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View Full Version : I've got an idea. Let's all stop "laughing at Hearts"



Nailrod
26-11-2011, 05:28 PM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

For more than twenty years I was a management consultant, working at board level all over the world in international businesses. For the life of me I cannot work out what it is that all these people could possibly be doing on a day-to-day basis that adds value to a business as small as Hibernian Football Club.

I note, on the other hand, that among this small army of five directors of something and two directors of nothing there is no "Director of Football". This is a bit like a small business that is entirely dependent on manufacturing, which has seven directors, none of whom is a director of production and none of whom has any background in production or manufacturing.

In modern football a manager is lucky if he enjoys a lifespan of three years at a club. Only one of the current SPL incumbents has been in his job that long, and more than half of them have served less than a year. It is overoptimistic, bordering on stupid, to expect that a man whose career horizon stetches out for a year or two if he is lucky is going to be thinking about a football strategy that looks forward four or five years.

If I was the Chairman of a modern football club the first and most important board appointment I would want to make would be a Director of Football, whose job would be to oversee and manage a long-term football strategy. I would try to make room for him by running my small football club with fewer than five other directors of something and two directors of nothing.

There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club. That's just one of them. I can think of a few more. Maybe other people can too. I also have one or two suggestions to put forward.

Keith_M
26-11-2011, 05:31 PM
I for one think 'consultants' are more often than not overrated and a waste of money.

For instance, how much have Consultants made out of Edinburgh's so far non-existent tram system?

BroxburnHibee
26-11-2011, 05:32 PM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

For more than twenty years I was a management consultant, working at board level all over the world in international businesses. For the life of me I cannot work out what it is that all these people could possibly be doing on a day-to-day basis that adds value to a business as small as Hibernian Football Club.

I note, on the other hand, that among this small army of five directors of something and two directors of nothing there is no "Director of Football". This is a bit like a small business that is entirely dependent on manufacturing, which has seven directors, none of whom is a director of production and none of whom has any background in production or manufacturing.

In modern football a manager is lucky if he enjoys a lifespan of three years at a club. Only one of the current SPL incumbents has been in his job that long, and more than half of them have served less than a year. It is overoptimistic, bordering on stupid, to expect that a man whose career horizon stetches out for a year or two if he is lucky is going to be thinking about a football strategy that looks forward four or five years.

If I was the Chairman of a modern football club the first and most important board appointment I would want to make would be a Director of Football, whose job would be to oversee and manage a long-term football strategy. I would try to make room for him by running my small football club with fewer than five other directors of something and two directors of nothing.

There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club. That's just one of them. I can think of a few more. Maybe other people can too. I also have one or two suggestions to put forward.

:top marks

Spike Mandela
26-11-2011, 05:34 PM
You may be right Nailrod but you will find few on here prepared to criticise the STF/RP business model.

Far easier to laugh at Hearts than a bit of introspection in to the way we go about things.

hibsbollah
26-11-2011, 05:37 PM
You were doing OK until you let it slip that you were a management consultant for twenty years and then your credibility imploded.

Jack
26-11-2011, 05:40 PM
No matter what Hibs are upto there's always time to have a laugh at their expense.

weecounty hibby
26-11-2011, 05:42 PM
The big difference is that we are stuggling to win games they are struggling to keep their club afloat. Lets be glad they are their to be laughed at cos we sure as **** can't smile about the way we are playing at the moment.

Mangement consultants!! Paid a lot of money to tell you what you already knew anyway. Your original post being a good example!:wink:

Bostonhibby
26-11-2011, 05:50 PM
Must admit I am beginning to lean this way myself and I tend to spend quite a bit of time having a laugh at them and their predicament as it is comedy gold and brings a bit of relief / denial......

That said when you look at the adversity these classless thugs have to deal with week in week out something in the players make up sees them grind out results we'd give our right arm for. Does make me wonder how our rabble would perform right now if they were playing in a stadium that is a health hazard, not knowing if the club will survive and face the genuine prospect of not even being paid as agreed. Maybe we would go on strike but how would we know the difference?

Nailrod
26-11-2011, 05:52 PM
I for one think 'consultants' are more often than not overrated and a waste of money.

For instance, how much have Consultants made out of Edinburgh's so far non-existent tram system?

I wasn't aware that I was suggesting that the solution to Hibs problems lies in hiring consultants. But for what it's worth, it seems to me that the group of people currently running our club share a lot in common with the people who were responsible for Edinburgh's non-existent tram system, not least in terms of the quality of their results.

GreenCastle
26-11-2011, 05:53 PM
We pay our players and are losing / below the yams in the league

They don't pay their players and are above us in the league / winning

Frustrating ? :rolleyes:

greenlex
26-11-2011, 05:53 PM
No. I will laugh at them at every opportunity. It's my duty.:agree:

surreyhibbie
26-11-2011, 05:54 PM
In our current state, laughing at that lot is about all we have mate.

I totally disagree with the title of the thread.

But the rest of your post makes sense. Let's have someone solely concentrating on the football side.

Bostonhibby
26-11-2011, 05:55 PM
No. I will laugh at them at every opportunity. It's my duty.:agree:

Alright then, its a deal. :greengrin

IWasThere2016
26-11-2011, 05:57 PM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

For more than twenty years I was a management consultant, working at board level all over the world in international businesses. For the life of me I cannot work out what it is that all these people could possibly be doing on a day-to-day basis that adds value to a business as small as Hibernian Football Club.

I note, on the other hand, that among this small army of five directors of something and two directors of nothing there is no "Director of Football". This is a bit like a small business that is entirely dependent on manufacturing, which has seven directors, none of whom is a director of production and none of whom has any background in production or manufacturing.

In modern football a manager is lucky if he enjoys a lifespan of three years at a club. Only one of the current SPL incumbents has been in his job that long, and more than half of them have served less than a year. It is overoptimistic, bordering on stupid, to expect that a man whose career horizon stetches out for a year or two if he is lucky is going to be thinking about a football strategy that looks forward four or five years.

If I was the Chairman of a modern football club the first and most important board appointment I would want to make would be a Director of Football, whose job would be to oversee and manage a long-term football strategy. I would try to make room for him by running my small football club with fewer than five other directors of something and two directors of nothing.

There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club. That's just one of them. I can think of a few more. Maybe other people can too. I also have one or two suggestions to put forward.

Spot on - although our income is c£7m (and should fall below that level this year).

I too have a consultancy background, and have been a Finance Director for 6 years now and our set up is OTT and overly expensive IMHO (regardless of the statement at the recent AGM). Nowt will change until RP goes however..

BEEJ
26-11-2011, 06:14 PM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

For more than twenty years I was a management consultant, working at board level all over the world in international businesses. For the life of me I cannot work out what it is that all these people could possibly be doing on a day-to-day basis that adds value to a business as small as Hibernian Football Club.

I note, on the other hand, that among this small army of five directors of something and two directors of nothing there is no "Director of Football". This is a bit like a small business that is entirely dependent on manufacturing, which has seven directors, none of whom is a director of production and none of whom has any background in production or manufacturing.
Annual turnover of £7m - we haven't had income approaching £10m since 2006/07.

Neither of the non-execs, Bruce Langham and Amanda Jones, receive a salary from the club. As from August this year RP (now a non-exec Chairman, perhaps) does not receive a salary either.

As I recall Amanda Jones is a lawyer who specialises in employment law, which is an important skill-set for our club to be able to call upon. Bruce Langham has served on the Boards of other football clubs (e.g Aston Villa) prior to coming to ER. So hopefully he brings at the very least a network of contacts in the game.

However, I'm sure the Finance Director and Club Secretary roles could be combined to make space for a Director of Football if one was deemed necessary.

The Falcon
26-11-2011, 06:16 PM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

Its Farmers modus operandi. Gets those he wants in key positions and makes them directors, often with a shareholding to boot.

Alfred E Newman
26-11-2011, 06:22 PM
No. I will laugh at them at every opportunity. It's my duty.:agree:

Sadly, on average there always seem to be more laughs heading in the opposite direction.

Hibercelona
26-11-2011, 06:30 PM
Fact of the matter is, we don't need all these men at the top.

The only reason they're there is so Rod and his pals can keep their mansions and fancy cars.

No doubt i'll get flamed, but to be honest, i'm well beyond the point of caring.

Baldy Foghorn
26-11-2011, 06:35 PM
I have been annoyed recently but refrained from saying anything until this thread appeared....

Recently there was 18 threads on the main page laughing at HMFC's plight.....We really should be concentrating on our own sorry current situation before gloating over these balloons from the West Side....

Things are far from rosy in our garden at present..................

Andy74
26-11-2011, 06:46 PM
Why do people think Hearts are still doing better than us?

Overspending on a squad of 60 players getting paid a lot better than ours.

So, those of us having a laugh are doing so because it will not make a difference today but pretty soon the tables will be turned and probably thereafter for a long, long time.

Most of our issues can be solved with a bit of hard work and signing a back four. Hearts issues can't be solved that way.

Management consultant talking about jobs that aren't needed. Classic.

Davy Mac
26-11-2011, 06:55 PM
We pay our players and are losing / below the yams in the league

They don't pay their players and are above us in the league / winning

Frustrating ? :rolleyes:

Says a lot about their Manager though, in fact I reckon he's probably getting paid what Yogi & Calderwood got paid put together.

They look like an organised team where as we look unfit, uninterested and full of loser mentality.

Let's hope Pat knows how to get the best out of people because by god we need it.

The Falcon
26-11-2011, 06:56 PM
Why do people think Hearts are still doing better than us?

Overspending on a squad of 60 players getting paid a lot better than ours.

So, those of us having a laugh are doing so because it will not make a difference today but pretty soon the tables will be turned and probably thereafter for a long, long time.

Most of our issues can be solved with a bit of hard work and signing a back four. Hearts issues can't be solved that way.

Management consultant talking about jobs that aren't needed. Classic.

And their "Finance Director" has just resigned and was announced on their website. The same website has a "board of director's" listed but said finance director was never listed on it. Neither is Vlad mind.

greenlex
26-11-2011, 07:11 PM
I have been annoyed recently but refrained from saying anything until this thread appeared....

Recently there was 18 threads on the main page laughing at HMFC's plight.....We really should be concentrating on our own sorry current situation before gloating over these balloons from the West Side....

Things are far from rosy in our garden at present..................

I am concentrating on our poor showing but I think it ok to laugh at their predicament too. I know for sure which boat I would rather be in regardless.:greengrin
We will get out our situation a whole lot easier than they will get out of theirs.

jabis
26-11-2011, 07:47 PM
I wasn't aware that I was suggesting that the solution to Hibs problems lies in hiring consultants. But for what it's worth, it seems to me that the group of people currently running our club share a lot in common with the people who were responsible for Edinburgh's non-existent tram system, not least in terms of the quality of their results.

when the trams get their infastructure completed,THEN,and only then can you spout this heehaw !

Hibernia Na Eir
26-11-2011, 08:11 PM
hearts did us a favour today!

Feed McGraw
26-11-2011, 08:22 PM
No. I will laugh at them at every opportunity. It's my duty.:agree:

Mine too, and seeing as it`s my 200th one -fingered sloth like post, I`m going to add **** the Sparryheid morons as well. :greengrin

































:greengrin

fat freddy
26-11-2011, 08:37 PM
with the raw material being provided by the comedians running hearts at the moment it would be very difficult to refrain from laughing at them...they're just too funny at the moment...imagine if the shoe was on the other foot?...they'd be having a field day, and rightly so.

sahib
26-11-2011, 08:44 PM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

For more than twenty years I was a management consultant, working at board level all over the world in international businesses. For the life of me I cannot work out what it is that all these people could possibly be doing on a day-to-day basis that adds value to a business as small as Hibernian Football Club.

I note, on the other hand, that among this small army of five directors of something and two directors of nothing there is no "Director of Football". This is a bit like a small business that is entirely dependent on manufacturing, which has seven directors, none of whom is a director of production and none of whom has any background in production or manufacturing.

In modern football a manager is lucky if he enjoys a lifespan of three years at a club. Only one of the current SPL incumbents has been in his job that long, and more than half of them have served less than a year. It is overoptimistic, bordering on stupid, to expect that a man whose career horizon stetches out for a year or two if he is lucky is going to be thinking about a football strategy that looks forward four or five years.

If I was the Chairman of a modern football club the first and most important board appointment I would want to make would be a Director of Football, whose job would be to oversee and manage a long-term football strategy. I would try to make room for him by running my small football club with fewer than five other directors of something and two directors of nothing.

There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club. That's just one of them. I can think of a few more. Maybe other people can too. I also have one or two suggestions to put forward.

A small business may not need all these directors but any gravy train, worth the title, does.

s.a.m
26-11-2011, 08:47 PM
I don't want to sound like I'm boasting here, but I'm a full-time parent, and I'm absolutely olympic standard at multi-tasking. And some. I would like to reassure you that my ability to be miserable about Hibs' plight is not diminished one iota by my enjoyment of Hearts' public unravelling.

Twa Cairpets
26-11-2011, 08:49 PM
The laughing at Hearts and the problems we may or may or may not have are not linked.

Stopping laughing at Hearts will have no impact on what our club or the way its run, so I for one will continue to get my yucks at the comedy circus over by.

Couple of good points in the OP re size of board though.

jdships
26-11-2011, 08:55 PM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

For more than twenty years I was a management consultant, working at board level all over the world in international businesses. For the life of me I cannot work out what it is that all these people could possibly be doing on a day-to-day basis that adds value to a business as small as Hibernian Football Club.

I note, on the other hand, that among this small army of five directors of something and two directors of nothing there is no "Director of Football". This is a bit like a small business that is entirely dependent on manufacturing, which has seven directors, none of whom is a director of production and none of whom has any background in production or manufacturing.

In modern football a manager is lucky if he enjoys a lifespan of three years at a club. Only one of the current SPL incumbents has been in his job that long, and more than half of them have served less than a year. It is overoptimistic, bordering on stupid, to expect that a man whose career horizon stetches out for a year or two if he is lucky is going to be thinking about a football strategy that looks forward four or five years.

If I was the Chairman of a modern football club the first and most important board appointment I would want to make would be a Director of Football, whose job would be to oversee and manage a long-term football strategy. I would try to make room for him by running my small football club with fewer than five other directors of something and two directors of nothing.

There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club. That's just one of them. I can think of a few more. Maybe other people can too. I also have one or two suggestions to put forward.



While I agree with most of what you write from my experience of 30 years senior management Consultants/Lawyers cost company's more money than they earned them .
" We are bringing in Consultants to look at ............................" was the message . Nine times out of ten these people had little or no experience of man management or of the sector they were reporting on .
" There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club." :top marks

Andy74
26-11-2011, 08:58 PM
Looks to me like we only have a reasonable amount of salaried positions and some who are essentially volunteers providing some knowledge and experience.

We have a Director responsible for the footballing side and one for the operations and stadium side.

We have a finance director and a club secretary.

I think these aren't combined because the secretary deals with football administration.

Doesn't seem unreasonable and would be pretty irrelevant if the players we signed were a bit better at their jobs. That's up to the manager and the board have acted reasonably quickly when that person hasn't done their job. Of course picking the manager is another question.

Nailrod
27-11-2011, 09:14 AM
Looks to me like we only have a reasonable amount of salaried positions and some who are essentially volunteers providing some knowledge and experience.

We have a Director responsible for the footballing side and one for the operations and stadium side.

We have a finance director and a club secretary.

I think these aren't combined because the secretary deals with football administration.

This may come as a shock to you but "being responsible for something" isn't actually a job. I'm not interested in what these people are "responsible for". I'm interested in what they do. And considering we also have a commercial and corporate manager who isn't a Board-level Director - who presumably has a full-time job looking after commercial and corporate matters - plus an assorted staff of admin, accounting, and IT people, I am still strugglng to work out what it is that these Directors of ours actually do.

I'm glad we have a Director "responsible for the footballing side" (I wonder what he thinks of the way our football has developed over the last five years). Let's make a straight swop - get rid of him and replace him with a Director of Football who knows something about football rather than networking, gladhanding, moving and shaking, and generally being a important figure in the world of football clubs...

And let's have the head of accounts, the commercial manager, and the IT guy all reporting directly to one Chief Executive.

The Club Secretary is reponsible for football admin - let's have him responsible for infrastructure and facilities as well.

Things are looking good, guys. We're now squandering one less Directorial salary, and we've got a Director of Football!

I realise cutting-edige expertise in employment law should at or near the top of a football club's list of priorities, and well ahead of anything to do with playing football, but by now Hibs ought to have amassed one of the world's biggest databases in hiring people and then firing them again. Perhaps we could thank the lady for her generous services, and replace her with a non-salaried non-executive Director who knows something about the game - perhaps a retired former footballer with an affection for and interest in the club. He could support the Diirector of Football... anybody think of any candidates?

Wake that other guy up and ask what he does.

That only leaves the Chairman. Now it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a guy who has never risked a penny of his own money in the club but who has taken something around a million pounds or more in salary over the years and owns ten per cent of several millions of pounds worth of infrastrucutre that was paid for by money from player sales and from the fans, should put something back into the club. But to be honest the thing I most wish he would put into the club would be a letter of resignation.

Andy74
27-11-2011, 09:17 AM
This may come as a shock to you but "being responsible for something" isn't actually a job. I'm not interested in what these people are "responsible for". I'm interested in what they do. And considering we also have a commercial and corporate manager who isn't a Board-level Director - who presumably has a full-time job looking after commercial and corporate matters - plus an assorted staff of admin, accounting, and IT people, I am still strugglng to work out what it is that these Directors of ours actually do.

I'm glad we have a Director "responsible for the footballing side" (I wonder what he thinks of the way our football has developed over the last five years). Let's make a straight swop - get rid of him and replace him with a Director of Football who knows something about football rather than networking, gladhanding, moving and shaking, and generally being a important figure in the world of football clubs...

And let's have the head of accounts, the commercial manager, and the IT guy all reporting directly to one Chief Executive.

The Club Secretary is reponsible for football admin - let's have him responsible for infrastructure and facilities as well.

Things are looking good, guys. We're now squandering one less Directorial salary, and we've got a Director of Football!

I realise cutting-edige expertise in employment law should at or near the top of a football club's list of priorities, and well ahead of anything to do with playing football, but by now Hibs ought to have amassed one of the world's biggest databases in hiring people and then firing them again. Perhaps we could thank the lady for her generous services, and replace her with a non-salaried non-executive Director who knows something about the game - perhaps a retired former footballer with an affection for and interest in the club. He could support the Diirector of Football... anybody think of any candidates?

Wake that other guy up and ask what he does.

That only leaves the Chairman. Now it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a guy who has never risked a penny of his own money in the club but who has taken something around a million pounds or more in salary over the years and owns ten per cent of several millions of pounds worth of infrastrucutre that was paid for by money from player sales and from the fans, should put something back into the club. But to be honest the thing I most wish he would put into the club would be a letter of resignation.

Great. That's sorted then.

Hibrandenburg
27-11-2011, 09:25 AM
Perfectly normal for a Hibs fan to laugh at the Yams at every opportunity. If you sympathise with them or are jealous in anyway, then maybe you are a closet Yam?

Kaiser1962
27-11-2011, 09:32 AM
Great. That's sorted then.

Yip. Piece of piss.


I dont get, or understand, this obsession with our directors. Last time we had someone in the DOF role we got relegated if I recall correctly.

jdships
27-11-2011, 09:37 AM
Great. That's sorted then.

:top marks:thumbsup::not worth

greenginger
27-11-2011, 09:44 AM
Personally I consider myself a multi-tasker, and feel quite capable of Yam mocking and worrying about Hibs in equal amounts.


As for those who wish to "stop laughing at Hearts" can you suggest any drugs that can keep smiles off of faces when reading about the said Comedy Club ? :greengrin

Nailrod
27-11-2011, 11:16 AM
Great. That's sorted then.

Pardon me for asking, but aren't you the twonk who used to tell us week after week how great Alan O'Brien was going to be once he had settled in / was fully fit / had a few games under his belt / had got his confidence up...

Alan O'Brien. Attacking winger. Two years. One assist. Cost against results delivered, the worst player ever to grace Easter Road. And you thought he was great. I think I see a pattern emerging.

Nailrod
27-11-2011, 11:26 AM
I dont get, or understand, this obsession with our directors. Last time we had someone in the DOF role we got relegated if I recall correctly.

I understand that it's very hard for some people to get their heads round this, but I'm interested (not obsessed - if you want to see 'obsession' at work go and count Andy74's posts about AO'B) in the issue of our directors because as I see it they're the guardians of the long term future of the club. They are the ones who set the strategy and make sure things are going according to that plan. If that's not their role, then what purpose do they serve? What are they for? And who is responsible for the long-term strategy of the club?

And right now, either we have no long-term strategy, or we have a strategy and it's rank rotten rubbish.

That's why I'm deeply concerned about (or as you would prefer it, 'obsessed with') with the Directors, and who they are, and what they're doing, and what they're not doing.

Nailrod
27-11-2011, 11:31 AM
HEY EVERYBODY! I'M JUST SO FRIGGIN' HAPPY WITH THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING AT THE CLUB RIGHT NOW! ISN'T EVERYTHING FANTASTIC? :top marks:thumbsup::not worth

Ther. Fixed that for you. :rolleyes:

greenlex
27-11-2011, 11:36 AM
I understand that it's very hard for some people to get their heads round this, but I'm interested (not obsessed - if you want to see 'obsession' at work go and count Andy74's posts about AO'B) in the issue of our directors because as I see it they're the guardians of the long term future of the club. They are the ones who set the strategy and make sure things are going according to that plan. If that's not their role, then what purpose do they serve? What are they for? And who is responsible for the long-term strategy of the club?

And right now, either we have no long-term strategy, or we have a strategy and it's rank rotten rubbish.

That's why I'm deeply concerned about (or as you would prefer it, 'obsessed with') with the Directors, and who they are, and what they're doing, and what they're not doing.
I think there is a strategy and it is clear for everyone to see. I am sure it's available somewhere. Infrastructure in pace to allow us to grow within our means. The footballing side will always be up and down. It's been more down of late but three managers in four years is testament that the board don't just sit by and look at the balance sheet. It's all about the football but it has to be delivered within our means. The platform to grow as a club is in place so get it right on the park and we will grow.
Spending a pound less than we earn or some other phrase close to that was used.
Maybe another boardroom reshuffle is needed with a bit of trimming but I think tats the least of our worries right now.
I know it's hard to lose sight of the above when the footballs crap and has been for two and a half years.

grunt
27-11-2011, 11:44 AM
This may come as a shock to you but ... blah blah
Seems to me that you are exhibiting classic management consultant behaviour - laying down the law about how the club should be run and what each director should do - without any understanding of the facts about what they actually do or how the club is run. I always thought that good consultants took time and effort to ascertain the facts, then made their judgements based on those facts.

matty_f
27-11-2011, 11:56 AM
If nothing else, this thread has shown how little any of us actually know about what it takes to run a football club the size if Hibernian.

I include myself in that statement, by the way.

NORTHERNHIBBY
27-11-2011, 12:01 PM
Right now, I am no sure if the bigger point is that people are laughing at the state in football in the capital, period. Come the day of reckoning, in January, Hearts are going to have to sell their first team squad to try to secure a viable future for the club? Arguably, come January, we may be facing the same scenario albeit for different reasons.

Twa Cairpets
27-11-2011, 12:03 PM
Seems to me that you are exhibiting classic management consultant behaviour - laying down the law about how the club should be run and what each director should do - without any understanding of the facts about what they actually do or how the club is run. I always thought that good consultants took time and effort to ascertain the facts, then made their judgements based on those facts.

Good post.

Nailrod, the earlier bit about "responsible for something" not equating to "doing something" is assumptive waffle.

I dont know what the day-to-day activities of any of the Directors/managers at ER is, and neither do you, I suspect. If you're "responsible for", say, finance in any mid-sized business, it's unlikely you'll be spending your day personally chasing creditors or raising invoices. What you will be doing is managing the function, the staff, meeting with other areas of the business to ensure things are progressing in line with your departmental and wider business goals etc.

Questioning why we have as many Directors is a valid point. Making things up and/or criticising on the basis of assumption is a very poor starting position to argue your point.

You've also not made any response to any of the posters who have quite rightly suggested that laughing at the bizareness and impending doom over the road is entirley unrelated to the need to "put our own house in order"

Kaiser1962
27-11-2011, 12:09 PM
I understand that it's very hard for some people to get their heads round this, but I'm interested (not obsessed - if you want to see 'obsession' at work go and count Andy74's posts about AO'B) in the issue of our directors because as I see it they're the guardians of the long term future of the club. They are the ones who set the strategy and make sure things are going according to that plan.

If that's not their role, then what purpose do they serve? What are they for? And who is responsible for the long-term strategy of the club?

And right now, either we have no long-term strategy, or we have a strategy and it's rank rotten rubbish.

That's why I'm deeply concerned about (or as you would prefer it, 'obsessed with') with the Directors, and who they are, and what they're doing, and what they're not doing.


Their purpose is to act in the best interests, and on the instructions of, the owner(s) whilst safeguarding the future of the club.

Kaiser1962
27-11-2011, 12:11 PM
Ther. Fixed that for you. :rolleyes:

I dont think any of us are happy. Perhaps we need a management consultant :wink:

Chibs
27-11-2011, 02:15 PM
thats like asking me to stop laughing at laurel and hardy.

by the way nailrod have you ever applied for a job at easter road and been kb'd.

you sound like one bitter S.O.B.

Nailrod
27-11-2011, 02:34 PM
Good post.

Nailrod, the earlier bit about "responsible for something" not equating to "doing something" is assumptive waffle.

I dont know what the day-to-day activities of any of the Directors/managers at ER is, and neither do you, I suspect. If you're "responsible for", say, finance in any mid-sized business, it's unlikely you'll be spending your day personally chasing creditors or raising invoices. What you will be doing is managing the function, the staff, meeting with other areas of the business to ensure things are progressing in line with your departmental and wider business goals etc.

Questioning why we have as many Directors is a valid point. Making things up and/or criticising on the basis of assumption is a very poor starting position to argue your point.

You've also not made any response to any of the posters who have quite rightly suggested that laughing at the bizareness and impending doom over the road is entirley unrelated to the need to "put our own house in order"

Get real. Hibernian Football Club isn't a mid-size business. It's a small business.There really aren't millions, or even thousands, of transactions to be managed on a daily basis. There are probably a few dozen, and 90% of the time they are going to be the same. What exactly do you think the Fianance Director has to talk about in these lengthy strategic meetings that you envisage with his staff?

"Have the takings been banked, have the wages been paid, have the suppliers' bills been settled, have the direct debits gone out?"

"Well, sir, it's really very difficult to say, due to the complex nature of our business..."

What, specifically, is discussed in these mighty strategic meetings between the Chairman, Managing Director, Executive Director, Finance Director, and Club Secretary?

"So, have the takings been banked, have the wages been paid, have the suppliers' bills been settled, have the direct debits gone out?"

"Well, gentlemen, it's really very difficult to say, due to the complex nature of our business..."

Asking questions about what these people do all day long for their tens of thousands of pounds is legitmate. Filling their days with grandiose and entirely notional activity is "assumptive waffle".

With regard to your question about laughing at the yams, the title of the thread wasn't meant to be taken literally. People can and should laugh as hard as they like about the yams. In fact they will need to laugh extra loud, as the sound of your voice tends to get muffled when your head is buried in the sand.

Kaiser1962
27-11-2011, 02:57 PM
Get real. Hibernian Football Club isn't a mid-size business. It's a small business.




What criteria are you using to define Hibernian Football Club as a small business?

Most of the definitive criterion I have worked with would categorise the Football Club as a "medium sized" business.

You seem to be focusing on job titles rather than actual function it would appear.

Nailrod
27-11-2011, 03:26 PM
I think there is a strategy and it is clear for everyone to see. I am sure it's available somewhere. Infrastructure in pace to allow us to grow within our means. The footballing side will always be up and down. It's been more down of late but three managers in four years is testament that the board don't just sit by and look at the balance sheet. It's all about the football but it has to be delivered within our means. The platform to grow as a club is in place so get it right on the park and we will grow.
Spending a pound less than we earn or some other phrase close to that was used.
Maybe another boardroom reshuffle is needed with a bit of trimming but I think tats the least of our worries right now.
I know it's hard to lose sight of the above when the footballs crap and has been for two and a half years.

I keep hearing "The infrastucture! But the infrastructure!"

Essentially the infrastructure boils down to two things: East Mains, and the East Stand. The East stand is of vanishingly small relevance to our performance on the pitch, and cannot and will not make any contribution to improving our football. East Mains could and should have made some contribution to improved performances on the park. It is worth bearing in mind that the place opened five managers ago. If that was the strategy, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that it's not working.

We're not growing. We're shrinking. We're shedding support. And revenues with it. Yet again we're stuck in a relegation battle, and I haven't the slightest doubt that among our fellow strugglers, right now we're the oppostion of choice.

The football is indeed crap. It is now more than two years since we produced anything resembling a memorable performance at Easter Road, in any competition, against any worthwhile opposition. More than two years since the fans walked out of the ground with joy in their hearts and slapped the top of the gate, saying to themselves "That's why I'm a Hibby!" Two years. Not one performance to stir the blood. Over the same period we have been thrashed repeatedly at home and away (By thrashing I mean 3-0 or more than 4 conceded). Pretty much every team in the SPL however humble, has managed to thrash us at least once. Hearts have been sporting enough not to actually thrash us over this period, just to nearly always beat us.

Two years. But hey. Who's counting? Things are great. The strategy's great. Lets all laugh at jam tarts. They're clowns :jamboclow. They're ostritches :ostrich:. They're trumpets :trumpet:. They're going bust. Let's all laugh at them. :yamlaugh:.

Hibercelona
27-11-2011, 03:33 PM
I love ripping into Hearts. But if they end up finishing comfortably above us this season even with their first team squad out the door, then what does that say about our own class?

We can laugh at what goes on behind the curtains at the looney bin arena, but i'd rather see us getting it right on our own main stage before we fly off the handle about the state they're in.

Kaiser1962
27-11-2011, 03:42 PM
I love ripping into Hearts. But if they end up finishing comfortably above us this season even with their first team squad out the door, then what does that say about our own class?

We can laugh at what goes on behind the curtains at the looney bin arena, but i'd rather see us getting it right on our own main stage before we fly off the handle about the state they're in.

Thats the annoying bit they are, but at what cost? And is the price they are about to pay worth it? While that remains a matter of choice theres the small issue of finding some mugs to finance it. In Hearts case the funders are, unfortunately, probably unwilling and unwitting Lithuanian pension funds.

I wouldnt swap with them in a zillion years and can only reiterate the articulate points made already by Bob and Dod. The longer, slower and more painful their demise the more chance there is I might piss myself.

Hibercelona
27-11-2011, 03:52 PM
Thats the annoying bit they are, but at what cost? And is the price they are about to pay worth it? While that remains a matter of choice theres the small issue of finding some mugs to finance it. In Hearts case the funders are, unfortunately, probably unwilling and unwitting Lithuanian pension funds.

I wouldnt swap with them in a zillion years and can only reiterate the articulate points made already by Bob and Dod. The longer, slower and more painful their demise the more chance there is I might piss myself.

Of course its not worth it in a financial sense.

But the frusrating thing about it is, we could be paying more out on wages than them in the near future and they'll probably still bully us around the park. They always have a stronger will to win than we do. They're capable of scraping 1-0 and 2-1 wins quite regularly, which is why they're almost always above us. With the facilities that we have available, why can't we do the simple dirty task of grinding out results?

Its always been the same and its extremely sickening.

heretoday
27-11-2011, 04:58 PM
I never laugh at Hearts. They're not funny. Neither are Hibs.

Actually, football isn't funny any more really. Gone are the days when we'd stand on the terrace and guffaw at guys like Ally Brazil or Ernie Winchester.

What went wrong?

Dashing Bob S
27-11-2011, 05:00 PM
It's in their own hands. They stop being ridiculous, we stop laughing.

Wait...that's impossible.

hibsbollah
27-11-2011, 05:13 PM
I never laugh at Hearts. They're not funny. Neither are Hibs.Actually, football isn't funny any more really. Gone are the days when we'd stand on the terrace and guffaw at guys like Ally Brazil or Ernie Winchester.What went wrong?Disagree. In the last 12 months or so i have recently pished myself laughing at Ed de Graaf, Graham Stack (as recently as this month), a Sproule fresh air shot and two Akpo Sodje attempts on goal which threatened the earths gravitational pull.While not quite up there with an Amadou Konte dive in the 'guffaw' stakes, theres still plenty of laughs to be had in the current set up.

Twa Cairpets
27-11-2011, 05:15 PM
Get real. Hibernian Football Club isn't a mid-size business. It's a small business.There really aren't millions, or even thousands, of transactions to be managed on a daily basis.

Well, you're just wrong on this one. Heres a link (http://www.lib.strath.ac.uk/busweb/guides/smedefine.htm)defining the sizes of businesses in the UK. If you dont mind me saying, it worries me a little that "a management consultant working at board level internationally" wouldnt be aware of this.


There are probably a few dozen, and 90% of the time they are going to be the same. What exactly do you think the Fianance Director has to talk about in these lengthy strategic meetings that you envisage with his staff?

"Have the takings been banked, have the wages been paid, have the suppliers' bills been settled, have the direct debits gone out?"

"Well, sir, it's really very difficult to say, due to the complex nature of our business..."

What, specifically, is discussed in these mighty strategic meetings between the Chairman, Managing Director, Executive Director, Finance Director, and Club Secretary?

"So, have the takings been banked, have the wages been paid, have the suppliers' bills been settled, have the direct debits gone out?"

"Well, gentlemen, it's really very difficult to say, due to the complex nature of our business..."

Again, this makes me wonder precisely the nature of the consultancy you've carried out. My FD at my previous business (medium sized, but smaller than Hibs) found plenty to do to fill his day, I promise you. Youve chosen to take a very literal interpretation of my post, which is fair enough. Are you suggesting that a £10M business doent need a Finance Director, because apparently all they do is the banking and wages?


Asking questions about what these people do all day long for their tens of thousands of pounds is legitmate. Filling their days with grandiose and entirely notional activity is "assumptive waffle".

Yes, it is legitimate to ask questions, and if you read back my posts you'll see I agree with you. What isnt legitimate is to approach it with an assumption of guilt on behalf of the board. Can you give a single piece of evidence that they fill their days with "grandiose and entirley notional activity"? Maybe they do, I dont know, but neither do you and repeatedly stating it as an assumed fact doesnt make it so.


With regard to your question about laughing at the yams, the title of the thread wasn't meant to be taken literally. People can and should laugh as hard as they like about the yams. In fact they will need to laugh extra loud, as the sound of your voice tends to get muffled when your head is buried in the sand.

Oh I'm sorry. When there's a thread title like yours and an OP containing the sentence "There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club. That's just one of them. I can think of a few more..." I thought that might be what the thread is about. Silly me.

The Falcon
28-11-2011, 09:06 AM
Two years. But hey. Who's counting? Things are great. The strategy's great. Lets all laugh at jam tarts. They're clowns :jamboclow. They're ostritches :ostrich:. They're trumpets :trumpet:. They're going bust. Let's all laugh at them. :yamlaugh:.


Things are far from great. The strategy is, however, sound although it's execution has been disappointing. As another poster pointed out our future is not at risk, there's is. Lets stop admiring them though, I like laughing at their stupidity much more.

johnrebus
28-11-2011, 09:40 AM
I'm intending to put a couple of posts on this thread. But this one will do for starters.

Hibernian Football Club is a small business, turning over around £10 million a year. It is also a simple business. Most of its income comes from just two or three streams, and most of its outgoings go on just two or three streams.

For some reason, in order to run this business, we need seven Directors. We need a Chairman, an Executive Director, a Managing Director, a Finance Director, a Club Secretary, and two Directors of Nothing.

For more than twenty years I was a management consultant, working at board level all over the world in international businesses. For the life of me I cannot work out what it is that all these people could possibly be doing on a day-to-day basis that adds value to a business as small as Hibernian Football Club.

I note, on the other hand, that among this small army of five directors of something and two directors of nothing there is no "Director of Football". This is a bit like a small business that is entirely dependent on manufacturing, which has seven directors, none of whom is a director of production and none of whom has any background in production or manufacturing.

In modern football a manager is lucky if he enjoys a lifespan of three years at a club. Only one of the current SPL incumbents has been in his job that long, and more than half of them have served less than a year. It is overoptimistic, bordering on stupid, to expect that a man whose career horizon stetches out for a year or two if he is lucky is going to be thinking about a football strategy that looks forward four or five years.

If I was the Chairman of a modern football club the first and most important board appointment I would want to make would be a Director of Football, whose job would be to oversee and manage a long-term football strategy. I would try to make room for him by running my small football club with fewer than five other directors of something and two directors of nothing.

There are a lot of reasons why it's time we stopped laughing at Hearts and started thinking about our own club. That's just one of them. I can think of a few more. Maybe other people can too. I also have one or two suggestions to put forward.


Well, I've twied and I've twied until my head weally hurts, but I can't think of any weason to stop laffing at Hawrts.


Sawy.

:dizzy: