Are the board guilty of listening to the fans too much?

[Horse]

In the wake of Calderwood's sacking, I feel like it's just another groundhog day, once again we have to endure another transition period after a manager has been sacked after little more than a year in the job. I don't want to start another tedious debate about CC's ability however I do think fans need to accept that a year is simply not long enough to change Hibs (or any other teams) fortunes around and sustain a decent level of success. There is a sense of de-ja-vu regarding CC's departure - All very similar to the removal of Yogi, Mixu and JC. For varying reasons, prior to their respective departures there was no shortage of moaning from fans about the manager "destroying the club" and "being the man for the job" etc. less than a year into their reigns. As the discontent grew the board reacted to the fans and got rid of the manager, causing a lengthy period of instability which I believe is the root cause of our downward spiral in recent years.

Similarly, some fans are now calling for Petries head and many more want him to have no part in the appointment of the next manager. Petrie's appointment of Mowbray was an undoubted success and whilst the appointments of CC, Yogi, Mixu and JC are questionably with hindsight all of those appointments were met at the time with almost universal approval from the fans. I don't think Petrie should resign as overall he has done a great job financially however he has performed poorly in: 1. His appointment of managers albeit if they'd had more time they may have disproved that theory which leads to point 2. His failure to give them a decent amount of time to turn things around. Therefore, like most fans I believe that Petrie should have minimal involvement in picking the next manager, so what have the board done? - Listened to the fans and left the job of picking the next manager to Scott Lindsay and Fyfe Hyland.

So in summary:

Many fans called for the head of CC, Mixu, JC and Yogi - the board react by removing (or mutually agreeing or whatever the official line was) them.

Many fans call for Petrie to take a back seat regarding the new manager - The board react by assigning this task to Lindsay/Hyland.

So if history repeats itself again and we appoint a new manager who doesn't immediately turn us into a success then in less than a year many fans will be calling for the new guys head, the board will react to ease the pressure in the forthcoming AGM and we are back to square one.

Whoever the new manager is, everyone connected with the club has to realise that the two things that we need to get out of this mess are stability and time. There is no miracle to be worked here, this season is looking very like being another one where avoiding relegation is the main target. In the longer term we need to look to slowly improve the squad through clever signings and youth - the only way to improve quickly is by spending loads of cash which we do not have.

The way the transfer windows are set up these days it is going to take any manager at least 2-3 years to really turn the team round so if we the fans keep clamouring for the board to sack manager on a annual basis then we will be stuck in an eternal transition period. Then the next step will be to clamour for the removal of Sir Tom and the board and who knows, there may be some Romanov type person lurking to "save" us.

When the new guy arrives all fans should be patient and back him 100% (even if it is JJ as difficult as that would be). Virtually all the Hibbys I know (in person) follow the team because we love Hibs, win, lose or draw and live for the good times which are few and far between. We know we have to persevere through bad times like these because it makes those rare good times so much more special. When I read messageboards I often wonder where the "we want instant success or sack the manager/board" attitude comes from, if you want instant success then go and buy a shiny new Rangers, Celtic of Man U strip and pretend to be overjoyed when they win the next trophy. If you want to support a real football team you have to be prepared to suffer a bit, stick together and get behind the team when the odds are against us - that's what Hibs are all about, or at least that is what we used to be all about!

On the plus side we are better placed than most Scottish teams - Now that Hearts and Rangers are going to have to live within their means we should be very competitive when it comes to paying wages. We have the best Stadium in the land and great training facilities. Any half decent manager should be able to change things for the better - it just won't all happen in twelve months.

So to fellow Hibbys, lets get back to being Hibbys and during games make noise and get behind team no matter what - show no weakness to our enemies just show them unity. Save the moaning for the pub after the game as it seems to be causing more harm than good when vented at the games and on messageboards.

[calumb]

In the wake of Calderwood's sacking, I feel like it's just another groundhog day, once again we have to endure another transition period after a manager has been sacked after little more than a year in the job. I don't want to start another tedious debate about CC's ability however I do think fans need to accept that a year is simply not long enough to change Hibs (or any other teams) fortunes around and sustain a decent level of success. There is a sense of de-ja-vu regarding CC's departure - All very similar to the removal of Yogi, Mixu and JC. For varying reasons, prior to their respective departures there was no shortage of moaning from fans about the manager "destroying the club" and "being the man for the job" etc. less than a year into their reigns. As the discontent grew the board reacted to the fans and got rid of the manager, causing a lengthy period of instability which I believe is the root cause of our downward spiral in recent years.Similarly, some fans are now calling for Petries head and many more want him to have no part in the appointment of the next manager. Petrie's appointment of Mowbray was an undoubted success and whilst the appointments of CC, Yogi, Mixu and JC are questionably with hindsight all of those appointments were met at the time with almost universal approval from the fans. I don't think Petrie should resign as overall he has done a great job financially however he has performed poorly in: 1. His appointment of managers albeit if they'd had more time they may have disproved that theory which leads to point 2. His failure to give them a decent amount of time to turn things around. Therefore, like most fans I believe that Petrie should have minimal involvement in picking the next manager, so what have the board done? - Listened to the fans and left the job of picking the next manager to Scott Lindsay and Fyfe Hyland.

So in summary:

Many fans called for the head of CC, Mixu, JC and Yogi - the board react by removing (or mutually agreeing or whatever the official line was) them.

Many fans call for Petrie to take a back seat regarding the new manager - The board react by assigning this task to Lindsay/Hyland.

So if history repeats itself again and we appoint a new manager who doesn't immediately turn us into a success then in less than a year many fans will be calling for the new guys head, the board will react to ease the pressure in the forthcoming AGM and we are back to square one.

Whoever the new manager is, everyone connected with the club has to realise that the two things that we need to get out of this mess are stability and time. There is no miracle to be worked here, this season is looking very like being another one where avoiding relegation is the main target. In the longer term we need to look to slowly improve the squad through clever signings and youth - the only way to improve quickly is by spending loads of cash which we do not have.

The way the transfer windows are set up these days it is going to take any manager at least 2-3 years minimum to really turn the team round so if we the fans keep clamouring for the board to sack manager on a annual basis then we will be stuck in an eternal transition period. Then the next step will be to clamour for the removal of Sir Tom and the board and who knows, there may be some Romanov type person lurking to "save" us.

When the new guy arrives all fans should be patient and back him 100% (even if it is JJ as difficult as that would be). Virtually all the Hibbys I know (in person) follow the team because we love Hibs, win, lose or draw and live for the good times which are few and far between. We know we have to persevere through bad times like these because it makes those rare good times so much more special. When I read messageboards I often wonder where the "we want instant success or sack the manager/board" attitude comes from, if you want instant success then go and buy a shiny new Rangers, Celtic of Man U strip and pretend to be overjoyed when they win the next trophy. If you want to support a real football team you have to be prepared to suffer a bit, stick together and get behind the team when the odds are against us - that's what Hibs are all about, or at least that is what we used to be all about!

On the plus side we are better placed than most Scottish teams - Now that Hearts and Rangers are going to have to live within their means we should be very competitive when it comes to paying wages. We have the best Stadium in the land and great training facilities. Any half decent manager should be able to change things for the better - it just won't all happen in twelve months.

So to fellow Hibbys, lets get back to being Hibbys and during games make noise and get behind team no matter what - show no weakness to our enemies just show them unity. Save the moaning for the pub after the game as it seems to be causing more harm than good when vented at the games and on messageboards.


Or maybe the board themselves realized that they had made another bad choice in manager and decided to act quickly and remove them before a duff jimmy situation was re-created

[Hibeescott]

In the wake of Calderwood's sacking, I feel like it's just another groundhog day, once again we have to endure another transition period after a manager has been sacked after little more than a year in the job. I don't want to start another tedious debate about CC's ability however I do think fans need to accept that a year is simply not long enough to change Hibs (or any other teams) fortunes around and sustain a decent level of success. There is a sense of de-ja-vu regarding CC's departure - All very similar to the removal of Yogi, Mixu and JC. For varying reasons, prior to their respective departures there was no shortage of moaning from fans about the manager "destroying the club" and "being the man for the job" etc. less than a year into their reigns. As the discontent grew the board reacted to the fans and got rid of the manager, causing a lengthy period of instability which I believe is the root cause of our downward spiral in recent years.

Similarly, some fans are now calling for Petries head and many more want him to have no part in the appointment of the next manager. Petrie's appointment of Mowbray was an undoubted success and whilst the appointments of CC, Yogi, Mixu and JC are questionably with hindsight all of those appointments were met at the time with almost universal approval from the fans. I don't think Petrie should resign as overall he has done a great job financially however he has performed poorly in: 1. His appointment of managers albeit if they'd had more time they may have disproved that theory which leads to point 2. His failure to give them a decent amount of time to turn things around. Therefore, like most fans I believe that Petrie should have minimal involvement in picking the next manager, so what have the board done? - Listened to the fans and left the job of picking the next manager to Scott Lindsay and Fyfe Hyland.

So in summary:

Many fans called for the head of CC, Mixu, JC and Yogi - the board react by removing (or mutually agreeing or whatever the official line was) them.

Many fans call for Petrie to take a back seat regarding the new manager - The board react by assigning this task to Lindsay/Hyland.

So if history repeats itself again and we appoint a new manager who doesn't immediately turn us into a success then in less than a year many fans will be calling for the new guys head, the board will react to ease the pressure in the forthcoming AGM and we are back to square one.

Whoever the new manager is, everyone connected with the club has to realise that the two things that we need to get out of this mess are stability and time. There is no miracle to be worked here, this season is looking very like being another one where avoiding relegation is the main target. In the longer term we need to look to slowly improve the squad through clever signings and youth - the only way to improve quickly is by spending loads of cash which we do not have.

The way the transfer windows are set up these days it is going to take any manager at least 2-3 years to really turn the team round so if we the fans keep clamouring for the board to sack manager on a annual basis then we will be stuck in an eternal transition period. Then the next step will be to clamour for the removal of Sir Tom and the board and who knows, there may be some Romanov type person lurking to "save" us.

When the new guy arrives all fans should be patient and back him 100% (even if it is JJ as difficult as that would be). Virtually all the Hibbys I know (in person) follow the team because we love Hibs, win, lose or draw and live for the good times which are few and far between. We know we have to persevere through bad times like these because it makes those rare good times so much more special. When I read messageboards I often wonder where the "we want instant success or sack the manager/board" attitude comes from, if you want instant success then go and buy a shiny new Rangers, Celtic of Man U strip and pretend to be overjoyed when they win the next trophy. If you want to support a real football team you have to be prepared to suffer a bit, stick together and get behind the team when the odds are against us - that's what Hibs are all about, or at least that is what we used to be all about!

On the plus side we are better placed than most Scottish teams - Now that Hearts and Rangers are going to have to live within their means we should be very competitive when it comes to paying wages. We have the best Stadium in the land and great training facilities. Any half decent manager should be able to change things for the better - it just won't all happen in twelve months.

So to fellow Hibbys, lets get back to being Hibbys and during games make noise and get behind team no matter what - show no weakness to our enemies just show them unity. Save the moaning for the pub after the game as it seems to be causing more harm than good when vented at the games and on messageboards.


Cracking post! Someone talking sense. I agree that there are too many fans who think we will achieve instant success and I would go as far to say that they are actually a big part of the problem.

[Sammy7nil]

I agree a year is not a long time

BUT

In a year there should be some progress in

calibre of player
playing style
team organisation
determination to win
points gained
atmosphere around the club
optimisim from the fans things can change

If you can point to any improvement in any of those areas under calderwood I would be happy to hear it.

[Beefster]

I think part of the problem is that, on a lot of things, the club is reactive rather than proactive.

[Horse]

I agree a year is not a long time

BUT

In a year there should be some progress in

calibre of player
playing style
team organisation
determination to win
points gained
atmosphere around the club
optimisim from the fans things can change

If you can point to any improvement in any of those areas under calderwood I would be happy to hear it.

Like I said I don't really want to get into a debate about CC, there are plenty of other threads on that subject and CC is now history so lets move on. My point is that our last four managers have only had around a year and we cannot keep this pattern up if we are going to improve long term. I agree with you that I'd expect to see progress in a year but realistic progress at the moment would be scraping into the top six.

[Jack]

The summary was the longest part of your post! ;-)

In an ideal world you're right, unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and there comes a time; impending relegation; lack of bums on seats and stuff like that when decisive action needs to be taken. The board must reflect and act on the wishes and desires of the support or there will be no support Or income and no club.

[Albion Hibs]

Well said OP i agree 100%. If anyone thinks this cycle can be broken with this constant change they are kidding themselves. Someone on another thread made a good point, that CC, the terrible manager that he was according to many is walking into a job at a much higher level than the one he has just left, does he really not have the ability, or did he just not have the money, the time, and managerial assistance that he need to actually do something with this club.

The timing of his departure, like Yogi's should say it all. I am disappointed by the board for making this reaction. I think the best thing would be to cancel the AGM for the next three years, we might actually have a chance of building something.

I think there is a very good chance that history will repeat itself. A new manager will bring in a couple of players that based on their first 45mins some will say they are world beaters, they will turn out to be crap, he will have 75% of a season with someone elses players and no doubt be allowed 25% of the following season. After that we will have the AGM and be subjected to 4 weeks of odds on who the next manager is going to be, pie in the sky suggestions, none of which will be picked which will put the new manager off on bad footing with the forum, as he was not the manager they chose.

If a hibs manager has 12 months it should be from May to May, how about judging someone on the results of a season.

[Sammy7nil]

Like I said I don't really want to get into a debate about CC, there are plenty of other threads on that subject and CC is now history so lets move on. My point is that our last four managers have only had around a year and we cannot keep this pattern up if we are going to improve long term. I agree with you that I'd expect to see progress in a year but realistic progress at the moment would be scraping into the top six.


I agree and JC YOGI and CC either all failed or were failing to get in to the top 6 when they left the club.
We need a manger to show even minimum progrees but we are miles away from this. We are in relegation trouble and as long as we stay there are the mangers job will always be under threat.