Clubs in Administration

[PatHead]

I was speaking to a couple of Celtic fans (both season ticket holders) in the pub over the weekend. They have advised me Rangers will go into administration next month. Irrespective of whether they have got the date correct it would appear to be safe to assume it is a matter of when rather than if they go into administration.

It was the next part of the discussion that worried me. They stated that the SPL will automatically deduct 10 points from any team that goes into administration. As things stand that won't alter the league positions. Once this has been done the SPL board will meet to decide whether to deduct up to another 15 additional points. The board comprises of Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline? representatives along with the chair. A simple majority carries.

Although they disagree with it the Celtic supporters reckon that their representative will push for no additional points (they need a strong Rangers), it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out which way Hearts will vote, I know Dundee Utd will vote for an extra 15 points and Dunfermline don't lie down to the "Old Firm" normally. This means that Rod Petrie could be the man to set a precedent which Hearts could follow. Personally I feel administration should lead to an automatic relegation but leaving this aside I feel it is important that Hibs know the fans feelings in the event of a team going into administration so

1. Do you feel a 10 point deduction is appropriate?
2. How do we transmit our feelings to the board without prejudicing any case?

[Cabbage East]

There's a whole lot of assumptions being made there. My opinion is that any team going into administration should automatically be relegated, 10 points is not punishment enough. Look at what Motherwell got away with, that was a disgrace and not much of a deterrant.

[Gus Fring]

I think it depends on the team being given the deduction. 10 points is nothing to Rangers, they'l still be top of the league but say it was Hibs for eg we would struggle to get 3 wins and a draw to make up for it so it would hurt us more. Rangers definitely need a bigger deduction as a punishment

[EasterRoad4Ever]

I was speaking to a couple of Celtic fans (both season ticket holders) in the pub over the weekend. They have advised me Rangers will go into administration next month. Irrespective of whether they have got the date correct it would appear to be safe to assume it is a matter of when rather than if they go into administration.

It was the next part of the discussion that worried me. They stated that the SPL will automatically deduct 10 points from any team that goes into administration. As things stand that won't alter the league positions. Once this has been done the SPL board will meet to decide whether to deduct up to another 15 additional points. The board comprises of Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline? representatives along with the chair. A simple majority carries.

Although they disagree with it the Celtic supporters reckon that their representative will push for no additional points (they need a strong Rangers), it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out which way Hearts will vote, I know Dundee Utd will vote for an extra 15 points and Dunfermline don't lie down to the "Old Firm" normally. This means that Rod Petrie could be the man to set a precedent which Hearts could follow. Personally I feel administration should lead to an automatic relegation but leaving this aside I feel it is important that Hibs know the fans feelings in the event of a team going into administration so

1. Do you feel a 10 point deduction is appropriate?
2. How do we transmit our feelings to the board without prejudicing any case?

Of course not, the SPL and SFA should strip the huns of all trophies won over the last 5 years (as they have been funding the club with over peoples money e.g. HMRC/ours !). And they should seek a return of the some of the money paid to them for league placings, and probably any money they got from Europe too. 10 points is not even a slap on the wrist.

[Saorsa]

I certainly dinnae think that 10 points is enough. That maybe enough tae get you relegated if you are at the wrong end of the table but if you are near the top it may cost you a few places in the league which IMO is naewhere near enough, in the case of the OF it may cost them nothing as they are usually 30 points in front of everybody by the end. IMO teams spending beyond their means tae try and gain an advantage over the competition are doing nothing less than cheating. -25 points or indeed automatic relegation are the least they should get.

[Andy74]

Well, if a couple of Celtic season ticket holders think so then it must be happening.

[happiehibbie]

Administration is not that simple the people you owe money too must agree to except a payment example 50p in th pound due to the HMRC being owed the most this can not happen as they cannot be seen to be excepting less as we all have to pay tax so they are due joe public the money

[Sylar]

Of course not, the SPL and SFA should strip the huns of all trophies won over the last 5 years (as they have been funding the club with over peoples money e.g. HMRC/ours !). And they should seek a return of the some of the money paid to them for league placings, and probably any money they got from Europe too. 10 points is not even a slap on the wrist.

It's also not the only consequence for a club being dumped into administration.

I wish folks (not you ER4E) would quit bleating on about "advisements" of Rangers going into administration when it's Tims who are constantly fuelling the rumours. Just because they are season ticket holders or members of a supporters club gives them absolutely no credentials or reason they would have any knowledge about the matter.

My fiance's parents are both ST holders at Ibrox, both bond members and both own shares in the club. They have a corporate box/hospitality package which they use for a dozen games throughout the season. I wouldn't even take THEIR word as gospel on the internal workings at Rangers, as quite frankly, nobody has a clue what's going on in the Ibrox boardroom, other than the board of directors.

[IFONLY]

Well, if a couple of Celtic season ticket holders think so then it must be happening.

Exactly!!!!

[PatHead]

There's a whole lot of assumptions being made there. My opinion is that any team going into administration should automatically be relegated, 10 points is not punishment enough. Look at what Motherwell got away with, that was a disgrace and not much of a deterrant.

Re your assumptions comment. If Celtic fans believe this to be the case that seems reasonable to me, Hearts are not going to encourage a precedent which would apply to them. I know from a good source that D Utd are in favour of higher punishments. That only leaves an assumption re Dunfermline. We all seem to agree that 10 points isn't enough but how do we ensure that Hibs don't just roll over? No sense in moaning after the event.

[muzzhfc]

i have also heard that rangers will go into administration. i dont think relegation is the way forward, massive point deduction but we do know we need the huns as they attracts the big crouds. although i can see their "loyal" fans ceasing to attend if they become "poor" (avarage spl side)

[Andy74]

Re your assumptions comment. If Celtic fans believe this to be the case that seems reasonable to me.

Really?

[PatHead]

Exactly!!!!

Sorry you are missing the point. What I am saying is that if Rangers (or anyone-hearts, Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, it doesn't matter) go into administration they incurring a 10 point penalty. I do not believe this is enough. There is no sense in bleating about it after the Gents Club also known as the SPL board have slapped them on the wrists. Our Board should know the fans position.

Any club who has overpaid players systematically over the years should be penalised for cheating. To me it is as big an advantage as having extra players on the park. Ignore the Rangers issue, it is the procedure that is at fault.

By the way, for what it is worth based on Rangers comments about the implications of the tax case, I believe they will go into administration if they lose the case. I realise HMRC will not be delighted at having to accept a pittance but they will be aware that they can't get money out of a business which doesn't have any.

[PatHead]

Of course not, the SPL and SFA should strip the huns of all trophies won over the last 5 years (as they have been funding the club with over peoples money e.g. HMRC/ours !). And they should seek a return of the some of the money paid to them for league placings, and probably any money they got from Europe too. 10 points is not even a slap on the wrist.

In the event of a club going in to administration they surely should wipe the slate clean and strip them of all trophies won since inception as it is a new club or firm in place.

[Jones28]

The number of times folk have come on here and said Hearts or Rangers are going into administration is crazy so until its confirmed and on the news IMO people need to stop posting on here that they've heard from Tims, there dads pal Billy who is "in the know" or anyone else.

As far as administration goes I think clubs should be made to start over again from scratch Ie regional leagues and working there way up.

[.Whitey.]

I also heard that they will be changing their name to Rangers 2012 - probably a load of rubbish tbh

10 point deduction is rediculous! they should be relegated!

[erin go bragh]

Administration is not that simple the people you owe money too must agree to except a payment example 50p in th pound due to the HMRC being owed the most this can not happen as they cannot be seen to be excepting less as we all have to pay tax so they are due joe public the money

Did Dundee not pay 3p in the pound when they went into Administration .
25 points for how many years cheating would still be a joke , get them in the highland league i say :greengrin


GGTTH

[johnrebus]

I was speaking to a couple of Celtic fans (both season ticket holders) in the pub over the weekend. They have advised me Rangers will go into administration next month. Irrespective of whether they have got the date correct it would appear to be safe to assume it is a matter of when rather than if they go into administration.

It was the next part of the discussion that worried me. They stated that the SPL will automatically deduct 10 points from any team that goes into administration. As things stand that won't alter the league positions. Once this has been done the SPL board will meet to decide whether to deduct up to another 15 additional points. The board comprises of Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline? representatives along with the chair. A simple majority carries.

Although they disagree with it the Celtic supporters reckon that their representative will push for no additional points (they need a strong Rangers), it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out which way Hearts will vote, I know Dundee Utd will vote for an extra 15 points and Dunfermline don't lie down to the "Old Firm" normally. This means that Rod Petrie could be the man to set a precedent which Hearts could follow. Personally I feel administration should lead to an automatic relegation but leaving this aside I feel it is important that Hibs know the fans feelings in the event of a team going into administration so

1. Do you feel a 10 point deduction is appropriate?
2. How do we transmit our feelings to the board without prejudicing any case?



Sorry, but like me and everyone else on this and every other clubs fans website, we know sweet **** all about whether Rangers will go into administration or not. Only Craig Whyte will know that, and even then the Inland Revenue case has not been concluded yet. Whose to say they will not wriggle out of it anyway?

Celtic have enough problems of their own right now, perhaps your two season ticket holding friends would be better concentrating on those.

:bitchy:

[Judas Iscariot]

Well, if a couple of Celtic season ticket holders think so then it must be happening.

:agree:

[PatHead]

Wish I hadn't mentioned it referring to Rangers. I wasn't fully aware of how Administration was treated by the SPL/SFA until I had the conversation with these Celtic supporters hence the reference.

I agree that we don't know who will be first to go into administration and once one club goes I am sure others will follow. For the record I don't believe it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to us whether Rangers were deducted 1 or 25 points. Personally I favour relegation to the bottom league like Livingston and the club should then have to work their way through the system. At this time Motherwell are reaping the benefits of shafting anyone they owed. Personally I don't think it is fair. You should live within your means.

The point I am trying to make is about how the SPL treats clubs in administration. Their procedure of 10 points is wholly inadequate and this should be changed prior to any club going into administration. Whether that club be Hearts or Kilmarnock or Rangers doesn't matter. What is wrong is that clubs who have been prudent for years, like Hibs, are getting systematically shafted by cheats.

There is no point in moaning about it in the event of a club getting away with being deducted 10 points. The rules should be changed now and I would like to see Hibs ensure they do their bit to protect our interests. Ideally I would like the board to be proactive in promoting the relegation rule or at least docking points for a number of seasons and stripping the club of any future bonuses due through league position.

[johnrebus]

Wish I hadn't mentioned it referring to Rangers. I wasn't fully aware of how Administration was treated by the SPL/SFA until I had the conversation with these Celtic supporters hence the reference.

I agree that we don't know who will be first to go into administration and once one club goes I am sure others will follow. For the record I don't believe it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to us whether Rangers were deducted 1 or 25 points. Personally I favour relegation to the bottom league like Livingston and the club should then have to work their way through the system. At this time Motherwell are reaping the benefits of shafting anyone they owed. Personally I don't think it is fair. You should live within your means.

The point I am trying to make is about how the SPL treats clubs in administration. Their procedure of 10 points is wholly inadequate and this should be changed prior to any club going into administration. Whether that club be Hearts or Kilmarnock or Rangers doesn't matter. What is wrong is that clubs who have been prudent for years, like Hibs, are getting systematically shafted by cheats.

There is no point in moaning about it in the event of a club getting away with being deducted 10 points. The rules should be changed now and I would like to see Hibs ensure they do their bit to protect our interests. Ideally I would like the board to be proactive in promoting the relegation rule or at least docking points for a number of seasons and stripping the club of any future bonuses due through league position.

If Rangers do go into administration, there is no way they will be relegated.

They are - unfortunately- as much an institution as a football club. It would not be allowed to happen.

However, if it was to be Hearts...........,

:devil:

[horseflesh]

I'm pretty sure that if they try to start again with a new name ie Rangers Utd then they are not allowed to compete in Europe for a certain amount of years (think its 3). Although you could argue that they havent competed in Europe for years anyway!

[greenginger]

Don't think our Rod will have a say in it as far as SPL Board is concerned as he resigned his position when he was appointed SFA Vice President.

Personally I would hit Rangers as hard as possible. Not out of spite, but this could be a one and only opportunity to level the playing field of Scottish Football. Sure all clubs will be hit in the pocket but it will give teams a chance to grow their local support.

The argument that the whole of Scottish Football is dependent on a Four-times-a-season Bigot-Fest otherwise known as the Old Firm Games is truly depressing. A crippled Rangers would allow Celtic to dominate but without their hated enemy to force them on they too will weaken and a challenge from the other Scottish Clubs may be possible.

There is no doubt this Old Firm Contest and the rest of us making up the numbers is killing the game in Scotland and the clubs must be made to see self interest is not the Status Quo but a change to a new and more competitive climate for the game.

[PatHead]

Don't think our Rod will have a say in it as far as SPL Board is concerned as he resigned his position when he was appointed SFA Vice President. Sorry wasn't aware of this. Defeats my thought we could make a difference.

Personally I would hit Rangers as hard as possible. Not out of spite, but this could be a one and only opportunity to level the playing field of Scottish Football. Sure all clubs will be hit in the pocket but it will give teams a chance to grow their local support.

The argument that the whole of Scottish Football is dependent on a Four-times-a-season Bigot-Fest otherwise known as the Old Firm Games is truly depressing. A crippled Rangers would allow Celtic to dominate but without their hated enemy to force them on they too will weaken and a challenge from the other Scottish Clubs may be possible.

There is no doubt this Old Firm Contest and the rest of us making up the numbers is killing the game in Scotland and the clubs must be made to see self interest is not the Status Quo but a change to a new and more competitive climate for the game.

They did stand up with the 10 team league! Maybe they would do so again, though I doubt it

[greenginger]

They did stand up with the 10 team league! Maybe they would do so again, though I doubt it


I'm sure Hibs will have a say, as I think all remaining 11 SPL Clubs would have a vote on this issue.

I just hope Clubs see the bigger picture rather than concentrating on next season's bottom line.

[CentreLine]

I posted this before but think it is worth repearing in the context of this thread.

Should one or both of rangers and hahahahearts go bust I believe that the SFA and SPL will be failing in their role if they did not relegate the teams that rise from the ashes, ranger 2012, hearts1874 or whatever they call themselves. Failure to relegate teams in adminstration would give totally the wrong message to clubs tempted to live beyond their means and also damage the credibility and integrity of the Scottish game

However, if one or both teams were relegated to the 3rd Division, It would take them a minimum of three years to get back on to the Premier League. They would be barred from European competition for three years anyway. However, in that three year period they would play every club in the lower leagues a minimum of twice at their (the opposition) ground and offering them the chance of a close to sell-out crowd on each occasion. This would inject some much needed cash in to the lower leagues of Scottish football and allow the players there to test themselves against what would be considered better players. Many lower league clubs complained about the unfair competition when Livingston were relegated but Livingston did not offer the chance of decent gate receipts. We hear a lot about the 1st Division clubs considering themselves to be good value for money against SPL opposition. This should ensure that it is by no mean certain that either club would make it back to the SPL at the first attempt.

During the same three year period the top two places in the SPL would be up for grabs increasing the level of interest and competition and offering the realistic possibility of someone, other than the Old Firm, lifting the SPL Trophy on a now level playing field. It would be realistic to anticipate this raised level of interest would encourage fans back to the game and maintain TV and sponsor levels.

The redistribution of income throughout the Scottish game might just be what it needs and it would conveniently quarantine two teams, ineligible for the European places, whilst ensuring that they earned any return to the top table.

Finally, by the time rangers got back to the top flight, just maybe, the bigotry in the game would have subsided in their absence.

So for me it is a win win situation if the SFA/SPL showed the bottle the situation requires

[PatHead]

I posted this before but think it is worth repearing in the context of this thread.

Should one or both of rangers and hahahahearts go bust I believe that the SFA and SPL will be failing in their role if they did not relegate the teams that rise from the ashes, ranger 2012, hearts1874 or whatever they call themselves. Failure to relegate teams in adminstration would give totally the wrong message to clubs tempted to live beyond their means and also damage the credibility and integrity of the Scottish game

However, if one or both teams were relegated to the 3rd Division, It would take them a minimum of three years to get back on to the Premier League. They would be barred from European competition for three years anyway. However, in that three year period they would play every club in the lower leagues a minimum of twice at their (the opposition) ground and offering them the chance of a close to sell-out crowd on each occasion. This would inject some much needed cash in to the lower leagues of Scottish football and allow the players there to test themselves against what would be considered better players. Many lower league clubs complained about the unfair competition when Livingston were relegated but Livingston did not offer the chance of decent gate receipts. We hear a lot about the 1st Division clubs considering themselves to be good value for money against SPL opposition. This should ensure that it is by no mean certain that either club would make it back to the SPL at the first attempt.

During the same three year period the top two places in the SPL would be up for grabs increasing the level of interest and competition and offering the realistic possibility of someone, other than the Old Firm, lifting the SPL Trophy on a now level playing field. It would be realistic to anticipate this raised level of interest would encourage fans back to the game and maintain TV and sponsor levels.

The redistribution of income throughout the Scottish game might just be what it needs and it would conveniently quarantine two teams, ineligible for the European places, whilst ensuring that they earned any return to the top table.

Finally, by the time rangers got back to the top flight, just maybe, the bigotry in the game would have subsided in their absence.

So for me it is a win win situation if the SFA/SPL showed the bottle the situation requires

Couldn't agree more and glad someone else can see the point I was trying to make. Only thing is- how do we let boards know it is unacceptable as it stands. I do believe it would make our game an even bigger laughing stock if clubs did get away with a 10 point deduction and still won the league. Game would lose even more credibility and chase even more fans away from the farce.

:devil:Other alternative could be to live well beyond our means, have a good 10 or so years , get into Europe on a regular basis, maybe even win the Scottish, then say stuff you to everyone, go into administration, then repeat as necessary.

[tanfield]

Administration is not that simple the people you owe money too must agree to except a payment example 50p in th pound due to the HMRC being owed the most this can not happen as they cannot be seen to be excepting less as we all have to pay tax so they are due joe public the money

Kenny, my understanding of administration is that the directors can simply petition the court to enter administration. The enterprise act 2003 removed the crown as a preferential creditor so if let's say Rangers do enter administration HMRC would rank alongside all other unsecured creditors, I.e. Shafted!

Quite happy to be corrected on this.

[PatHead]

Kenny, my understanding of administration is that the directors can simply petition the court to enter administration. The enterprise act 2003 removed the crown as a preferential creditor so if let's say Rangers do enter administration HMRC would rank alongside all other unsecured creditors, I.e. Shafted!

Quite happy to be corrected on this.

Whilst HMRC are no longer preferred creditors, creditors have to agree to take their "10p in the pound". It is also a large majority of creditors (can't remember exact amount) are required to agree to the administration agreement. This was Pompey's problem when they almost went to the wall in that they (the administrators) almost couldn't get enough creditors to agree. HMRC was a vocal creditor who didn't agree.

[Hibby cal]

I had an accountant in my taxi on sat night, he'd been at tynecastle all day. He reckons they are also in so much trouble that I would not believe it . Says they are likely to go into admin by Christmas time

[MSK]

Kenny, my understanding of administration is that the directors can simply petition the court to enter administration. The enterprise act 2003 removed the crown as a preferential creditor so if let's say Rangers do enter administration HMRC would rank alongside all other unsecured creditors, I.e. Shafted!

Quite happy to be corrected on this.That no me Andy ...:tsk tsk:

[The Falcon]

The whole purpose of administration is being roundly abused and the rules manipulated by football clubs (in particular) as a means of abdicating their responsibility to their debtors, some of whom are small companies who are reliant on the income, that have supplied either the goods or services and deserve to be paid.

As a penalty the clubs should be removed from the league structure immediately and have to wait 5 years before they can re apply, entering at the lowest level of the pyramid if they are deemed to be ready to be readmitted.

To choose to enter admin the month before Christmas, while outspending all their competitors on wages, is both despicable and disgraceful.

[basehibby]

No way is 10 points enough of a punishment - the reason Rangers are in such trouble is because they have been caught cheating on a vast scale over a number of seasons - as a result they have won numerous trophies they had no right to at the expense of all the other sides in these competitions and they should be absolutely hammered for this - relegation to division 3 would be an appropriate punishment IMO.

[The Green Goblin]

I posted this before but think it is worth repearing in the context of this thread.

Should one or both of rangers and hahahahearts go bust I believe that the SFA and SPL will be failing in their role if they did not relegate the teams that rise from the ashes, ranger 2012, hearts1874 or whatever they call themselves. Failure to relegate teams in adminstration would give totally the wrong message to clubs tempted to live beyond their means and also damage the credibility and integrity of the Scottish game

However, if one or both teams were relegated to the 3rd Division, It would take them a minimum of three years to get back on to the Premier League. They would be barred from European competition for three years anyway. However, in that three year period they would play every club in the lower leagues a minimum of twice at their (the opposition) ground and offering them the chance of a close to sell-out crowd on each occasion. This would inject some much needed cash in to the lower leagues of Scottish football and allow the players there to test themselves against what would be considered better players. Many lower league clubs complained about the unfair competition when Livingston were relegated but Livingston did not offer the chance of decent gate receipts. We hear a lot about the 1st Division clubs considering themselves to be good value for money against SPL opposition. This should ensure that it is by no mean certain that either club would make it back to the SPL at the first attempt.

During the same three year period the top two places in the SPL would be up for grabs increasing the level of interest and competition and offering the realistic possibility of someone, other than the Old Firm, lifting the SPL Trophy on a now level playing field. It would be realistic to anticipate this raised level of interest would encourage fans back to the game and maintain TV and sponsor levels.

The redistribution of income throughout the Scottish game might just be what it needs and it would conveniently quarantine two teams, ineligible for the European places, whilst ensuring that they earned any return to the top table.

Finally, by the time rangers got back to the top flight, just maybe, the bigotry in the game would have subsided in their absence.

So for me it is a win win situation if the SFA/SPL showed the bottle the situation requires


What a great post! Sadly, you and I both know that the powers that be will do everything they can to make a special case for Rangers alone, never mind Hearts. We all know that when push comes to shove, we can expect to see the usual double standards and spineless (lack of) appropriate response...

GG

[nortonhibby]

Of course not, the SPL and SFA should strip the huns of all trophies won over the last 5 years (as they have been funding the club with over peoples money e.g. HMRC/ours !). And they should seek a return of the some of the money paid to them for league placings, and probably any money they got from Europe too. 10 points is not even a slap on the wrist.

they would also be banned from all European competitions for 3 years/seasons after going into Administration that would hurt them in the pocket.

[SuperEddieT]

It's clearly not enough. It's 2 fingers to everyone if they were to do this. It appears there is no "real" punishment. Because they have such a huge cashflow from matchdays, most of their creditors will be happy to take a hit if they can handle it. Those that can't take an x in the £ deal will go to the wall. Their space will be taken up by many more companies eager for the business. SPL clubs will of course not be interested in an automatic relegation for Rangers as they would lose a sizeable chunk of gate receipts.

Certainly no incentive to run your club properly is there?

[stubru59]

[QUOTE=The Falcon;2987913]The whole purpose of administration is being roundly abused and the rules manipulated by football clubs (in particular) as a means of abdicating their responsibility to their debtors, some of whom are small companies who are reliant on the income, that have supplied either the goods or services and deserve to be paid.

As a penalty the clubs should be removed from the league structure immediately and have to wait 5 years before they can re apply, entering at the lowest level of the pyramid if they are deemed to be ready to be readmitted.

To choose to enter admin the month before Christmas, while outspending all their competitors on wages, is both despicable and disgraceful.

:agree:

In plain language its called cheating.

[The_Famous_HFC]

StDid none of you watch the Craig Whyte show? If rangers , or anyone, goes into admin they get deducted 10 points. They then only incur a further 15 points at the start of every season they remain in Admin.A far as I am aware there wil be no vote....let alone any plans on a vote next month based on knowledge that Rangers will go into administration.

[heidtheba]

That's a hard one. I'm completely torn over what I would do if I had the power over these clubs. Part of me feels that administration after living outwith their means should result in automatic relegation...BUT...I also think that there is a big problem with this. Take our present situation for example. Lots of people on here aren't terribly impressed with our board's choices and support in terms of management for the playing staff. So how would I feel if our board had gotten the management and playing staff right but had totally noised up the club's finances? I'd feel that if the board had taken decisions that affected our finances and we were to be relegated that the fans would suffer a lot more than the club. Playing staff change, management changes, boards change but the fans don't. If a club is in severe financial irregularities and then are relegated, possibly causing the death of the club...do I think this would be fair on the fans? I'd not want that to happen. Even to 'them'.
It would annoy me that years of success had been bought with other people's money whilst clubs like ourselves generally lived within their means, but I still think that regulation after financial problems could kill more than a few clubs. We don't need that right now.
Perhaps if there was some way fans could directly influence the path of the club, and then be partly responsible for whatever happens, then I could see the justice in taking a club down, until then, should even people like the Hertz fans, who have (unless I'm totally wrong) little choice over the route their club has taken, suffer because of someone like Vlad?
I'd suggest that would be very unfair.

[archiebald]

Did Livingston get relegated for going into administration ?

[greenlex]

Did Livingston get relegated for going into administration ?

They got relegated for not fulfilling Or guaranteeing to fulfill a fixture or something like that.