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View Full Version : Shape up or ship out !!!!!!!



Hibby cal
01-12-2011, 04:48 AM
Pat fenlon and his coaching staff have seen what
They have to deal with already and the ultimatum
To the squad is shape up or ship out come January
.
I think bb has given him his advice on who the
Slackers/ waste of a shirt are.

Who'll be the first to go ?????

Sounds like PF means business

:pfgwa

DMR1875
01-12-2011, 05:02 AM
About time. Hope he lives up to his words and bins most of them.:thumbsup:

TrickyNicky
01-12-2011, 05:06 AM
Pat fenlon and his coaching staff have seen what
They have to deal with already and the ultimatum
To the squad is shape up or ship out come January
.
I think bb has given him his advice on who the
Slackers/ waste of a shirt are.

Who'll be the first to go ?????

Sounds like PF means business

:pfgwa


Hopefully not Fenlon.:wink:

RIP
01-12-2011, 07:24 AM
Shape up yes :top marks but ship out?. This is not the solution - it's actually at the root of the biggest single problem at the club under Petrie i.e.

Lack of football knowledge in the boardroom has led directors to somehow believe that a well-run football business changes the manager every year and hands over the whole football operation to this year's temp managerial incumbent. They then support the acquisition of an entire new squad. Meanwhile we get a terrible reputation for hire and fire and good players are less willing to sign up for fear that the following year's manager will ship them out. We end up signing only the jobless or desperate - players whose careers have nosedived or been flops elsewhere

Hibs have operated this madness since Mowbray and the real objectives of a manager i.e. A steady team, fitness, proper coaching and good tactics have been ignored. The Board's only answer has been 'sign new players and ship out the old ones'

And where has that approach got us?

Going backwards - fast!!

Forza Fred
01-12-2011, 07:54 AM
Shape up yes :top marks but ship out?. This is not the solution - it's actually at the root of the biggest single problem at the club under Petrie i.e.

Lack of football knowledge in the boardroom has led directors to somehow believe that a well-run football business changes the manager every year and hands over the whole football operation to this year's temp managerial incumbent. They then support the acquisition of an entire new squad. Meanwhile we get a terrible reputation for hire and fire and good players are less willing to sign up for fear that the following year's manager will ship them out. We end up signing only the jobless or desperate - players whose careers have nosedived or been flops elsewhere

Hibs have operated this madness since Mowbray and the real objectives of a manager i.e. A steady team, fitness, proper coaching and good tactics have been ignored. The Board's only answer has been 'sign new players and ship out the old ones'

And where has that approach got us?

Going backwards - fast!!

Listen chum,

Dont comé on here with your reasoned argument and sensible talk.wink:

Kaiser1962
01-12-2011, 08:16 AM
Shape up yes :top marks but ship out?. This is not the solution - it's actually at the root of the biggest single problem at the club under Petrie i.e.

Lack of football knowledge in the boardroom has led directors to somehow believe that a well-run football business changes the manager every year and hands over the whole football operation to this year's temp managerial incumbent. They then support the acquisition of an entire new squad. Meanwhile we get a terrible reputation for hire and fire and good players are less willing to sign up for fear that the following year's manager will ship them out. We end up signing only the jobless or desperate - players whose careers have nosedived or been flops elsewhere

Hibs have operated this madness since Mowbray and the real objectives of a manager i.e. A steady team, fitness, proper coaching and good tactics have been ignored. The Board's only answer has been 'sign new players and ship out the old ones'

And where has that approach got us?

Going backwards - fast!!

Was it not the same boardroom that gave Mowbray the job?

Allant1981
01-12-2011, 08:18 AM
I agree that changing players all the time doesnt help but some of them just arent good enough if you want a team challenging at the top end of the league.

happiehibbie
01-12-2011, 08:26 AM
I was listening to Pat Stanton speaking about this on Radio Scotland the other night i think he sumed it up really well

"Who at ER thought that these player where good enough to play for hibs ? Thats the worrying thing "

cant say it any better really

WindyMiller
01-12-2011, 08:30 AM
Shape up yes :top marks but ship out?. This is not the solution - it's actually at the root of the biggest single problem at the club under Petrie i.e.

Lack of football knowledge in the boardroom has led directors to somehow believe that a well-run football business changes the manager every year and hands over the whole football operation to this year's temp managerial incumbent. They then support the acquisition of an entire new squad. Meanwhile we get a terrible reputation for hire and fire and good players are less willing to sign up for fear that the following year's manager will ship them out. We end up signing only the jobless or desperate - players whose careers have nosedived or been flops elsewhere

Hibs have operated this madness since Mowbray and the real objectives of a manager i.e. A steady team, fitness, proper coaching and good tactics have been ignored. The Board's only answer has been 'sign new players and ship out the old ones'

And where has that approach got us?

Going backwards - fast!!


So the board should just tell the manager to work with what we have on the books already?
The what happens when we get relegated?

stubru59
01-12-2011, 08:31 AM
Shape up or ship out doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of players. It means quite simply that players need to change their mind-set and the way they go about things or...

Players languishing in the comfort zone is no longer an option.

down the slope
01-12-2011, 08:31 AM
Shape up yes :top marks but ship out?. This is not the solution - it's actually at the root of the biggest single problem at the club under Petrie i.e.

Lack of football knowledge in the boardroom has led directors to somehow believe that a well-run football business changes the manager every year and hands over the whole football operation to this year's temp managerial incumbent. They then support the acquisition of an entire new squad. Meanwhile we get a terrible reputation for hire and fire and good players are less willing to sign up for fear that the following year's manager will ship them out. We end up signing only the jobless or desperate - players whose careers have nosedived or been flops elsewhere

Hibs have operated this madness since Mowbray and the real objectives of a manager i.e. A steady team, fitness, proper coaching and good tactics have been ignored. The Board's only answer has been 'sign new players and ship out the old ones'

And where has that approach got us?

Going backwards - fast!!

I think you are correct about the board bit , their lack of football knowledge is plain for all to see and i suspect for them the team is only playing badly when they see the crowds drop . They are not football people and if we were all daft enough to roll up in the numbers we had in the past they would not care what division we were in as the club for them would be a success as we were not losing money. Thats where the difference lies between our board and the supporters , we want success for football glory , for them success is balance sheet glory.

Iain G
01-12-2011, 08:40 AM
I think you are correct about the board bit , their lack of football knowledge is plain for all to see and i suspect for them the team is only playing badly when they see the crowds drop . They are not football people and if we were all daft enough to roll up in the numbers we had in the past they would not care what division we were in as the club for them would be a success as we were not losing money. Thats where the difference lies between our board and the supporters , we want success for football glory , for them success is balance sheet glory.

Do you really think they are that naive about running Hibs, or are you just happy trotting out this tired old line about balance sheets... :confused:

Captain Trips
01-12-2011, 09:06 AM
Do you really think they are that naive about running Hibs, or are you just happy trotting out this tired old line about balance sheets... :confused:

They might not be naive Iain but they are not showing the same level of competence football wise as they are fisacally and the proof is right there in yet another "new start".

A new start under Mixu another under Hughes yet another under Calderwood and now yet another, understandable if the previous guys got headhunted and we had to bring in new people but we sacked them all for various reasons, sure we have had fiscal matters dealt/dealing with in a good manor but the football side has been a failure for years now, the board have proved already they are not really capable.

Onto thread point, I think Pat will take a good look at players as at times players who have been bad are moved to other positions and do well and some whom are under radar come good. I think we need to see what infulence and tactics he has over players there might hopefully be one or two surprises.

James70
01-12-2011, 09:08 AM
Shape up yes :top marks but ship out?. This is not the solution - it's actually at the root of the biggest single problem at the club under Petrie i.e.

Lack of football knowledge in the boardroom has led directors to somehow believe that a well-run football business changes the manager every year and hands over the whole football operation to this year's temp managerial incumbent. They then support the acquisition of an entire new squad. Meanwhile we get a terrible reputation for hire and fire and good players are less willing to sign up for fear that the following year's manager will ship them out. We end up signing only the jobless or desperate - players whose careers have nosedived or been flops elsewhere

Hibs have operated this madness since Mowbray and the real objectives of a manager i.e. A steady team, fitness, proper coaching and good tactics have been ignored. The Board's only answer has been 'sign new players and ship out the old ones'

And where has that approach got us?

Going backwards - fast!!


To be fair to the board, it has been pressure or reaction from the support that has contributed to all but one of the managers from the post Mowbray period leaving the club.

The board are certainly culpable for Collins departure and for getting subsequent appointments badly wrong. However saying that, the majority of the support were all for Mixu and then Yogi getting the job and the only unpopular appointment at the time was probably CC.

I have a feeling in my water that this latest appointment will turn out to be a good one and we may finish up regretting only giving him a 2.5 year contract.

Iain G
01-12-2011, 09:11 AM
They might not be naive Iain but they are not showing the same level of competence football wise as they are fisacally and the proof is right there in yet another "new start".

A new start under Mixu another under Hughes yet another under Calderwood and now yet another, understandable if the previous guys got headhunted and we had to bring in new people but we sacked them all for various reasons, sure we have had fiscal matters dealt/dealing with in a good manor but the football side has been a failure for years now, the board have proved already they are not really capable.

Onto thread point, I think Pat will take a good look at players as at times players who have been bad are moved to other positions and do well and some whom are under radar come good. I think we need to see what infulence and tactics he has over players there might hopefully be one or two surprises.

Mostly I agree it hasn't worked out over the last few managers, but am so fed up with the whole "only interested in balance sheet" crap that is as old as the hills and simply not true. If we were only concerned with the balance sheet would we be reporting a loss this year or would they have allowed Calderwood or Hughes or Collins to bring in the players on big wages that we signed?

Anyway, I feel happy and confident with Paddy and hope we all pull forward in a positive and succesfull way :agree:

Captain Trips
01-12-2011, 09:16 AM
Mostly I agree it hasn't worked out over the last few managers, but am so fed up with the whole "only interested in balance sheet" crap that is as old as the hills and simply not true. If we were only concerned with the balance sheet would we be reporting a loss this year or would they have allowed Calderwood or Hughes or Collins to bring in the players on big wages that we signed?

Anyway, I feel happy and confident with Paddy and hope we all pull forward in a positive and succesfull way :agree:

I agree it is not only balance sheet it is in everyones interests for team to do well, I just don't think they are very good at that part.

calumb
01-12-2011, 10:29 AM
I agree that changing players all the time doesnt help but some of them just arent good enough if you want a team challenging at the top end of the league.

I don't agree, I think that current squad are good enough but appear poorly motivated and severely lacking in fitness and this gives the appearance of them being poor.

To me the situation that we are in is totally down to the manager/coaches and the mindset we have allowed to develop at the club.
The club has been heading on this path since the days of Mowbray but he got away with it because of we had a really talented bunch of players that had just come out of the youth ranks.

We have seen recently with the likes of Wotherspoon, Booth and Hanlon that they look fit and strong coming out of the youth team but give them a year hanging about with the first team and they can barely run at more than a jog for 90 mins.

I think BB spotted the obvious fitness problems right away so hopefully he along with Fenlon will get it sorted and then we will start to move right up the league.

To me there is not a team outwith the old firm that we should not be able to beat every week, the only thing that seperates us from them is they are fitter, hungrier and want to win more than us. This can be easily remedied without the need for massive squad changes.

Iain G
01-12-2011, 10:48 AM
I don't agree, I think that current squad are good enough but appear poorly motivated and severely lacking in fitness and this gives the appearance of them being poor.

To me the situation that we are in is totally down to the manager/coaches and the mindset we have allowed to develop at the club.
The club has been heading on this path since the days of Mowbray but he got away with it because of we had a really talented bunch of players that had just come out of the youth ranks.

We have seen recently with the likes of Wotherspoon, Booth and Hanlon that they look fit and strong coming out of the youth team but give them a year hanging about with the first team and they can barely run at more than a jog for 90 mins.

I think BB spotted the obvious fitness problems right away so hopefully he along with Fenlon will get it sorted and then we will start to move right up the league.

To me there is not a team outwith the old firm that we should not be able to beat every week, the only thing that seperates us from them is they are fitter, hungrier and want to win more than us. This can be easily remedied without the need for massive squad changes.

And for some reason less fragile of state of mind than our lot, who seem to fold and lose all energy and belief at the slightest thing.

If Fenlon can improve fitness, mental strength and get them enjoying their game again, thats got to be a big improvement.

If he could get the RB and Centre Back positions sorted then that would be a good place to start. :agree:

blackpoolhibs
01-12-2011, 10:57 AM
I don't agree, I think that current squad are good enough but appear poorly motivated and severely lacking in fitness and this gives the appearance of them being poor.

To me the situation that we are in is totally down to the manager/coaches and the mindset we have allowed to develop at the club.
The club has been heading on this path since the days of Mowbray but he got away with it because of we had a really talented bunch of players that had just come out of the youth ranks.

We have seen recently with the likes of Wotherspoon, Booth and Hanlon that they look fit and strong coming out of the youth team but give them a year hanging about with the first team and they can barely run at more than a jog for 90 mins.

I think BB spotted the obvious fitness problems right away so hopefully he along with Fenlon will get it sorted and then we will start to move right up the league.

To me there is not a team outwith the old firm that we should not be able to beat every week, the only thing that seperates us from them is they are fitter, hungrier and want to win more than us. This can be easily remedied without the need for massive squad changes.

I have to say i practically disagree with nearly all that. I think we have poor players, certainly nowhere near good enough for a team of Hibs standing in the game.

I dont know anything about how motivated these players are, but those 3 players you mention, Wotherspoon Booth and Hanlon all look fit enough when playing for Scotland 21s, yet you think they lose that fitness when playing for Hibs?

Personally i dont think fitness is much of a problem, yes all players could probably get a little fitter, i include all teams in the SPL.

Why i think they look unfit is they are as a team not very good, and have to do a lot of chasing around for the ball. We get passed off the park regularly by Motherwell and Kilmarnock, those teams are much better than us technically, and have us chasing shadows.

This makes us look unfit imo. Calderclown said there was nothing wrong with fitness, Brown and Fenlon coming in and saying we will work them harder is what all new managers say when coming to a new club. Hard work and application from top to bottom, listen to whoever gets the Sunderland job, i'd put my last penny on whoever gets that job saying the same thing.

Good players normally get better results than bad ones, thats why imo we are currently sitting where we are in this league.

Iain G
01-12-2011, 11:00 AM
I have to say i practically disagree with nearly all that. I think we have poor players, certainly nowhere near good enough for a team of Hibs standing in the game.

I dont know anything about how motivated these players are, but those 3 players you mention, Wotherspoon Booth and Hanlon all look fit enough when playing for Scotland 21s, yet you think they lose that fitness when playing for Hibs?

Personally i dont think fitness is much of a problem, yes all players could probably get a little fitter, i include all teams in the SPL.

Why i think they look unfit is they are as a team not very good, and have to do a lot of chasing around for the ball. We get passed off the park regularly by Motherwell and Kilmarnock, those teams are much better than us technically, and have us chasing shadows.

This makes us look unfit imo. Calderclown said there was nothing wrong with fitness, Brown and Fenlon coming in and saying we will work them harder is what all new managers say when coming to a new club. Hard work and application from top to bottom, listen to whoever gets the Sunderland job, i'd put my last penny on whoever gets that job saying the same thing.

Good players normally get better results than bad ones, thats why imo we are currently sitting where we are in this league.

Only if the manager has some idea how to utilise and motivate his players of course. I think Calderwood did have an eye for a decent player, I just don't think he could get the best out of them, lets wait and see what Fenlon does with them, of course if we win anything it will all be "he did it with Calderwood's team..." :devil:

blackpoolhibs
01-12-2011, 11:02 AM
Only if the manager has some idea how to utilise and motivate his players of course. I think Calderwood did have an eye for a decent player, I just don't think he could get the best out of them, lets wait and see what Fenlon does with them, of course if we win anything it will all be "he did it with Calderwood's team..." :devil:

Now thats funny. :greengrin

calumb
01-12-2011, 11:23 AM
I have to say i practically disagree with nearly all that. I think we have poor players, certainly nowhere near good enough for a team of Hibs standing in the game.

I dont know anything about how motivated these players are, but those 3 players you mention, Wotherspoon Booth and Hanlon all look fit enough when playing for Scotland 21s, yet you think they lose that fitness when playing for Hibs?

Personally i dont think fitness is much of a problem, yes all players could probably get a little fitter, i include all teams in the SPL.

Why i think they look unfit is they are as a team not very good, and have to do a lot of chasing around for the ball. We get passed off the park regularly by Motherwell and Kilmarnock, those teams are much better than us technically, and have us chasing shadows.

This makes us look unfit imo. Calderclown said there was nothing wrong with fitness, Brown and Fenlon coming in and saying we will work them harder is what all new managers say when coming to a new club. Hard work and application from top to bottom, listen to whoever gets the Sunderland job, i'd put my last penny on whoever gets that job saying the same thing.

Good players normally get better results than bad ones, thats why imo we are currently sitting where we are in this league.


we get passed off the park because we as the match wears on the midfield especially become more and more static, we end up chasing shadows because we are too slow to get into positions to compete for the ball.

The derby at tynecastle was a perfect example of this, the yams knew that if they hit quick balls into the corners and then whipped crosses back into the penalty area that eventually the Hibs midfield would fail to track the late runners into the box, which is how they scored both goals.

I watched both the u-21 games and despite what was said on here i thought Wotherspoon played just as he does for Hibs, he was one paced and struggled for most of the match to support the forwards when attacking and the defence when defending and i for one are happy that they put him back to right back as he has less of the pitch he needs to run on.

ScottB
01-12-2011, 11:31 AM
I have to say i practically disagree with nearly all that. I think we have poor players, certainly nowhere near good enough for a team of Hibs standing in the game.

I dont know anything about how motivated these players are, but those 3 players you mention, Wotherspoon Booth and Hanlon all look fit enough when playing for Scotland 21s, yet you think they lose that fitness when playing for Hibs?

Personally i dont think fitness is much of a problem, yes all players could probably get a little fitter, i include all teams in the SPL.

Why i think they look unfit is they are as a team not very good, and have to do a lot of chasing around for the ball. We get passed off the park regularly by Motherwell and Kilmarnock, those teams are much better than us technically, and have us chasing shadows.

This makes us look unfit imo. Calderclown said there was nothing wrong with fitness, Brown and Fenlon coming in and saying we will work them harder is what all new managers say when coming to a new club. Hard work and application from top to bottom, listen to whoever gets the Sunderland job, i'd put my last penny on whoever gets that job saying the same thing.

Good players normally get better results than bad ones, thats why imo we are currently sitting where we are in this league.

The Scotland side presumably has a good team spirit, belief and don't get booed at the slightest mistake.

Our team has no belief, no spirit and no fight. Consequently large sections of the support don't feel they are trying and get on their backs for everything, further compounding the problem.

J-C
01-12-2011, 11:34 AM
The constant turnaround in managers hasn't helped, with each new one we gat a new squad, getting rid of players on the cheap to make way for new ones, all this leaves less and less money to buy players as compo for most and a manger has to be found. We need stability and a manger who will be here for more than 1 season, the players here at the moment on paper aren't any worse than the rest outwith the OF, Osbourne/Agogo/Sodje all with good experience in Championship/Div 1, Palsson/Thornhill good young players from decent clubs and a good number of young Scottish players playing regularly at U21 international level. I personally think discipline has bee very poor at ER and has been since Mixu/Yogi era's, this needs to be adressed and fines etc should be introduced to any player breaking midweek drinking curfews. Motivation also seems to be a large part of the problem, a manager who obviously wasn't wanting to be here and indiscipline doesn't make for a good bonding between players, the negativity at ER has been very obvious for months and doesn't help, this was also shown on the terraces where players were getting pelters, not just this year but also last(Nish).

joe_hfc
01-12-2011, 11:39 AM
Im sure Calderwood, Hughes, and Collins said the same when they first came did they not? In fact, doesn't every manager say the same to the press when they come in to a club which is underachieving? Standerd practice IMO - he would get slated if he never took that stance.

blackpoolhibs
01-12-2011, 11:56 AM
we get passed off the park because we as the match wears on the midfield especially become more and more static, we end up chasing shadows because we are too slow to get into positions to compete for the ball.

Disagree, We were passed off the park against Killie from the 1st minute, not as the match wore on???? We are never the team on the front foot. We are mostly set up with a 4-5-1 formation with a centre forward who cant hold the ball up, so we lose possession and have to try and get it again.
The midfield cant pass, so we lose the ball again. Our defenders are slow, they are poor on the ball, we lose it and have to fight to get it back again. We are a poor side?

The derby at tynecastle was a perfect example of this, the yams knew that if they hit quick balls into the corners and then whipped crosses back into the penalty area that eventually the Hibs midfield would fail to track the late runners into the box, which is how they scored both goals.

Any team who puts the ball into the corners will cause us trouble, have you seen how slow our defence is? They are the main problem at Hibs, our defence are individually and as a team bloody awful. Slow cumbersome and poor ball players, whatever 4 we pick.

There is a huge gap from defence to attack, as the back 4 sit too deep because of their lack of pace, being fitter wont make them quicker. And thats why our midfield cant keep up with runners over 90 minutes. They are having to cover much larger distances than a team who have quicker defenders, who can squeeze the game by playing further up the park.

I'm not saying our midfielders are that good, far from it, but when they are chasing folk up front and at the back, it takes its toll. We just dont keep the ball well enough, especially up front, and thats down to lack of ability imo.

I watched both the u-21 games and despite what was said on here i thought Wotherspoon played just as he does for Hibs, he was one paced and struggled for most of the match to support the forwards when attacking and the defence when defending and i for one are happy that they put him back to right back as he has less of the pitch he needs to run on.

I disagree again, Hanlon and Wotherspoon especially had very good games, in fact this board nearly to a man said so.

Bohemian_Hibee
01-12-2011, 12:10 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bayly

For anyone who doubts that Fenlon has the balls to get rid of a player, Robert 'Boccer' Bayly had a finger-in-the-face argument with Nutsy after being substituted in the Bohs v Rovers game in early October. He had left the club within a week.

Allant1981
01-12-2011, 12:35 PM
If i was the gaffer i'd be getting rid of a few. Hart, o'hanlon, stevenson, galbraith, scott. I know murray gives his all in games but id consider letting him go at the end of the season also.

Seveno
01-12-2011, 12:39 PM
I think that the situation can be summed up by Victor Palsson.

When he first arrived, he looked an outstanding prospect with an ability to tackle, play long cross field passes and work hard.

For whatever reason, laziness, indiscipline, lack of motivation, playing out of position, loss of confidence (take your pick) he is regarded by some as being 'not Hibs standard'.

If PF can sort out Victor, he will be well on the road to sorting out our Club.

BEEJ
01-12-2011, 12:53 PM
I think that the situation can be summed up by Victor Palsson.

When he first arrived, he looked an outstanding prospect with an ability to tackle, play long cross field passes and work hard.

For whatever reason, laziness, indiscipline, lack of motivation, playing out of position, loss of confidence (take your pick) he is regarded by some as being 'not Hibs standard'.

If PF can sort out Victor, he will be well on the road to sorting out our Club.
:agree:

Whatever the East Mains malaise is, it seems to spread rapidly to the new signings.

IWasThere2016
01-12-2011, 12:59 PM
I have to say i practically disagree with nearly all that. I think we have poor players, certainly nowhere near good enough for a team of Hibs standing in the game.

I dont know anything about how motivated these players are, but those 3 players you mention, Wotherspoon Booth and Hanlon all look fit enough when playing for Scotland 21s, yet you think they lose that fitness when playing for Hibs?

Personally i dont think fitness is much of a problem, yes all players could probably get a little fitter, i include all teams in the SPL.

Why i think they look unfit is they are as a team not very good, and have to do a lot of chasing around for the ball. We get passed off the park regularly by Motherwell and Kilmarnock, those teams are much better than us technically, and have us chasing shadows.

A lack of confidence is another factor that inhibits players. Otherwise I agree with that said above.

Golden Bear
01-12-2011, 01:12 PM
A lack of confidence is another factor that inhibits players. Otherwise I agree with that said above.

:agree:


And I'll add lack of movement throughout the team. We're not passing the ball into spaces for players to run on to. Players are static when they receive the ball and generally unwilling to take any risks.

What I don't understand is that the shortfalls are easy to see but lessons are not learnt and the same weaknesses materialise on a week to week basis.

Whether that is the fault of the players or the coaching staff is open to debate.

sahib
01-12-2011, 01:17 PM
"Shape up or ship out" - We have a shipped out dozens of in recent years. There is nothing new there.

"East Mains malaise" - Hibs have had crap teams many times before the developement of East mains.

IWasThere2016
01-12-2011, 01:21 PM
:agree:


And I'll add lack of movement throughout the team. We're not passing the ball into spaces for players to run on to. Players are static when they receive the ball and generally unwilling to take any risks.

What I don't understand is that the shortfalls are easy to see but lessons are not learnt and the same weaknesses materialise on a week to week basis.

Whether that is the fault of the players or the coaching staff is open to debate.

Yup - a lack of confidence is paralysing. Our 'support' of the players - at times - is not helpful.

WindyMiller
01-12-2011, 02:17 PM
Yup - a lack of confidence is paralysing. Our 'support' of the players - at times - is ABUSIVE.

EDITED.

:aok:

Sergeant Hibs
01-12-2011, 03:24 PM
I dont understand why some people are saying rebuilding doesnt work it worked at Man City. It worked at Chelsea I know they had millions to spend but with a manager bringing in players that are good instead of dross like CC brought in it'll work IMO we should build the team around Stack, Booth, Hanlon, Ozzy and GOC with the rest of the half decent players in the team in the squad and bench like Galbraith and Ivan and the dross punted like Palsson and O'Hanlon and the blanks can be filled with players that Nutsy brings in who will hopefully fight for the jersey

Paisley Hibby
01-12-2011, 03:55 PM
I don't agree, I think that current squad are good enough but appear poorly motivated and severely lacking in fitness and this gives the appearance of them being poor.

To me the situation that we are in is totally down to the manager/coaches and the mindset we have allowed to develop at the club.
The club has been heading on this path since the days of Mowbray but he got away with it because of we had a really talented bunch of players that had just come out of the youth ranks.

We have seen recently with the likes of Wotherspoon, Booth and Hanlon that they look fit and strong coming out of the youth team but give them a year hanging about with the first team and they can barely run at more than a jog for 90 mins.

I think BB spotted the obvious fitness problems right away so hopefully he along with Fenlon will get it sorted and then we will start to move right up the league.

To me there is not a team outwith the old firm that we should not be able to beat every week, the only thing that seperates us from them is they are fitter, hungrier and want to win more than us. This can be easily remedied without the need for massive squad changes.

Agree with this. Wotherspoon and Hanlon looked good playing for Scotland against Holland a couple of weeks ago so they are not bad players.

Aldo
01-12-2011, 03:56 PM
I think

happiehibbie
01-12-2011, 03:58 PM
Footbal is all about opinions you mention some players the first one Stack (best keeper we have) but has lost us at least 6 goals by paming the ball across the goal mouth.

I think we do need a clear out GOC has went right of the boil he is our best player but has been rank the last few weeks.

I personally would not miss one player from our Squad

what i do sence is a better future with PF BB as i am so close to not going back this season :flag:

Sergeant Hibs
01-12-2011, 04:00 PM
Footbal is all about opinions you mention some players the first one Stack (best keeper we have) but has lost us at least 6 goals by paming the ball across the goal mouth.

I think we do need a clear out GOC has went right of the boil he is our best player but has been rank the last few weeks.

I personally would not miss one player from our Squad

what i do sence is a better future with PF BB as i am so close to not going back this season :flag:

if it hadn't been for GOC we'd be bottom of the league

Aldo
01-12-2011, 04:08 PM
(ignore the above... I think right... Bloody phone)

Ok lots of debate about this and that.. Confidence for me being the biggest factor. You make a mistake when your playing well.. ie misplaced pass and the fans go oohh!! Make a mistake when the team plays bad and it's ... €%#^%## abuse left right and centre.

So the ball becomes like a hot tattie as no one wants it and that in turn forces passes (bad ones at that) which creates more abuse.

It is however the managers job to remedy this and bring players to the club that can play under some sort of pressure... This of course has not been the case with the last few managers.

This however is the job that these guys do and who are getting paid (by folk pumping their hard earned cash into the club) well. So when they show no passion it gets on our nerves and the abuse becomes more evident.

Fenlon has a massive task.. CC said he had to rebuild... FFS the guy didn't ebb lay the first foundation. We have gone about 20 steps back at the dross he bought.

I am more than certain there will be a few twitching ***** at EM re whose Gonnae get punted.

I will say this that Fenlon will bring in a few unknown players, probably previous players and ones he can trust. I font care who we sign but I know this I don't want anymore wage thieves as it's bad for the morale of the rest of the team .

PF gets my full support and I may even buy a half season ticket?

BEEJ
01-12-2011, 05:18 PM
"East Mains malaise" - Hibs have had crap teams many times before the developement of East mains.
My comment was not a comparison of pre and post East Mains training regimes.

'East Mains' is where our players spend most of their working time in development and training. I used the name as a descriptor, not to make a dig at the training facility.

Baldy Foghorn
01-12-2011, 05:26 PM
I am really impressed with Fenlon's interviews so far to date, and think he might just be the guy to make the squad more professional and fitter etc, does not come across like he will tolerate any slackers........

calumb
01-12-2011, 05:49 PM
I am really impressed with Fenlon's interviews so far to date, and think he might just be the guy to make the squad more professional and fitter etc, does not come across like he will tolerate any slackers........

according to experts on here we are perfectly fit and have no slackers we just have crap players.

Baldy Foghorn
01-12-2011, 05:50 PM
according to experts on here we are perfectly fit and have no slackers we just have crap players.

Our team looks like anything but fit......

blackpoolhibs
01-12-2011, 05:57 PM
Our team looks like anything but fit......

I dont agree Brockie, i cant imagine for one minute we dont train every bit as much as all SPL clubs.

As i keep saying, if you chase around after a ball all day, you will get a lot more tired than those passing it around you.

If anyone can give me any facts on just how much more these other clubs are training harder than us, then i'm willing to be proved wrong, but imo bad players are just not as good as better ones, and better players look fitter because they are better at doing the basics.

Baldy Foghorn
01-12-2011, 06:26 PM
I dont agree Brockie, i cant imagine for one minute we dont train every bit as much as all SPL clubs.

As i keep saying, if you chase around after a ball all day, you will get a lot more tired than those passing it around you.

If anyone can give me any facts on just how much more these other clubs are training harder than us, then i'm willing to be proved wrong, but imo bad players are just not as good as better ones, and better players look fitter because they are better at doing the basics.

Some of our players are blowing out their erchies after half an hour..... As you say it can be tiring chasing shadows, but as you say if we could do the basics correctly, and not keep giving ball away cheaply, then we might just see a difference

NOLA
01-12-2011, 10:02 PM
Hard Training = Easy War!

AlbertK86
01-12-2011, 10:10 PM
Footbal is all about opinions you mention some players the first one Stack (best keeper we have) but has lost us at least 6 goals by paming the ball across the goal mouth.

I think we do need a clear out GOC has went right of the boil he is our best player but has been rank the last few weeks.

I personally would not miss one player from our Squad

what i do sence is a better future with PF BB as i am so close to not going back this season :flag:


and another 6 by letting the ball go accross his six yard box high and low. Rooted to the spot far too often .... defenders not wanting to touch it in there unless it shoots in for an OG... as Hanlon did.

Good shot stopper but cost us dearly as other managers/teams have sussed him.

All round we are too easy to read. Attack down the left of our defence where we are so slow and put it accross the six yard box ... goal.... too many times this season.

Lets hope Pat gets this sorted early doors

NORTHERNHIBBY
01-12-2011, 10:14 PM
Get yourself fit or get yourself to f***. Minimum requirement of a professional player, and if that showing at Perth is any yardstick, some players have not been under any pressure to deliver the minimum.

NOLA
01-12-2011, 11:26 PM
The Scotland side presumably has a good team spirit, belief and don't get booed at the slightest mistake.

Our team has no belief, no spirit and no fight. Consequently large sections of the support don't feel they are trying and get on their backs for everything, further compounding the problem.
thats what i was thinking, good players play well in a good team, good players get dragged down by poor players in a poor team

snooky
02-12-2011, 12:23 AM
I am really impressed with Fenlon's interviews so far to date, and think he might just be the guy to make the squad more professional and fitter etc, does not come across like he will tolerate any slackers........

Neither did JC, Yogi or Mixu for that matter. CC...hmmm

JimBHibees
02-12-2011, 12:11 PM
Fenlon needs to sort out the basics by being organised, fit and motivated to do well. I think a half decent manager should be able to do this relatively quickly. I agree we have some poor players but also think that there is genuine ability also and that a mix of getting more out of the current squad with adding 3 or 4 fresh players is the way to go.

Captain Trips
02-12-2011, 12:24 PM
Fenlon needs to sort out the basics by being organised, fit and motivated to do well. I think a half decent manager should be able to do this relatively quickly. I agree we have some poor players but also think that there is genuine ability also and that a mix of getting more out of the current squad with adding 3 or 4 fresh players is the way to go.

I agree with some of that, the problem when CC took over is he got away with the it isnt his players excuse for 3/4 of a season of which he did nothing at all to suggest he was capable of turning it. When he came in I knew we had a poor team but I still believed a decent manager could show some sort of difference even small.

For me it is same for Pat, I am not interested who's players they are he has to show some sort of improvement during this season.

JimBHibees
02-12-2011, 01:24 PM
I agree with some of that, the problem when CC took over is he got away with the it isnt his players excuse for 3/4 of a season of which he did nothing at all to suggest he was capable of turning it. When he came in I knew we had a poor team but I still believed a decent manager could show some sort of difference even small.

For me it is same for Pat, I am not interested who's players they are he has to show some sort of improvement during this season.

Agree that was a massive failure of CC. Most new managers coming in gee up all the players as the guys usually subs think they have a chance to impress and get into the team and the ones in position know this also and fight to keep their place.

mjhibby
02-12-2011, 04:31 PM
I have to say i practically disagree with nearly all that. I think we have poor players, certainly nowhere near good enough for a team of Hibs standing in the game.

I dont know anything about how motivated these players are, but those 3 players you mention, Wotherspoon Booth and Hanlon all look fit enough when playing for Scotland 21s, yet you think they lose that fitness when playing for Hibs?

Personally i dont think fitness is much of a problem, yes all players could probably get a little fitter, i include all teams in the SPL.

Why i think they look unfit is they are as a team not very good, and have to do a lot of chasing around for the ball. We get passed off the park regularly by Motherwell and Kilmarnock, those teams are much better than us technically, and have us chasing shadows.

This makes us look unfit imo. Calderclown said there was nothing wrong with fitness, Brown and Fenlon coming in and saying we will work them harder is what all new managers say when coming to a new club. Hard work and application from top to bottom, listen to whoever gets the Sunderland job, i'd put my last penny on whoever gets that job saying the same thing.

Good players normally get better results than bad ones, thats why imo we are currently sitting where we are in this league.

Pat stanton was saying on sportsound on tuesday that he couldnt believe the poor standard of player at er.There were far better players available than we signed but calderwood went for players he knew a lot of whom are poor to say the least.Fenlon will have to get more from them but a new lb and ch would be a start in january and ive no doubt there are decent players in ireland who can do us a turn.Should be an interesting 6-8 weeks until the end of the transfer window.

blackpoolhibs
02-12-2011, 04:35 PM
Pat stanton was saying on sportsound on tuesday that he couldnt believe the poor standard of player at er.There were far better players available than we signed but calderwood went for players he knew a lot of whom are poor to say the least.Fenlon will have to get more from them but a new lb and ch would be a start in january and ive no doubt there are decent players in ireland who can do us a turn.Should be an interesting 6-8 weeks until the end of the transfer window.

Well thats good enough for me, i happen to agree with him.:boo hoo: