Scott Brown [Archive] - hibs.net Messageboard

bingo70

30-11-2011, 07:04 PM

This.

Totally stagnated at Celtic. Looked a very good prospect at Hibs but the more I see of him the more I see the snarling and effort is covering up a pretty limited footballer.

Another player that JC improved despite his apparent poor man management skills.

I thought the time was probably right for him to move on but it was a shame as he was just learning how to boss games when he joined Celtic and he's never been as good since.

IWasThere2016

30-11-2011, 07:07 PM

Not too different from what he's on now and possibly less by the time you add on bonuses as he'll get less appearances, win fewer matches and definately win less trophies, all of which i assume he'll get good bonuses for now.

I doubt he'll be offered more at ra Cellic - have you no seen the world's greatest masquerading as green seats at Darkheid? They've as many empties as us.

bingo70

30-11-2011, 07:10 PM

I doubt he'll be offered more at ra Cellic - have you no seen the world's greatest masquerading as green seats at Darkheid? They've as many empties as us.

I'm talking about what he's on now and it's not a million miles off £30k p/week, as you say though, good chance that'll be going down in his next contract offer so stick on he'll be away down south.

Pretty Boy

30-11-2011, 07:10 PM

Another player that JC improved despite his apparent poor man management skills.

I thought the time was probably right for him to move on but it was a shame as he was just learning how to boss games when he joined Celtic and he's never been as good since.

The option was on the table for him to go to the then Premier League side Reading on the same money as at Celtic. Hibs would have done business with them also. Both he and his agent had made up their mind it was Glasgow or nowhere.

He made his bed, he can lie in it.

johnbc70

30-11-2011, 07:16 PM

He went for the easy option when leaving Hibs for Celtic and I am sure he will stay at Celtic again. Seems to lack a bit of ambition which is a shame as he should be wanting to test himself against better players. When was the last time he had a surging run from defence like when he set up Ivan at Ibrox? Just runs around now chasing the ball.

stubru59

30-11-2011, 07:57 PM

£4.5 m for a player who is no more than decent on a good day. Grand larceny.

Aldo

30-11-2011, 08:27 PM

£4.5 m for a player who is no more than decent on a good day. Grand larceny.

Dick 'Petrie' Turpin was seen riding his trusty stead back to Embra, wearing his mask, and was seen smiling after conning the mighty Smellic out of 4 and a half gold pieces for a dud!!!

Rodders is defo a modern day highwayman after getting that much dish for Brown. I did however think it was mire than that... Appearances etc??

Dashing Bob S

30-11-2011, 08:32 PM

Petrie not only flogged him for a decent price must have had somebody on the staff at Smeltic putting rhyponol in his tea - its the only way you can explain his backward, lackluster performances. That boy should have flown south while the going was good. Scotland, especially the dull OF bunfight, definitely kills.

PISTOL1875

30-11-2011, 08:38 PM

I doubt he'll be offered more at ra Cellic - have you no seen the world's greatest masquerading as green seats at Darkheid? They've as many empties as us.

To be fair to them , the game did start at 6pm..........

silverhibee

30-11-2011, 09:12 PM

I doubt he'll be offered more at ra Cellic - have you no seen the world's greatest masquerading as green seats at Darkheid? They've as many empties as us.

Seemingly he has been offered £35,000 a week from celtc.

Barney McGrew

01-12-2011, 05:58 AM

You'd need to be off your heid to give Scott Brown 30k plus a week.

In the Premiership these days that's loose change.

If he has any desire whatsoever to improve as a footballer, he needs to leave Celtc. That can only be a good thing for the national team too.

Winston Ingram

01-12-2011, 06:08 AM

Do yourself a favour son and get to the Premiership if the opportunity presents itself 'from tomorrow'. Celtic are murder. What a waste.

Big decision for Brown.

He can continue to deteriorate there or try and save his career:agree:

Winston Ingram

01-12-2011, 06:11 AM

Another player that JC improved despite his apparent poor man management skills.

I thought the time was probably right for him to move on but it was a shame as he was just learning how to boss games when he joined Celtic and he's never been as good since.

Did he?

I thought Brown just carried on the way he was going for the short time that Collins managed him. I also have it on good authority that Brown thought he was an erse

bingo70

01-12-2011, 06:36 AM

Did he?I thought Brown just carried on the way he was going for the short time that Collins managed him. I also have it on good authority that Brown thought he was an erseNo, I definately think he improved under jc.I'm not really bothered if brown thought he was an erse, I think if jc was pushing them hard and trying to raise their standards that's always a risk, he wasn't their to be liked

calumhibee1

01-12-2011, 07:45 AM

nonshinyfinish

01-12-2011, 07:49 AM

blackpoolhibs

01-12-2011, 08:30 AM

The people who are laughing at the fact we got £4.5m for him need to remember just how good he was when he was at us. The Scott Brown that played for us was well worth the £4.5m, we certainly never robbed Celtic.

:agree: celtc have tried and failed miserably trying to mould him into a neil lemon type player. That and him obviously being on the weights, has all but ruined a fantastic prospect.

He used to be a player who would drive at teams, and run in front of the forwards making tremendous runs. He also could tackle, track back and in general looked as if he would become an all round fantastic player, in fact he was one.

I also think he should get himself down england, and try and get back to doing what he was good at.

hibsbollah

01-12-2011, 08:43 AM

Stevie Reid

01-12-2011, 08:56 AM

The people who are laughing at the fact we got £4.5m for him need to remember just how good he was when he was at us. The Scott Brown that played for us was well worth the £4.5m, we certainly never robbed Celtic.

:agree: Some of the revisionism regarding Brown's time at Hibs is startling.

:agree: celtc have tried and failed miserably trying to mould him into a neil lemon type player. That and him obviously being on the weights, has all but ruined a fantastic prospect.

He used to be a player who would drive at teams, and run in front of the forwards making tremendous runs. He also could tackle, track back and in general looked as if he would become an all round fantastic player, in fact he was one.

I also think he should get himself down england, and try and get back to doing what he was good at.

This. Scott Brown was without a doubt one of the best players weve seen play at ER in the last 30 years.

All correct guys, some classic Hibs.netting going on here.

When Scott Brown left Hibs he had all the attributes to be a Scottish Roy Keane - he never had much technique or finesse about him (to this day he still has a pretty poor first touch and isn't a great passer of the ball), but could influence games with his energy, will to win and shear determination to cover every blade of grass and be as much of a force defensively as he was in attack; a true box to box midfielder.

For some reason Strachan saw fit to have him sit in in front of the back four and stifle absolutely everything that was good about him. Perhaps a move to be made when he was past his peak at 30/31, not aged 22. A real waste.

stubru59

01-12-2011, 09:06 AM

The dig at Scott Brown's worth is not based what he did with us. It's based on how he's performed and progressed since he left.

In that light, we sold them a pup.

calumhibee1

01-12-2011, 09:26 AM

The dig at Scott Brown's worth is not based what he did with us. It's based on how he's performed and progressed since he left.

In that light, we sold them a pup.

We didn't, we sold them a very good player. They turned him into what he is now.

blackpoolhibs

01-12-2011, 09:42 AM

We didn't, we sold them a very good player. They turned him into what he is now.

:agree:They took a very talented player and instead of utilising that talent, tried to change him into something he's not.

A very strange decision if you ask me?:confused:

Spudster

01-12-2011, 10:10 AM

All correct guys, some classic Hibs.netting going on here.

When Scott Brown left Hibs he had all the attributes to be a Scottish Roy Keane - he never had much technique or finesse about him (to this day he still has a pretty poor first touch and isn't a great passer of the ball), but could influence games with his energy, will to win and shear determination to cover every blade of grass and be as much of a force defensively as he was in attack; a true box to box midfielder.

For some reason Strachan saw fit to have him sit in in front of the back four and stifle absolutely everything that was good about him. Perhaps a move to be made when he was past his peak at 30/31, not aged 22. A real waste.

I'd disagree with that. He used to be possibly the most exciting player in the SPL (When the SPL wasn't that bad) and used to feature on Soccer AM showboating alot. To label him a Roy Keane would suggest he's nothing but a hardman.

Did Spurs or Newcastle not offer something ridiculous like £10M to Celtic before he even played a competitive game for them? The first few months they were all raving on about him being Scotland's Gazza, WTF happened :confused:

Stevie Reid

01-12-2011, 10:18 AM

I'd disagree with that. He used to be possibly the most exciting player in the SPL (When the SPL wasn't that bad) and used to feature on Soccer AM showboating alot. To label him a Roy Keane would suggest he's nothing but a hardman.

Did Spurs or Newcastle not offer something ridiculous like £10M to Celtic before he even played a competitive game for them? The first few months they were all raving on about him being Scotland's Gazza, WTF happened :confused:

Eh? Roy Keane was an unbelievable player - there was barely another player in the world who could do what Keane did in his peak at Man Utd (where he played for 12 years, incidentally).

Comparing Brown to Keane at one point looked a valid comparison, but Brown couldn't lace Keane's boots these days.

Posh Swanny

01-12-2011, 10:27 AM

I'd disagree with that. He used to be possibly the most exciting player in the SPL (When the SPL wasn't that bad) and used to feature on Soccer AM showboating alot. To label him a Roy Keane would suggest he's nothing but a hardman.

I was thinking the same. Steven Gerrard is as close as I can think of to what Scott Brown should have been. And would go so far as saying that Brown could have been even better. A dynamic, powerful, skillfull, hard, dirty, diving ******** of a player who could and perhaps should have taken the Premier League by storm. Christ, if Charlie Adam can go down there and look decent...

Stevie Reid

01-12-2011, 10:30 AM

I was thinking the same. Steven Gerrard is as close as I can think of to what Scott Brown should have been. And would go so far as saying that Brown could have been even better. A dynamic, powerful, skillfull, hard, dirty, diving ******** of a player who could and perhaps should have taken the Premier League by storm. Christ, if Charlie Adam can go down there and look decent...

I think that's a fair comparison to a point, but Brown can't strike a ball like Gerrard can.

Gerrard's scoring record from midfield is also excellent, Brown's is not.

stubru59

01-12-2011, 10:31 AM

We didn't, we sold them a very good player. They turned him into what he is now.

Yes, I do recall his influence when we played the likes of Inverness.

HibeeMG

01-12-2011, 10:40 AM

On a related subject, I see that Celtic are sniffing around Jordan Rhodes.

I really hope that the lad stays down south as I think he'll become a superstar down there. If he moves up here he's going to get swallowed up just like Broony has.

marinello59

01-12-2011, 10:58 AM

:agree:They took a very talented player and instead of utilising that talent, tried to change him into something he's not.

A very strange decision if you ask me?:confused:

They took raw talent and failed to develop it. He would have learned so much more by playing against better players down South than he was ever going to do at Celtic against the same players he had always faced. As good as he was for us he was nowhere near the finished product. I cite his performance in an Under21 match against France where compared to the French lads his deficiencies were laid bare. He could and should have been a great player but settled for the easy money. I seem to recall Spurs expressed an interest in him at one point and I felt at the time it could have been a perfect fit for him.

blackpoolhibs

01-12-2011, 11:13 AM

They took raw talent and failed to develop it. He would have learned so much more by playing against better players down South than he was ever going to do at Celtic against the same players he had always faced. As good as he was for us he was nowhere near the finished product. I cite his performance in an Under21 match against France where compared to the French lads his deficiencies were laid bare. He could and should have been a great player but settled for the easy money. I seem to recall Spurs expressed an interest in him at one point and I felt at the time it could have been a perfect fit for him.

Yip :agree: he had some fantastic qualities that we all could see, yet as soon as he went along the M8 it seems they wanted him to be something different?

I never saw the french game, but i have seen him play for the full international side most games, and he looks a better player in that team now, getting better each game.

I remember thinking at the time he should have gone south, but he does seem to have settled for the money and the easy life. If he wants a better challenge, then he just has to move to England this time. I'm sure we will all get to see just how much he wants a challenge when he signs his next contract.

Skanko79

01-12-2011, 11:16 AM

I think Broonie would have benefited far more by staying with us for another season, maybe 2 then heading down south. I now think he has spent to much wasted time at Celtic and has missed the boat to develop into the smashing player he could have been. Still a good player on his day and a cracking lad. Hope he proves me wrong.

One Day Soon

01-12-2011, 12:15 PM

I'd just like to helpfully add this: Scott Brown - Legend

Dunbar Hibee

01-12-2011, 01:46 PM

Kammy1875

01-12-2011, 01:50 PM

I really really hope Scotty leaves Celtc for nothing :agree:

He needs to move to save his career.

blackpoolhibs

01-12-2011, 03:45 PM

He is without doubt imo the best talent to come out of easter road in many years, i think his next move will decide just how good he can become?

Personally i dont like him for the way he acted during his and katie's wee spat, but he is and still could be a very good player for Scotland.

KeithTheHibby

01-12-2011, 04:17 PM

Dick 'Petrie' Turpin was seen riding his trusty stead back to Embra, wearing his mask, and was seen smiling after conning the mighty Smellic out of 4 and a half gold pieces for a dud!!!

Rodders is defo a modern day highwayman after getting that much dish for Brown. I did however think it was mire than that... Appearances etc??

Some bellend actually pulled Rodders up and gave him a hard time at the recent AGM about the sale of SB and KT...I thought of 6.5m reasons as to why it made great business sense!

Aldo

01-12-2011, 04:24 PM

Some bellend actually pulled Rodders up and gave him a hard time at the recent AGM about the sale of SB and KT...I thought of 6.5m reasons as to why it made great business sense!

Wouldn't surprise me TBH. That person was grasping at straws.

We got a superb fee fir Brown IMHO.

Kammy1875

01-12-2011, 04:26 PM

Wouldn't surprise me TBH. That person was grasping at straws.

We got a superb fee fir Brown IMHO.

Unfortunately like other transfer fees we don't see any of it used on the pitch.

DH1875

01-12-2011, 04:27 PM

Seemingly he has been offered £35,000 a week from celtc.

£26,000 basic so add on win bonus and app money and you could be right :agree:.

Spudster

01-12-2011, 04:34 PM

Eh? Roy Keane was an unbelievable player - there was barely another player in the world who could do what Keane did in his peak at Man Utd (where he played for 12 years, incidentally).

Comparing Brown to Keane at one point looked a valid comparison, but Brown couldn't lace Keane's boots these days.

I think if you were to list the 3 attributes or characteristics of each player.

Keane - Determined, Strong, Leader (not saying he want good just that he technically had little to offer IMO)
Brown (the version that left hibs) - Fast, Dribbling (especially at speed), Strong

Completely different types of player although Strachan done his best to make Brown like Keane and ruined a technically sound player.

johnrebus

01-12-2011, 05:01 PM

I think if you were to list the 3 attributes or characteristics of each player.

Keane - Determined, Strong, Leader (not saying he want good just that he technically had little to offer IMO)
Brown (the version that left hibs) - Fast, Dribbling (especially at speed), Strong

Completely different types of player although Strachan done his best to make Brown like Keane and ruined a technically sound player.

IMHO Scott Brown is not good enough to play in the Premiership. He has left it far too late. Will be lucky to get a decent Championship club.

silverhibee

01-12-2011, 07:47 PM

In the Premiership these days that's loose change.

If he has any desire whatsoever to improve as a footballer, he needs to leave Celtc. That can only be a good thing for the national team too.

He is happy and wants to stay at celtc.

jdships

01-12-2011, 07:52 PM

IMHO Scott Brown is not good enough to play in the Premiership. He has left it far too late. Will be lucky to get a decent Championship club.

I would agree totally with that !!
Personally don't think going to Celtic was a good long term career move.
If he had gone to a good Championship side those years ago he would almost certainly now be in Premiership.
" Hae ma doots " for him now :agree:

Eyrie

01-12-2011, 09:35 PM

Any young player moving to either of the Old Firm from another SPL club is missing the opportunity to better themselves. Even if they can get in the team rather than being on the bench, they are still playing in the same league and cups against the same opposition. If a youngster wants to better himself then he has to get a move to England.

Personally I don't care that Brown never fulfilled his potential - we cashed in at the right time and Celtic lost out, which suits me just fine.

jacomo

01-12-2011, 10:03 PM

The option was on the table for him to go to the then Premier League side Reading on the same money as at Celtic. Hibs would have done business with them also. Both he and his agent had made up their mind it was Glasgow or nowhere.

He made his bed, he can lie in it.

Different times. He didn't want to move away from his family at the time and that's totally understandable.

I find your bitterness towards Brown a little unwarranted. Still the record transfer between Scottish clubs - Scott did right by us in the end and we did right by him.

jacomo

01-12-2011, 10:07 PM

Seemingly he has been offered £35,000 a week from celtc.

If so that is an absolute monster pay offer. £1.8m a year! Where do Celtic get that from for one player??

Stevie Reid

02-12-2011, 10:33 AM

I think if you were to list the 3 attributes or characteristics of each player.

Keane - Determined, Strong, Leader (not saying he want good just that he technically had little to offer IMO)
Brown (the version that left hibs) - Fast, Dribbling (especially at speed), Strong

Completely different types of player although Strachan done his best to make Brown like Keane and ruined a technically sound player.

Strachan didn't try and make Brown like Keane, he knocked all the attributes that made Brown like Keane out of SB when he signed for Celtic.

You're also selling Roy Keane extremely short.

Andy74

02-12-2011, 10:39 AM

Look at any of the clips from the great Mowbray era results and Broony was leading the charge.

The cash we got was still pretty decent but he was an outstanding talent.

A bit like Palsson for us they seem to have knocked his natural game out of him and maybe a change of scene will help him.

That said he is probably learning more and more as a footballer being asked to play differently and if he can bring that together with what used to be his natural game he could be exceptional again wherever he plays.

JimBHibees

02-12-2011, 10:52 AM

IMHO Scott Brown is not good enough to play in the Premiership. He has left it far too late. Will be lucky to get a decent Championship club.

I think you overrate the EPL too much he is more than capable of playing in that league. To me there are alot of pretty average players that Brown could match or improve on. He would play every week for teams like WBA, Wigan, Sunderland etc.

patlowe

02-12-2011, 11:00 AM

I actually think there's a bit of revisionism going on on both sides here. Brown was a quality player at Hibs and I was sad to see him go but he, like the rest of that Hibs side, had long periods of inconsistency. The thing about Brown was that he showed up in the big games (eg, the Ibrox & Parkhead wins. Maybe not Tynie but then who ever did?) and had no fear about him in that regard. This is probably what made Celtic cough up the big bucks and rightly so.

johnrebus

02-12-2011, 11:04 AM

I think you overrate the EPL too much he is more than capable of playing in that league. To me there are alot of pretty average players that Brown could match or improve on. He would play every week for teams like WBA, Wigan, Sunderland etc.

Two of the three clubs you name are likely to be in the Championship next season.

Scott Brown is not even a stand out player - when fit - in the SPL these days.

No way is he good enough for the Premiership.

:cb

Wembley67

03-12-2011, 11:02 AM

Oh well, 3 year extension signed,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16016693.stm

Viva_Palmeiras

03-12-2011, 11:31 AM

Oh well, 3 year extension signed,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16016693.stm

See Brown and contracts ..... ;)

Kammy1875

03-12-2011, 12:33 PM

Oh well, career over and easy option taken. :rolleyes:

snooky

03-12-2011, 01:02 PM

What a waste :crazy:

weecounty hibby

03-12-2011, 04:20 PM

What a waste of a career. Talented but no ambition. Still, I suppose he will be a very rich man without having to try very hard. Wouldn't mind some of that myself.

greenlex

03-12-2011, 04:27 PM

Oh well, career over and easy option taken. :rolleyes:

Career over?:confused: when this deals done he will only be 29. Could still have three four years somewhere else.

NORTHERNHIBBY

03-12-2011, 04:31 PM

hibee92

03-12-2011, 04:47 PM

I'd just like to helpfully add this: Scott Brown - Legend

great player with us. but legend? naw. no one will be talking about his time with hibs in 40 years time..

SkintHibby

03-12-2011, 05:04 PM

the great Mowbray era

Bit OTT Andy, don't you think?

Good team but you're deluding yourself if you think it was more than that!:agree:

Shrekko

03-12-2011, 05:29 PM

A lot of people thought that Brown would kick on to another level at Darkheed what with " better players" around him but I don't think he is any better than when he left ER. I don't think he has been allowed to dominate games the way he did for us. The odd outstanding game for Celtc is what he would give us consistently. In a footiie sense, he is being hindered not helped by Celtc.

Are you saying he was outstanding for us consistently? He was a player of huge raw ability and potential but no way was he consistently outstanding for us- he varied from superb to being just niggly and frustrating. He did show up in a lot of big games to be fair.

I think he's roughly the same player that left. His mental ability and desire to be a big fish in a small pond is what's held him back -but that's just him!

hibsbollah

03-12-2011, 05:34 PM

Are you saying he was outstanding for us consistently? He was a player of huge raw ability and potential but no way was he consistently outstanding for us- he varied from superb to being just niggly and frustrating. He did show up in a lot of big games to be fair.I think he's roughly the same player that left. His mental ability and desire to be a big fish in a small pond is what's held him back -but that's just him!In the final half of his final season he was consistently outstanding...maybe two dozen games of just ripping the pish of anyone he came up against.Trying to paint Brown as in some way inconsistent for Hibs is just daft.

Shrekko

03-12-2011, 05:41 PM

In the final half of his final season he was consistently outstanding...maybe two dozen games of just ripping the pish of anyone he came up against.Trying to paint Brown as in some way inconsistent for Hibs is just daft.

Absolute garbage IMO. The final half of his huffy stroppy 'I cannae wait to leave' season?

He was brilliant against Dunfermline in the Cup twice, really good in the CIS final and fairly nondescript otherwise apart from a cracking performance against his future employers in the last game. If you can remind me of all his other amazing performances then please do.

He actually STARTED that season in brilliant form but then the nonsense began.

Having blind spots for players is fine, but saying he had 24 outstanding consecutive games is ridiculous.

silverhibee

03-12-2011, 05:55 PM

Career over?:confused: when this deals done he will only be 29. Could still have three four years somewhere else.

I think he will finish his career at celtc.

greenlex

03-12-2011, 05:59 PM

I think he will finish his career at celtc.

Possibly Silver but to say hs career is over in the next 3 years is plainly nuts.:confused:
He certainly has one more big contract/move in him at least.

weecounty hibby

03-12-2011, 06:20 PM

Possibly Silver but to say hs career is over in the next 3 years is plainly nuts.:confused:
He certainly has one more big contract/move in him at least.

Thats what I find sad about not just Brown but most of the young Scottish players nowadays. Their career is gauged more on big money moves and contracts rather than how they have performed at the highest level. Who do you think has had a better career, Billy Bremner at Leeds, a one club man during their succesful period or Paul McStay, one club man with Celtic? Unfortunately we are brreding more and more of the Brown type who think being a success means playing for the OF and less and less of the Bremner, Souness, Dalglish types who knew just how limited that would be.

Spudster

03-12-2011, 06:46 PM

You're also selling Roy Keane extremely short.
Watch any Roy Keane best of on youtube and it's just 5mins of shouting, snarling and crunching tackles. Not exactly Zidane was he?

johnrebus

03-12-2011, 06:55 PM

I'd just like to helpfully add this: Scott Brown - Legend

My arse.

johnbc70

03-12-2011, 07:25 PM

Scott Brown is no Hibs Legend, lets get that straight.

Nearly £2M a year to play at Celtic and 'challenge' yourself against the likes of St Mirren and Inverness Caley, easy money and who can blame him? Yes the easy option, and would rather see a Scotland player up against the Man U, Man City, Chelsea players but he is almost being handed the money on a plate.

jacomo

03-12-2011, 08:15 PM

bighairyfaeleith

03-12-2011, 08:41 PM

really dissapointed in scott, I genuinely think if he went south to the right club he could have became a massive player but instead he has chosen to stay at a club where the fans don't rate him and basically take the easy buck.

Has never progressed since leaving hibs, his bank balance has, but his football hasn't.

Spudster

03-12-2011, 09:43 PM

Wonderful game against Italy for Scotland included.

Presumably you don't mean the game at Hampden cos the first Italy goal was entirely his fault.

snooky

04-12-2011, 10:52 AM

I think he will finish his career at celtc.

Personally, I think he's already finished his career at celtc :boo hoo:

Andy74

05-12-2011, 08:48 AM

Bit OTT Andy, don't you think?

Good team but you're deluding yourself if you think it was more than that!:agree:

Maybe you could read and quote the whole sentence? I was talking about some of the great individual results from that time.

Stevie Reid

05-12-2011, 09:11 AM

Watch any Roy Keane best of on youtube and it's just 5mins of shouting, snarling and crunching tackles. Not exactly Zidane was he?

He is one of the best midfielders of his type ever to play the game - and I don't need to watch any clips, I remember him perfectly well as an absolutely superb player. Although I stated that he did not show a great deal of technique and finesse, I mean that in the context of the Zidanes of this world; he was still a phenomenal player, and to suggest that his career was made up solely of "shouting, snarling and crunching tackles" is absurd.

Incidentally, Pele included him in the Fifa 100 list of the 125 greatest living players in 2004 - one of only 50 on the list who were still playing at the time.