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smurf
20-11-2011, 01:10 PM
Then whoever is going to be appointed shouldn't take the job and is the wrong person to take it.

Any serious manager/coach would see his back room staff around him as his remit understanding the importance of their positions. It should be his decision whether they are at the club or not.

I think we are underestimating the importance of a manager with his team around him. If the media reports of candidates being told that the board want to retain all existing backroom staff are true then It's really not a good sign from the board...

And even more so if the new guy accepts this and takes the job...

BEEJ
20-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Finance is probably the issue. They'll want the contracts of existing backroom staff to run on rather than have to negotiate a severance package which we can ill afford right now.

Hibbyradge
20-11-2011, 01:18 PM
I haven't seen the press reports saying that, but if it's true, then we may struggle to recruit.

smurf
20-11-2011, 01:21 PM
Finance is probably the issue. They'll want the contracts of existing backroom staff to run on rather than have to negotiate a severance package which we can ill afford right now.

What we can't afford is appointing a guy with his hands tied behind his back. The entire coaching structure has been in place too long failing and if the new guy wants the lot replaced he should have the freedom to do so.

We are either serious about getting this next appointment right or not.

BroxburnHibee
20-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Then whoever is going to be appointed shouldn't take the job and is the wrong person to take it.

Any serious manager/coach would see his back room staff around him as his remit understanding the importance of their positions. It should be his decision whether they are at the club or not.

I think we are underestimating the importance of a manager with his team around him. If the media reports of candidates being told that the board want to retain all existing backroom staff are true then It's really not a good sign from the board...

And even more so if the new guy accepts this and takes the job...

I've never seen these reports - just someone saying it on here.

SneakersO'Toole
20-11-2011, 01:29 PM
Even if its not been reported in the press, I think most know the answer anyway.

FWIW Smurf, I agree with you 100%. But it won't happen unfortunately which in itself presents a glaring contradiction on the boards part.

They say that that they will never interfere with the managers responsibilities. Surely not allowing him to bring his own staff refutes that?

matty_f
20-11-2011, 01:31 PM
I haven't seen the press reports saying that, but if it's true, then we may struggle to recruit. I haven't seen them either and i agree with you. I understand money is tight at the club but a manager needs to be able to bring his own staff.

joe breezy
20-11-2011, 01:40 PM
There's no way Hibs will be successful without a cash injection, I'm not talking 20 million but it will take a few mill (3 million say?) to get a few signings and offload some...it's not going to happen though is it so it will all be about not getting relegated this season - certainly nothing to bring the lost 3000 back

NORTHERNHIBBY
20-11-2011, 01:42 PM
i think that a backroom staff working as a chosen team, rather than being foisted on a manager is more important than the size of the budget to bring extra players in. If we are getting to the nitty gritty with possible candidates there surely has to be a trade off somewhere?

IWasThere2016
20-11-2011, 01:44 PM
Finance is probably the issue. They'll want the contracts of existing backroom staff to run on rather than have to negotiate a severance package which we can ill afford right now.

:agree:

BroxburnHibee
20-11-2011, 01:47 PM
Can someone point me towards these reports

I'd like a read at them

Golden Bear
20-11-2011, 01:48 PM
I haven't seen the press reports saying that, but if it's true, then we may struggle to recruit.

The newspaper that is the font of all knowledge (The Sunday Post) states that this is the case. But apparently if Michael O'Neill is appointed then it wouldn't present a problem as Gareth Evans was his assistant at Brechin and he has no problem with Billy Brown remaining in his role as No.2

Time will tell.

Hibbyradge
20-11-2011, 01:51 PM
Even if its not been reported in the press, I think most know the answer anyway.



That's just the usual spurious anti-Petrie talk. Some people may be guessing, but no-one knows for sure.

As far as I can remember, every manager has been allowed to bring in his own assistant. We paid for two during Calderwood's time in charge!

I'm not even convinced the current backroom staff have such huge contracts that Hibs wouldn't be willing to compensate. Stevenson and Evans won't be on big money and Brown is only contracted until the end of the season.

Hibbyradge
20-11-2011, 01:53 PM
There's no way Hibs will be successful without a cash injection, I'm not talking 20 million but it will take a few mill (3 million say?) to get a few signings and offload some...it's not going to happen though is it so it will all be about not getting relegated this season - certainly nothing to bring the lost 3000 back

Great idea.

Where can we get this money?

James70
20-11-2011, 01:54 PM
We may not be able to afford a complete new coaching team straight away but the new manager should at least have the power to choose his own no.2 and then make changes to the rest of the coaching staff as and when existing contracts expire.

BEEJ
20-11-2011, 02:13 PM
What we can't afford is appointing a guy with his hands tied behind his back. The entire coaching structure has been in place too long failing and if the new guy wants the lot replaced he should have the freedom to do so.

We are either serious about getting this next appointment right or not.
I don't disagree with that. But we were here before when CC was recruited.

Too much of our budget just now is devoted to paying off failed managerial appointments to be able (in the minds of the Board) to take a machine gun to the coaching staff as well.

BEEJ
20-11-2011, 02:19 PM
As far as I can remember, every manager has been allowed to bring in his own assistant. We paid for two during Calderwood's time in charge!
:hmmm:

Derek Adams? :wink:

ScottB
20-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Out of interest, how common is it for new managers to turn up at a club and replace the entire backroom staff?

I can't think of many examples, hell even at clubs like Chelsea there seems to be a degree of continuity between regimes.


Personally I think that time has long since been up for Evans and Stevenson, and they need to go, but given the rate that we will always change managers (one way or another, a maximum of 2 - 3 seasons at best), constantly changing the backroom staff each time is unsustainable. If we can get a solid system in place, particularly when it comes to youth development, it shouldn't change every time the manager does. For example I doubt anyone would even think of changing Barcas backroom staff when Guardiola is replaced.

Sas_The_Hibby
20-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Great idea.

Where can we get this money?

Easy peasy - if the 300,000 Hearts fans that are going to contribute £100 each, to bail out Hearts, just gave us an extra £10 each, as a goodwill gesture, we'll have the cash in a trice. It'll happen - mark my words! :greengrin

Hibbyradge
20-11-2011, 02:32 PM
:hmmm:

Derek Adams? :wink:

The circumstances stories surrounding his appointment are pure conjecture, but even if they were true, the main thrust of my argument is still valid.

We will pay for new staff, if they're required/wanted.

BroxburnHibee
20-11-2011, 02:35 PM
Nothing in the Sunday Post online version

"Media reports" suggests more than one

Anywhere else?

Anyone?

Scouse Hibee
20-11-2011, 02:39 PM
Just like any other business a new manager shouldn't need to nor should he be allowed to change the whole of his support staff in order to achieve his targets. Any manager worth his salt that is!!! Unless you can call the players his support staff.

killie-hibby
20-11-2011, 03:12 PM
Then whoever is going to be appointed shouldn't take the job and is the wrong person to take it.

Any serious manager/coach would see his back room staff around him as his remit understanding the importance of their positions. It should be his decision whether they are at the club or not.

I think we are underestimating the importance of a manager with his team around him. If the media reports of candidates being told that the board want to retain all existing backroom staff are true then It's really not a good sign from the board...

And even more so if the new guy accepts this and takes the job...


IMOP Gareth Evans should have been sacked before Collins left. Before coming to ER in 2007 his primary occupation was selling finance/insurance. He dabbled in coaching with Alloa and Brechin. God only knows why Hibs were stupid enough to hire him. Some supporters blame East mains for a decline in the players fitness levels,motivation and tactical awareness. I blame Teflon Man (Evans). From a reliable source I learned one of our recent managers described him as "poisonous". He is not up to the job and never will be. Had Collins,Mixu and Hughes been allowed to fire and hire their own back room staff, Hibs would not be the the crap team/club they are today. Collins had the financial means to allow him to walk away. Unfortunately Mixu, Hughes and Calderwood were dependant on their Hibs salaries, thus their anxiety levels increased due to a continuous feeling of not being in control, and stayed on until the bitter end. This anxiety led to a lack of confidence and poor decision making as has been obvious with the Hibs team over the past four years. I dont believe Petrie hires incompotent managers. Regrettably his well intentioned habit of allowing players/coaching staff to meet him in the absence of the insitu manager is the catalyst for doubt,poor morale and indifference with the players whether they win the game or not. It has been my opinion for years that Hibs players regard Mr Petrie as their manager.
Smurf is right, the next manager must have 100% authority regards his back room staff. In the next week or two if we hear the dreaded words "I'm happy with the current coaches, they're great professionals", it would be safe to put your mortgage on the new manager joining the dole queue during 2012.
Major changes are required at HIBERNIAN FC . The indifference which is now spreading within the support will see Hibs having the same status as Partick Thistle,Dundee,Ayr United and eventually Third Lanark. The situation is desperate but not yet critical. It's up to the board to let the new manager manage.

HibsMax
20-11-2011, 03:55 PM
What we can't afford is appointing a guy with his hands tied behind his back. The entire coaching structure has been in place too long failing and if the new guy wants the lot replaced he should have the freedom to do so.

We are either serious about getting this next appointment right or not.

Agreed and if the timing is not right then they should have probably stuck with CC until the time is right.

down the slope
20-11-2011, 04:21 PM
What about at half time when the subs are warming up and they think f... this and start to sign autographs !, i sometimes think we are run like an amateur team , complete clear out needed i reckon.

Franck is God
20-11-2011, 04:35 PM
I don't think that the coaching staff are on the same kind of contracts as perhaps the manager and the assistant, I would think thay are simply employees of the club in the same way as ground staff & ticket office so simply a notice period and a severance based on the length of time served would be the pay off.

For what its worth I think we need an entirely new first team manager and coaching team, first touch, passing, movement and fitness are coaching issues and almost every side I see at ER these days do it better than us.

Kammy1875
20-11-2011, 04:49 PM
The circumstances stories surrounding his appointment are pure conjecture, but even if they were true, the main thrust of my argument is still valid.

We will pay for new staff, if they're required/wanted.

Stevie Clarke might suggest otherwise. :agree:

Back to the original bit, does anyone know how long Billy Brown's contract is?

Seems as crazy as not letting CC go down south in the summer brining in an assistant manager on a long term deal then sacking the manager who apparently wanted him in a month later.

The fact that BB has applied for the position and not walked with CC says to me it was the board who played a part in the recruitment of the assistant. Something that shouldn't happen at any club.

matty_f
28-11-2011, 12:47 PM
Then whoever is going to be appointed shouldn't take the job and is the wrong person to take it.

Any serious manager/coach would see his back room staff around him as his remit understanding the importance of their positions. It should be his decision whether they are at the club or not.

I think we are underestimating the importance of a manager with his team around him. If the media reports of candidates being told that the board want to retain all existing backroom staff are true then It's really not a good sign from the board...

And even more so if the new guy accepts this and takes the job...

Looks like we didn't need to worry about this then!

Fenlon's obviously got his own ideas on who needs to come in with him. Good luck Pat.

degenerated
28-11-2011, 01:09 PM
Looks like we didn't need to worry about this then!

Fenlon's obviously got his own ideas on who needs to come in with him. Good luck Pat.

how long till we hear that PF wanted to keep them but Petrie sacked them anyway :stirrer:

jacomo
28-11-2011, 01:15 PM
What we can't afford is appointing a guy with his hands tied behind his back. The entire coaching structure has been in place too long failing and if the new guy wants the lot replaced he should have the freedom to do so.

We are either serious about getting this next appointment right or not.

U19s?

"Entire coaching structure" is much broader than the first team squad.

Barney McGrew
28-11-2011, 01:19 PM
If the media reports of candidates being told that the board want to retain all existing backroom staff are true then It's really not a good sign from the board....

Time for a grudging tip of the cap to the board for emptying the existing coaching staff out and letting Fenlon bring his own people in then? :wink:

bawheid
28-11-2011, 01:19 PM
I haven't seen the press reports saying that, but if it's true, then we may struggle to recruit.


I've never seen these reports - just someone saying it on here.

Far, far easier to just make stuff up. All the better if it fits with your agenda.

smurf
28-11-2011, 01:36 PM
Looks like we didn't need to worry about this then!

Fenlon's obviously got his own ideas on who needs to come in with him. Good luck Pat.

Sad for anyone losing their job but today is encouraging.

smurf
28-11-2011, 01:37 PM
Time for a grudging tip of the cap to the board for emptying the existing coaching staff out and letting Fenlon bring his own people in then? :wink:

Why would it be "grudging"?

Barney McGrew
28-11-2011, 01:39 PM
Why would it be "grudging"?

I think even you would admit you're not often the first in the queue to praise anything the board does :greengrin

smurf
28-11-2011, 01:46 PM
I think even you would admit you're not often the first in the queue to praise anything the board does :greengrin

Top of my head...

1, The introduction of the interest free repayment scheme for season tickets.

2, The backing given in the transfer market to John Hughes and Colin Calderwood.

3, The RP statement issued when Steve McClaren was publicly tapping our manager.

All areas I've given credit and praise to the board.

Ultimately though they should be judged on one thing and that's our "Sporting success" and in this respect their record is pathetic despite the spin presented by RP on Friday of "Six top six finishes in seven years" (or whatever it was) to the media.

Saorsa
28-11-2011, 02:14 PM
Sad for anyone losing their job but today is encouraging.Indeed, it's a start