Support for the board..change is a must

[Littlest Hobo]

I don't think we should be trying to remove the current board - I believe we have one of the best run clubs business wise in the country.

I'm glad that they have had a warning shot across their bow though, because some things need to change.

I don't want the business folk at our club deciding what players come or go to our club.

Choosing players should be left to the football people....scouts and manager only.

Choosing a manager is a lottery, nobody knows if a manager will be succesful or not until they actually get that chance.

Managers should at the very least get three seasons and have our team fit, and working hard for each other. I haven't seen too much of that lately.

The way we go about identifying good quality players isn't working.

The people who have done that job in the past have failed to bring in the right type of player and should be relieved of that duty immediatly.

I believe we need to build our team from the back first....right through the spine and then concentrate on bringing in jersey sellers like Ivan Sproule + Garry O.

I would like to see us play players in their positions..there is a lot to be said for continuity!

All I see at the minute are players getting played out of position.....you have a better chance of winning a contract these days if you can fill a number of positions ....that has to be wrong. Yes we do need those players but we need a strong first eleven.

Skimping on buying a player for a position because you have cover (LEWIS STEVENSON) isn't the way to go about building a team in my opinion.
I honestly don't think we have had a proper starting eleven for as long as i can remember.

Emty seats will become occupied if we can get some quality on the park.......it's that simple MR. PETRIE

[tamig]

Couple of things.

Have you read any of the threads from the AGM? It was clearly stated there that the manager has full autonomy over all footballing decisions - so no interference from upstairs. If the wrong players have been signed - in your opinion - I don't think that can be down to the board.

Most of the rest of your post was around the footballing side - so lets hope the new manager can get things moving in the right direction. We are changing the manager - which most of your points appear to be aimed at.

[Beefster]

I believe we have one of the best run clubs business wise in the country.

In what way? We just made a loss, turnover is falling, the crowds are plummeting, there is no strategy for attracting new customers (as opposed to getting old customers back), apathy amongst the customer base is at its highest point for years, there are grumbles about the way that just about every area of the club is run and, as usual, the only idea they have is 'if we get it right on the pitch everything else will sort itself out'.

I'll give you spending the spending of the vast profits from player sales on infrastructure and debt reduction but that wasn't exactly innovative, unless you are Hearts.

I've said this before but there is this perception that the executive team/Board's only job is to balance the books. As a result, they get an incredibly easy ride from the support.

[Littlest Hobo]

Couple of things.

Have you read any of the threads from the AGM? It was clearly stated there that the manager has full autonomy over all footballing decisions - so no interference from upstairs. If the wrong players have been signed - in your opinion - I don't think that can be down to the board.

Most of the rest of your post was around the footballing side - so lets hope the new manager can get things moving in the right direction. We are changing the manager - which most of your points appear to be aimed at.


Do you honestly believe it was Calderwood who brought back Ivan Sproule?? ...I doubt it very much....was he consulted? Yes probably....but he's probably been told that this would make good business sense.......The fans hero would sell many an IS shirt.

I suppose we'll never know the truth, all I'm saying is that whoever or whatever the system is currently...change is needed.

[Littlest Hobo]

In what way? We just made a loss, turnover is falling, the crowds are plummeting, there is no strategy for attracting new customers (as opposed to getting old customers back), apathy amongst the customer base is at its highest point for years, there are grumbles about the way that just about every area of the club is run and, as usual, the only idea they have is 'if we get it right on the pitch everything else will sort itself out'.

I'll give you spending the spending of the vast profits from player sales on infrastructure and debt reduction but that wasn't exactly innovative, unless you are Hearts.

I've said this before but there is this perception that the executive team/Board's only job is to balance the books. As a result, they get an incredibly easy ride from the support.


We are living in bad times BEEFSTER....our club when compared to most is punching well above it's weight in my opinion and well placed "if" only we could get the right manager in who will identify the right players who will make it a pleasure for supporters to go along on a saturday afternoon again and actually enjoy their footballing experience. You say we have no strategy? Well what would you call East Mains then?

[StevieC]

I've said this before but there is this perception that the executive team/Board's only job is to balance the books. As a result, they get an incredibly easy ride from the support.

It's not just to balance the books, there is a whole array of tasks involved with running a football club, stadium and training centre that also need to be taken care of. The ultimate aim though is to have an excess of funds from all the business generated income (including gate money) that allows you to provide a manager with a player budget.

Unfortunately, contract length means that these figures are basically guessed for the coming couple of years so a drastic change in fortunes (and attendances) will result in these figures not matching and a loss being made.

On the back of this you can expect cut-backs in player budgets, it's just the economics of it.

Sadly though, it means that fans staying away means less money, lower wage budget, poorer quality of player, harder to get out of downturn in fortunes. Again, it's the simple economics of the situation.

To that end, I cant see how the current board are receiving as much flack as they are. They seem to have completed their tasks and provided the funds for the manager. If anything, the problem lies with the supporters that are no longer contributing to the income.

[tamig]

Do you honestly believe it was Calderwood who brought back Ivan Sproule?? ...I doubt it very much....was he consulted? Yes probably....but he's probably been told that this would make good business sense.......The fans hero would sell many an IS shirt.

I suppose we'll never know the truth, all I'm saying is that whoever or whatever the system is currently...change is needed.

Aye very good. So you're saying the board were lying at the AGM? If the manager makes the decisions that you say have failed then we are now in a position where the manager is changing. So how does changing the way the board operates come into that? Your post was a bit contradictory in places I have to say.

[Jack]

Do you honestly believe it was Calderwood who brought back Ivan Sproule?? ...I doubt it very much....was he consulted? Yes probably....but he's probably been told that this would make good business sense.......The fans hero would sell many an IS shirt.I suppose we'll never know the truth, all I'm saying is that whoever or whatever the system is currently...change is needed. We've been told, a few times now, that the manager identifies players AND positions that he wants filled and Scott Lindsay and his team go out and get them. Ivan would have been suggested to the manager and as far as I'm concerned the last word is with the manager, yes or no.

[Saorsa]

It's not just to balance the books, there is a whole array of tasks involved with running a football club, stadium and training centre that also need to be taken care of. The ultimate aim though is to have an excess of funds from all the business generated income (including gate money) that allows you to provide a manager with a player budget.

Unfortunately, contract length means that these figures are basically guessed for the coming couple of years so a drastic change in fortunes (and attendances) will result in these figures not matching and a loss being made.

On the back of this you can expect cut-backs in player budgets, it's just the economics of it.

Sadly though, it means that fans staying away means less money, lower wage budget, poorer quality of player, harder to get out of downturn in fortunes. Again, it's the simple economics of the situation.

To that end, I cant see how the current board are receiving as much flack as they are. They seem to have completed their tasks and provided the funds for the manager. If anything, the problem lies with the supporters that are no longer contributing to the income.Ah, the supporters again, wondered when they would get the blame, only a matter of time. The question is why have they stopped contributing? The answer is they have stopped contributing because they had enough of ***** they were being fed over all years when they were contributing. Why should they continue tae pay up hundreds of pounds every year for the amount of dross that has been put in front of them? The fans are not responsible for the dross on the park, those running the club are or are they only responsible for the good things? If Petrie & Co. can take the praise for all the good they have done off the park, they can bloody well take the blame for all the ***** that has happened on it as well.

[Davy Mac]

My only axe to grind and it's always been about Hibs is the lack of communication and apsirations.

The board never ever talk Hibs up - never.

We seem to just go about our business in a quiet conservative and prudent way and never talk or promote our amazing infrastructure achievements, but why don't we allow the fans in to watch them train, why is our club superstore shut on a Sunday when it's the only day a lot of us can shop, why don't we let the kids in for a fiver for every game so we don't lose a generation of fans.

Why does the board never talk with emotion and feelings rather than cold, corporate business puff speak when all we want to know is they care and are trying their damn hardest to lift the gloom over ER.

Yes, change is a must but for me it's not necessarily the board it's the attitude of the board.

Attitude comes from the top and I my opinion that's what needs to change.

[Beefster]

We are living in bad times BEEFSTER....our club when compared to most is punching well above it's weight in my opinion and well placed "if" only we could get the right manager in who will identify the right players who will make it a pleasure for supporters to go along on a saturday afternoon again and actually enjoy their footballing experience. You say we have no strategy? Well what would you call East Mains then?

No, we're not IMO. Our turnover is 4th largest in the country but we're the 4th largest club in the country. We're one point from bottom of the SPL - not punching above our weight. Crowds are falling probably more than anyone elses (%age wise). Our facilities are better than most clubs outside the OF - that's it (at the moment) as far as punching above our weight.


It's not just to balance the books, there is a whole array of tasks involved with running a football club, stadium and training centre that also need to be taken care of. The ultimate aim though is to have an excess of funds from all the business generated income (including gate money) that allows you to provide a manager with a player budget.

Unfortunately, contract length means that these figures are basically guessed for the coming couple of years so a drastic change in fortunes (and attendances) will result in these figures not matching and a loss being made.

On the back of this you can expect cut-backs in player budgets, it's just the economics of it.

Sadly though, it means that fans staying away means less money, lower wage budget, poorer quality of player, harder to get out of downturn in fortunes. Again, it's the simple economics of the situation.

To that end, I cant see how the current board are receiving as much flack as they are. They seem to have completed their tasks and provided the funds for the manager. If anything, the problem lies with the supporters that are no longer contributing to the income.

First bit in bold - they don't do enough to maximise income IMO. The more income we have, the likelier we are to have a decent team.

Second bit in bold - you're sort of proving my point about them getting an easy ride. Hibs are mainly responsible for their customer base shrinking and the lack of action to grow it. To blame the fans for not shelling out hundreds upon hundreds, irrespective of what they are offered for that money, is mental IMO.

[Kaiser1962]

No, we're not IMO. Our turnover is 4th largest in the country but we're the 4th largest club in the country.


Sorry to keep bringing this up but thats not strictly accurate. :greengrin

Although it depends on which criteria you use.

Over the last ten seasons Income is Aberdeen £77.6m, Hibs £74.8m; Wages- Aberdeen £50.6m, Hibs £43.9m.

Aberdeen do have over twice debt and have lost a lot more money than Hibs. They still have their stadium to build which will add to this.

Where we do have the edge (slightly) is in attendances where Hibs average gate over the period is 12,258 and Aberdeens is 11,949. Attendances overall for the ten seasons are Hibs 2,319,735 compared to Aberdeens 2,291,952. A very slight difference tipped in Hibs favour due to the fact that 29,900 more people paid to watch Hibs last season.

Honours are League Titles Aberdeen 4 (RU 13), Hibs 4 (RU 6); Scottish Cup Aberdeen 7 (RU 8), Hibs 2 (RU 9); League cup Aberdeen 5 (RU 7), Hibs 3 (RU 5). Aberdeen also have a Cup Winners Cup in their locker as well.

[Beefster]

Sorry to keep bringing this up but thats not strictly accurate. :greengrin

Although it depends on which criteria you use.

Over the last ten seasons Income is Aberdeen £77.6m, Hibs £74.8m; Wages- Aberdeen £50.6m, Hibs £43.9m.

Aberdeen do have over twice debt and have lost a lot more money than Hibs. They still have their stadium to build which will add to this.

Where we do have the edge (slightly) is in attendances where Hibs average gate over the period is 12,258 and Aberdeens is 11,949. Attendances overall for the ten seasons are Hibs 2,319,735 compared to Aberdeens 2,291,952. A very slight difference tipped in Hibs favour due to the fact that 29,900 more people paid to watch Hibs last season.

Honours are League Titles Aberdeen 4 (RU 13), Hibs 4 (RU 6); Scottish Cup Aberdeen 7 (RU 8), Hibs 2 (RU 9); League cup Aberdeen 5 (RU 7), Hibs 3 (RU 5). Aberdeen also have a Cup Winners Cup in their locker as well.

As you said, it depends on what period you look at! The point remains - there is no criteria in which the club is punching above their weight IMO.

[greenlex]

No, we're not IMO. Our turnover is 4th largest in the country but we're the 4th largest club in the country. We're one point from bottom of the SPL - not punching above our weight. Crowds are falling probably more than anyone elses (%age wise). Our facilities are better than most clubs outside the OF - that's it (at the moment) as far as punching above our weight.



First bit in bold - they don't do enough to maximise income IMO. The more income we have, the likelier we are to have a decent team.

Second bit in bold - you're sort of proving my point about them getting an easy ride. Hibs are mainly responsible for their customer base shrinking and the lack of action to grow it. To blame the fans for not shelling out hundreds upon hundreds, irrespective of what they are offered for that money, is mental IMO.
I agree we are not punching anywhere near above our weight.
I cannot disagree more about the rest of your post Beefster. What was building the new East Stand all about if it's not in perpetration for maximising income? You make it sound as though they are resting on the laurels sitting on ter hands and doing nothing. Do you know what sort of sponsorship and corporate deals are being worked on and secured in a climate that is the worst in living memory? I don't. Just ecause we don't hear doesn't mean they aren't doingb it.
They fall down with communication and fan interaction IMO but if they are to be believed they are trying to put tat right.

[Beefster]

I agree we are not punching anywhere near above our weight.
I cannot disagree more about the rest of your post Beefster. What was building the new East Stand all about if it's not in perpetration for maximising income? You make it sound as though they are resting on the laurels sitting on ter hands and doing nothing. Do you know what sort of sponsorship and corporate deals are being worked on and secured in a climate that is the worst in living memory? I don't. Just ecause we don't hear doesn't mean they aren't doingb it.
They fall down with communication and fan interaction IMO but if they are to be believed they are trying to put tat right.

They may well be trying to get corporate money in. In fact, they'd be negligent if they were not and obviously, we won't hear about those efforts until something is announced. However, corporate stuff is the easiest of all the problems to fix and requires the least amount of innovation, even under the present circumstances. It may mean less money though.

No visible attempts to improve the match-day experience.
No visible attempts to attract families or new supporters.
Very little visible attempts to seriously attract the lapsed supporter back.
Prices among the highest in the league.
Apathy as high than I can remember it.
Add in the problems that you acknowledge and there are lots more less important.

They may not be able to fix them all but there should, at least, be lots of things going on to try to. You can't fix all the problems that I've listed in the background.

[Kaiser1962]

As you said, it depends on what period you look at! The point remains - there is no criteria in which the club is punching above their weight IMO.


Historically Aberdeen have more major honours than us and more recent ones at that. Their purple patch in the eighties is very similar to ours in the late forties. Both sides are very similarly matched in all performance categories.

If you are taking the last two-three seasons in isolation then both clubs are underperforming.

Over the last 12, however, we are fourth in most football related categories but fifth in the commercial categories.

Depends what you're looking for as well I suppose.

[greenlex]

They may well be trying to get corporate money in. In fact, they'd be negligent if they were not and obviously, we won't hear about those efforts until something is announced. However, corporate stuff is the easiest of all the problems to fix and requires the least amount of innovation, even under the present circumstances. It may mean less money though.

No visible attempts to improve the match-day experience.
No visible attempts to attract families or new supporters.
Very little visible attempts to seriously attract the lapsed supporter back.
Prices among the highest in the league.
Apathy as high than I can remember it.
Add in the problems that you acknowledge and there are lots more less important.

They may not be able to fix them all but there should, at least, be lots of things going on to try to. You can't fix all the problems that I've listed in the background.
Match day experience - could do better:agree:
Families and lapsed support- Hibs kids day and bring a friend or whatever it was called.
Lapsed support- see above. Green day?
Prices- a necessary evil I'm afraid in an attempt to put a product on the park. Dropping prices may attract more fans but the overall benefit to the club is either nil or negligable as you don't take as much gate money overall.
Apathy- I'm afraid that's a fan thing. Get results and the apathy will evaporate in an instant. You can actually gauge it somewhat on here when we win. This place is a much better and positive place after a win. Imagine a we run of results.

There is no easy fix but a product on the park will make a huge difference. A change at board level will do little IMO other than appease a few anti Petrie diehards.

[Beefster]

Match day experience - could do better:agree:
Families and lapsed support- Hibs kids day and bring a friend or whatever it was called.
Lapsed support- see above. Green day?
Prices- a necessary evil I'm afraid in an attempt to put a product on the park. Dropping prices may attract more fans but the overall benefit to the club is either nil or negligable as you don't take as much gate money overall.
Apathy- I'm afraid that's a fan thing. Get results and the apathy will evaporate in an instant. You can actually gauge it somewhat on here when we win. This place is a much better and positive place after a win. Imagine a we run of results.

There is no easy fix but a product on the park will make a huge difference. A change at board level will do little IMO other than appease a few anti Petrie diehards.

I'm not really agitating for change in the Boardroom. I just want them to either change their thinking or get some people in with fresh ideas.

I know we've probably been back and forth over this countless times but to me, the 'experience' and attracting new families etc are inextricably linked. I'd like them to stop relying on those of us who do attend to get folk back too. Hibs need to directly reconnect with those who have stopped going. I have an ST and Green Day largely passed me by so I'm not sure that someone who doesn't go would have even heard of it!

Until football (although, I only care about Hibs) realise that the type of attractions that they are competing with have changed a lot over the last 10/15 years and requires them to offer more it'll continue to slowly die.

[StevieC]

Second bit in bold - you're sort of proving my point about them getting an easy ride. Hibs are mainly responsible for their customer base shrinking and the lack of action to grow it. To blame the fans for not shelling out hundreds upon hundreds, irrespective of what they are offered for that money, is mental IMO.

I don't think it's proving any point. It's simply pointing out that supporters that don't turn up will directly affect the player budget and the ability to improve the playing staff. It's purely economics, not an attempt to apportion blame.

You could have the best Board in the country, but if you don't have a winning team then there's the risk of supporters not turning up and income being affected. Likewise you could have the worst board in the league but a winning team on the park, and good attendances, would probably hide their inadequacies.

[bongo'd]

Ah, the supporters again, wondered when they would get the blame, only a matter of time. The question is why have they stopped contributing? The answer is they have stopped contributing because they had enough of ***** they were being fed over all years when they were contributing. Why should they continue tae pay up hundreds of pounds every year for the amount of dross that has been put in front of them? The fans are not responsible for the dross on the park, those running the club are or are they only responsible for the good things? If Petrie & Co. can take the praise for all the good they have done off the park, they can bloody well take the blame for all the ***** that has happened on it as well.

:agree:

[huggie1875]

i think the only thing i would say about the board is a lack of footballing background wouldnt mind a couple of football minds in there to help choose the next boss