Poppies on football tops

[1two]

I'm neither in the pro or anti poppy brigade. I think that individuals wearing a poppy is a nice touch, I don't wear one but don't have a reason for not doing so. Football teams with poppies on the jerseys are much the same, it's a nice touch, nothing more.

If hibs decided to not add a poppy to the strip one year I wouldn't really care
Different if they made a big thing and felt they had to release a statement why they were or weren't but I wouldnt even think about it otherwise.

I just cant stand pointless arguements about why teams should or shouldnt wear them. Poppies have been used since 1920s. Why have the English FA waited so long to make it a big deal about having them on the kit?
It embarrassing and has nothing at all to do with the poppies true meaning.

The arguement should have been made 80-90 years ago, not now

[Hibbyradge]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15666769.stm

[1two]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15666769.stm

Never seen that.
Its pretty pathetic really.

FIFA's stance is that there should be no political/religious connections with Football? Why the **** is cameron getting involved, other than for his own political gain?

[Wembley67]

Rules are rules. Why should this be any different?

As an article I read rightly states, it could open up doors to all sorts of arguments by other countries/clubs.

[O'Rourke3]

Never seen that.
Its pretty pathetic really.

FIFA's stance is that there should be no political/religious connections with Football? Why the **** is cameron getting involved, other than for his own political gain?

Because England were "cheated by those dirty foreigners" at FIFA out of a World Cup finals, so every chance to jump on and try and give them a kicking will be used until such time as they get a tourney. It will be something like a technical issue in that the strip which has changed, wasn't pre approved for use and if England get the go ahead, every other team will use that as an excuse to get in other changes. In a way they are right, but there should be a case for somethings like this. What the English FA fail to see is that the Poppy Remembrance is a British thing. Can you imagine if the friendly would have been against Germany?

[HibsMax]

I go back and forth on this. I appreciate people wanting to show their support for something (like the NFL and breast cancer or the Patriots and Martha Kraft) but I also appreciate the floodgates that can open. I feel it's maybe safer to keep the strips / uniforms totally "clean", just to avoid such issues in the future even though I know this will upset some people. Maybe they keep the strips "clean" and just have some sort of ceremony before the match?

[Hibbyradge]

What the English FA fail to see is that the Poppy Remembrance is a British thing.

Well, not exactly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15637074

[ginger_rice]

What the English FA fail to see is that the Poppy Remembrance is a British thing. Can you imagine if the friendly would have been against Germany?


I go back and forth on this. I appreciate people wanting to show their support for something (like the NFL and breast cancer or the Patriots and Martha Kraft) but I also appreciate the floodgates that can open. I feel it's maybe safer to keep the strips / uniforms totally "clean", just to avoid such issues in the future even though I know this will upset some people. Maybe they keep the strips "clean" and just have some sort of ceremony before the match?

Actually the Poppy is much more widespread than that, although it has to be said that the majority of countries who do go in for it are Commonwealth countries, the French wear a wee blue floo'er can't remember what it's called although that doesn't have the same prevalence as the poppy, i also recall meeting survivors of the Bismark in Wilhelmshaven IIRC some of them were wearing oak leaves.

Now having said that, I also believe that international sports shirts should be kept clear, FIFA have I believe sanctioned a minutes silence.

Personally, and being an ex-serviceman who has lost mates in combat, I think I preferred it when remembrance was done in a far more dignified manner, it's almost like now you "have" to wear a poppy or you are being disloyal, a bit like next week it'll be you must have your legs waxed in public it's children in need! Who was it on channel 4 spoke about poppy fascists?

[son of haggart]

Actually the Poppy is much more widespread than that, although it has to be said that the majority of countries who do go in for it are Commonwealth countries, the French wear a wee blue floo'er can't remember what it's called although that doesn't have the same prevalence as the poppy, i also recall meeting survivors of the Bismark in Wilhelmshaven IIRC some of them were wearing oak leaves.

Now having said that, I also believe that international sports shirts should be kept clear, FIFA have I believe sanctioned a minutes silence.

Personally, and being an ex-serviceman who has lost mates in combat, I think I preferred it when remembrance was done in a far more dignified manner, it's almost like now you "have" to wear a poppy or you are being disloyal, a bit like next week it'll be you must have your legs waxed in public it's children in need! Who was it on channel 4 spoke about poppy fascists?



I agree on all counts. To me poppies, songs and flags are for remembrance services or to be worn without excessive demonstration. It's all getting a bit divise rather than unifying.

[Cabbage East]

You don't need a poppy to pay respects to the dead.

[ginger_rice]

I agree on all counts. To me poppies, songs and flags are for remembrance services or to be worn without excessive demonstration. It's all getting a bit divise rather than unifying.

I must be mellowing in my old age....I find myself agreeing with a Jambo :wink::greengrin

[ginger_rice]

You don't need a poppy to pay respects to the dead.

Absolutely correct....just as if you are anti remembrance for whatever reason then you just politely stay away.

[O'Rourke3]

Well, not exactly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15637074

Cheers, probably remembered some myth from school :greengrin

[Makaveli]

FIFA: Sorry, no political messages/symbols on the shirts.

English FA: But it's not political! See, here's our prime minister... he'll tell you!

[ginger_rice]

Appears FIFA have kind of backed down http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15666769.stm

[Hibbyradge]

Appears FIFA have kind of backed down http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15666769.stm

See post 2. :wink:

[ginger_rice]

See post 2. :wink:

Ach that's just me as usual never read the small print :embarrass

[jdships]

You don't need a poppy to pay respects to the dead.

Agree but at the same time , from a personal point of view, because I lived through WW2 I like to make an effort to show my respect . to those who made the sacrifice
As the saying goes " To each his own " !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[clerriehibs]

Seems to me the wearing of a poppy over the past few years has become much more politicised ... and I believe that's been done on purpose by the government of whatever hue, to discourage anti-war (of the Iraq/Afghanistan variety) sentiment.

To me, the poppy used to be of huge significance, remembering primarily servicemen & women who died in world wars. I believe any serviceman needs support, but the poppy now seems much more about recent events - and those recent events haven't really been about ensuring our freedom. Hence the need for the government to discourage dissent by promoting the poppy more than ever.

And I SO believe that if a government feels the need to send anyone to war, then the government should bear the full brunt of any subsequent associated costs, and injured service personnel should most definitely NOT be dependent on charity.

[Dashing Bob S]

Actually the Poppy is much more widespread than that, although it has to be said that the majority of countries who do go in for it are Commonwealth countries, the French wear a wee blue floo'er can't remember what it's called although that doesn't have the same prevalence as the poppy, i also recall meeting survivors of the Bismark in Wilhelmshaven IIRC some of them were wearing oak leaves.

Now having said that, I also believe that international sports shirts should be kept clear, FIFA have I believe sanctioned a minutes silence.

Personally, and being an ex-serviceman who has lost mates in combat, I think I preferred it when remembrance was done in a far more dignified manner, it's almost like now you "have" to wear a poppy or you are being disloyal, a bit like next week it'll be you must have your legs waxed in public it's children in need! Who was it on channel 4 spoke about poppy fascists?

Great post. It's so sad that bodies like the Football Associations have to hijack things like this. Them, and poppy fascists like them, have turned an honorable individual gesture into some sinister psuedo-sectarian symbol of belonging/anti-belonging. I now have nothing to do with poppies as I hate this way this has steadfastly been politically appropriated, more so with each year.

People have remembered for generations in their own respectful way without the corporate/governmental thought police or the professional ghoulish drama queens sticking it in our faces. Some will disagree, but to me the poppy has now become a symbol of all that is cynical, manipulative and corrupt about modern society. So they can stick it.

[Sergey]

Great post. It's so sad that bodies like the Football Associations have to hijack things like this. Them, and poppy fascists like them, have turned an honorable individual gesture into some sinister psuedo-sectarian symbol of belonging/anti-belonging. I now have nothing to do with poppies as I hate this way this has steadfastly been politically appropriated, more so with each year.

People have remembered for generations in their own respectful way without the corporate/governmental thought police or the professional ghoulish drama queens sticking it in our faces. Some will disagree, but to me the poppy has now become a symbol of all that is cynical, manipulative and corrupt about modern society. So they can stick it.

Bob - For the bargain price of £49.99 you can buy a 'poppy' Yam top for your somewhat slow neighbour. This is what is said on their on-line shop:


The shirt has the traditional poppy embroidered onto it and the Hearts crest of that time in memory of those who lost their lives in World War One.

They won that one, Bob.

[jdships]

Great post. It's so sad that bodies like the Football Associations have to hijack things like this. Them, and poppy fascists like them, have turned an honorable individual gesture into some sinister psuedo-sectarian symbol of belonging/anti-belonging. I now have nothing to do with poppies as I hate this way this has steadfastly been politically appropriated, more so with each year.

People have remembered for generations in their own respectful way without the corporate/governmental thought police or the professional ghoulish drama queens sticking it in our faces. Some will disagree, but to me the poppy has now become a symbol of all that is cynical, manipulative and corrupt about modern society. So they can stick it.


That is your opinion which , although I find it rather offensive , you are entitled to express
To a great number of us older people who lived through WW2 and lost loved ones the Poppy is a tangible way of remembering those who did not come back .
I imagine you were not alive then ?
I will continue to wear my poppy with pride regardless !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is my opinion

[PeeKay]

I think it speaks volumes that while all this arguement about poppies is going on, an ex-serviceman and his wife have been driven to take their own lives because they could no longer face the grinding poverty that was their lot. If we are not prepared to give a dignified existence to our ex-servicemen and women while they are alive then wearing a poppy to honour their dead comrades is an empty gesture.

[lapsedhibee]

While not wishing to become embroiled in the fine detail of arguments about poppy fascism (copyright Jon Snow, Ch 4), I would just like to enquire whether Dave Cameron and Prince William might like to stay the **** out of fitba matters which have nothing at all to do with them. FIFA should have told them both to GTF.

[joebakerforever]

I buy a poppy as the monies raised are used to assist ex servicemen in need of help.

I would hope that the likes of Bob S would realise that they could still contribute to this worthy cause, without being obliged to wear a poppy.

I do find it ironic that a Swiss based organisation (FIFA) is dictating the terms.

Remember the Swiss have let others fight for universal freedom against the likes of Adolf Hitle,r while they have profited from wheeling and dealing during such conflicts.

[Cabbage East]

Agree but at the same time , from a personal point of view, because I lived through WW2 I like to make an effort to show my respect . to those who made the sacrifice
As the saying goes " To each his own " !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aye but that has nothing to do with football...

[francobaresi]

I'm neither in the pro or anti poppy brigade. I think that individuals wearing a poppy is a nice touch, I don't wear one but don't have a reason for not doing so. Football teams with poppies on the jerseys are much the same, it's a nice touch, nothing more.

If hibs decided to not add a poppy to the strip one year I wouldn't really care
Different if they made a big thing and felt they had to release a statement why they were or weren't but I wouldnt even think about it otherwise.

I just cant stand pointless arguements about why teams should or shouldnt wear them. Poppies have been used since 1920s. Why have the English FA waited so long to make it a big deal about having them on the kit?
It embarrassing and has nothing at all to do with the poppies true meaning.

The arguement should have been made 80-90 years ago, not now

As like many others on here I am an ex serviceman.. Now more than ever we have a huge commitment to support our troops and remember those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, friends included... Whether you believe in the rights or wrongs of political influence and military action is irrelevant, the military do not decide where they are going and what duties they are going to conduct.. That's left to Whitehall and the beaurocrats... We have servants who put there lives on the line, rightly or wrongly, to preserve our freedom and way of life... I for one have no problem with England or any other team wearing a poppy.... It represents us as a nation and we should be proud of what our people have given to preserve our way of life... Doubt anyone on here hasn't had any member of their family serve in the British Military...

Wear it with pride and remember...

Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense....

[francobaresi]

Aye but that has nothing to do with football...

You mean nothing to do with the teams that signed up en masse during the Great War... I don't want to use MacCrae as an example...

[clerriehibs]

As like many others on here I am an ex serviceman.. Now more than ever we have a huge commitment to support our troops and remember those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, friends included... Whether you believe in the rights or wrongs of political influence and military action is irrelevant, the military do not decide where they are going and what duties they are going to conduct.. That's left to Whitehall and the beaurocrats... We have servants who put there lives on the line, rightly or wrongly, to preserve our freedom and way of life... I for one have no problem with England or any other team wearing a poppy.... It represents us as a nation and we should be proud of what our people have given to preserve our way of life... Doubt anyone on here hasn't had any member of their family serve in the British Military...

Wear it with pride and remember...

Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense....

Now more than ever? You sure?

[jdships]

Aye but that has nothing to do with football...

Why not ?
Respect is something that comes from and is given to people from all walks of life .
Think about it in relation to yourself - you expect respect from people you work and mix with

[jdships]

As like many others on here I am an ex serviceman.. Now more than ever we have a huge commitment to support our troops and remember those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, friends included... Whether you believe in the rights or wrongs of political influence and military action is irrelevant, the military do not decide where they are going and what duties they are going to conduct.. That's left to Whitehall and the beaurocrats... We have servants who put there lives on the line, rightly or wrongly, to preserve our freedom and way of life... I for one have no problem with England or any other team wearing a poppy.... It represents us as a nation and we should be proud of what our people have given to preserve our way of life... Doubt anyone on here hasn't had any member of their family serve in the British Military...

Wear it with pride and remember...

Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense....

:thumbsup::agree:

[monktonharp]

You mean nothing to do with the teams that signed up en masse during the Great War... I don't want to use MacCrae as an example... why even mention it then? there are a lot on here (non-ex-servicemen) that find the glorification of that particular "great" war, bloody offensive so dont try and shed guilt onto us that feel the other way.

[Dunbar Hibee]

Would you let the German team wear swastikas on their tops?

[Dashing Bob S]

I buy a poppy as the monies raised are used to assist ex servicemen in need of help.

I would hope that the likes of Bob S would realise that they could still contribute to this worthy cause, without being obliged to wear a poppy.

I do find it ironic that a Swiss based organisation (FIFA) is dictating the terms.

Remember the Swiss have let others fight for universal freedom against the likes of Adolf Hitle,r while they have profited from wheeling and dealing during such conflicts.

Yes. I started making a cash donation about four years ago.

[Hibbyradge]

Would you let the German team wear swastikas on their tops?

Is that a serious question? :rolleyes:

What do you think Poppies commemorate compared to bleeding swaztikas?

[Dashing Bob S]

Bob - For the bargain price of £49.99 you can buy a 'poppy' Yam top for your somewhat slow neighbour. This is what is said on their on-line shop:



They won that one, Bob.



But only on penalties, and if they hadn't had Craig Gordon, the Gretnans might have sneaked it.

[francobaresi]

Would you let the German team wear swastikas on their tops?

My my some people really don't engage before posting...

[Hibbyradge]

My my some people really don't engage before posting...

Ah, but he does...

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?220824-Di-Canio&p=2981762&viewfull=1#post2981762

[Dunbar Hibee]

Ah, but he does...

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?220824-Di-Canio&p=2981762&viewfull=1#post2981762

Any chance of my bait back pal?

[francobaresi]

why even mention it then? there are a lot on here (non-ex-servicemen) that find the glorification of that particular "great" war, bloody offensive so dont try and shed guilt onto us that feel the other way.

It's not the glorification of war my friend, I for one abhor the thought of it having served in one conflict but support our troops doing a job for people like you... If you think it's about trying to shed guilt then you my friend have a guilty conscience... Let's not get into a bun fight because the question was about poppies on football tops... It has a relevance, if you can't appreciate it then that's fine I understand not everyone agrees and that is your fundamental right under the free society our grandfathers, fathers, brothers and mates have fought and died for...

[CropleyisGod]

Absolutely. The swastika being a well known and recognised symbol of remembrance and sacrifice. You are now entitled to have a picture of an a**ehole ironed onto your Hibs top.

[Hibbyradge]

Any chance of my bait back pal?

Aye, very good.

Pal.

[The Harp Awakes]

As like many others on here I am an ex serviceman.. Now more than ever we have a huge commitment to support our troops and remember those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, friends included... Whether you believe in the rights or wrongs of political influence and military action is irrelevant, the military do not decide where they are going and what duties they are going to conduct.. That's left to Whitehall and the beaurocrats... We have servants who put there lives on the line, rightly or wrongly, to preserve our freedom and way of life... I for one have no problem with England or any other team wearing a poppy.... It represents us as a nation and we should be proud of what our people have given to preserve our way of life... Doubt anyone on here hasn't had any member of their family serve in the British Military...

Wear it with pride and remember...

Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense....

My father served in the Royal Navy in WW2 and my Grandad served in the Royal Field Artillery in WW1. My great Uncle died in the trenches in WW1 at the age of 17. I'm no different from many folk posting on here who have similar hereditry I reckon.

I used to wear a poppy up until ~ 5 years ago. As a kid the poppy was seen as a silent tribute to those who had given their life to preserve our freedom and rightly so. Sadly today the poppy seems to have been hi-jacked for political reasons by a very vocal element. Why now is it appropriate to display poppies on football shirts when this has never happended in previous decades? What's next, the ROI national football team wearing shamrocks on their jerseys to commemorate the founders of their country who were assasinated by British soldiers? Cameron's and Prince William's intervention today is very dangerous and I feel the floodgates are now open to allow political symbolism in Sport from a host of countries, e.g Palestine and Israel.

[Hibercelona]

My father served in the Royal Navy in WW2 and my Grandad served in the Royal Field Artillery in WW1. My great Uncle died in the trenches in WW1 at the age of 17. I'm no different from many folk posting on here who have similar hereditry I reckon.

I used to wear a poppy up until ~ 5 years ago. As a kid the poppy was seen as a silent tribute to those who had given their life to preserve our freedom and rightly so. Sadly today the poppy seems to have been hi-jacked for political reasons by a very vocal element. Why now is it appropriate to display poppies on football shirts when this has never happended in previous decades? What's next, the ROI national football team wearing shamrocks on their jerseys to commemorate the founders of their country who were assasinated by British soldiers? Cameron's and Prince William's intervention today is very dangerous and I feel the floodgates are now open to allow political symbolism in Sport from a host of countries, e.g Palestine and Israel.

:top marks

Like you say, why the big hype about them now?

IMO, they are being used more as a goverment tool now to support war propaganda. Anything to try and encourage more people to "get involved". Its also no coincidence that we see far more adds on the TV now trying to encourage people to "sign up".

War is a terrible thing. We should continue to respect those lost in the past and help out those who have suffered or are currently suffering. But we should also be trying to promote a war-free future, even if it does seem unrealistic right now. We like so many other nations are going in the wrong direction.

[Lucius Apuleius]

:top marks

Like you say, why the big hype about them now?

IMO, they are being used more as a goverment tool now to support war propaganda. Anything to try and encourage more people to "get involved". Its also no coincidence that we see far more adds on the TV now trying to encourage people to "sign up".

War is a terrible thing. We should continue to respect those lost in the past and help out those who have suffered or are currently suffering. But we should also be trying to promote a war-free future, even if it does seem unrealistic right now. We like so many other nations are going in the wrong direction.

Problem with a war free society is over population. Wars are needed now and then to try and keep the population to a manageable level.

[dalkeith stu]

No poppies were worn when England played Brazil on 14 November 2009 so why all the fuss now?

[s.a.m]

]My father served in the Royal Navy in WW2 and my Grandad served in the Royal Field Artillery in WW1. My great Uncle died in the trenches in WW1 at the age of 17. I'm no different from many folk posting on here who have similar hereditry I reckon.

I used to wear a poppy up until ~ 5 years ago. As a kid the poppy was seen as a silent tribute to those who had given their life to preserve our freedom and rightly so. Sadly today the poppy seems to have been hi-jacked for political reasons by a very vocal element. Why now is it appropriate to display poppies on football shirts when this has never happended in previous decades? What's next, the ROI national football team wearing shamrocks on their jerseys to commemorate the founders of their country who were assasinated by British soldiers? Cameron's and Prince William's intervention today is very dangerous and I feel the floodgates are now open to allow political symbolism in Sport from a host of countries, e.g Palestine and Israel.

Similar position myself. My grandfather (who fought in both wars, and lost two of his brothers) would be spinning in his grave at the thought of the symbol of remembrance being cheapened in this way, apart from anything else.

FIFA preside over a global organisation, with many of its members in conflict with each other, or with cultural differences which are difficult to reconcile. I think their position on symbols on shirts is entirely sensible.

[cocopops1875]

:top marks

Like you say, why the big hype about them now?

IMO, they are being used more as a goverment tool now to support war propaganda. Anything to try and encourage more people to "get involved". Its also no coincidence that we see far more adds on the TV now trying to encourage people to "sign up".

War is a terrible thing. We should continue to respect those lost in the past and help out those who have suffered or are currently suffering. But we should also be trying to promote a war-free future, even if it does seem unrealistic right now. We like so many other nations are going in the wrong direction.
If I recall the poppys in football thing started getting big in last few seasons as there was a perceived lack of understanding about what the symbol meant, it had been left behind by a generation and this had massively effected sales. So the powers that be have been trying to bring it back and educated people as to why its still important to support poppy day

[Makaveli]

Poppies and the "support the troops" message are being used for propaganda purposes by a vocal element of the British establishment (government, tabloids, visual media). This isn't to say they aren't worthy causes, but the fact that anyone even questioning the poppy's sudden ubiquity is quickly shot down with nationalistic fervor and reminded about "our dead" shows it's working well. The poppy campaign has been hijacked given the importance of linking current misadventures to previous wars.

Until 4 or 5 years ago I'd have said we were above the mindless "USA, USA, USA" type reaction to any mention of war; I fear we are now on their level. Here, as there, it has become impossible to raise questions over the causes and effects of a war without being shouted down as disrespectful to those brave men fighting for our freedom. Boak.

[Beefster]

Would you let the German team wear swastikas on their tops?

Fail of the week.

[H18sry]

Why has this all surfaced now? Why when Scotland and England have played around the date of the 11/11 have they never requested to wear a poppy on there shirts, why all the proper-gander now? Is it because the FA think they were hard done too in the world cup announcement ? International football has been played around the 11th of November for tens of years as that week is a recognised international date.