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Emerald
20-11-2011, 12:29 AM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

truehibernian
20-11-2011, 12:32 AM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno: He applied.....source, his sons

Emerald
20-11-2011, 12:33 AM
He applied.....source, his sons
I would approve ... now.

IWasThere2016
20-11-2011, 12:35 AM
Yes.

It was poor at times, and great at others.

A cup win - some great players.

He got lambasted for 22 games - my recollection is we outplayed them but carried nae luck time and time again, and they undeservedly won/drew again and again.

SteveHFC
20-11-2011, 12:35 AM
He would do a better job than CC :agree:

leither17
20-11-2011, 12:51 AM
Some of my favourite players growing up played under him harper jackson o'neill crunchie mcginlay I thought we were brilliant then but I was about 12

Emerald
20-11-2011, 12:54 AM
Some of my favourite players growing up played under him harper jackson o'neill crunchie mcginlay I thought we were brilliant then but I was about 12
We complained about them at the time, wish we had half that team and fight now.

truehibernian
20-11-2011, 12:56 AM
Some of my favourite players growing up played under him harper jackson o'neill crunchie mcginlay I thought we were brilliant then but I was about 12To quote Greg.....'dad thinks Hibs are perfectly set up, and he would love to manage them'World scout and assistant to Liverpool and Benitez.......I think personally he ticks the box of Director of Football, doing away with Scott Lindsay, and then appointing a young manager who can learn his trade under guidance.......just my humble opinion.

Emerald
20-11-2011, 12:59 AM
To quote Greg.....'dad thinks Hibs are perfectly set up, and he would love to manage them'World scout and assistant to Liverpool and Benitez.......I think personally he ticks the box of Director of Football, doing away with Scott Lindsay, and then appointing a young manager who can learn his trade under guidance.......just my humble opinion.
Where did that come from :dunno:

truehibernian
20-11-2011, 01:06 AM
When I met him two weeks ago (to be exact)

monktonharp
20-11-2011, 01:07 AM
To quote Greg.....'dad thinks Hibs are perfectly set up, and he would love to manage them'World scout and assistant to Liverpool and Benitez.......I think personally he ticks the box of Director of Football, doing away with Scott Lindsay, and then appointing a young manager who can learn his trade under guidance.......just my humble opinion.good idea, him as the overall team director. was a bit boring and his previous link with that govan mob tainted him, but he won a cup with us! and should be applouded for that. could never understand why we always had 11 men in our 18yd box do defend a corner though!

fatbloke
20-11-2011, 01:10 AM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

Alex Miller was told every year keep us in the Premier League. This he did and then some more. I know exactly how bad financially things were then. AM signed some players we had no right to sign and admittedly some we shouldn't have. Just remember how long it took his successors to send us down. Take him now as no 2 to BB:agree:?

Saorsa
20-11-2011, 01:15 AM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:Compared tae the guff that's been witnessed under Clueless, Hughes and Mixu the Miller era could almost be called entertaining. Some was good, some was bad and some was indifferent (now it's just *****) some good players in his teams that were worth watching. He also won us the cup, best day at the fitba I've ever had. The players gave a **** back then for a lot less money. I personally enjoyed everything about the fitba day out back then particularly the standing with nae seats and the big sways in the crowd.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYjSyWIli0E

It wisnae over 400 quid a year then either.

truehibernian
20-11-2011, 01:17 AM
My question to Hibs fans would be, if people of the calibre of Alex are still hungry to manage or oversee Hibs, what does the likes of Scott and Fyfe bring to Hibs ? I only ask as a discussion point, not because I am against them.

I think Hibs suffer (and can gain in this football climate) from having purely football people in these positions, who have decades of experience in better leagues.

As Arthur Montford would say.....discuss ?

truehibernian
20-11-2011, 01:18 AM
That should have read I think we would benefit, not suffer, from having football people at the helm.

leither17
20-11-2011, 01:18 AM
Compared tae what we've the guff that's been witnessed under Clueless, Hughes and Mixu the Miller era could almost be called entertaining. Some was good, some was bad and some was indifferent (now it's just *****) some good players in his teams that were worth watching. He also won us the cup, best day at the fitba I've ever had. The players gave a **** back then for a lot less money. I personally enjoyed everything about the fitba day out back then particularly the standing with nae seats and the big sways in the crowd.It wisnae over 400 quid a year then either. Agree with all that it was all I thought about all week was the next match at ER now I'm not even bothered if I miss a game or 3

Saorsa
20-11-2011, 01:19 AM
My question to Hibs fans would be, if people of the calibre of Alex are still hungry to manage or oversee Hibs, what does the likes of Scott and Fyfe bring to Hibs ? I only ask as a discussion point, not because I am against them.

I think Hibs suffer (and can gain in this football climate) from having purely football people in these positions, who have decades of experience in better leagues.

As Arthur Montford would say.....discuss ?Number crunching?

Saorsa
20-11-2011, 01:31 AM
That should have read I think we would benefit, not suffer, from having football people at the helm.I think we need both, unfortunately all we have is a lot of one and none of the other.

Saorsa
20-11-2011, 01:34 AM
Agree with all that it was all I thought about all week was the next match at ER now I'm not even bothered if I miss a game or 3:agree: Saturdays were the highlight of my week, boozer, banter, fitba, boozer, banter. The fitba has been a chore (an expensive one) for a while now, more often than not, now it spoils the rest of the day.

basehibby
20-11-2011, 01:36 AM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

Alex Miller did a great job for Hibs over the piece. He was fully committed to the job to the extent that - as pointed out by then chairman Dougie Cromb - he stuck by the club through our darkest hour when he had other offers and could have walked - and went on to win us a nigh on miraculous trophy!
After that he went on to put some more than decent sides together - interspersed by some spells of utter mediocrity as emerging stars were sold on (sounds familiar?)

On the down side, the flip side to a meticulous approach was that he could be an overly cautious manager - while I remember some great seasons with exciting signings I also remember some football that would make your eyes bleed! By the time he left hibs he'd definately taken us as far as he could and I was glad to see him go.

Since then I've seen a lot of managers come and go and if I'm fair to Auld Lexo there are few that I'd say were an improvement - McLeish, Mowbray and maybe Collins. Most of the rest couldn't hold a candle to him - he managed hibs through some difficult times but still managed to take the club forwards on the whole IMO.

So the question is would I like to go back to the Alex Miller days? The answer is NO - although a great technical manager he lacked flamboyance and imagination IMO. I've seen better since and, though undoubtably we could do a lot worse, I'd like to see better again.

NORTHERNHIBBY
20-11-2011, 01:47 AM
Think that Miller was keen on stodgy formations and if you read Budgies auto, there is quite a bit of negativity thrown his way. IMO that team had too many individually talented players that couldn't be suppressed. Videoton away is the finest performance I have ever seen from a Hibs team.

MrSmith
20-11-2011, 02:09 AM
No thanks! Been there, seen that, done it and definitely not going back! Those were dark days! Some good teams, great players, momentous occasions but when it came to scoring goals or coming from behind ... no way, no effin way!

Roughie said in his biography that AM had the most unfortunate personality and was the worst manger he ever worked with.

brisbanehibs
20-11-2011, 02:32 AM
saw keith wright being interviewed a while ago and he talked up lexo's influence on him and the team but said that he wasn't a great man manager which seems to be a common theme with the players who have talked about him. not sure but I think his last manager role in Sweden came to a halt because players found him hard work. I would love to see him back in an assistant role good enough for liverpool so good enough for us IMHO.

7Hero
20-11-2011, 02:52 AM
Yes.

got lambasted for 22 games - my recollection is we outplayed them but carried nae luck time and time again, and they undeservedly won/drew again and again.

Never a truer word spoken I witnessed the 22 and it was heart breaking we never deserved that

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

7Hero
20-11-2011, 02:54 AM
No thanks! Been there, seen that, done it and definitely not going back! Those were dark days! Some good teams, great players, momentous occasions but when it came to scoring goals or coming from behind ... no way, no effin way!

Roughie said in his biography that AM had the most unfortunate personality and was the worst manger he ever worked with.

I don't give a hoot what roughie says he is a cheat at.golf

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Viva_Palmeiras
20-11-2011, 04:13 AM
He applied.....source, his sons

Did they shout it out simultaneously or sign a written declaration? Please tell me they are no longer in the game - down with nepotism!

Answer is no for me purely based on the derby record. Thanks for the skol cup but overstayed welcome got stale and ran out of steam. Oh and did I mention the derby record?

Surely this is not true!? Even in the team that wouldn't die he still reckoned there was a dislike cause of rangers connections - have a word Alex " dour"

IWasThere2016
20-11-2011, 06:41 AM
Never a truer word spoken I witnessed the 22 and it was heart breaking we never deserved that

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Yup - staggering it ever got to that number, and it was truly heart-breaking!

HibbyAndy
20-11-2011, 08:36 AM
Yes.

It was poor at times, and great at others.

A cup win - some great players.

He got lambasted for 22 games - my recollection is we outplayed them but carried nae luck time and time again, and they undeservedly won/drew again and again.


Spot on :agree:


Back in the day i think i was at every single one of those 22 in a row games, We would batter them from pillar to post and still not beat them, I left many a game shaking my heid in utter disbelief how the hell we never won that game, One game that sticks out is a 0-0 game at Easter rd where Brian Hamilton missed a penalty, If that was a boxing match it would have been stopped, Absolute battered them that day and still couldn't beat them.


All these years later one thing has never changed, Hearts are still the luckiest *******s in the world .

Bostonhibby
20-11-2011, 09:12 AM
Hindsights a great thing but given the period Miller had to steer us through, what he got out of the squad, the quality of some of the players he brought in plus the cup after Mercergate I have nothing but respect for the guy (and Murdo). Not saying it was like the Turnbull era but compared to recent history he was certainly one of our better modern day managers.

He was definitely more of a technical manager as one of the posters has said but look where the alternatives to that we have seen recently have got us, one mute scowler and one blethering skate later we are where we are...................Imagine having someone that knows how to work with the resources he's got, stabilise a club that was in a real crisis, does tactics, keeps us up and wins a cup.:wink: Be ecstatic if we achieved all that any time soon and the non playing set up is better.

BroxburnHibee
20-11-2011, 09:19 AM
Miller was allowed to spend money each season to bring us a bit of quality - hence the reason we ended up with the likes of Keith, DJ, Crunchie, MON, Goram, McGinlay etc.

We've not got that kind of buying power anymore.


Hindsights a great thing but given the period Miller had to steer us through, what he got out of the squad, the quality of some of the players he brought in plus the cup after Mercergate I have nothing but respect for the guy (and Murdo). Not saying it was like the Turnbull era but compared to recent history he was certainly one of our better modern day managers.

He was definitely more of a technical manager as one of the posters has said but look where the alternatives to that we have seen recently have got us, one mute scowler and one blethering skate later we are where we are...................Imagine having someone that knows how to work with the resources he's got, stabilise a club that was in a real crisis, does tactics, keeps us up and wins a cup.:wink: Be ecstatic if we achieved all that any time soon and the non playing set up is better.

Kaiser1962
20-11-2011, 09:27 AM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

Thats a myth. Miller tried to go 4-3-3 often but didn't always have the personnel to do it. In the mid 90s in a scottish cup semi at Ibrox we drew 0-0 and for the replay Miller dropped Davie Farrell and brought in Mark McGraw. We lost 3-1 but Miller went for it with Wright, Jackson, O'Neill, Harper and McGraw all starting.

When Miller got the job his first game was home against Rangers and he was overwhelmingly welcomed by a big home crowd. The game was a scoreless draw but midway through the second half someone in the away dugout irked Miller and he tried to pull the offender out by the throat. He didn't deserve the level of personal abuse he got but neither did Stanton, Blackley, Ormond or Turnbull before him for that matter.

Bostonhibby
20-11-2011, 09:40 AM
Miller was allowed to spend money each season to bring us a bit of quality - hence the reason we ended up with the likes of Keith, DJ, Crunchie, MON, Goram, McGinlay etc.

We've not got that kind of buying power anymore.

:agree:Good use of what he had when he was allowed to spend

Kaiser1962
20-11-2011, 09:55 AM
Miller was allowed to spend money each season to bring us a bit of quality - hence the reason we ended up with the likes of Keith, DJ, Crunchie, MON, Goram, McGinlay etc.

We've not got that kind of buying power anymore.


Different world in those days. No one in Scotland has any more, witness Rangers and Celtic being outbid by second teir English sides.

brisbanehibs
20-11-2011, 10:34 AM
Hindsights a great thing but given the period Miller had to steer us through, what he got out of the squad, the quality of some of the players he brought in plus the cup after Mercergate I have nothing but respect for the guy (and Murdo). Not saying it was like the Turnbull era but compared to recent history he was certainly one of our better modern day managers.

He was definitely more of a technical manager as one of the posters has said but look where the alternatives to that we have seen recently have got us, one mute scowler and one blethering skate later we are where we are...................Imagine having someone that knows how to work with the resources he's got, stabilise a club that was in a real crisis, does tactics, keeps us up and wins a cup.:wink: Be ecstatic if we achieved all that any time soon and the non playing set up is better.

I think Bostonhibby makes a good point.Miller talked sense and was ok with the media. compare this with the utter crap that we got from hughes and calderwood. he was good with the fans too. saw him at a supporters' forum in leith around the time we won the skol cup and he was excellent value and very honest and engaging. I remember one of the reasons fans went for him was a refusal to play mickey weir week in week out or to play him out of position. his teams worked hard as well although ironically enough MON was lazy and turned it on when it suited him...maybe the new dream management team;-)

Billy Whizz
20-11-2011, 10:48 AM
Funnily enough I saw Alex Miller in a service station just outside Edinburgh last Sunday. He was heading South. Didn't have the courage to ask him if he was up to see Rod?

Brizo
20-11-2011, 11:03 AM
Curates egg i think they call it. Some great teams ,some great players and great entertainment and of course a Cup winning manager. But on the downside some teams that were absolute [email protected] and some periods of dour negative fitba playing a system where players were restricted from expressing themselves. Towards the end it was eye bleeding stuff. He should have left much earlier and if he had he'd be held in far greater regard. A too friendly relationship between him and Dougie Cromb kept him in the job way past his sell by date.

Interesting that one of his sons is mentioned above. Him playing both of them in the first team was ripping the [email protected] and nepotism of the highest order. Fact that after Hibs both went straight to lower leagues / juniors told its own story.

Sas_The_Hibby
20-11-2011, 11:19 AM
saw keith wright being interviewed a while ago and he talked up lexo's influence on him and the team but said that he wasn't a great man manager which seems to be a common theme with the players who have talked about him. not sure but I think his last manager role in Sweden came to a halt because players found him hard work. I would love to see him back in an assistant role good enough for liverpool so good enough for us IMHO.

The same could arguably be said about Eddie Turnbull.

FWIW I think Miller did a pretty good job with relatively few resources. Wouldn't take him on again now TBH, though I've certainly got nothing against him.

Russ
20-11-2011, 11:19 AM
[QUOTE=Emerald;2996107]Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:[/Q

He presided over the clubs worst period against Hearts in our history, that alone was bad enough. The vast majority of his years saw piss poor boring football.

Eyrie
20-11-2011, 11:27 AM
I had a season ticket for most of the Miller era, and whilst I wouldn't have believed it at the time, I'm nostalgic for the days when he put out a team that was organised and had talented players.

So no objection here to bringing him back in a supervisory role, or even to the board. Maybe he still has a good eye for a player (remember David Platt?)

Glass half full
20-11-2011, 11:47 AM
On the down side, the flip side to a meticulous approach was that he could be an overly cautious manager - while I remember some great seasons with exciting signings I also remember some football that would make your eyes bleed!

I think this fairly summarises Miller's time. There were many games, and seasons, that you just wanted the matches to end, hoping that Hibs would score a goal never mind get a point. There was one season where we scored around 20; made the CC team of today look like Barcelona!

The run against Hearts was unjust. Henry Smith played some blinders and there were a number of times we played them off the park and ended up with a 0-0!

After the Paul Wright / Keith Wright transfer, things slowly started to improve. McAllister and OíNeill out wide, with Jackson and Wright up front was one of the best Hibs sides Iíve seen. McGinley got goals and Hamilton, whilst often lambasted from the support each work, worked very well in the holding role, providing cover for the defence. OíNeill on his day was as good as anyone Iíve seen in a Hibs shirt.

I do feel with that team were lucky they played in the Ď90s. Hate to think how many red cards Miller and Hunter would pick up in todayís football.

heretoday
20-11-2011, 11:56 AM
Alex Miller did a great job in trying circumstances. Winning a trophy a year after nearly going out of business. And signing Steve Archibald!

I concede he didn't beat the Hearts often enough.

Maybe if certain managers in recent years had been given more time and support they might have achieved similar results or better.

We expect miracles in a matter of months nowadays. Instant gratification.

Lago
20-11-2011, 12:12 PM
During that time I went every home game at ER & many away games, never entered my head to miss a match. Now I no longer go at all.

judas
20-11-2011, 12:49 PM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

To be honest emerald, Alex Miller gave us some good memories and some good squads.

His biggest failing was his failure to get results against Hearts. The Hibs v Hearts period under Am was a horror story.

I also feel that a small section of the fans were prejudiced due to his previous connection with Rangers.

Toward the end of his spell at Hibs he made the mistake of introducing his sons to the team - and boy that was a mistake. Graeme Miller was so bad it was genuinely amusing. Greg was a grafter with 0% ability.

SneakersO'Toole
20-11-2011, 01:40 PM
I would certainly take Lexo over Mr Lindsay for DOF any day of the week.

jdships
20-11-2011, 02:27 PM
Thats a myth. Miller tried to go 4-3-3 often but didn't always have the personnel to do it. In the mid 90s in a scottish cup semi at Ibrox we drew 0-0 and for the replay Miller dropped Davie Farrell and brought in Mark McGraw. We lost 3-1 but Miller went for it with Wright, Jackson, O'Neill, Harper and McGraw all starting.

When Miller got the job his first game was home against Rangers and he was overwhelmingly welcomed by a big home crowd. The game was a scoreless draw but midway through the second half someone in the away dugout irked Miller and he tried to pull the offender out by the throat. He didn't deserve the level of personal abuse he got but neither did Stanton, Blackley, Ormond or Turnbull before him for that matter.

I got to know AM very well outside of football through a mutual friend and he was quire a student of the game.
He had more contacts around the game than you would ever thought possible while his card indices of young Scottish players was nothing short of amazing
You are spot on re the highlighted bit of your post many's the time he spoke of how he would have given anything to go 4-3-3 but didn't have the resources to do so.
A nice man to spend time with and for me very underrated as a manager
Like all of us he made mistakes but all in all have no complaints re the time he was at ER

:aok:

smurf
20-11-2011, 02:28 PM
Said before that Lexo would be a very good addition to the Hibs board. Think I said it when Scott Lindsay said he was going to send the next year exploring scouting opportunities...

southern hibby
20-11-2011, 06:42 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong but did Alex Mc not get us to 2 finals and unfortunately we got beat of the OGRE's at Park heid.
What I would give for a final. For me it would be a yes. I know we would have some terrible eye bleeding days but at least we would be orginised and he would have players at least looking like they were interested. GGTTH.

Mibbes Aye
20-11-2011, 06:58 PM
I think this fairly summarises Miller's time. There were many games, and seasons, that you just wanted the matches to end, hoping that Hibs would score a goal never mind get a point. There was one season where we scored around 20; made the CC team of today look like Barcelona!

The run against Hearts was unjust. Henry Smith played some blinders and there were a number of times we played them off the park and ended up with a 0-0!

After the Paul Wright / Keith Wright transfer, things slowly started to improve. McAllister and OíNeill out wide, with Jackson and Wright up front was one of the best Hibs sides Iíve seen. McGinley got goals and Hamilton, whilst often lambasted from the support each work, worked very well in the holding role, providing cover for the defence. OíNeill on his day was as good as anyone Iíve seen in a Hibs shirt.

I do feel with that team were lucky they played in the Ď90s. Hate to think how many red cards Miller and Hunter would pick up in todayís football.

:greengrin

Would agree with all of that post.

It would be interesting to see how his experiences after Hibs have altered his approach. Also, how he would work with the greater player turnover we have post-Bosman.

Peevemor
20-11-2011, 07:04 PM
:greengrin

Would agree with all of that post.

It would be interesting to see how his experiences after Hibs have altered his approach. Also, how he would work with the greater player turnover we have post-Bosman.

That's the first thing I wondered when I seen this thread.

Miller had only 3 years management experience when he arrived at Hibs and was very much his own man. I would think the positions he's held since, particularly at Liverpool, must have broadened his horizons.

clerriehibs
20-11-2011, 07:09 PM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

Many people seem to prefer to forget when he put out teams like this - http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/1995-04-11%3A+Celtic+3-1+Hibernian.+Scottish+Cup+semi-final+replay - ok, this one was a defeat, but 4 forwards in that starting line-up, plus the goal-scoring of McGinlay. in a semi-final v. Celtc. That's not negative.

--------
20-11-2011, 07:16 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong but did Alex Mc not get us to 2 finals and unfortunately we got beat of the OGRE's at Park heid.
What I would give for a final. For me it would be a yes. I know we would have some terrible eye bleeding days but at least we would be orginised and he would have players at least looking like they were interested. GGTTH.



He did. In fact, if the referee in the second of his finals had had the bollocks to do huis job properly, we'd have had an early penalty and seen Maxwell the Huns goalie sent off, which might very well have n]been all we needed to go on to lift the Cup a second time in four years. Instaed, Keith got a yellow for diving. (Oddly enough, we've never yet seen a replay of the incident from behind the goal-line, shich suggests to me that the ref either got it wrong or he was playing for Rangers.)

And for someone with such a 'boring' reputation he signed a heck of a lot of good attacking players. At least with Lex we knew we were watching a football team, not a bunch of couldn't-care-less no-hopers who don't know the meaning of the word 'teamwork'.

Personally, I'd have Lex back at ER in a moment. Maybe not as manager, but certainly as Director of Football with a seat on the Board. What he doesn't know about football isn't worth worrying about, and he has the strength of character to see us past out present difficulties onto a much more even keel.

I've always held Smiler in the highest possible respect. Love to see him back and involved.

KeithTheHibby
20-11-2011, 07:26 PM
AM is often lambasted on here for his record and yes at times his football and personality was dull. His record against Hearts was woeful, 17 in a row was bad enough but 22 was dreadful. Most of those games the yams were jammy *******s and often never deserved a point never mind 3.


However he came through the most difficult period of our club's history and built 2 excellent teams in 1991 and 1995. His team also won us a trophy. His team in 1995 was littered with attacking flair namely Keith, Jackson, Harper, O' Neill and Crunchie.

The season he left we were almost relegated. The season after we were. Says it all for me.

AM must have done something right to spend all that time at Anfield too especially when Benitez came in and kept him on.

Since Lexo left we have had some ***** in the hotseat, let's be honest.

PatHead
20-11-2011, 07:38 PM
AM is often lambasted on here for his record and yes at times his football and personality was dull. His record against Hearts was woeful, 17 in a row was bad enough but 22 was dreadful. Most of those games the yams were jammy *******s and often never deserved a point never mind 3.


However he came through the most difficult period of our club's history and built 2 excellent teams in 1991 and 1995. His team also won us a trophy. His team in 1995 was littered with attacking flair namely Keith, Jackson, Harper, O' Neill and Crunchie.

The season he left we were almost relegated. The season after we were. Says it all for me.

AM must have done something right to spend all that time at Anfield too especially when Benitez came in and kept him on.

Since Lexo left we have had some ***** in the hotseat, let's be honest.

Didn't just keep him but promoted him from Worldwide Scout to Assistant Manager. Would love to see him as DoF at Easter Road and have boring anyone who would listen all week saying this. Must have some fantastic contacts and knowledge. SFA should have appointed him instead of the Dutch guy.

KeithTheHibby
20-11-2011, 07:39 PM
To be honest emerald, Alex Miller gave us some good memories and some good squads.

His biggest failing was his failure to get results against Hearts. The Hibs v Hearts period under Am was a horror story.

I also feel that a small section of the fans were prejudiced due to his previous connection with Rangers.

Toward the end of his spell at Hibs he made the mistake of introducing his sons to the team - and boy that was a mistake. Graeme Miller was so bad it was genuinely amusing. Greg was a grafter with 0% ability.

Good points well made.

He also continually gave Joe Tortolano contract extensions despite the fact he was crap.

See my other post though for a more positive outlook on the AM days.

fife hfc
20-11-2011, 07:52 PM
I remember arguing with a fan for calling AM a hun barsteward and to me that always counted against him. I do not think we could get anybody better than Miller for tactics and football knowledge but we now live in a time of public image being important and Miller always striked me as somebody who would gladly leave the media stuff to somebody else. As said above he would make an excellent DoF with a younger manager who he could guide along.

fatbloke
20-11-2011, 09:02 PM
Think that Miller was keen on stodgy formations and if you read Budgies auto, there is quite a bit of negativity thrown his way. IMO that team had too many individually talented players that couldn't be suppressed. Videoton away is the finest performance I have ever seen from a Hibs team.

Ah the memories. i still dine out on stories etc from that 5 day rail/ferry trip :thumbsup::drunk::sairhead:

fatbloke
20-11-2011, 09:06 PM
My question to Hibs fans would be, if people of the calibre of Alex are still hungry to manage or oversee Hibs, what does the likes of Scott and Fyfe bring to Hibs ? I only ask as a discussion point, not because I am against them.

I think Hibs suffer (and can gain in this football climate) from having purely football people in these positions, who have decades of experience in better leagues.

As Arthur Montford would say.....discuss ?

Ally Scott and Graham Fyfe my god they evoke some painful memories. Think I will go lie down for a while:)

s.a.m
20-11-2011, 09:50 PM
He did. In fact, if the referee in the second of his finals had had the bollocks to do huis job properly, we'd have had an early penalty and seen Maxwell the Huns goalie sent off, which might very well have n]been all we needed to go on to lift the Cup a second time in four years. Instaed, Keith got a yellow for diving. (Oddly enough, we've never yet seen a replay of the incident from behind the goal-line, shich suggests to me that the ref either got it wrong or he was playing for Rangers.)

And for someone with such a 'boring' reputation he signed a heck of a lot of good attacking players. At least with Lex we knew we were watching a football team, not a bunch of couldn't-care-less no-hopers who don't know the meaning of the word 'teamwork'.

Personally, I'd have Lex back at ER in a moment. Maybe not as manager, but certainly as Director of Football with a seat on the Board. What he doesn't know about football isn't worth worrying about, and he has the strength of character to see us past out present difficulties onto a much more even keel.

I've always held Smiler in the highest possible respect. Love to see him back and involved.

:agree: Didn't present himself well, but did well in difficult circumstances. I may have beeen the only person on the planet to be sorry to see him leavem because I was worried about what would come next (I'm not claiming any special foresight here - I'm just a worrier!)

Purple & Green
20-11-2011, 10:41 PM
:agree:Good use of what he had when he was allowed to spend

Andy Millen :na na:
Brian Hamilton :confused:
Keith Houchen:rolleyes:
Mark McGraw:na na:
Joe McLaughlin:confused:
Ian Cameron:rolleyes:

and to top the lot

Ray Wilkins :aok:

Does anyone reminiscing, want to provide any evidence that since he's left he's grasped the importance of a youth policy and progression? The Miller era was 10 wasted years for our youth set up. The much maligned Stanton did more in his criticised 2 years than Miller did in a decade.

17 in a row, quickly followed by 22 in a row points to a deep rooted problem, and I'm sure Miller would find a way to lose to Hearts under 19s next season.

Football to make your eyes bleed, 11 men back at corners.

So, it's a big no from the P&G jury.

Bishop Hibee
20-11-2011, 10:59 PM
There were many games, and seasons, that you just wanted the matches to end, hoping that Hibs would score a goal never mind get a point. There was one season where we scored around 20; made the CC team of today look like Barcelona!

The run against Hearts was unjust. Henry Smith played some blinders and there were a number of times we played them off the park and ended up with a 0-0!

After the Paul Wright / Keith Wright transfer, things slowly started to improve. McAllister and OíNeill out wide, with Jackson and Wright up front was one of the best Hibs sides Iíve seen. McGinley got goals and Hamilton, whilst often lambasted from the support each work, worked very well in the holding role, providing cover for the defence. OíNeill on his day was as good as anyone Iíve seen in a Hibs shirt.

I do feel with that team were lucky they played in the Ď90s. Hate to think how many red cards Miller and Hunter would pick up in todayís football.

1990/91 season after the attempted takeover was awful. Paul Wright top scorer with 6 goals.

22 in a row was a disaster plus another long run Hertz had without defeat. Miller never seemed to be able to raise Hibs to outfight Hearts.

Plus points were his dignity during the attempted takeover by Wallet, the 1991 cup win, 93 LC Final and a few games in Europe.

7-0 v the Huns, two 1-0 away defeats to Motherwell with Weir up front on his own and the lack of away wins were brutal. I don't think we ever scored more that 3 in an away league game under Miller and that was as rare as hens teeth.

With a better manager and a more savvy board we could and should have done so much more. Not a patch on McLeish or Mowbray in my opinion.

Jonnyboy
20-11-2011, 11:01 PM
Alex Miller did a great job for Hibs over the piece. He was fully committed to the job to the extent that - as pointed out by then chairman Dougie Cromb - he stuck by the club through our darkest hour when he had other offers and could have walked - and went on to win us a nigh on miraculous trophy!
After that he went on to put some more than decent sides together - interspersed by some spells of utter mediocrity as emerging stars were sold on (sounds familiar?)

On the down side, the flip side to a meticulous approach was that he could be an overly cautious manager - while I remember some great seasons with exciting signings I also remember some football that would make your eyes bleed! By the time he left hibs he'd definately taken us as far as he could and I was glad to see him go.

Since then I've seen a lot of managers come and go and if I'm fair to Auld Lexo there are few that I'd say were an improvement - McLeish, Mowbray and maybe Collins. Most of the rest couldn't hold a candle to him - he managed hibs through some difficult times but still managed to take the club forwards on the whole IMO.

So the question is would I like to go back to the Alex Miller days? The answer is NO - although a great technical manager he lacked flamboyance and imagination IMO. I've seen better since and, though undoubtably we could do a lot worse, I'd like to see better again.

This

Jonnyboy
20-11-2011, 11:03 PM
Said before that Lexo would be a very good addition to the Hibs board. Think I said it when Scott Lindsay said he was going to send the next year exploring scouting opportunities...

I once got a ticking off from Dougie Cromb for calling Miller that in the fanzine :greengrin

AK86
20-11-2011, 11:15 PM
Alex Miller wore a maroon sweatshirt on matchdays while manager of Hibs. nuff said
We were outfought time and time again in derbies
he gave games to his laddies, joe T (about 350!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and mark mcgraw
im out

Stevie Reid
21-11-2011, 10:38 AM
I have to end up writing this on every Miller thread but he managed Hibs mostly in the pre-Bosman era and when there were just 2 (or latterly 3) substitutes making for much smaller matchday squads.

This meant that free transfers were incredibly rare, and there were no wholesale changes every close season, with 5-6 players going out and coming in - he had to build a team gradually as he went on, adding only one or two every year with the same number going out, culminating in 2 excellent teams, the 1991 Skol Cup Final and the 1993 side that finished 3rd, split the Old Firm, missed 2nd place by a point, and lost as few games as Champions Rangers who were in the middle of 9 in a row.

If the first few years were boring, it was because we were crap and the only way to improve was to make us hard to beat, which he certainly did - but the gradual building of the team meant more and more exciting players coming in, and any team that includes Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay in it was certainly not boring. Would he have lasted 4 years in the current climate? Probably not. But could we have been in a far worse situation had someone else managed us during the Mercer take over bid? Absolutely.

To win a trophy so soon after we faced oblivion was a remarkable achievement, and the lack of appreciation for that ranks alongside those who make derogatory comments about JC as one the most perplexing things about the Hibs support. Yes Lexo was dour and many folk disliked him for that (but then many hated Yogi for being a "character" too), and the derby record was shocking but I don't think history has judged Miller fairly.

In his second last season we finished 3rd in the SPL, one point behind Motherwell in 2nd place and lost as few games as the league winners. We scored one less goal than Motherwell and had +12 goal difference compared to their zero. We finished 2 points ahead of Celtic (admittedly in dark days for them), and scored 10 more goals than them. In his last full season we finished 5th in the SPL (10 teams).

The following season Miller resigned after another disastrous derby against Hearts which we lost 3-1 - by this point we had played 7 games and had 10 points from our 3 wins, 3 defeats and a draw. We were dealing with a reduced budget due to the reconstruction of ER, and the squad suffered as a result - we brought in the likes of Ian Cameron to replace Michael O'Neill, for example. At this point, Hearts were doing the opposite - signing Neil McCann, Colin Cameron, Davie Weir and Jim Hamilton whilst getting extension after extension to keep that embarrassment of an away end open - so it shows just how long they've been overspending to gain success on the field at the expense of their infrastructure, and why the council should NEVER be allowed to help them out.

This transitional period under Miller and Hearts' renaissance under Jefferies (along with his dreadful derby record) definitely worked against AM, who was never the most popular even during the best times of his tenure. The 7-0 defeat at Ibrox certainly didn't help either, much like Celtic's resurgance under Tommy Burns, and both the OF turned us over by some considerable scores both home and away, which had been a rarity for all of Miller's tenure until that point. Basically the huge gap in spending between the OF and Hearts and the rest of the league was starting to show (I'm sure Aberdeen were still spending in their old fashioned ways at this point, but without any results).

Anyway, after Jocky Scott took over in the interim, followed by Jim Duffy, both were allowed to sign players in a classic example of funds only being made available in panic situations (IIRC, Scott was allowed to spend a quarter of a million on Yogi) - had these funds been made available to Miller when he was there, his signing record would strongly suggest that we would continue progressing. It would also have saved us spending the fortune that we did after McLeish came in, and getting out of the 1st Division.

As it was, having finished 3rd and 5th in his last two seasons, we were 5th in the league when Miller left - and finished the season in 9th place. The following season we finished 10th, and were relegated.

Would happily have him as Director of Football.

JustSimplyHibs
21-11-2011, 02:35 PM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

Alex Miller moulded a team that won the Scottish Cup months after him leaving to join Hibs in 86/87 season (St Mirren), won the league cup in 91, cup final in 93, helped guide Liverpool to European success in fact did Rafa no indicate that Miller's tactics proved to the contributing factor to his side's success.

Got Hibs into Europe for the first time in decades.

Was appointed a manger of some Asian team to help them avoid relegation - which he done.

Watched some of the football his teams's played after the failed merger...tell you what some good football played, a real team ethic and probably good enough to win the league nowadays, they certainly wouldn't have lay down and took all ways like we have recently against Killie, Motherwell, St Mirren FACT!

The club now has a better infrastructure and is more finacially secure than it was back in the dark days.

His management record at Hibs is probably better than, Yogi, Mixu, Calderwood, Collins + others put together since his sacking, His European record for Hibs is probably the best out of all recent managers as well as league standings. Yes we may have finished 9th or whatever under him but given the situation he done well.

His commitment to Hibs is without a doubt unquestionable compared to Mowbray, Collins and others

A steady pair of hands something which this club is crying out for, (better the devil you know than you dont), I would have more faith in him than what i would have with say Fenlon. O'Neil, BUTCHER (give me a break) and his commitment to Hibs would be so much better compared to Strachan, Davies or anyother (less likely to jump ship at the first offer).

Andy74
21-11-2011, 02:43 PM
Not having this. The reality of the Miller was awful. Yes, we eventually got a fair few talented players together but generally the we're played out of position or used the wrong tactics.

It didn't make up for the years before it either.

I recall an away game in the cup I think against Clyde at Firhill. It was the first game we had scored more than one goal and was deep into the season. Maybe that was just away from home but it was awful.

Let's not forget the Milller brothers either. Shocking that they got near a Hibs strip.

JustSimplyHibs
21-11-2011, 02:49 PM
Not having this. The reality of the Miller was awful. Yes, we eventually got a fair few talented players together but generally the we're played out of position or used the wrong tactics.

It didn't make up for the years before it either.

I recall an away game in the cup I think against Clyde at Firhill. It was the first game we had scored more than one goal and was deep into the season. Maybe that was just away from home but it was awful.

Let's not forget the Milller brothers either. Shocking that they got near a Hibs strip.


What year was that, the cup?

How many games did they play for Hibs? Was it more than Alan O'Brien?

Andy74
21-11-2011, 02:53 PM
How many games did they play for Hibs?

Not many but should never have got close to the opportunity.

There is a plus side of no reserve football. We used to have a team of players of decent age who still used to hang about in the squad despite being nowhere near good enough.

JustSimplyHibs
21-11-2011, 03:03 PM
Just looking at the real candidates and comparing them to Miller.......


Terry Butcher (please no),
Jim Jeffries (no no noo),
Fenlon (nae idea who he is but by the sounds of things would be the only one to compete against Miller)
Michael O'Neil in my eyes is earmarked for the NI job and i probably wouldn't want him either because of the former player going to management failures we have had recently.
Steve Clarke is a hit or a miss but a bit like BB but younger with a bit more time on his hands - never been tested.
John Collins - he walked out so not interested in him and wouldn't get my full backing for that reason beside would jump ship at the near sniff of the Selick job.

Dashing Bob S
21-11-2011, 03:16 PM
The 80's Miller - no thanks.
The 90's Miller - yes please.

'Lexo' was a manager of two halves.

truehibernian
21-11-2011, 03:19 PM
I once got a ticking off from Dougie Cromb for calling Miller that in the fanzine :greengrin

Good old Douglas....he always reminded me of Tessio from the Godfather films.

Sunny1875
21-11-2011, 04:06 PM
Miller was a manager that got time. Whilst the previous few managers have not been inspiring, the way the squads are dismantled after bosman does not help in building a squad. I would accept a manager who was even mediocre in taking the team forwards for a two or three years. Before any expectations are placed on them, A manager must be allowed time, time to bring his own players in, to bring youth through and to impress upon those players both brought in and promoted the way that they want the team to perform and way in which they are expected to be ambassadors for our club. think of the most successful managers around and which ones have instantly transformed their sides or which have had time to build.

--------
21-11-2011, 04:53 PM
Alex Miller wore a maroon sweatshirt on matchdays while manager of Hibs. nuff said
We were outfought time and time again in derbies
he gave games to his laddies, joe T (about 350!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and mark mcgraw
im out



He could wear a freakin' pink tutu so long as the team wasn't rolling over the way it is now.

Nor do I remember us being repeatedly 'outfought in derbies' - my recollection is that we regularly played well, didn't carry much of the luck, and a certain rotund centre-forward of the Hearts persuasion punished us over and over again.

The team was organised, properly set up and prepared for matches, and had a lot of very good players in it.

And please, speak no ill of Joe T - he could play half our present squad off the park, and frustrating as he was, there was never any question of his commitment to the cause. (Ask Gordon Strachan!)

Mark McGraw was, I thought, shaping OK until he was injured. As for his laddies, by that time the writing was on the wall - he and Dougie Cromb were being pushed out by a group on the board who wanted change at any price. He knew well we needed a striker, but he was allowed no money to bring one in. Maybe Greg and Graeme were Alex's way of making a point.

Anyway, we got change; Dougie was pushed out, Alex moved on to better things (CL winner as assistant manager with Liverpool), and we settled down to life after Alex Miller.

The price we paid for the change, IIRC, was Jim Duffy and relegation.

Stevie Reid
21-11-2011, 05:05 PM
He could wear a freakin' pink tutu so long as the team wasn't rolling over the way it is now.

Nor do I remember us being repeatedly 'outfought in derbies' - my recollection is that we regularly played well, didn't carry much of the luck, and a certain rotund centre-forward of the Hearts persuasion punished us over and over again.

The team was organised, properly set up and prepared for matches, and had a lot of very good players in it.

And please, speak no ill of Joe T - he could play half our present squad off the park, and frustrating as he was, there was never any question of his commitment to the cause. (Ask Gordon Strachan!)

Mark McGraw was, I thought, shaping OK until he was injured. As for his laddies, by that time the writing was on the wall - he and Dougie Cromb were being pushed out by a group on the board who wanted change at any price. He knew well we needed a striker, but he was allowed no money to bring one in. Maybe Greg and Graeme were Alex's way of making a point.

Anyway, we got change; Dougie was pushed out, Alex moved on to better things (CL winner as assistant manager with Liverpool), and we settled down to life after Alex Miller.

The price we paid for the change, IIRC, was Jim Duffy and relegation.

Good post, Doddie.

RE: Joe Tortolano - I felt so sorry for him. I remember when the team was read out when we played Clyde in the SC at ER in 1994, Joe T had had a good run in the first team and was playing well, and when his name was read out it wasn't met with any boos (pretty momentous stuff for him) - he broke his leg that day.

I remember the story someone on here told about speaking to Andy Goram and him mentioning that he couldn't get near JT's free kicks in training.

--------
21-11-2011, 05:37 PM
Not having this. The reality of the Miller was awful. Yes, we eventually got a fair few talented players together but generally the we're played out of position or used the wrong tactics.

It didn't make up for the years before it either.

I recall an away game in the cup I think against Clyde at Firhill. It was the first game we had scored more than one goal and was deep into the season. Maybe that was just away from home but it was awful.

Let's not forget the Milller brothers either. Shocking that they got near a Hibs strip.


So do I - it was in January 1990. Season 1990/91 was fairly eventful IIRC - Duff and Gray had us on the brink of financial ruin, Mercer launched the takeover bid, BBC News announced that 'it is understood that Hibs have played their last game' (I remember that newscast VERY well) - so maybe it wasn't all Alex's fault that the team was going so badly? Of course, maybe having the club disintegrating around their ears is just the sort of thing that managers and players hould be able to take in their stride. What do YOU think, Andy? :rolleyes:

IMO it was astonishing that we managed to avoid bottom spot in the League and stay in existence.

And IIRC the following season was a lot better - didn't the same players, under the same manager, win the League Cup and considerably improve their League placing? In fact, we'd played 14 and only lost the one League game - at Ibrox - at the time we won the League Cup, and we beat and outplayed Rangers in the LC semi-final in what was IMO one of the best games I've seen Hibs play in Glasgow.

"A fair few talented players... played out of position"? That is a total misrepresentation of the situation. Goram, Budgie, Leighton our goalkeepers. Defenders like Willie Miller, McIntyre, Hunter, Mitchell, Steve Tweed. A midfield with players like McAllister, Weir, Hamilton, Orr, Murdo McLeod, Paul Kane, Mike O'Neill, Pat McGinlay. Forwards like Keith Wright, Darren Jackson, Steve Archibald, Keith Houchen.

FYI, Greg played 15 games for Hibs, Graeme 2. Starts, I don't know about - those are their appearances.


Funny you picked a game from the season we nearly went out of existence to slam Alex Miller. You remembered the game, but you didn't remember what was going on in the boardroom? Memory's a strange thing, isn't it? :devil:

--------
21-11-2011, 06:01 PM
Good post, Doddie.

RE: Joe Tortolano - I felt so sorry for him. I remember when the team was read out when we played Clyde in the SC at ER in 1994, Joe T had had a good run in the first team and was playing well, and when his name was read out it wasn't met with any boos (pretty momentous stuff for him) - he broke his leg that day.

I remember the story someone on here told about speaking to Andy Goram and him mentioning that he couldn't get near JT's free kicks in training.


Joe's leg-break - and it was a bad one - did affect him in his later years at ER. I always like him.

tamig
21-11-2011, 06:38 PM
Right, I want all the Hibees views on this. Alex Miller was manager for 10 years and he was not liked by the majority of the Hibs support (maybe me too). He was branded a negative manager at the time, who never strayed from 4-4-2. I wasnt a fan or enemy of him, but we are miles away from the excitement of some of his teams (labelled boring) could achieve. Just asking all who were there at the time, would you like to go back to AM days??:dunno:

My own view is the negative stigma that was attached to AM was undeserved. People forget that he broke our first Jamboo hoodoo - from 83-87 - and I think the general view that his teams were negative is a bit of a myth. Sure there were some bad times - but that was when we were really in the financial doldrums. The man retained dignity and kept the club going during the Mercer atrocity. His team of the mid 90s with the likes of McAllister, O'Neill, Wright and Jacko gave me some of my best times as a Hibee. We really held the upper hand in derbies around that time. In summary, I don't complain about the AM era and I thank him for providing me with some good memories.

tamig
21-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Andy Millen :na na:
Brian Hamilton :confused:
Keith Houchen:rolleyes:
Mark McGraw:na na:
Joe McLaughlin:confused:
Ian Cameron:rolleyes:

and to top the lot

Ray Wilkins :aok:

Does anyone reminiscing, want to provide any evidence that since he's left he's grasped the importance of a youth policy and progression? The Miller era was 10 wasted years for our youth set up. The much maligned Stanton did more in his criticised 2 years than Miller did in a decade.

17 in a row, quickly followed by 22 in a row points to a deep rooted problem, and I'm sure Miller would find a way to lose to Hearts under 19s next season.

Football to make your eyes bleed, 11 men back at corners.

So, it's a big no from the P&G jury.

Full of inaccuracies.

You can't pin 17 in a row on Miller. That run started in 83 and Miller didn't arrive til November 86. Soon put that run to bed the following season.

And some of the players you list did a good turn for Hibs. Hamilton - although not liked by a lot of fans - was a mainstay of the midfield that won the cup. Him and McGinlay worked brilliantly together. Joe McLaughlin did well in the short time he was here - a class defender imo.

McGraw looked a real prospect until he got a bad injury against Dunfermline a few weeks before the final. You forget we beat Liverpool to sign him?

I also reckon AM signed Wilkins with a role in mind. What that role was we'll never know as he was emptied soon after.

Not too much thought in your post imo.

Bostonhibby
21-11-2011, 07:28 PM
:thumbsup: to both Tamig's posts above, the best reflection of how I recall the Miller era and events, and I was around a lot then!

E10 Rifle
21-11-2011, 07:29 PM
During that time I went every home game at ER & many away games, never entered my head to miss a match. Now I no longer go at all.

Great thread, some really good points ...but the above post says it all for me.

I would love to think there is a role for Alex Miller at the club. He did stay too long (he should have walked after we were gubbed 4-0 at Ibrox IMHO where we didn't even try to score, and he looked like he was out of ideas), but beyond that I feel he is as much to do with Hibs still being here as STF.

Jonnyboy
21-11-2011, 07:47 PM
Good old Douglas....he always reminded me of Tessio from the Godfather films.

A fanzine nickname for DC was "Davros"

Unkind really because DC was/is a lovely bloke

Jonnyboy
21-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Great thread, some really good points ...but the above post says it all for me.

I would love to think there is a role for Alex Miller at the club. He did stay too long (he should have walked after we were gubbed 4-0 at Ibrox IMHO where we didn't even try to score, and he looked like he was out of ideas), but beyond that I feel he is as much to do with Hibs still being here as STF.

Wasn't it 7-0 with a win a few days later in a Derby temporarily saving him his job?

truehibernian
21-11-2011, 07:53 PM
A fanzine nickname for DC was "Davros"

Unkind really because DC was/is a lovely bloke

Indeed JB.........davros did make me smile though.

DC had what I think those being respectful would call a 'lived in' appearance :greengrin Like a Scottish Walter Matthau.

A very, very courteous man. Great humility.

Jonnyboy
21-11-2011, 07:59 PM
Indeed JB.........davros did make me smile though.

DC had what I think those being respectful would call a 'lived in' appearance :greengrin Like a Scottish Walter Matthau.

A very, very courteous man. Great humility.

:agree:

judas
21-11-2011, 08:00 PM
We expect miracles in a matter of months nowadays. Instant gratification.

Agreed.

I hope we do not become an Aberdeen, with a culture of management changes and ridiculous expectation.

Eyrie
21-11-2011, 08:01 PM
Wasn't it 7-0 with a win a few days later in a Derby temporarily saving him his job?
Think we were 2-0 down with 15 minutes left when the roof fell in at Ibrox.

Hal Jordan
21-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Davros - I nearly peed myself laughing the first time I read that :greengrin

truehibernian
21-11-2011, 08:04 PM
http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/miller011096_2.jpg

Good wee article this. Who'd have thought.....a chairman in tears when a manager hands in his resignation, saying he will go on to better things (and proved correct). An ex player (and legend) saying he knows the game inside out................a manager who goes with dignity. And fans wanting Gordon to replace to unite the club............seems we have been pining for GS for a lot longer than I thought :greengrin

Hal Jordan
21-11-2011, 08:15 PM
I remember the 'Lexo' years very well, just as I remember Joe Totolano having lightning pace and being able to whip in a brilliant cross about 3 times out of 10. He needed time to build a team, just as he needed to keep us up and consolidate in the first few years in charge.
It's fashionable to slag him off now, but take a look at this team, they'd rip the rest of the SPL apart today...
http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

Musselbound
21-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Ten years is a long time to be in charge. In the last ten years Hibs have won a league cup, finished third once and fourth a couple of times. I don't think Alex Miller did any better than that. Yes, there were one or two very good teams, particularly around '93, and some quality players, but also a lot of mediocrity - much like the last 10 years.

Serious rose-tinted glasses stuff from anyone thinking about taking Miller back at this time. During most of those ten years a lot of people wanted him out and that would not change if he came back. By today's football standards he would not last two years and probably less at Hibs!

tamig
21-11-2011, 08:36 PM
I remember the 'Lexo' years very well, just as I remember Joe Totolano having lightning pace and being able to whip in a brilliant cross about 3 times out of 10. He needed time to build a team, just as he needed to keep us up and consolidate in the first few years in charge.
It's fashionable to slag him off now, but take a look at this team, they'd rip the rest of the SPL apart today...
http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

Dave Beaumont in that pic. Will never forgive him for not taking Foster down in THAT game. Disgrace of a defender.

Musselbound
21-11-2011, 08:49 PM
I remember the 'Lexo' years very well, just as I remember Joe Totolano having lightning pace and being able to whip in a brilliant cross about 3 times out of 10. He needed time to build a team, just as he needed to keep us up and consolidate in the first few years in charge.
It's fashionable to slag him off now, but take a look at this team, they'd rip the rest of the SPL apart today...
http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

Looking at that squad there were a few terrific players any of which would walk into the team today: Jackson, Weir, O'Neill, McAllister, Wright and Hunter to name the best of them.*

However, I have no desire to see the likes of Beaumont, Farrell, Reid, Gardiner or McGraw play again. So even that very good Hibs squad had its fare share of mediocrity. Certainly no better than the youth players around the club today.

What I would like to see future Hibs managers concentrating on is putting their money where their mouth is in terms of signing quality over quantity so that we can have a few like the former. In that respect Miller was not bad on the whole and he wasn't given the green light to sign about a dozen players in a year like recent Hibs managers. One summer I recall all he was able to bring in was Brian Welsh and Ian Cameron from Dundee United and Partick respectively!

*Edit - And Leighton obviously!

Purple & Green
21-11-2011, 09:42 PM
Full of inaccuracies.

You can't pin 17 in a row on Miller. That run started in 83 and Miller didn't arrive til November 86. Soon put that run to bed the following season.

And some of the players you list did a good turn for Hibs. Hamilton - although not liked by a lot of fans - was a mainstay of the midfield that won the cup. Him and McGinlay worked brilliantly together. Joe McLaughlin did well in the short time he was here - a class defender imo.

McGraw looked a real prospect until he got a bad injury against Dunfermline a few weeks before the final. You forget we beat Liverpool to sign him?

I also reckon AM signed Wilkins with a role in mind. What that role was we'll never know as he was emptied soon after.

Not too much thought in your post imo.

I think you overstate the Brian Hamilton's ability, he moved swiftly down the ladder after leaving Hibs. Joe McLaughlin was an excellent centre half, just not what we needed at the time, and at his stage in his career. Mark McGraw scored 3 goals in 57 games. And Ray Wilkins was nothing but poor for Hibs.

I love nostalgia, but I'm absolutely baffled at the amount of positive memories about the Miller years. Average attendances never got over 10k in his last 5 years and this was at a time that football was much cheaper than it is now. Average attendances were never below 10k in the 5 years after he left.

Andy Dow too - forgot about him - and my understanding was the board did support him with funds, but simply some players didn't want to play for him.

And there's more: Miller managed Hibs in 453 games.

He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for highest percentage of wins. He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for lowest percentage of losses. He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for highest number of goals per game. He is however third in the list of Hibs managers for lowest number of goals per game conceded. Bertie Auld is first, though.

My biggest gripe with the Miller years, and the bit you missed, was the ruination of our youth set up whilst he was in charge through a lack of progression. It's no coincidence that the players that emerged in the 10 years before his tenure and the 10 years after were of significantly better quality.

And another thing - he's been a failure in every managers job he's had since.

There also seems to be a bit of a myth that it was all wonderful post 91 - by my reckoning we won two measly games more than we lost in the league from the summer of 91 until his departure.

So, all in all, still a big no from the P&G jury.

tamig
21-11-2011, 09:50 PM
I think you overstate the Brian Hamilton's ability, he moved swiftly down the ladder after leaving Hibs. Joe McLaughlin was an excellent centre half, just not what we needed at the time, and at his stage in his career. Mark McGraw scored 3 goals in 57 games. And Ray Wilkins was nothing but poor for Hibs.

I love nostalgia, but I'm absolutely baffled at the amount of positive memories about the Miller years. Average attendances never got over 10k in his last 5 years and this was at a time that football was much cheaper than it is now. Average attendances were never below 10k in the 5 years after he left.

Andy Dow too - forgot about him - and my understanding was the board did support him with funds, but simply some players didn't want to play for him.

And there's more: Miller managed Hibs in 453 games.

He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for highest percentage of wins. He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for lowest percentage of losses. He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for highest number of goals per game. He is however third in the list of Hibs managers for lowest number of goals per game conceded. Bertie Auld is first, though.

My biggest gripe with the Miller years, and the bit you missed, was the ruination of our youth set up whilst he was in charge through a lack of progression. It's no coincidence that the players that emerged in the 10 years before his tenure and the 10 years after were of significantly better quality.

And another thing - he's been a failure in every managers job he's had since.

There also seems to be a bit of a myth that it was all wonderful post 91 - by my reckoning we won two measly games more than we lost in the league from the summer of 91 until his departure.

So, all in all, still a big no from the P&G jury.

I don't overstate Hamilton's ability in the slightest. You listen to any of the players from that era and they will all tell you the huge contribution Brianm Hamilton made. I also remember when he left us that we missed him badly.

On the Wilkins comment, please read that bit of my post again.

Miller destroyed the youth set up did he? I'm sure we won the Youth Cup back in the early 90s.

Mark McGraw? Again re-read my post.

Andy Dow? He did well at Aberdeen I recall after he left Hibs. And I'm sure we can all pick a few names out the hat from any of our previous managers and label certain individuals as duff signings.

We all have our own opinions and if your jury didn't rate AM then that's fine by me. There are a few on this thread who have a different take on things though.

keep the faith
21-11-2011, 10:07 PM
I think you overstate the Brian Hamilton's ability, he moved swiftly down the ladder after leaving Hibs. Joe McLaughlin was an excellent centre half, just not what we needed at the time, and at his stage in his career. Mark McGraw scored 3 goals in 57 games. And Ray Wilkins was nothing but poor for Hibs.

I love nostalgia, but I'm absolutely baffled at the amount of positive memories about the Miller years. Average attendances never got over 10k in his last 5 years and this was at a time that football was much cheaper than it is now. Average attendances were never below 10k in the 5 years after he left.

Andy Dow too - forgot about him - and my understanding was the board did support him with funds, but simply some players didn't want to play for him.

And there's more: Miller managed Hibs in 453 games.

He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for highest percentage of wins. He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for lowest percentage of losses. He's not in the top 10 Hibs managers for highest number of goals per game. He is however third in the list of Hibs managers for lowest number of goals per game conceded. Bertie Auld is first, though.

My biggest gripe with the Miller years, and the bit you missed, was the ruination of our youth set up whilst he was in charge through a lack of progression. It's no coincidence that the players that emerged in the 10 years before his tenure and the 10 years after were of significantly better quality.

And another thing - he's been a failure in every managers job he's had since.

There also seems to be a bit of a myth that it was all wonderful post 91 - by my reckoning we won two measly games more than we lost in the league from the summer of 91 until his departure.

So, all in all, still a big no from the P&G jury.

:top marks Agree with this. Rose tinted glasses rule. The Miller years were awful, truly awful.

The England/Scotland money gap was massively different at that time and we were lucky enough to attract a quality of player we could never get now. Infuriatingly most of the time those talented players were played in mind numbingly defensive formations.

Many a week I would despair at mickey weir, eddie may and even JC sitting on the bench while types like Mark McGraw, Dougie Bell and god help us, Billy Findlay clogged up the team. We put 11 behind the ball at all times at ibrox and parkhead.

I sometimes think I have stumbled on a strange alternate universe when I see calls for Jeffries, Billy Brown, Jimmy Calderwood and now Alex Miller to get the managers job. Mental times indeed.

E10 Rifle
21-11-2011, 10:14 PM
Was there any real youth set-up back then? I thought boys just got plucked randomly from their schools or clubs depending on how hard their dads pushed them! I thought Miller sowed the seeds of our youth policy of today. Did he not bring Donald Park to the club to kick it all off or do I have my tight white shorts of the 80's in a twist??

Emerald
21-11-2011, 11:26 PM
http://www.footybits.co.uk/images/hibs8990match.jpg

Emerald
21-11-2011, 11:44 PM
Was there any real youth set-up back then? I thought boys just got plucked randomly from their schools or clubs depending on how hard their dads pushed them! I thought Miller sowed the seeds of our youth policy of today. Did he not bring Donald Park to the club to kick it all off or do I have my tight white shorts of the 80's in a twist??
Maybe John Collins, Mickey Weir, David Fellinger, Gordon Hunter, Callum Milne.......................... most of whom came from Hutchie Vale which Hibs had a 'bond' with back then. 'Gordon Neely?, had a fantastic reputation for bringing players through, but then moved to Rangers.

So, we sign good players , they go west, we sign good managers, they go west, we sign good scouts and coatches...............AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AK86
22-11-2011, 01:21 AM
He could wear a freakin' pink tutu so long as the team wasn't rolling over the way it is now.

Nor do I remember us being repeatedly 'outfought in derbies' - my recollection is that we regularly played well, didn't carry much of the luck, and a certain rotund centre-forward of the Hearts persuasion punished us over and over again.

The team was organised, properly set up and prepared for matches, and had a lot of very good players in it.

And please, speak no ill of Joe T - he could play half our present squad off the park, and frustrating as he was, there was never any question of his commitment to the cause. (Ask Gordon Strachan!)

Mark McGraw was, I thought, shaping OK until he was injured. As for his laddies, by that time the writing was on the wall - he and Dougie Cromb were being pushed out by a group on the board who wanted change at any price. He knew well we needed a striker, but he was allowed no money to bring one in. Maybe Greg and Graeme were Alex's way of making a point.

Anyway, we got change; Dougie was pushed out, Alex moved on to better things (CL winner as assistant manager with Liverpool), and we settled down to life after Alex Miller.

The price we paid for the change, IIRC, was Jim Duffy and relegation.
your memory is playing tricks with you
we were unlucky in a few derbies, most of the time we were out fought
mcgraw was mince. Trust me.Well out his depth
yes joe t was frustrating, he couldn,t kick his arse
And if playing his sons was his way of making a point:na na: then he should have been shot

Stevie Reid
22-11-2011, 09:48 AM
Wasn't it 7-0 with a win a few days later in a Derby temporarily saving him his job?

It was indeed 7-0, though it is worth bearing in mind that it was against Rangers' 9 in a row team, and we were 3rd in the league at the time. It was a disastrous result, but the NY derby win a few days later certainly helped.

E10 Rifle
22-11-2011, 11:39 AM
Wasn't it 7-0 with a win a few days later in a Derby temporarily saving him his job?

7-0! God I must have been drunk that day :bevvied!:

scott7_0(Prague)
22-11-2011, 11:48 AM
I remember the 'Lexo' years very well, just as I remember Joe Totolano having lightning pace and being able to whip in a brilliant cross about 3 times out of 10. He needed time to build a team, just as he needed to keep us up and consolidate in the first few years in charge.
It's fashionable to slag him off now, but take a look at this team, they'd rip the rest of the SPL apart today...
http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

http://thehiblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/squad93-94.jpg

Look at his coaching team... compare that to the last 5 ot 6 Hibs managers..

The Gorf
22-11-2011, 12:24 PM
Funnily enough, I am 56 and I don't remember the Manager getting as much publicity as they do now. You just went along and paid your money to watch good football with players who were playing for not that great a wage but they were playing for the jersey and the club. I miss that a lot. And changing ends at half time by walking round to the other end. Brill.

superfurryhibby
22-11-2011, 01:02 PM
The Miller era. I well remember overly-defensive line ups, 22 in a row, the inability to find a left back for ten years, fantastic players (Weir, Wright, Jackson, Mcallister, O'Neil, McGinlay) and some huddies whom played far too many games (Hamilton, Tortolano).

Many folk with inside knowledge said that Miller wasn't exactly inspirational in his manner and that his man management skills were somewhat lacking. He got a good crack at it and built some good teams but overall it wasn't pretty to watch.

Franck is God
22-11-2011, 01:08 PM
John Blackley was the manager when my Dad started taking me every week and Miller arrived as manager soon after. My memory is that most years we were in the bottom half of the table and had a dreadful record against Hearts.

Credit must be given for sticking with Hibs through the Mercer business and bulding a side to win the Skol cup in 1991, it is still one of my best memories as a Hibs fan but the quote from that day 'I was a winner as a player and now as a manager' will stay in my head forever as it got him another five years in charge of the club.

When he left I'm pretty sure we had 53 signed players at the club, Duffy got the blame for us going down but Miller's signing policy left us with an aging squad lacking in quality and we were definitely on the way down a long time before he left.

I think the ten years under Miller is why I've not been too fussed about how things have been at ER in the couple of seasons because quite frankly it's still better than how it was back then.

smurf
22-11-2011, 01:18 PM
1986-1991 Horrendous.

1991-1995 Good times.

1996 Horrendous. And he left a mess that the Janny and Duffy made worse.

judas
22-11-2011, 07:48 PM
I have to end up writing this on every Miller thread but he managed Hibs mostly in the pre-Bosman era and when there were just 2 (or latterly 3) substitutes making for much smaller matchday squads.

This meant that free transfers were incredibly rare, and there were no wholesale changes every close season, with 5-6 players going out and coming in - he had to build a team gradually as he went on, adding only one or two every year with the same number going out, culminating in 2 excellent teams, the 1991 Skol Cup Final and the 1993 side that finished 3rd, split the Old Firm, missed 2nd place by a point, and lost as few games as Champions Rangers who were in the middle of 9 in a row.

If the first few years were boring, it was because we were crap and the only way to improve was to make us hard to beat, which he certainly did - but the gradual building of the team meant more and more exciting players coming in, and any team that includes Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay in it was certainly not boring. Would he have lasted 4 years in the current climate? Probably not. But could we have been in a far worse situation had someone else managed us during the Mercer take over bid? Absolutely.

To win a trophy so soon after we faced oblivion was a remarkable achievement, and the lack of appreciation for that ranks alongside those who make derogatory comments about JC as one the most perplexing things about the Hibs support. Yes Lexo was dour and many folk disliked him for that (but then many hated Yogi for being a "character" too), and the derby record was shocking but I don't think history has judged Miller fairly.

In his second last season we finished 3rd in the SPL, one point behind Motherwell in 2nd place and lost as few games as the league winners. We scored one less goal than Motherwell and had +12 goal difference compared to their zero. We finished 2 points ahead of Celtic (admittedly in dark days for them), and scored 10 more goals than them. In his last full season we finished 5th in the SPL (10 teams).

The following season Miller resigned after another disastrous derby against Hearts which we lost 3-1 - by this point we had played 7 games and had 10 points from our 3 wins, 3 defeats and a draw. We were dealing with a reduced budget due to the reconstruction of ER, and the squad suffered as a result - we brought in the likes of Ian Cameron to replace Michael O'Neill, for example. At this point, Hearts were doing the opposite - signing Neil McCann, Colin Cameron, Davie Weir and Jim Hamilton whilst getting extension after extension to keep that embarrassment of an away end open - so it shows just how long they've been overspending to gain success on the field at the expense of their infrastructure, and why the council should NEVER be allowed to help them out.

This transitional period under Miller and Hearts' renaissance under Jefferies (along with his dreadful derby record) definitely worked against AM, who was never the most popular even during the best times of his tenure. The 7-0 defeat at Ibrox certainly didn't help either, much like Celtic's resurgance under Tommy Burns, and both the OF turned us over by some considerable scores both home and away, which had been a rarity for all of Miller's tenure until that point. Basically the huge gap in spending between the OF and Hearts and the rest of the league was starting to show (I'm sure Aberdeen were still spending in their old fashioned ways at this point, but without any results).

Anyway, after Jocky Scott took over in the interim, followed by Jim Duffy, both were allowed to sign players in a classic example of funds only being made available in panic situations (IIRC, Scott was allowed to spend a quarter of a million on Yogi) - had these funds been made available to Miller when he was there, his signing record would strongly suggest that we would continue progressing. It would also have saved us spending the fortune that we did after McLeish came in, and getting out of the 1st Division.

As it was, having finished 3rd and 5th in his last two seasons, we were 5th in the league when Miller left - and finished the season in 9th place. The following season we finished 10th, and were relegated.

Would happily have him as Director of Football.

Very good indeed. So much truth in there. The bits in bold (above) certainly resonate for me.

Glass half full
22-11-2011, 11:13 PM
It's all about opinions. Most of the better Miller side would walk into the current team but it was an era when the wage differential with England wasn't so much of an issue and contract registrations were very different. You could hold onto players then.

Billy Finlay was mentioned as "mince" yet at one point he went to train with the Scotland squad in North America before Scotland went to a World Cup. Rated as an outstanding prospect. He never fulfilled it.

Some players do an important role within a team. Hamilton was always criticised on the terracing yet without him in the holding role, McGinlay would not have got forward as often to score the goals he did and the wingers and full backs, well Mitchell apart as we did have a series of questionable left backs, were covered when they went forward. It is about the team, Claude Makelele left Real Madrid to make way for another Galacticos and they didn't win anything for years. Sometimes you need someone fulfilling the unglamour role to allow others to play. How many times on here have I read about needing someone to play in Matty Jack role?

Miller's day is behind us, although he almost one us two trophies (McCoist's lucky overhead kick!!!) and we punched above our weight on some occasions. On a point to reminise; anyone remember Anderlect away? Outstanding!

majorhibs
23-11-2011, 04:29 PM
It's all about opinions. Most of the better Miller side would walk into the current team but it was an era when the wage differential with England wasn't so much of an issue and contract registrations were very different. You could hold onto players then.

Billy Finlay was mentioned as "mince" yet at one point he went to train with the Scotland squad in North America before Scotland went to a World Cup. Rated as an outstanding prospect. He never fulfilled it.

Some players do an important role within a team. Hamilton was always criticised on the terracing yet without him in the holding role, McGinlay would not have got forward as often to score the goals he did and the wingers and full backs, well Mitchell apart as we did have a series of questionable left backs, were covered when they went forward. It is about the team, Claude Makelele left Real Madrid to make way for another Galacticos and they didn't win anything for years. Sometimes you need someone fulfilling the unglamour role to allow others to play. How many times on here have I read about needing someone to play in Matty Jack role?

Miller's day is behind us, although he almost one us two trophies (McCoist's lucky overhead kick!!!) and we punched above our weight on some occasions. On a point to reminise; anyone remember Anderlect away? Outstanding!

Hamilton was slated because maybe once a season he looked like & did everything to show you he had what it takes then the next 40 odd games he made a backside of the simple things time & time again in games & personally I lost patience early wi him due to his continual mistakes, he wasnae getting critiscised by virtually everybody for no reason, Findlay got a 5 year contract when that sort of contract was unheard of, Miller made him out to be the next Pat Stanton, he virtually never kicked a baw after gettin the contract, I could point to countless things about Millers years as boss as I lived every one of them 24/7 in them days but I remember him early doors, when we were gettin beat again in a bad run from the wrong side of Edinburgh, basically goin on about how this was just another 2 points dropped, part o the season, not a big deal blah blah blah, he just NEVER seemed to get how HUGE it was tae US, I could not take Millers derby displays, I could not take what happened in those games & bein condescended to by the manager immediately afterwards was what did him for me, I remember 3 good years wi him & before & after he was defensive & boring, I didnae like the fact he was a hun but I could have lived wi it but what did me in was his teams displays against that shower & his indifference to it, I was hurtin after the saturdays in them days but to have the manager, as I felt it at the time, rub salt intae the wounds because to him it was only 2 points & water off a ducks back in his book- sorry but he lost me there. Beatin them is really all I care about- the rest is the rest- & it did not mean enough to him.