The FIFA Poppy Ban

[Betty Boop]

Apparently the FIFA Poppy Ban is all the fault of the Germans. (according to the Daily Mail) Are the rules not the same for everybody regarding symbols on football shirts ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2058356/England-poppy-ban-case-upset-Germans.html

[khib70]

Apparently the FIFA Poppy Ban is all the fault of the Germans. (according to the Daily Mail) Are the rules not the same for everybody regarding symbols on football shirts ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2058356/England-poppy-ban-case-upset-Germans.html
Typical xenophobic Daily Mail bollox. They're simultaneously still fighting WW2 and forgetting their enthusiastic support for Hitler and Mosley in the 1930's. I'm surprised they haven't blamed the whole thing on asylum seekers.

[Big Ed]

I see our Glorious Leader has entered into the fray, by describing FIFA’s decision as “absurd” and “outrageous” – is there no end to this man’s populist grandstanding?
I seldom have much sympathy for FIFA, but in this case, I think they are right to back their decision because of the real fear of setting a precedent.
If the England team were to be allowed to wear the poppy on their shirts, it would be seen as a respectful gesture by the fans and swiftly forgotten about by all on these shores.
If subsequently, two sides who had recently been, or were about to enter into, military conflict, wore symbols on their shirts whilst playing against each other, it would be FIFA who would have to get involved with the, much more sinister, political fall out.
So either Cameron hasn’t considered any of this or he has, but just wants to appeal to the Daily Mail.
Either way; the man is a fool.

[MartinfaePorty]

Have to agree. It's a no-brainer as far as Cameron is concerned, as he's nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing anything other than fully backing the FA. Regardless what anything thinks of FIFA, they have been steadfast in their stance that football should be apolotical. Whenever a government tries to interfere with a national association they come down on them like a ton of bricks. I'm sure the England team will be able to demonstrate their support in a myriad of other ways.

[Pretty Boy]

Personally I think poppies cause cancer or are a cure for diabetes or had something to do with the death of Diana or are allowing the floodgates to be open for immigrants or steal Sun loungers at the beach......

Sorry I came over all funny after reading the Daily Mail website there.

Hurrah for the blackshirts!

[s.a.m]

I'm with FIFA. The rule is there for a good reason, and I can't see why the F.A. feel the need to start a fight about it (in fact I do, and I suspect it's mischievous, if I was being polite about it). A silence is an appropriate way of paying respect (and IMHO, a more dignified way of supporting this cause than sloganising football shirts.) I'm a poppy wearer myself, and support the work that they do; however, I find the turn that this campaign has taken in the past few years a bit troubling.

[heretoday]

Poppy fascism. Did millions die in the war so that people could get pilloried in the street for not wearing a poppy?

TV personalities wear poppies stuck to their stripey open-necked shirts on Match of the Day and - worse - dance on Strictly wearing poppies.

That doesn't show respect. It shows a flippant attitude. It's undignified.

[Future17]

I see our Glorious Leader has entered into the fray, by describing FIFA’s decision as “absurd” and “outrageous” – is there no end to this man’s populist grandstanding?
I seldom have much sympathy for FIFA, but in this case, I think they are right to back their decision because of the real fear of setting a precedent.
If the England team were to be allowed to wear the poppy on their shirts, it would be seen as a respectful gesture by the fans and swiftly forgotten about by all on these shores.
If subsequently, two sides who had recently been, or were about to enter into, military conflict, wore symbols on their shirts whilst playing against each other, it would be FIFA who would have to get involved with the, much more sinister, political fall out.
So either Cameron hasn’t considered any of this or he has, but just wants to appeal to the Daily Mail.
Either way; the man is a fool.

:topmarks:

Pretty much exactly what I thought.

I knew that, as soon as this became headline news, DC would be in there. Although, as MfP has said, it's a no-brainer for him.

[iwasthere1972]

What is it with England? Rooney, poppies, going in a huff because their 2018 World Cup bid failed. The list is endless. I don't see any of the other home nations moaning about this. This is just an early excuse for when the Spanish wipe the floor with them.

[Sir David Gray]

I fully support the stance that the FA has taken. The poppy is used as a symbol of remembrance for all who have died during war. I cannot understand how anyone could oppose that or how FIFA could be of the opinion that it would threaten their neutrality. Where they made the mistake was when they asked FIFA for permission to put a poppy onto their shirts for their match at the weekend.

If they had simply gone ahead and embroidered a poppy into each of their shirts and taken to the field in them, then what would FIFA really have done about it? My bet is nothing except perhaps warn them not to do it again.

[Leicester Fan]

What is it with England? Rooney, poppies, going in a huff because their 2018 World Cup bid failed. The list is endless. I don't see any of the other home nations moaning about this. This is just an early excuse for when the Spanish wipe the floor with them.

I thought that the Welsh FA also complained?

[Gatecrasher]

The poppy doesn't cover the rule that FIFA are trying to enforce, i also feel its a bit pish that people need to following the rules of one of the most backwards and Corrupt Associations in Football.

I also feel if Scotland Rather than England complained the press would be giving it hell up here as well.

[marinello59]

The poppy doesn't cover the rule that FIFA are trying to enforce, i also feel its a bit pish that people need to following the rules of one of the most backwards and Corrupt Associations in Football.

I also feel if Scotland Rather than England complained the press would be giving it hell up here as well.

Scotland have got round the rule by agreeing with Cypus to wear training tops during the National Anthems when the Poppy can be displayed. A simple and dignified solution............maybe there is hope for the SFA.

[BroxburnHibee]

I fully support the stance that the FA has taken. The poppy is used as a symbol of remembrance for all who have died during war. I cannot understand how anyone could oppose that or how FIFA could be of the opinion that it would threaten their neutrality. Where they made the mistake was when they asked FIFA for permission to put a poppy onto their shirts for their match at the weekend.

If they had simply gone ahead and embroidered a poppy into each of their shirts and taken to the field in them, then what would FIFA really have done about it? My bet is nothing except perhaps warn them not to do it again.

I just don't see what all the fuss is about this.

We remember on armistice day

We remember on remembrance day

We honour and recognise by buying the poppy

It's only recently footballers have wore them on their tops which was a nice gesture but hardly a big deal if its not allowed

Storm over nothing - you would think the PM had far more important things to deal with

[Gatecrasher]

Scotland have got round the rule by agreeing with Cypus to wear training tops during the National Anthems when the Poppy can be displayed. A simple and dignified solution............maybe there is hope for the SFA.

Thats what England have decided to do, But that doesn't mean England shouldn't be allowed to wear poppies on their shirts, especially as clubs do it every year. It just seems very petty from FIFA IMO

[Billie Jo]

Good ol Wills

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15643295.stm

[hibsbollah]

I just don't see what all the fuss is about this.

We remember on armistice day

We remember on remembrance day

We honour and recognise by buying the poppy

It's only recently footballers have wore them on their tops which was a nice gesture but hardly a big deal if its not allowed

Storm over nothing - you would think the PM had far more important things to deal with

England has played internationals in 2001 and 2007 at armistice weekend and no poppies were worn on the shirts. Theres no precedent for this. Whats next, players having to have poppy tattoos?

[Hibbyradge]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15666769.stm

[Betty Boop]

No show without Punch.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/spKp2_5jPd0t6ZDr3uX2b8Q/view.m?id=15&gid=football/2011/nov/09/edl-roof-top-fifa-poppy&cat=sport

[s.a.m]

I just don't see what all the fuss is about this.

We remember on armistice day

We remember on remembrance day

We honour and recognise by buying the poppy

It's only recently footballers have wore them on their tops which was a nice gesture but hardly a big deal if its not allowed

Storm over nothing - you would think the PM had far more important things to deal with

Quite.

[Future17]

No show without Punch.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/spKp2_5jPd0t6ZDr3uX2b8Q/view.m?id=15&gid=football/2011/nov/09/edl-roof-top-fifa-poppy&cat=sport

This sort of thing just demonstrates how Poppies are political symbols, even if they were never intended to be so. Between this and Cameron's involvement, it pretty much justifies the FIFA rule and explains why it is required.

[CFC]

England has played internationals in 2001 and 2007 at armistice weekend and no poppies were worn on the shirts. Theres no precedent for this. Whats next, players having to have poppy tattoos? Thanks for that info. I was arguing against the poppy on football shirt this morning and my argument rested on the fact that I had never previously seen a poppy adorn the England football strip. Youve just solidified my argument!Its just a tabloid driven jingoistic wankfest. Let us remember our war dead the way we always did without this media fuelled circus.

[Beefster]

Have to agree. It's a no-brainer as far as Cameron is concerned, as he's nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing anything other than fully backing the FA. Regardless what anything thinks of FIFA, they have been steadfast in their stance that football should be apolotical. Whenever a government tries to interfere with a national association they come down on them like a ton of bricks. I'm sure the England team will be able to demonstrate their support in a myriad of other ways.

Absolutely. If FIFA hadn't backed down, he can say that it's ridiculous, FIFA's fault etc etc and tap into what the majority of the population thinks. As they did, he gets part of the credit. It also took attention away from the catastrophe going on in the Eurozone and Teresa May's troubles.

[Big Ed]

Absolutely. If FIFA hadn't backed down, he can say that it's ridiculous, FIFA's fault etc etc and tap into what the majority of the population thinks. As they did, he gets part of the credit. It also took attention away from the catastrophe going on in the Eurozone and Teresa May's troubles.

You almost make him sound like a modern day Machiavelli: He is far from that.

[hibsbollah]

I was walking under the Scott Monument this morning, having a moment of quiet contemplation looking at the 11,000 minitiature crosses some with names and messages on, and trying to take in the enormity of it all. Thats what remembrance should be about IMO, not ***** fake outrage from politicians and neo-fascists climbing on FIFAs roof with placards. What a bunch of *****.

[Greentinted]

England has played internationals in 2001 and 2007 at armistice weekend and no poppies were worn on the shirts. Theres no precedent for this. Whats next, players having to have poppy tattoos?


:agree: England v Brazil 14/11/2009

No poppies (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01523/england-v-brazil_1523217c.jpg)

[Leicester Fan]

:agree: England v Brazil 14/11/2009

No poppies (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01523/england-v-brazil_1523217c.jpg)

Personally I think this is a fuss about nothing but what has that got to do with anything?There has to be a first time for everything.

[CFC]

Leicester, the poppy tradition is decades old, never before have the England team worn one in a match.

There is no reason to change that tradition, what purpose does it serve? Its revisionism and is being exploited by opportunistic blazers.

[CFC]

Also Im pretty sure the FA would not have taken this stance last year when the World Cup bid hung in the balance.

Its an obvious swipe at FIFA over that, our war dead should not be used as pawns in the FA's tit for tat with Blatter, its crass and undignified. The fallen soldiers of all sides deserve better.

[AndyP]

England has played internationals in 2001 and 2007 at armistice weekend and no poppies were worn on the shirts. Theres no precedent for this. Whats next, players having to have poppy tattoos?

Turning on Pedant mode- 2007 Remembrance Weekend was the 11th, that match was played the weekend after, although they DID play Argentina in 2005 on the Saturday of Remembrance Weekend -Pedant Mode Off :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Turning on Pedant mode- 2007 Remembrance Weekend was the 11th, that match was played the weekend after, although they DID play Argentina in 2005 on the Saturday of Remembrance Weekend -Pedant Mode Off :wink: Jeez ;-)Well theres no precedent, anyway.

[Leicester Fan]

Leicester, the poppy tradition is decades old, never before have the England team worn one in a match.

There is no reason to change that tradition, what purpose does it serve? Its revisionism and is being exploited by opportunistic blazers.

I believe my club were the first to put a poppy on their shirts 7 or 8 years ago. For the last 3/4 years most if not all clubs in England have done this.

Fifa says this is against the rules for international matches fair enough, rules are rules, but it was nothing more than a nice gesture. No need to extrapolate this into some evil plot.

[Sylar]

I just don't understand the FIFA stance - why is it OK for a poppy to be displayed on a black armband, but not on display on the shirt?

I recall FIFA taking action against Madjid Bougherra whilst playing for Algeria and making a political statement by displaying a slogan on the shirt (or perhaps possession of a flag/banner - I can't specifically remember to be honest) beneath his national shirt, so by allowing the poppy to be displayed SOMEWHERE, they evidently don't consider it as a political symbol (which I don't either actually), so why is it OK on the armband but not the shirt?

It's either a political statement in their eyes (which they've already said) and it should not be displayed at all, or it's not a political statement and should be allowed to be worn on the strip (which they've gone half-way towards).

[HKhibby]

Here we go again! Anti-English! is that what Scotland is all about as usual?, someone elses fault as usual?, never their own!, well what would you expect with a guy like Salmond in charge of your little parliament!...if Brown had complained about the poppy issue, would he have been wrong?...probably not! as he was Scottish and Labour!, but wasnt he the man that used to go on about "Britishness"? as he said on more than one occassion, incidentally the worst damn PM there ever has been in the UK!, but at Least Cameron is supporting something he believes in!, poppys are not a political or religious symbol whatsoever, they are about respect to ones that gave their lives for the freedoms we all enjoy now!, and yes FIFA and probably more so UEFA are the most politically driven organisations i could probably think of....yes Anti-English and yes probably Anti-British too! and thats my opinion along with alot of other people!, so at least Cameron is standing up for his personal opinion either way! along with most of the English people! maybe Salmond would have an opinion on this?...doubt it considering he doesnt consider himself British!,
and incidentally most of the English people/friends i know, never thought for one minute that England would win the 2018 world cup!

[CFC]

I believe my club were the first to put a poppy on their shirts 7 or 8 years ago. For the last 3/4 years most if not all clubs in England have done this.Incidentally the clubs that chose not to wear poppies on their strips a few years back (Liverpool, Man Utd and a few others) were WRONGLY crucified in the court of public opinion because of it. Last year the green brigade staged a protest over this *****, cue moral uproar, year before the pricks were singing rebel songs during the minutes silence. Slowly but surely the poppy is being turned into an overtly political symbol and rememberance day into a free for all for every tom dick and opportunist harry to co-opt for their own political gains.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Here we go again! Anti-English! is that what Scotland is all about as usual?, someone elses fault as usual?, never their own!, well what would you expect with a guy like Salmond in charge of your little parliament!...if Brown had complained about the poppy issue, would he have been wrong?...probably not! as he was Scottish and Labour!, but wasnt he the man that used to go on about "Britishness"? as he said on more than one occassion, incidentally the worst damn PM there ever has been in the UK!, but at Least Cameron is supporting something he believes in!, poppys are not a political or religious symbol whatsoever, they are about respect to ones that gave their lives for the freedoms we all enjoy now!, and yes FIFA and probably more so UEFA are the most politically driven organisations i could probably think of....yes Anti-English and yes probably Anti-British too! and thats my opinion along with alot of other people!, so at least Cameron is standing up for his personal opinion either way! along with most of the English people! maybe Salmond would have an opinion on this?...doubt it considering he doesnt consider himself British!,
and incidentally most of the English people/friends i know, never thought for one minute that England would win the 2018 world cup!

WOW. Thats all.


Incidentally the clubs that chose not to wear poppies on their strips a few years back (Liverpool, Man Utd and a few others) were WRONGLY crucified in the court of public opinion because of it. Last year the green brigade staged a protest over this *****, cue moral uproar, year before the pricks were singing rebel songs during the minutes silence. Slowly but surely the poppy is being turned into an overtly political symbol and rememberance day into a free for all for every tom dick and opportunist harry to co-opt for their own political gains.

Correct. It has now become reprehensible not to wear a poppy. Ridiculous in my opinion. As Leicester said earlier I seem to recall it was his mob that started this poppies on shirts malarky. Absolutely no need for it whatsoever.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Here we go again! Anti-English! is that what Scotland is all about as usual?, someone elses fault as usual?, never their own!, well what would you expect with a guy like Salmond in charge of your little parliament!...if Brown had complained about the poppy issue, would he have been wrong?...probably not! as he was Scottish and Labour!, but wasnt he the man that used to go on about "Britishness"? as he said on more than one occassion, incidentally the worst damn PM there ever has been in the UK!, but at Least Cameron is supporting something he believes in!, poppys are not a political or religious symbol whatsoever, they are about respect to ones that gave their lives for the freedoms we all enjoy now!, and yes FIFA and probably more so UEFA are the most politically driven organisations i could probably think of....yes Anti-English and yes probably Anti-British too! and thats my opinion along with alot of other people!, so at least Cameron is standing up for his personal opinion either way! along with most of the English people! maybe Salmond would have an opinion on this?...doubt it considering he doesnt consider himself British!,
and incidentally most of the English people/friends i know, never thought for one minute that England would win the 2018 world cup!


who the **** are you to belittle my countries parliament ? bolt little englander boy :asshole:

[Leicester Fan]

Correct. It has now become reprehensible not to wear a poppy. Ridiculous in my opinion. As Leicester said earlier I seem to recall it was his mob that started this poppies on shirts malarky. Absolutely no need for it whatsoever.

Most things in life are done for want rather than need, I still don't see the harm in it.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Most things in life are done for want rather than need, I still don't see the harm in it.

Absolutely no harm in it all mate, just see no need to start wearing poppies on a football shirt.

[ballengeich]

and incidentally most of the English people/friends i know, never thought for one minute that England would win the 2018 world cup!

I infer that you're visiting us from the future as you know they didn't win it. Who did? (I'd like to get some money on at good odds).

[HKhibby]

no its called politically correctness gone mad once again!, does it really offend you or some people if the England/Scotland/Welsh/Norther Ireland teams were to have a poppy embroidered into their shirts?....maybe hitting a raw nerve here! or is it just because its the English team?...probaby if it has anything to do with Scotland or Wales!
i for one would love them to defy the ban and hammer the sponging spiks!

[hibsbollah]

no its called politically correctness gone mad once again!, does it really offend you or some people if the England/Scotland/Welsh/Norther Ireland teams were to have a poppy embroidered into their shirts?....maybe hitting a raw nerve here! or is it just because its the English team?...probaby if it has anything to do with Scotland or Wales!i for one would love them to defy the ban and hammer the sponging spiks!Loving your work :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

no its called politically correctness gone mad once again!, does it really offend you or some people if the England/Scotland/Welsh/Norther Ireland teams were to have a poppy embroidered into their shirts?....maybe hitting a raw nerve here! or is it just because its the English team?...probaby if it has anything to do with Scotland or Wales!
i for one would love them to defy the ban and hammer the sponging spiks!

What the heck is a sponging spik ?

[CropleyWasGod]

What the heck is a sponging spik ?

The opposite of a spikking spong? :confused:

[hibsbollah]

What the heck is a sponging spik ? Spic, slang for hispanic and considered offensive by those pesky do-gooders at the oxford english dictionary. PC gone mad, why cant we call them choob choob lipped sambos anymore, i blame those euro lefties trying to straighten our sausages etc etc

[Betty Boop]

The opposite of a spikking spong? :confused:

:greengrin


Spic, slang for hispanic and considered offensive by those pesky do-gooders at the oxford english dictionary. PC gone mad, why cant we call them choob choob lipped sambos anymore, i blame those euro lefties trying to straighten our sausages etc etc

Aw cheers ! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Spic, slang for hispanic and considered offensive by those pesky do-gooders at the oxford english dictionary. PC gone mad, why cant we call them choob choob lipped sambos anymore, i blame those euro lefties trying to straighten our sausages etc etc

How does it spong, though?

[hibsbollah]

No idea... but they better keep their theiving bullfighting hands off our pounds shillings ha'pennies and pence or i'll swear i'll do time.

[lapsedhibee]

no its called politically correctness gone mad once again!, does it really offend you or some people if the England/Scotland/Welsh/Norther Ireland teams were to have a poppy embroidered into their shirts?....maybe hitting a raw nerve here! or is it just because its the English team?...probaby if it has anything to do with Scotland or Wales!
i for one would love them to defy the ban and hammer the sponging spiks!

Gonnae swap the ! with the . button on your keyboard, there's a good fellow!!!!

[lyonhibs]

How does it spong, though?

It's if they start spongeing that I'll start getting really worried. They're not all just "from Barcelona" a la Manuel you know!!! This is how the breakdown of all great civilizations start.................

[Steve-O]

no its called politically correctness gone mad once again!, does it really offend you or some people if the England/Scotland/Welsh/Norther Ireland teams were to have a poppy embroidered into their shirts?....maybe hitting a raw nerve here! or is it just because its the English team?...probaby if it has anything to do with Scotland or Wales!
i for one would love them to defy the ban and hammer the sponging spiks!

Does it really offend you if they don't? :confused:

[Beefster]

Does it really offend you if they don't? :confused:

I'd imagine that it offends quite a few folk (not I incidentally). Just like folk getting outraged when a few Yams or Orcs couldn't stay quiet when Pope JP II died. It's a simple matter of respect to a lot of folk.

[--------]

Good ol Wills

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15643295.stm


Jings he looks glaikit in that photo. :rolleyes:

Looks like he left his brain behind in his sock-drawer.

Like one of Bertie Wooster's chums - Gussie Fink-Nottle, maybe? And this is 'our' future king....


Wearing - or not wearing - a poppy isn't the point, surely? The point is to be aware of the need to support ex-servicemen and women by contributing generously all the year round to service charitable organisations like PoppyScotland, Linburn, Erskine, Help for Heroes, BLESMA or Hollybush House.

Web addresses below.

http://www.poppyscotland.org.uk/index.php/homepage/show/home/poppyscotland

(http://www.poppyscotland.org.uk/index.php/homepage/show/home/poppyscotland)http://www.royalblind.org/warblinded/

(http://www.royalblind.org/warblinded/)http://www.erskine.org.uk/

(http://www.erskine.org.uk/)http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/
(http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/)
http://www.carehome.co.uk/carehome.cfm/searchazref/20006054ANCA

(http://www.carehome.co.uk/carehome.cfm/searchazref/20006054ANCA)http://www.combatstress.org.uk/pages/.html

[lapsedhibee]

Jings he looks glaikit in that photo. :rolleyes:

Looks like he left his brain behind in his sock-drawer.

Like one of Bertie Wooster's chums - Gussie Fink-Nottle, maybe? And this is 'our' future king....


Wearing - or not wearing - a poppy isn't the point, surely? The point is to be aware of the need to support ex-servicemen and women by contributing generously all the year round to service charitable organisations like PoppyScotland, Linburn, Erskine, Help for Heroes, BLESMA or Hollybush House.

Web addresses below.

http://www.poppyscotland.org.uk/index.php/homepage/show/home/poppyscotland

(http://www.poppyscotland.org.uk/index.php/homepage/show/home/poppyscotland)http://www.royalblind.org/warblinded/

(http://www.royalblind.org/warblinded/)http://www.erskine.org.uk/

(http://www.erskine.org.uk/)http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/
(http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/)
http://www.carehome.co.uk/carehome.cfm/searchazref/20006054ANCA

(http://www.carehome.co.uk/carehome.cfm/searchazref/20006054ANCA)http://www.combatstress.org.uk/pages/.html

Shouldn't disabled ex-servicepeeps be right at the very top of the list of categories of people that the government has a statutory duty to support, if they need support? Why do all these charities even exist? :grr:

[Future17]

Gonnae swap the ! with the . button on your keyboard, there's a good fellow!!!!

To be fair, judging from the rambling, incoherent nature of his post, I get the feeling that the ! is actually appropriate on this occasion. :greengrin

[--------]

Shouldn't disabled ex-servicepeeps be right at the very top of the list of categories of people that the government has a statutory duty to support, if they need support? Why do all these charities even exist? :grr:


Because in spite of the responsibility that government bears for people they recruit, train, and send out to places and situations of extreme danger, politicians deep down don't give a crap.

We hear about the dead from Afghanistan - when do we ever hear about the guys who come back physically disabled, suffering from PTSD, struggling to adapt to civilian life?

Think about it - a lad gets killed by an IED going off under his (inadequately armoured) vehicle. There are 4/5 other lads in the same vehicle. What odds not of THEM is seriously injured? NONE. For every mortality in a war, you can count on another half-dozen casualties, most of them serious ones.

But it's like after the Falklands - celebrate the heroes, politicians take all the applause, and the disabled and injured are kept well in the background.

Bad for morale - and recruitment, don't y'know?

The bodies represented by those websites are voluntary groups doing what the government should be doing, but isn't. I support them (and commend them to netters as worthy of THEIR support also) because somebody has to do it, ad if the government won't, then ordinary people and dedicated charities have to.

The end of the First World War was the first time in our history that either the British government or the British people gave a single serious though to the plight of the war-disabled and their families. That's where the British Legion, Poppy Scotland (formerly the Earl Haig Fund) and the others originated.

Sorry if this comes over as preaching - I just feel rather strongly about it. I know quite a few men who really struggle with life, all related to their time in the services.