Sendings off in Football and Rugby

[CFC]

Having watched the Wales-France quarterfinal and having seen MANY football matches ruined by sending offs I was thinking this weekend about the flaws of the red card in Rugby and Football, I came up with a theory. I think that red cards should be allowed in both sports BUT the team who is on the receiving end of the red (so Wales at the weekend) should be permitted to send on a substitute in place of the player who is dismissed, my rationale is thus:

I'm going to base my argument on the recent Merseyside derby. Rodwell was dismissed early in the 1st half, Liverpool of course won the game with a man advantage for the duration of the game (11 v 10) BUT subsequent to the game Rodwell's red card was rescinded. So in effect Everton were handicapped for 75% of the game all because the ref wrongly sent off a player. It was a refereeing error that Everton paid the price for. Under my proposal Everton would have been allowed to send on a sub in Rodwell's place (so it would still have been 11 v 11) which would have counted against them (ie. it would be one of their allowed substitutions). The benefits would be thus: Incase the ref makes a mistake the the game would not be reduced to the mockery of 11 v 10 on account of an official error. In the event that the player was correctly dismissed the suspension would be increased from the statutory 3 games to 6. In effect the player would be held responsible for his behaviour by receiving a lengthy ban rather than for example the 37,000 fans who packed into Goodison last month so see a game that was in effect decided by inept refereeing.

I know what people will say, that allowing substitutions to replace players sent off will encourage players to be reckless and dangerous because there would be no immediate ramification for their team. But there would, any player dismissed would in effect cost his team a substitution, no manager willl be happy if he is unable to make tactical sustitutions in the second half on account of one of his players being sent off in the first. Also with the increased suspensions players would be out of action much longer rather than the small 3 match bans currently in effect which are over in a week more or less.

Thoughts?

[Sylar]

Having watched the Wales-France quarterfinal and having seen MANY football matches ruined by sending offs I was thinking this weekend about the flaws of the red card in Rugby and Football, I came up with a theory. I think that red cards should be allowed in both sports BUT the team who is on the receiving end of the red (so Wales at the weekend) should be permitted to send on a substitute in place of the player who is dismissed, my rationale is thus:

I'm going to base my argument on the recent Merseyside derby. Rodwell was dismissed early in the 1st half, Liverpool of course won the game with a man advantage for the duration of the game (11 v 10) BUT subsequent to the game Rodwell's red card was rescinded. So in effect Everton were handicapped for 75% of the game all because the ref wrongly sent off a player. It was a refereeing error that Everton paid the price for. Under my proposal Everton would have been allowed to send on a sub in Rodwell's place (so it would still have been 11 v 11) which would have counted against them (ie. it would be one of their allowed substitutions). The benefits would be thus: Incase the ref makes a mistake the the game would not be reduced to the mockery of 11 v 10 on account of an official error. In the event that the player was correctly dismissed the suspension would be increased from the statutory 3 games to 6. In effect the player would be held responsible for his behaviour by receiving a lengthy ban rather than for example the 37,000 fans who packed into Goodison last month so see a game that was in effect decided by inept refereeing.

I know what people will say, that allowing substitutions to replace players sent off will encourage players to be reckless and dangerous because there would be no immediate ramification for their team. But there would, any player dismissed would in effect cost his team a substitution, no manager willl be happy if he is unable to make tactical sustitutions in the second half on account of one of his players being sent off in the first. Also with the increased suspensions players would be out of action much longer rather than the small 3 match bans currently in effect which are over in a week more or less.

Thoughts?

I can't understand why it just can't be validated at the time via some form of video review. A quick glance at 2 or 3 replays from a few angles by an official positioned in an upstairs room somewhere, who watches a replay as soon as it happens, then feeds his opinion down to the ref via the ear-com, surely removes any doubt.

All it would be needed for would be red cards, goals and penalty incidents in football. They already use it for scoring in rugby, so I can't understand why a quick review and comment wouldn't work for red cards.

[H18sry]

I can't understand why it just can't be validated at the time via some form of video review. A quick glance at 2 or 3 replays from a few angles by an official positioned in an upstairs room somewhere, who watches a replay as soon as it happens, then feeds his opinion down to the ref via the ear-com, surely removes any doubt.

All it would be needed for would be red cards, goals and penalty incidents in football. They already use it for scoring in rugby, so I can't understand why a quick review and comment wouldn't work for red cards.

When watching amateur football on a Sunday where is the upstairs room? :na na:

FIFA have stated that football rules will remain the same from grassroots to world cup's , and that is one of the main stumbling blocks for goal-line technology :agree:

[Sylar]

When watching amateur football on a Sunday where is the upstairs room? :na na:

FIFA have stated that football rules will remain the same from grassroots to world cup's , and that is one of the main stumbling blocks for goal-line technology :agree:

But junior games (meaning both amateur and kids) don't have the benefit of a linesman or fourth official. These games also don't have corporate backing and payouts riding on the outcome, which is to say, amateur football doesn't have a business outcome riding on the result.

There are so many arguments against FIFA's prehistoric stance, it's laughable.

[Gatecrasher]

When watching amateur football on a Sunday where is the upstairs room? :na na:

FIFA have stated that football rules will remain the same from grassroots to world cup's , and that is one of the main stumbling blocks for goal-line technology :agree:

well FIFA need to get with the times, theres millions of pounds and peoples livelyhoods being put on top flight football where amatuer football is just a kick around in comparison.

[CFC]

I can't understand why it just can't be validated at the time via some form of video review. A quick glance at 2 or 3 replays from a few angles by an official positioned in an upstairs room somewhere, who watches a replay as soon as it happens, then feeds his opinion down to the ref via the ear-com, surely removes any doubt.

All it would be needed for would be red cards, goals and penalty incidents in football. They already use it for scoring in rugby, so I can't understand why a quick review and comment wouldn't work for red cards.


Absolutely agree with you there, why sendings offs can't be referrred to a television replay official to me is absurd.
Imagine in the Everton example I gave earlier if Everton were relegated on goal difference this season. They could rightly point to the 2 goals scored against them whilst they had only 10 men on the pitch v Liverpool as being critical to the success or failure of their whole season. All due to a refeereing mistake, its ludicrous!

[sg7nil]

If it was up to me, I'd introduce a 10 minute sin bin for yellow cards.

For me, the main issue with suspensions from accrued penalty points is that they are rarely ever served against the teams that the offences were committed against.

[Sir David Gray]

When watching amateur football on a Sunday where is the upstairs room? :na na:

FIFA have stated that football rules will remain the same from grassroots to world cup's , and that is one of the main stumbling blocks for goal-line technology :agree:

That's just complete nonsense, I'm afraid, and a very poor excuse by the governing body.

Where are the linesmen in every single "grassroots" game?
Where are the seven substitutes in every single "grassroots" game? They don't even have the same number of substitutes in different leagues at professional level!
Where is the video evidence to retrospectively ban a player who has committed an offence that the referee has missed during a "grassroots" game?

There is far too much money now involved within professional football for this to be a valid reason for not bringing in video technology.

With regards to the idea brought forward by the OP, I just think the best solution is to allow teams to have a certain number of incorrect challenges per match where a video referee will be able to look at the footage and then a decision can be made there and then, without the need for anything to be referred to a committee several days after a match has been played.

[LancashireHibby]

Imagine in the Everton example I gave earlier if Everton were relegated on goal difference this season. They could rightly point to the 2 goals scored against them whilst they had only 10 men on the pitch v Liverpool as being critical to the success or failure of their whole season. All due to a refeereing mistake, its ludicrous!

Good, hope it happens!

Everton stayed up in 2007/2008 on goal difference and Bolton went down - the game between the two at the Reebok (first ever game at the Reebok, as it happens) finished 0-0 but Bolton scored a goal that was a few feet over the line but wasn't given. Was one of the first games that Sky used their technology to prove it had definitely gone over the line.

[milno1897]

I can't understand why it just can't be validated at the time via some form of video review. A quick glance at 2 or 3 replays from a few angles by an official positioned in an upstairs room somewhere, who watches a replay as soon as it happens, then feeds his opinion down to the ref via the ear-com, surely removes any doubt.

All it would be needed for would be red cards, goals and penalty incidents in football. They already use it for scoring in rugby, so I can't understand why a quick review and comment wouldn't work for red cards.


With regards to the idea brought forward by the OP, I just think the best solution is to allow teams to have a certain number of incorrect challenges per match where a video referee will be able to look at the footage and then a decision can be made there and then, without the need for anything to be referred to a committee several days after a match has been played.

Both been used in american football for years, technical wise footbal is the furthest behind in the world, but fifa are oblivious to this, i genrally think the two above ideas would make football an allround better game.