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thebakerboy
26-11-2011, 09:47 PM
My biggest problem with picking a team at the moment is that apart from the pretty poor Michael Hart we do not seem to have a real full back at the club and as a result we have centre backs midfielders and wingers playing fullback. Now noticed that Mr Fenlan said he would look at the players we have and decide the best formation to play. At last we may have found a manager who is going to fit round pegs in round holes instead of instead of putting pegs in holes that they nearly fit and making do.Looking at our squad it strikes me that we have the perfect group of players to make up a 3 5 3 team , whether they are good enough is a moot point but we do not have the players to play 4 4 2 or 4 3 3 and should not be playing either of these setups.:pfgwa

truehibernian
26-11-2011, 10:14 PM
What Hibernian need desperately IMHO is natural fullbacks and play with a sweeper system.

This would require a completely new backline, again in my opinion. Hibs play far too deep into themselves, hence even when we go one up in games, we often concede quickly and fall behind almost inevitably (playing too deep and inviting crosses, middle park possession). We have two centre halves who are alarmingly similar in that they neither want to carry the ball forward (more down to confidence than ability I think). By having a 'Willie Miller' (Aberdeen) type, that gives the team confidence to take the game into the opposition half, taking the full backs with him and pressing higher up the pitch. Hanlon is not a left back. He played his juvenile football as a midfielder - he's been asked to adapt quickly into both a left back and centre back in a poor team. Wotherspoon has always played as a midfielder, yet has had to change his style and manner of play due to Hughes playing him as a 'wing back' come right back. The lad's confidence was crushed and the fans got to him. Towell by his own admission prefers a holding role in midfield. We need a player in the middle who shouts, leads, berates and can take the ball to the halfway line with confidence..............we play so flat and square at the back !


Midfield lacks balance on both flanks too. Sproule just doesn't know how to play the role. I like Ivan, but he needs to be used in the right manner. For me he is not a first pick at the moment, but more someone to come on with 30 to go and give the full back of the opposition, already tired, a torrid time. We need balance at left and right midfield which is why perhaps the likes of Booth can come in and play left, with perhaps Thornhill/Wotherspoon right. Palsson and Osbourne in the middle for me with Towell a useful holding player if need be. The midfield, crucially though, lacks invention and spark. That's what we need too (as well as defenders).

If Sean Welsh is fit I would try him at right back (he has played there and looked decent), with a returning Scott Smith at left back. I'd be almost tempted to try VP as a sweeper/centre half alongside Hanlon/Stephens.

I'd also replace Stack, who for me, has contributed to a few goals this season by his positioning (lack of), and for some reason his inability to shout and command his area (as he did coming back last season). He looks disinterested and acts it. Maybe the one year deal has led to an apathy, who knows.

Hard work though.....it's what's lacking and a real chronic indiscipline on the pitch. If we survive the dog fight, I can see Fenlon getting his Irish broom to work and clearing out a whole host of them. They love bevvy, fags and betting too much and don't have the love of Hibs or the real desire to be top professional footballers. None appear to really want to get to the next level a la Whitty, Brown, Fletch and Co.


Whatever happens though it's not going to be pretty to watch until Fenlon sees for himself and decides who he needs to keep. We simply must get behind him (Fenlon) and give him some real support this second half of the season. God knows he needs it with this lot. I sense that the East Mains Holiday Camp, housing the Hibernian Players Charitable Association is well and truly over. Fingers crossed :agree:

JoeT_WasTheBest
26-11-2011, 10:29 PM
My biggest problem with picking a team at the moment is that apart from the pretty poor Michael Hart we do not seem to have a real full back at the club and as a result we have centre backs midfielders and wingers playing fullback. Now noticed that Mr Fenlan said he would look at the players we have and decide the best formation to play. At last we may have found a manager who is going to fit round pegs in round holes instead of instead of putting pegs in holes that they nearly fit and making do.Looking at our squad it strikes me that we have the perfect group of players to make up a 3 5 3 team , whether they are good enough is a moot point but we do not have the players to play 4 4 2 or 4 3 3 and should not be playing either of these setups.:pfgwa

3-5-3 definitely the way forward ;-)

truehibernian
26-11-2011, 10:35 PM
Let's hope the ref doesn't notice our extra man :greengrin Saying that it would still not make one iota of difference with this rotten mob.

SMAXXA
26-11-2011, 10:42 PM
What Hibernian need desperately IMHO is natural fullbacks and play with a sweeper system.

This would require a completely new backline, again in my opinion. Hibs play far too deep into themselves, hence even when we go one up in games, we often concede quickly and fall behind almost inevitably (playing too deep and inviting crosses, middle park possession). We have two centre halves who are alarmingly similar in that they neither want to carry the ball forward (more down to confidence than ability I think). By having a 'Willie Miller' (Aberdeen) type, that gives the team confidence to take the game into the opposition half, taking the full backs with him and pressing higher up the pitch. Hanlon is not a left back. He played his juvenile football as a midfielder - he's been asked to adapt quickly into both a left back and centre back in a poor team. Wotherspoon has always played as a midfielder, yet has had to change his style and manner of play due to Hughes playing him as a 'wing back' come right back. The lad's confidence was crushed and the fans got to him. Towell by his own admission prefers a holding role in midfield. We need a player in the middle who shouts, leads, berates and can take the ball to the halfway line with confidence..............we play so flat and square at the back !


Midfield lacks balance on both flanks too. Sproule just doesn't know how to play the role. I like Ivan, but he needs to be used in the right manner. For me he is not a first pick at the moment, but more someone to come on with 30 to go and give the full back of the opposition, already tired, a torrid time. We need balance at left and right midfield which is why perhaps the likes of Booth can come in and play left, with perhaps Thornhill/Wotherspoon right. Palsson and Osbourne in the middle for me with Towell a useful holding player if need be. The midfield, crucially though, lacks invention and spark. That's what we need too (as well as defenders).

If Sean Welsh is fit I would try him at right back (he has played there and looked decent), with a returning Scott Smith at left back. I'd be almost tempted to try VP as a sweeper/centre half alongside Hanlon/Stephens.

I'd also replace Stack, who for me, has contributed to a few goals this season by his positioning (lack of), and for some reason his inability to shout and command his area (as he did coming back last season). He looks disinterested and acts it. Maybe the one year deal has led to an apathy, who knows.

Hard work though.....it's what's lacking and a real chronic indiscipline on the pitch. If we survive the dog fight, I can see Fenlon getting his Irish broom to work and clearing out a whole host of them. They love bevvy, fags and betting too much and don't have the love of Hibs or the real desire to be top professional footballers. None appear to really want to get to the next level a la Whitty, Brown, Fletch and Co.


Whatever happens though it's not going to be pretty to watch until Fenlon sees for himself and decides who he needs to keep. We simply must get behind him (Fenlon) and give him some real support this second half of the season. God knows he needs it with this lot. I sense that the East Mains Holiday Camp, housing the Hibernian Players Charitable Association is well and truly over. Fingers crossed :agree:

Mate I hear what ur saying but for Hibs to go forward and strenghten do you actually think a team of Wotherspoon, Hanlon and Towell are gona be pivital to us being successful? I honestly dont think they are good enough and think a certin number of us feel that we have to cling on because they are the next poor mans golden generation when in my opinion I dont think they are good enough! Its harsh and im not saying they never will be good enough just what I have seen from them over the last couple of years. We cant keep blaming the players around them, surley theywould stand out in a team of ***** if they were that good?

Dont want this to turn into a player bashing but just thinkj they are part of the overhall that we need!

truehibernian
26-11-2011, 10:51 PM
Mate I hear what ur saying but for Hibs to go forward and strenghten do you actually think a team of Wotherspoon, Hanlon and Towell are gona be pivital to us being successful? I honestly dont think they are good enough and think a certin number of us feel that we have to cling on because they are the next poor mans golden generation when in my opinion I dont think they are good enough! Its harsh and im not saying they never will be good enough just what I have seen from them over the last couple of years. We cant keep blaming the players around them, surley theywould stand out in a team of ***** if they were that good?

Dont want this to turn into a player bashing but just thinkj they are part of the overhall that we need!

I know bud, I was using the players that we currently have to put into that system. I really don't think we have any kind of budget in January for major surgery, so we will have to make do with what we have.

What I hate seeing is a situation where our young players have been used and abused in varying positions on the pitch, none of these positions being that they are comfortable in.

Come next season we need two centre halves, two creative midfielders, and natural left and right backs.

SMAXXA
26-11-2011, 10:59 PM
I know bud, I was using the players that we currently have to put into that system. I really don't think we have any kind of budget in January for major surgery, so we will have to make do with what we have.

What I hate seeing is a situation where our young players have been used and abused in varying positions on the pitch, none of these positions being that they are comfortable in.

Come next season we need two centre halves, two creative midfielders, and natural left and right backs.

Fair doos mate and I can see what your saying. Ur right though that we dont have the players to really change things at the moment which for me is a true eye opener of how bad a squad we actually have. In all honesty aswell I remember the Killi game away I think it was, we had 4 under 21's as our back 4, ffs which top flight team could have that, especially when not one of them are that great (Booth,Stephens, Hanlon and Palsson I thin it was).

Im sure there are experienced players out there that we could get at a decent price / wage that would improve our team, in all departments that is.

Sioux
27-11-2011, 12:10 AM
What Hibernian need desperately IMHO is natural fullbacks and play with a sweeper system.

This would require a completely new backline, again in my opinion. Hibs play far too deep into themselves, hence even when we go one up in games, we often concede quickly and fall behind almost inevitably (playing too deep and inviting crosses, middle park possession). We have two centre halves who are alarmingly similar in that they neither want to carry the ball forward (more down to confidence than ability I think). By having a 'Willie Miller' (Aberdeen) type, that gives the team confidence to take the game into the opposition half, taking the full backs with him and pressing higher up the pitch. Hanlon is not a left back. He played his juvenile football as a midfielder - he's been asked to adapt quickly into both a left back and centre back in a poor team. Wotherspoon has always played as a midfielder, yet has had to change his style and manner of play due to Hughes playing him as a 'wing back' come right back. The lad's confidence was crushed and the fans got to him. Towell by his own admission prefers a holding role in midfield. We need a player in the middle who shouts, leads, berates and can take the ball to the halfway line with confidence..............we play so flat and square at the back !


Midfield lacks balance on both flanks too. Sproule just doesn't know how to play the role. I like Ivan, but he needs to be used in the right manner. For me he is not a first pick at the moment, but more someone to come on with 30 to go and give the full back of the opposition, already tired, a torrid time. We need balance at left and right midfield which is why perhaps the likes of Booth can come in and play left, with perhaps Thornhill/Wotherspoon right. Palsson and Osbourne in the middle for me with Towell a useful holding player if need be. The midfield, crucially though, lacks invention and spark. That's what we need too (as well as defenders).

If Sean Welsh is fit I would try him at right back (he has played there and looked decent), with a returning Scott Smith at left back. I'd be almost tempted to try VP as a sweeper/centre half alongside Hanlon/Stephens.

I'd also replace Stack, who for me, has contributed to a few goals this season by his positioning (lack of), and for some reason his inability to shout and command his area (as he did coming back last season). He looks disinterested and acts it. Maybe the one year deal has led to an apathy, who knows.

Hard work though.....it's what's lacking and a real chronic indiscipline on the pitch. If we survive the dog fight, I can see Fenlon getting his Irish broom to work and clearing out a whole host of them. They love bevvy, fags and betting too much and don't have the love of Hibs or the real desire to be top professional footballers. None appear to really want to get to the next level a la Whitty, Brown, Fletch and Co.


Whatever happens though it's not going to be pretty to watch until Fenlon sees for himself and decides who he needs to keep. We simply must get behind him (Fenlon) and give him some real support this second half of the season. God knows he needs it with this lot. I sense that the East Mains Holiday Camp, housing the Hibernian Players Charitable Association is well and truly over. Fingers crossed :agree:

Can't believe you didn't get manager's job. Obviously you didn't apply.

Sammy7nil
27-11-2011, 12:18 AM
Gordon Hunter aged 22 Right Back
Suazee Sweeper
Jones
Murphy

That would sort the back four

Reserves

Jackie Mack
Ulrik Larsson
Whittiker
Gary Smith

Hibernia Na Eir
27-11-2011, 12:26 AM
stephens and oh hanlon. murder! never SPL players. whatever SPL quality means? utter pash

Hibernia Na Eir
27-11-2011, 12:27 AM
stephens and oh hanlon. murder! never SPL players. whatever SPL quality means?!!

AFKA5814_Hibs
27-11-2011, 12:30 AM
We need a TOTAL clear out, i.e. in 2 or 3 years time we still have 1 or 2 players max. who are with the club at the moment, it's THAT bad.

Sammy7nil
27-11-2011, 12:30 AM
stephens and oh hanlon. murder! never SPL players. whatever SPL quality means?!!
That's twice you have said that :greengrin

I think Stephens could be good

Albion Hibs
27-11-2011, 12:51 AM
The thing that is frustrating me most is playing players out of position. My general view is that we have a team good enough to compete, in some areas we are very weak, in others we are strong and benefit from players with natural/ good ability. In the areas that we are weak we need players to work much harder to allow players with ability to do there bit.

In relation the back four I am sick of the fact we signed a right back because we dont have one, and then we go and play him in midfield (Towell). The back four is suffering from inexperience and inability, probably a lack of belief in the keeper behind them.

We need to play our right back at right back and get the CH partnership sorted. My belief is Murray should be in there, perhaps with Stephens. Giving us some height and a player with a lot of experience and good reading of the game. We dont have an out and out LB, Murray did well there against Motherwell in the cup, but I would probably keep hanlon there for just now.

In front of that we need to get back to playing players like thornhill in the centre of the pitch along with Osbourne, their preferred positions, out wide we use Sproule and if we have to Wotherspoon and AN other like Booth etc.

We have strikers with good ability in O'Connor, Griffiths and Agogo but we need a balanced team behind them, with players playing in roles where they know where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing. Dont get me wrong the strikers need to drop in and help out, but I cant help but feel the lack of understanding is causing a shortage in confidence which is contribution to our current problems.

Haymaker
27-11-2011, 12:58 AM
Play a sweeper system?

:rolleyes:

We really can get hold of a player who understands a sweeper system/players who are can adapt. It is a very difficult system to play.

Sergeant Hibs
27-11-2011, 01:01 AM
I don't think the back four is as bad as everyone is making out i realise we need a CH but I think Paul Hanlon is a good player and will progress with age same with Callum Booth and I don't understand why Towell isn't at RB he does bugger all in midfield he was good at RB IMO but on the other hand Sean O'Hanlon is about as much use as a blind photographer in defence and David Stephens is almost as big a bombscare as Dickoh although he is young he shouldnt be near the first team now he should be sent on loan to division 1 or 2. In the mean time we need a big experienced commanding centre half to marshall and lead the defence the man for this in my opinion is someone like Rob Jones

Haymaker
27-11-2011, 01:10 AM
in my opinion is someone like Rob Jones

He left. He has gone. He wanted to leave for a long time. He is not coming back.


Stop.

Sammy7nil
27-11-2011, 01:13 AM
Play a sweeper system?

:rolleyes:

We really can get hold of a player who understands a sweeper system/players who are can adapt. It is a very difficult system to play.


Well Jimmy sandison played sweeper at hearts and looked World class against Hibs I can assure JS was not world class

Haymaker
27-11-2011, 01:15 AM
Well Jimmy sandison played sweeper at hearts and looked World class against Hibs I can assure JS was not world class
when was this?

Sammy7nil
27-11-2011, 01:18 AM
when was this?

1980's - maybe early 90's and prior to him sandy Jardine did the same thing Hibs were never able to break them down both appeared to have 15 yds of space all the time. t got so bad at one point I thought our striker should mark their sweeper

Haymaker
27-11-2011, 01:24 AM
1980's - maybe early 90's and prior to him sandy Jardine did the same thing Hibs were never able to break them down both appeared to have 15 yds of space all the time. t got so bad at one point I thought our striker should mark their sweeper

Football has moved on since the 80's and early 90's. Holy **** it has moved on since 5 years ago. If you hadnt noticed.

Name a player is this day and age who has been a sweeper to any effect.

I wager you cannot, because the sweeper system is dead/over/gone.

Sammy7nil
27-11-2011, 01:26 AM
Football has moved on since the 80's and early 90's. Holy **** it has moved on since 5 years ago. If you hadnt noticed.

Name a player is this day and age who has been a sweeper to any effect.

I wager you cannot, because the sweeper system is dead/over/gone.

Suazee seemed to do okay

Haymaker
27-11-2011, 01:30 AM
Suazee seemed to do okay

True. When did he retire?


Have you seen anyone play it since?


Are we ever able to recruit a player the Franck quality?

Sammy7nil
27-11-2011, 01:30 AM
Ricardo Carvalho - Chelsea seem to miss this guy too :confused:

Haymaker
27-11-2011, 01:31 AM
Ricardo Carvalho - Chelsea seem to miss this guy too :confused:

Played in a back four, not a 3-5-2 sweeper system?

Sammy7nil
27-11-2011, 01:34 AM
I agree the game has changed but Hibs are playing Dunfermline, St Johnstone, inverness, St Mirren
If we cannot get get a back four to look dominant against this lot we are in trouble and yes i know we are in trouble

Haymaker
27-11-2011, 01:38 AM
I agree the game has changed but Hibs are playing Dunfermline, St Johnstone, inverness, St Mirren
If we cannot get get a back four to look dominant against this lot we are in trouble and yes i know we are in trouble


Oh I agree 100%, our back four is *****. Beyond *****. But I dont believe we could get anyone who could pull off a 3-5-2 formation right now. Maybe if we pounded these guys in pre-season... maybe. But I dont believe we can.

TrickyNicky
27-11-2011, 02:59 AM
Players being played out of position as often as they have been is criminal in my opinion.

I wonder if this team has ever sat down and had a heart to heart with each other , as well as the coaches and the manager and discussed like any other member of a team their own strengths and where they would like to play, where they feel they are most confident, where they think they can offer their best to the team, it's all very well having managers that run the show but the players need to have the confidence in their own ability to be able to deliver.

I wonder if the players have sat down and offered constructive criticism and praise in regards to each others game.

Knowing exactly who is on your left or right, instinctively, as well as knowing who is the better choice of these two should be a decision made without thought, their instincts should be a great deal stronger than they are and all the good teams have it.

Hibs have no confidence, no instinct, no options, no clue and no success.

We haven't bought well, we haven't made the best manager choices and we haven't trained the way we should have, now needs to be the time for massive reform in our club, we need to simplify and get back to basics on building a starting 11 , as well as a few subs that each other knows will still be around in 3 years, by their side,with the same goal, winning.

hibsbollah
27-11-2011, 02:01 PM
True. When did he retire? Have you seen anyone play it since? Are we ever able to recruit a player the Franck quality? Collins played Boozy at sweeper vs the huns and it was a revelation. Possibly our best ever home performance under collins.

truehibernian
27-11-2011, 02:16 PM
Collins played Boozy at sweeper vs the huns and it was a revelation. Possibly our best ever home performance under collins.

That was a great game in general and Boozy looked like he had played there for years. It was very open admittedly (I think it ended 3-3 didn't it??). And he got wrongly sent off !

I think Hibs need a player who can literally take the play further up the pitch, taking the defence with him. There is huge space between our defence and midfield and the likes of Osbourne and Stevenson are having to pick up possession with their backs to the opposition. That said, there is no one, other than Palsson, who sticks out as being a candidate for the job. Victor loses possession too easily and there could be many a scary moment. What he does have is an ego and confidence...........if it is harnessed the right way. Some of his passing last season, on our mini run, was excellent. He clearly has vision and a talent.


If you add a creative midfielder into the mix (January), and a natural left back, then we could be on to something. Hanlon simply doesn't impress me in the slightest in the left back berth, and O'Hanlon has been a huge disappointment. I would honestly have been tempted to bring in Davie Weir for experience alone, to bring on Stephens and Hanlon (and Palsson). Jeez, even Christian Dailly ! (and I cannot believe I said that)

hibsbollah
27-11-2011, 02:27 PM
That was a great game in general and Boozy looked like he had played there for years. It was very open admittedly (I think it ended 3-3 didn't it??). And he got wrongly sent off !I think Hibs need a player who can literally take the play further up the pitch, taking the defence with him. There is huge space between our defence and midfield and the likes of Osbourne and Stevenson are having to pick up possession with their backs to the opposition. That said, there is no one, other than Palsson, who sticks out as being a candidate for the job. Victor loses possession too easily and there could be many a scary moment. What he does have is an ego and confidence...........if it is harnessed the right way. Some of his passing last season, on our mini run, was excellent. He clearly has vision and a talent.If you add a creative midfielder into the mix (January), and a natural left back, then we could be on to something. Hanlon simply doesn't impress me in the slightest in the left back berth, and O'Hanlon has been a huge disappointment. I would honestly have been tempted to bring in Davie Weir for experience alone, to bring on Stephens and Hanlon (and Palsson). Jeez, even Christian Dailly ! (and I cannot believe I said that)you're right TH, there is noone in the current squad who could play sweeper. i wouldnt trust Palsson to switch on the kettle. Thicot could maybe have pulled it off but we never got to see...