PDA

View Full Version : standing room only



sidjames
22-11-2011, 10:40 AM
The SPL gadge has just said on talkspish that they would consider a pilot scheme for a standing section if a club offered. Lower tier of FF next season? Also said Glasgow teams could play SPL games abroad, hopefully all of them.

mickki40
22-11-2011, 10:45 AM
I would welcome standing in the FF for the singing section tbf. It would give them a place to sing and bounce around without some people moaning. If you are going into a standing section, make sure though you would want to move about a bit. I mean that some Hibs fans would go in there then moan it's too noisy...too packed. Too many people making noise and supporting the team. I will bet my bottom dollar that it will happen.

Big Frank
22-11-2011, 11:01 AM
Remove the seats of the lower FF would be great!

It would be filled for each game.

It would be the start of us getting back our football.

However, there will be some detractors on Hibs.net who will automatically think that by letting some fans stand at a game we will also have pish pouring down the steps, the gorgie aggro reforming and fighting the CCS, an upsurge in bunnet sales etc etc :bye:

Keith_M
22-11-2011, 11:03 AM
Remove the seats of the lower FF would be great!

It would be filled for each game.

It would be the start of us getting back our football.

However, there will be some detractors on Hibs.net who will automatically think that by letting some fans stand at a game we will also have pish pouring down the steps, the gorgie aggro reforming and fighting the CCS, an upsurge in bunnet sales etc etc :bye:


That all sounds good to me :greengrin

green&left
22-11-2011, 11:06 AM
Sounds promising.

Always had the demand at Hibs, those who stood in the Terracing before it was (sadly) flattened didn't go for the top facilities and brilliant views, went as you could stand in peace.

Nothing unsafe about standing, even infront of seats. Every team in the continent has an end designated for standing, only the Germans have went the full hog and opted for the terraces. Hopefully Hibs and the SPL see sense on this.

Punishing fans for the crime of standing up is completely mental, especially when you consider in Scottish stadiums there are usually more empty seats than there are fans at the actual games!

frazeHFC
22-11-2011, 11:08 AM
Why FF, why not the East where the singing section is?

Purehibee_MYB
22-11-2011, 11:09 AM
Would love to see it introduced!

In Germany, instead of seats they have a designated small square for each ticket meaning it doesn't get packed too much...would love to see something similar at Easter Road

sidjames
22-11-2011, 11:40 AM
Hibs have always been at the forefront of new developments. This might be worthy of serious consideration. On the point of the fans being BTG, this is the most popular area. Even before when you could freely circulate the ground the younger more vocal element always congregated there. Later if you still wanted to be noisy you graduated to the old North. If you were a mature nutter you went in the North Enclosure like me!

Keith_M
22-11-2011, 12:06 PM
Why FF, why not the East where the singing section is?


I'm sure that wouldn't be allowed as it's too steep for terracing. The FF lower isn't quite so steep so it might be easier to get a safety certificate.


The thing is, I can't see Hibs going for this (much as I'd like to see it myself) as there's nothing in it for them. It would cost money, presumably quite a lot, to convert any seated area to terracing and I can't see there being a financial benefit to the club. They would logically have to charge less for entry to that area so they could end up losing money.

bod
22-11-2011, 12:14 PM
Bottom tier behind both goals would be ideal

sidjames
22-11-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm sure that wouldn't be allowed as it's too steep for terracing. The FF lower isn't quite so steep so it might be easier to get a safety certificate.


The thing is, I can't see Hibs going for this (much as I'd like to see it myself) as there's nothing in it for them. It would cost money, presumably quite a lot, to convert any seated area to terracing and I can't see there being a financial benefit to the club. They would logically have to charge less for entry to that area so they could end up losing money.

Well publicity for a start, novelty value and more colour and noise in a well defined area close to the pitch. It works well abroad. All the Spanish clubs encourage it from as little as a couple of hundred to thousands at some clubs. The more I think on this the more I think Hibs could be the perfect vehicle to showcase this and cash in.

Keith_M
22-11-2011, 12:18 PM
Well publicity for a start, novelty value and more colour and noise in a well defined area close to the pitch. It works well abroad. All the Spanish clubs encourage it from as little as a couple of hundred to thousands at some clubs. The more I think on this the more I think Hibs could be the perfect vehicle to showcase this and cash in.


I agree with all of that but it's just not the way the minds of the Hibs Board members work. The bottom line is all that counts, not some intangible (financially) benefit.

sidjames
22-11-2011, 12:27 PM
I agree with all of that but it's just not the way the minds of the Hibs Board members work. The bottom line is all that counts, not some intangible (financially) benefit.

Well in that case I think I should be called upon to immediately be appointed Project Manager (funded by a 15,000 grant from EDC.) I Will deliver for said fee Scotland's first standing area by August next year. As it happens I can clear my diary and be right on it.

Hal Jordan
22-11-2011, 12:33 PM
Surely here's nothing to stop them from ripping the seats out of the few rows below the access stairs in the new East if they wanted to/could afford it...they're built into the ground so the rake could be made shallower, with a wee wall behind seperating it from the main seated bit. Standing right along the full length of the pitch
:flag:

Franck is God
22-11-2011, 12:51 PM
I see no issue with a standing enclosure in the FF lower tier as long as the tickets were priced accordingly.

When I was in my teens (sadly a while ago now) going to the games was far more affordable so therefore I rarely missed a game, its simply too expensive now so if a standing area was say half the cost £10-13 dependant on opposition then bigger crowds are possible.

jacomo
22-11-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm sure that wouldn't be allowed as it's too steep for terracing. The FF lower isn't quite so steep so it might be easier to get a safety certificate.


The thing is, I can't see Hibs going for this (much as I'd like to see it myself) as there's nothing in it for them. It would cost money, presumably quite a lot, to convert any seated area to terracing and I can't see there being a financial benefit to the club. They would logically have to charge less for entry to that area so they could end up losing money.

I can't see how Hibs would lose money as things are. Standing section would result in an immediate increase in attendance, attracting those who can't afford £25 for a ticket and of course the novelty value.

Those currently sitting in that section who didn't want to stand would move to a seat elsewhere, and I am sure others would turn up to sit but experience a hopefully improved atmosphere.

If Hibs are sold out every match then the terracing might affect the bottom line but we're a long way from that.

DC_Hibs
22-11-2011, 02:02 PM
Maybe something for one of the groups to raise at their next meeting with the club to gauge their views on it.

I'd agree with Keeko's view that its a non starter for the same reasons but definitely worth asking.

There will surely be 100% of fans behind this....after all for those that dont want to stand (like me) you can still have your pick of 18,000 seats in one of four stands -it's a no brainer!!!!!

Future17
22-11-2011, 02:07 PM
For the record, I'm 100% in favour of reintroducing standing areas at football.

I think the problem for ER would be that our new stands simply aren't designed with standing areas in mind. The middle of the East would be impossible as a standing area would impair the view for those seated either side. The same problem would exist (to a lesser extent) in the stands behind the goals.

In reality, for this to be successful, a lot of construction (or more accurately, deconstruction) work would have to be done. The planning, construction and revised safety certificate costs would probably not be justified by any increased income - but we've no real way of knowing that for sure.

We'd also have to be able to convert the standing areas back to seats (or leave them out of commission) for UEFA matches. While that may not be a problem for Hibs, it would prevent us hosting Scotland matches at any level.

bighairyfaeleith
22-11-2011, 02:21 PM
the bottom of the FF wouldn't be big enough but would be a good start

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2011, 02:52 PM
the bottom of the FF wouldn't be big enough but would be a good start

I think it would be big enough to start with, with the top section hopefully needed very quickly.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Nah......a backward step football has moved on, let's not go back!

GordonHFC
22-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Aah. The smell of pish trickling out of a Tennents lager can. Those were the days :agree:

HH81
22-11-2011, 03:09 PM
I very much doubt they would let fans stand in an upper tier section.

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2011, 03:12 PM
I very much doubt they would let fans stand in an upper tier section.

Not saying they would allow it, but they dont stop it when the bigoted 3 are in there at easter road.

DC_Hibs
22-11-2011, 03:15 PM
I very much doubt they would let fans stand in an upper tier section.

Not an issue in the away ends at Hannover or Bremen so there are clearly no safety issues if done properly.

green&left
22-11-2011, 03:23 PM
Nah......a backward step football has moved on, let's not go back!

Like The Kop is 100% stood for big games. Or the Liverpool travelling support who stand to a man at every away match..?

Nothing unsafe or backwards about standing at a football match.

Dashing Bob S
22-11-2011, 03:31 PM
Remove the seats of the lower FF would be great!

It would be filled for each game.

It would be the start of us getting back our football.

However, there will be some detractors on Hibs.net who will automatically think that by letting some fans stand at a game we will also have pish pouring down the steps, the gorgie aggro reforming and fighting the CCS, an upsurge in bunnet sales etc etc :bye:

I'd be happy enough with this, provided the workmanship in ripping the seats out was shoddy enough to guarantee holes to stumble into and supplies of jagged concrete missiles to hurl at opposition fans/players. Know us though, and our record on infrastructure, we'll take the safe an expensive option.

Elephant Stone
22-11-2011, 03:35 PM
Letting people have a pint at the games should be the priority.

Let grounds sell drinks, sort out ticket prices, get rid of jobsworth stewards and we're on the way up.

hughio
22-11-2011, 03:38 PM
Nah......a backward step football has moved on, let's not go back!

I strongly disgree.

This idea would most definately be progressive.

Billy Whizz
22-11-2011, 03:39 PM
I would welcome standing in the FF for the singing section tbf. It would give them a place to sing and bounce around without some people moaning. If you are going into a standing section, make sure though you would want to move about a bit. I mean that some Hibs fans would go in there then moan it's too noisy...too packed. Too many people making noise and supporting the team. I will bet my bottom dollar that it will happen.



Yeah get them in there out of the east!!

sidjames
22-11-2011, 03:45 PM
Its a while noW but if I as in my teens a modern version of the old shed would be barry (an that).Get big Frank in to shout oggy oggy!

sidjames
22-11-2011, 03:51 PM
Its a while noW but if I was in my teens a modern version of the old shed would be barry (an that).Get big Frank in to shout oggy oggy!

Hermit Crab
22-11-2011, 04:00 PM
The SPL gadge has just said on talkspish that they would consider a pilot scheme for a standing section if a club offered. Lower tier of FF next season? Also said Glasgow teams could play SPL games abroad, hopefully all of them.


Standing at Easter road yes please. Would move to standing section in an instant.
PETRIE!!!! Get it sorted :grr:

Bobo
22-11-2011, 04:32 PM
If standing areas were to be re-introduced to football, and Easter Road in particular, then in my opinion Hibs would be better served by creating a standing area in the corner between the Famous Five / East stands and the East / West stand. This would allow the club to guage the response from supporters without altering the structure or layout of the existing stands.

The corners of the stadium are currently dead space so it would be better to utilise these spaces to create terraced areas should any proposed pilot take place. If the pilot were to fail, the terraced areas could be converted to house additional seating to further add to the capacity of the stadium.

Just a thought :hmmm:

Keith_M
22-11-2011, 04:38 PM
I can't see how Hibs would lose money as things are. Standing section would result in an immediate increase in attendance, attracting those who can't afford £25 for a ticket and of course the novelty value.

Those currently sitting in that section who didn't want to stand would move to a seat elsewhere, and I am sure others would turn up to sit but experience a hopefully improved atmosphere.

If Hibs are sold out every match then the terracing might affect the bottom line but we're a long way from that.


If 2,000 fans that were paying an average of £20 per ticket (adult/child) are suddenly paying, say, £12.50, that's a loss of £15,000 per game. There could possibly be more people attending attracted by the lower price but it would take an increase of 1,200 every game just to make up the lost gate money. On top of that, there would would need to be even more through the gates to recoup the cost of converting the stand to terrace, possibly making up to 2,000 more required.

I realise these are all just guess amounts but, irrespective of the actual numbers, a fairly big increase would be needed.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be an increase, it's just that there's no guarantee. That's what the board would be looking at when making that decision, 'are we guaranteed in the region of 2,000 extra punters every home match if we go ahead and do this?'.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 04:41 PM
Like The Kop is 100% stood for big games. Or the Liverpool travelling support who stand to a man at every away match..?

Nothing unsafe or backwards about standing at a football match.

Yes like the Kop and like the Liverpool travelling support if you think that reference will change my opinion................which it doesn't. I never mentioned safety by the way, IMO which I am entitled to, it is a backward step. Been there, seen it, done it ,got the tee shirt! Don't want it back.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 04:42 PM
I strongly disgree.

This idea would most definately be progressive.

We'll just have to strongly agree to disagree then!

Big Frank
22-11-2011, 04:42 PM
If 2,000 fans that were paying an average of £20 per ticket (adult/child) are suddenly paying, say, £12.50, that's a loss of £15,000 per game. There could possibly be more people attending attracted by the lower price but it would take an increase of 1,200 every game just to make up the lost gate money. On top of that, there would would need to be even more through the gates to recoup the cost of converting the stand to terrace, possibly making up to 2,000 more required.

I realise these are all just guess amounts but, irrespective of the actual numbers, a fairly big increase would be needed.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be an increase, it's just that there's no guarantee. That's what the board would be looking at when making that decision, 'are we guaranteed in the region of 2,000 extra punters every home match if we go ahead and do this?'.

We are losing more than 15k a game at the minute. Naebodys going!

We are absolutely obsessed with profits & losses as a support - what about the atmosphere?

Everyone sits on the erchies, there is nae atmosphere anywhere in the SPL!

Big Frank
22-11-2011, 04:47 PM
Yes like the Kop and like the Liverpool travelling support if you think that reference will change my opinion................which it doesn't. I never mentioned safety by the way, IMO which I am entitled to, it is a backward step. Been there, seen it, done it ,got the tee shirt! Don't want it back.

Which is great.... not sure how often you are at matches up here or go to any of Hibs' away games, but you stand up and some fat radge steward is on you like a rat up a drainpipe.

Your preferred choice is to sit at matches, those who wish to stand should also have that choice. Its descrimination.:greengrin

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 04:47 PM
But the stadium would still be 80% seated, so you wouldn't have to stand.

Despite the fact that I've given financial reasons why I think Hibs won't do it, my personal feeling is that the choice should be there. You can still choose to sit and others would choose to stand.

I know that, and I don't want to see anyone else standing either!

MotherSuperior
22-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Would love to be given the choice to stand at the football; it's brutal having no option, especially during the winter months.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Which is great.... not sure how often you are at matches up here or go to any of Hibs' away games, but you stand up and some fat radge steward is on you like a rat up a drainpipe.

Your preferred choice is to sit at matches, those who wish to stand should also have that choice. Its descrimination.:greengrin

I have lived here for 20 years mate and go home and away, the Old Swan location is just to confuse people!

Keith_M
22-11-2011, 04:50 PM
I know that, and I don't want to see anyone else standing either!


So let's just all agree that you're a grumpy old git then and move on...................



:greengrin

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 04:53 PM
So let's just all agree that you're a grumpy old git then and move on...................



:greengrin

Eh Eh.....................................aye ok go on then!

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2011, 05:04 PM
For me its a simple choice, you have a place to stand if you want to, and you have a place to sit if thats want you want too.

Nobody is forcing anyone to go to the standing area if it were to come about, where is the problem?

DC_Hibs
22-11-2011, 05:14 PM
I don't want to see anyone else standing either!

That's why your opinion should be ignored as you are the 1% of miserable sods that dont like to see others enjoying themselves.
It doesnt affect you in the slightest so why bother about it.

I choose to sit every week as well (when standing sections are available in Germany) but have no issues with people being given the choice to pick what they like and enjoy the benefits it brings to the atmosphere.

Please excuse me if you are just one of the attention seeking fools happy to spend their time involved in petty arguments. Go and spend some of the time doing charity work or something else worthwhile.

Toodle.

marinello59
22-11-2011, 05:14 PM
I see no issue with a standing enclosure in the FF lower tier as long as the tickets were priced accordingly.

When I was in my teens (sadly a while ago now) going to the games was far more affordable so therefore I rarely missed a game, its simply too expensive now so if a standing area was say half the cost £10-13 dependant on opposition then bigger crowds are possible.

Given so many reckon their match experience would be greatly enhanced by standing why would it be cheaper? Surely the club will be able to charge premium rates for the priviledge. :devil:

marinello59
22-11-2011, 05:15 PM
For me its a simple choice, you have a place to stand if you want to, and you have a place to sit if thats want you want too.

Nobody is forcing anyone to go to the standing area if it were to come about, where is the problem?

Exactly.

sidjames
22-11-2011, 05:18 PM
For me its a simple choice, you have a place to stand if you want to, and you have a place to sit if thats want you want too.

Nobody is forcing anyone to go to the standing area if it were to come about, where is the problem?

Indeed. What I was suggesting was that we create an area that attracts the more vocal elements. I was at Real Betis recently, in a crowd of some 40000 there were fewer than 500 going mental just behind the goal. They made a real difference to the game atmosphere. Nothing complicated just a like minded crowd of radges. Me i was in the away end having coke chucked at me. They have a juice throwing sectuon it would appear. Think of everything they do!

Hermit Crab
22-11-2011, 05:59 PM
Maybe somebody could Email the board and suggest Hibs volunteer for it. Maybe get more folk back to the ground as standing is the preferred choice amongst some fans including me. :pray: Mon Hibs start the ball rolling. :aok:

CraigK
22-11-2011, 06:33 PM
A trial by filling in two of the corners would be a good start and wouldnt cost that much. Dunnoif there'd be much of a view though, given how steep the East is.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=DC_Hibs;2999580]That's why your opinion should be ignored as you are the 1% of miserable sods that dont like to see others enjoying themselves.
It doesnt affect you in the slightest so why bother about it.

I choose to sit every week as well (when standing sections are available in Germany) but have no issues with people being given the choice to pick what they like and enjoy the benefits it brings to the atmosphere.

Please excuse me if you are just one of the attention seeking fools happy to spend their time involved in petty arguments. Go and spend some of the time doing charity work or something else worthwhile.

Toodle.[/QUOTE

:faf: Aye right then, go and lie down in a dark room FFS

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:09 PM
Seating is safer it's as simple as that! Sign the petition to stop standing areas being brought back. There should be no standing areas brought back into top flight football.

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2011, 08:26 PM
Seating is safer it's as simple as that! Sign the petition to stop standing areas being brought back. There should be no standing areas brought back into top flight football.

Rubbish, there is standing at many grounds all over the world, with no problems at all. If its done properly there is nothing wrong with it.

bighairyfaeleith
22-11-2011, 08:35 PM
Seating is safer it's as simple as that! Sign the petition to stop standing areas being brought back. There should be no standing areas brought back into top flight football.

standing on the pavement is safer than crossing the road. Doesn't mean you can't do whichever takes your fancy

sidjames
22-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Rubbish, there is standing at many grounds all over the world, with no problems at all. If its done properly there is nothing wrong with it.

Couldn't agree more. Standing behind the goals at ER did it from age 9, before the shed was built. OnlY danger was getting smacked on the head by a bottle of Buckie, which for the record a Glasgow fan once did! Let the laddies get the chance to provide some serious vocal backing. Even in our poor periods,and there have been many the old shed was fun, yes FUN to be in.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Rubbish, there is standing at many grounds all over the world, with no problems at all. If its done properly there is nothing wrong with it.

No it's not rubbish but thanks for trying!

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:38 PM
standing on the pavement is safer than crossing the road. Doesn't mean you can't do whichever takes your fancy

Oh yeah course it is :rolleyes:

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:40 PM
Couldn't agree more. Standing behind the goals at ER did it from age 9, before the shed was built. OnlY danger was getting smacked on the head by a bottle of Buckie, which for the record a Glasgow fan once did! Let the laddies get the chance to provide some serious vocal backing. Even in our poor periods,and there have been many the old shed was fun, yes FUN to be in.


I remember when seat belts in cars weren't compulsory when I was a lad!

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2011, 08:41 PM
No it's not rubbish but thanks for trying!

Thanks for putting me right.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:43 PM
Thanks for putting me right.


Easy done!

sidjames
22-11-2011, 08:44 PM
I remember when seat belts in cars weren't compulsory when I was a lad!

Well if you ask nicely I am sure you can have one fiited to your seat at ER

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Well if you ask nicely I am sure you can have one fiited to your seat at ER

Nah far easier to follow the logic and have them removed now surely!

bighairyfaeleith
22-11-2011, 08:48 PM
Nah far easier to follow the logic and have them removed now surely!

I think we should leave logic out of your argument:wink:

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:53 PM
I think we should leave logic out of your argument:wink:

Seriously, it's a subject I feel very passionate about and no-one will convince me that bringing seated areas back into top flight football is a good idea. If the only reason people can give is for atmosphere and reasons of misguided nostalgia then it makes absolutely no sense.

Hermit Crab
22-11-2011, 08:55 PM
Seating is safer it's as simple as that! Sign the petition to stop standing areas being brought back. There should be no standing areas brought back into top flight football.


It was unsafe in years gone by before any H+S laws but now the numbers gaining access to standing areas can be controlled by ticketing Ie season tickets only section.


Indeed at nearly all premier lge ground fans stand including Liverpool.

Scouse Hibee
22-11-2011, 08:58 PM
It was unsafe in years gone by before any H+S laws but now the numbers gaining access to standing areas can be controlled by ticketing Ie season tickets only section.


Indeed at nearly all premier lge ground fans stand including Liverpool.


Fans standing in seated areas bears no comparison what so ever to standing areas. Not going to debate and argue this all night as everyone is of course entitled to their opinions even if some are misguided. I have specific reasons and experiences for my passionate belief that there is no way back for standing areas it's as simple as that. This debate will run and run with the relevant authorities. I for one sincerely hope we never see the return of standing areas and I believe there is sufficient grounds and reasoned argument to prevent it ever happening.

WarringtonHibee
22-11-2011, 09:00 PM
Fans standing in seated areas bears no comparison what so ever to standing areas.

Standing in seated areas is far far more dangerous than standing in a modern safe terracing.

I've been Sweden, safe terracing is excellent, you have your personal space with barriers in front and behind you, no one can crush you, nor can you fall half way down the stand.

Hermit Crab
22-11-2011, 09:03 PM
Fans standing in seated areas bears no comparison what so ever to standing areas.


It appears your are not bothered about fans standing in seated areas but fans wishing a return of a terraced area is a non starter for you?

down-the-slope
22-11-2011, 09:08 PM
problem with this issue is its often argued as 'bringing back standing'......but what happens at Dortmund for example where the stand is convertable between standing and seating (10,000 ish capacity in one area) is nothing like the railway sleeper blaize filled pish swilled few metal barriered...full terrace 'sways' and death traps of old....its controlled in every degree same as seating, in numbers, small sections with lots of barriers, etc etc....

its much like standing in a bar or seating in a lounge..its a prefference...but each in its own way has developed and become more sosphistoicated......

CyberSauzee
22-11-2011, 09:17 PM
St Helens will be playing in a brand new stadium next season with two terraced ends holding about 3,500+ each.

http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,13987_7309712,00.html

Can't see what the issue is these days of not bringing back standing with technology easily capable of monitoring and assisting in crowd control.