John Collins (merged)

[Thief]

Interesting tweets from Patrick McPartlin, Scotsman regarding rumours in media circles that John Collins would be interested in return! I'd be very surprised but pleasantly so :-)

[Houchy]

Interesting tweets from Patrick McPartlin, Scotsman regarding rumours in media circles that John Collins would be interested in return! I'd be very surprised but pleasantly so :-)

Need a hell of a strong number 2. I have no doubts that his long term (footballing) plans were sound but was too easily chased out. He needs help identifying players too:agree:

[SteveHFC]

Please be true :thumbsup:

[Cocaine&Caviar]

It'd be the dream for me. Especially if with a director of football above him

[erin go bragh]

Interesting tweets from Patrick McPartlin, Scotsman regarding rumours in media circles that John Collins would be interested in return! I'd be very surprised but pleasantly so :-)

Yes , as it would show the board were prepared to back him this time , throw in a director of football to help with the signings and that would do for me .


ggtth

[surreyhibbie]

Would be very surprised indeed.

Could be interesting though...

[FitbaFolkKen]

Tommy Craig DoF?

[greenlex]

No chance. He walked away.

[Jonnyboy]

Tommy Craig DoF?

Only if DoF means Doddery old Fart :wink:

[FastEddieFelson]

No chance. He walked away.

don't think we're in any position to judge.

plus, he has to be the most attractive man who has ever lived.

[sixtwo]

Maybe his recent return to ER has made him realise that this is his home. Maybe he burried the hatchet with RP?

One note of caution though.......Yogi has recently been spoutin off about joining forces with his mate JC as a management duo. :devil:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Maybe his recent return to ER has made him realise that this is his home. Maybe he burried the hatchet with RP?

One note of caution though.......Yogi has recently been spoutin off about joining forces with his mate JC as a management duo. :devil:

"The ball is round, it was meant to roll"
"...........aye, yer right, circumference folk ken whit's gaun oan"

[Hal Jordan]

"The ball is round, it was meant to roll"
"...........aye, yer right, circumference folk ken whit's gaun oan"

:thumbsup::top marks

[Hibbyradge]

Not for me.

Anyway, it won't happen. He will neither want the job nor be offered it.

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Too good to be true. :no way:

[The Harp Awakes]

Would be a very emotional return for JC.

Would love to see him back. Maybe STF might even offer some investment in the squad at the same time:wink:

[Diclonius]

No thanks. People seem to forget how dire we were near the end of his tenure and that he was heading for the sack anyway.

[jdships]

No chance. He walked away.

Absolutely spot on :top marks
Thanks but no thanks :rolleyes:

[Green forever]

Can't see it happening tbh but I hope whoever gets the job has his philosophy on fitness, whatever his shortcomings were, we were one of the fittest teams if not the fittest in the SPL. In my opinion it was that level of fitness that got us through the League Cup semi against St Johnstone.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

No thanks. People seem to forget how dire we were near the end of his tenure and that he was heading for the sack anyway.

Absolutely, his signings were murder. Team wasn't that good either, he just got a good run in the cup and folk think he is the saviour!! JC is not what HIbs need. Would much rather JJ than JC if I was honest.

[Westie1875]

Please be true :thumbsup:


:agree: Would love him to come back, if he kept BB as no.2 I think that could be a very good partnership.

[AlbertK86]

Tommy Craig DoF?

I appreciate you are probably only jokin about Tommy Craig but on the subject of him.

As far as i'm concerned he was a problem that held JC back. He had too much influence on him IE AOB for one. Once he was interrim boss we were absolutely diabolical.


Think JC will have grown into his own man, would do things differently in the way he treated some of the players and still has the potential with his football brain and vast playing experience to be a superb manager.

Sadly I very much doubt either him or He Who Must Be Obeyed would be prepared to work with each other again.


Will keeping hoping however

[keep the faith]

I know he told someone at murrays testimonial celebration he would come back in a heart beat - if Things had changed.

Still think we should go for MON though.

[ScottB]

Sorry, but on the Calderwood thread, where people are saying he has no chance for his veiled comments about the Board in the media, why is this JC any different?

Sorry but, he may have won us a cup, but results were going South when he left and he signed some of the most over paid huddies we've had in recent times, and that's saying something. Sure, he had the player revolt, but that showed his lack of man management skills as much as it showed the players in a bad light. When things got tough instead of coming out fighting, he took his gagging clause and left.

More than anyone else he really seems to attract a lot of green tinted glasses! He's had his chance.

[DC_Hibs]

Not sure this would do much for our frailties in the centre of defence as Kevin McCann's no longer available to be moved in there.

He signed some p!sh as well........

[Hibbyradge]

Sorry, but on the Calderwood thread, were people are saying he has no chance for his veiled comments about the Board in the media, why is this JC any different?

Sorry but, he may have won us a cup, but results were going South when he left and he signed some of the most over paid huddies we've had in recent times, and that's saying something. Sure, he had the player revolt, but that showed his lack of man management skills as much as it showed the players in a bad light. When things got tough instead of coming out fighting, he took his gagging clause and left.

More than anyone else he really seems to attract a lot of green tinted glasses! He's had his chance.

I made that comment and I agree with you.

JC has no chance.

[James70]

Although JC has many great qualities I don't think he is cut out for the demanding role of manager.

Also his previous history as No.1 would be a lot of baggage to carry

He still has little managerial experience and is not the man to dig us out of the mess we are in.

[lucky]

Hope to god he is nowhere near Hibs again. Twice he has left us. He is only interested because no one else has gone near him since some no mark Belgium club. A big no from me

[Judas Iscariot]

Yes!!!

More Kerr's, AOB's, Maka's, MAC's, HKT's, Noubissie's, Morais' etc..

Wooopeeeeeee

[guillaume]

Absolutely, his signings were murder. Team wasn't that good either, he just got a good run in the cup and folk think he is the saviour!! JC is not what HIbs need. Would much rather JJ than JC if I was honest.

Can't believe any hibs fan is actually willing to put their name to that sentiment

[SteveHFC]

I don't know why people are not wanting him back. He led us to our first trophy in 16 years

[davym7062]

JC demanded the players worked as hard as him and what did the players do? run to mr petrie, i would have JC back in a heartbeat

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Bring back Benji :thumbsup:

[iwasthere1972]

I don't know why people are not wanting him back. He led us to our first trophy in 16 years

With Tony Mowbray's team. Getting that in first. :greengrin

[The Falcon]

don't think we're in any position to judge.

plus, he has to be the most attractive man who has ever lived.

Is that you John?

[givescotlandfreedom]

As Eddie Turbull said after Collins walked out we were too big a job for him.

[SteveHFC]

With Tony Mowbray's team. Getting that in first. :greengrin

Aye it was Mowbray's Team but it was Collins who coached them to win the cup.

[The Falcon]

As Eddie Turbull said after Collins walked out we were too big a job for him.



Who would get the blame when it went tits up again?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Hope to god he is nowhere near Hibs again. Twice he has left us. He is only interested because no one else has gone near him since some no mark Belgium club. A big no from me

Twice? Maybe you dont intend in the tone it comes across but when he went to Celtic it he had bided his time learnt his trade didn't do the dirty plus the club needed the money.
I could see how folks "thought" he left us in the lurch after EM opened or got going when the going got tough but think it's a bit harsh to seemingly judge his leaving in the same light as his move to Celtic

[iwasthere1972]

Aye it was Mowbray's Team but it was Collins who coached them to win the cup.

I could have coached them. In fact if we had that same team today CC would have cleaned up the Manager of the Month award for August, September and October. That's how good they were compared to what we have today.

No going back...............move on.

[matty_f]

Aye it was Mowbray's Team but it was Collins who coached them to win the cup.


Collins' tactics and preparation for that final were spot on. Absolutely perfect!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I could have coached them.

There's exaggeration for effect but really are you really suggesting JC didnt make a difference? Even if the raw materials were better he surely gave them the platform to perform ?

[keep the faith]

Sorry, but on the Calderwood thread, were people are saying he has no chance for his veiled comments about the Board in the media, why is this JC any different?

Sorry but, he may have won us a cup, but results were going South when he left and he signed some of the most over paid huddies we've had in recent times, and that's saying something. Sure, he had the player revolt, but that showed his lack of man management skills as much as it showed the players in a bad light. When things got tough instead of coming out fighting, he took his gagging clause and left.

More than anyone else he really seems to attract a lot of green tinted glasses! He's had his chance.

Would agree with this. My hero as a player and I like the idea of jc the manager but I remember how it went and I was glad when he left. To do it again is for me not the right move.

Mind you has anyone been more discussed on this board ever??

[ScottB]

Collins' tactics and preparation for that final were spot on. Absolutely perfect!

If we could do it all again, and paired him with either a DOF or a better, more experienced number 2 (such as BB even) then I'd be all for it, but I really don't think he can come back.

Secondly, like a Mowbray comeback, people would be daydreaming about the quality and play we had on show back then from a quality of player we will be luck to ever see again in the SPL, never mind at Hibs. There's too many questions, just one of which is what happens if come March he's signed more below average players and we are struggling for results. Would he stick it out? Once the initial honeymoon is over and the green tinted goggles are gone, would he have the capability to pull a squad of mostly average players and make them something better than they are?

[givescotlandfreedom]

Who would get the blame when it went tits up again?

Kerr, O'Brien, Morais?

[Hibbyradge]

Mind you has anyone been more discussed on this board ever??

Romanov.

[The Falcon]

If we could do it all again, and paired him with either a DOF or a better, more experienced number 2 (such as BB even) then I'd be all for it, but I really don't think he can come back.

Secondly, like a Mowbray comeback, people would be daydreaming about the quality and play we had on show back then from a quality of player we will be luck to ever see again in the SPL, never mind at Hibs. There's too many questions, just one of which is what happens if come March he's signed more below average players and we are struggling for results. Would he stick it out? Once the initial honeymoon is over and the green tinted goggles are gone, would he have the capability to pull a squad of mostly average players and make them something better than they are?

I like JC's ideas and all that but the biggest issue with JC was JC. There was no room for any other ego other than his and if he has not learned from that, and there is no evidence that he has, then its a no goer.

[ScottB]

Would agree with this. My hero as a player and I like the idea of jc the manager but I remember how it went and I was glad when he left. To do it again is for me not the right move.

Mind you has anyone been more discussed on this board ever??

I totally understand why, he's the great big what if of Hibs in recent years. If we take what seems to be the generally accepted story of the player revolt, wondering what would have happened if Collins had 'won' is something worth considering certainly, but he didn't. And if what happened was bad enough for him to quit, assuming that was his sole / main reason for bailing out, and has since made comments about the Board in the media suggesting he was less than happy with them, what has changed to make him want to come back? Or has he decided it doesn't matter, presumably because nobody else is lining up to offer him a job?

Frankly I'd be amazed if there was any truth in this.

[SteveHFC]

I could have coached them. In fact if we had that same team today CC would have cleaned up the Manager of the Month award for August, September and October. That's how good they were compared to what we have today.

No going back...............move on.

TM left on the 13 oct 2006
5 months later 18 march 2007 we won the cup playing the best football we had seen in ages,

so 5 months later the same players were still doing what TM told them 5 months before that i very much doubt, JC deserves the credit for that cup victory after all TM won nothing with same players

[iwasthere1972]

Mind you has anyone been more discussed on this board ever??

Blackpoolhibs.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Romanov.
Deeks

[calumb]

Does he still live in the Edinburgh area? If so surely the club should be utilizing someone of his knowledge in some sort of capacity, even if its just to walk about the dressing room showing off his six pack to our shower of drunks

[iwasthere1972]

TM left on the 13 oct 2006
5 months later 18 march 2007 we won the cup playing the best football we had seen in ages,

so 5 months later the same players were still doing what TM told them 5 months before that i very much doubt, JC deserves the credit for that cup victory after all TM won nothing with same players

You may be right but the point I am making is that the group of players we had back then were capable of winning games and compared to now were a joy to watch. Turnbull's Tornadoes they weren't but they were a hundred times better than the team we have today. JC would have to be the real JC to get us to another cup final with this lot.

He'd still be better than Calderwood or Jeffries. :aok:

[hibee-shtuggie]

Those who say that JC walked our are jumping to conclusions. all problems at hibs go back to when petrie backed the squad over his regime. Hibs were the fittest team in the league under collins, and under a good director of football he would bring glory to Easter Road once more.

[SteveHFC]

You may be right but the point I am making is that the group of players we had back then were capable of winning games and compared to now were a joy to watch. Turnbull's Tornadoes they weren't but they were a hundred times better than the team we have today. JC would have to be the real JC to get us to another cup final with this lot.

He'd still be better than Calderwood or Jeffries. :aok:

True :agree:

[iwasthere1972]

Does he still live in the Edinburgh area? If so surely the club should be utilizing someone of his knowledge in some sort of capacity, even if its just to walk about the dressing room showing off his six pack to our shower of drunks

Thought he lived in Galashiels.

[hibee-shtuggie]

Thought he lived in Galashiels.

he lives in Aberlady in East Lothian

[NOLA]

people forget he walked out on us when the job started getting too difficult, always be a club Hero but he's had his chance.

[The Falcon]

Those who say that JC walked our are jumping to conclusions. all problems at hibs go back to when petrie backed the squad over his regime. Hibs were the fittest team in the league under collins, and under a good director of football he would bring glory to Easter Road once more.

How did he do that?

[hibee-shtuggie]

How did he do that?

they went running when the training got too hard. Collins was arrogant but his training worked.

[lyonhibs]

In. a. heartbeat.

Won't happen though.

[West Upper]

No thanks. People seem to forget how dire we were near the end of his tenure and that he was heading for the sack anyway.

:top marks

[calumb]

Thought he lived in Galashiels.

Well then the club should try and get him to come and do some work at the club even if it was just with the u-19's. what better role model could the young players at the club have than him? Instead they have the bevvy merchants, gamblers and street fighters to look up to.

[PISTOL1875]

he lives in Aberlady in East Lothian

You should see his house..

[Winston Ingram]

Interesting tweets from Patrick McPartlin, Scotsman regarding rumours in media circles that John Collins would be interested in return! I'd be very surprised but pleasantly so :-)

**** that!!!

[frazeHFC]

No thanks.

[At The Edge]

As with Tango, no thanks JC, you've had your shot,

[IWasThere2016]

Nae chance.

[Dalianwanda]

It was one of my favorite moments as a fan to see JC at his first game at Easter Road as manager.....But for a lot of the reasons stated already I would not want him back in charge...Still one of my all time favorite players though

[iwasthere1972]

**** that!!!

Is that your final answer?

[andrew70]

Would people be happy with a management team of:

Director of Football: Jim Jefferies
Manager: John Collins
Assistant: Billy Brown

With the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.
FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!

[Jones28]

No chance. He walked away.

IMO his position was virtually un-tenable after the players and the board both showing he wasn't fully backed by either of them. Them him being told there was no money that January was the final nail.

[Riordans Boots]

don't think we're in any position to judge.

plus, he has to be the most attractive man who has ever lived.


He is :agree: :top marks

Oh! and DoF? Do ya fancy ... that's a Y E S from me :agree: :not worth

[.Sean.]

he lives in Aberlady in East Lothian
:agree: HUGE house by the golf course.

[frazeHFC]

Would people be happy with a management team of:

Director of Football: Jim Jefferies
Manager: John Collins
Assistant: Billy Brown

With the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.
FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!

That's a horrible line up in my opinion.......

[IberianHibernian]

In some countries it`s quite common for managers to manage same team 2 or 3 times during their careers even after being sacked . In Scotland it`d still be considered unusual ( JJ at Hearts and Jocky Scott at Dundee were exceptions ) . Would like to see JC back at Hibs in some capacity but don`t think there`s any chance of him being back as manager now ( maybe in a few years`time after aother changes at club ) .

[The_Horde]

Think this would be the perfect time for JC to take over. It would be an especially big statement by the board and they would have to back him. It won't happen though, sadly.

[Mark79]

Is this April 1st???? We just got rid of one clown.

[Hibbyradge]

Would people be happy with a management team of:

Director of Football: Jim Jefferies
Manager: John Collins
Assistant: Billy Brown

With the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.
FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!

:faf:

No to all of that.

[Allant1981]

:agree: HUGE house by the golf course. also has a house at gleneagles

[jacomo]

:agree: Would love him to come back, if he kept BB as no.2 I think that could be a very good partnership.

:agree:

But they'd need another coach who could be the players' pal, too. Ian Murray?

[spike220]

I would love to see him back, I sure I had a thread on the go about this man a wee while ago.

GGTTH

[Cropley10]

Yes!!!

More Kerr's, AOB's, Maka's, MAC's, HKT's, Noubissie's, Morais' etc..

Wooopeeeeeee

No better or worse than the current incumbents.

[Cropley10]

I like JC's ideas and all that but the biggest issue with JC was JC. There was no room for any other ego other than his and if he has not learned from that, and there is no evidence that he has, then its a no goer.

So there's 'no evidence' he's learned. I hadn't realised such close tabs were being kept.

[Peevemor]

people forget he walked out on us when the job started getting too difficult, always be a club Hero but he's had his chance.

:agree: Who's to say that he wouldn't shoot the crow again as soon as we hit a wee rough patch?

In any case, I doubt very much he's being considered (or would want to be for that matter).

[Cropley10]

Would people be happy with a management team of:

Director of Football: Jim Jefferies
Manager: John Collins
Assistant: Billy Brown

With the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.
FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!

I don't went FJK anywhere near ER. :aok:

[Peevemor]

So there's 'no evidence' he's learned. I hadn't realised such close tabs were being kept.

I try to read all the stuff he says about his time at ER (if published on the interweb). I can't remember him admitting that he might have made a tiny wee mistake or two along the way.

[The Falcon]

So there's 'no evidence' he's learned. I hadn't realised such close tabs were being kept.

Is there evidence that he has?

You could say Mixu left Hibs and, by his own admission, reflected on the experience. He says he spent a year traveling and looking at other set ups and, more importantly, looking at what he could do better. Came back to manage Killie and did did well.

While I think Collins has great ideas and huge potential but there is nothing to suggest that he even considers that he may have got some things wrong.

I have far more admiration for Mixu than I have for the likes of Collins or Yogi who just seem to whine about how its not their fault.

Which is sad in Collin's case because, outside football, he is a genuinely nice man.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Would people be happy with a management team of:

Director of Football: Jim Jefferies
Manager: John Collins
Assistant: Billy Brown

With the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.
FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!

How about

Director of Football: Franck Sauzee
Manager: Michael O'Neil
Assistant: John Collins

[Cropley10]

Is there evidence that he has?

You could say Mixu left Hibs and, by his own admission, reflected on the experience. He says he spent a year traveling and looking at other set ups and, more importantly, looking at what he could do better. Came back to manage Killie and did did well.

While I think Collins has great ideas and huge potential but there is nothing to suggest that he even considers that he may have got some things wrong.

I have far more admiration for Mixu than I have for the likes of Collins or Yogi who just seem to whine about how its not their fault.

Which is sad in Collin's case because, outside football, he is a genuinely nice man.

You said there's no evidence that he has. Which, frankly, is an extraordinary remark to make about someone you don't know.

Perhaps he's still very aggrieved at what happened at Hibs and what forced him to walk away. Of course it can't have been easy to deal with a large delegation of moaning players being entertained by the Chairman. Nor the cringeworthy, hollow, shallow so-called 'apology' by Jones after either.

Everyone learns by their mistakes. To suggest JC hasn't is just making things up.

[hibiedude]

With some of the ex players returning to the club why not? JC would be a great choice

[The Falcon]

You said there's no evidence that he has. Which, frankly, is an extraordinary remark to make about someone you don't know.

Perhaps he's still very aggrieved at what happened at Hibs and what forced him to walk away. Of course it can't have been easy to deal with a large delegation of moaning players being entertained by the Chairman. Nor the cringeworthy, hollow, shallow so-called 'apology' by Jones after either.

Everyone learns by their mistakes. To suggest JC hasn't is just making things up.

I never said he hadn't, I said there was no evidence that he had. Had Collins been in a job for any length of time then we would at least have more information with which to make an informed choice. We dont have that. If we were to appoint Collins to the job and history was to repeat itself who would get the blame?

The remark about Jones apology is merely your opinion, which I dont share.

[frazeHFC]

No better or worse than the current incumbents. :tee hee:None of them would be anywhere near our current team.

[offshorehibby]

I honestly can't see it. Collins is still one of my all time greats and deep down i think he still holds a soft spot for Hibs. We were one of the fittest teams around when he was there but in the end some of the football wasn't that good. some of his signings were terrible as well.
If i was taking an ex manager back it would be Mixu, he left Hibs spent a year getting his act together and re invented himself at Killie.

With names on offer it's MON for me.

[soupy]

Would people be happy with a management team of:Director of Football: Jim JefferiesManager: John CollinsAssistant: Billy BrownWith the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!That doesny look to bad an idea, quite like that one actually :-)

[Saorsa]

Would people be happy with a management team of:

Director of Football: Jim Jefferies
Manager: John Collins
Assistant: Billy Brown

With the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.
FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!**** that fat h****s ****

[happiehibbie]

Can't believe any hibs fan is actually willing to put their name to that sentiment

I would go along with JJ than JC

[Cropley10]

:tee hee:None of them would be anywhere near our current team.

Really? Don't remember JC's team bumping along at the bottom of the League. But I do remember them beating Celtc at home AND winning the odd Derby :devil:

[soproni1]

:agree: Would love him to come back, if he kept BB as no.2 I think that could be a very good partnership.

Not sure we could get any better than that

[soproni1]

I honestly can't see it. Collins is still one of my all time greats and deep down i think he still holds a soft spot for Hibs. We were one of the fittest teams around when he was there but in the end some of the football wasn't that good. some of his signings were terrible as well.
If i was taking an ex manager back it would be Mixu, he left Hibs spent a year getting his act together and re invented himself at Killie.

With names on offer it's MON for me.

I thought the football we tried to play was great - we just lost a lot of important players - Whittaker, Brown, Sproule and Killen (he may have been injured) - Boozy, Zemmama and Benji were always hurt/out of form. The players we replaced them with - Kerr, Gatheussi, McCann, Donaldson, Morais were not as good to say the least. Think that is where the main problems lay.

JC always went on about our 'pressing game' - assuming this was something in the mould of the almighty Barcelona - winning the ball high up the pitch so that our dangerous players have the ball in the optimum attacking positions (not that we mirrored it many times), but have a look at the lineups from JC's last few games (the ICT away game especially - imagine that lot playing under CC), I think our squad right now is far better on paper and would suit playing a more expansive style which, out of all the candidates mentioned JC would be the best equipped to provide - just get someone else to sign the players!!

[Stevie Reid]

Really? Don't remember JC's team bumping along at the bottom of the League. But I do remember them beating Celtc at home AND winning the odd Derby :devil:

:agree:

Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead).

Let's have a little perspective here - when JC resigned, our league record was: -

P 17 W 7 D 6 L 4

27 points from 17 games - 1.6 points per game, enough to secure us 60 points over the course of the season (Motherwell finished 3rd on 60 points). People will rightly point out that we had won only one out of his last 8 in charge (W 1 D 3 L 4) but 3 of those defeats were away to Motherwell, Aberdeen and ICT respectively - only the home defeat to St. Mirren could truly be considered a very bad result.

It's also worth bearing in mind that for 3 of the 6 draws we had had up to JC's departure, we came from 2 goals down (we also came back from 2 goals down to win against Gretna), meaning that we secured 6 points from losing positions in those four games - when have we been as resilient as that since? Yes, we were on a bad run when JC left, but to imply that we were only going one way is pure conjecture. The upturn in form when Mixu took over (the best spell of his time at Hibs, largely with JC's team, obviously) came from 6 wins from 7 games, where the fixtures were home games Gretna, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell and Killie, with an away game at Falkirk too - I would have fancied JC to have got us results in those games too.

I appreciate that that is also conjecture on my part, but there is more evidence to suggest that JC's side were having a bad spell (which Hibs team doesn't?), rather than us being headed towards the bottom of the league. Colllins had 7 wins out of 17 games - we won another 7 out of the remaining 21 games that season, so Collins' time was easily the best. The fact that Mixu had us in the top 6 weeks before the split, owed a lot to the great early form of JC's Hibs team.

I would like to make it clear that I thought Collins' reasons for walking away from Hibs were nonsense, there's no way that the targets that he was after would have been realistic for us - I also remember the dodgy signings and the incidents like playing McCann at centre half at Pittodrie - however, Collins deserves a lot better than many on here are giving him. Given how much time some were prepared to give Calderwood's team to gel and come good, it's incredible that people can state with such certainty that JC's 2007-08 team were just a flash in the pan being found out, as opposed to a decent team going through a sticky patch.

We will never know one way or the other now - but there's no way that Collins left us in as bad a way as many on here are stating. An overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 and a 5-1 national cup final win means he should ALWAYS be highly regarded, and well remembered.

[ScottB]

:agree:

Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead).

Let's have a little perspective here - when JC resigned, our league record was: -

P 17 W 7 D 6 L 4

27 points from 17 games - 1.6 points per game, enough to secure us 60 points over the course of the season (Motherwell finished 3rd on 60 points). People will rightly point out that we had won only one out of his last 8 in charge (W 1 D 3 L 4) but 3 of those defeats were away to Motherwell, Aberdeen and ICT respectively - only the home defeat to St. Mirren could truly be considered a very bad result.

It's also worth bearing in mind that for 3 of the 6 draws we had had up to JC's departure, we came from 2 goals down (we also came back from 2 goals down to win against Gretna), meaning that we secured 6 points from losing positions in those four games - when have we been as resilient as that since? Yes, we were on a bad run when JC left, but to imply that we were only going one way is pure conjecture. The upturn in form when Mixu took over (the best spell of his time at Hibs, largely with JC's team, obviously) came from 6 wins from 7 games, where the fixtures were home games Gretna, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell and Killie, with an away game at Falkirk too - I would have fancied JC to have got us results in those games too.

I appreciate that that is also conjecture on my part, but there is more evidence to suggest that JC's side were having a bad spell (which Hibs team doesn't?), rather than us being headed towards the bottom of the league. Colllins had 7 wins out of 17 games - we won another 7 out of the remaining 21 games that season, so Collins' time was easily the best. The fact that Mixu had us in the top 6 weeks before the split, owed a lot to the great early form of JC's Hibs team.

I would like to make it clear that I thought Collins' reasons for walking away from Hibs were nonsense, there's no way that the targets that he were after would have been realistic for us - I also remember the dodgy signings and the incidents like playing McCann at centre half at Pittodrie - however, Collins deserves a lot better than many on here are giving him. Given how much time some were prepared to give Calderwood's team to gel and come good, it's incredible that people can state with such certainty that JC's 2007-08 team were just a flash in the pan being found out, as opposed to a decent team going through a sticky patch.

We will never know one way or the other now - but there's no way that Collins left us in as bad a way as many on here are stating. An overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 and a 5-1 national cup final win means he should ALWAYS be highly regarded, and well remembered.

Have to agree, though I think a lot of the ill feeling stems from just that, he bailed on us and what could have been a very bright future. The Board, and Petrie in particular still suffer from that period today, so it's not surprising that JC himself does too in the eyes of some of us.

[Stevie Reid]

Have to agree, though I think a lot of the ill feeling stems from just that, he bailed on us and what could have been a very bright future. The Board, and Petrie in particular still suffer from that period today, so it's not surprising that JC himself does too in the eyes of some of us.

I can understand why people might be upset with how and why he left, but there's absolutely no need for his time as manager to be adversely assessed because of that. He certainly wasn't anywhere near a failure, as many do claim.

PS - just had a wee look and in 2007-08 we scored first in 21 out of our 38 league games.

[Part/Time Supporter]

:agree:

Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead).



Maybe he would have learned his trade if he hadn't flounced out after 15 minutes. I think you have to question how committed he was to being a successful manager. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that has changed.

[Stevie Reid]

Maybe he would have learned his trade if he hadn't flounced out after 15 minutes. I think you have to question how committed he was to being a successful manager. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that has changed.

As I stated before, I can completely understand people having major problems with his departure, and the manner of it (I do too) - but all that went before should not be tainted by it.

[MrSmith]

I'd love to see him return!

JC Manager
BB Assistant
And; a DOF or head scout/talent/development officer of sorts to identify players.

[poolman]

Would people be happy with a management team of:

Director of Football: Jim Jefferies
Manager: John Collins
Assistant: Billy Brown

With the club getting rid of Gareth Evans and unfortunately Alistair Stevenson.
FWIW this is the only way I'd accept Jumbo Jim anywhere near ER in a management capacity!


Pharmaceutical alert :greengrin

[calumb]

Maybe he would have learned his trade if he hadn't flounced out after 15 minutes. I think you have to question how committed he was to being a successful manager. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that has changed.

Maybe he has done a mixu and by having had time to reflect he will be able to deal with the situation again.

[Dashing Bob S]

If he gets rid of Ivan S and brings back the motorized version that is Alan O'B, and Brian Kerr from their current all-conquering activities, I might be persuaded.

[Mon Dieu4]

Id rather see him back as a player, even now he would be our best midfielder in the current crop!!

[clerriehibs]

Never mind John Collins, bring back John Park

[nortonhibby]

Interesting tweets from Patrick McPartlin, Scotsman regarding rumours in media circles that John Collins would be interested in return! I'd be very surprised but pleasantly so :-)

need RP To say ta ta before JC Would come back.

[HFC 0-7]

Think JC is getting a very hard time of it IMO. He made mistakes, the major one walking out, however as a first manager post he had a lot to deal with. He one us the cup and had us playing well not to mention the amount of players that were sold. Putting it into perspective, the SPL has been going for about 13 seasons, hibs being in it for 12. We have had 8 managers in the time and I think we would all agree the best were Mowbray and McLeish. Putting them together in terms of stats Mowbray leads the way in terms of % of games one at 48%, followed by McLeish at 47% then Collins at 43% then thats followed by Williamson at at 37%. The stat that is also interesting and quite important IMO is that we scored points in 70% of games, more than any other manager for Hibs apart from Mcleish and Mcleish has a season in the first division.

Since JC left we have had to watch hibs each season losing on average 45% of games and winning only 31%

JC had us losing only 30% of games and winning 43%

Mowbray lost 37% of games and winning 48%

With that in mind would you not like to go back to those sort of stats per season, oh and he one a cup nothing ANY other hibs manager has done since the SPL was formed! Are we being more critical of Collins because he left us with a great record? When we dont really have a bad word to say about Sauzee when his record was terrible.

[Saorsa]

need RP To say ta ta before JC Would come back.There's something wrong with your post :agree:







































































you for got this :taxi :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

:agree:

Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead).

Let's have a little perspective here - when JC resigned, our league record was: -

P 17 W 7 D 6 L 4

27 points from 17 games - 1.6 points per game, enough to secure us 60 points over the course of the season (Motherwell finished 3rd on 60 points). People will rightly point out that we had won only one out of his last 8 in charge (W 1 D 3 L 4) but 3 of those defeats were away to Motherwell, Aberdeen and ICT respectively - only the home defeat to St. Mirren could truly be considered a very bad result.

It's also worth bearing in mind that for 3 of the 6 draws we had had up to JC's departure, we came from 2 goals down (we also came back from 2 goals down to win against Gretna), meaning that we secured 6 points from losing positions in those four games - when have we been as resilient as that since? Yes, we were on a bad run when JC left, but to imply that we were only going one way is pure conjecture. The upturn in form when Mixu took over (the best spell of his time at Hibs, largely with JC's team, obviously) came from 6 wins from 7 games, where the fixtures were home games Gretna, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell and Killie, with an away game at Falkirk too - I would have fancied JC to have got us results in those games too.

I appreciate that that is also conjecture on my part, but there is more evidence to suggest that JC's side were having a bad spell (which Hibs team doesn't?), rather than us being headed towards the bottom of the league. Colllins had 7 wins out of 17 games - we won another 7 out of the remaining 21 games that season, so Collins' time was easily the best. The fact that Mixu had us in the top 6 weeks before the split, owed a lot to the great early form of JC's Hibs team.

I would like to make it clear that I thought Collins' reasons for walking away from Hibs were nonsense, there's no way that the targets that he was after would have been realistic for us - I also remember the dodgy signings and the incidents like playing McCann at centre half at Pittodrie - however, Collins deserves a lot better than many on here are giving him. Given how much time some were prepared to give Calderwood's team to gel and come good, it's incredible that people can state with such certainty that JC's 2007-08 team were just a flash in the pan being found out, as opposed to a decent team going through a sticky patch.

We will never know one way or the other now - but there's no way that Collins left us in as bad a way as many on here are stating. An overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 and a 5-1 national cup final win means he should ALWAYS be highly regarded, and well remembered.

:top marks: :agree: :agree:

[StevieC]

Maybe he would have learned his trade if he hadn't flounced out after 15 minutes.

The one thing that I will always respect JC for is the fact that he walked.

No hanging about waiting to get fired, no big compensation pay-off. He put the issues on the line, they weren't dealt with they way he wanted, so he just walked.

[nortonhibby]

[QUOTE=Desperate Dan;2982852]There's something wrong with your post :agree:
nope i never think RP Think how hw would think if caned, hmmm taxi thats pricey yes the bus its the cheaper option.
can anyone do a wee picture oh the bus then ill post it for RP:devil: IF its the cheap option ITS RP:confused:

[Baldy Foghorn]

The one thing that I will always respect JC for is the fact that he walked.

No hanging about waiting to get fired, no big compensation pay-off. He put the issues on the line, they weren't dealt with they way he wanted, so he just walked.

:agree::agree:

He knew his own mind, and made his choice, strong character......

Much better than guys like CC, hanging around and doing further damage

[ScottB]

Think JC is getting a very hard time of it IMO. He made mistakes, the major one walking out, however as a first manager post he had a lot to deal with. He one us the cup and had us playing well not to mention the amount of players that were sold. Putting it into perspective, the SPL has been going for about 13 seasons, hibs being in it for 12. We have had 8 managers in the time and I think we would all agree the best were Mowbray and McLeish. Putting them together in terms of stats Mowbray leads the way in terms of % of games one at 48%, followed by McLeish at 47% then Collins at 43% then thats followed by Williamson at at 37%. The stat that is also interesting and quite important IMO is that we scored points in 70% of games, more than any other manager for Hibs apart from Mcleish and Mcleish has a season in the first division.

Since JC left we have had to watch hibs each season losing on average 45% of games and winning only 31%

JC had us losing only 30% of games and winning 43%

Mowbray lost 37% of games and winning 48%

With that in mind would you not like to go back to those sort of stats per season, oh and he one a cup nothing ANY other hibs manager has done since the SPL was formed! Are we being more critical of Collins because he left us with a great record? When we dont really have a bad word to say about Sauzee when his record was terrible.

The quality of squad Mowbray and Collins had is a fairly big factor too though, it's not like sticking either of them back in is an instant return to winning more, not unless another Golden Generation pops out of East Mains too!

[Kaiser1962]

The one thing that I will always respect JC for is the fact that he walked.

No hanging about waiting to get fired, no big compensation pay-off. He put the issues on the line, they weren't dealt with they way he wanted, so he just walked.

I liked JC but things would be even tighter this time around. What makes folk think he could cope now if he couldnt then?

[ballengeich]

Anyone who seriously wanted a management career would have spent more than 6 months in management in the past 4 years. You learn any job by making mistakes and working your way out of the consequences. You don't do that by leaving jobs as soon as things are going badly, so we can't have confidence that his man-management and transfer market skills are any better now than they were when he left.

I think Collins has some attributes which could make him a good manager, but I don't think he's really interested in learning how to get the best out of players who aren't as talented as him.

[Just Alf]

:agree::agree:

He knew his own mind, and made his choice, strong character......

Much better than guys like CC, hanging around and doing further damage

This :thumbsup:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

:agree::agree:

He knew his own mind, and made his choice, strong character......

Much better than guys like CC, hanging around and doing further damage

:agree:

[HFC 0-7]

The quality of squad Mowbray and Collins had is a fairly big factor too though, it's not like sticking either of them back in is an instant return to winning more, not unless another Golden Generation pops out of East Mains too!

To my memory Hibs lost a good few players like Brown, Thomson, Whittaker and Killen between season 06/07 and 07/08 so the golden generation as you put it were definately starting to exit. JC managed hibs for 19 games in 07/08, after the players left and after he brought in all the bad players that everyone keeps moaning about, but still managed to have a record of W42% D31% L26%. These 19 games with the good players gone and the bad ones in also saw us beat the likes of Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. So according to most on here JC couldnt sign a decent player but going by the stats he certainly got the best out of them. These stats for the 19 games prior to leaving are on par with Mowbray and McLeishs full career at hibs.

Think some fans had a distorted view of JC. Whether its because he left and people dont want to acknowledge he had a great record managing hibs even with players exiting or its because we tasted success with the way in which we one the cup and expected it every week. Maybe he got criticised too much for the players he signed because they were not of the same calibre as the ones that had left, either way he still managed to get enough out of him that kept his Win rate above the 40's and the lose rate lower than any hibs manager since the SPl began.

[AlbertK86]

:agree: Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead). Let's have a little perspective here - when JC resigned, our league record was: - P 17 W 7 D 6 L 4 27 points from 17 games - 1.6 points per game, enough to secure us 60 points over the course of the season (Motherwell finished 3rd on 60 points). People will rightly point out that we had won only one out of his last 8 in charge (W 1 D 3 L 4) but 3 of those defeats were away to Motherwell, Aberdeen and ICT respectively - only the home defeat to St. Mirren could truly be considered a very bad result. It's also worth bearing in mind that for 3 of the 6 draws we had had up to JC's departure, we came from 2 goals down (we also came back from 2 goals down to win against Gretna), meaning that we secured 6 points from losing positions in those four games - when have we been as resilient as that since? Yes, we were on a bad run when JC left, but to imply that we were only going one way is pure conjecture. The upturn in form when Mixu took over (the best spell of his time at Hibs, largely with JC's team, obviously) came from 6 wins from 7 games, where the fixtures were home games Gretna, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell and Killie, with an away game at Falkirk too - I would have fancied JC to have got us results in those games too. I appreciate that that is also conjecture on my part, but there is more evidence to suggest that JC's side were having a bad spell (which Hibs team doesn't?), rather than us being headed towards the bottom of the league. Colllins had 7 wins out of 17 games - we won another 7 out of the remaining 21 games that season, so Collins' time was easily the best. The fact that Mixu had us in the top 6 weeks before the split, owed a lot to the great early form of JC's Hibs team. I would like to make it clear that I thought Collins' reasons for walking away from Hibs were nonsense, there's no way that the targets that he was after would have been realistic for us - I also remember the dodgy signings and the incidents like playing McCann at centre half at Pittodrie - however, Collins deserves a lot better than many on here are giving him. Given how much time some were prepared to give Calderwood's team to gel and come good, it's incredible that people can state with such certainty that JC's 2007-08 team were just a flash in the pan being found out, as opposed to a decent team going through a sticky patch. We will never know one way or the other now - but there's no way that Collins left us in as bad a way as many on here are stating. An overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 and a 5-1 national cup final win means he should ALWAYS be highly regarded, and well remembered. Excellent post. I actually respected him standing up for himself against a board who went back on their word. Would love to see him back

[StevieC]

I liked JC but things would be even tighter this time around. What makes folk think he could cope now if he couldnt then?

I suppose the big question is whether he walked because he couldn't cope or whether he walked as a matter of principal.

[StokePogesHibs]

JC demonstrated passion tactics and high standards. He was unlucky that there was a golden generation with their eye on their next move.....many of whom could never lace his training boots. Only Fletch has hit the heights and he was loyal.

He led us to a trophy and but for the mutiny in dunfy would have delivered another.

I'd love to see him back with a couple of auld heids. Billy B as assistant and a DOF who can manage the politics but be a better player picker than the Chairman.

Bring Back Collins

[Kaiser1962]

I suppose the big question is whether he walked because he couldn't cope or whether he walked as a matter of principal.


Very true. Or perhaps he walked for some other reason? Was he not favourite for the Scotland job at the time?

I recall at the time he cited frustration at lack of transfer funds and I doubt that will have changed, at all SPL clubs, but I think all managers could say that and probably be right. If it was as a point of principle there was nothing to stop him clearly stating this. Given Jimmy Calderwoods comments the other week when commenting on things at ER, with Collins beside him, I am surprised that Tango man is now waxing lyrical about ER and looking for the job. Makes no sense.

That Collins has not really worked properly as a coach again (other than a short spell in Belgium) is disappointing as I do he believe he has ability, so a lot of questions about him remain unanswered. Which is a great pity.

[LancsHibs]

Very true. Or perhaps he walked for some other reason? Was he not favourite for the Scotland job at the time?

I recall at the time he cited frustration at lack of transfer funds and I doubt that will have changed, at all SPL clubs, but I think all managers could say that and probably be right. If it was as a point of principle there was nothing to stop him clearly stating this. Given Jimmy Calderwoods comments the other week when commenting on things at ER, with Collins beside him, I am surprised that Tango man is now waxing lyrical about ER and looking for the job. Makes no sense.

That Collins has not really worked properly as a coach again (other than a short spell in Belgium) is disappointing as I do he believe he has ability, so a lot of questions about him remain unanswered. Which is a great pity.

He was also favourite for the vacant Fulham job immediately after walking out on Hibs.......
Which again he never got!!
Would love to see him back though, was gutted when he left! It's been down hill ever since

[s.a.m]

Anyone who seriously wanted a management career would have spent more than 6 months in management in the past 4 years. You learn any job by making mistakes and working your way out of the consequences. You don't do that by leaving jobs as soon as things are going badly, so we can't have confidence that his man-management and transfer market skills are any better now than they were when he left.

I think Collins has some attributes which could make him a good manager, but I don't think he's really interested in learning how to get the best out of players who aren't as talented as him.


Very true. Or perhaps he walked for some other reason? Was he not favourite for the Scotland job at the time?

I recall at the time he cited frustration at lack of transfer funds and I doubt that will have changed, at all SPL clubs, but I think all managers could say that and probably be right. If it was as a point of principle there was nothing to stop him clearly stating this. Given Jimmy Calderwoods comments the other week when commenting on things at ER, with Collins beside him, I am surprised that Tango man is now waxing lyrical about ER and looking for the job. Makes no sense.

That Collins has not really worked properly as a coach again (other than a short spell in Belgium) is disappointing as I do he believe he has ability, so a lot of questions about him remain unanswered. Which is a great pity.

I agree with you both. I think that JC had a lot of potential, and I would have loved to have seen him learning his trade with us (preferably as an assistant, before moving into the management role though.). However, whatever his thoughts are on the matter, one thing we can safely say is that he hasn't demonstrated any particular desire to be a football manager, Director of Football, coach etc...or he would be doing it.

[Speedway]

I don't know why people are not wanting him back. He led us to our first trophy in 16 years

In that case, let's get Miller back.

We saw what happened when he was allowed to buy/build his own side. Spewed a lot of money on Makapaka and AO'B and because he couldn't manage a playing budget, signed even worse dross after that and used the justification for bringing in Kerr as 'if he's good enough for Tommy, he's good enough for me' WHAT?! When was being good enough for Tommy Craig any measure of a player?

After that, he was reduced to whinging when we wouldn't buy Robson, Naismith and Gow told us where to go.

The only time I'll agree with Michael Stewart - NEVER a manager.

Then he walked out on the club within 24 hours of opening the training centre.

Big no thank you from me.

[Stevie Reid]

He was also favourite for the vacant Fulham job immediately after walking out on Hibs.......
Which again he never got!!
Would love to see him back though, was gutted when he left! It's been down hill ever since

He also applied for the position of West Ham manager and lost out to Zola, but impressed their board: -


Former Scotland midfielder John Collins was interviewed on Friday but, despite making a good impression, appears to have been ruled out.

"John Collins is very strong and will be an excellent manager in due course. He truly impressed but is maybe not quite right at the moment," Lee told Radio 5 Live's Sportsweek.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/7598744.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/7598744.stm)

[johnrebus]

Does anyone seriously think that John Collins would come back to Easter Road to work with Rod Petrie?


:bitchy:

[Billy Whizz]

Does anyone seriously think that John Collins would come back to Easter Road to work with Rod Petrie?


:bitchy:


But Rod isn't running the club on a day to day basis like before. He would report to Scott Lindsay I presume

[Hibbyradge]

Does anyone seriously think that John Collins would come back to Easter Road to work with Rod Petrie?


:bitchy:

John Collins is a failed football manager. He caused massive dressing room unrest, signed terrible players and ran off in the huff when he didn't get his way.

Why would we want him back?

[southern hibby]

I remember HIBS beat Celtic 3-2 at Easter Road and on that day Hibs changed their tactics 3 or 4 times which had the smellies guessing all game. This is the only game I can remember that Hibs changed tactics like this over and over again to get the win. If I remember correctly (think it was Strachan) that moaned about it on tv after the game.. The Cup final was Tactically sound, infact motivation and tactics that day were excellant. For me this would be a YES, however I cannot seeit happening for obvious reasons, BUT i think he would make an excellent number 2 as we could all see what he was trying to achieve. GGTTH

[johnrebus]

John Collins is a failed football manager. He caused massive dressing room unrest, signed terrible players and ran off in the huff when he didn't get his way.

Why would we want him back?


I didn't say I wanted him back, just found it strange that some folks seem to think that he and Petrie could work together again, when this will plainly never happen.

I agree with your opinion on Collins - but he did know how to play the game - just couldn't pick the right players to do it.

IMHO Collins should be coaching full time, its a shame that he is currently lost to the game in that respect.


:coffee:

[Hibbyradge]

John Collins is a failed football manager. He caused massive dressing room unrest, signed terrible players and ran off in the huff when he didn't get his way.

Why would we want him back?


I didn't say I wanted him back, just found it strange that some folks seem to think that he and Petrie could work together again, when this will plainly never happen.

I agree with your opinion on Collins - but he did know how to play the game - just couldn't pick the right players to do it.

IMHO Collins should be coaching full time, its a shame that he is currently lost to the game in that respect.


:coffee:

Gotcha.

I guess relationships can be repaired, if the parties want it.

Footballers egos tend to make that a bit more challenging though and JC definitely has an ego!

[Cropley10]

John Collins is a failed football manager. He caused massive dressing room unrest, signed terrible players and ran off in the huff when he didn't get his way.

Why would we want him back?

Who hasn't signed 'terrible players' since he left? We've got plenty of 'terrible players' right now in fact.

Collins had a Plan A a Plan B and often a Plan C, no-one since has had a Plan B. The Cup Final, the 81% game, the Celtic and Rangers wins, the 6-1 demolition of Motherwell are now all dim and distant memories.

Everything else you state is your opinion based on innuendo, myth and rumour IMHO. No-one on this board knows why he quit, it's never been publicly spoken about nor explained. The suggestion is the Board withdrew their support for him - which, if true, only goes to prove what a lot of people already think.

Collins is our most successful manager of recent times.

[Posh Swanny]

Makalamby

McCann
Hogg
Jones
Murphy

Kerr
Beuzelin
Chisholm

Fletcher (Obrien 82)
Donaldson (Morais 46)
Curier (Zemamma 74)

Awful team made up of a mixture of Mowbray players, awful signings and second rate youth team players beset by dressing room unrest and hatred towards their manager I'm sure you'll agree. It also happens to be the line up that took the piss out of Rangers for ten minutes at Ibrox and won 1-0 to go to the TOP of the SPL nine games into the season - when was the last time that had happened?!

Much like the previous season's high-point, there was then a run of one win in eight. Collins is derided by many on the back of two poor spells. But if a pretty major success followed by a relatviely short run of poor form is enough for Hibs fans to write their managers off then you may as well give up and go home as you will never be happy.

[Stevie Reid]

John Collins is a failed football manager.

I truly cannot believe comments like this. Of the 3 cup competitions that he managed us in, we won the League Cup final with a 5-1 win, and got to the semi of the Scottish - in the SPL we had notable away wins at Ibrox, Tynecastle and Fir Park, and 2 home wins against Celtic (7 points from 9 in 3 home games against them overall).

His record at Hibs was: -



P 54
W 23
D 15
L 16


His record at Cherleroi was: -

P 18 W 7 D 4 L 7

His overall record is: -

P 72 W 30 D 19 L 23

Whatever your issues with how he left us and what he left us with, Collins can in no way be described as a failed football manager.

[Stevie Reid]

Our home record under Collins: -

P 29 W 16 D 8 L 5

55% win ratio

17 % loss ratio

Away record: -

P 25 W 7 D 7 L 11

His away win ratio of 28% is only 2 percent behind Mixu's overall win ratio.

[jdships]

John Collins is a failed football manager. He caused massive dressing room unrest, signed terrible players and ran off in the huff when he didn't get his way.

Why would we want him back?

:top marks
I know from first hand how bad his man management relationship with the young players was .
Unapproachable in the extreme , Unwilling to give one to one's with lads that needed guidance .
His stock phrase was " If you need help ask your parents".
I would add that he is a lovely person whose company, socially , I have enjoyed on a number of occasions - kind , articulate and knowledgeable about many things

Always hoped/wished he has made it as a manager - " some people are born to be leaders others to be followers " sad but true

:flag:

[Cropley10]

:top marks
I know from first hand how bad his man management relationship with the young players was .
Unapproachable in the extreme , Unwilling to give one to one's with lads that needed guidance .
His stock phrase was " If you need help ask your parents".
I would add that he is a lovely person whose company, socially , I have enjoyed on a number of occasions - kind , articulate and knowledgeable about many things

Always hoped/wished he has made it as a manager - " some people are born to be leaders others to be followers " sad but true

:flag:

Not sure that young Lewis Stevenson or young Kevin McCann would agree with you about not helping younger players.

Younger players should be looked after by their Coach, at Under 19 or below, so I can't really understand which of these 'younger players' you're referring to?

[Stevie Reid]

Our home record under Collins: -

P 29 W 16 D 8 L 5

55% win ratio

17 % loss ratio


Our last 29 home games: -

P 29 W 7 D 9 L 13

24% win ratio

45% loss ratio

[The Harp Awakes]

Very true. Or perhaps he walked for some other reason? Was he not favourite for the Scotland job at the time?

I recall at the time he cited frustration at lack of transfer funds and I doubt that will have changed, at all SPL clubs, but I think all managers could say that and probably be right. If it was as a point of principle there was nothing to stop him clearly stating this. Given Jimmy Calderwoods comments the other week when commenting on things at ER, with Collins beside him, I am surprised that Tango man is now waxing lyrical about ER and looking for the job. Makes no sense.

That Collins has not really worked properly as a coach again (other than a short spell in Belgium) is disappointing as I do he believe he has ability, so a lot of questions about him remain unanswered. Which is a great pity.

To his credit, John never elaborated on the reason he left. I expect because he didn't want to damage the Club.

We had the chance under JC to go to the next level and challenge the OF on a regular basis but that chance was lost, IMO mainly because the Hibs Board failed to back him both on matters of principle and financially. I think it is correct though that he made mistakes himself in his tenure but as an inexperienced Manager mistakes were inevitable and he will have learnt from them.

If the Board have any ambition, and John would consider a return, then he may be our next Manager and we get a 2nd chance to get away from years of mediocrity.

[Ray_]

Not sure that young Lewis Stevenson or young Kevin McCann would agree with you about not helping younger players.

Younger players should be looked after by their Coach, at Under 19 or below, so I can't really understand which of these 'younger players' you're referring to?

I agree, in any organisation there is a chain of command & you would be heading straight up the line to the top with a problem & as youngsters needing help, they should look at their immediate boss in the pyramid system as its that person who they would have more of a relationship with, failing that, the next up the line.

[Stevie Reid]

Our last 29 home games: -

P 29 W 7 D 9 L 13

24% win ratio

45% loss ratio

Which of course means that we have failed to win in 21 (76%) of our last 29 home games - almost 2 seasons worth.

[jdships]

Not sure that young Lewis Stevenson or young Kevin McCann would agree with you about not helping younger players.

Younger players should be looked after by their Coach, at Under 19 or below, so I can't really understand which of these 'younger players' you're referring to?


I can only quote from what my two, then, young relatives who were at ER at that time, told me.
I trust you will accept that it would not be correct/fair to print their names .
I cannot comment on LS and KMcC as I have no first hand knowledge of their early careers as you appear to have , which I accept
No two people have the same make up and/or attitude and that is something a manager , never mind in what capacity , has to learn to deal with quickly . You will know this from your own working life I'm sure !!
If a manager/supervisor cannot find the right level quickly, he loses respect of the workforce and that was what seemed to occur with JC.
As I have said many times hi is truly a very nice person and am sorry it hasn't worked out but at the same time is it not noticeable that he has not succeeded in management since .

:confused:

[Sudds_1]

Absolutely, his signings were murder. Team wasn't that good either, he just got a good run in the cup and folk think he is the saviour!! JC is not what HIbs need. Would much rather JJ than JC if I was honest.

yep....with somebody else's team. Overall, he was close to murder and heading for the sack anyways........:agree:

[jdships]

I agree, in any organisation there is a chain of command & you would be heading straight up the line to the top with a problem & as youngsters needing help, they should look at their immediate boss in the pyramid system as its that person who they would have more of a relationship with, failing that, the next up the line.


Which is exactly what my two did and the next level ( JC) " failed " them as well
What were they supposed to do then - go to see RP ? :greengrin
It happens in many businesses as you probably well know !!
:rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

Who hasn't signed 'terrible players' since he left? We've got plenty of 'terrible players' right now in fact.Collins had a Plan A a Plan B and often a Plan C, no-one since has had a Plan B. The Cup Final, the 81% game, the Celtic and Rangers wins, the 6-1 demolition of Motherwell are now all dim and distant memories.Everything else you state is your opinion based on innuendo, myth and rumour IMHO. No-one on this board knows why he quit, it's never been publicly spoken about nor explained. The suggestion is the Board withdrew their support for him - which, if true, only goes to prove what a lot of people already think. Collins is our most successful manager of recent times.Agree completely.

[Stevie Reid]

yep....with somebody else's team. Overall, he was close to murder and heading for the sack anyways........:agree:

Unbelievable. Have you read any of the rest of this thread?

[matty_f]

I agree, in any organisation there is a chain of command & you would be heading straight up the line to the top with a problem & as youngsters needing help, they should look at their immediate boss in the pyramid system as its that person who they would have more of a relationship with, failing that, the next up the line.Completely agree, and I suppose this is why petrie had to see the players after they got no resolution with their issues from collins.

[ScottB]

Completely agree, and I suppose this is why petrie had to see the players after they got no resolution with their issues from collins.

Indeed, if they faced no response from their direct boss, they had every right to go over his head, that's simple employee rights. Funny how folk seem to think footballers are exempt to such things. It might be a different situation to what happens in a shop or an office, but the same rules apply.

[HFC 0-7]

yep....with somebody else's team. Overall, he was close to murder and heading for the sack anyways........:agree:

wasnt someone elses team though, check my other posts and see that after the good players went and all the 'bad' ones he brought in he still had a very very good record.

[HFC 0-7]

Completely agree, and I suppose this is why petrie had to see the players after they got no resolution with their issues from collins.

Maybe so, but if they were right in doing so why did they publicly apologise for what they did? Thing is, in the last few seasons since JC left we have been shouting from the rooftops for a manager that will come in and kick the players up the backside. Collins didnt seem to bow to any sort of player pressure and by all accounts tried to change culture and we slated him.

JC had bad man management, tried to change the culture, sold of our best players and bought duds yet still managed to have a great record.

Mixu and CC were apparently very well liked by the players, no player revolts, didnt buy as many duff players as JC, had managerial experience but couldnt get close to JC's record.

Everyone seems to accept that JC's signings were mince but he still managed to have a great record. Imagine if he had someone alongside him that would help get decent signings!!

[s.a.m]

Who hasn't signed 'terrible players' since he left? We've got plenty of 'terrible players' right now in fact.

Collins had a Plan A a Plan B and often a Plan C, no-one since has had a Plan B. The Cup Final, the 81% game, the Celtic and Rangers wins, the 6-1 demolition of Motherwell are now all dim and distant memories.

Everything else you state is your opinion based on innuendo, myth and rumour IMHO. No-one on this board knows why he quit, it's never been publicly spoken about nor explained. The suggestion is the Board withdrew their support for him - which, if true, only goes to prove what a lot of people already think.

Collins is our most successful manager of recent times.


To his credit, John never elaborated on the reason he left. I expect because he didn't want to damage the Club.

We had the chance under JC to go to the next level and challenge the OF on a regular basis but that chance was lost, IMO mainly because the Hibs Board failed to back him both on matters of principle and financially. I think it is correct though that he made mistakes himself in his tenure but as an inexperienced Manager mistakes were inevitable and he will have learnt from them.

If the Board have any ambition, and John would consider a return, then he may be our next Manager and we get a 2nd chance to get away from years of mediocrity.

John Collins gave an interview, in French, to a Belgian or French newspaper - cannae remember - which IIRC was copied and pasted on either here or the Bounce. Someone with more technological know-how than I have may be able to find it. He discussed his leaving of Hibs, and said that he felt he had been unfairly treated by the Board because he had gone to them and recommended that it was the right time to sell the young players who were performing so well, and that they took his advice. He felt that having made this money for the club, it was only fair that he should have been allowed part of the income to spend on the players he wanted. I think he also talked about leaving Charleroi in the same article, and claimed that they weren't able to realise his vision. Either.

I think he has a lot to offer football, and I was disappointed that he didn't stay to see it through with Hibs. However, I'm not sure his 'vision' can be realised at a club our size. The question is whether a club with the budget he requires would be willing to take on someone with so little experience (or the profile to make up for it).

[The Falcon]

The burning question is that he walked out on us four years ago now (next month) and, other than a short spell in Belgium (who didnt match his ambitions either apparently) he has done nothing since to justify the comments here.

Michael O'Neill, on the other hand, spent time as assistant at Cowdenbeath before taking over at Brechin when you get the impression Collins would not touch either of those jobs. O'Neill has worked away for the past couple of years building a team that has won back to back titles, who most us would dismiss out of hand, and compete in the group stage of the Europa Cup. Something Rangers or Hearts couldn't do.

Yet some of those praising Collins disregard O'Neill :dunno:

[easty]

The burning question is that he walked out on us four years ago now (next month) and, other than a short spell in Belgium (who didnt match his ambitions either apparently) he has done nothing since to justify the comments here.

Michael O'Neill, on the other hand, spent time as assistant at Cowdenbeath before taking over at Brechin when you get the impression Collins would not touch either of those jobs. O'Neill has worked away for the past couple of years building a team that has won back to back titles and steered his side, who most us would dismiss out of hand, through the Champions league qualifier to compete in the group stage. Something Rangers couldn't do.

Yet some of those praising Collins disregard O'Neill :dunno:

Champions league...yer having a laugh.:greengrin

[The Falcon]

Champions league...yer having a laugh.:greengrin


Oops :greengrin

Corrected though.............:taxi

[blackpoolhibs]

Collins won a few and lost a few, but what we really need to know is, can he beat Calderwoods fabulous February as its no known?:greengrin

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

:agree:

Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead).

Let's have a little perspective here - when JC resigned, our league record was: -

P 17 W 7 D 6 L 4

27 points from 17 games - 1.6 points per game, enough to secure us 60 points over the course of the season (Motherwell finished 3rd on 60 points). People will rightly point out that we had won only one out of his last 8 in charge (W 1 D 3 L 4) but 3 of those defeats were away to Motherwell, Aberdeen and ICT respectively - only the home defeat to St. Mirren could truly be considered a very bad result.

It's also worth bearing in mind that for 3 of the 6 draws we had had up to JC's departure, we came from 2 goals down (we also came back from 2 goals down to win against Gretna), meaning that we secured 6 points from losing positions in those four games - when have we been as resilient as that since? Yes, we were on a bad run when JC left, but to imply that we were only going one way is pure conjecture. The upturn in form when Mixu took over (the best spell of his time at Hibs, largely with JC's team, obviously) came from 6 wins from 7 games, where the fixtures were home games Gretna, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell and Killie, with an away game at Falkirk too - I would have fancied JC to have got us results in those games too.

I appreciate that that is also conjecture on my part, but there is more evidence to suggest that JC's side were having a bad spell (which Hibs team doesn't?), rather than us being headed towards the bottom of the league. Colllins had 7 wins out of 17 games - we won another 7 out of the remaining 21 games that season, so Collins' time was easily the best. The fact that Mixu had us in the top 6 weeks before the split, owed a lot to the great early form of JC's Hibs team.

I would like to make it clear that I thought Collins' reasons for walking away from Hibs were nonsense, there's no way that the targets that he was after would have been realistic for us - I also remember the dodgy signings and the incidents like playing McCann at centre half at Pittodrie - however, Collins deserves a lot better than many on here are giving him. Given how much time some were prepared to give Calderwood's team to gel and come good, it's incredible that people can state with such certainty that JC's 2007-08 team were just a flash in the pan being found out, as opposed to a decent team going through a sticky patch.

We will never know one way or the other now - but there's no way that Collins left us in as bad a way as many on here are stating. An overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 and a 5-1 national cup final win means he should ALWAYS be highly regarded, and well remembered.

:flag::top marks

[Cropley10]

The burning question is that he walked out on us four years ago now (next month) and, other than a short spell in Belgium (who didnt match his ambitions either apparently) he has done nothing since to justify the comments here.

Michael O'Neill, on the other hand, spent time as assistant at Cowdenbeath before taking over at Brechin when you get the impression Collins would not touch either of those jobs. O'Neill has worked away for the past couple of years building a team that has won back to back titles, who most us would dismiss out of hand, and compete in the group stage of the Europa Cup. Something Rangers or Hearts couldn't do.

Yet some of those praising Collins disregard O'Neill :dunno:

You must know why JC left. You know everything that goes on behind the scenes don't you? You're In The Know and you know STF and RP. And JC was basically a bad apple and we're well shot of him and his huge ego. Right?

The simple answer btw is MON never earned a fraction of what JC did from the game. JC is cash rich MON isn't. One has to work, the other doesn't.

Of course the League of Ireland is a tough, tough test. Nothing at all like a pub league

[Cropley10]

Indeed, if they faced no response from their direct boss, they had every right to go over his head, that's simple employee rights. Funny how folk seem to think footballers are exempt to such things. It might be a different situation to what happens in a shop or an office, but the same rules apply.

That's right. When I don't like what my Boss tells me I go running off to his Boss. He's always very understanding.

[greenlex]

That's right. When I don't like what my Boss tells me I go running off to his Boss. He's always very understanding.

What would you do if you thought your boss was being completely nreasonable and you thought what he was doing was wrong?

[The Falcon]

You must know why JC left. You know everything that goes on behind the scenes don't you? You're In The Know and you know STF and RP. And JC was basically a bad apple and we're well shot of him and his huge ego. Right?

The simple answer btw is MON never earned a fraction of what JC did from the game. JC is cash rich MON isn't. One has to work, the other doesn't.


Now who's making things up. Where did I say JC was a bad apple? Or even a bad person? You're becoming a tad obsessed.




That's right. When I don't like what my Boss tells me I go running off to his Boss. He's always very understanding.


He should do. Its called a grievance procedure and it's enshrined in employment law. Even you have that right.

[Cropley10]

What would you do if you thought your boss was being unreasonable?

So JC was being unreasonable was he? In what way?

[greenlex]

So JC was being unreasonable was he? In what way?

That isn't what I am saying. I am asking if you thought your bss was being unreasonable.

[Cropley10]

Now who's making things up. Where did I say JC was a bad apple? Or even a bad person? You're becoming a tad obsessed.






He should do. Its called a grievance procedure and it's enshrined in employment law. Even you have that right.

You have a staunchly pro STF and RP stance. You are anti JC and his huge ego.

My working experience is about managing upwards. Unless Collins was in breach of contract then the team needed to man-up collectively.

[Cropley10]

That isn't what I am saying. I am asking if you thought your bss was being unreasonable.

If my boss was in breach of contract I'd go up one. Was JC?

[greenlex]

If my boss was in breach of contract I'd go up one. Was JC?

No he wasn't but the players obviously thought he was and went up one.

FWIW I would ave him back in a heartbeat but having walked from the job he won't get a second chance.

[The Falcon]

You have a staunchly pro STF and RP stance. You are anti JC and his huge ego.

My working experience is about managing upwards. Unless Collins was in breach of contract then the team needed to man-up collectively.


I like JC. He is a lovely man.

[Cropley10]

No he wasn't but the players obviously thought he was and went up one.

FWIW I would ave him back in a heartbeat but having walked from the job he won't get a second chance.

Fair enough Lex. I'm sick of this revisionism and mud slinging against a former hero, and someone who brought me and my wee man a great deal of joy.

[greenlex]

Fair enough Lex. I'm sick of this revisionism and mud slinging against a former hero, and someone who brought me and my wee man a great deal of joy.

I agree.:agree:

[ScottB]

That's right. When I don't like what my Boss tells me I go running off to his Boss. He's always very understanding.

While I'm pretty sure neither you, nor I know exactly what went on between the players, Petrie and Collins, I'm going with some hypotheticals here.

Presumably whatever happened resulted in some players making their feelings known to Collins, Collins presumably dismissed these issues out of hand, perhaps this happened a few times. The players, feeling that they are being ignored, go over Collins' head.

Now, whether the players had genuine concerns or not (and I'm not going into that here), clearly Collins failed to handle the situation, leaving them to take their perfectly justified action of going to Petrie.


The primary issue that I see in this is that Collins clearly lacked the ability to handle the concerns / issues / complaints of those in his charge, whether those were genuine complaints or them whingeing about being worked hard doesn't really matter, it's the job of a manager of any group of people to get those in his team working not just for him, but with him. For what it's worth, I think Collins was probably in the right, just how he went about it probably wasn't the best.

[HFC 0-7]

While I'm pretty sure neither you, nor I know exactly what went on between the players, Petrie and Collins, I'm going with some hypotheticals here.

Presumably whatever happened resulted in some players making their feelings known to Collins, Collins presumably dismissed these issues out of hand, perhaps this happened a few times. The players, feeling that they are being ignored, go over Collins' head.

Now, whether the players had genuine concerns or not (and I'm not going into that here), clearly Collins failed to handle the situation, leaving them to take their perfectly justified action of going to Petrie.


The primary issue that I see in this is that Collins clearly lacked the ability to handle the concerns / issues / complaints of those in his charge, whether those were genuine complaints or them whingeing about being worked hard doesn't really matter, it's the job of a manager of any group of people to get those in his team working not just for him, but with him. For what it's worth, I think Collins was probably in the right, just how he went about it probably wasn't the best.

If that was the case then they would be well within their rights to go to Petrie, but if it was true why would they publicly apologise for doing what they did?

[ScottB]

If that was the case then they would be well within their rights to go to Petrie, but if it was true why would they publicly apologise for doing what they did?

No idea, maybe because the mood among the fans pretty much demanded it?

We don't really know what happened for sure, we presumably won't unless the various folk involved start talking / ditch their gagging clauses...

[BEEJ]

If that was the case then they would be well within their rights to go to Petrie, but if it was true why would they publicly apologise for doing what they did?


No idea, maybe because the mood among the fans pretty much demanded it?

:agree: Collins expressed to the press a clear sense of betrayal, particularly from some of the senior players in the squad.

Meantime the supporters (almost en masse) backed JC who had just delivered a trophy to the club but were angered by the timing of an apparent player 'revolt' which had served only to undermine the team's attempt at the Scottish Cup that season.

So Jones gave a public apology on behalf of the players in an effort to:

mend fences with JC;
try to get the players back on side with the fans;
neutralise the issue so that the media would move away and start to focus on something else.


I think you're spot on with your assessment of the situation, Scott, as you've set out in post #176. :top marks

[Ray_]

No he wasn't but the players obviously thought he was and went up one.

FWIW I would ave him back in a heartbeat but having walked from the job he won't get a second chance.

And the players attitudes have since then proved that they were merely victims of JC desire to change the culture? I personally think that we need somebody to do exactly what JC tried & that was to make us a hard working and professional acting outfit.

[Eyrie]

Given the consensus on Collins' difficulties in man-management, I've always wondered if one of the reasons Petrie backed the players was that Collins didn't manage him properly with the result that Petrie sympathised with the players' feelings of having their concerns brushed aside.

[greenlex]

Given the consensus on Collins' difficulties in man-management, I've always wondered if one of the reasons Petrie backed the players was that Collins didn't manage him properly with the result that Petrie sympathised with the players' feelings of having their concerns brushed aside.

FFS here we go again!!!!!!! In what way did Petrie back the players after te infamous meeting?

[blackpoolhibs]

FFS here we go again!!!!!!! In what way did Petrie back the players after te infamous meeting?

Its been said that many times now its become a fact, even when its complete bollox from start to finish. :agree:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Its been said that many times now its become a fact, even when its complete bollox from start to finish. :agree:

Is there like a thirty year bar on releasing the papers on this one? Since it seems to be at the root - for some - of the issues would be good to clear up I'm not clear on what happened and whilst others may spout b@&&&@cks I'm not clear the actual truth has outed.

For me the unanswered questions include why (apparently) so many, including some youth players were involved?
Why the timing?
What was the gripe?

Could argue no point going over old coals but if the club want to listen on how we want them to engage us then maybe we should get some insights into such matters at an appropriate time

[ScottB]

Is there like a thirty year bar on releasing the papers on this one? Since it seems to be at the root - for some - of the issues would be good to clear up I'm not clear on what happened and whilst others may spout b@&&&@cks I'm not clear the actual truth has outed.

For me the unanswered questions include why (apparently) so many, including some youth players were involved?
Why the timing?
What was the gripe?

Could argue no point going over old coals but if the club want to listen on how we want them to engage us then maybe we should get some insights into such matters at an appropriate time

Folk will still believe whatever they like, witness the AGM:

Petrie 'I'm taking a step back, others will identify the new boss'

Folk on here 'Aye right! Petrie pulls all the strings blah blah blah'

[huggie1875]

Why ???

1 he signed pish
2 chased out the good players we had
3 ok he won the cup but not one of the players were his
4 when the going ghot tough he pissed off

I REALLY DONT GET IT

OH and he swapped Ivan for Alan Obrian NUFF SAID:hibees

[muzzhfc]

i totally agree to be honest . . .

[huggie1875]

and before anyone blames RP for it remember he made an even bigger erse of it in Belgium

[Ferryhibby]

Bang on....Collins left because he had won a trophy with his first club in charge, and that would look great on his cv, his ideas on the game are correct but the players HE brought in were guff, too slow and once again not good enough, when he wanted out he spouted about not being backed by the board, saying they wouldnt give him the money to sign naismith, who was already on his way to rangers, or hammil, who had already signed for motherwell, to name just 2, god forbid we get him back.

[brog]

Bang on....Collins left because he had won a trophy with his first club in charge, and that would look great on his cv, his ideas on the game are correct but the players HE brought in were guff, too slow and once again not good enough, when he wanted out he spouted about not being backed by the board, saying they wouldnt give him the money to sign naismith, who was already on his way to rangers, or hammil, who had already signed for motherwell, to name just 2, god forbid we get him back.

With respect Hibs ( JC ) spoke to Stevie Hammell almost a month before he signed for Well.

[Hibby cal]

Surley if Jc was not cut out to be our number one, he must be Able to offer us something to help out at youth development level??? To much talent going to waste.:

[Love the Green]

With respect Hibs ( JC ) spoke to Stevie Hammell almost a month before he signed for Well.

CORRECT and a small club like Motherwell with home gates on 5k offered him wages that Rod would not compete with end off.

"keep the faith"

[huggie1875]

aye JC was so good that well eh ahem he eh did a well eh great job in well eh all the others hes well ahem had since his amazing cough cough time at Hibs and the Belgian club that clubs have been falling over themselves to offer him a job


IF COLLINS RETURNS IT WILL TAKE MORE THAN FAITH TO RESCUE US


:flag:MON ROD GET MON:flag:

[Andy74]

CORRECT and a small club like Motherwell with home gates on 5k offered him wages that Rod would not compete with end off.

"keep the faith"

That's rubbish. Hammel was a player tha JC talked about afterwards but the fact was that JC walked before he even talked to the Board about budget and specific players.

Just a few weeks later we spent money on getting Mixu in, Nish, Rankin, and Ian Murray. Might have been more. Motherwell, who were fairly skint then signed Hammell.

If we had wanted him we would have signed him. It's nonsense that JC asked for him and we refuse to pay as much as Motherwell.

[Love the Green]

That's rubbish. Hammel was a player tha JC talked about afterwards but the fact was that JC walked before he even talked to the Board about budget and specific players.

Just a few weeks later we spent money on getting Mixu in, Nish, Rankin, and Ian Murray. Might have been more. Motherwell, who were fairly skint then signed Hammell.

If we had wanted him we would have signed him. It's nonsense that JC asked for him and we refuse to pay as much as Motherwell.

Yes we spent money but we would not break the "wages strcuture" to sign Hammell Motherwell offerd him better wages.

"keep the faith"

[brog]

That's rubbish. Hammel was a player tha JC talked about afterwards but the fact was that JC walked before he even talked to the Board about budget and specific players.

Just a few weeks later we spent money on getting Mixu in, Nish, Rankin, and Ian Murray. Might have been more. Motherwell, who were fairly skint then signed Hammell.

If we had wanted him we would have signed him. It's nonsense that JC asked for him and we refuse to pay as much as Motherwell.

Not correct I'm afraid. The specific gap was £500 per week. I was told about it long before Hammell signed for Well. My source was a championship player at the time who had also been approached by Hibs.
That doesn't mean Hammell then got the money he was after from Well but the gap between what he wanted & we would pay was £500 pw.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Folk will still believe whatever they like, witness the AGM:

Petrie 'I'm taking a step back, others will identify the new boss'

Folk on here 'Aye right! Petrie pulls all the strings blah blah blah'

Fairy nuff. You are right sometimes they can say stuff til they are blue in the face.
This one would be decent to clear up though but I understand it would be goin over old coals and only bring more questions. Don't envy the task of the board

[Viva_Palmeiras]

aye JC was so good that well eh ahem he eh did a well eh great job in well eh all the others hes well ahem had since his amazing cough cough time at Hibs and the Belgian club that clubs have been falling over themselves to offer him a job


IF COLLINS RETURNS IT WILL TAKE MORE THAN FAITH TO RESCUE US


:flag:MON ROD GET MON:flag:
Go girl you're on fire tonight ;)

[Love the Green]

aye JC was so good that well eh ahem he eh did a well eh great job in well eh all the others hes well ahem had since his amazing cough cough time at Hibs and the Belgian club that clubs have been falling over themselves to offer him a job


IF COLLINS RETURNS IT WILL TAKE MORE THAN FAITH TO RESCUE US


:flag:MON ROD GET MON:flag:

Not sure I backed JC to return just trying to confirm that we were after Hammell and why we did not get him. Still usual on here folk jumping in the deep end who cant swim.

"keep the faith"

[huggie1875]

Not sure I backed JC to return just trying to confirm that we were after Hammell and why we did not get him. Still usual on here folk jumping in the deep end who cant swim.

"keep the faith"


NEVER said you did but Still usual on here folk jumping in the deep end who cant swim

[Love the Green]

NEVER said you did but Still usual on here folk jumping in the deep end who cant swim

So why reply to my post to slag off JC...guy won us a cup and gave us a memorable day out which are few and far between.
I am aware it was not his team but no way would TM have won the dogs quarter final or the semi final.

"keep the faith"

[BEEJ]

That's rubbish. Hammel was a player tha JC talked about afterwards but the fact was that JC walked before he even talked to the Board about budget and specific players.

Just a few weeks later we spent money on getting Mixu in, Nish, Rankin, and Ian Murray. Might have been more. Motherwell, who were fairly skint then signed Hammell.

If we had wanted him we would have signed him. It's nonsense that JC asked for him and we refuse to pay as much as Motherwell.
Well you're calling JC an out and out liar then. This was his interview with Scotland on Sunday a few days after he departed:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/beuzelin_jones_and_murphy_to_follow_collins_out_of _hibs_1_1428565

It's all in there.


[/B]Not correct I'm afraid. The specific gap was £500 per week. I was told about it long before Hammell signed for Well. My source was a championship player at the time who had also been approached by Hibs.
That doesn't mean Hammell then got the money he was after from Well but the gap between what he wanted & we would pay was £500 pw.
And this is consistent with JC's version of events.

Fact is that RP was embarrassed by JC's exit and how outspoken he was able to be given that he had not signed a confidentiality agreement with the club to keep him from speaking to the press.

[huggie1875]

So why reply to my post to slag off JC...guy won us a cup and gave us a memorable day out which are few and far between.
I am aware it was not his team but no way would TM have won the dogs quarter final or the semi final.

"keep the faith"

actually it was was a reply to the guy who wanted him back sorry but this forum aint all about you for the record though as your defending him it would seem you would welcome his return so instead of making remarks but not having an opinion on him which seems rather silly why sont you state now would you welcome his return or not?

[huggie1875]

Well you're calling JC an out and out liar then. This was his interview with Scotland on Sunday a few days after he departed:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/beuzelin_jones_and_murphy_to_follow_collins_out_of _hibs_1_1428565

It's all in there.


And this is consistent with JC's version of events.

Fact is that RP was embarrassed by JC's exit and how outspoken he was able to be given that he had not signed a confidentiality agreement with the club to keep him from speaking to the press.


to be fair mate cause Collins said it to a paper does not make it so

[BEEJ]

to be fair mate cause Collins said it to a paper does not make it so
Never!! You don't say!! :faint:

On the other hand some folk on here moan their heads off all the time that former Managers should just come out and tell it like it is. Stop pussy-footing around, dropping hints at things going on behind the scenes. "Be honest and spill the beans - otherwise just shut up." they say.

Well here JC did tell it like it is, three days after leaving ER.

You either believe that there's some truth in JC's side of events or you consider him to be delusional and willing to say anything to shift the blame from his own shoulders.

(For the record, JC had many failings as a Manager. But that doesn't make him culpable for everything that happened at ER under his tenure.)

[huggie1875]

Never!! You don't say!! :faint:

On the other hand some folk on here moan their heads off all the time that former Managers should just come out and tell it like it is. Stop pussy-footing around, dropping hints at things going on behind the scenes. "Be honest and spill the beans - otherwise just shut up." they say.

Well here JC did tell it like it is, three days after leaving ER.

You either believe that there's some truth in JC's side of events or you consider him to be delusional and willing to say anything to shift the blame from his own shoulders.

(For the record, JC had many failings as a Manager. But that doesn't make him culpable for everything that happened at ER under his tenure.)

:faf: so you used the link to prove your point but then state that it could be balls :faf:

[BEEJ]

:faf: so you used the link to prove your point but then state that it could be balls :faf:
No.

I'm presenting it as testimony from one who was directly involved and leaving each individual to make up their own mind whether it is valid evidence or not. Personally, I can't see why JC would have told such lies and so am of the opinion that there's more than a core of truth in what he says there.

You clearly feel differently. That is your choice.

By the way, save the ridicule smilies for our Yam friends, there's a good lad.

[huggie1875]

No.

I'm presenting it as testimony from one who was directly involved and leaving each individual to make up their own mind whether it is valid evidence or not. Personally, I can't see why JC would have told such lies and so am of the opinion that there's more than a core of truth in what he says there.

You clearly feel differently. That is your choice.

By the way, save the ridicule smilies for our Yam friends, there's a good lad.

read your post again then you put "its all in there " and we must be calling collins a liar well maybe he is as for the ridicule smiles your post made me laugh that much one post declaring it must be true i saw it in a paper the next well it might not be true cause its in the paper

by the way when you want to talk down to people save for our Yam friends, there's a good lad:aok:

[Makaveli]

The telling quote from JC in that article:
There is a wage limit at the club, of course there is, there's budgets at every club but sometimes they have to be a little bit more flexible.

That's always been the crux of it IMO. Obviously there's a wage budget, but the wage structure ("limit" as JC calls it) ensuring that no player earns more than £x,xxx/wk is a problem.

This is where Petrie's influence has been felt. He may not "interfere" as such, but he made the rules by which our managers have had to play. It should surely be up to the manager how to allocate the budget he's given, anything else is short-term thinking.

[BEEJ]

read your post again then you put "its all in there " and we must be calling collins a liar well maybe he is as for the ridicule smiles your post made me laugh that much one post declaring it must be true i saw it in a paper the next well it might not be true cause its in the paper

by the way when you want to talk down to people save for our Yam friends, there's a good lad:aok:
You should tread carefully for one who has not been on here very long. So far you're majoring on noising up fellow posters and spouting nonsense.

One to avoid it would seem.

[huggie1875]

You should tread carefully for one who has not been on here very long. So far you're majoring on noising up fellow posters and spouting nonsense.

One to avoid it would seem.

A so if your new you must agree with you is this correct???
and can you please point out who i noised up? seems only
you are not happy when disagreed with

[BEEJ]

A so if your new you must agree with you is this correct???
and can you please point out who i noised up? seems only
you are not happy when disagreed with
Must admit the thread you started earlier on this evening is a classic. :greengrin

Bye now. :bye:

[huggie1875]

Must admit the thread you started earlier on this evening is a classic. :greengrin

Bye now. :bye:

which one was that this one that was merged or the one where i asked a question not demand that im right cause i posted more the some one else
all those post and your saying posters should not ask questions that would make this a pretty boring forum

:bye:

[The Harp Awakes]

Well you're calling JC an out and out liar then. This was his interview with Scotland on Sunday a few days after he departed:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/beuzelin_jones_and_murphy_to_follow_collins_out_of _hibs_1_1428565
It's all in there.


And this is consistent with JC's version of events.

Fact is that RP was embarrassed by JC's exit and how outspoken he was able to be given that he had not signed a confidentiality agreement with the club to keep him from speaking to the press.

That's a pretty revealing article in the Scotsman. I've never read that before but it certainly gives an indication as to how difficult Collins job was at the time. £8.8m of talent out with next to nowt to spend on players + curbed by a strict wage structure which made the Manager's job impossible. Nae wonder he walked.

[Hibbyradge]

which one was that this one that was merged or the one where i asked a question not demand that im right cause i posted more the some one else
all those post and your saying posters should not ask questions that would make this a pretty boring forum

:bye:

A word to the wise.

Please use full stops and spaces between sentences so we can understand what you're saying.

Thanks.

[huggie1875]

That's a pretty revealing article in the Scotsman. I've never read that before but it certainly gives an indication as to how difficult Collins job was at the time. £8.8m of talent out with next to nowt to spend on players + curbed by a strict wage structure which made the Manager's job impossible. Nae wonder he walked.

yes if true and never in here have i said anything else but its only one side to be honest i think the tach has not made it easy on any manager but what i was saying is i dont think JC is the man for the job he cant blame RP
for the mess he made of it in belgium and his lack of jobs elsewhere would suggest most chairmen think hes not up for it and given he was with us only a short time and managed to win a cup dont you think its srange his lack of job offers?

[huggie1875]

A word to the wise.

Please use full stops and spaces between sentences so we can understand what you're saying.

Thanks.

oh no the grammar police(just kidding) will try

[Hibbyradge]

oh no the grammar police(just kidding) will try

Nah, not the grammar police. Just self interest on my part.

It's in your own interests though, Huggie.

I'm sure you have something to offer the messageboard, but if folk can't understand you, they won't take your points seriously.

[The Harp Awakes]

yes if true and never in here have i said anything else but its only one side to be honest i think the tach has not made it easy on any manager but what i was saying is i dont think JC is the man for the job he cant blame RP
for the mess he made of it in belgium and his lack of jobs elsewhere would suggest most chairmen think hes not up for it and given he was with us only a short time and managed to win a cup dont you think its srange his lack of job offers?

What bit of the article is not true? £8.8m out on players? Next to nowt to spend on players? The wage structure?

I have no idea how many job offers JC has had since being Hibs Manager. He may have had loads, he may have had none. Collins and his close family are the only ones who will know for sure.

[Makaveli]

yes if true and never in here have i said anything else but its only one side to be honest i think the tach has not made it easy on any manager but what i was saying is i dont think JC is the man for the job he cant blame RP
for the mess he made of it in belgium and his lack of jobs elsewhere would suggest most chairmen think hes not up for it and given he was with us only a short time and managed to win a cup dont you think its srange his lack of job offers?

Fair enough you can dislike the guy, but the revisionism won't fly. Pray tell, exactly what mess did JC make in Belgium?

In 08/09 he fulfilled the aim of keeping Charleoi up and chose not to renew his 6-month contract.

In summer 2010 he was offered the Kortrijk job on the strength of his performance at Charleoi. Kortijk had just finished 4th and qualified for Europe so Collins had obviously earned a reputation in Belgium sufficient to interest their board. He turned the job down for family reasons.

It's one thing to have an opinion but you can't spout garbage as truth.

[The Falcon]

That's a pretty revealing article in the Scotsman. I've never read that before but it certainly gives an indication as to how difficult Collins job was at the time. £8.8m of talent out with next to nowt to spend on players + curbed by a strict wage structure which made the Manager's job impossible. Nae wonder he walked.

If Collins previous signings had proved to be astute I have no doubt money would have been found and his judgement been backed. By all accounts Hammell was the line in the sand as he had already overspent.

At the time all income was earmarked for the debt and Mowbray's (and Collins') training ground. The debt only 4 years earlier was around £17m and Hibs future at ER was very much in doubt.

[SMAXXA]

You know what as much as I like JC and have always gave him the benefit of the doubt about why he left, but just reading though a few intervies got me thinking. He left and yes I can understand because he didnt need the cash, he wouldnt let it tarnish his reputation crap budget etc etc, but part of me also thinks that he was an up and coming manager that lets be honest proved nothing prior to joining us in this capacity, does he have the right to insist on x y an z terms now that he has won the cup? Not saying thats what exactly happened but surley that would have been an opportunity for JC to prove he is an excellent manager that having his resources / best players leaving that he could still prove his worth as a top quality manager? To me the easy option is walk away, na not liking the look of this budget anymore, gona be a right tough job now am quitting whilst im ahead? I know this may not be mainstream but as much as I felt he left too early, does this say more about him than being someone who is so determined and loves a club that much to stick it out, believe in his own tallents and do everything in his capability to make us better?

Im really interested to hear peoples view on this, what he done for us I am so gratefull for and that day at hampden was the best day personally folowing Hibs, just no sure how I feel :confused:

Funny how you start to think after a few beers :greengrin

[huggie1875]

Fair enough you can dislike the guy, but the revisionism won't fly. Pray tell, exactly what mess did JC make in Belgium?

In 08/09 he fulfilled the aim of keeping Charleoi up and chose not to renew his 6-month contract.

In summer 2010 he was offered the Kortrijk job on the strength of his performance at Charleoi. Kortijk had just finished 4th and qualified for Europe so Collins had obviously earned a reputation in Belgium sufficient to interest their board. He turned the job down for family reasons.

It's one thing to have an opinion but you can't spout garbage as truth.

true but try telling that to the folk who add paper links as fact

[The Harp Awakes]

If Collins previous signings had proved to be astute I have no doubt money would have been found and his judgement been backed. By all accounts Hammell was the line in the sand as he had already overspent.

At the time all income was earmarked for the debt and Mowbray's (and Collins') training ground. The debt only 4 years earlier was around £17m and Hibs future at ER was very much in doubt.

Overspent? How much did he overspend from £8.8m?

Whether the income was earmarked for the debt and training ground or not that's totally irrelevent to the Manager if he's had his team decimated and only has the biscuit tin to sign players. FFS the guy would have had to perform a miracle to keep performances up. Despite this handicap Collins WLD record was far superior to his Managerial successors as the statos have indicated on this thread.

[huggie1875]

You know what as much as I like JC and have always gave him the benefit of the doubt about why he left, but just reading though a few intervies got me thinking. He left and yes I can understand because he didnt need the cash, he wouldnt let it tarnish his reputation crap budget etc etc, but part of me also thinks that he was an up and coming manager that lets be honest proved nothing prior to joining us in this capacity, does he have the right to insist on x y an z terms now that he has won the cup? Not saying thats what exactly happened but surley that would have been an opportunity for JC to prove he is an excellent manager that having his resources / best players leaving that he could still prove his worth as a top quality manager? To me the easy option is walk away, na not liking the look of this budget anymore, gona be a right tough job now am quitting whilst im ahead? I know this may not be mainstream but as much as I felt he left too early, does this say more about him than being someone who is so determined and loves a club that much to stick it out, believe in his own tallents and do everything in his capability to make us better?

Im really interested to hear peoples view on this, what he done for us I am so gratefull for and that day at hampden was the best day personally folowing Hibs, just no sure how I feel :confused:

Funny how you start to think after a few beers :greengrin

what i said in the first place when the going got tough he pissed off

[greenlex]

That's a pretty revealing article in the Scotsman. I've never read that before but it certainly gives an indication as to how difficult Collins job was at the time. £8.8m of talent out with next to nowt to spend on players + curbed by a strict wage structure which made the Manager's job impossible. Nae wonder he walked. I dont get this next to nowt on players bit. He had as much and probably more than the orevious managers as far back ad McLiesh.'he spent his budget on AOB Maka Kerr etc etc then when the board wont give more money to dpend over and above he complsins thst its a too tough s job and walks.

[carnoustiehibee]

if he was a good manager he wouldnt signed

Player From Fee
Scotland Brian Kerr Motherwell Free
England Clayton Donaldson York City Free
Republic of Ireland Alan O'Brien Newcastle £200,000
Democratic Republic of the Congo Yves Makabu-Makalambay Chelsea £100,000
Cameroon Thierry Gathuessi Sète Free
Portugal Filipe Morais Millwall Free
France Mickaël Antoine-Curier Haugesund Nomial Fee
France Patrick Noubissie Swindon Town Free
Scotland Ian Murray Norwich City Free
Scotland John Rankin Inverness CT £110,000
Scotland Colin Nish Kilmarnock £100,000
Algeria Abderraouf Zarabi Gueugnon Undisclosed fee
Scotland Martin Canning


if jc had brought in good players on the money petrie gave him (and im sure with his contacts there is some) then i think the board woulda trusted jc with more money and gave him a bigger budget.

look at davie moyes at everton, if that was jc in charge he woulda snuck into the media/reporting backgound with the first sniff of trouble.

[millarco]

if he was a good manager he wouldnt signed

Player From Fee
Scotland Brian Kerr Motherwell Free
England Clayton Donaldson York City Free
Republic of Ireland Alan O'Brien Newcastle £200,000
Democratic Republic of the Congo Yves Makabu-Makalambay Chelsea £100,000
Cameroon Thierry Gathuessi Sète Free
Portugal Filipe Morais Millwall Free
France Mickaël Antoine-Curier Haugesund Nomial Fee
France Patrick Noubissie Swindon Town Free
Scotland Ian Murray Norwich City Free
Scotland John Rankin Inverness CT £110,000
Scotland Colin Nish Kilmarnock £100,000
Algeria Abderraouf Zarabi Gueugnon Undisclosed fee
Scotland Martin Canning


if jc had brought in good players on the money petrie gave him (and im sure with his contacts there is some) then i think the board woulda trusted jc with more money and gave him a bigger budget.

look at davie moyes at everton, if that was jc in charge he woulda snuck into the media/reporting backgound with the first sniff of trouble.

He didn't sign Canning, Zarabi, Nish, Rankin or Murray.

[Peevemor]

That's a pretty revealing article in the Scotsman. I've never read that before but it certainly gives an indication as to how difficult Collins job was at the time. £8.8m of talent out with next to nowt to spend on players + curbed by a strict wage structure which made the Manager's job impossible. Nae wonder he walked.


I dont get this next to nowt on players bit. He had as much and probably more than the orevious managers as far back ad McLiesh.'he spent his budget on AOB Maka Kerr etc etc then when the board wont give more money to dpend over and above he complsins thst its a too tough s job and walks.

Exactly. If we take the article as gospel, Hibs had the 4th biggest player budget yet the players were on a relative pittance. It looks like someone's been cherry picking statistics to support their argument.

In addition, would JC's compassionate £200/week rises have kept any of the better players at the club? I doubt it.

[Hibbyradge]

"And it remains a matter of choice. Collins denied he had no alternative but to walk. "There were alternatives. I could have carried on. It was a huge decision for me, a tough decision but I felt that with the resources I had available I had taken the team as far as I could. We could all bite the bullet but it makes the job all the more difficult and it's hard enough as it is."

[SMAXXA]

"And it remains a matter of choice. Collins denied he had no alternative but to walk. "There were alternatives. I could have carried on. It was a huge decision for me, a tough decision but I felt that with the resources I had available I had taken the team as far as I could. We could all bite the bullet but it makes the job all the more difficult and it's hard enough as it is."

Does that answer what my point was earlier? Dont get me wrong I dont want this to turn into a JC beating etc just interested to hear if fellow fans think this way?

[The Falcon]

Overspent? How much did he overspend from £8.8m?

Whether the income was earmarked for the debt and training ground or not that's totally irrelevent to the Manager if he's had his team decimated and only has the biscuit tin to sign players. FFS the guy would have had to perform a miracle to keep performances up. Despite this handicap Collins WLD record was far superior to his Managerial successors as the statos have indicated on this thread.

He was not responsible for any of the players sold for that amount of money. He inherited the talent that others signed and developed. Which of his signings did we sell on, or even which of his signings was even sought after? He was fortunate to inherit the squad he did from Mowbray. Had he inherited a team that was in as bad shape as Yogi's or now then it would be a different story but he inherited a team approaching it's height. Thats my opinion.

I dont really want to get into a Collins slag fest but he has shown nothing since that would indicate he has the ability that some seem to credit him with. And it genuinely saddens me to say that.

[Ray_]

I dont get this next to nowt on players bit. He had as much and probably more than the orevious managers as far back ad McLiesh.'he spent his budget on AOB Maka Kerr etc etc then when the board wont give more money to dpend over and above he complsins thst its a too tough s job and walks.

I think the whole point was he was given the cash to replace thoroughbreds with jackass's & that's exactly what the team & therefore fans got, which has brought us four absolutely diabolical years since.

[Peevemor]

I think the whole point was he was given the cash to replace thoroughbreds with jackass's & that's exactly what the team & therefore fans got, which has brought us four absolutely diabolical years since.

But he should have done better with the money he did have. His signings were exceptionally bad.

[huggie1875]

He was not responsible for any of the players sold for that amount of money. He inherited the talent that others signed and developed. Which of his signings did we sell on, or even which of his signings was even sought after? He was fortunate to inherit the squad he did from Mowbray. Had he inherited a team that was in as bad shape as Yogi's or now then it would be a different story but he inherited a team approaching it's height. Thats my opinion.

I dont really want to get into a Collins slag fest but he has shown nothing since that would indicate he has the ability that some seem to credit him with. And it genuinely saddens me to say that.

:top marks

[Haymaker]

:agree:

Once again, the attitude of many towards who was one of the few Hibs managers to win a trophy leaves me stunned and saddened. Collins was FAR from perfect, but he was a young manager learning his trade and who managed to win a trophy only a few months after becoming manager. Yes we had a bad run after the CIS Final and in the second quarter of the 2007-08 season - but it's incredible how people are happy for these relative failures to define his tenure, rather than the more obvious cup win (including beating Hearts on route to winning the trophy, only a few months after they had done the same to us), and 6 wins and 3 draws out of the opening 9 games of the following season (including away wins at Tynie and Ibrox, and a home win at Parkhead).

Let's have a little perspective here - when JC resigned, our league record was: -

P 17 W 7 D 6 L 4

27 points from 17 games - 1.6 points per game, enough to secure us 60 points over the course of the season (Motherwell finished 3rd on 60 points). People will rightly point out that we had won only one out of his last 8 in charge (W 1 D 3 L 4) but 3 of those defeats were away to Motherwell, Aberdeen and ICT respectively - only the home defeat to St. Mirren could truly be considered a very bad result.

It's also worth bearing in mind that for 3 of the 6 draws we had had up to JC's departure, we came from 2 goals down (we also came back from 2 goals down to win against Gretna), meaning that we secured 6 points from losing positions in those four games - when have we been as resilient as that since? Yes, we were on a bad run when JC left, but to imply that we were only going one way is pure conjecture. The upturn in form when Mixu took over (the best spell of his time at Hibs, largely with JC's team, obviously) came from 6 wins from 7 games, where the fixtures were home games Gretna, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell and Killie, with an away game at Falkirk too - I would have fancied JC to have got us results in those games too.

I appreciate that that is also conjecture on my part, but there is more evidence to suggest that JC's side were having a bad spell (which Hibs team doesn't?), rather than us being headed towards the bottom of the league. Colllins had 7 wins out of 17 games - we won another 7 out of the remaining 21 games that season, so Collins' time was easily the best. The fact that Mixu had us in the top 6 weeks before the split, owed a lot to the great early form of JC's Hibs team.

I would like to make it clear that I thought Collins' reasons for walking away from Hibs were nonsense, there's no way that the targets that he was after would have been realistic for us - I also remember the dodgy signings and the incidents like playing McCann at centre half at Pittodrie - however, Collins deserves a lot better than many on here are giving him. Given how much time some were prepared to give Calderwood's team to gel and come good, it's incredible that people can state with such certainty that JC's 2007-08 team were just a flash in the pan being found out, as opposed to a decent team going through a sticky patch.

We will never know one way or the other now - but there's no way that Collins left us in as bad a way as many on here are stating. An overall record of P 54 W23 D 15 L 16 and a 5-1 national cup final win means he should ALWAYS be highly regarded, and well remembered.

Only bad thing we can say about the man was his eye for a player. He sold some quality and couldnt replace them, which to be honest is a very difficult task at our level.

His ideas are modern and what the club needs to embrace to continue forward. The man may well be arrogant in a football sense but IMHO, not one of the players under him or since are worthy of lacing the mans boots. He has achieved more than most Scottish footballers in the past 25 years?

[Hibbyradge]

Only bad thing we can say about the man was his eye for a player. He sold some quality and couldnt replace them, which to be honest is a very difficult task at our level.

His ideas are modern and what the club needs to embrace to continue forward. The man may well be arrogant in a football sense but IMHO, not one of the players under him or since are worthy of lacing the mans boots. He has achieved more than most Scottish footballers in the past 25 years?

He didn't buy a single player who was half decent. Not one.

That's a crucial skill. He realised that he couldn't work with average players and he walked. Fair enough, but he wasn't cut out for the Hibs manager's job.

[SMAXXA]

Only bad thing we can say about the man was his eye for a player. He sold some quality and couldnt replace them, which to be honest is a very difficult task at our level.

His ideas are modern and what the club needs to embrace to continue forward. The man may well be arrogant in a football sense but IMHO, not one of the players under him or since are worthy of lacing the mans boots. He has achieved more than most Scottish footballers in the past 25 years?

For me its relative mate, have we had many decent centre halfs since yogi, frank, have we had many centre forwards since Mixu you know what I mean. JC is a player I loved yet a manager I well, still cant say either way.

Maybe he should go for the top job in the SFA, for me its a bigger cultural change then just trying to make Hibs better with his ways and philosophy, after all he has been a great ambassador for Scotiish football as a player and im sue he comands alot of respect from alot of quarters.

[Haymaker]

He didn't buy a single player who was half decent. Not one.

That's a crucial skill. He realised that he couldn't work with average players and he walked. Fair enough, but he wasn't cut out for the Hibs manager's job.


I didnt say he did buy one, most of them were gash. I did defend Maka for quite a while, I admit. Thought he still had something but alas! :greengrin

You say he couldnt work with average players but as pointed out by someone else of this thread he still had a very good record AFTER he sold and bought the rubbish...

His eye for talent was poor, I admit that, but the man had us playing the best football I remember and we seemed fit and hungry. Something we have lost and never look like reaching again.

[Haymaker]

For me its relative mate, have we had many decent centre halfs since yogi, frank, have we had many centre forwards since Mixu you know what I mean. JC is a player I loved yet a manager I well, still cant say either way.

Maybe he should go for the top job in the SFA, for me its a bigger cultural change then just trying to make Hibs better with his ways and philosophy, after all he has been a great ambassador for Scotiish football as a player and im sue he comands alot of respect from alot of quarters.

The SFA certainly needs a make over. And the ideals that JC follows should be in concrete.

[greenlex]

I think the whole point was he was given the cash to replace thoroughbreds with jackass's & that's exactly what the team & therefore fans got, which has brought us four absolutely diabolical years since. My point is he had moreof a budget than prevoius and they spent it better. Were we a botter team with Boozy Sheils Murphy Jones Zemamma Benji and Hogg?

[HFC 0-7]

But he should have done better with the money he did have. His signings were exceptionally bad.

Maybe true, however, he still managed to have something like a 42% win rate after the good players had gone and he had signed the bad ones. He also beat Hearts, Rangers and Celtic with all these bad players. So to summary the club sold a lot of the best players, he brings in rubbish players, his man management is terrible yet he can still have a record of 42% win rate and still beat Hearts Celtic and Rangers. Peoples view on Collins is definately tainted because he left the club. With his record in mind, if Petrie had backed him a little further for a couple of other players maybe we would have had the makings of a team that could challenge for cups and europe every year.

[Hibbyradge]

Maybe true, however, he still managed to have something like a 42% win rate after the good players had gone and he had signed the bad ones. He also beat Hearts, Rangers and Celtic with all these bad players. So to summary the club sold a lot of the best players, he brings in rubbish players, his man management is terrible yet he can still have a record of 42% win rate and still beat Hearts Celtic and Rangers. Peoples view on Collins is definately tainted because he left the club. With his record in mind, if Petrie had backed him a little further for a couple of other players maybe we would have had the makings of a team that could challenge for cups and europe every year.

As well as not being able to spot a player, I thought the football we played under Collins was generally poor, that's why I wasn't particularly upset when he left.

I remember posting a thread entitled "What's happened to our team" when he was the manager because I wasn't enjoying the games. Little did I know, right enough!

It's not very fair that he's getting such a mauling on here now, but I think that's just the reaction to the folk who think he can do no wrong and aring use the whole episode as another excuse to berate RP.

[Andy74]

Well you're calling JC an out and out liar then. This was his interview with Scotland on Sunday a few days after he departed:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/beuzelin_jones_and_murphy_to_follow_collins_out_of _hibs_1_1428565

It's all in there.


And this is consistent with JC's version of events.

Fact is that RP was embarrassed by JC's exit and how outspoken he was able to be given that he had not signed a confidentiality agreement with the club to keep him from speaking to the press.

I'm a big fan of JC but his behaviour and his version of events around when he resigned were not the same as Petrie and the Board were suggesting and there was more in there to back up the Petrie chain of events.

Rod was very clear that JC walked before he had even had the chance to talk about the budget. When he resigned he was again given an opportunity to come and tell the board what he wanted and he refused.

Given Hibs spent well just a few weeks later does suggest that money was there.

Time has obviously changed some perceptions but at the time it very much looked like JC was struggling and chose to walk to save face.

He signed badly and even if we brought in big money for players that doesn't excuse not working well within his budget.

Guys like Murphy, Boozy, Benji, Shiles, Killen etc had all been brought in previously for next to nothing. He actually got decent cash to use in comparison and failed to spot any similar level of bargain.

[jdships]

He didn't buy a single player who was half decent. Not one.

That's a crucial skill. He realised that he couldn't work with average players and he walked. Fair enough, but he wasn't cut out for the Hibs manager's job.



That for me says a lot and is as near the truth as we, the supporters, will probably ever get :agree:
Man management can be a difficult skill to learn .
Most good managers have it naturally as players have football skills .

[seven nowt]

I've Read the Scotsman article. If that's the reason Collins left, why would he be interested in returning?

[HFC 0-7]

As well as not being able to spot a player, I thought the football we played under Collins was generally poor, that's why I wasn't particularly upset when he left.

I remember posting a thread entitled "What's happened to our team" when he was the manager because I wasn't enjoying the games. Little did I know, right enough!

It's not very fair that he's getting such a mauling on here now, but I think that's just the reaction to the folk who think he can do no wrong and aring use the whole episode as another excuse to berate RP.

Personally I dont think either party is blameless. I think one of the causes of peoples problem with JC is that the team, as an entertainment option, dropped as you said in your post, however, this was always going to be the case when replacing quality players at a fraction of the cost. The fans didnt move in their expectations of what the team would output in terms of entertainment, however, we were still getting results. We are never going to get a finished article in terms of manager so we will need to accept a manager that needs to learn as he goes. My points I have been trying to make througout this thread is that JC had is flaws but still managed to get the best out of players, even the rubbish ones he bought. He wanted to change the mentality of the players, something we have been moaning on here for ages about and to be fair he has been the only one that seemed to be succeeding. We are basically shouting for manager to have certain traits and when looking at Collins the only one he didnt have was an eye for a player. If we got someone along side him that did we could be a good team. FWIW I dont think JC would ever come back, but I find it hard and unfair that so many dismissed him as a failed manager. I would love a cup, 42% win rate with good players, 42% win rate with bad players. Players getting the backsides kicked when deserved and wins over Hearts Celtic and Rangers in a season.

[bawheid]

There's a lot being made about signings, and particularly the "bad" ones Collins made.

Really though, how many "good" signings have we made since 2007? Riordan, Murray, Miller, Bamba, Stokes, O'Connor have been good signings, but those were pretty obvious and the managers at the time didn't really need to go and scout them.

The last manager to make truly "good" signings, i.e. go out and find an unknown who then becomes a favourite, was Tony Mowbray. Who did he have as his chief scout? When did the chief scout leave? When did the good imaginitave signings dry up? :wink:

[Ray_]

My point is he had moreof a budget than prevoius and they spent it better. Were we a botter team with Boozy Sheils Murphy Jones Zemamma Benji and Hogg?

The post below says it for me, he had to do with the loss of, for us, very big players & he still done a lot better than those who followed.

[brog]

I'm sure JC, like everyone has his faults & some, like his supposed arrogance & inability to work with less gifted players have been well documented. I've only met John twice but on both occasions he was charming, humble & extremely knowledgeable about football throughout Europe. From that perspective I'm slightly biased but IMO we as Hibs fans owe JC a huge vote of thanks & not just for that wonderful day at Hampden.
1. The sale of the twins - the supposed financial genius RP was going to sell both for less than we ended up getting for SB. Tony Mowbray started & JC completed the task of putting SB on a long term & better paid contract thereby ensuring we got full value.
2. Fletch - similar to above, RP was extremely reluctant to give him an improved contract & JC came close to walking then. JC, supported by others on the Board finally prevailed & result was income of £3.5mm when we would only have been entitled to development costs if Fletch had walked at end of his original contract.
Someone asked what JC had to do with our income of £8.8mm. I estimate JC on his own earned Hibs about £5mm, enough to pay for East Mains. I'm sure that was a major source of his frustration with his limited budget.
Sorry to be so lengthy but finally does anyone seriously think JC, in his 1st management role came in & decided to sign AOB & BK? These were both Tommy Craig recommendations & the only other player we spent money on in year 1, Maka, was also in the pipeline before JC's arrival. I believe another prominent ex Hibby may have been involved in that deal ( for well meaning reasons ).