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hughio
12-12-2011, 12:32 PM
JC said on ESPN that Stacky should have come for the corner.If he had we would not have lost the second goal.
Anything in the 6 yard box has to be claimed or punched at least.

I think thats right.

I am not looking for scapegoats but am surprised I cannot see any comment on this on here..:confused:

SMAXXA
12-12-2011, 12:36 PM
imo hes hopeless coming for crosses well actually he never seemes to want to come out and at all

Golden Bear
12-12-2011, 12:40 PM
It's been debated on a few threads already.

IMO Mark Brown is a better all round keeper in any case and he is well overdue a regular place. And for what its worth the stuff about his distribution being poor is an urban myth.

scuttle
12-12-2011, 12:45 PM
I wouldnt blame Stack,there is only one man to blame for both goals and thats Hart. Lost Jelavic at the corner and gave him a free header

Albion Hibs
12-12-2011, 12:49 PM
As has been said above, this is a pretty well debated point. I have lost count of how many goals we have lost this season from failing to properly defend a cross from the left into the 6 yard box towards the back post that a keeper could have and should have claimed. Dont get me wrong there have been a few instances from the right at well.

I dont think he could have come for the ball for the 2nd on Sat unless he was given a shout that the defender has lost his man, but I have not seen a reply of the goal. I guess the flip side of it is that Maka used to come for everything and would try and catch instead of punching which led the inevitable spill in to opposition players feet!

I would have given brown a go a few weeks ago now. I thought he did really, really well against Motherwell in the cup and his main area of weakness (his kicking) seemed to be much improved.

Danderhall Hibs
12-12-2011, 12:53 PM
JC said on ESPN that Stacky should have come for the corner.If he had we would not have lost the second goal.
Anything in the 6 yard box has to be claimed or punched at least.

I think thats right.

I am not looking for scapegoats but am surprised I cannot see any comment on this on here..:confused:

I don't think the ball was in the 6 yard box until it landed at the unmarked SPL top scorer?

lyonhibs
12-12-2011, 01:02 PM
Anyone who thinks that - at that pace and trajectory - that cross was Stack's responsibility knows next to nothing about being a goalie.

IMO :greengrin

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 01:15 PM
Made this point on the pm board. In my opinion stack does no different to any other spl keeper in these situations the issue is our defence don't do their jobs, losing men ,leaving them with no pressure to head the ball. I have no idea who we think travels to the back post 6 yards out to catch a ball

GreenPJ
12-12-2011, 01:37 PM
The ball was never outside the 6 yard box, Stack should have been out to claim or punch, in addition Jelavic is fairly decent in the air, why was he not marked by a Centre Half or Ozzy rather than a full back who must be at least 3 inches shorter than him.

Geo_1875
12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
The problem is no defenders attacking the ball. It's all very well marking forwards but you need to get to the ball before them. Not one Hibs player looked for the ball coming in from the corner.

IWasThere2016
12-12-2011, 01:46 PM
The problem is no defenders attacking the ball. It's all very well marking forwards but you need to get to the ball before them. Not one Hibs player looked for the ball coming in from the corner.

:agree: Hart's got his back to the thing! :grr:

I like Stack .. but he is glued to his line too often IMO.

ALF TUPPER
12-12-2011, 01:51 PM
:agree: Agree with JC. 6 yard box is the goalkeepers area. Thought at the the time Stack was a bit static.

Should have defended far better.

Cropley10
12-12-2011, 01:52 PM
F m

Thecat23
12-12-2011, 01:53 PM
Anyone who thinks that - at that pace and trajectory - that cross was Stack's responsibility knows next to nothing about being a goalie.

IMO :greengrin

I must know nothing about being a keeper then, which is worrying as i am!! :greengrin

Stack should and could have come for it.

Danderhall Hibs
12-12-2011, 01:55 PM
The ball was never outside the 6 yard box, Stack should have been out to claim or punch, in addition Jelavic is fairly decent in the air, why was he not marked by a Centre Half or Ozzy rather than a full back who must be at least 3 inches shorter than him.

It only made it into the 6 yard box when it landed Ė at all other times it was outside. Iím not sure when Stack couldíve come and claimed it to be honest.

pentlando
12-12-2011, 02:00 PM
Mark Brown leaves his line less often than Stacky, so coming for crosses won't be a problem that will be solved by switching the current keepers. We had a dominant keeper who always came for crosses, and he was roundly hounded out, so we can't have the best of both worlds. If you know your keeper doesn't come off the line at all, then defenders know it's their responsibility. The confusion with Stack is that he sometimes comes, other times not. The goal Stokes scored earlier in the season was a delivery to around the same spot, yet he came. The Jelavic one he never even edged towards the ball.

lyonhibs
12-12-2011, 02:13 PM
Mark Brown leaves his line less often than Stacky, so coming for crosses won't be a problem that will be solved by switching the current keepers. We had a dominant keeper who always came for crosses, and he was roundly hounded out, so we can't have the best of both worlds. If you know your keeper doesn't come off the line at all, then defenders know it's their responsibility. The confusion with Stack is that he sometimes comes, other times not. The goal Stokes scored earlier in the season was a delivery to around the same spot, yet he came. The Jelavic one he never even edged towards the ball.

Who was that then??

You describe this mystery goales as "dominant", so god knows you can't be referring to Makalamby..........

lyonhibs
12-12-2011, 02:17 PM
I must know nothing about being a keeper then, which is worrying as i am!! :greengrin

Stack should and could have come for it.

Not saying he definitely couldn't have come for it, tho he'd have to have been a right twinkle toes to get to it, but more that that ball wasn't his responsibility.

That ball wasn't some world class undefendable nightmare cross - it was a decent-ish delivery into a good area, but one that any half competent defence would have defended, as opposed to ball watching and man-marking Osborne (your own team-mate) as opposed to Jelavic (SPL top scorer who plays for the opposition) as Grandad Hart did.

bawheid
12-12-2011, 02:22 PM
Mark Brown leaves his line less often than Stacky, so coming for crosses won't be a problem that will be solved by switching the current keepers. We had a dominant keeper who always came for crosses, and he was roundly hounded out, so we can't have the best of both worlds. If you know your keeper doesn't come off the line at all, then defenders know it's their responsibility. The confusion with Stack is that he sometimes comes, other times not. The goal Stokes scored earlier in the season was a delivery to around the same spot, yet he came. The Jelavic one he never even edged towards the ball.

I knew when I saw the thread title that it would only be a matter of time before the great man was brought into the debate.

Maka. :not worth

IWasThere2016
12-12-2011, 02:27 PM
I knew when I saw the thread title that it would only be a matter of time before the great man was brought into the debate.

Maka. :not worth

Who's bench is he warming these days?

pentlando
12-12-2011, 02:27 PM
Who was that then??

You describe this mystery goales as "dominant", so god knows you can't be referring to Makalamby..........

Naw, Jim Leighton :greengrin . Didn't want to drag him up into it so left the name absent, but the fact he's the first one you thought of shows he must have had some of what i was referring to. I'm not a goalie, never was. But isn't the golden rule that, if you're not going to come for all crosses, you have to do so when the ball crosses your 6 yard line. Even if he hadn't quite got to Jelavic, seeing the keeper only a yard away from you is going to prevent most players connecting perfectly, which unfortunately he did.

LeithBoozy
12-12-2011, 02:34 PM
One thing for sure, if you let a cross be met by a inrushing forward 6 yards out, you are going to concede. So once again this season someone is not doing their job.:rolleyes:

bawheid
12-12-2011, 02:36 PM
Who's bench is he warming these days?

Picking up the splinters for KV Mechelen in Belgium.

Misunderstood genius; a young goalie who should have been given more time.

Most natural ability of any Hibs goalkeeper since Leighton - sadly let down by lapses in concentration and a Hibs support that had been battered into submission by messrs Malkowski and Brown.

lyonhibs
12-12-2011, 02:52 PM
Picking up the splinters for KV Mechelen in Belgium.

Misunderstood genius; a young goalie who should have been given more time.

Most natural ability of any Hibs goalkeeper since Leighton - sadly let down by lapses in concentration and a Hibs support that had been battered into submission by messrs Malkowski and Brown.

Can't tell if this is serious or not.................... :confused:

bawheid
12-12-2011, 03:09 PM
Can't tell if this is serious or not.................... :confused:

Let's not go here again. :aok:

lyonhibs
12-12-2011, 03:18 PM
Let's not go here again. :aok:

Suits me - life's too short etc, and he wasn't in the same class of rankitude as Brown or Zibi, that much we can (surely to god) all agree on :agree:

The_Exile
12-12-2011, 03:29 PM
Bring back Daniel Anderson, why was he let go? I know he went to Helsinborg when Larsson was there, did he want to leave? he was the best Keeper I've seen us play in recent memory, although he didn't have much competition for that status!

Who was the keeper who gave up Basketball to play football, Ollie Gotskallson or summin? Christ we have had some awful keepers since I started watching Hibs, Leighton was the first/best for me, then all downhill!

ShanksSaidNo
12-12-2011, 03:30 PM
Fenlon's first call in January... Daniel Andreson.

pentlando
12-12-2011, 03:47 PM
Bring back Daniel Anderson, why was he let go? I know he went to Helsinborg when Larsson was there, did he want to leave? he was the best Keeper I've seen us play in recent memory, although he didn't have much competition for that status!

Who was the keeper who gave up Basketball to play football, Ollie Gotskallson or summin? Christ we have had some awful keepers since I started watching Hibs, Leighton was the first/best for me, then all downhill!

Anderson's heroics at Hampden against Rangers in that penalty shoot out will go with me to my grave, however my other memory of him is when he went to pick the ball up at Larsson's feet, only to pull his hands away and watch Henrik stick it in the net.

I loved big Ollie. Mind he saved a cracker of a penalty, against Celtic iirc, where he dived one way and the ball was dinked down the middle, only for him to flick his leg out and turn it onto the bar :thumbsup:

hughio
12-12-2011, 04:07 PM
One thing for sure, if you let a cross be met by a inrushing forward 6 yards out, you are going to concede. So once again this season someone is not doing their job.:rolleyes:

Too true.
Its easier for a good goalie to see all that coming rather than a defender jostling under a curling ball.

Main point is that once its that close to the goals the goalie MUST take charge.
Stacky is big enough to impose himself but didn't react quickly enough.

heretoday
12-12-2011, 04:12 PM
Hibs haven't had a decent keeper for yonks.

We always used to have great goalies and it's just as well given the porous nature of some of our defences!

R'Albin
12-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Anyone who thinks that - at that pace and trajectory - that cross was Stack's responsibility knows next to nothing about being a goalie.

IMO :greengrin

:agree:

TornadoHibby
12-12-2011, 04:29 PM
JC said on ESPN that Stacky should have come for the corner.If he had we would not have lost the second goal.
Anything in the 6 yard box has to be claimed or punched at least.

I think thats right.

I am not looking for scapegoats but am surprised I cannot see any comment on this on here..:confused:


I don't think the ball was in the 6 yard box until it landed at the unmarked SPL top scorer?

There was much said on here on Saturday afternoon/evening about whether Stack should have made some attempt to punch the ball clear or block it in some way or just try and put Jelavic off by jumping in front of him rather than standing on his line and hoping to save any header from a striking distance of around 4 yards!

Try some of this stuff (quotes) which has both sides of the "discussion" but before you do have another look at the "incident" using the BBC Highlights and watch from 4:00, Jelavic head to ball contact at 4:09!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/16132778.stm

Saturday Afternoon to evening quotes - saves you looking through several other threads as the points made are all pretty similar wherever you look! Some support JC and some think that Stack was right to do what essentially amounted to absolutely nothing to try and keep the ball out of his net irrespective of what other Hibs players didn't do which they should or might have done!


Stack wasnt at fault for the second goal???, he should wear a cloak and probably cant see his reflection hes that scared of crosses, its only 2 yards at least make a bloody attempt for it.



That's how I saw it too! :confused:

Failing to deal with crosses into his 6 yard box has always been a huge black hole in Stack's game IMO and, inevitably, goals will come from that failing regularly as we saw today!

The keeper should always have a height (reach) advantage in a straight "fight for the ball" and even if he only spoils the attackers header, he might well have done what he is there to do, namely keep the ball out of our net!


the cross was an inswinging ball played outside the 6 yard box but swinging back intowards the goal.

No way should Stack have come for it. If Hart does his job and challenges Jelavich, that goal doesn't happen or is at least less likely to happen. Stack was 100% not to blame for that goal. My seat is in the West right at that end of the pitch where the goal was scored. I had a perfect view of it and have seen it again on tv. Stack wouldn't have gotten anywhere near it if he'd come for it, and Jelavich would have headed into an empty net.


Sorry, don't agree and never will about Stack's unwillingness to come off his line to "de-risk" crosses into his 6 yard box which is the "keeper's area" after all!

Always better to try and fail IMO than to wait for the inevitable which is what he did today!

I really can't see why you would think that he "wouldn't have gotten anywhere near it if he'd come for it" but your justification for him not coming off his line is exactly what happened when he stayed on it! :confused:



The cross only came into the 6 yard box when it reached Jelavic's head, therefore by your own definition it's outwith the "keeper's area".

Many Hibs keepers recently have tried and failed coming for crosses and when the opposition inevitably score from it the keepers get slated for it.

As for the last point, Stack has a far better chance of saving the header if he's not already out the equation having missed the cross. He didn't save it on this occasion but he has done on others.


I'm just a practical kind of guy and Stack could and should have done much better than he did today regarding the second goal which would have been really easy for him as he did nothing! Whether the ball was marginally in or out of the six yard box (and we are talking about marginally here :rolleyes:) is neither here nor there if his action prevents a goal rather than his inaction doing nothing to prevent one! :confused:

I understand the theory about goalkeeping which you have kindly set out in your post and why some managers like their keepers to leave the big defenders to deal with crosses and stay on their line. :agree:

However, theory sometimes needs to be binned in situations like today IMO where any action from Stack in the region of where the ball was likely to be met by a player's head would have been better then none at all! :confused:


Just saw the goal again on the BBC news and Stack was around 3 yards from Jelavic at the point of head contact to the ball by Jelavic around 4 yards from the goal line! :agree:

How long does it take a fit and substantially built athlete to travel 3 yards to punch a ball or simply get in the way of the ball? :confused:

It's easier to do nothing and blame others it might seem although Hart should have done better too before the ball got close to Stack! :rolleyes:

RiseAbove
12-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Stack has always been poor in coming for cross balls, he was the same at Plymouth and it was the first comment John Blackley made when he heard hibs were interested in Stack.

matty_f
12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
There was much said on here on Saturday afternoon/evening about whether Stack should have made some attempt to punch the ball clear or block it in some way or just try and put Jelavic off by jumping in front of him rather than standing on his line and hoping to save any header from a striking distance of around 4 yards!

Try some of this stuff (quotes) which has both sides of the "discussion" but before you do have another look at the "incident" using the BBC Highlights and watch from 4:00, Jelavic head to ball contact at 4:09!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/16132778.stm

Saturday Afternoon to evening quotes - saves you looking through several other threads as the points made are all pretty similar wherever you look! Some support JC and some think that Stack was right to do what essentially amounted to absolutely nothing to try and keep the ball out of his net irrespective of what other Hibs players didn't do which they should or might have done!

Just watched it again, the ball comes across the six yard line before curving in onto Jelavic's head. My opinion hasn't changed at all after seeing that for what would now be about the seventh or eighth time at least.

TornadoHibby
12-12-2011, 05:06 PM
Just watched it again, the ball comes across the six yard line before curving in onto Jelavic's head. My opinion hasn't changed at all after seeing that for what would now be about the seventh or eighth time at least.

That's fine, the evidence is there for us all to form an opinion on it, and if you still believe that Stack should not have tried to cover no more than three yards to try and prevent an otherwise certain goal then so be it! :rolleyes:

If playing competitive sport means that a major team participant can get away with behaving in that kind of way then I've been doing something wrong for a number of years now in that I always believe (and play with that in mind) that anything that can legally be done to improve a team's position must be done by every participant during the playing time of the game! :confused:

You never did express and opinion on my question (see below) in response to your statement that Stack could never have got anywhere near the ball in a previous post from Saturday? :wink:


How long does it take a fit and substantially built athlete to travel 3 yards to punch a ball or simply get in the way of the ball? :confused:

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 05:12 PM
It only made it into the 6 yard box when it landed Ė at all other times it was outside. Iím not sure when Stack couldíve come and claimed it to be honest.

I'm sure the rules state that keepers can catch or punch the ball anywhere in the 18 yard box? He's not restricted to the 6 yard box.

The ball was 4 yards out when Jellybitch nodded it in and he didn't even have to jump :agree:

Keepers ball all day :aok:

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 05:48 PM
Notice an inconsistency tornado states stack was 3 yards from jellyfish though squashedfrogg says that jellyfish was 4 yards out, now the picture in the evening news shows stack in the middle of his goal on his line (that he apparently never leaves) yet jellyfish is at the back post , so with out a maths degree can you work out the actual distance stack is from the goalscorer ? Answers on a postcard to cocopops1875 and if anyone can come up with 3 yards and show me your workings I will post you a kinder egg

TornadoHibby
12-12-2011, 05:58 PM
Not saying he definitely couldn't have come for it, tho he'd have to have been a right twinkle toes to get to it, but more that that ball wasn't his responsibility. That ball wasn't some world class undefendable nightmare cross - it was a decent-ish delivery into a good area, but one that any half competent defence would have defended, as opposed to ball watching and man-marking Osborne (your own team-mate) as opposed to Jelavic (SPL top scorer who plays for the opposition) as Grandad Hart did.

That is an unbelievable statement for anyone to make about what happened in the immediacy prior to and after Jelavic getting his head to the ball for the 2nd goal! :confused:

Irrespective of what any other Hibs player did or didn't do prior to that point, Stack had a massive duty to do, as soon as he realised the ball was in his "reaching" area, all he could as the last man with the benefit of being able to legitimately use his hands and arms to distract Jelavic or catch or punch the ball with! :agree:

He did nothing and that IMO is totally inexcusable for a goalkeeper at schoolboy level let alone SPL level!:confused:

For those that disagree, could someone put the corollary argument up here for everyone to understand please! :rolleyes:

TornadoHibby
12-12-2011, 06:02 PM
Notice an inconsistency tornado states stack was 3 yards from jellyfish though squashedfrogg says that jellyfish was 4 yards out, now the picture in the evening news shows stack in the middle of his goal on his line (that he apparently never leaves) yet jellyfish is at the back post , so with out a maths degree can you work out the actual distance stack is from the goalscorer ? Answers on a postcard to cocopops1875 and if anyone can come up with 3 yards and show me your workings I will post you a kinder egg

Not sure how your post helps at all actually but check the BBC link yourself and you will able to make your own mind up rather than relying upon hearsay or pictures in the EEN which may have been taken from viewpoints that misrepresent the situation! That way you will see that there is no "inconsistency" noted at the start of your post! :rolleyes:

Sorry Graham but you could and should have done much better than you did with this one on Saturday! :wink:

GreenCastle
12-12-2011, 06:15 PM
Should have been keepers ball :agree: or at least attempt to try and claim it and distract the goalscorer of a simple header.

If you watch it - he actually adjusts his feet and goes backwards slightly.

Stack I think is a great character and has made some very good saves for Hibs but crosses aren't his strong point and this is probably one of the main reasons he never stayed long at a top club in his 9 years as a pro - obviously injuries have hampered him also.

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 06:18 PM
Tornado having watched it many times I don't agree and there is an inconsistency as pointed out in terms of the yards. A keeper moving backwards covering 6ish yards as quick as the ball is going is unlikely at best. He was panned for going for one against celtic and failing. I also firmly believe these things are not just left to chance they are thought though and the decision is made by the boss if he should or should not be coming for them. As for the suggestion I may be stackers I assure you my 7s team wish I was

Danderhall Hibs
12-12-2011, 07:23 PM
I'm sure the rules state that keepers can catch or punch the ball anywhere in the 18 yard box? He's not restricted to the 6 yard box.



Correct but the rule we were discussing was the unwritten rule that any ball into the 6 yard box is the goalies ball.

I can't see where Stack was supposed to take the ball - I suppose he could've picked up Jelavic but that'd left the goal unattended.

ancient hibee
12-12-2011, 07:30 PM
Stack was found out by other teams the minute they saw him drop the cross against Celtic in the first game of the season.A good goalie will always position himself to try and come forward for the ball instead of having to back pedal like he does.The goal he lost against Dunfermline was another terrible example -he let it go past him and by the time it reached McCann he was able to side foot it.


Pity because other than Jimmy Cowan all Scotland's best goalies over the past 60 years have played for us.

Lago
12-12-2011, 07:37 PM
Picking up the splinters for KV Mechelen in Belgium.

Misunderstood genius; a young goalie who should have been given more time.

Most natural ability of any Hibs goalkeeper since Leighton - sadly let down by lapses in concentration and a Hibs support that had been battered into submission by messrs Malkowski and Brown.

That natural ability didn't work at Swansea either.

Scouse Hibee
12-12-2011, 07:43 PM
This thread is funny as :faf: Reminds me of watching a courtroom drama, all that is missing is for the prosection or the defence to call an expert witness (a current SPL goalie) to testify whether or not he would have/should have come/not come for the ball. :greengrin.

Never in the field of human football has one goal been contested by so many and agreed by so few!

Scouse Hibee
12-12-2011, 07:47 PM
Picking up the splinters for KV Mechelen in Belgium.

Misunderstood genius; a young goalie who should have been given more time.

Most natural ability of any Hibs goalkeeper since Leighton - sadly let down by lapses in concentration and a Hibs support that had been battered into submission by messrs Malkowski and Brown.

:faf: Just a pity his natural abillity was **** all to do with goalkeeping!

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 08:17 PM
Stack was found out by other teams the minute they saw him drop the cross against Celtic in the first game of the season.A good goalie will always position himself to try and come forward for the ball instead of having to back pedal like he does.The goal he lost against Dunfermline was another terrible example -he let it go past him and by the time it reached McCann he was able to side foot it.


Pity because other than Jimmy Cowan all Scotland's best goalies over the past 60 years have played for us.

very interesting so if the ball is dropping at the back post where do you suggest any keeper should position themselves at corners to as you put it "come forward for the ball" ?

hibee_patty
12-12-2011, 08:24 PM
Stack is reluctant to come for crosses of any sort! We have conceded so many goals that i think stack could/should be collecting the rangers one was a quality ball in and dono if stack shoud off collected it but has to be in the face of forwards on these instances. But aberdeen at home, dunfermline, st johnstone away we have conceeded from corners. Think fenlon will be looking at this i hope

Andy74
12-12-2011, 08:27 PM
Correct but the rule we were discussing was the unwritten rule that any ball into the 6 yard box is the goalies ball.

I can't see where Stack was supposed to take the ball - I suppose he could've picked up Jelavic but that'd left the goal unattended.

That rule is nonsense. It very much depends how the ball is traveling, how quickly, where it's come from, who is in the box, how clear the path to the ball is - all sorts of things.

Watch a few games and you'll see a very low percentage of balls into the six yard box being claimed by the keeper.

Jonnyboy
12-12-2011, 08:36 PM
Anderson's heroics at Hampden against Rangers in that penalty shoot out will go with me to my grave, however my other memory of him is when he went to pick the ball up at Larsson's feet, only to pull his hands away and watch Henrik stick it in the net.

I loved big Ollie. Mind he saved a cracker of a penalty, against Celtic iirc, where he dived one way and the ball was dinked down the middle, only for him to flick his leg out and turn it onto the bar :thumbsup:

Did you know that Ollie was a fantastic basketball player? Pity he didn't take that up instead :greengrin

lyonhibs
12-12-2011, 08:45 PM
Did you know that Ollie was a fantastic basketball player? Pity he didn't take that up instead :greengrin

Did one of our managers not - with the glorious benefit of hindsight - describe him as like a "drunk man trying to catch a balloon"?

On a sliding scale, our goalie position isn't top of the list. Full backs and a creative midfielder are more important.

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 08:51 PM
very interesting so if the ball is dropping at the back post where do you suggest any keeper should position themselves at corners to as you put it "come forward for the ball" ?


Erm, basic coaching would suggest a yard or two off their line in the centre. Once the ball is in flight they are allowed to move from this position. Keepers are encouraged to arc across their goal area allowing them to move towards back post.
:agree:

The fact of the matter is the ball was well within an area where he could've either taken it cleanly or punched. Jellypish never even jumped to head it in.

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 09:05 PM
So you suggest he goes back then forward ? as you are answering my question to someone else I assume you agree that he should be coming forward to take the ball ?

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 09:11 PM
So you suggest he goes back then forward ?
as you are answering my question to someone else I assume you agree that he should be coming forward to take the ball ?

No, I'm suggesting he stands where he's been coached to stand. Then make a decision when the ball is in flight. Why would he go back and then forward? :confused:

One of the biggest area's in goalkeepers coaching is footwork and positioning.

I'm answering your post :confused:

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 09:22 PM
If you read the quoted post you would understand the question

Danderhall Hibs
12-12-2011, 09:24 PM
That rule is nonsense. It very much depends how the ball is traveling, how quickly, where it's come from, who is in the box, how clear the path to the ball is - all sorts of things.

Watch a few games and you'll see a very low percentage of balls into the six yard box being claimed by the keeper.

I think you'll find I'm agreeing with you Andy. :greengrin

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 09:24 PM
If you read the quoted post you would understand the question

I have and was responding to your post

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 09:28 PM
I know where a keeper should be what I wish to know is how from that starting position could he take the ball coming forward ?

jimmythefish
12-12-2011, 10:27 PM
stack is seriously lacking when it comes to crosses, in the games against motherwell & dunfermline at easter road we lost 2 identical goals, balls crossed in around the 6 yard area he stays on his line & they score at the back stick , good shot stopper but hardly inspiring confidence give brown his chance much better all round keeper imo

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 10:59 PM
I know where a keeper should be what I wish to know is how from that starting position could he take the ball coming forward ?

Footwork :confused: He judges the flight of the ball and moves his feet to a position where he can jump and catch or punch it...

Physics dictates that he has to stand somewhere before the ball is kicked. Agreed?

Then anticipation and experience then informs him where to be positioned next.

Are you having a laugh or just not very bright?

Hibercelona
12-12-2011, 11:03 PM
A goalie coming off his line should be a last resort.

Hart should have had it covered but took his eyes of his marker entirely. A complete school boy error IMO.

Stack can't be held accountable for this one.

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 11:12 PM
A goalie coming off his line should be a last resort.

Hart should have had it covered but took his eyes of his marker entirely. A complete school boy error IMO.

Stack can't be held accountable for this one.

Totally disagree with this statement. Goalkeepers are allowed to catch or punch the ball in the entire 18 yard box. That's why they wear gloves :confused: A keeper staying on their line is the last resort :agree:

TornadoHibby
12-12-2011, 11:25 PM
Correct but the rule we were discussing was the unwritten rule that any ball into the 6 yard box is the goalies ball.

I can't see where Stack was supposed to take the ball - I suppose he could've picked up Jelavic but that'd left the goal unattended.

Erm...., absolute bollocks but not many will be surprised by your desire to "split hairs" rather than deal with the fundamental point at issue here which some people agree with and others, such as your self, don't agree with, namely, "why did Stack make no attempt to try and prevent Jelavic from scoring the 2nd goal on Saturday when he could have done something to stop the goal or even spoil Jelavic's opportunity by simply attacking the ball which was only some three yards from him at the point of contact by Jelavic"? :confused:

So much redundant pish gets posted on here to "muddy the waters" when the real issue is staring us all in the face! :rolleyes:

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 11:27 PM
Footwork :confused: He judges the flight of the ball and moves his feet to a position where he can jump and catch or punch it...

Physics dictates that he has to stand somewhere before the ball is kicked. Agreed?

Then anticipation and experience then informs him where to be positioned next.

Are you having a laugh or just not very bright?
Well to be fair I'm not very bright and I do agree that he has to stand somewhere I also agree with you on where he should be standing there or thereabouts however the point the other poster was making is that a keeper should not be going backwards to catch a ball and should in fact be going forward to meet the ball, now as the ball came in behind his starting position how do you propose he achieves this ? Just a simple question ? We clearly are not likely to agree on the rights and wrongs of stack and although it is my position that you know nothing about being a keeper I'm also as sure my 7s teammates would suggest the same for me.

TornadoHibby
12-12-2011, 11:28 PM
Tornado having watched it many times I don't agree and there is an inconsistency as pointed out in terms of the yards. A keeper moving backwards covering 6ish yards as quick as the ball is going is unlikely at best. He was panned for going for one against celtic and failing. I also firmly believe these things are not just left to chance they are thought though and the decision is made by the boss if he should or should not be coming for them. As for the suggestion I may be stackers I assure you my 7s team wish I was

Specsavers for the emboldened part I suggest and proper care and attention when you watch the actual incident as I suggested that you should giving you a direct and helpful link to said incident! :wink:

I have no idea what the rest of your post means I'm afraid! :confused:

TornadoHibby
12-12-2011, 11:35 PM
A goalie coming off his line should be a last resort.

Hart should have had it covered but took his eyes of his marker entirely. A complete school boy error IMO.

Stack can't be held accountable for this one.

So because Hart fails to do his job, are you suggesting that our keeper, who was close enough to the ball at the material time, should not do his job and try and keep the ball out of our net, in the belief that someone else will get the blame for the conceded goal!? :confused:

So ridiculous it's actually laughable that anyone could post such nonsense! :rolleyes:

yekimevol
12-12-2011, 11:42 PM
Bring back Daniel Anderson, why was he let go? I know he went to Helsinborg when Larsson was there, did he want to leave? he was the best Keeper I've seen us play in recent memory, although he didn't have much competition for that status!

Who was the keeper who gave up Basketball to play football, Ollie Gotskallson or summin? Christ we have had some awful keepers since I started watching Hibs, Leighton was the first/best for me, then all downhill!

danny left over wages :brickwall imagine what mogga would have achieved with him between the sticks instead of the clowns :saltireflag

ps he is still playing someone tell paddy !!!

:pfgwa

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 11:45 PM
Well to be fair I'm not very bright and I do agree that he has to stand somewhere I also agree with you on where he should be standing there or thereabouts however the point the other poster was making is that a keeper should not be going backwards to catch a ball and should in fact be going forward to meet the ball, now as the ball came in behind his starting position how do you propose he achieves this ? Just a simple question ? We clearly are not likely to agree on the rights and wrongs of stack and although it is my position that you know nothing about being a keeper I'm also as sure my 7s teammates would suggest the same for me.

Please stop bring other posters into your post.

Stack's starting position was correct. Is stated before, his next movement should've been made on his assessment of the flight of the ball. This is, in my experience, is where he went wrong. Whether it be lack of confidence or lack of ability I'm not sure. If, the ball is heading towards, say, the edge of the 18 yard box, then he's entitled to take a step back, check his position, and stay aware of all around him. If the ball is heading towards the goal (anywhere between the goal line and the six yard box for example) He would be encouraged to move towards the ball and deal with it. If a defender heads or clears the ball before him, then brilliant, job done. If not , as last man in defence, he has to make an effort to get the ball.

The funny thing is, if a keeper has great defenders in front of them he's be more inclined to leave it but based on our current defence he should be even more inclined to get the ball.

FWIW I actually quite like Stack and believe he's a decent keeper but at the same time have spent too many years coaching to be able to accept the weightless comments you make.

Stick to 7's :agree:

Hibercelona
12-12-2011, 11:45 PM
Totally disagree with this statement. Goalkeepers are allowed to catch or punch the ball in the entire 18 yard box. That's why they wear gloves :confused: A keeper staying on their line is the last resort :agree:


So because Hart fails to do his job, are you suggesting that our keeper, who was close enough to the ball at the material time, should not do his job and try and keep the ball out of our net, in the belief that someone else will get the blame for the conceded goal!? :confused:

So ridiculous it's actually laughable that anyone could post such nonsense! :rolleyes:

So if a ball comes into the box and a defender who should have it covered easily fails to do so, its the keepers fault?


Only on Hibs.net.... :rolleyes:

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 11:47 PM
So if a ball comes into the box and a defender who should have it covered easily fails to do so, its the keepers fault?


Only on Hibs.net.... :rolleyes:

Not exactly but kind of , yes :agree:

A bit of advice as well, don't base your entire views on life and on Hibs purely on .net

cocopops1875
12-12-2011, 11:57 PM
Please stop bring other posters into your post.

Stack's starting position was correct. Is stated before, his next movement should've been made on his assessment of the flight of the ball. This is, in my experience, is where he went wrong. Whether it be lack of confidence or lack of ability I'm not sure. If, the ball is heading towards, say, the edge of the 18 yard box, then he's entitled to take a step back, check his position, and stay aware of all around him. If the ball is heading towards the goal (anywhere between the goal line and the six yard box for example) He would be encouraged to move towards the ball and deal with it. If a defender heads or clears the ball before him, then brilliant, job done. If not , as last man in defence, he has to make an effort to get the ball.

The funny thing is, if a keeper has great defenders in front of them he's be more inclined to leave it but based on our current defence he should be even more inclined to get the ball.

FWIW I actually quite like Stack and believe he's a decent keeper but at the same time have spent too many years coaching to be able to accept the weightless comments you make.

Stick to 7's :agree:
Haha just out of point I agree with basically all of this but if you re read the statement you jumped on you would actually see this is my point. What I do like however is your suggestion that my comments are weightless as you have coaching experience, yet you find it ok to question someone who has had high level coaching for 20ish years

SquashedFrogg
12-12-2011, 11:59 PM
Haha just out of point I agree with basically all of this but if you re read the statement you jumped on you would actually see this is my point. What I do like however is your suggestion that my comments are weightless as you have coaching experience, yet you find it ok to question someone who has had high level coaching for 20ish years

Dude, this is cryptic?? Make your mind up and come back to me in the morning... 20 years experience? As what?? :rolleyes:

TornadoHibby
13-12-2011, 12:05 AM
So if a ball comes into the box and a defender who should have it covered easily fails to do so, its the keepers fault?


Only on Hibs.net.... :rolleyes:

It's much simpler than that young man, they are both culpable but the keeper is the 'last man', and, in this case, should have been able to get close enough to the ball to spoil the opportunity for Jelavic, and possibly prevent the goal BUT only if he made an effort to do so, which, sadly, he chose not to!

That a bit more clear now?

cocopops1875
13-12-2011, 08:02 AM
Dude, this is cryptic?? Make your mind up and come back to me in the morning... 20 years experience? As what?? :rolleyes:

You are questioning stacks decision to stay on his line is that fair ? You ate also saying that my opinion is "weightless" underlining that with the fact you coach/have coached is that fair ? I'm saying that stack has received around 20 years of top level coaching so surely in a position to know what he should be doing is this fair ?

matty_f
13-12-2011, 08:20 AM
You are questioning stacks decision to stay on his line is that fair ? You ate also saying that my opinion is "weightless" underlining that with the fact you coach/have coached is that fair ? I'm saying that stack has received around 20 years of top level coaching so surely in a position to know what he should be doing is this fair ?I'd say Stack has probably forgotten more about goalkeeping than most of us know. :agree:Don't worry, someone will be along to patronise us further in a minute. :greengrin

TornadoHibby
13-12-2011, 08:38 AM
I'd say Stack has probably forgotten more about goalkeeping than most of us know. :agree:Don't worry, someone will be along to patronise us further in a minute. :greengrin

No one else needed for that purpose when you are on here and dealing with posts from people who don't agree with your "expert" opinions on all matters football and Hibs........in my opinion of course! :rolleyes:

matty_f
13-12-2011, 08:39 AM
No one else needed for that purpose when you are on here and dealing with posts from people who don't agree with your "expert" opinions on all matters football and Hibs........in my opinion of course! :rolleyes: aww that's nice.

Septimus
13-12-2011, 08:51 AM
Stack was found out by other teams the minute they saw him drop the cross against Celtic in the first game of the season.A good goalie will always position himself to try and come forward for the ball instead of having to back pedal like he does.The goal he lost against Dunfermline was another terrible example -he let it go past him and by the time it reached McCann he was able to side foot it.


Pity because other than Jimmy Cowan all Scotland's best goalies over the past 60 years have played for us.

Bill Brown, Jerry Dawson, Freddie Martin to name but a few who never played for Hibs.

Beefster
13-12-2011, 08:52 AM
I haven't read all this thread but the main problem with Hibs goalkeepers is us. They make a mistake and we scream for one of the other ones to be given a chance, one of the other ones makes a mistake and we scream for the next guy, the next guy makes a mistake and we scream for the original guy.

We just need to accept that goalkeepers who play for Hibs are not world-class and will make mistakes. Just like any other Hibs player. Folk don't call for strikers to be dropped for missing a single chance and if we dropped our defenders every time they messed up, we'd run out after a game and a half.

hibsbollah
13-12-2011, 08:54 AM
A goalie coming off his line should be a last resort.. I think most coaches would disagree with that. 6 yard box should=keepers baw.

Bohemian_Hibee
13-12-2011, 08:59 AM
I have a sneaky feeling PF might try to get Brian Murphy from QPR on loan in January. He had 2 fantastic years under Fenlon at Bohs (probably the best keeper we've ever had - 63 clean sheets in 97 league games!) before moving on to Ipswich and then QPR. He seems to have been very injury prone since he moved to England and hasn't had a consistent run of games but is a super keeper. As he's probably fallen down the pecking order at Loftus Road and considering his recent spate of injuries, a loan deal could be on the cards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Murphy_(footballer)

TornadoHibby
13-12-2011, 09:40 AM
aww that's nice.

See, just can't help yourself now can you? :rolleyes:

matty_f
13-12-2011, 09:44 AM
See, just can't help yourself now can you? :rolleyes::aok:

ancient hibee
13-12-2011, 11:25 AM
Bill Brown, Jerry Dawson, Freddie Martin to name but a few who never played for Hibs.

Bill Brown is the best of that lot.Fred Martin was hopeless -worse on crosses than Stack.None of them was at the races compared to Goram,Younger,Leslie,Rough and Leighton.

Septimus
13-12-2011, 01:41 PM
Bill Brown is the best of that lot.Fred Martin was hopeless -worse on crosses than Stack.None of them was at the races compared to Goram,Younger,Leslie,Rough and Leighton.

I think it was 1947 when Freddie Martin broke my nine year old heart and went off to Aberdeen with a Scottish Cup winners badge. In fact Bill Brown had a weakness with crosses too. Incidentally I only saw Jimmy Cowan play once and that was a special trip to Tannadice to see the man who had beaten England almost single handed. I was not over impressed but in these days Tannadice could be accessed through the loose corrugated iron and was a sea of mud on that particular day. Dundee United against Morton was hardly world class stuff. Dens Park appeared to be a gleaming mecca of football and was where the crowds went.

ancient hibee
13-12-2011, 07:30 PM
I hate to disagree with such a well informed personage as yourself but I think you'll find that the Aberdeen goalie that day was called Johnstone who kindly presented us with the opening goal.You're quite right about Bill Brown and his trouble with crosses-he got away with it at Spurs because of their terrific defence.

Scouse Hibee
13-12-2011, 07:49 PM
Maka,from memory had a four game shut out and then i think Rangers put four goals past us (none of which could be described as "howlers")
He was dropped and now look what's transpired on the goalie front! Christ! The 6 goals at Motherwell,the threes, fours and fives against other teams. Stack's a coward and if Fenlon doesn't see that pretty quickly I'll delay my intended return to being one of the paying public again.
There is or was a You Tube video of Maka which demonstrates or demonstrated what we're missing :wink::wink:

Maka was a bombscare and one of the most awkward looking keepers I have ever seen. Never a decent keeper in a million years was my opinion from pretty early on and he's done absolutely nothing to prove me wrong! Where is he now?

Scouse Hibee
13-12-2011, 08:15 PM
Oh,At a club that would ram it up us 10 out of ten:rolleyes:

Yeah just checked I see he has made the number one position (on the bench) his own! Must have been all those games for Swansea that got him the move :rolleyes: