university these days is a pulse .

[easty]

Happy to contribute to his legal fund if it goes that far. Sure there'll be thousands of others similarly willing.

Surely, though, the student wouldn't be stupid enough to take it any further, would he? If so, how did he get the qualifications to get into uni?

:faf:

[lapsedhibee]

All you need to get into university these days is a pulse.


:faf:

Oh right. So not even an O grade in Lentils for the Ned, necessarily? I'm a bit out of date. :doh:

[Betty Boop]

Surely the ticket collector could have radioed the transport police and had the guy removed at the next station ? Or the wee guy could have gave his name and address ?

[Sylar]

Surely the ticket collector could have radioed the transport police and had the guy removed at the next station ? Or the wee guy could have gave his name and address ?

Refused when asked, according to the linked article.

[Dinkydoo]

Fair enough IMO.

If the guy refuses to leave his name and address, doesn't even attempt to look for the ticket he supposedly has and proceeds to give the conductor and people around him a load of abuse, then he doesn't have any right to remain on the train.

He was removed, no assualt took place, job well done. :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely the ticket collector could have radioed the transport police and had the guy removed at the next station ? Or the wee guy could have gave his name and address ?

I believe he was only going to the next stop.:agree:

[speedy_gonzales]

The young lad was on Radio Scotland this morning just after 10, if it's on BBCi player it might be worth a listen.
He basically admitted he had no valid ticket, he did have money as he had to pay £20 for a taxi from Linlithgow to his home. He came across as a wee bit arrogant, my opinion of what I heard, almost as if he done nothing wrong and didn't deserve to be slam dunk'd on to the platform. He eventually conceded his language was perhaps wrong, BUT, he was agitated and the conductor embarassed him in front of a coach full of passengers(so that's alright then). He claims he was given no opportunity to pay, funny that as the conductor asks for a ticket "or buy one" and there are ticket machines on the platform at Edinburgh Park with signs saying a ticket must be bought before boarding.

[--------]

Sellick fan :greengrin


That was fairly obvious from the start, John. Undersized, foul-mouthed and reckons the world owes him a living. :greengrin

That looks like an SPT train, same as go through the Caldera between Bathgate and Airdrie. Similar things have happened on our line - usually of the scrote involved hangs it out till the station before his own the conductor's tempted to let it go and the scrote gets away with it. Everybody loses - the train's held up, a quiet journey home's made unpleasant, and Scotrail have to hike their fares to make up for the ones that don't get paid.

My only thoughts are first that it'd be a scandal if the big bloke gets charged - as far as I can see he asked the conductor if he needed help and the conductor told him yes, so in fact he was assisting the conductor and used no more than reasonable force to remove the wee scrote from the train.

And second, the guy who filmed it should have lost that film - the only person he's helping (apart from getting himself his five minutes of notoriety) is the scrote. Either that or he should have recorded the five minutes of abuse the conductor and everyone else were subjected to by the scrote.

[steakbake]

Yeah, sounds like he's just a slippery wee character who thought he'd kick off.

The conductor though, could do with going on some kind of conflict management course. Things escalated there.

The guy who marched him off the train - was a bit OTT. Would be a bit ludicrous to see him get charged but surely the whole incident could have been handled better. I'd have called ahead to get the boy lifted when they got to Polmont.

[speedy_gonzales]

And second, the guy who filmed it should have lost that film - the only person he's helping (apart from getting himself his five minutes of notoriety) is the scrote. Either that or he should have recorded the five minutes of abuse the conductor and everyone else were subjected to by the scrote.
There are cameras on the train itself, facing down the aisles and in the foyer area of the doors. There will also be LOTS of cameras at Linlithgow station that will have caught the eviction. Due to some recent anti-terrorism laws, every inch of railway platform/concourse has to have video surveillance from more than 1 angle
!:eek:

[lapsedhibee]

the conductor embarassed him in front of a coach full of passengers

Daddy Ned will be frantically checking whether that's a violation of Sonny Ned's human rights.

[--------]

There are cameras on the train itself, facing down the aisles and in the foyer area of the doors. There will also be LOTS of cameras at Linlithgow station that will have caught the eviction. Due to some recent anti-terrorism laws, every inch of railway platform/concourse has to have video surveillance from more than 1 angle
!:eek:


Of course there are. What was I thinking? :rolleyes:

Surveillance society, I guess.

Surely all wee Sammy has to do is to produce the ticket he claims he had all along. If he can't - charge him with fraud. And since there were plaenty of witnesses, charge him with breach of the peace - for subjecting the conductor and his fellow passengers to 5 minutes of foul language while the train was stopped.

As for the idea of blaming the conductor for handling the situation badly - there are some people and some situations which simply can't be handled right.

Except, of course, in the way the big guy handled Sammy the Scrote.

[Gatecrasher]

This is why we bawbags like him act the way they do, he has the brass neck to hold up everyone elses journey, swears at the conductor and when someone does what should be done he could end up in court for "Assault" Meanwhile he wont have anything done despite trying to fair dodge . Bawbags father doesn't help by sticking up for him rather than saying his son should behave in future he sticks up for him.

I feel sorry for the conductor though, he was just trying to do his job before it all kicked off. He should have phone the Police on him

[Sodje_18]

It's wee scrotes like him that give youths of today a bad name

[Barney McGrew]

A formal complaint has now been made and British Transport Police are investigating.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The sad thing is the guy will probably end up getting charged with assault. Good on him though, theres too many feral wee radges going about these days. As I was saying!

[RyeSloan]

A formal complaint has now been made and British Transport Police are investigating.

Who's made the complaint about what? Passengers having to listen to that wee git's foul and abusive language?

[GlesgaeHibby]

What a total wee fanny. He's tried to dodge buying a ticket for the return journey, been busted clean and instead of just paying up he decides to start swearing at a guy just trying to do his job and holding up a train full of passengers (incl children) while he goes on a foul mouthed tirade.

The big guy just used reasonable force to get him off the train, and he wouldn't have that scrape on his face if he hadn't tried to get back on the train.

On buying tickets, Scotrail seem to have got a bit better at making sure passengers have tickets, with ticket gates etc. I remember the Edinburgh-North Berwick line was a nightmare for tickets. I got on that train to Prestonpans countless times where no conductor was to be seen before getting off the train. Now they put more conductors on and have conductors/checks before the train to give you the chance to get a ticket before boarding.

[Barney McGrew]

Who's made the complaint about what? Passengers having to listen to that wee git's foul and abusive language?

It doesn't say but it looks like the wee faredodging fud has had a change of mind and has gone from 'haw haw haw look at me' on facebook to the badly wronged innocent party within 24 hours :rolleyes:

[--------]

Who's made the complaint about what? Passengers having to listen to that wee git's foul and abusive language?


The passenger who went to help the conductor is liable to be charged.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think his old man will probably have influenced the decision to investigate further/bring charges against the big guy.

[Westie1875]

I think his old man will probably have influenced the decision to investigate further/bring charges against the big guy.

I used to know the guy that chucked him off the train, a quiet guy (family man) and not the type to get into bother at all. The student must have been ranting away for a while for him to get involved IMO.

[--------]

I used to know the guy that chucked him off the train, a quiet guy (family man) and not the type to get into bother at all. The student must have been ranting away for a while for him to get involved IMO.


At least five minutes.

He now says he's diabetic, he hadn't eaten all day, but he had been drinking.

But he wasn't drunk...

Daddy Scrote needs to sit down with Baby Scrote and have a long serious talk - about what happens to diabetics who don't look after their blood-sugar levels.

And about what could happen to a lippy student who starts giving someone dog's abuse somewhere other than a train. IMO he got off lightly.

[BEEJ]

The problem with the style of news coverage these days is that the media feel obliged to give idiots like this their 90 seconds of fame by asking them to give their 'alternative' version of events.

Cue whining self-justification, talk of his rights and hints that he wasn't actually feeling very well on the day. Big deal.

It seems that the days are long gone when the typical reaction from an incident like this was for the perpetrator to feel ashamed and to lay low for a while. Instead nowadays they can rely on a close relative to wade in with encouragement that they take legal action, while all the while society tries its utmost to make them into something of a celebrity.

[--------]

The problem with the style of news coverage these days is that the media feel obliged to give idiots like this their 90 seconds of fame by asking them to give their 'alternative' version of events.

Cue whining self-justification, talk of his rights and hints that he wasn't actually feeling very well on the day. Big deal.

It seems that the days are long gone when the typical reaction from an incident like this was for the perpetrator to feel ashamed and to lay low for a while. Instead nowadays they can rely on a close relative to wade in with encouragement that they take legal action, while all the while society tries its utmost to make them into something of a celebrity.


What IS worrying is that the wee eedjit could very well have been on the verge of a hypo - the way he tells it (always assuming he's telling the truth, which is a big assumption) his blood sugar must have been all to pot and he could have been left out on a station platform somewhere on the way to a diabetic coma.

But neither the conductor nor the other passenger were to know that.

On the other habd, the 'diabetes' thing could simply be the foundation for the court case - everyone's in the wrong but wee Sammy.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Seemingly his bag with all his gear in it was chucked off the train with him.

[--------]

I dunno, I'm warming to him now that I've read on his facebook page that he's a "phenomanom". That must be good, right?



What's a phenomanom?

A dyslexic phenomenon?

[Kato]

Link?

Aye sorry for getting back well after that post.

Was in last nights news iirc.

After seeing the "story" on the telly the celtc guy is just an attempted smartarse. Brutal if teh guy gets charged.

[lapsedhibee]

After seeing the "story" on the telly the celtc guy is just an attempted smartarse. Brutal if teh guy gets charged.

Is there no word yet about the scrote getting charged? :I'm waiti

[Hibbyradge]

To be fair, if I knew that I was in the right and someone had told me to get off a train, I wouldn't have gone anywhere.

I absolutely hate being made out to be a liar or someone not believing me when I'm actually telling the truth.



Even if you couldn't produce your ticket?

See if you went to a football game or a gig, and you couldn't find your ticket, would you expect entry because you knew you were in the right?

How are conductors supposed to differentiate between scrotes who are trying to steal their fare from folk who genuinely have lost their tickets?

The boy was being an erse. He should have accepted that he'd either been caught out or that he'd had a (very minor) piece of misfortune and paid for another ticket.

Whether he should have been assaulted by the other passenger or not, is the moot point.

[Sir David Gray]

Even if you couldn't produce your ticket?

See if you went to a football game or a gig, and you couldn't find your ticket, would you expect entry because you knew you were in the right?

How are conductors supposed to differentiate between scrotes who are trying to steal their fare from folk who genuinely have lost their tickets?

The boy was being an erse. He should have accepted that he'd either been caught out or that he'd had a (very minor) piece of misfortune and paid for another ticket.

Whether he should have been assaulted by the other passenger or not, is the moot point.

You did miss out the last bit of my post which was that I don't think that was the case in this incident.

I was talking more about cases where my truthfulness could be proven by looking up records or other similar methods but before it gets to that stage, I am assumed to be 'at it'.

Obviously if I went to a football match or concert and didn't bring my ticket with me, I wouldn't expect to be allowed in.

[frazeHFC]

Didn't realise it was at Linlithgow. :hilarious

[robinp]

Seemingly his bag with all his gear in it was chucked off the train with him.

It was, just after the scrote is taken to the door, a fellow passenger crosses the camera and is seen launching it onto the platform. Thereafter he starts trying to re-enter the train....according to his father the reason he was trying to get back on board british bull dog style was to retrieve said bag.....doesnt add up.

Either way if he was diabetic he did have his bag on the platform so yet more lies from the ned/father/uncle!

[magpie1892]

It was, just after the scrote is taken to the door, a fellow passenger crosses the camera and is seen launching it onto the platform. Thereafter he starts trying to re-enter the train....according to his father the reason he was trying to get back on board british bull dog style was to retrieve said bag.....doesnt add up.

Either way if he was diabetic he did have his bag on the platform so yet more lies from the ned/father/uncle!

So where's the 'valid' ticket? And even if he 'hasn't got it any more' then if he really was sold two singles this is easy checkable.

He didn't make a convincing case on the news tonight at all. He's been utterly humiliated and, rather than learning anything from the incident, is trying to portray himself as the victim. This is ludicrous, but it might well work in this day and age.

[jonty]

So much for David Cameron's Big Society.


Oh wait, there's no Tories in Scotland. :greengrin

The student is at it, complete non story. His story has more holes than a holy thing.

How many students don't carry ID? He couldn't get his bag which was left on the train, containing his phone, wallet and books, yet had 20 for a taxi? He admitted he'd bought his train tickets with his scotrail student card - why wasn't that produced?

[Lucius Apuleius]

He was going to Polmont? Does that not tell you everything you need to know? :agree::greengrin

[Killiehibbie]

The young lad was on Radio Scotland this morning just after 10, if it's on BBCi player it might be worth a listen.
He basically admitted he had no valid ticket, he did have money as he had to pay £20 for a taxi from Linlithgow to his home. He came across as a wee bit arrogant, my opinion of what I heard, almost as if he done nothing wrong and didn't deserve to be slam dunk'd on to the platform. He eventually conceded his language was perhaps wrong, BUT, he was agitated and the conductor embarassed him in front of a coach full of passengers(so that's alright then). He claims he was given no opportunity to pay, funny that as the conductor asks for a ticket "or buy one" and there are ticket machines on the platform at Edinburgh Park with signs saying a ticket must be bought before boarding.He must be exaggerating about the price of a taxi. How far is it about 5 miles?

[Twa Cairpets]

Didn't realise it was at Linlithgow. :hilarious

Yes and we dont appreciate that sort here.

[SouthEnglandHib]

Personally, im glad im booking my train tickets to come up,
I aint getting chucked off no train!:greengrin

[Wilson]

Yes and we dont appreciate that sort here.

Got enough already? :na na:

[frazeHFC]

Yes and we dont appreciate that sort here.Got enough as it is. :cool2: I remember a certain match for a Linlithgow team on a Thursday night. :paranoid:

[Twa Cairpets]

Got enough already? :na na:


Got enough as it is. I remember a certain match for a Linlithgow team on a Thursday night.

I think you're mixing us up with Bo'Ness :wink:

[Beefster]

Whether he should have been assaulted by the other passenger or not, is the moot point.

I think this is half the problem. For police to be considering/folk to be calling that 'assault' is crazy IMHO. The ned was ejected from a train, with the conductor's consent, for not having a valid ticket. Anything that could be remotely considered assault only happened because the ned resisted his ejection.

Not having a go at you but I've heard what happened being called an assault by a fair number of folk. A punch in the coupon or a boot in the nads is assault, being ejected from somewhere that you are not entitled to be isn't IMHO.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think this is half the problem. For police to be considering/folk to be calling that 'assault' is crazy IMHO. The ned was ejected from a train, with the conductor's consent, for not having a valid ticket. Anything that could be remotely considered assault only happened because the ned resisted his ejection.

Not having a go at you but I've heard what happened being called an assault by a fair number of folk. A punch in the coupon or a boot in the nads is assault, being ejected from somewhere that you are not entitled to be isn't IMHO.

I don't know, I think anything that involves laying hands on another can be construed as assault, if you do not have the authority to do it. Anyway, I'll happily pay into the blokes legal fund. You would hope a sherrif would see sense in this case, and take into account the ned's behaviour leading up to it.

[frazeHFC]

I think you're mixing us up with Bo'Ness :wink: No i played for the Linlithgow side. It was against Armadale, but yeah the Bo'Ness derbies were fiesty! :greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Maybe once the headline hungry Paul McBride has finished representing the yams without a fee he could offer his services to the big man on a pro bono basis. It would certainly keep his coupon in the tabloids!

[Eyrie]

McBride is more likely to offer to help his fellow Celtic supporter.

I just hope that after a thorough investigation (watching the footage will be sufficient) BTP say that the only crime to be investigated is fare dodging.

[Sir David Gray]

I think this is half the problem. For police to be considering/folk to be calling that 'assault' is crazy IMHO. The ned was ejected from a train, with the conductor's consent, for not having a valid ticket. Anything that could be remotely considered assault only happened because the ned resisted his ejection.

Not having a go at you but I've heard what happened being called an assault by a fair number of folk. A punch in the coupon or a boot in the nads is assault, being ejected from somewhere that you are not entitled to be isn't IMHO.

Technically, the young guy was assaulted.

However, I think people should apply a bit of common sense to individual cases and look at the details. If that's done in this case then I don't think an assault charge is appropriate.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm in two minds about this one.

The 'fare dodger' does seem like a bit of a knob and his attitude and language was out of order. On the other hand i volunteered with a charity that helped and gave advice to young and first time offenders, the most common excuse for assault charges was always along the lines of: 'he was being wide', 'he was looking at me funny', 'he started it'. Frankly i'm not sure someone being cheeky to a conductor on a train is acceptable permission to manhandle somone, and whether we like it or not throwing someone with force from a train to the ground IS assault. I also wonder whether the heroic 'big man' would have been quite so keen to get involved if the fare dodger had been another big man and not a scrawny wee barsteward.

If someone breaks into your home and you feel endangered or if someone acts aggresively towards you then i believe you have a right to defend yourself/your property. I'm not sure that applies in this case. Theere is a procedure in place to deal with fare dodgers, the guy wasn't being particularly aggressive just surly so i'm not sure you can say the big man was protecting the conductor from physical harm. The standard procedure i believe is to radio ahead for British transport Police to be waiting at the next top to remove the fare dodger, the conductor in the video appeared to have no intention of following the procedure. He has no place agreeing to a member of the public removing the fare dodger, what if the guy had had a knife? Even if the guy beats the Police to the next stop and gets off there is CCTV on trains watching for various crimes including fraudulent behaviour so he may well have been caught regardless.

I understand why people enjoy watching a cheeky wee dick get what they think was coming to him but the 'big man' or the conductor for me are hardly the heroes folk seem keen to make them out to be.

[lapsedhibee]

I understand why people enjoy watching a cheeky wee dick get what they think was coming to him but the 'big man' or the conductor for me are hardly the heroes folk seem keen to make them out to be.

I dunno how many people altogether were on the train, but the scrote is reported to have been arguing with the conductor for "five or ten minutes" before the video recording begins. Let's guess 200 people on the train, all held up for 10 minutes because of the scrote. That's 2000 minutes or 33 personhours.

A sore face for wasting 33 personhours is not in any way unjust, irrespective of whether the scrote was or was not, technically, assaulted.

[Beefster]

I'm in two minds about this one.

The 'fare dodger' does seem like a bit of a knob and his attitude and language was out of order. On the other hand i volunteered with a charity that helped and gave advice to young and first time offenders, the most common excuse for assault charges was always along the lines of: 'he was being wide', 'he was looking at me funny', 'he started it'. Frankly i'm not sure someone being cheeky to a conductor on a train is acceptable permission to manhandle somone, and whether we like it or not throwing someone with force from a train to the ground IS assault. I also wonder whether the heroic 'big man' would have been quite so keen to get involved if the fare dodger had been another big man and not a scrawny wee barsteward.

If someone breaks into your home and you feel endangered or if someone acts aggresively towards you then i believe you have a right to defend yourself/your property. I'm not sure that applies in this case. Theere is a procedure in place to deal with fare dodgers, the guy wasn't being particularly aggressive just surly so i'm not sure you can say the big man was protecting the conductor from physical harm. The standard procedure i believe is to radio ahead for British transport Police to be waiting at the next top to remove the fare dodger, the conductor in the video appeared to have no intention of following the procedure. He has no place agreeing to a member of the public removing the fare dodger, what if the guy had had a knife? Even if the guy beats the Police to the next stop and gets off there is CCTV on trains watching for various crimes including fraudulent behaviour so he may well have been caught regardless.

I understand why people enjoy watching a cheeky wee dick get what they think was coming to him but the 'big man' or the conductor for me are hardly the heroes folk seem keen to make them out to be.

The ned wasn't being 'cheeky'. He was using abusive language, making an entire train suffer and also committing an offense by being on a train without a valid ticket alongside refusing to pay for one.

If I spoke to a policeman the way he spoke to that conductor, I'd be done for some public order offence.

[iwasthere1972]

I saw it on Youtube a couple of nights ago and it was on some prog last night that Frank Skinner was hosting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfuCmYdnbpU

[Hibs Class]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/big-fat-scottish-guy-to-sort-out-troubled-families-201112154678/

[BroxburnHibee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16229921

[s.a.m]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/big-fat-scottish-guy-to-sort-out-troubled-families-201112154678/

:greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

the 'big man' has been charged with assault, the fare-dodger reported to the procurator fiscal

[The_Exile]

Yup, mental.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101

[Beefster]

Unbelievable. That'll encourage folk just to mind their own business and let whatever is happening happen in future.

[lapsedhibee]

'mon the alleged scrote-ejector. :flag:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Meanwhile the student accused of fare dodging, 19-year-old Sam Main from Falkirk, has also been reported to the procurator fiscal, which decides whether to prosecute alleged crimes in Scotland.
He has been reported under Section 38 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing Act Scotland, and in connection with an allegation of trespass.


whats the trespass bit all about ? :confused:

[Saorsa]

Unbelievable. That'll encourage folk just to mind their own business and let whatever is happening happen in future.:agree:

[Barney McGrew]

:agree:I'm guessing either the wee toss pot or someone close to him has made the complaint that's led to the charge so if there's any justice that's what's led to him being reported to the PF.If they'd kept their gob shut it would probably just have blown over.

[Saorsa]

Meanwhile the student accused of fare dodging, 19-year-old Sam Main from Falkirk, has also been reported to the procurator fiscal, which decides whether to prosecute alleged crimes in Scotland.
He has been reported under Section 38 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing Act Scotland, and in connection with an allegation of trespass.


whats the trespass bit all about ? :confused:I can only assume it's something tae do with no having a ticket :dunno: If he disnae have or winnae pay for a ticket then it could be he's there without the permission of the train company therefore trespassing :dunno:







That's just a guess, could be a loady pish :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

I can only assume it's something tae do with no having a ticket :dunno: If he disnae have or winnae pay for a ticket then it could be he's there without the permission of the train company therefore trespassing :dunno:







That's just a guess, could be a loady pish :greengrin



that would maybe come under 'theft' :hmmm:

[Saorsa]

that would maybe come under 'theft' :hmmm:Maybe, because he stole a ride :greengrin but he could still be trespassing if he's there without a ticket that says he's allowed tae be there. I dinnae care what law is used so long as the little ned gets done with something.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Maybe, because he stole a ride :greengrin but he could still be trespassing if he's there without a ticket that says he's allowed tae be there. I dinnae care what law is used so long as the little ned gets done with something.that's what it basically is :agree: i remember being approx an hour late for my work(25+ years ago), the manager had came in early and noticed i had been clocked in at the normal start time(by one of my co-workers), when i got in he said if i did that again he would not only sack me but have me charged with theft, basically stealing an hours pay :boo hoo: i wisny late again :greengrin







not for a few months anyway :whistle:

[magpie1892]

I can only assume it's something tae do with no having a ticket :dunno: If he disnae have or winnae pay for a ticket then it could be he's there without the permission of the train company therefore trespassing :dunno:

That's just a guess, could be a loady pish :greengrin

You're right. The trespass comes from being on the train without a ticket.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Now that the big man has been charged I hope the wee scrote now gets charged with trespass, breach of the peace etc etc.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm in two minds about this one.

The 'fare dodger' does seem like a bit of a knob and his attitude and language was out of order. On the other hand i volunteered with a charity that helped and gave advice to young and first time offenders, the most common excuse for assault charges was always along the lines of: 'he was being wide', 'he was looking at me funny', 'he started it'. Frankly i'm not sure someone being cheeky to a conductor on a train is acceptable permission to manhandle somone, and whether we like it or not throwing someone with force from a train to the ground IS assault. I also wonder whether the heroic 'big man' would have been quite so keen to get involved if the fare dodger had been another big man and not a scrawny wee barsteward.

If someone breaks into your home and you feel endangered or if someone acts aggresively towards you then i believe you have a right to defend yourself/your property. I'm not sure that applies in this case. Theere is a procedure in place to deal with fare dodgers, the guy wasn't being particularly aggressive just surly so i'm not sure you can say the big man was protecting the conductor from physical harm. The standard procedure i believe is to radio ahead for British transport Police to be waiting at the next top to remove the fare dodger, the conductor in the video appeared to have no intention of following the procedure. He has no place agreeing to a member of the public removing the fare dodger, what if the guy had had a knife? Even if the guy beats the Police to the next stop and gets off there is CCTV on trains watching for various crimes including fraudulent behaviour so he may well have been caught regardless.

I understand why people enjoy watching a cheeky wee dick get what they think was coming to him but the 'big man' or the conductor for me are hardly the heroes folk seem keen to make them out to be.

I agree with this bit and you are right, that is the procedure for anyone who is causing a problem on a train.

I totally agree that the conductor was totally wrong in the way he went about dealing with this incident. From viewing that video, it would seem that he gave the impression to all the passengers that the train would not be moving another inch until the young guy was off the train.

He said something along the lines of;

"I've got all night, I'm getting paid for this. It's them that'll start moaning."

Saying something like that was unwise, not just because it goes against standard procedure, but because it obviously got the other passengers a bit upset. If he hadn't said that, would Allan Pollock even have got involved? It was only after the conductor mentioned the bit above that he intervened to throw Sam Main off the train.

He was also very wrong to give his consent to this intervention taking place.

[heretoday]

The thing is we all applaud the guy for manhandling the yobbo out of the train but at the end of the day he should have merely remonstrated with him verbally.

Most people pay their fares. It's no big deal.

[Pete]

I agree with this bit and you are right, that is the procedure for anyone who is causing a problem on a train.

I totally agree that the conductor was totally wrong in the way he went about dealing with this incident. From viewing that video, it would seem that he gave the impression to all the passengers that the train would not be moving another inch until the young guy was off the train.

He said something along the lines of;

"I've got all night, I'm getting paid for this. It's them that'll start moaning."

Saying something like that was unwise, not just because it goes against standard procedure, but because it obviously got the other passengers a bit upset. If he hadn't said that, would Allan Pollock even have got involved? It was only after the conductor mentioned the bit above that he intervened to throw Sam Main off the train.

He was also very wrong to give his consent to this intervention taking place.

The conductor is definitely from the "old school" in every sense. This sort of thing has probably happened loads of times over the years and been dealt with in a similar manner. This is the trial by youtube age now and the conductor isn't used to things being filmed.


As far as I'm concerned nobody done that much wrong. The conductor had something to deal with and he dealt with it cleverly. The guy got rightly chucked off the train and was given a lesson. The big guy just wanted to help the conductor, get home and got frustrated.

If nobody had filmed anything the incident would have been forgotten by every party the next day.

[Phil D. Rolls]

If I was the big man's lawyer, I'd be playing on the fact that the video has prejudiced his chances of a fair trial.

As for the wee scrote, I hope his name is plastered on bill boards over Scotland, and that he is black listed by every employer in the country. Getting chucked off the train is one thing, but not taking it like a man is something else all together. Petted little brat.

[BEEJ]

The thing is we all applaud the guy for manhandling the yobbo out of the train but at the end of the day he should have merely remonstrated with him verbally.

Most people pay their fares. It's no big deal.
If the wee nyaff is somehow vindicated through this process, maybe fewer will in future.

[Hibrandenburg]

If I was the big man's lawyer, I'd be playing on the fact that the video has prejudiced his chances of a fair trial.

As for the wee scrote, I hope his name is plastered on bill boards over Scotland, and that he is black listed by every employer in the country. Getting chucked off the train is one thing, but not taking it like a man is something else all together. Petted little brat.

Pretty much sums up my feelings here. Add to that that the whole saga will deter people from "getting involved" when that's exactly what our society needs. Another small victory for the bad guys.

[CropleyWasGod]

Going to do my Devil's Advocate bit here.

Supposing the guy had cracked his skull on the platform when he was thrown off, and had ended up in a coma, or died. Would "the big man" have been such a cult hero then?

[Dinkydoo]

1 - 0 to the fare dodging Ned. :rolleyes:

The 'fare dodging' bit doesn't really bother me at all, it's just that - like other posters - I can't stand someone who is in the wrong initially who, by crying to someone in authority, manages to turn the situation around resulting in the good (or 'not so bad') guy getting punished.

This reminds me of the high school bully who runs to the teachers crying when someone they've tormented for years on end finally plucks up the courage to lamp them one. Little ****.....

[Twa Cairpets]

Going to do my Devil's Advocate bit here.

Supposing the guy had cracked his skull on the platform when he was thrown off, and had ended up in a coma, or died. Would "the big man" have been such a cult hero then?

Thats a good point.

If everything else he did was the same until scrote was ejected then the action would have been justifiable, I think, but the outcome disproprtionate to the "offence" committed. Big Man would have had a manslaughter charge probably? Interesting moral conundrum...

[lapsedhibee]

This reminds me of the high school bully who runs to the teachers crying when someone they've tormented for years on end finally plucks up the courage to lamp them one. Little ****.....

And fitba fans who hurl abuse at a player for 90 mins and then greet to the polis when the player mutters f off under his breath at the end of the game.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Pretty much sums up my feelings here. Add to that that the whole saga will deter people from "getting involved" when that's exactly what our society needs. Another small victory for the bad guys.

I see where you are coming from, but the fact is that the bloke used reasonable force. There has to be a middle ground between allowing psychotic vigilantes to duff up anyone who crosses the line, and total surrender to little toerags like this one.

The scrote has rights, but so does society.

How much is a subscription to The Daily Mail these days?


And fitba fans who hurl abuse at a player for 90 mins and then greet to the polis when the player mutters f off under his breath at the end of the game.

As witnessed on this site frequently. :agree:

[Dinkydoo]

And fitba fans who hurl abuse at a player for 90 mins and then greet to the polis when the player mutters f off under his breath at the end of the game.

:agree:

[Beefster]

Going to do my Devil's Advocate bit here.

Supposing the guy had cracked his skull on the platform when he was thrown off, and had ended up in a coma, or died. Would "the big man" have been such a cult hero then?

If the ned hadn't resisted his ejection, there would have been no need to 'throw' him from the train. The force used seems to have been that required to get him off.

[matty_f]

I see where you are coming from, but the fact is that the bloke used reasonable force. There has to be a middle ground between allowing psychotic vigilantes to duff up anyone who crosses the line, and total surrender to little toerags like this one.

The scrote has rights, but so does society.

How much is a subscription to The Daily Mail these days?



As witnessed on this site frequently. :agree:


I'm maybe a bit harsh with my view on this, but I totally agree with your point here. IMHO, when people choose to alienate themselves from society - in this case taking a position that unlike everyone else, he could make a train journey without paying for it, then they kind of deserve what's coming to them.

There was a story in the paper the other day about a young lad who was given a custodial sentence for dodging jury duty. He said he'd been ill but went to a musical in the evening. Therefore the judge handed him 14 days in detention (IIRC). His mum said "I used to have faith in the justice system." and was critical of the judge. She completely failed to acknowledge that the justice system would fall apart if folk didn't do jury duty!

Easy lesson for the young lad on the train - pay your way like everyone else, and nobody will chuck you off the train.:greengrin

[greenlex]

Members of tbe public getting involved with fk breaking the law?
I seem to remember someone doing this a couple of years ago.
He was hailed a Hero wasnt charged with anything and was given medals and stuff. He appeared on chat shows in America FFS.
His name? John Smeaton. National Hero.
Whats the difference in the eyes of the law?

[Killiehibbie]

Members of tbe public getting involved with fk breaking the law?
I seem to remember someone doing this a couple of years ago.
He was hailed a Hero wasnt charged with anything and was given medals and stuff. He appeared on chat shows in America FFS.
His name? John Smeaton. National Hero.
Whats the difference in the eyes of the law?
The difference is Smeaton was protecting innocent people from serious injury by preventing a terrorist attack, even if they weren't very competent terrorists, the wee clown on the train was just a pest and a danger to nobody.

[greenlex]

The difference is Smeaton was protecting innocent people from serious injury by preventing a terrorist attack, even if they weren't very competent terrorists, the wee clown on the train was just a pest and a danger to nobody.

I would argue that he didn't know that at he time.

[steakbake]

Members of tbe public getting involved with fk breaking the law?
I seem to remember someone doing this a couple of years ago.
He was hailed a Hero wasnt charged with anything and was given medals and stuff. He appeared on chat shows in America FFS.
His name? John Smeaton. National Hero.
Whats the difference in the eyes of the law?

John Smeaton had PR professionals helping him?

[Holmesdale Hibs]

The wee ned got what he deserved IMO. Interesting point about 'what if he had fractured his skull' but the way I see it is that if you act like a pleb then you have no defense when people treat you like one. Good on the big man, hopefully other wee scrotes might think twice about misbehaving in public, or at least they might have done if it wasn't for our crazy legal system punishing a someone standing up for the public.

I thought the video was really funny until I found out the big man was getting in trouble. Its one of those things your hear about and just shake your head in disbelief.

[blackpoolhibs]

The wee ned got what he deserved IMO. Interesting point about 'what if he had fractured his skull' but the way I see it is that if you act like a pleb then you have no defense when people treat you like one. Good on the big man, hopefully other wee scrotes might think twice about misbehaving in public, or at least they might have done if it wasn't for our crazy legal system punishing a someone standing up for the public.

I thought the video was really funny until I found out the big man was getting in trouble. Its one of those things your hear about and just shake your head in disbelief.

:agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

The wee ned got what he deserved IMO. Interesting point about 'what if he had fractured his skull' but the way I see it is that if you act like a pleb then you have no defense when people treat you like one. Good on the big man, hopefully other wee scrotes might think twice about misbehaving in public, or at least they might have done if it wasn't for our crazy legal system punishing a someone standing up for the public.

I thought the video was really funny until I found out the big man was getting in trouble. Its one of those things your hear about and just shake your head in disbelief.

We need to draw the line between that place where people think they can beat the humuus out of someone, because they are acting in a way that "isn't right" and the situation where people act to stop behaviour that the most right thinking people would disagree with.

The "Big Man" acted according to the feelings of most on the train, he didn't beat halooley out of the kid, he just said "oot". Our legal system needs to protect us from bad people, but it should never go against people getting on with their lives. Eg. getting a train home and not being delayed by a silly wee boy.

[lapsedhibee]

We need to draw the line between that place where people think they can beat the humuus out of someone, because they are acting in a way that "isn't right" and the situation where people act to stop behaviour that the most right thinking people would disagree with.

The "Big Man" acted according to the feelings of most on the train, he didn't beat halooley out of the kid, he just said "oot". Our legal system needs to protect us from bad people, but it should never go against people getting on with their lives. Eg. getting a train home and not being delayed by a silly wee boy.

:agree: I'm hoping that for the money we paid for it, the new tram has conductor-controlled ejector seats to circumvent any legal problems that Big Man involvement could cause.

[--------]

Members of tbe public getting involved with fk breaking the law?
I seem to remember someone doing this a couple of years ago.
He was hailed a Hero wasnt charged with anything and was given medals and stuff. He appeared on chat shows in America FFS.
His name? John Smeaton. National Hero.
Whats the difference in the eyes of the law?


John Smeaton had PR professionals helping him?


Smeaton put the boot into a man who was already burning to death - OK, he was a terrorist, and guilty, but it could be argued that with 90% burns over his body he was no thereat to anyone by the time Smeaton (and others) got to him to stick the boot in.

Smeaton then went on every TV channel imaginable and gave interviews to every gutter-press red-top scandal-rag he could find boasting about what he had done.

IIRC Smeaton got the Queen's Gallantry Medal. Probably because when 'Arab terrorists' are involved anything and everything's allowed - we gotta defeat the rag-heads. It's all about the War on Terror.

In the case of the Big Guy and the Scrote the BG used reasonable force to remove the Scrote from the train so that everyone else (the folks who HAD valid tickets) could continue their journey without having to listen to the Scrote's foul language.

The ONE question I have about the incident on the train is whether the Scrote was in fact diabetic and out-of-balance regarding his blood-sugar, in which case he really might not have been in control of himself. On the other hand, knowing he's diabetic means he has a responsibility not to stay up all night, eating very little, and drinking beer, so that if he were on the brink of a hypo, it was a self-induced hypo and his own silly fault...

[Hibrandenburg]

Pollock will not be prosecuted, Ned neither.

[lucky]

Correct decision. The wee Ned will think twice before acting like that again, but the big man will also not intervene again which is a shame considering he was trying to help

[Phil D. Rolls]

Correct decision. The wee Ned will think twice before acting like that again, but the big man will also not intervene again which is a shame considering he was trying to help

Not just the big man though, many more people will act the same way and ignore bad behaviour.

Regardless of whether it is legal or not, the perception that you aren't allowed to get involved will grow legs.