Scottish Daily Express - The View Of Jackie Mac Snr - Spot On

[AlbertK86]

Following pasted from the paper

McNamara, 59, who played for the Hibees between 1976 and 1985 and is still a season ticket holder also insists it's time for club bosses to stop fleecing the fans and time for them to invest in the first team squad.

He firmly believes that the rot set in at Easter Road the minute former boss John Collins who was the last manager to win silverware in 2007 was allowed to leave the club after his bestplayers (http://www.hibs.net/#) were sold and he was forced to make do with bargain basement replacements.

McNamara reckons that chairman Rod Petrie's refusal to support Collins is the root of the club's current problems and now he fears they may be relegated declaring: "They should never have let John Collins leave. They should have given him the support he needed in the transfer market.
Instead of that they sold the likes of Scott Brown, Kevin Thomson, Steven Whittaker and they didn't allow John to spend anything - he had to sign players (http://www.hibs.net/#) from the bottom divisions in England on Bosmans.

John eventually became so frustrated that he quit and no wonder. The club has now had nine managers in the last 10 years and that's Petrie's fault.

Got to agree here with Jackie but would add I think they have not all been bad managers ... it is more the constraints 'He Who Must Be Obeyed' has put on them whilst they were there.

[Hibbyradge]

Got to agree here with Jackie but would add I think they have not all been bad managers ... it is more the constraints 'He Who Must Be Obeyed' has put on them whilst they were there.

Are you suggesting that Hibs managers should be allowed to work constraint free?

How much was Alan O'Brien on a week and how much did we pay for him?

With performance in the transfer market like that, how long should Hibs have tolerated such a waste of cash?

Collins signings were awful. We paid for Makalamby too iirc.

[Iain G]

Following pasted from the paper

McNamara, 59, who played for the Hibees between 1976 and 1985 and is still a season ticket holder also insists it's time for club bosses to stop fleecing the fans and time for them to invest in the first team squad.

He firmly believes that the rot set in at Easter Road the minute former boss John Collins who was the last manager to win silverware in 2007 was allowed to leave the club after his bestplayers (http://www.hibs.net/#) were sold and he was forced to make do with bargain basement replacements.

McNamara reckons that chairman Rod Petrie's refusal to support Collins is the root of the club's current problems and now he fears they may be relegated declaring: "They should never have let John Collins leave. They should have given him the support he needed in the transfer market.
Instead of that they sold the likes of Scott Brown, Kevin Thomson, Steven Whittaker and they didn't allow John to spend anything - he had to sign players (http://www.hibs.net/#) from the bottom divisions in England on Bosmans.

John eventually became so frustrated that he quit and no wonder. The club has now had nine managers in the last 10 years and that's Petrie's fault.

Got to agree here with Jackie but would add I think they have not all been bad managers ... it is more the constraints 'He Who Must Be Obeyed' has put on them whilst they were there.

They are coming out in force to put the boot in, first Kano now Jackie MacNamara regurgitating their "rent a quote" grievances against the club. There was no way we could have afforded some of the players Collins "named" as ones he wanted to sign, as much as I hate to say it as I think he would have made a great manager for us given his time to change the mentality of the club, but he jumped when the going got too hard for him.

Hibs have backed their managers more and more, does Jackie Mac think that the likes of O'Connor, Sproule and Osbourne all came cheap!?!

For a sensible view of things, go read what Pat Stanton has been saying, nice to see an ex-Hibs player and manager seeing the positives for a change.

[Golden Bear]

An excellent common sense and factual article.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/282374/Jackie-McNamara-Don-t-blow-it-again

[matty_f]

An excellent common sense and factual article.http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/282374/Jackie-McNamara-Don-t-blow-it-again It's not a factual piece, the whole article is based on opinion.

[AlbertK86]

They are coming out in force to put the boot in, first Kano now Jackie MacNamara regurgitating their "rent a quote" grievances against the club. There was no way we could have afforded some of the players Collins "named" as ones he wanted to sign, as much as I hate to say it as I think he would have made a great manager for us given his time to change the mentality of the club, but he jumped when the going got too hard for him.

Hibs have backed their managers more and more, does Jackie Mac think that the likes of O'Connor, Sproule and Osbourne all came cheap!?!

For a sensible view of things, go read what Pat Stanton has been saying, nice to see an ex-Hibs player and manager seeing the positives for a change.

Depending on who you are referring to but if it was Naismith and Robson who were at Killie and Utd at the time I believe with the money we had taken in for Brown, Thomson, Whitaker and O'Connor plus the upcoming sale of Murphy we could have. That was a chance for the club to show a bit of ambition but they wouldn't match JCs ambition - and that was despite telling him he would be given the money for Murph initially.

[Golden Bear]

Are you suggesting that Hibs managers should be allowed to work constraint free?

How much was Alan O'Brien on a week and how much did we pay for him?

With performance in the transfer market like that, how long should Hibs have tolerated such a waste of cash?

Collins signings were awful. We paid for Makalamby too iirc.

:agree:

They were, --------- but were they "his signings" or Tommy Craig's? Having said that I was very disappointed that JC decided to resign in the manner he did - he obviously realised that his halo was slipping and he didn't want to to see his reputation damaged any further.

[Hibbyradge]

Depending on who you are referring to but if it was Naismith and Robson who were at Killie and Utd at the time I believe with the money we had taken in for Brown, Thomson, Whitaker and O'Connor plus the upcoming sale of Murphy we could have. That was a chance for the club to show a bit of ambition but they wouldn't match JCs ambition - and that was despite telling him he would be given the money for Murph initially.

We bid £2m for Naismith, iirc.

Is that not ambitious?

[Golden Bear]

It's not a factual piece, the whole article is based on opinion.

But presumably based on inside knowledge and from a variety of sources.

[Barney McGrew]

it's time for club bosses to stop fleecing the fans and time for them to invest in the first team squad.

I love this line constantly getting trotted out. We've made an operating loss every year outside transfer fees for how long now? Where is this 'investment' coming from?


they didn't allow John to spend anything - he had to sign players (http://www.hibs.net/#) from the bottom divisions in England on Bosmans

Pish. We had the fourth biggest budget in the SPL and Collins wasted a chunk of that on the likes of Bran Kerr, Alan O'Brien and Yves Makalambay.

It looks to me like there are certain former players that very much have a grudge against Petrie and the board and they're allowing that to cloud their judgement at times. Listening to them constantly bleat on about Collins is getting embarassing now - he did well, but he wasn't the messiah that they forever make him out to be.

[AlbertK86]

We bid £2m for Naismith, iirc.

Is that not ambitious?

If true but I think you'll find that bid was not actually made...

[GreenPJ]

We bid £2m for Naismith, iirc.

Is that not ambitious?

I think we bid £750K but it was all irrelevant, the lad would never have come. Making an agreeable offer to a club is not the deal done, the personal terms of players with agents in their ear telling them that down south or the smellies will offer 3* the salary will be enough to turn the heads and off they trot.

[matty_f]

We bid £2m for Naismith, iirc.

Is that not ambitious?

We trumped Rangers' bid at one point, but (as with Robson who we also tried to get) these players had no desire to come to Easter Road when the OF were sniffing about them.

There's ambition and there's realism. A good manager would know the difference and use their skills to over-achieve with the realistic targets they can get.



But presumably based on inside knowledge and from a variety of sources.

Doubt it, it reads very much like an opinion rather than anything insightful. The same opinions literally could have been lifted from here!

[bawheid]

Why do ex-Hibs players see it as their place to talk pish in the media?

1: Various slaverings from Paul Kane over the years.

2: Pat Stanton in yesterday's media saying he would be happy with a red-faced fat old yam as the Hibernian Football Club manager.

3: Jackie Mac Snr rehashing nonsense that has been gone over time and time again. Keeping Brown, Thomson, Whittaker wasn't an option when they wanted to leave for 10 times the salary.

Has Kane ever run a football club? He can barely run a pub!

Stanton - legend, but ultimately a failed manager.

Jackie Mac Snr - Assisted Jim Duffy in our march towards relegation.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I wonder if Jackie is one of these "fitba folk" we keep hearing so much about. It reassuring to see that he is now able to recognise a team that is capable of relegation though.

[nortonhibby]

Following pasted from the paper

McNamara, 59, who played for the Hibees between 1976 and 1985 and is still a season ticket holder also insists it's time for club bosses to stop fleecing the fans and time for them to invest in the first team squad.

He firmly believes that the rot set in at Easter Road the minute former boss John Collins who was the last manager to win silverware in 2007 was allowed to leave the club after his bestplayers (http://www.hibs.net/#) were sold and he was forced to make do with bargain basement replacements.

McNamara reckons that chairman Rod Petrie's refusal to support Collins is the root of the club's current problems and now he fears they may be relegated declaring: "They should never have let John Collins leave. They should have given him the support he needed in the transfer market.
Instead of that they sold the likes of Scott Brown, Kevin Thomson, Steven Whittaker and they didn't allow John to spend anything - he had to sign players (http://www.hibs.net/#) from the bottom divisions in England on Bosmans.

John eventually became so frustrated that he quit and no wonder. The club has now had nine managers in the last 10 years and that's Petrie's fault.

Got to agree here with Jackie but would add I think they have not all been bad managers ... it is more the constraints 'He Who Must Be Obeyed' has put on them whilst they were there.

Could not agree more one man is the root of all this mess RP:taxi

[Beefster]

We bid £2m for Naismith, iirc.

Is that not ambitious?

Your memory is playing tricks on you. We're lucky if we bid £0.9 mill. A fine amount in general but I could have told Hibs that it was a derisory bid for one of the top young players in Scotland. We could safely bid £5m for Wayne Rooney as a gesture, safe in the knowledge that it had no chance.

Not that I'm advocating Hibs bidding millions on players incidentally.

[Jack]

There were a series of bids from both Hibs and rangers for Naismith. IIRC rangers opening bid was the left over crisps from hospitality over twenty years so long as Killie picked up the postage for them. Hibs might not have won that one but rangers had to shell out serious money, up front, and I’m sure Killie were very appreciative of our efforts.

To me it showed the Hibs board will react when the right things are in place at the right time. Unfortunately just as we got to the time where everything was in place to step up to the next level the recession came along and screwed everything and everyone up. Most clubs are in financial turmoil / meltdown while we are just a tad uncomfy.

[Iain G]

Depending on who you are referring to but if it was Naismith and Robson who were at Killie and Utd at the time I believe with the money we had taken in for Brown, Thomson, Whitaker and O'Connor plus the upcoming sale of Murphy we could have. That was a chance for the club to show a bit of ambition but they wouldn't match JCs ambition - and that was despite telling him he would be given the money for Murph initially.

We had just built East Mains, something both Mogga and Collins identified as a key investment for the development of the club.

I am very much in the pro-John Collins camp, but he was being unrealistic about the levels of income that Hibs can generate compared to the level of players we can afford and attract. He got some well paid players in, alas he spent badly when it came to the likes of O'Brien, so this shear fiction that the board didn't back the manager (and this includes Mixu and Yogi and Calderwood) is just that, a fabrication that suits some peoples anti-RP/Board/Tom Farmer arguements.

I cannot for the life of me see what good not supporting any of our managers would be for the board or the club as a whole entity?!?! :confused:

[Hibbyradge]

Your memory is playing tricks on you. We're lucky if we bid £0.9 mill. A fine amount in general but I could have told Hibs that it was a derisory bid for one of the top young players in Scotland. We could safely bid £5m for Wayne Rooney as a gesture, safe in the knowledge that it had no chance.

Not that I'm advocating Hibs bidding millions on players incidentally.

Aye, my memory has played tricks.

I think Rangers eventually paid £2m for him. I was sure we offered around £1m though.

[Golden Bear]

It's not so long ago that "The Tache" was looked upon as some sort of cult hero for his ability to play hard ball on the transfer market. There was a quote from a fan in yesterday's press which said:-

"Rod Petrie's record as Chairman has been dragged down by mismanagement on the park with Calderwood and John Hughes before him."

I couldn't agee more but as RP was at least partly responsible for the appointments then he's got to share some of the blame.

[Sergio sledge]

I love this line constantly getting trotted out. We've made an operating loss every year outside transfer fees for how long now? Where is this 'investment' coming from?

:agree: The sad thing is, some people keep swallowing it. Last year we posted an operating loss of nearly £2m, the same the year before I think and this year is quite probably going to be worse. We've got the 4th biggest wage budget in Scotland but the previous managers who were given this budget have all under achieved with it. We have no more money to invest in the playing squad.


Pish. We had the fourth biggest budget in the SPL and Collins wasted a chunk of that on the likes of Bran Kerr, Alan O'Brien and Yves Makalambay.

:agree: O'Brien was signed from Newcastle, Makalambay from Chelsea, Joneleit from Monaco, Kerr from Motherwell. Collins wasted a lot of the money he had on duds and was left with very little to try to get the squad numbers up, so he signed guys like MAC, Gathussei, Morais.


It looks to me like there are certain former players that very much have a grudge against Petrie and the board and they're allowing that to cloud their judgement at times. Listening to them constantly bleat on about Collins is getting embarassing now - he did well, but he wasn't the messiah that they forever make him out to be.

I was a Collins fan, but he struggled in the transfer market and jumped ship when the going got tough. McNamara seems to come out with exactly the same article every time a manager leaves, completely ignoring the reality of the club in the SPL and the budget we have given to our recent managers.

[ScottB]

Sorry, but that's a lot of crap. The whole 'spend moooooore and all will be well' nonsense has gone far enough.

Every manager since Collins, and I include him, has been backed. How many players have we signed since he came in? More than 40 maybe? Perhaps if Collins had signed any decent players with the cash he got, and hadn't spat the dummy out that we couldn't get Naimsith or Robson ahead of the Old Firm, there'd be something worth complaining about.

Collins, Mixu, Hughes and CC all signed players from big English clubs, to suggest they weren't backed is nonsense, we have spent more than anyone outside of the Old Firm and Hearts.

[SkintHibby]

Aye, my memory has played tricks.

I think Rangers eventually paid £2m for him. I was sure we offered around £1m though.

£900K was Hibs top offer.:agree:

[blackpoolhibs]

Sorry, but that's a lot of crap. The whole 'spend moooooore and all will be well' nonsense has gone far enough.

Every manager since Collins, and I include him, has been backed. How many players have we signed since he came in? More than 40 maybe? Perhaps if Collins had signed any decent players with the cash he got, and hadn't spat the dummy out that we couldn't get Naimsith or Robson ahead of the Old Firm, there'd be something worth complaining about.

Collins, Mixu, Hughes and CC all signed players from big English clubs, to suggest they weren't backed is nonsense, we have spent more than anyone outside of the Old Firm and Hearts.

:agree: We spend more than most NOW, just how much more should we spend than Dunfermline to guarantee beating them?

As for spending £1m on Naysmith, do any of our fans know what wages a £1m player would want?

I'd imagine Naysmith will be on around 12-15k a week, along with Robsons wages, we'd be spending a huge amount of our wage budget on 2 players. Just not sustainable.

[Peevemor]

Jackie Mac was probably my first Hibs hero and has been sound the few times I've spoken with him, but he's really starting to get on my thrup'nies with his 'insights' as to what's been going on over the past few seasons.

Hibs still have debt, albeit managable, of around £8m (?), they've backed the managers to an extent that we've been running at an operating loss for the past few seasons.

Where does he think the money should come from to invest more in the team? If Hibs has splashed the Broonie/KT money on say 3 top players, it would have been gone after a couple of years when you take transfer fees and wages into account.

Would that have been the way forward?

[James70]

No matter what financial restraints are placed on the manager, no one can tell me that the likes of Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Mirren and Dunfermline are able to spend half as much on their squads as Hibs have yet they have all beaten us this season and Motherwell in particular are showing what can be achieved with a decent manager at the helm.

I doubt if there is a Hibs supporter anywhere that expects us to win a trophy of some sort every couple of seasons but any good manager even working on a low budget should still be able to to give us a top six place every season at the very least.

Petrie is taking a lot of stick, some of it deservedly, but at the end of the day any manager worth his salt should be able to have the team nearer the top end of the table than the bottom end.

[patlowe]

The board deserves criticism for its handling of the managerial position over the years but it's frustrating listening to these ex-players (that get endless airtime on BBC and in the press) waffle on about the managers not being backed. We've easily spent enough over the past 4-5 years to be challenging for 3rd, we've just spent incredibly badly. Our most effective player in the transfer market was Mowbray and he spent much less than the guys Petrie has supposedly failed to back - Good manager, good signings, good team.

However, Petrie has been hugely at fault for managerial appointments post-TM. The way we've cut the debt AND finished off the stadium/training ground has been mighty impressive but because of bad appointments, we've had to annually rebuild the team and have ultimately failed to take advantage of the huge strides made over the other non-OF clubs financially.

[blackpoolhibs]

The board deserves criticism for its handling of the managerial position over the years but it's frustrating listening to these ex-players (that get endless airtime on BBC and in the press) waffle on about the managers not being backed. We've easily spent enough over the past 4-5 years to be challenging for 3rd, we've just spent incredibly badly. Our most effective player in the transfer market was Mowbray and he spent much less than the guys Petrie has supposedly failed to back - Good manager, good signings, good team.

However, Petrie has been hugely at fault for managerial appointments post-TM. The way we've cut the debt AND finished off the stadium/training ground has been mighty impressive but because of bad appointments, we've had to annually rebuild the team and have ultimately failed to take advantage of the huge strides made over the other non-OF clubs financially.

Spot on. :top marks

[Seveno]

I'm not sure if Collins left over the size of the players budget but rather the lack of backing after the players protest to RP.

That was when the discipline and fitness level went downhill.

Remember when we used to be a couple of goals down with ten minutes to go and still feel we could win a game ?

[Franck is God]

The board deserves criticism for its handling of the managerial position over the years but it's frustrating listening to these ex-players (that get endless airtime on BBC and in the press) waffle on about the managers not being backed. We've easily spent enough over the past 4-5 years to be challenging for 3rd, we've just spent incredibly badly. Our most effective player in the transfer market was Mowbray and he spent much less than the guys Petrie has supposedly failed to back - Good manager, good signings, good team.

However, Petrie has been hugely at fault for managerial appointments post-TM. The way we've cut the debt AND finished off the stadium/training ground has been mighty impressive but because of bad appointments, we've had to annually rebuild the team and have ultimately failed to take advantage of the huge strides made over the other non-OF clubs financially.


Agree with a lot of this.

Mowbray did work well in the transfer market but I would have been interested how he would have faired had O'Connor, Riordan, Thomson, Brown, Murray, Caldwell & Whittaker turned out to be such good players. He did sign Boozy, Stewart, Murphy, Shiels etc but for every good signing there was an Oumar Konde, Shelton Martis, Sam Morrow, Amadou Konte, Simon Brown, Zibi Malkowski.....

I think that our board have backed each manager financially as well as they could with the debt and income that we had at any given time and the structure investments made in the training ground and stadium.

The big mistake for me though still goes back to that night in 2007 when a group of players turned up at Rod Petries house, he should have told them all to beat it and let JC deal with it all from then on but he didn't and for me this has been the biggest problem ever since.

Every player that was there that night should never have played for us again, SAF always says that the most important person at a football club is the manager and that night proved that at ER he is not.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Good post Franck.