Sandy Clark

[Diclonius]

Just described one player's defending as a "holocaust". Nice one. :rolleyes:

[Iggy Pope]

Just described one player's defending as a "holocaust". Nice one. :rolleyes:

Easy done. Sure he didn't mean to offend and Richard Gordon apologised immediately.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Very silly thing to say but have heard it many times at the football.

[Baader]

Just what you expect from an idiot like Sandy Clark.

[allezsauzee]

Uh oh the PC zealots will be having a field day

[cocopops1875]

To be fair its a phrase i use regularly no offence intended

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Totally ridiculous comment from a terrible pundit. Someone should fine that prick a week's wage and use the money to send him to Auschwitz so he can appreciate why he can't go saying things like that. Imagine Hanson, Dixon, Lineker coming out with something like that?

[Hibs Class]

Very silly thing to say but have heard it many times at the football.

Odd. I've never heard it at the football before.

[Lofarl]

It never happened :devil::

[essexhibee]

Totally ridiculous comment from a terrible pundit. Someone should fine that prick a week's wage and use the money to send him to Auschwitz so he can appreciate why he can't go saying things like that. Imagine Hanson, Dixon, Lineker coming out with something like that?Good idea. Those mentioned above would get hammered maybe even cut from the job. Remember when one pundit said how the defender "raped" him of the ball. Was never seen as a pundit on motd again..think it might have been Alan pardew.

[Pretty Boy]

Very silly thing to say but have heard it many times at the football.

Agreed, stupid thing to say on the radio but I've heard it regularly in amateur football games and more than once at Easter Road in the past.

[vanNISHtelroy]

Apparently he was talking about Paul Heffernan and said he had had a holocaust or something along those lines....didn't hear it myself though!

[lucky]

Very silly thing to say but have heard it many times at the football.

Heard it hundreds of times at games. But then I've heard songs about blacks, Jews, Asians ,Catholics and protestants does not make it right. I wonder if the police will investigate it under the zero tolerance approach over sectarian attitudes

[vanNISHtelroy]

Just seen that Tony Cascarino said a similar thing during the Man Utd v Arsenal game

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2031125/Tony-Cascarino-holocaust-remark-compares-Arsenals-defending-Nazi-genocide.html

[cabbageandribs1875]

Good idea. Those mentioned above would get hammered maybe even cut from the job. Remember when one pundit said how the defender "raped" him of the ball. Was never seen as a pundit on motd again..think it might have been Alan pardew.


a horrible word(and horrible act) that has been used on here on a few occasions by a young poster(and at least one older poster, cant remember his username), although only 18 he really should know what the word means, god knows what kind of games he must play on the playstation/etc etc

[The Harp]

I just switched over and heard Richard Gordon's apology. Thought at the time it must've been bad language but obviously not. Not the first time he's had to apologise for comments made by his 'team' - maybe about time he had a word with some of them.

[Makaveli]

At high school our PE teacher said we shouldn't organise a team to play against other schools because we would "get molested". :tin hat:

[blackpoolhibs]

At high school our PE teacher said we shouldn't organise a team to play against other schools because we would "get molested". :tin hat:

Catholic school by any chance? :offski:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Catholic school by any chance? :offski:

Hearts :agree:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

You have got to put things into perspective and by that I mean that Sandy Clark isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[ronaldo7]

You have got to put things into perspective and by that I mean that Sandy Clark isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

That's cause he's a spoon.

[tamig]

Uh oh the PC zealots will be having a field day

My sentiments exactly :rolleyes:

[Andy74]

I'm presuming it was a small h and not preceded by the word 'The'.

Total fuss about nothing.

[Kato]

I'm presuming it was a small h and not preceded by the word 'The'.

Total fuss about nothing.

Totally.

He's still an erse though.

[ac1]

To be fair its a phrase i use regularly no offence intended

ha ha did you get it from me! :greengrin

Jackson heidache! :greengrin

[Geo_1875]

I hope all Jewish listeners were suitably offended and all other sensitive souls have managed to stop vomiting in their mouths.

[Bayern Bru]

You have got to put things into perspective and by that I mean that Sandy Clark isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.


That's cause he's a spoon.

:faf::thumbsup:

[Future17]

I'm presuming it was a small h and not preceded by the word 'The'.

Total fuss about nothing.

Exactly.

Sandy Clark is a bawbag but nothing wrong with using that word in this context where there is obviously no offence intended.

Words and phrases enter the language all the time and their meaning is adapted by the way they are used. I can't understand anyone being upset by this.

[Bayern Bru]

On the same note, no-one seems to be picking up on phrases like 'a Tsunami of Celtic players rushing forwards' etc. If we're going to hop on the politically correct bus every time some half-wit old pro makes a bit of a slip (exception: Ron Atkinson) then we might as well just abandon football commentary/punditry.

Though some might say that'd be a bonus!:greengrin

[cocopops1875]

Also is using murder offensive? "Our defence is murder " for example

[hibeedonald]

I hate it when people overreact to stuff like this, no offence was intended.

[Scouse Hibee]

I have read the match report and Clark was right he was having one, don't really see what all the fuss is about!

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I don't think anyone is over reacting. Over reacting would be calling Sandy Clark a racist and saying he should be sacked, which no one is.

I'm not normally a 'pc arse' but I think what he said was inappropriate. There are plenty other ways of saying someone is having a bad game. A poor choice of words from a poor pundit.

[basehibby]

Don't see what all the fuss is about TBH - the word holocaust can be properly used to describe any massive disaster resulting in extensive loss of life and should NOT be taken to be directed specifically at jewish people/culture/whatever.

Sandy Clark was clearly using the word to describe the massive disaster which was the defender in question's performance. Surely the use of this phrase should be no more offensive to anyone than the use of the terms "war" or "battle" or "goal scoring drought" in a sporting context?!?

[Iggy Pope]

I don't think anyone is over reacting. Over reacting would be calling Sandy Clark a racist and saying he should be sacked, which no one is.

I'm not normally a 'pc arse' but I think what he said was inappropriate. There are plenty other ways of saying someone is having a bad game. A poor choice of words from a poor pundit.

There is an over reaction though. If Sandy Clark had said "the boy is having a stinker and by the way I hate Jews / Romany / Cambodians etc (delete where 'appropriate')", then different story.


Holocaust is only a word (Greek origin BTW so probably pre WW2) and pundits are paid to use too many of them. The word Holocaust relates to an atrocious destruction of human life.
Like murder.
If he had remarked that the 'boy was murder' would your piss still be boiling?

[Holmesdale Hibs]

There is an over reaction though. If Sandy Clark had said "the boy is having a stinker and by the way I hate Jews / Romany / Cambodians etc (delete where 'appropriate')", then different story.


Holocaust is only a word (Greek origin BTW so probably pre WW2) and pundits are paid to use too many of them. The word Holocaust relates to an atrocious destruction of human life.
Like murder.
If he had remarked that the 'boy was murder' would your piss still be boiling?

My piss wasn't boiling to be fair and obviously if he said what you wrote above that would be far worse. As I've said I thought it was a poor choice of words. I'm sure your definition of holocaust is correct but most people, myself and almost certainly sandy Clark included, wouldn't have known that and therefore it wouldn't have been interpreted in that context.

Murder is a far more general term with completely different connotations. I personally don't like the phrase holocaust and it's not suitable to use on radio IMO.

[Hibby70]

Sandy Clark should have been fired on the spot. I am totally offended by his outburst.

Not surprising that Sandy Clark is an anagram of Liked Aryans (well nearly)

[Iggy Pope]

My piss wasn't boiling to be fair and obviously if he said what you wrote above that would be far worse. As I've said I thought it was a poor choice of words. I'm sure your definition of holocaust is correct but most people, myself and almost certainly sandy Clark included, wouldn't have known that and therefore it wouldn't have been interpreted in that context.

Murder is a far more general term with completely different connotations. I personally don't like the phrase holocaust and it's not suitable to use on radio IMO.

It is correct. In what context do you or the 'most people' you are speaking on behalf of, think he was using the word? Do you really think he was intentionally comparing a footballers poor performance to mass genocide?

Reactionary PC garbage I'm afraid.

[johnrebus]

Whatever Sandy Clark said, I'm against it.

The man is a knob.

:na na:

[Hibs Class]

It is correct. In what context do you or the 'most people' you are speaking on behalf of, think he was using the word? Do you really think he was intentionally comparing a footballers poor performance to mass genocide?

Reactionary PC garbage I'm afraid.

Holocaust doesn't relate to just any murder. It relates to mass destruction of life, is often associated with destruction by fire (e.g. nuclear holocaust) although its use is also generally accepted in e.g. the Cambodian holocaust. (It can also be used to refer to a sacrifice in the form of a burnt offering).

Its most common usage for the last few decades has obviously been in relation to the WW2 Holocaust . It is possible to regard usage such as Clark's yesterday as inappropriate without being personally offended, and it is trite to dismiss such an opinion as "reactionary PC garbage".

[Hainan Hibs]

All aboard the PC bus so we can all appear superior with a lovely side of smugness :trumpet::taxi

[Iggy Pope]

Holocaust doesn't relate to just any murder. It relates to mass destruction of life, is often associated with destruction by fire (e.g. nuclear holocaust) although its use is also generally accepted in e.g. the Cambodian holocaust. (It can also be used to refer to a sacrifice in the form of a burnt offering).

Its most common usage for the last few decades has obviously been in relation to the WW2 Holocaust . It is possible to regard usage such as Clark's yesterday as inappropriate without being personally offended, and it is trite to dismiss such an opinion as "reactionary PC garbage".

Read post #35 and you will see I have already outlined the definition. You would appear to be repeating my understanding of the word.

Trite? You believe he was comparing the display of this footballer with mass destruction of life?

Reactionary PC garbage.

[Hibs Class]

Read post #35 and you will see I have already outlined the definition. You would appear to be repeating my understanding of the word.

Trite? You believe he was comparing the display of this footballer with mass destruction of life?

Reactionary PC garbage.

I did read post 35. It was the comment "like murder" that I referred to (albeit didn't quote) as holocaust generally doesn't refer to just any murder.

You presumably read my post seeing as you quoted it - I didn't suggest or infer in it that he was making a comparison to mass destruction of life. I did say that given the general connotation of the term his usage of it was inappropriate. I think that's a reasonable opinion to hold, and if you want to interpret that as reactionary PC garbage then that's fine by me. Doesn't mean you're right.

[Iggy Pope]

I did read post 35. It was the comment "like murder" that I referred to (albeit didn't quote) as holocaust generally doesn't refer to just any murder.

You presumably read my post seeing as you quoted it - I didn't suggest or infer in it that he was making a comparison to mass destruction of life. I did say that given the general connotation of the term his usage of it was inappropriate. I think that's a reasonable opinion to hold, and if you want to interpret that as reactionary PC garbage then that's fine by me. Doesn't mean you're right.

Just any murder? All murder is reprehensible to me but I can't be offended by the term. Any more than I would be by (off the top of my head) 'disaster', 'kill', 'destroy', 'slay' 'whip' or any number of distasteful words used in sporting commentary.
And you presumably read my post and I asked the pertinent question, which is one of context. I didn't infer that you had made any comparisons but simply asked what context you or the previous poster thought Clark was speaking in.
If you were offended, then you are easily, far too easily, offended.
That's my interpretation.

[Hibs Class]

Just any murder? All murder is reprehensible to me but I can't be offended by the term. Any more than I would be by (off the top of my head) 'disaster', 'kill', 'destroy', 'slay' 'whip' or any number of distasteful words used in sporting commentary.
And you presumably read my post and I asked the pertinent question, which is one of context. I didn't infer that you had made any comparisons but simply asked what context you or the previous poster thought Clark was speaking in.
If you were offended, then you are easily, far too easily, offended.
That's my interpretation.

I assume the context Clark was speaking in was making an observation about a player in the match he had been watching. I didn't say I was offended as I'm not. I just said it was a reasonable opinion to regard it as inappropriate language, and a little lazy for anyone who disagrees to dismiss such an opinion as PC garbage.

[Andy74]

What if he had just said it was murder?

Far more people even affected by that catch all crime but that's allright is it?

[Iggy Pope]

I assume the context Clark was speaking in was making an observation about a player in the match he had been watching. I didn't say I was offended as I'm not. I just said it was a reasonable opinion to regard it as inappropriate language, and a little lazy for anyone who disagrees to dismiss such an opinion as PC garbage.

I actually find Sandy Clark inappropriate.
But I find it reactionary that anyone would somehow read the context in which he used this word as inappropriate. And odd that you would somehow view my opinion as lazy. That's liberals for you though, I guess!

[Iggy Pope]

What if he had just said it was murder?

Far more people even affected by that catch all crime but that's allright is it?

Agree wholeheartedly - see post #35

[lapsedhibee]

All you uppity hobos saying it's all right to use the word "holocaust" - ffs, know your place. History is written by the winners, who were, in WW2 as in WW1, the yams. They and they alone have the right to say what terminology is and is not allowed.

PS Proper pundits would use words like stramash and bourach to describe disorderly defensive play.

[Gala Foxes]

Radio Scotland Sport - the home of ex-football managers that have fallen off the manager merry-go-round & can't get a job -

Jimmy Calderwood
Sandy Clark
Alan Preston
John Hughes

and also a medium for Derek Ferguson to mumble on

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

As I have said earlier, SC isn't a bloke likely ever to say " can you repeat that Magnus" and i wonder if he meant to say that he had a horror show or something and got himself tongue tied. To suggest that he meant it and knew what he was doing is like saying that the That's Life dog actually liked sausages and that is why it said it all the time.

[DarrenSQH]

Another over reaction from the PC brigade.

Have heard the expression that a player is having a holocaust many times at the football when someone is having a bad game.

That being said Sandy Clark is still a yam fud.

[green glory]

At high school our PE teacher said we shouldn't organise a team to play against other schools because we would "get molested". :tin hat:

Wish my art teacher had said something like then when I was 15/16. She was a babe.:thumbsup:

[Dinkydoo]

Remember when one pundit said how the defender "raped" him of the ball.

:faf:

What a game that must of been.

[Kato]

I'm sure your definition of holocaust is correct but most people, myself and almost certainly sandy Clark included, wouldn't have known that and therefore it wouldn't have been interpreted in that context.



You're admitting that your vocabulary is poorer than Sandy Clark's.

I'd give up.

Usage of that word stretches way beyond that vile event during WW2.

[Kato]

and also a medium for Derek Ferguson to mumble on

Derek Ferguson commentates on BBC Scotland through a medium? I didn't even know he was dead!! It's ages since I tuned into that pile of rubbish but I'm in on the next show? If he does a phone-in maybe he can tell us who the next Hibs manager is or when the next time we'll string 8 passes together will be.

[Hibercelona]

Occasionally we get these anti-pc liners from commentators.

I seem to recall an orangutan comment concerning an ex-goalie of ours during an Edinburgh derby. :greengrin

No apology though, just 10 minutes of awkward silence. :wink:

[Spike Mandela]

Ask yourself this. Would you describe a defenders poor performance using this word to a group of jewish people in your company?

If you wouldn't then it's clear the word is inappropriate. Footballers mostly aren't really noted for their intellect and Sandy Clark certainly wouldn't beat Pat Nevin in an English exam. However, unless he starts repeatedly using this term I think he should be forgiven one insensitive slip.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

As I have said earlier, SC isn't a bloke likely ever to say " can you repeat that Magnus" and i wonder if he meant to say that he had a horror show or something and got himself tongue tied. To suggest that he meant it and knew what he was doing is like saying that the That's Life dog actually liked sausages and that is why it said it all the time.

:faf:

[Spike Mandela]

As I have said earlier, SC isn't a bloke likely ever to say " can you repeat that Magnus" and i wonder if he meant to say that he had a horror show or something and got himself tongue tied. To suggest that he meant it and knew what he was doing is like saying that the That's Life dog actually liked sausages and that is why it said it all the time.

:top marks:thumbsup:

[Andy74]

Ask yourself this. Would you describe a defenders poor performance using this word to a group of jewish people in your company?

If you wouldn't then it's clear the word is inappropriate. Footballers mostly aren't really noted for their intellect and Sandy Clark certainly wouldn't beat Pat Nevin in an English exam. However, unless he starts repeatedly using this term I think he should be forgiven one insensitive slip.

That's a daft example really and I'm sure you know that.

There are a number of words that might have particular meaning for groups or individuals but that doesn't mean that the word should not be used at any point on the off chance someone somewhere might be able to make some link from it to something bad that has happended. Like eveyone if you were in particluar company you might be more aware of certain words and their meanings but speaking in public for mnny hours every week is a bit different. There will be the odd word that means something to one group or other.

Should we not be able to say a striker is on fire in case Bradford fans are listening in?

We can't say a game has been murder in case all the families of murder victims may hear it?

The Old Firm can't really be refered to as a cancer within the game as almost all of us have lost someone from this.

We do too much trying to second guess if someone else will be offended by something. I'm pretty sure the Jewish community worldwide can accept that the word has other more general meanings in other contexts.

[Spike Mandela]

I'm pretty sure the Jewish community worldwide can accept that the word has other more general meanings in other contexts.

It would be pretty insensitive to argue the pedantic point with them though would it not.

If you wouldn't tell a certain type of joke in front of a black man then you probably already know it is racist.

Not trying to labour the PC point as like many I feel we are too sensitive these days but I'm also sure if you pressed Sandy Clark on his use of the word he will have wished he had used another way to describe a poor football display.

[sesoim]

Gosh I love the pc brigade.:brickwall

Can the pc brigade just get a life and stop picking up on every little thing anybody says in the spur of the moment? To an extent people who aren't all that bright are getting penalised and made out to be monsters just because they aren't great at coming up with the right words. People saying the "wrong" thing seems to get more news coverage than rapes or murders these days.

If it keeps up like this I'm moving to Greenland.

[Spike Mandela]

Gosh I love the pc brigade.:brickwall

Can the pc brigade just get a life and stop picking up on every little thing anybody says in the spur of the moment? To an extent people who aren't all that bright are getting penalised and made out to be monsters just because they aren't great at coming up with the right words. People saying the "wrong" thing seems to get more news coverage than rapes or murders these days.

If it keeps up like this I'm moving to Greenland.

Just so as you know, the word eskimo is no longer considered politically correct in Greenland the preferred term is Inuit. Wouldn't like you to get in bother.:wink::greengrin