Man City

[Northernhibee]

Apparently lining up a move for Van Persie.

They are another nail in the coffin of modern football. Only three or four teams will be able to compete in England and perhaps even European football, the decline of Arsenal has shown that.

Time for a fixed wagecap across Europe for football teams to the point of if you breach it, 25pt deduction.

Still, at least not all teams can buy their league, eh Vlad?

[HibbyAndy]

If Chelsea bought Torres for 50 Million RVP is worth 200 Million .

[Love the Green]

Apparently lining up a move for Van Persie.

They are another nail in the coffin of modern football. Only three or four teams will be able to compete in England and perhaps even European football, the decline of Arsenal has shown that.

Time for a fixed wagecap across Europe for football teams to the point of if you breach it, 25pt deduction.

Still, at least not all teams can buy their league, eh Vlad?

Morning Northernhibee

So why are we wanting to input a wage freeze on now that CITY have the upper hand with bringing in players, why did nobody think of this over the last 10 years when United Arsenal and Chelsea dominated winning the EPL...or did they bring all their players through the youth systems, not pay any transfer fees and the players played for £100 a week?
Surely anoyther team competing for honours is good for the game or do you want to keep the trophies for a chosed few...

"keep the faith"
:wink:

[DH1875]

Morning Northernhibee

So why are we wanting to input a wage freeze on now that CITY have the upper hand with bringing in players, why did nobody think of this over the last 10 years when United Arsenal and Chelsea dominated winning the EPL...or did they bring all their players through the youth systems, not pay any transfer fees and the players played for £100 a week?
Surely anoyther team competing for honours is good for the game or do you want to keep the trophies for a chosed few...

"keep the faith"
:wink:

Think the point is that given another couple of years it will be City and only City that will be winning any trophies in England.

[Barney McGrew]

why did nobody think of this over the last 10 years when United Arsenal and Chelsea dominated winning the EPL

Man City are now spending money that the club itself doesn't have on players, that's the difference. You could easily accuse Chelsea of doing that ten years or so ago, but even they are now living within their means to a certain extent. Man Utd and Arsenal could outspend other teams because they had bigger income in the first place.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with Man City when the new UEFA rules come in in 2013.

[Love the Green]

Man City are now spending money that the club itself doesn't have on players, that's the difference. You could easily accuse Chelsea of doing that ten years or so ago, but even they are now living within their means to a certain extent. Man Utd and Arsenal could outspend other teams because they had bigger income in the first place.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with Man City when the new UEFA rules come in in 2013.

Barney so how are United £450m in DEBT is it cleaners wages or money they have spent on players thye cant afford
City made a loss bur are not in debt
when the new regulations come in there are many ways to get round it stadium naming and sposorship to mention a few.
How is it fair a team with 70,000 stadium are allowed to spend more than teams with 30.000 or 40,000 stadiums.Of course bigger stadiums will generate more cash this will only encourage the smaller stadium teams to increase ticket prices...whether you and others like it or not "the blue moon IS rising"
City owner is not making the loyal fans pay for the influx of players..entry to the Napoli home game and the Everton game £25

"keep the faith"

[Kojock]

Imagine a league where one of the same two teams win the league every year. How crap would that be......:confused:

[Barney McGrew]

Barney so how are United £450m in DEBT is it cleaners wages or money they have spent on players thye cant afford
City made a loss bur are not in debt
when the new regulations come in there are many ways to get round it stadium naming and sposorship to mention a few.
How is it fair a team with 70,000 stadium are allowed to spend more than teams with 30.000 or 40,000 stadiums.Of course bigger stadiums will generate more cash this will only encourage the smaller stadium teams to increase ticket prices...whether you and others like it or not "the blue moon IS rising"
City owner is not making the loyal fans pay for the influx of players..entry to the Napoli home game and the Everton game £25

"keep the faith"

Most of United's debt (IIRC) was created when they were bought out by the yanks, and what's left is being serviced each year by the income they have. What City have spent can't be serviced by their income, and they're simply doing what Hertz tried to do, but with a guy who actually has got money shovelling it into the club. The bit about the size of stadiums is totally irrelevant, should teams that take in more in gate money not be allowed to spend it because another team doesn't have a ground as big?

TBH, I don't give a flying one about the 'Blue Moon rising' stuff, I don't particularly like Man Utd or Chelsea either, but what I especially don't like is the way Chelsea and Man City among others are buying success. Hopefully UEFA can put rules in place to stop it, and also stop the clubs from getting around the rules.

[DH1875]

It will be very interesting to see what happens with Man City when the new UEFA rules come in in 2013.

Erm...... That will be nada, nothing. Anything they'd do to city they'd have to do to Barca and Real and that aint gonna happen. UEFA will be to worried they break away and set up their own league.

[Love the Green]

Most of United's debt (IIRC) was created when they were bought out by the yanks, and what's left is being serviced each year by the income they have. What City have spent can't be serviced by their income, and they're simply doing what Hertz tried to do, but with a guy who actually has got money shovelling it into the club. The bit about the size of stadiums is totally irrelevant, should teams that take in more in gate money not be allowed to spend it because another team doesn't have a ground as big?

TBH, I don't give a flying one about the 'Blue Moon rising' stuff, I don't particularly like Man Utd or Chelsea either, but what I especially don't like is the way Chelsea and Man City among others are buying success. Hopefully UEFA can put rules in place to stop it, and also stop the clubs from getting around the rules.

Yes everything is the yanks fault despite United having possible the most successful period in their history since the Glaziers arrived..how can you service such great debts when the interest alone is almpost as great as the income, oops almost forgot they dont buy players or give in to massive wage demands..

So as a payoing football fan is it ok for City owner to let fans in for £25 or the Arsenal mob charging me £60 for the city game.Why would anyone want to stop that?

"keep the faith":agree:

[PISTOL1875]

Apparently lining up a move for Van Persie.

They are another nail in the coffin of modern football. Only three or four teams will be able to compete in England and perhaps even European football, the decline of Arsenal has shown that.

Time for a fixed wagecap across Europe for football teams to the point of if you breach it, 25pt deduction.

Still, at least not all teams can buy their league, eh Vlad?

I think its a great move..

City wouldn't actually be spending any money as the cash used to buy RVP would be come from any transfer involving Carlos Tevez..

[Barney McGrew]

Yes everything is the yanks fault despite United having possible the most successful period in their history since the Glaziers arrived..how can you service such great debts when the interest alone is almpost as great as the income, oops almost forgot they dont buy players or give in to massive wage demands..

So as a payoing football fan is it ok for City owner to let fans in for £25 or the Arsenal mob charging me £60 for the city game.Why would anyone want to stop that?

"keep the faith":agree:

Man Utd's interest payments are now at £43.5m a year, and their income to June was over £330m so you're way, way out on your first point. They reduced their overall debt by £70m in the same period, meaning they are now in debt for £308m. So whatever they're spending on wages or transfer fees, they're doing it within their means.

Man City ran up a loss of £194.9m for the same period (up on the £120m they lost the previous year and the £73m the year before that) off a turnover of £153m.

I can only applaud the ticket prices, but it still doesn't get away from the fact that they are spending money they don't have.

[Speedy]

Think the point is that given another couple of years it will be City and only City that will be winning any trophies in England.

I don't think that will happen.

They may reduce spending in the same way that Chelsea have. There is also the possibility that another billionaire comes along and outspends City in the same way that City are now outspending Chelsea.

[Northernhibee]

I don't think that will happen.They may reduce spending in the same way that Chelsea have. There is also the possibility that another billionaire comes along and outspends City in the same way that City are now outspending Chelsea. And what a depressing scenario that is. No room for a well put together team to challenge like Blackburn did, just more and more of a rich list than ever before.Give me the SPL anyday.

[Dashing Bob S]

Apparently lining up a move for Van Persie.

They are another nail in the coffin of modern football. Only three or four teams will be able to compete in England and perhaps even European football, the decline of Arsenal has shown that.

Time for a fixed wagecap across Europe for football teams to the point of if you breach it, 25pt deduction.

Still, at least not all teams can buy their league, eh Vlad?

If Citeh got brass and want t' spend brass, who's t'say Citeh shouldn't be allowed t' spend brass?

No, I agree. A fixed wage cap is utterly essential. In America, of all places, they can't believe we don't have one in football. They don't feel it's obscene that sportsmen are making that amount of money (here they are wrong) just that it's anti-competitive and therefore anti-sport. (Here they are correct.)

[SteveHFC]

How many strikers do City Need?

It would be funny if City won nothing this season :aok:

[Sir David Gray]

How many strikers do City Need?

It would be funny if City won nothing this season :aok:

:agree: Hilarious!

[Dashing Bob S]

How many strikers do City Need?

It would be funny if City won nothing this season :aok:

It would also be hilarious if Hibs won everything. But neither of these two things is going to pass, so dream on.

[ancient hibee]

Apparently lining up a move for Van Persie.

They are another nail in the coffin of modern football. Only three or four teams will be able to compete in England and perhaps even European football, the decline of Arsenal has shown that.

Time for a fixed wagecap across Europe for football teams to the point of if you breach it, 25pt deduction.

Still, at least not all teams can buy their league, eh Vlad?

That'll be the Arsenal that have declined so badly that they are the first English team to qualify for the Euro knock outs and the Man City that aren't going to.

[Hibercelona]

I can only applaud the ticket prices, but it still doesn't get away from the fact that they are spending money they don't have.

Are you kiding?

Their owner could toss a billion into them right now from loose change in his back pocket.

[Love the Green]

[QUOTE=Barney McGrew;3007887]Man Utd's interest payments are now at £43.5m a year, and their income to June was over £330m so you're way, way out on your first point. They reduced their overall debt by £70m in the same period, meaning they are now in debt for £308m. So whatever they're spending on wages or transfer fees, they're doing it within their means.

Man City ran up a loss of £194.9m for the same period (up on the £120m they lost the previous year and the £73m the year before that) off a turnover of £153m.

Sheik Mansoor owns City and is worth 19 billion so he is spending money he does have,,United reduced their debt to over 400 million not 300 million..do they have this money?

"keep the faith"

[down-the-slope]

while the scale may have reached mental levels....its hardly new...

Blackburn (Jack Walker) did it.. Chelsea (Abramovich) did it.... Leeds borrowed and spent big..there are other examples. Up here Murray at Rangers did it / Fergus McCann at Celtic.....

While i think some form of limits / control is needed, some of those bleating have been happy when its them doing the spending..

As has been pointed out UEFA will not deal With the Spanish giants who are far worse in that they sort their own TV deals as its not colective like EPL which at least ensures a fair slice of the real big income.


I would be in favour of a squad total 'wage' cap as this would prevent having all the best players at a few clubs...however in free market situation ways will always be found round this...like the off shore image rights / employing family members as translators (at 20k a week :wink:) etc etc...

[lapsedhibee]

Not sure that Van Persie would jump ship quite as readily as Clichy and Nasri did. Think he is a bit of a gooner. If Arsenal bump up his next contract and either won something this year or got a couple of high quality players in January, I don't think he'd be overwhelmingly tempted. Think he's just about the polar opposite of the slimeball Tevez.

[Rory89]

I agree that City's spending is pretty obscene, but the moaning from supporters of Man United/Liverpool etc is the only thing that makes me want to see them win the league this year.

Manyoo fans in perticular have some cheek to moan about City's spending. They've whored themselves about commercially more than any other club in the UK, and are perhaps more responsible for the plastic, money driven *****-fest that is top level European football than any other club in the world. They've consistently spent large amounts of money over the last twenty years to keep themselves at the top, and now because someone else is spending more than them they're throwing all their toys out the pram.

I hope City destroy Man United again and win the title, at least they have fans similiar to ours that've had to suffer pish most of the time. Once they become a plastic, gloryboy club like their rivals then I'll stop wishing them well.

[Barney McGrew]

Are you kiding?

Their owner could toss a billion into them right now from loose change in his back pocket.


Sheik Mansoor owns City and is worth 19 billion so he is spending money he does have,,United reduced their debt to over 400 million not 300 million..do they have this money?

I'm well aware that HE has plenty of money, but the point is the football club itself doesn't, and in exactly the same way as Abramovich did with Chelsea he's spending money that the CLUB itself cant afford.

It's turning more and more into real life 'Football Manager' and is so detached from reality.

[khib70]

I agree that City's spending is pretty obscene, but the moaning from supporters of Man United/Liverpool etc is the only thing that makes me want to see them win the league this year.

Manyoo fans in perticular have some cheek to moan about City's spending. They've whored themselves about commercially more than any other club in the UK, and are perhaps more responsible for the plastic, money driven *****-fest that is top level European football than any other club in the world. They've consistently spent large amounts of money over the last twenty years to keep themselves at the top, and now because someone else is spending more than them they're throwing all their toys out the pram.

I hope City destroy Man United again and win the title, at least they have fans similiar to ours that've had to suffer pish most of the time. Once they become a plastic, gloryboy club like their rivals then I'll stop wishing them well.
:top marks Spot on, sir. The bitter and twisted noises coming from Manure and Chelski fans now that someone's dared to knock them off the pedestal they spent billions to climb onto are just plain funny.

And as for that tool Platini's "fair play" rules, they're just a desperate attempt to keep the "old order" of European football in power.

[Sylar]

I love that, when faced with the point about their obscene spending, most City fans resort to the politician style approach, harking to the other side.

It doesn't matter what's gone before and what Man Utd's debt level is, or Chelsea's, or Liverpool's - the fact of the matter is that the money City are spending (as with these other clubs beforehand) is ludicrous. I'm aware nobody really spoke out against it before, as the Premiership was in such a boom period and nobody dared criticize the operational workings of the "big 4", but they bloody well should have. The introduction of a salary cap increases competition, as it's up to clubs to bring through youth players and all live within the same restraints. Consider the gulf between a club like Man City and someone like Norwich, or Bolton, or Wigan. It's like East Stirlingshire trying to compete with Rangers and Celtic on a weekly basis - it's totally unfair and the cards are stacked from the off.

I'd love to see football take a look at the NFL, or Major League Baseball - the same teams find it very difficult to win on an annual basis, as the capping of salaries prevents any team from buying the best players in the league and creating a superpower. Granted, the US Sports are bolstered by the NCAA college system, which markedly increases the availability of good young athletes, but most clubs (in England anyway) have youth and reserve teams and decent scouts.

City fans currently bleat on about the wealth of their Arab sugar daddy - what happens if he loses interest, is found to be corrupt/fraudulent and has his assets seized, is hit by a bus tomorrow? As a business model, Man City doesn't work, as their income doesn't balance and is bolstered by the interest of one man.

I really wish something would be done about it, but as DH points out, the big clubs would undoubtedly break away and form their own league/competition, which would maintain its over-inflated existence, as sponsors, TV money and players will all want to be part of the Super League group of clubs, rather than investing in whatever dross is left behind.

I wonder how the smaller Premiership teams in England feel about the risk of such an exodus? Similar to how we view the Old Firm monopoly/exodus scenarios?

[Skanko79]

City are on the up and thats a good thing, this was proved in the 6-1 demolition of United, which was magical. Love listening to all these folk who moan about City buying there way to the top, sheer envy, nothing else. If anything they should be praised for keeping it affordable for "real" fans to come to coms and see their team. Any new force challenging for honours should be applauded and will be by the "real" fans of opposing teams, the ones that moan and whinge are the glory hunters.

[ScottB]

Apparently lining up a move for Van Persie.

They are another nail in the coffin of modern football. Only three or four teams will be able to compete in England and perhaps even European football, the decline of Arsenal has shown that.

Time for a fixed wagecap across Europe for football teams to the point of if you breach it, 25pt deduction.

Still, at least not all teams can buy their league, eh Vlad?

How is that any different than the last few years?

A turnover to wages ratio cap will just set in stone the domination of big clubs anyway; Man Utd would be able to outspend their competition massively due to their income levels, the small clubs would just be unable to even attempt to challenge.

The premierships entire existence has been largely dominated by one team (Man Utd), with Arsenal challenging and two more 'buying titles' as you put it (Blackburn and Chelsea)

So in fact, without some crazy rich folk, the EPL would likely have only been won by two clubs. So a lot less competitive then.

[hibbysam]

How can you possibly tell someone how to spend there own probably hard earned cash though?

Its like telling someone with money they cant buy a huge mansion as the rest of the public are staying in small council owned houses..

Its the owners money and in my book should be allowed to spend that in any way he wants, if it all goes tits up, then that's his own money he has lost.

[Love the Green]

:agree: Hilarious!

AH Falkirkunited glad to hear you are still alive, after your thumping 4 week ago I thought you had emigrated.

Hilarious yes but not as funny as u*****d's treble last season.

"keep the faith"

[Skanko79]

AH Falkirkunited glad to hear you are still alive, after your thumping 4 week ago I thought you had emigrated.

Hilarious yes but not as funny as u*****d's treble last season.

"keep the faith"

:top marks

[Sylar]

How can you possibly tell someone how to spend there own probably hard earned cash though?

Its like telling someone with money they cant buy a huge mansion as the rest of the public are staying in small council owned houses..

Its the owners money and in my book should be allowed to spend that in any way he wants, if it all goes tits up, then that's his own money he has lost.

I agree to an extent - if he's earned his many millions, then it's up to him how he spends that, but it creates an imbalance in the competition (in this case, of the Premiership) when he outspends any other rival. That's not technically Man City's fault, but something should be in place to level the playing field, as when smaller Premiership clubs are having to base their financial workings on a balance sheet and their operational successes as a business (through trading, merchandise and match-day income), compared to clubs with owners who hemorrhage that sort of money in daily interest accumulation, it's just not sustainable.

Be interesting to see how many of these large end investors would walk away, no longer being able to play fantasy football.

If it does all go tits up, it's easy enough to say that it's the owner who financially loses out, but more often than not it's the employees and small business contractors to the clubs who take the biggest hit.