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ScottB
27-10-2011, 11:56 PM
Rumours going around that he has gone! I guess time will tell...

From Twitter:

p_mcpartlin (http://twitter.com/#!/p_mcpartlin) Patrick McPartlin.



Hearing from several sources that #Hibs (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23Hibs) manager ColinCalderwood has resigned/been sacked. These rumours have done the rounds before though.

ac1
28-10-2011, 12:04 AM
:pray:

hopefully Petrie with him..........

ScottB
28-10-2011, 12:07 AM
:pray:

hopefully Petrie with him..........

Based on the new structure, surely it will be SL who would be hiring the next guy.

In any case, Petrie has 10% of the shares, anyone expecting him to quit is probably dreaming. He'll go when he wants, presumably to a job at the SPL / SFA at some stage.

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 12:12 AM
I have had word from an independant source (my mates wife) whom has no affiliation with Hibs and works at Herald suggesting that something may be announced at Hibs with CC going by "mtual consent" of course they could have been lied too also.

Makes sense in terms off CC could hold out for full payout but he really is doing himself no favours with the awful job he is doing so both meet somewhere in middle.

Westie1875
28-10-2011, 12:29 AM
I have had word from an independant source (my mates wife) whom has no affiliation with Hibs and works at Herald suggesting that something may be announced at Hibs with CC going by "mtual consent" of course they could have been lied too also.

Makes sense in terms off CC could hold out for full payout but he really is doing himself no favours with the awful job he is doing so both meet somewhere in middle.

If true I hope it is announced at the same time that Petrie is going and will have no involvement in choosing the next manager.

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 12:30 AM
If true I hope it is announced at the same time that Petrie is going and will have no involvement in choosing the next manager.

No point in CC just going IMO, RP has to go asap along with all his other appointments.

steakbake
28-10-2011, 12:37 AM
If so, thanks for your efforts, CC. I'm struggling to pick a highlight as im sure you would yourself admit. obviously the 3-0 v Rangers was very welcome. apart from that, good luck in future endeavours!

SteveHFC
28-10-2011, 12:38 AM
Hope it's true. The sooner the clown is out of the club the better :agree:

Diclonius
28-10-2011, 02:06 AM
Seriously doubt it, here's hoping though.

Skanko79
28-10-2011, 04:05 AM
Fingers well and trully crossed he has gone. Really cant see the tache walking though.......

brydekirk
28-10-2011, 06:12 AM
Bye cc, dont look back, >:)

3pm
28-10-2011, 06:27 AM
Strange if true. Quotes from his press conference yesterday are in this morning's Metro. Suppose that doesn't mean a great deal.

bingo70
28-10-2011, 06:29 AM
Would this not fall in line with Michael o'neills season finishing in Ireland this weekend?

macca70
28-10-2011, 06:40 AM
Would this not fall in line with Michael o'neills season finishing in Ireland this weekend?

Or with JJ currently withoot a job.

Cropley10
28-10-2011, 06:45 AM
Based on the new structure, surely it will be SL who would be hiring the next guy.

In any case, Petrie has 10% of the shares, anyone expecting him to quit is probably dreaming. He'll go when he wants, presumably to a job at the SPL / SFA at some stage.

Do you honestly think Petrie won't be involved in picking the next manager? Frankly I can't see what qualifies SL to do it either. Either way it better not be, ex Hibs player, Michael O'Neill.

bingo70
28-10-2011, 06:51 AM
Do you honestly think Petrie won't be involved in picking the next manager? Frankly I can't see what qualifies SL to do it either. Either way it better not be, ex Hibs player, Michael O'Neill. Being an ex player shouldn't give him an advantage but it shouldn't count against him either and from my limited knowledge of Irish football he appears to have done an excellent job over there.Either way I hope we go for someone in that mould, a young manager on their way up rather than an old fart that's got experience of mediocre and likely to have failed elsewhere

DoonTheSlope
28-10-2011, 07:22 AM
Given CC`s record and little or no sign of improvement aligned with shocking attendances this would not come as a surprise. However the big question going forward, who next for the hot seat that seems to be a poisoned chalice. The Manager should be the most important appointment at our club.

Gatecrasher
28-10-2011, 07:26 AM
Each time we are due to punt a manager a few rumors like this go around, it wont be much longer imo

Hibee87
28-10-2011, 07:29 AM
Would this not fall in line with Michael o'neills season finishing in Ireland this weekend?

As i stated on the the michael o'neil thread yesterday, WHEN calderwood goes BB will become the new manager. personaly didnt think it would happen till after the weekend but if its being leaked on twitter by journo's etc im thinking today is the day :agree:

DaveF
28-10-2011, 07:43 AM
As i stated on the the michael o'neil thread yesterday, WHEN calderwood goes BB will become the new manager. personaly didnt think it would happen till after the weekend but if its being leaked on twitter by journo's etc im thinking today is the day :agree:

While I think BB does a good enough job as an assistant, it would a huge risk to give him the managers job when Calderwood is moved on. To me, it has all the hallmarks of Jocky Scott and that was hardly a raging success....

Elephant Stone
28-10-2011, 07:48 AM
While I think BB does a good enough job as an assistant, it would a huge risk to give him the managers job when Calderwood is moved on. To me, it has all the hallmarks of Jocky Scott and that was hardly a raging success....

It would be a gamble we can't really afford to take, if we don't get the next one right we'll be in some state.

Allant1981
28-10-2011, 07:55 AM
Dont think it will happen just now. Think he will still be here at christmas

bingo70
28-10-2011, 08:01 AM
It would be a gamble we can't really afford to take, if we don't get the next one right we'll be in some state.

don't think it'd be a gamble at all, he'd get the job as caretaker then if he improves us then we'll give him a little longer until we're sure he's the right man long term, if he's failing well he's only a caretaker manager anyway so wouldn't cost anything to punt him and we'd have an idea if he's any good pretty quickly.

Northernhibee
28-10-2011, 08:13 AM
Oh please let this be true.

Beefster
28-10-2011, 08:14 AM
While I think BB does a good enough job as an assistant, it would a huge risk to give him the managers job when Calderwood is moved on. To me, it has all the hallmarks of Jocky Scott and that was hardly a raging success....

If, after the last 3/4 incumbents, they were to give the job to a man who has never been a manager and seemingly has no ambition to be, I give up. Surely not even Rodders or Son of Rodders would be that dumb?

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 08:22 AM
If, after the last 3/4 incumbents, they were to give the job to a man who has never been a manager and seemingly has no ambition to be, I give up. Surely not even Rodders or Son of Rodders would be that dumb?

I would not suprise me in the least if he did give BB the job. I hope he doesn't i think BB is a fantastic No.2 and whoever comes in see's this and can also work alongside Billy. Petrie should be leaving along with CC though, he's draining the life out our club.

IWasThere2016
28-10-2011, 08:23 AM
If, after the last 3/4 incumbents, they were to give the job to a man who has never been a manager and seemingly has no ambition to be, I give up. Surely not even Rodders or Son of Rodders would be that dumb?

:top marks

bingo70
28-10-2011, 08:24 AM
If, after the last 3/4 incumbents, they were to give the job to a man who has never been a manager and seemingly has no ambition to be, I give up. Surely not even Rodders or Son of Rodders would be that dumb?

What if he's given the caretakers job and he wins the next 10 games on the trot so we offer him an extension till the end of the season?

Obviously thats an extreme situation and unlikely to happen but there's no exact science to appointing a manager, we've tried going for one with plenty spl experience, we've tried an experienced manager with knowledge of the game down south, we've tried appointing a young up and coming manager and we've tried a youngish manager with no experience but great ideas so if he wants the gig and he shows enough short term it might be worth giving him a little longer.

ozzie
28-10-2011, 08:24 AM
If, after the last 3/4 incumbents, they were to give the job to a man who has never been a manager and seemingly has no ambition to be, I give up. Surely not even Rodders or Son of Rodders would be that dumb?

BB would be caretaker manager while interviews were done for a manager, this process could take as long as the board like with time to see how bb would do. killing two birds with one stone :wink:

we can't afford to write anybody off as we have found out experienced manager doesn't always = sucessful hibs team

bingo you must have posted at the same time as me but thats exactly what i was trying to say in my gobbledy gook kind of way :wink:

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 08:25 AM
I think if true it would be out there now, looking like wrong information, unfortunatly.

Northernhibee
28-10-2011, 08:25 AM
Let's have a Sheerin/Brown combo, one young, enthusiastic and doing great things with a poor team, the other experienced and old school.

NOLA
28-10-2011, 08:30 AM
No Chance. however another heavy defeat tomorrow and monday morning might be a different story.

Viva_Palmeiras
28-10-2011, 08:33 AM
Although MO'n hadn't signed a new contract im sure I read he is contracted to 2013 - can anyone confirm?

Stevie Reid
28-10-2011, 08:35 AM
Although MO'n hadn't signed a new contract im sure I read he is contracted to 2013 - can anyone confirm?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/hoops-eager-to-wrap-up-oneill-deal-2917745.html

Viva_Palmeiras
28-10-2011, 08:44 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/hoops-eager-to-wrap-up-oneill-deal-2917745.html

Thanks it wasn't conclusive although this mail article tens to suggest it's up...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2037488/Shamrock-Rovers-manager-Michael-ONeill.html

happiehibbie
28-10-2011, 08:44 AM
Just had a text from a good source he has not gone will have more info later though

stubru59
28-10-2011, 08:47 AM
Major surgery required at our club. Fortunately, there are no vital organs to worry about.

If CC is going (has gone?) boardroom incumbents need to follow.

Hamish
28-10-2011, 08:57 AM
Just had a text from a good source he has not gone will have more info later though

:agree: he has not resigned/been sacked as far as my contact, who is usually pretty reliable, is aware. Would think he will get to January at least to sort it out.

Mark79
28-10-2011, 09:00 AM
:agree: he has not resigned/been sacked as far as my contact, who is usually pretty reliable, is aware. Would think he will get to January at least to sort it out.

Fabulous.

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 09:00 AM
No way has he been sacked or left. It would have been on the news by now.

steakbake
28-10-2011, 09:13 AM
Deary me. Yet another false dawn at ER. Another corner which we haven't turned!!

aberhibsfc
28-10-2011, 09:20 AM
:top marks

Good Avatar TQM, RP having a Worthers moment.

Is it just me, or does Petrie like moustaches so much he's cultivated or grafted two more above his eyes.

greenlex
28-10-2011, 09:29 AM
Good Avatar TQM, RP having a Worthers moment.Is it just me, or does Petrie like moustaches so much he's cultivated or grafted two more above his eyes. Dunno. What do your ones look like?

NORTHERNHIBBY
28-10-2011, 09:34 AM
:agree: he has not resigned/been sacked as far as my contact, who is usually pretty reliable, is aware. Would think he will get to January at least to sort it out.


If we are still in the same predicament come January, going by mutual consent will be the buzz-word. Can't see him being sacked because Petrie is almost welded to him and they would go as a package unless one of them jumps first.
I think that he has been be given until at least then, but accept that we will need to see a miraculous upturn in our fortunes.

bingo70
28-10-2011, 09:37 AM
No way has he been sacked or left. It would have been on the news by now.

IMO he's not left yet, however the ball has started rolling, it's not working for either party but these things aren't sorted over a few hours, there's probably up to a couple of hundred grand at stake here for both parties so there'll be a lot of negotiating going on and clauses to be decided.

with a game we're expected to lose tomorrow there probably isn't a huge rush to get it sorted today, if it doesn't happen today it'll be the early part of next week IMO as with our defence it's an absolute stick on we'll get a hefty defeat again tomorrow.

PaulSmith
28-10-2011, 09:42 AM
100% not left and taking training right now according to Mark Benstead via twitter

The_Famous_HFC
28-10-2011, 09:46 AM
Id be pretty surprised if he was chocked after this weekend regardless of the result.

just_joe
28-10-2011, 09:47 AM
So Calderwood hasn't left then :boo hoo: I should have known we were not that lucky! Maybe its a case of he is waiting for Petrie to sack him so he get's the compensation , while petrie is waiting on him quitting!

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 09:49 AM
I don't understand this "give him till Jan or he will be sacked in Jan". What will change between now and then? Sack him now then we have time to get someone in to see the team and in Jan go for players he thinks can improve.

Stick with CC till Jan then new manager comes in has little time to work with the team before the window shuts and then is left with dross.

It's a no brainer ffs. Just punt him now, and Petrie you can share that taxi with CC.

Saorsa
28-10-2011, 09:59 AM
:pray:

hopefully Petrie with him..........:agree:


I don't understand this "give him till Jan or he will be sacked in Jan". What will change between now and then? Sack him now then we have time to get someone in to see the team and in Jan go for players he thinks can improve.

Stick with CC till Jan then new manager comes in has little time to work with the team before the window shuts and then is left with dross.

It's a no brainer ffs.Just punt him now, and Petrie you can share that taxi with CC.:agree: His time is up.

Don Giovanni
28-10-2011, 10:05 AM
I don't understand this "give him till Jan or he will be sacked in Jan". What will change between now and then? Sack him now then we have time to get someone in to see the team and in Jan go for players he thinks can improve. Stick with CC till Jan then new manager comes in has little time to work with the team before the window shuts and then is left with dross. It's a no brainer ffs. Just punt him now, and Petrie you can share that taxi with CC. :agree:

aberhibsfc
28-10-2011, 10:12 AM
Dunno. What do your ones look like?

Not as green as yours.

green glory
28-10-2011, 10:13 AM
I've noticed since yesterday, the CC post Celtic match interview on Hibernian TV isn't working. Seems to be about the only one that isn't. Might mean nothing though. :dunno:

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 10:16 AM
I don't understand this "give him till Jan or he will be sacked in Jan". What will change between now and then? Sack him now then we have time to get someone in to see the team and in Jan go for players he thinks can improve.

Stick with CC till Jan then new manager comes in has little time to work with the team before the window shuts and then is left with dross.

It's a no brainer ffs. Just punt him now, and Petrie you can share that taxi with CC.


It's only a 'no brainer' if we get suitable replacements. Who's your choice for next mangaer and who do think can come in and do a better job than RP.

Personally, I can't think of a replacement manager (who'd want to come to the club) that fills me with confidence!

With regard to replacing RP it's worth remembering that the club made a £900,000 loss in the last financial year. Unless there is a serious investor out there, I doubt anyone could do as good a job as RP without running as into a serious debt situation.

hibs0666
28-10-2011, 10:19 AM
Don't you just love social media. Lies and falsehoods are half-way round the world before the truth has got its shoes on...

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 10:23 AM
It's only a 'no brainer' if we get suitable replacements. Who's your choice for next mangaer and who do think can come in and do a better job than RP.

Personally, I can't think of a replacement manager (who'd want to come to the club) that fills me with confidence!

With regard to replacing RP it's worth remembering that the club made a £900,000 loss in the last financial year. Unless there is a serious investor out there, I doubt anyone could do as good a job as RP without running as into a serious debt situation.

I would take Davies, Strachan or Jim Jefferies. As i've said before not bothered one bit he managed the **** over the road. He knows how to get the best out of his teams. Regarding Petrie i'm not sure who would replace him but someone who wants to improve the football team and not just there to have a lovely looking spreadsheet. Sorry mate but Hibs have the foundations there for anyone to come in and take the club forward. I do think they would do a better job than Petrie.

I take it you're ok with CC abd Petrie in charge? If you are can you tell me why? I'm not being cheeky i'm just wondering what you think the two bring to Hibs right now.

Beefster
28-10-2011, 10:26 AM
It's only a 'no brainer' if we get suitable replacements. Who's your choice for next mangaer and who do think can come in and do a better job than RP.

Personally, I can't think of a replacement manager (who'd want to come to the club) that fills me with confidence!

With regard to replacing RP it's worth remembering that the club made a £900,000 loss in the last financial year. Unless there is a serious investor out there, I doubt anyone could do as good a job as RP without running as into a serious debt situation.

The fact that you cannot think of a replacement manager/CEO/Chairman that you like the sound of doesn't mean that there are not people who could do a better job out there.

You might think that no-one could do better than Rodders if you only view the role of the Chairman to be making sure the the books balance but that's not his only responsibility. Our Board, in particular, are incredibly conservative when it comes to marketing, comms etc. There are a lot of improvements that that fresh thinking or different attitudes could bring to the club.

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 10:29 AM
The fact that you cannot think of a replacement manager/CEO/Chairman that you like the sound of doesn't mean that there are not people who could do a better job out there.

You might think that no-one could do better than Rodders if you only view the role of the Chairman to be making sure the the books balance but that's not his only responsibility. Our Board, in particular, are incredibly conservative when it comes to marketing, comms etc. There are a lot of improvements that that fresh thinking or different attitudes could bring to the club.

:agree:

Northernhibee
28-10-2011, 10:30 AM
Oh well, least 1st division ticket prices will be cheaper.

silverhibee
28-10-2011, 10:30 AM
As i stated on the the michael o'neil thread yesterday, WHEN calderwood goes BB will become the new manager. personaly didnt think it would happen till after the weekend but if its being leaked on twitter by journo's etc im thinking today is the day :agree:



And if Hibs do that i for one will not be back at ER if he becomes the manager of Hibs.

silverhibee
28-10-2011, 10:33 AM
If, after the last 3/4 incumbents, they were to give the job to a man who has never been a manager and seemingly has no ambition to be, I give up. Surely not even Rodders or Son of Rodders would be that dumb?


:agree:




:tee hee:

silverhibee
28-10-2011, 10:36 AM
No Chance. however another heavy defeat tomorrow and monday morning might be a different story.


Hibs do the dirty buisness on a Sunday night.

scoopyboy
28-10-2011, 10:40 AM
[/U]]I don't understand this "give him till Jan or he will be sacked in Jan". What will change between now and then? Sack him now then we have time to get someone in to see the team and in Jan go for players he thinks can improve.

Stick with CC till Jan then new manager comes in has little time to work with the team before the window shuts and then is left with dross.

It's a no brainer ffs. Just punt him now, and Petrie you can share that taxi with CC.

From the rodders school of finance it will be 8 weeks less money to find to pay him off

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 10:40 AM
And if Hibs do that i for one will not be back at ER if he becomes the manager of Hibs.

Not a fan then? :wink:

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 10:47 AM
The fact that you cannot think of a replacement manager/CEO/Chairman that you like the sound of doesn't mean that there are not people who could do a better job out there.

You might think that no-one could do better than Rodders if you only view the role of the Chairman to be making sure the the books balance but that's not his only responsibility. Our Board, in particular, are incredibly conservative when it comes to marketing, comms etc. There are a lot of improvements that that fresh thinking or different attitudes could bring to the club.

Sorry Beefster, but I don't agree. The bottom line is there is no money in the SPL. Even the old firm, who have defo got the fan base to generate funds, can't make end's meat (look at the mess Rangers are in).

Football is all about money and who's willing to spend the most on playing staff these days. That's why the old firm win the league title every year and Hearts are probably the best of the rest with, I hasten to add, a £30M debt!!!!

I think our board do a good job in very difficult circumstances and don't believe small improvements in the marketing of the club would make a significant difference.

silverhibee
28-10-2011, 10:49 AM
It's only a 'no brainer' if we get suitable replacements. Who's your choice for next mangaer and who do think can come in and do a better job than RP.

Personally, I can't think of a replacement manager (who'd want to come to the club) that fills me with confidence!

With regard to replacing RP it's worth remembering that the club made a £900,000 loss in the last financial year. Unless there is a serious investor out there, I doubt anyone could do as good a job as RP without running as into a serious debt situation.


Billy Davies and his backroom staff would be a good appointment.

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 10:51 AM
Billy Davies and his backroom staff would be a good appointment.

100% Agree.

PaulSmith
28-10-2011, 10:55 AM
100% Agree.

Really, at what cost (££) would they come at though?

I can see a Bobby Williamson type of figure, the club is skint and we need to go back to basics and steady the ship. An old head to crack the whip, someone with plenty of experience in the SPL and the ability to get the best out of a budget which will drop significantly over the next 18 months.


If CC goes then Billy Brown will get the job. I am confident of that.

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 10:57 AM
I would take Davies, Strachan or Jim Jefferies. As i've said before not bothered one bit he managed the **** over the road. He knows how to get the best out of his teams. Regarding Petrie i'm not sure who would replace him but someone who wants to improve the football team and not just there to have a lovely looking spreadsheet. Sorry mate but Hibs have the foundations there for anyone to come in and take the club forward. I do think they would do a better job than Petrie.

I take it you're ok with CC abd Petrie in charge? If you are can you tell me why? I'm not being cheeky i'm just wondering what you think the two bring to Hibs right now.


You're right, I am OK with CC and RP in charge. CC because the club needs continuity not constant change and, personally, I don't think any one of the 3 managers you mention could do any better with the limited funds available at Hibs. RP because, as per my previous post, I think the board at Hibs do a good job in difficult circumstances. Look at how clubs similar in stature to Hibs are performing without running up massive debts. Aberdeen & Dundee Utd are no better than we are.

JimBHibees
28-10-2011, 10:58 AM
I get the impression it is a stand off between the tache and manager to see who can blink first which if true isnt a particularly healthy position to be in.

sundo1875
28-10-2011, 10:58 AM
Any further developments?

Keith_M
28-10-2011, 11:00 AM
What if he's given the caretakers job and he wins the next 10 games on the trot so we offer him an extension till the end of the season?

Obviously thats an extreme situation and unlikely to happen but there's no exact science to appointing a manager, we've tried going for one with plenty spl experience, we've tried an experienced manager with knowledge of the game down south, we've tried appointing a young up and coming manager and we've tried a youngish manager with no experience but great ideas so if he wants the gig and he shows enough short term it might be worth giving him a little longer.


Oh how we laughed


:greengrin

JimBHibees
28-10-2011, 11:01 AM
You're right, I am OK with CC and RP in charge. CC because the club needs continuity not constant change and, personally, I don't think any one of the 3 managers you mention could do any better with the limited funds available at Hibs. RP because, as per my previous post, I think the board at Hibs do a good job in difficult circumstances. Look at how clubs similar in stature to Hibs are performing without running up massive debts. Aberdeen & Dundee Utd are no better than we are.

Agree about continuity normally being a good thing however there does need to be some genuine signs of improvement to evidence it is working. Struggling to see it at present.

Speedway
28-10-2011, 11:03 AM
Any further developments?

Not gone.

Won't see Jan however.

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 11:09 AM
You're right, I am OK with CC and RP in charge. CC because the club needs continuity not constant change and, personally, I don't think any one of the 3 managers you mention could do any better with the limited funds available at Hibs. RP because, as per my previous post, I think the board at Hibs do a good job in difficult circumstances. Look at how clubs similar in stature to Hibs are performing without running up massive debts. Aberdeen & Dundee Utd are no better than we are.

How can you be happy though with the way we play and results? his record mirrors that of duffy and we went down. I'm not saying we will drop but why settle for 11th or 10th? I've said before i don't care how many managers we go through as long as we eventually get the right man. We are playing some truly honking football here and you say the managers i mentioned wouldn't do better? that's a bold statement to be honest because i think all three would do a far better job. They have good knowledge of the SPL and all done well.

Petrie can do better, i fully agree it's not easy in this day and age but like another poster says marketing is poor. Just because Petrie just about manages to balance the sheets does not mean a new man couldn't do the same but bring fresh ideas as well. Petrie has done well in the past but i have the feeling he's out staying his welcome and should step away from us altogether.

pacorosssco
28-10-2011, 11:14 AM
Not gone.

Won't see Jan however.

Can I ask you to elaborate? negotiating pay off perhaps?

Dear Santa all I want for Christmas is.........

CC gone with no pay off. Doesn't deserve it.

RickyS
28-10-2011, 11:17 AM
Agree about continuity normally being a good thing however there does need to be some genuine signs of improvement to evidence it is working. Struggling to see it at present.

correct, he has enough time to at least be showing we are moving in the right direction, we can't stick by a ******* manager just because we don't want to switch managers all the time

YehButNoBut
28-10-2011, 11:17 AM
@ScotFootBlog (https://twitter.com/#%21/ScotFootBlog) Tom Hall
So Colin Calderwood hasn't "gone?" He's still here. Physically at least. Celtic away, Dunfermline home before AGM. Will the 'tache twitch?

:greengrin

HFC 0-7
28-10-2011, 11:23 AM
You're right, I am OK with CC and RP in charge. CC because the club needs continuity not constant change and, personally, I don't think any one of the 3 managers you mention could do any better with the limited funds available at Hibs. RP because, as per my previous post, I think the board at Hibs do a good job in difficult circumstances. Look at how clubs similar in stature to Hibs are performing without running up massive debts. Aberdeen & Dundee Utd are no better than we are.

What about Motherwell and St Johnstone? Less fans, less funds second and 4th in the league. Dundee Utd are in the same boat as us in regards to manager, although their chairman seems to be taking action. Any of those managers mentioned previously would have made sorting the defence their priority, Calderwood didnt, or he did and his choices were woeful. Sticking with a manager just for continuity regardless of how good the manager is crazy. Sticking with a manager that the majority of the fans want out, risking reduced crowds and income just for continuity is also nuts.

IWasThere2016
28-10-2011, 11:25 AM
Good Avatar TQM, RP having a Worthers moment.

Is it just me, or does Petrie like moustaches so much he's cultivated or grafted two more above his eyes.

It is a belter. He's chewing a wasp I think or impersonating Yogi :dunno:

Argylehibby
28-10-2011, 11:27 AM
For those on here that think that Petrie should leave because of his success rate in managerial appointments, can they perhaps advise what they would do differently if they were able to make the appointment?

Seek applications from those interested in the job?
Look at previous managerial record?
Speak to contacts that know the individuals who have applied for their thoughts on their ability / suitability?
create a short-list for interview
Interview 3 or 4 candidates?
Provide job spec and performance targets to applicants?
Seek references from preferred candidate(s)?
Appoint the one that ticks most boxes?

Which of these do you really think the Board doesnt do? What other steps could they take that they are not taking when appointing a new manager?

If managers come with a good record, perform poorly while here and then do well once they have left (Mixu for example) then that suggests the interview and selection process was OK, the manager is a good manager, but the issue is whats going wrong while they are in the role at ER?

sundo1875
28-10-2011, 11:27 AM
If we are going to sack him do it now so the new manager can bring his players in in january

Bayern Bru
28-10-2011, 11:28 AM
Most of what I read on twitter seemed to be fans hoping it was true and journos saying there were rumours, but they were just that.

Every time we get beaten, someone says he's resigned. I don't know whether it's a direct result of the business during the summer that people think he's more likely to jump ship after a defeat but I don't think he'll be going any time soon. Win the next two games/take four points and things could be different.

They won't, though.

sundo1875
28-10-2011, 11:29 AM
He is taking training now at em

Cropley10
28-10-2011, 11:34 AM
[/B]

correct, he has enough time to at least be showing we are moving in the right direction, we can't stick by a ******* manager just because we don't want to switch managers all the time

So true. It hasn't worked but the new man will have his work cut out working within our budget.

Thecat23
28-10-2011, 11:36 AM
For those on here that think that Petrie should leave because of his success rate in managerial appointments, can they perhaps advise what they would do differently if they were able to make the appointment?

Seek applications from those interested in the job?
Look at previous managerial record?
Speak to contacts that know the individuals who have applied for their thoughts on their ability / suitability?
create a short-list for interview
Interview 3 or 4 candidates?
Provide job spec and performance targets to applicants?
Seek references from preferred candidate(s)?
Appoint the one that ticks most boxes?

Which of these do you really think the Board doesnt do? What other steps could they take that they are not taking when appointing a new manager?

If managers come with a good record, perform poorly while here and then do well once they have left (Mixu for example) then that suggests the interview and selection process was OK, the manager is a good manager, but the issue is whats going wrong while they are in the role at ER?

I think you have answered you're own question here.. The problem must be Petrie then!! Why else would a good manager be gash with us yet better anywhere else? Maybe Petrie has to much of a say?

down the slope
28-10-2011, 11:45 AM
For those on here that think that Petrie should leave because of his success rate in managerial appointments, can they perhaps advise what they would do differently if they were able to make the appointment?

Seek applications from those interested in the job?
Look at previous managerial record?
Speak to contacts that know the individuals who have applied for their thoughts on their ability / suitability?
create a short-list for interview
Interview 3 or 4 candidates?
Provide job spec and performance targets to applicants?
Seek references from preferred candidate(s)?
Appoint the one that ticks most boxes?

Which of these do you really think the Board doesnt do? What other steps could they take that they are not taking when appointing a new manager?

If managers come with a good record, perform poorly while here and then do well once they have left (Mixu for example) then that suggests the interview and selection process was OK, the manager is a good manager, but the issue is whats going wrong while they are in the role at ER?

The board should have some knowledge of football , they have proved they know plenty about balance sheets and their own wage rises but precious little of the core business .

silverhibee
28-10-2011, 11:48 AM
Really, at what cost (££) would they come at though?

I can see a Bobby Williamson type of figure, the club is skint and we need to go back to basics and steady the ship. An old head to crack the whip, someone with plenty of experience in the SPL and the ability to get the best out of a budget which will drop significantly over the next 18 months.


If CC goes then Billy Brown will get the job. I am confident of that.


Davies gave an interview last week where he said that him and his backroom staff were planning there return back in to football, he did say his preffered choice would be to manage back down in England but did not rule out the chance of a job in Scotland, he would know that the OF wont sack there managers at this time in the season so he must be considering a job with the other teams in the SPL, why not Hibs, yes money could be the stumbling block but if you dont ask you will never know.

Regarding BB, i really hope not.

HFC 0-7
28-10-2011, 11:50 AM
For those on here that think that Petrie should leave because of his success rate in managerial appointments, can they perhaps advise what they would do differently if they were able to make the appointment?

Seek applications from those interested in the job?
Look at previous managerial record?
Speak to contacts that know the individuals who have applied for their thoughts on their ability / suitability?
create a short-list for interview
Interview 3 or 4 candidates?
Provide job spec and performance targets to applicants?
Seek references from preferred candidate(s)?
Appoint the one that ticks most boxes?

Which of these do you really think the Board doesnt do? What other steps could they take that they are not taking when appointing a new manager?

If managers come with a good record, perform poorly while here and then do well once they have left (Mixu for example) then that suggests the interview and selection process was OK, the manager is a good manager, but the issue is whats going wrong while they are in the role at ER?

Which managers have we had recently came to us with a good record? Re your point on Mixu, he admitted he made mistakes with Hibs and the experience at Hibs made him go away and re assess his views and tactics. Also I wouldnt say that Mixu has done anything special since leaving hibs. He is now at Finland who are no where near the team they used to be, they are well below scotland in the rankings.

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 11:50 AM
How can you be happy though with the way we play and results? his record mirrors that of duffy and we went down. I'm not saying we will drop but why settle for 11th or 10th? I've said before i don't care how many managers we go through as long as we eventually get the right man. We are playing some truly honking football here and you say the managers i mentioned wouldn't do better? that's a bold statement to be honest because i think all three would do a far better job. They have good knowledge of the SPL and all done well.

Petrie can do better, i fully agree it's not easy in this day and age but like another poster says marketing is poor. Just because Petrie just about manages to balance the sheets does not mean a new man couldn't do the same but bring fresh ideas as well. Petrie has done well in the past but i have the feeling he's out staying his welcome and should step away from us altogether.

I love the way everybody misquotes you on these boards! I never said I was 'happy' with things at Hibs, I used the phrase 'OK with CC and RP'.

This might sound like me being a bit pedantic, but I can honestly say I've rarely been happy (on the football front) as a Hibs supporter.

Was only 5 years old when we won the LC in 1972. Was defo happy when we won LC in 1991 and 2007. Only really decent Hibs side I have watched was Tony Mowbray's team. On their day they were a joy to watch (i.e. - 1v4 at Tannadice). If I have a criticism of the current board, I'd say it's for not thinking big after the LC win in 2007 but, even then, a lot of problems the board encountered stemmed from players being offered deals Hibs just could not compete with.

Forty plus years of watching Hibs tells me change for change sake hasn't worked. I'd let CC take the team right through until the end of the season and then take stock.

Haggis Hibby
28-10-2011, 11:55 AM
Sorry Beefster, but I don't agree. The bottom line is there is no money in the SPL. Even the old firm, who have defo got the fan base to generate funds, can't make end's meat (look at the mess Rangers are in).

Football is all about money and who's willing to spend the most on playing staff these days. That's why the old firm win the league title every year and Hearts are probably the best of the rest with, I hasten to add, a £30M debt!!!!

I think our board do a good job in very difficult circumstances and don't believe small improvements in the marketing of the club would make a significant difference.

:top marks The long term future of the club is more important than the short term.... You all sound like you want Duff and Grey back to break the bank :rolleyes:

I agree things need to improve on the park.... but throwing ££££ at the problem will gain us how many places?????? We still wont be near the Rantic or tarts spending so 4th???? is breaking the bank woth it for 4th???

Whereas in 2 - 3 years our sound financies should allow us to pick up better class of players and challenge not only the tarts but the old firm to cause they cannot go on as they are....

Football's bubble is gonna burst big style if sky loose there appeal against the portsmouth landlady.... A lot less money going into EPL and SPL will force loads of clubs to the wall.... and as i said before with us being on a solid financial footing we should be able to pick up good players and play a decenct salary level,,,,

So dont panic stay calm and things should work out...... fingers crossed :-)

truehibernian
28-10-2011, 11:58 AM
I have a funny feeling that Hibs would take a serious look at Steven Pressley. It would all fit. Pressley knows BB well from Hearts days and would not mind him being there as a number 2, albeit Alex Smith has been assisting him at Falkirk. Boozy is training the kids at Falkirk, who this season are developing a reputation as a good, youthful footballing side. So it could be shoogly peg time for Gareth Evans if that were the case. Pressley is absolutely vehement in getting youth through to the top team and having sides play good football. Also knows how to manage budgets, lives close by, him and his wife socialise in Edinburgh.

The Hearts connection would mean nothing seeing as Pressley has played for a number of SPL clubs (IMHO). He reminds me very much of Mowbray in mannerism, outlook and temperament.

Bayern Bru
28-10-2011, 12:01 PM
I have a funny feeling that Hibs would take a serious look at Steven Pressley. It would all fit. Pressley knows BB well from Hearts days and would not mind him being there as a number 2, albeit Alex Smith has been assisting him at Falkirk. Boozy is training the kids at Falkirk, who this season are developing a reputation as a good, youthful footballing side. So it could be shoogly peg time for Gareth Evans if that were the case. Pressley is absolutely vehement in getting youth through to the top team and having sides play good football. Also knows how to manage budgets, lives close by, him and his wife socialise in Edinburgh.

The Hearts connection would mean nothing seeing as Pressley has played for a number of SPL clubs (IMHO). He reminds me very much of Mowbray in mannerism, outlook and temperament.

And he'd be cheap.

Viva_Palmeiras
28-10-2011, 12:02 PM
AllModCons (sorry on iPhone and can't quote lengthy stuff)

Did Dundee utd think too big for too long - win cup and are in the doo-doo?

Fwiw I think as mentioned on another thread we may see a collaborative set of administrations to wipe the slates clean for the miscreants. Surely all clubs need to have an end game either way and this might just be it.

Crap for teams like Hibs who try to play by the rulesNd get shafted for it.

Gingertosser
28-10-2011, 12:03 PM
Steven Pressley......hell no

He sounds like Colin Calderwood doing an impression of Gary Barlow......zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Golden Bear
28-10-2011, 12:03 PM
He is taking training now at em

Ah well I suppose its comforting to know that the Manager and the Players still turn up for training now and again.

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 12:03 PM
What about Motherwell and St Johnstone? Less fans, less funds second and 4th in the league. Dundee Utd are in the same boat as us in regards to manager, although their chairman seems to be taking action. Any of those managers mentioned previously would have made sorting the defence their priority, Calderwood didnt, or he did and his choices were woeful. Sticking with a manager just for continuity regardless of how good the manager is crazy. Sticking with a manager that the majority of the fans want out, risking reduced crowds and income just for continuity is also nuts.

Motherwell & St Johnstone? Granted their current form is good, but both clubs have had a chequered past, just like every other club (including Hibs) in the SPL outside of the old firm.

Mixu was hounded out by the 'majority' then Hughes was hounded out by the 'majority'. Where did it get us as a club? Why is continuity nuts?

Elephant Stone
28-10-2011, 12:06 PM
Motherwell & St Johnstone? Granted their current form is good, but both clubs have had a chequered past, just like every other club (including Hibs) in the SPL outside of the old firm.

Mixu was hounded out by the 'majority' then Hughes was hounded out by the 'majority'. Where did it get us as a club? Why is continuity nuts?

Because blindly backing a manager for the purpose of continuity while ignoring everything else makes no sense. What if the manager lost every game? Keep backing him because we need to have continuity? How bad does it have to be before you need to change?

down the slope
28-10-2011, 12:07 PM
We have continuity alright, and it's all bad.

Cropley10
28-10-2011, 12:07 PM
I have a funny feeling that Hibs would take a serious look at Steven Pressley. It would all fit. Pressley knows BB well from Hearts days and would not mind him being there as a number 2, albeit Alex Smith has been assisting him at Falkirk. Boozy is training the kids at Falkirk, who this season are developing a reputation as a good, youthful footballing side. So it could be shoogly peg time for Gareth Evans if that were the case. Pressley is absolutely vehement in getting youth through to the top team and having sides play good football. Also knows how to manage budgets, lives close by, him and his wife socialise in Edinburgh.

The Hearts connection would mean nothing seeing as Pressley has played for a number of SPL clubs (IMHO). He reminds me very much of Mowbray in mannerism, outlook and temperament.

And it would noise up the Jambos. Good shout.

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 12:12 PM
Because blindly backing a manager for the purpose of continuity while ignoring everything else makes no sense. What if the manager lost every game? Keep backing him because we need to have continuity? How bad does it have to be before you need to change?

He's not losing every game!

We're 1 point off the top six in a very tight league! The only clubs (ex. old firm) who can truly claim to be having a good season are Motherwell and St Jonhstone.

truehibernian
28-10-2011, 12:13 PM
Steven Pressley......hell no

He sounds like Colin Calderwood doing an impression of Gary Barlow......zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Fabio Capello sounds like he is gargling mashed potato whilst on a mild sedative (in interviews). I don't really care what they sound like, as long as he gets the players playing football and winning games.

LALthehibeeGAL
28-10-2011, 12:17 PM
I think our board do a good job in very difficult circumstances and don't believe small improvements in the marketing of the club would make a significant difference.[/QUOTE]:agree::top marks


It's only a 'no brainer' if we get suitable replacements. Who's your choice for next mangaer and who do think can come in and do a better job than RP.

Personally, I can't think of a replacement manager (who'd want to come to the club) that fills me with confidence!:agree:

With regard to replacing RP it's worth remembering that the club made a £900,000 loss in the last financial year. Unless there is a serious investor out there, I doubt anyone could do as good a job as RP without running as into a serious debt situation.:agree::top marks


You're right, I am OK with CC and RP in charge. CC because the club needs continuity not constant change and, personally, I don't think any one of the 3 managers you mention could do any better with the limited funds available at Hibs. RP because, as per my previous post, I think the board at Hibs do a good job in difficult circumstances. Look at how clubs similar in stature to Hibs are performing without running up massive debts. Aberdeen & Dundee Utd are no better than we are.


For those on here that think that Petrie should leave because of his success rate in managerial appointments, can they perhaps advise what they would do differently if they were able to make the appointment? What other steps could they take that they are not taking when appointing a new manager? If managers come with a good record, perform poorly while here and then do well once they have left (Mixu for example) then that suggests the interview and selection process was OK, the manager is a good manager, but the issue is whats going wrong while they are in the role at ER?:agree::top marks

This is a point I try to make they have a good record and then it goes belly up at Hibs - I don't think it's money either as we have worked with more and less money - all these managers sold themselves and their credentials and looked like the ideal candidates and we all welcomed them (well most) - I don't think changing all the time is the answer as it just unsettles and every manager wants their own picks even although they are all good signings until they come to hibs!!! I don't like BB and think he will join JJ when he gets his next post, not at Hibs!!,


I love the way everybody misquotes you on these boards! I never said I was 'happy' with things at Hibs, I used the phrase 'OK with CC and RP'.

This might sound like me being a bit pedantic, but I can honestly say I've rarely been happy (on the football front) as a Hibs supporter.

Was only 5 years old when we won the LC in 1972. Was defo happy when we won LC in 1991 and 2007. Only really decent Hibs side I have watched was Tony Mowbray's team. On their day they were a joy to watch (i.e. - 1v4 at Tannadice). If I have a criticism of the current board, I'd say it's for not thinking big after the LC win in 2007 but, even then, a lot of problems the board encountered stemmed from players being offered deals Hibs just could not compete with.

Forty plus years of watching Hibs tells me change for change sake hasn't worked. I'd let CC take the team right through until the end of the season and then take stock.:agree: - I am not keen on CC but changing things will really not solve it - CC has a duty to prove we have NOT made the wrong choice - but get another assistant I say.


Motherwell & St Johnstone? Granted their current form is good, but both clubs have had a chequered past, just like every other club (including Hibs) in the SPL outside of the old firm.

Mixu was hounded out by the 'majority' then Hughes was hounded out by the 'majority'. Where did it get us as a club? Why is continuity nuts?:agree::top marks

TornadoHibby
28-10-2011, 12:27 PM
From the rodders school of finance it will be 8 weeks less money to find to pay him off

But he would have been paid the top line amount as salary over that period so don't think that is correct! :wink:

However, any compensation figure would be "subject to negotiation" so there could be scope to save cash there perhaps! :hmmm: :dunno:

Northernhibee
28-10-2011, 12:29 PM
He's not losing every game!We're 1 point off the top six in a very tight league! The only clubs (ex. old firm) who can truly claim to be having a good season are Motherwell and St Jonhstone. We are 9th.

Elephant Stone
28-10-2011, 12:30 PM
He's not losing every game!

We're 1 point off the top six in a very tight league! The only clubs (ex. old firm) who can truly claim to be having a good season are Motherwell and St Jonhstone.

Ah, no answer I see. What I'm trying to get at is there will be a point somewhere when continuity needs to be sacrificed. And I think that at having won 25% of his games in over a year, we're at the stage where we need to remove CC.

heretoday
28-10-2011, 12:30 PM
Come on CC - kick these slackers into action!

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 12:44 PM
Ah, no answer I see. What I'm trying to get at is there will be a point somewhere when continuity needs to be sacrificed. And I think that at having won 25% of his games in over a year, we're at the stage where we need to remove CC.

What do you mean 'ah no answer i see' in a sort of Sherlock Holmes manner?

It's 100% clear from my posts that I don't think now is the time to sacrifice continuity.

Elephant Stone
28-10-2011, 12:48 PM
What do you mean 'ah no answer i see' in a sort of Sherlock Holmes manner?

It's 100% clear from my posts that I don't think now is the time to sacrifice continuity.

Think maybe you should go for a lie down, are you alright?

How much worse would things have to be before sacrificing this continuity which should be valued so much? Once you've calmed down, of course.

Mickey Edwards
28-10-2011, 12:49 PM
For those on here that think that Petrie should leave because of his success rate in managerial appointments, can they perhaps advise what they would do differently if they were able to make the appointment?

Seek applications from those interested in the job?
Look at previous managerial record?
Speak to contacts that know the individuals who have applied for their thoughts on their ability / suitability?
create a short-list for interview
Interview 3 or 4 candidates?
Provide job spec and performance targets to applicants?
Seek references from preferred candidate(s)?
Appoint the one that ticks most boxes?

Which of these do you really think the Board doesnt do? What other steps could they take that they are not taking when appointing a new manager?

If managers come with a good record, perform poorly while here and then do well once they have left (Mixu for example) then that suggests the interview and selection process was OK, the manager is a good manager, but the issue is whats going wrong while they are in the role at ER?


ask them what their football philosophy is ?:confused:

allmodcons
28-10-2011, 12:51 PM
Think maybe you should go for a lie down, are you alright?

How much worse would things have to be before sacrificing this continuity which should be valued so much? Once you've calmed down, of course.

That's a really well balanced, mature response to someone who doesn't agree with you!

HibsMax
28-10-2011, 12:58 PM
Think maybe you should go for a lie down, are you alright?

How much worse would things have to be before sacrificing this continuity which should be valued so much? Once you've calmed down, of course.

Condescension is always a good way to debate a point. :rolleyes:

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

EDIT : I know "getting worse before they get better" is such a cliche and I am not saying that things will get better. But how long do people think it takes to actually build a successful football side in the SPL? This season did we not just replace practically the whole team? And because we're languishing in the nether regions it's time to punt the manager? I'm just as sick of losing as everyone else but I think I have realistic expectations. I am not saying this will happen, and I'm not saying I've seen anything to suggest it will happen, but I for one would take a crappy Hibs team for another season if it meant that we had a GREAT team a the end of it. A team challenging for the top two and European nights. No, I've not been drinking. :) Replacing the manager every year or so means starting at square one. It means we're back at the beginning. The whole argument about continuity is trying to avoid starting at the beginning AGAIN. Unless there is another manager out there that can make the current team play better football then I don't see any reason in replacing the manager again. There are things our players do wrong that cannot be blamed on them manager. Team selections, formations, strategy, etc. are all things the manager has control over. Shooting on target. Tackling. Marking. Passing. Throw-ins are all things the players are in control of. I don't think that replacing the manager is going to make the players pass the ball better.

The reason I feel the way I do is borne from personal experience. I know first hand that a person can be struggling but, with support from their team, they can turn things around. Binning someone because they're not performing to expected levels is not the only option, it's just a very popular one.

--------
28-10-2011, 01:20 PM
I think you have answered you're own question here.. The problem must be Petrie then!! Why else would a good manager be gash with us yet better anywhere else? Maybe Petrie has to much of a say?


That seems to me to be self-evident.

The question exercising my mind right now is who exactly is running our club?

I don't mean selling tickets, taking training, organising fo9r the AGM.

I mean, who's providing the vision and leadership every football club needs if it's to prosper?

Not Calderwood.

Not Petrie.

Certainly not Farmer.

The present situation is the worst I've known since I started following Hibs back in the mid-1960's.

The club is owned by a man who has no interest in football and who doesn't seem to be at all concerned at the way the club has drifted from one crisis to another (bigger) crisis over the last 5 years. Right now, not so much a White Knight as a Sleeping Beauty.

Day-to-day control is exercised by a board appointed by the above and his executive henchman Petrie. Calderwood is the FOURTH manager to be appointed by Mr Petrie, and the fourth to prove either to be incompetent and inadequate for the job, or (more likely, IMO) the fourth to find that Mr Petrie's influence in the club renders the job of managing the team effectively impossible.

We have a squad made up of short-contract men and loanees very few of whom show the slightest concern or commitment to the club or the shirt they wear. Supposing they were suddenly to find form and start winning games - in June we'll be right back where we were in June just past - struggling to make up a squad from free-transfer men and surplus-to-requirements (because not very good) players from the lower leagues in England.

It's not just that the present situation's bad. I can see absolutely no means by which the situation can or will be improved in the next 5-10 years. Not as things stand right now.

I see no direction, no real purpose, no sense of building for the future. It's as if Farmer and Petrie reckon that with a training ground and fit-for-purpose stadium, Hibs are now complete. What happens next? Who can tell? A sell-out and a move to Sighthill after all? Relegation? An empty stadium and a collective shrug of the shoulders from Sleeping Beauty, Scrooge, and the board while our seventeenth manager in 12 years stands in front of the press making the same old, same old excuses?

It's not just Calderwood. Nor just Calderwood and Petrie. There are three wise monkeys involved here - Calderwood, Petrie, and Farmer - each one responsible in his own way for the total boorach our team now finds itself in.

Bad cess to the lot of them.

Hermit Crab
28-10-2011, 01:25 PM
I still dont think he should go. I said months ago he gets to the end of the season for me and that hasnt changed. (avoids torrent of abuse heading HC's way):tin hat::duck:

HibsMax
28-10-2011, 01:32 PM
That seems to me to be self-evident.

The question exercising my mind right now is who exactly is running our club?

I don't mean selling tickets, taking training, organising fo9r the AGM.

I mean, who's providing the vision and leadership every football club needs if it's to prosper?

Not Calderwood.

Not Petrie.

Certainly not Farmer.

The present situation is the worst I've known since I started following Hibs back in the mid-1960's.

The club is owned by a man who has no interest in football and who doesn't seem to be at all concerned at the way the club has drifted from one crisis to another (bigger) crisis over the last 5 years. Right now, not so much a White Knight as a Sleeping Beauty.

Day-to-day control is exercised by a board appointed by the above and his executive henchman Petrie. Calderwood is the FOURTH manager to be appointed by Mr Petrie, and the fourth to prove either to be incompetent and inadequate for the job, or (more likely, IMO) the fourth to find that Mr Petrie's influence in the club renders the job of managing the team effectively impossible.

We have a squad made up of short-contract men and loanees very few of whom show the slightest concern or commitment to the club or the shirt they wear. Supposing they were suddenly to find form and start winning games - in June we'll be right back where we were in June just past - struggling to make up a squad from free-transfer men and surplus-to-requirements (because not very good) players from the lower leagues in England.

It's not just that the present situation's bad. I can see absolutely no means by which the situation can or will be improved in the next 5-10 years. Not as things stand right now.

I see no direction, no real purpose, no sense of building for the future. It's as if Farmer and Petrie reckon that with a training ground and fit-for-purpose stadium, Hibs are now complete. What happens next? Who can tell? A sell-out and a move to Sighthill after all? Relegation? An empty stadium and a collective shrug of the shoulders from Sleeping Beauty, Scrooge, and the board while our seventeenth manager in 12 years stands in front of the press making the same old, same old excuses?

It's not just Calderwood. Nor just Calderwood and Petrie. There are three wise monkeys involved here - Calderwood, Petrie, and Farmer - each one responsible in his own way for the total boorach our team now finds itself in.

Bad cess to the lot of them.

Good post, Doddie.

Who would be involved in professional sports? The Red Sox were "the best team on paper" this year and yet they managed to spectacularly blow the season right at the end. Things can fall apart at any level.

I don't want to blame STF for anything but it would be really nice to have a money man who cared more about the team. Caveat - I don't know how much he cares about Hibs beyond what I have read on this forum.

I have a hard time blaming RP too. People say all he's concerned about is money and the balance sheet but if that was the case then surely putting a great team on the pitch every week would help with that? Bums in seats = money. Poor football = less bums in seats. Less bums in seats = less money. It doesn't add up.

All of that said I have no idea why we're struggling as much as we are. I am talking about the last few years, not this season in particular. Maybe ER is cursed.

MrSmith
28-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Couldn't agree more with that Doddie!

Further to it: I can hande most things Hibs related if, and only if, we look like there is something about us in terms of application and enthusiam. However there is none of this at any level just now and as I said in an earlier thread, the players appear not to know football basics: passing, dribbling, tactics etc. And; this for me, is the crux of the matter and in another sense, has made me completely both apathetic and ambivalent towards Hibs at this point making it easier for me to stay at home.

It is a shame the way things are panning out but... you gets out what you puts in!

Franck Stanton
28-10-2011, 01:56 PM
Do you honestly think Petrie won't be involved in picking the next manager? Frankly I can't see what qualifies SL to do it either. Either way it better not be, ex Hibs player, Michael O'Neill.

Why ? Just what is wrong with Michael O'Neil ?

ScottB
28-10-2011, 02:20 PM
The board should have some knowledge of football , they have proved they know plenty about balance sheets and their own wage rises but precious little of the core business .

Out of interest, what clubs have Boards full of these mysterious 'football men' then?

I reckon most clubs have Boards full of accountants like us...

Cropley10
28-10-2011, 02:35 PM
Why ? Just what is wrong with Michael O'Neil ?

MON seems to appeal on two fronts; he's an ex Hibs player and he's done well with Shamrock Rovers. From what I understand not many Rovers fan would miss his brand of football, he's done well in a Pub League, so what qualifies him to be Hibs' manager? IMHO we'd not even be mentioning MON if he was an ex Hearts player although he'd be another easy and cheap option for Mr Petrie.

ScottB
28-10-2011, 02:48 PM
MON seems to appeal on two fronts; he's an ex Hibs player and he's done well with Shamrock Rovers. From what I understand not many Rovers fan would miss his brand of football, he's done well in a Pub League, so what qualifies him to be Hibs' manager? IMHO we'd not even be mentioning MON if he was an ex Hearts player although he'd be another easy and cheap option for Mr Petrie.

Where is this 'easy and cheap' thing coming from? Folk moaned about that after Hughes, we paid out a 6 figure sum for CC. How well has that gone?

IWasThere2016
28-10-2011, 02:56 PM
Out of interest, what clubs have Boards full of these mysterious 'football men' then?

I reckon most clubs have Boards full of accountants like us...

Which is a flawed model :grr:

bingo70
28-10-2011, 02:59 PM
Also paid compensation for yogi and mixu so this myth he always goes for the cheap option is nonsense

Elephant Stone
28-10-2011, 03:12 PM
Condescension is always a good way to debate a point. :rolleyes:

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

EDIT : I know "getting worse before they get better" is such a cliche and I am not saying that things will get better. But how long do people think it takes to actually build a successful football side in the SPL? This season did we not just replace practically the whole team? And because we're languishing in the nether regions it's time to punt the manager? I'm just as sick of losing as everyone else but I think I have realistic expectations. I am not saying this will happen, and I'm not saying I've seen anything to suggest it will happen, but I for one would take a crappy Hibs team for another season if it meant that we had a GREAT team a the end of it. A team challenging for the top two and European nights. No, I've not been drinking. :) Replacing the manager every year or so means starting at square one. It means we're back at the beginning. The whole argument about continuity is trying to avoid starting at the beginning AGAIN. Unless there is another manager out there that can make the current team play better football then I don't see any reason in replacing the manager again. There are things our players do wrong that cannot be blamed on them manager. Team selections, formations, strategy, etc. are all things the manager has control over. Shooting on target. Tackling. Marking. Passing. Throw-ins are all things the players are in control of. I don't think that replacing the manager is going to make the players pass the ball better.

The reason I feel the way I do is borne from personal experience. I know first hand that a person can be struggling but, with support from their team, they can turn things around. Binning someone because they're not performing to expected levels is not the only option, it's just a very popular one.

It's not, but after being compared to Sherlock Holmes in his post I think the criteria for what's a good way to debate a point is altered slightly.

Cropley10
28-10-2011, 03:31 PM
Where is this 'easy and cheap' thing coming from? Folk moaned about that after Hughes, we paid out a 6 figure sum for CC. How well has that gone?

Fair point. My bad. CC isn't cheap either AFAIK.

If I took out the 'cheap' shot (pun intended) does MON look like a good or bad option.

basehibby
28-10-2011, 03:39 PM
Would this not fall in line with Michael o'neills season finishing in Ireland this weekend?

I'd be very happy if this were to be the case.

MON has done a brilliant job with Sharock Rovers from what I can gather - taking them from also rans to back to back champions in the last few years as well as the phenomenal achievement of taking them into the the Europa League - anyone that made the trip to Dublin last year will know just how small a club they are and hence the scale of the achievement.

Being a former player should not really come into it although it does no harm at all IMO - in reality it just gives us a much better chance of landing him and I'd be happy if Hibs grabbed that chance with both hands - if he lands one of the other jobs he's being touted for and does well we may never get the chance again!

Speedway
28-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Is no one thinking MO'N to Saint Johnstone yet?

Frazerbob
28-10-2011, 04:35 PM
Is no one thinking MO'N to Saint Johnstone yet?

Just posted regarding this on the PM board. :wink:

DCI Gene Hunt
28-10-2011, 04:38 PM
Considering the past couple of experiences that Hibs have had with "Fans' Favourite/Ex-Hibs Player" I am very wary of taking that option again.

We're still keech but things have been better recently (most esp. since BB joined) so I am starting to think that perhaps yes, we should keep CC for the moment.

I still view him as an interim manager however, for the longer term we do need someone else.

Gene

HibsMax
28-10-2011, 04:59 PM
It's not, but after being compared to Sherlock Holmes in his post I think the criteria for what's a good way to debate a point is altered slightly.

Fair point. It goes both ways.

Halifaxhibby
28-10-2011, 05:55 PM
Never been a big fan of Calderwood, but starting to feel a bit of sympathy for him now, after the game on wednesday I couldn't believe it was the same team that came out in the second half, I'm sure now with BB in the dressing room those players were told to keep it tight as long as possible, yet, they completely capitulated from the kick off, what CC said was right after the game, we need men on the park for 90 mins, not just 45.

Incidentally, got home from the game and watched it again on telly, listening to nevin singing the praises of osbourne in the first half when he clearly neglected his right midfield position i think he should lay off the crackpipe!, there is no midfield at the moment, osbourne is a decent tackler but loves to play on top of other players, we've no width or shape and that was exposed by smelltic in the second half.
Time for the players to take some of the blame!!
You can lead a horse to water and all that!,

:grr:

whiskyhibby
28-10-2011, 05:58 PM
Am i missing something or is CC still Hibs Manager contrary to the hysteria on this thread...........:devil:

Franck Stanton
28-10-2011, 06:08 PM
MON seems to appeal on two fronts; he's an ex Hibs player and he's done well with Shamrock Rovers. From what I understand not many Rovers fan would miss his brand of football, he's done well in a Pub League, so what qualifies him to be Hibs' manager? IMHO we'd not even be mentioning MON if he was an ex Hearts player although he'd be another easy and cheap option for Mr Petrie.

You have obviously heard different from me then Crop, info I have says O'Neil is a very astute manager, has good man management, [something we are sadly lacking at the moment], tacticly aware [ yet another aspect we desperatly need], and can "read" a game and is not afraid to put his "Plan B" or even "C" into operation during a game. Yes, at present he is a manager in what a lot consider to be a pub league, but, the SPL is hardly a top grade league and the step up isn't too big. He has, after all, managed to make the Rovers top of the pile. At Hibs, he, arguably, would be working with better players and have a higher budget to sign better quality players. Him being an ex-Hibby, IMO is merely a "Brucie Bonus" and certainly not a requirement. Being realistic, there aren't too many other candidates out there with a better CV. Not looking for an argument here, merely expressing my opinion. At the end of the day, anybody would be better than the complete idiot we have just now who clearly doesn't want to be here and is "working his ticket"

blackpoolhibs
28-10-2011, 06:59 PM
He's not losing every game!

We're 1 point off the top six in a very tight league! The only clubs (ex. old firm) who can truly claim to be having a good season are Motherwell and St Jonhstone.

One point off the top 6, that says enough for me. If we were one point off third i can see your point, but have things got that bad where we see a top 6 finish as all we want?:confused:

Bishop Hibee
28-10-2011, 07:06 PM
No chance he'll go regardless of the score tomorrow. Lose to the Pars and it could well be a different story.

RickyS
28-10-2011, 07:11 PM
No chance he'll go regardless of the score tomorrow. Lose to the Pars and it could well be a different story.

if we take a hammering again then surely to god he has to go

SquashedFrogg
28-10-2011, 07:41 PM
if we take a hammering again then surely to god he has to go

Agree, I'm probably one of the most forgiving and optimistic fans you'll meet (all I want is a Hibs manager to be given time and build something meaningful) but even I have had enough.

I've always advocated that manager should be given a minimum period where they can implement there medium/long term strategy but even after just one year I just can't see it. Even under yogi we at least got a glimpse of where we could be ( near top & europe) but not once under CC have we been anywhere other than hovering above the bottom 2 or 3.

CC out and Michael O'Neil in!

(Ironically one of posts after JC leaving was to get him in when he was at Brechin)

nortonhibby
28-10-2011, 07:45 PM
No chance he'll go regardless of the score tomorrow. Lose to the Pars and it could well be a different story.

I Was about to crack open the champers when i seen the thread then i thought id call my insider who works at the training complex at Tranent.

Sorry folks the inside info is RP Stands by his man and CC Has seen signings for January that will improve/enchance our team money will be spent and its a 2 year plan.

heretoday
28-10-2011, 07:46 PM
if we take a hammering again then surely to god he has to go


Why? Who's gonna do any better? Arsene Wenger?

nortonhibby
28-10-2011, 07:48 PM
Am i missing something or is CC still Hibs Manager contrary to the hysteria on this thread...........:devil:

seems 1 year to go of RPs 2 year plan, pity there will be no one there bar him and CC to see the out come.:taxiNOW.

Jonnyboy
28-10-2011, 07:50 PM
if we take a hammering again then surely to god he has to go

I seem to remember Hibs lost 7-0 at Ibrox when Lexo was manager and he stayed in his job.

Not sure why I think that's relevant mind :greengrin

fatbloke
28-10-2011, 08:03 PM
I seem to remember Hibs lost 7-0 at Ibrox when Lexo was manager and he stayed in his job.

Not sure why I think that's relevant mind :greengrin

Do you reckon we will ship 7 tomorrow?

Surely not!

Possible yes but surely not.

nortonhibby
28-10-2011, 08:08 PM
Do you reckon we will ship 7 tomorrow?

Surely not!

Possible yes but surely not.


We went to Ibrox last season with the same mind set and the out come was Rangers 0 Hibernian 3 with CC In charge.
If he pulls the same result tomorrow then i for one will Back CC till end of season.:flag:

Alfred E Newman
28-10-2011, 08:10 PM
I seem to remember Hibs lost 7-0 at Ibrox when Lexo was manager and he stayed in his job.

Not sure why I think that's relevant mind :greengrin

Maybe because we beat Hearts a couple of days later.:rolleyes:

fatbloke
28-10-2011, 08:11 PM
We went to Ibrox last season with the same mind set and the out come was Rangers 0 Hibernian 3 with CC In charge.
If he pulls the same result tomorrow then i for one will Back CC till end of season.:flag:

One lives in hope:greengrin

nortonhibby
28-10-2011, 08:20 PM
One lives in hope:greengrin

i fancy a wee fiver on that result could be a very good Saturday night.:aok:

tamig
28-10-2011, 08:24 PM
One point off the top 6, that says enough for me. If we were one point off third i can see your point, but have things got that bad where we see a top 6 finish as all we want?:confused:

I think more than a few of us here have expectations way above our station. The dross left by Hughes has been cleared and we are rebuilding. It will take time and a hefty swallow of some realism. Still, I wouldn't expect anything else from you bh.

tamig
28-10-2011, 08:25 PM
I seem to remember Hibs lost 7-0 at Ibrox when Lexo was manager and he stayed in his job.

Not sure why I think that's relevant mind :greengrin

And we won the derby in our next game I seem to remember.

blackpoolhibs
28-10-2011, 08:31 PM
I think more than a few of us here have expectations way above our station. The dross left by Hughes has been cleared and we are rebuilding. It will take time and a hefty swallow of some realism. Still, I wouldn't expect anything else from you bh.

Why do you say that? Did I not support the last manager more than most?

nortonhibby
28-10-2011, 08:31 PM
I think more than a few of us here have expectations way above our station. The dross left by Hughes has been cleared and we are rebuilding. It will take time and a hefty swallow of some realism. Still, I wouldn't expect anything else from you bh.

BH Has seen our great club at the top not re building not in the bottom 6 the man deserves respect if you think CC Can acheive Cup wins And Europe then so be it i like BH Think he is a dud 1 Year and no progress in fact IMO He is worse than both JH And the Duff and Blobby.
the empty seats are the proof.:confused:

edwards
28-10-2011, 08:36 PM
i fancy a wee fiver on that result could be a very good Saturday night.:aok:

You better make sure no to miss your meds the night norton and keep that fiver stashed away somewhere safe.

PISTOL1875
28-10-2011, 08:48 PM
Never been a big fan of Calderwood, but starting to feel a bit of sympathy for him now, after the game on wednesday I couldn't believe it was the same team that came out in the second half, I'm sure now with BB in the dressing room those players were told to keep it tight as long as possible, yet, they completely capitulated from the kick off, what CC said was right after the game, we need men on the park for 90 mins, not just 45.

Incidentally, got home from the game and watched it again on telly, listening to nevin singing the praises of osbourne in the first half when he clearly neglected his right midfield position i think he should lay off the crackpipe!, there is no midfield at the moment, osbourne is a decent tackler but loves to play on top of other players, we've no width or shape and that was exposed by smelltic in the second half.
Time for the players to take some of the blame!!
You can lead a horse to water and all that!,

:grr:

I kinda feel for CC a bit as well.. When he came into the job , he was left with the dross that Yogi had bought.. X amount of players out of contract in 6 months and the majority of them gave a flying one about CC. All they cared about was not getting hurt and keeping themselves for there next move...

nortonhibby
28-10-2011, 08:49 PM
You better make sure no to miss your meds the night norton and keep that fiver stashed away somewhere safe.


Aye and you will no be saying that the morns night when i got 28 ti one on ma fiver.:flag:we did it at Ibrox we can do it again, Rangers are odds on a ken but:aok:

tamig
28-10-2011, 09:46 PM
Why do you say that? Did I not support the last manager more than most?

You did - and some might say you still do. It's very clear where you stand with regard to CC but what were your realistic expectations after the massive overhaul the squad had to undergo in the summer? Sure, there are a few positions where we are crying out for more quality but there was no way it was all going to happen in the summer window with the funds available. I think the addition of another three - maybe even two - decent quality players in the right positions will leave us not far off where we'd all hope to be.


BH Has seen our great club at the top not re building not in the bottom 6 the man deserves respect if you think CC Can acheive Cup wins And Europe then so be it i like BH Think he is a dud 1 Year and no progress in fact IMO He is worse than both JH And the Duff and Blobby.
the empty seats are the proof.:confused:

Sorry norton. You've got me somewhat stumped here. Who deserves respect? Who's not rebuilding (I think most of us can see we most definitley are)? And who's seen our great club at the top? I'm not much younger than bh and remember the Tornadoes fondly. Is that what you were referring to? As I said, a bit confused with some of your comments :confused:

Andy74
28-10-2011, 09:58 PM
I kinda feel for CC a bit as well.. When he came into the job , he was left with the dross that Yogi had bought.. X amount of players out of contract in 6 months and the majority of them gave a flying one about CC. All they cared about was not getting hurt and keeping themselves for there next move...

Sorry but what's this mythical dross that Yogi bought and if they were so bad why are the current lot worse?

Like all signings some worked, some didn't but there wasn't much dross bought.

When Hughes was here the argument was that he had good players and signed good players but it was his management of them that was the problem. Funny how that seems to have changed.

The form of the club since CC arrived can't be blamed on Hughes or his signings or the fact that players were out if contract which was the next ready made excuse.

And Tamig - what did we expect after a rebuild? Eh, better players seeing as we kept getting told the old ones were rubbish. CC had an unprecedented chance to renew the squad his way.

He signed 14 players and also decided to renew Stevensons contract.

Also we kept hearing about contracts running down and attitudes being the issue. Surely they are all gone?

So what's the issues now and why does this manager not carry the can the same way previous ones have had to much earlier during bad form?

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 09:58 PM
You did - and some might say you still do. It's very clear where you stand with regard to CC but what were your realistic expectations after the massive overhaul the squad had to undergo in the summer? Sure, there are a few positions where we are crying out for more quality but there was no way it was all going to happen in the summer window with the funds available. I think the addition of another three - maybe even two - decent quality players in the right positions will leave us not far off where we'd all hope to be.



Sorry norton. You've got me somewhat stumped here. Who deserves respect? Who's not rebuilding (I think most of us can see we most definitley are)? And who's seen our great club at the top? I'm not much younger than bh and remember the Tornadoes fondly. Is that what you were referring to? As I said, a bit confused with some of your comments :confused:

What exactly are we rebuilding? a squad that is going to need rebuilt again in summer? The signing policy shows nothing to me of rebuilding just getting from 1 season to next with no structure or long term plans. There was a massive overhaul due to contracts ending and what do we do, get in another host of 1 yr deals to go with the one running out, not rebuilding for me bumbling along yet again.

Yeah granted a lot of changes but not rebuilding at all.

blackpoolhibs
28-10-2011, 10:01 PM
You did - and some might say you still do. It's very clear where you stand with regard to CC but what were your realistic expectations after the massive overhaul the squad had to undergo in the summer? Sure, there are a few positions where we are crying out for more quality but there was no way it was all going to happen in the summer window with the funds available. I think the addition of another three - maybe even two - decent quality players in the right positions will leave us not far off where we'd all hope to be.
:
You won't be surprised to know I disagree. I can't see where another two players will make that much difference? Especially when you see who is out of. Contract again in the summer. I look at a team with very little quality now, and the best player out of contract in the summer. So we have another rebuilding job again. A whole defence please, two wide players and two forwards, that's all we need imo. Apart from that we are in fine fettle of course imo. Plus his style of play, his dull approach to talking the club up in anyway Dora nothing to entice any fan back. He's not the man for me, but you knew that anyway.

tamig
28-10-2011, 10:04 PM
What exactly are we rebuilding? a squad that is going to need rebuilt again in summer? The signing policy shows nothing to me of rebuilding just getting from 1 season to next with no structure or long term plans. There was a massive overhaul due to contracts ending and what do we do, get in another host of 1 yr deals to go with the one running out, not rebuilding for me bumbling along yet again.

Yeah granted a lot of changes but not rebuilding at all.

I think you'll find that quite a few of the signings since January are on contracts of longer than a year.

And is it not the way of the modern game - unless you're in the EPL - that loan signings and shorter term deals are the way to go? The unusual thing is to have more than a team full of players all running down their contracts at the same point. Then you do have to "rebuild". And so the cycle goes round...

Dashing Bob S
28-10-2011, 10:07 PM
I kinda feel for CC a bit as well.. When he came into the job , he was left with the dross that Yogi had bought.. X amount of players out of contract in 6 months and the majority of them gave a flying one about CC. All they cared about was not getting hurt and keeping themselves for there next move...

Don't feel for him at all. He's completely useless - by the far the worse manager I can recall, with the possible exception of Duffy.

He inherited a mess with Hughes, it was underperforming squad that had previously got us into Europe. He could do nothing with them, get no reaction whatsoever. So he failed at least as miserably as the previous incumbent, who by all accounts, had lost the dressing room.

He messed up his first transfer window and our close season by his dithering, and now he's managed to get rid of Yogi's mess, and build his own, which, if anything is worse, or at least he doesn't have a clue as how to get anything from them.

The man's a nightmare, and I can't be doing with the sheepish nonsense that 'Scottish football's in a mess, we have to take what we can get'. Why is it smaller clubs like Motherwell, Dundee United, St Johnstone and St Mirren seem able to unearth managers who area at least SPL competent?

NO HIBS FAN SHOULD BE SETTLING FOR A MANAGER WITH THIS DEPLORABLE RECORD!!!

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 10:12 PM
I think you'll find that quite a few of the signings since January are on contracts of longer than a year.

And is it not the way of the modern game - unless you're in the EPL - that loan signings and shorter term deals are the way to go? The unusual thing is to have more than a team full of players all running down their contracts at the same point. Then you do have to "rebuild". And so the cycle goes round...

I do not agree it is way to go, we are in this mess with by doing just that yes he signed players on longer than 1yr which proves that it is possoble, however he also signed lots on shorter deals who are key, sorry we are heading for a poor season and another mess in summer with far to much change again, that is not rebuilding in my book thats a disaster.

Andy74
28-10-2011, 10:17 PM
I do not agree it is way to go, we are in this mess with by doing just that yes he signed players on longer than 1yr which proves that it is possoble, however he also signed lots on shorter deals who are key, sorry we are heading for a poor season and another mess in summer with far to much change again, that is not rebuilding in my book thats a disaster.

Who do we have signed after this year? General question as I've lost track.

I'm assuming given the comments last year that the likes of Towell, O'Connor, Griffiths, Stevenson, Palsson, Stack, Murray and a few more don't care and will be causing us problems some time soon as that's what happens when contracts are running down.

tamig
28-10-2011, 10:33 PM
I do not agree it is way to go, we are in this mess with by doing just that yes he signed players on longer than 1yr which proves that it is possoble, however he also signed lots on shorter deals who are key, sorry we are heading for a poor season and another mess in summer with far to much change again, that is not rebuilding in my book thats a disaster.

Who are the key players on shorter deals? The only one I'd truly describe as key who'll be away is GOC. And there wasn't anything anybody at the club could do about that. we are lucky to have him at all. The others I can think of off the top of my head are Palsson, Stevenson and the loan boys.

And i didn't say that I thought loans and short term deals was the way to go - it's the way the modern game in scotland is going - and has been for a while. The main thing I hope for is the emergence of another golden generation and there seem to be a few who won't be too far away on that score.

tamig
28-10-2011, 10:37 PM
You won't be surprised to know I disagree. I can't see where another two players will make that much difference? Especially when you see who is out of. Contract again in the summer. I look at a team with very little quality now, and the best player out of contract in the summer. So we have another rebuilding job again. A whole defence please, two wide players and two forwards, that's all we need imo. Apart from that we are in fine fettle of course imo. Plus his style of play, his dull approach to talking the club up in anyway Dora nothing to entice any fan back. He's not the man for me, but you knew that anyway.

I think a quality creative midfielder (a Boozy type), a sound right back and a genuine wide midfielder who can play on either side of the pitch would really add something to the current squad. Just my opinion though. I think the bulk of our defensive issues are down to having no protection out wide.

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 10:55 PM
Who are the key players on shorter deals? The only one I'd truly describe as key who'll be away is GOC. And there wasn't anything anybody at the club could do about that. we are lucky to have him at all. The others I can think of off the top of my head are Palsson, Stevenson and the loan boys.

And i didn't say that I thought loans and short term deals was the way to go - it's the way the modern game in scotland is going - and has been for a while. The main thing I hope for is the emergence of another golden generation and there seem to be a few who won't be too far away on that score.

The key players Garry and possibly Griffiths are the only ones as the long term and other short terms have flattered to decieve showing CC cannot really spot good enough players on any contract length, we were 10th for a reason and doing poorly again for a reason. Lots of clubs get moving in right direction after 12mths we look no better really than 12mths ago, how long is this to take when we know we are very likely to be making big changes to squad in summer thus giving the excuse to bumble on.

Why the hell are we in this position anyway? because of massive failure above CC over last few years, what doesnt help is CC isnae very good either.

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 11:00 PM
I think a quality creative midfielder (a Boozy type), a sound right back and a genuine wide midfielder who can play on either side of the pitch would really add something to the current squad. Just my opinion though. I think the bulk of our defensive issues are down to having no protection out wide.

Yes they will help current squad, pity that due to signing policy we need to keep funds for summer due to the amount of players out of contract and so the circle of failure backed by results will continue.

justlikebrazil
28-10-2011, 11:04 PM
Also paid compensation for yogi and mixu so this myth he always goes for the cheap option is nonsense

I believe hibs are still paying yogi 4grand a week so for the moment it's gonna be hard to get rid of CC:fuming:

MrSmith
28-10-2011, 11:13 PM
A huge part of the issue is that we did not strengthen in June to ensure the whole team bonded and had a full preseason!

I really don't think some fans can actually comprehend how bad things are at hibs right now or how to sort it! It is way past an easy fix! Simply because, other than: Gaz, Ian, Lee and Louis, there is no-one playing for the shirt! Its absolutely awful and a reason why so many of us are so ambivalent - neither positive nor negative just apathetic.

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 11:20 PM
12mths might not be enough time to make all good and it probably isnt however it is long enough IMO for there to be some significant changes. We still have too many players on short deals and we are still not playing as good as we should 12mths on we are basically still as bad. We are heading for the same issues at end of this season as we did last. As far as football goes the running of the club is shambolic.

Captain Trips
28-10-2011, 11:24 PM
A huge part of the issue is that we did not strengthen in June to ensure the whole team bonded and had a full preseason!

I really don't think some fans can actually comprehend how bad things are at hibs right now and how it to sort! It is way past an easy fix! Simply because, other than: Gaz, Ian, Lee and Louis, there is no-one playing for the shirt! Its absolutely awful and a reason why so many of us are so ambivalent!

Indeed CC was in actually a very good position last season in knowing that he would get time pretty much regadless of form as anything less would reflect on board, so he had months to evalute be able to allow all out of contract to go and get in new players, all of this and it appears we are as bad it is pretty much unacceptable.

cabbageandribs1875
28-10-2011, 11:41 PM
I believe hibs are still paying yogi 4grand a week so for the moment it's gonna be hard to get rid of CC:fuming:


lol aye ok, so now we know why yogi comes across as quite bitter eh, i mean how on earth is the man gonna feed his family on a lousy 4k/week :rolleyes: he wouldnt even have got that as a salary in the first place so thats one helluva bonus hibs are paying him :greengrin

iwasthere1972
28-10-2011, 11:54 PM
lol aye ok, so now we know why yogi comes across as quite bitter eh, i mean how on earth is the man gonna feed his family on a lousy 4k/week :rolleyes: he wouldnt even have got that as a salary in the first place so thats one helluva bonus hibs are paying him :greengrin

If true then that's crazy.

How many other professions would sack you for being gash at your job but still pay you months down the line?

Andy74
29-10-2011, 12:03 AM
Who are the key players on shorter deals? The only one I'd truly describe as key who'll be away is GOC. And there wasn't anything anybody at the club could do about that. we are lucky to have him at all. The others I can think of off the top of my head are Palsson, Stevenson and the loan boys.

And i didn't say that I thought loans and short term deals was the way to go - it's the way the modern game in scotland is going - and has been for a while. The main thing I hope for is the emergence of another golden generation and there seem to be a few who won't be too far away on that score.

I think we have Stack, Towell, Murray, Palsson, Griffiths and O'Connor at the least who have less than a year left so six of our starting eleven.

If after signing 14 players we have one who is key then that doesn't reflect well on CCs signings.

Andy74
29-10-2011, 12:09 AM
If true then that's crazy.

How many other professions would sack you for being gash at your job but still pay you months down the line?

When you have a fixed contract. In normal jobs even when there is no fixed term it is not easy to move people on for poor performance, there needs to be a process to firstly support improved performance.

It's also very tricky to show that the manager is performing poorly. Unless contract conditions are not being met its pretty subjective and there can be a range of reasons from players to injuries to the overall club structure so that being able to cancel a contract without penalty is very difficult.

silverhibee
29-10-2011, 12:21 AM
If true then that's crazy.

How many other professions would sack you for being gash at your job but still pay you months down the line?


None, but it loks like Yogi is still picking up a wage from Hibs.

RickyS
29-10-2011, 01:32 AM
None, but it loks like Yogi is still picking up a wage from Hibs.

sure celtic do something similar, Martin O'neill remained on the payroll and Mogga had a similar issue
when he left celtic, something along the lines of rather than a pay off you keep getting paid as if u were still there.
in other words your services as manager are no longer required but you are on gardening leave.
when he went to Boro he had to agree to write off what he was owed to take another job.
if i remember right:greengrin

cabbageandribs1875
29-10-2011, 01:45 AM
If true then that's crazy.

How many other professions would sack you for being gash at your job but still pay you months down the line?



you would think someone in the media would have found out one way or the other, yogi certainly likes talking :greengrin

Bayern Bru
29-10-2011, 04:40 AM
you would think someone in the media would have found out one way or the other, yogi certainly likes talking :greengrin

Aye but they'd probably just think it was more pish from the same bag as

'Hibs are hard to beat', 'I had a plan for Hibs' and 'I can't fault the boys' (after being knocked out by Ayr/Kilmarnock in the cups, and defeats off the rest of the SPL).

:greengrin

HibeesLA
29-10-2011, 04:51 AM
That is how my contract is here in the US. If they decide they no longer require my services, then I still get paid every 2 weeks at the same amount until my contract ends.
If I find another job, the company will pay the balance (if required) between my new job (assuming that the new one pays less).
Yogi maybe picking up a similar arrangement where the club are paying a 'top up' of his wages.

BSEJVT
29-10-2011, 05:51 AM
Sorry but what's this mythical dross that Yogi bought and if they were so bad why are the current lot worse?

Like all signings some worked, some didn't but there wasn't much dross bought.

When Hughes was here the argument was that he had good players and signed good players but it was his management of them that was the problem. Funny how that seems to have changed.

The form of the club since CC arrived can't be blamed on Hughes or his signings or the fact that players were out if contract which was the next ready made excuse.

And Tamig - what did we expect after a rebuild? Eh, better players seeing as we kept getting told the old ones were rubbish. CC had an unprecedented chance to renew the squad his way.

He signed 14 players and also decided to renew Stevensons contract.

Also we kept hearing about contracts running down and attitudes being the issue. Surely they are all gone?

So what's the issues now and why does this manager not carry the can the same way previous ones have had to much earlier during bad form?

Possible first for me, but I agree with Andy (at least in part)

On balance Hughes's signings werent that bad and would certainly hold their own against Calderwood's

The main difference being that Hughes's signings at least proved at some point in time they could play together and consistently well (for at least a couple of months)

I still think that it was to some extent Hughes's management failings that undone both them and him.

I also think that Calderwood could claim at least partial exemption for last season, although that argument is wearing thin as the same faults that existed then are on show now with largely his own men.

More than that though I believe there is something deep seated and fundamentally wrong with the culture at ER

Its just not statistically possible that we can get the same issues with vastly different sets of players and managers if there is not IMO

I have no idea though what its is that is wrong

EasterRoad4Ever
29-10-2011, 07:12 AM
Sorry Beefster, but I don't agree. The bottom line is there is no money in the SPL. Even the old firm, who have defo got the fan base to generate funds, can't make end's meat (look at the mess Rangers are in).

Football is all about money and who's willing to spend the most on playing staff these days. That's why the old firm win the league title every year and Hearts are probably the best of the rest with, I hasten to add, a £30M debt!!!!

I think our board do a good job in very difficult circumstances and don't believe small improvements in the marketing of the club would make a significant difference.

The main point is that Hibs are punching well below their weight in the SPL, and have been for years. You don't need £millions to be one of the top clubs in Scotland, just an ability to maximise the resources you do have. Hibs have better facilities, bigger crowds, higher wages, more resources and are more attractive proposition than most other SPL clubs - yet we languish at the foot of the table playing football horrendous football.

All I ask as a fan is that Hibs make the most of the resources they have - no more no less. Petrie, the Board and CC have failed miserably to do that time and time again.

Kaiser1962
29-10-2011, 07:36 AM
The main point is that Hibs are punching well below their weight in the SPL, and have been for years. You don't need £millions to be one of the top clubs in Scotland, just an ability to maximise the resources you do have. Hibs have better facilities, bigger crowds, higher wages, more resources and are more attractive proposition than most other SPL clubs - yet we languish at the foot of the table playing football horrendous football.

All I ask as a fan is that Hibs make the most of the resources they have - no more no less. Petrie, the Board and CC have failed miserably to do that time and time again.

Currently we are but, when taken over the period since we were relegated, generally we are about right.

Beefster
29-10-2011, 07:55 AM
Sorry Beefster, but I don't agree. The bottom line is there is no money in the SPL. Even the old firm, who have defo got the fan base to generate funds, can't make end's meat (look at the mess Rangers are in).

Football is all about money and who's willing to spend the most on playing staff these days. That's why the old firm win the league title every year and Hearts are probably the best of the rest with, I hasten to add, a £30M debt!!!!

I think our board do a good job in very difficult circumstances and don't believe small improvements in the marketing of the club would make a significant difference.

Whilst I respect your opinion, in my opinion, it's that type of thinking that is part of the problem. Hibs have a 21,000 seater stadium and HAVE to do something to try and fill it to capacity (or else it is a white elephant). These days, they are competing with other family attractions and losing badly. What kid is going to choose sitting in the cold, crap food and poor entertainment over something geared totally towards entertaining them?

It's not 'small improvements' in marketing that is required, it's completely radical thinking and a complete re-vamp of the matchday experience.


:top marks The long term future of the club is more important than the short term.... You all sound like you want Duff and Grey back to break the bank :rolleyes:

Again, part of the problem IMO - folk who cannot get their head around that wanting change doesn't mean extra borrowing. I have never called for Hibs to spend money that they have. I want Hibs to earn more and then spend it.

Franck is God
29-10-2011, 09:00 AM
I've not read every comment on this thread but I have a few.

I'm not 100% sure about CC either but I'm also not ready to give up yet, for me last season was a complete write off after they sacked Yogi (a bit too early for me but its in the past now) CC came in, steadied things and made sure we were in no danger of relegation and rebuilt the squad in the summer.

I've not been overly impressed by what I've seen on the pitch (so far) but I do think we have a decent squad and the makings of a good team and for me he should at least get to manage the team against every side home and away before any real assessment can be made.

In the SPL the only sides that really show consistency for the whole season are Rangers & Celtic so if the board decide that they've seen enough after game 22 there is plenty time for a new manager to come in, put together a few results and move us up the league quite comfortably.

Even after saying this I have no idea what the board are intending to do but given the level of support they have shown so far I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is given the whole season and beyond as long as we are not in serious relegation trouble.

They've picked Calderwood to be the guy for the long term and hopefully they'll be proved right, the Dundee United board were right to back Levein after a pretty uninspiring first year in charge.

BEEJ
29-10-2011, 09:01 AM
Sorry but what's this mythical dross that Yogi bought and if they were so bad why are the current lot worse?

Like all signings some worked, some didn't but there wasn't much dross bought.
But Yogi excelled himself on the dross side in the summer 2010 window.

De Graff
Hart
Grounds
Duffy
Trakys

This in the context of him constantly harping on about his 'vision' for developing the squad. Ultimately his undoing.


When Hughes was here the argument was that he had good players and signed good players but it was his management of them that was the problem. Funny how that seems to have changed.
It certainly changed once Hughes had signed the players above and Stokes had left the club.


And Tamig - what did we expect after a rebuild? Eh, better players seeing as we kept getting told the old ones were rubbish. CC had an unprecedented chance to renew the squad his way.

He signed 14 players and also decided to renew Stevensons contract.

Also we kept hearing about contracts running down and attitudes being the issue. Surely they are all gone?

So what's the issues now and why does this manager not carry the can the same way previous ones have had to much earlier during bad form?
It's 13 players. But otherwise I agree with you. CC does now carry the can and needs to go.


On balance Hughes's signings werent that bad and would certainly hold their own against Calderwood's.
Disagree. See above.


More than that though I believe there is something deep seated and fundamentally wrong with the culture at ER

Its just not statistically possible that we can get the same issues with vastly different sets of players and managers if there is not IMO

I have no idea though what its is that is wrong
:agree: This must be the case.

BSEJVT
29-10-2011, 09:24 AM
But Yogi excelled himself on the dross side in the summer 2010 window.

De Graff
Hart
Grounds
Duffy
Trakys

This in the context of him constantly harping on about his 'vision' for developing the squad. Ultimately his undoing..

Beej

Wouldnt really disagree as in practice all 5 were rank rotten

However, with the exception of Trakys who was IMO a him or no-one else choice ivo the last minute timing, the other 4 at least had a decent enough pedigree to make them viable choices.

The fact that Hughes was IMO by that time mis-managing the squad to that extent however negated any possible uplift they might have provided and simply dragged them down with it.

I suppose though that the same argument could be made about Calderwood's signings viable enough choices IMO just not really doing the business

--------
29-10-2011, 11:51 AM
What exactly are we rebuilding? a squad that is going to need rebuilt again in summer? The signing policy shows nothing to me of rebuilding just getting from 1 season to next with no structure or long term plans. There was a massive overhaul due to contracts ending and what do we do, get in another host of 1 yr deals to go with the one running out, not rebuilding for me bumbling along yet again.

Yeah granted a lot of changes but not rebuilding at all.


That's my fear - we never seem to be getting out of the "clearing out the dross so we can rebuild a decent team" routine.

And this has been going on since Mowbray left - good quality players leaving and inferior-quality players replacing them, players signing on shorter and shorter contracts, increasing reliance on loan-players.

Is this the way that Collins, then Mixu, then Hughes, then Calderwood ALL prefer to work?

Or is it the only way they can work under the constraints placed upon them by the club?

And if that's the case, what ARE those constraints?

And who enforces them?

The board under the leadership of our new chairman?

Or the board and new chairman under the direction of our old chairman who seems to be much to much with us still?

And who appoints the board and chairman? The main shareholders? Probably. Let's see, that's Messrs Farmer and Petrie.

The only person right now who could change the things that matter is Farmer - the owner. Because whether all of us like it or not, the buck stops with him.

Tell me - would Farmer have tolerated an area manager working for Kwik-Fit who had had the turnover in lower management and staff that Petrie's overseen at ER in the last four years? No way. So why doesn't he get off his backside and do something?

The club is going down the tubes - slowly, gradually, but it's going down and the people in charge are still re-arranging the deck-chairs.

Or in this case, the brand-new modern stadium and the up-to-date training complex which seem increasingly irrelevant to me in the face of the incompetence and complacency of the people who built them when it comes to the small but fairly important matter of putting a team on the pitch and filling more than 8,000 seats in the stadium.

If something radical doesn't happen soon, these may soon seem like the Good Old Days.

RickyS
29-10-2011, 12:01 PM
Or in this case, the brand-new modern stadium and the up-to-date training complex which seem increasingly irrelevant to me in the face of the incompetence and complacency of the people who built them when it comes to the small but fairly important matter of putting a team on the pitch and filling more than 8,000 seats in the stadium.

If something radical doesn't happen soon, these may soon seem like the Good Old Days.[/B][/QUOTE]


this:applause: