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View Full Version : entertainment is the key - hibs are dead



Hakim Sar
18-10-2011, 05:19 AM
basically, i am a hibby for life through blood and my own experiences. i actually go to my bed some nights and think ''what if?'' and i really have to say that I love the club dearly through connections with my dad and my family.

however, and this could count for the whole of scottish football, the game is dead. over supply of seats and lack of demand + high prices + quality is poor + crowds are poor etc etc

the world has changed and we will soon become consumed with only the premiership the bundesliga and la liga (possibly serie a too) and the world just doesn't have time for mediocrity like hibs and hearts and other very poor teams.

the world doesnt have time for the nonsense of the spl and soon the big leagues will rule and the champions league will rule like an NFL for europe. im sorry to say this guys but the world has no time for losers like the hibs players who earn a few grand and drink it and snort it up a wall.

SPL is over. enjoy hibs while they last this is probably a bigger threat than mercer. our community will not survive against global apathy.

PaulSmith
18-10-2011, 05:51 AM
basically, i am a hibby for life through blood and my own experiences. i actually go to my bed some nights and think ''what if?'' and i really have to say that I love the club dearly through connections with my dad and my family.

however, and this could count for the whole of scottish football, the game is dead. over supply of seats and lack of demand + high prices + quality is poor + crowds are poor etc etc

the world has changed and we will soon become consumed with only the premiership the bundesliga and la liga (possibly serie a too) and the world just doesn't have time for mediocrity like hibs and hearts and other very poor teams.

the world doesnt have time for the nonsense of the spl and soon the big leagues will rule and the champions league will rule like an NFL for europe. im sorry to say this guys but the world has no time for losers like the hibs players who earn a few grand and drink it and snort it up a wall.

SPL is over. enjoy hibs while they last this is probably a bigger threat than mercer. our community will not survive against global apathy.

You're not far off with that assessment IMO and there will be radical changes led by tv and finance over the next 5-10 years.

Geo_1875
18-10-2011, 06:29 AM
It might be true that Hibs, the SPL and other "minor" leagues are in serious trouble but if the worst came to the worst and they disappeared I wouldn't be very interested in watching the elitist foreign competitions. Barcelona, Manchester, Milan don't interest me. I only watch the OF derby in case there's a riot on the pitch. Wouldn't leave the house to watch Chelsea. For me it's Hibs or nothing (except maybe West Ham).

flash
18-10-2011, 06:31 AM
Nah. I was in the pub Saturday lunchtime and everyone ended up watching Killie V Celtic over Liverpool V Man Utd. The reason? It was a better game.

There's no doubt the product is overpriced in Scotland but things look much worse because we are so bad right now.

HUTCHYHIBBY
18-10-2011, 06:40 AM
I believe the OP will turn out to be correct, I think Scottish football has been on a general downward spiral for a while and wonder just how worthwhile the financial outlay on EM & the new east stand will prove to be when theres surely every chance of Scottish league football reaching the general levels of Welsh/Irish league standard sometime soon, money that could have been spent on the playing side of things whilst it was still a worthwhile effort to try and win trophies.

Kaiser1962
18-10-2011, 06:54 AM
You're not far off with that assessment IMO and there will be radical changes led by tv and finance over the next 5-10 years.

I agree that these are necessary and, up until fairly recently, have expected serious changes along these lines for a while. My position is shifting slightly towards the opinion that it is probably to the financial benefit of the "big" leagues to allow leagues like the SPL to wither and die. You see far more English shirts these days than you did 20 years ago.

matty_f
18-10-2011, 06:55 AM
I genuinely think that the clubs in Scotland need to draw a line in the sand with what we're prepared to pay players, cut the wages, make the game affordable, increase the top league size and reduce the number of professional teams.

Yes, we'll lose players to England but the players will wake up to the fact that outside of the Premiership and to an extent the Championship, clubs down there aren't made of money - they are all feeling the pinch as well and the players will also realise that there's a finite amount of jobs in England. Not every decent Scottish player is going to get a team in England. They only need to look at some of the players that are without a club now from the last transfer window to see that it's not the honey pot that it appears in England.

It's becoming more and more obvious that Scottish football fans cannot afford to, and/or are unwilling to, finance the players wages that they're currently getting. Nobody outside of Scotland cares about Scottish football so no amount of marketing is going to get Sky or another tv company interested in investing large sums of money into the Scottish game, so something needs to give.

The Scottish game needs to cut costs, £28 for an SPL game is an absolute farce. I understand why it needs to be that price, but actually the players need to wake up to the fact that the baw's burst. We can't afford for them to earn what they are earning, and ultimately that means the club can't afford for them to earn what they are earning. Their wages are dictated by market forces and right now the demand to see them is not there in anywhere near the levels it was a few years ago.

They need to wake up to the facts and start to become more realistic and reasonable with their wage demands. They have every right to earn as much as they can, and if they're a Steven Fletcher or a Garry O'Connor that can go to the EPL and make the good wages then good luck to them, but for the rest of them, they need to realise that they are not good enough to justify the big basic wages.

smurf
18-10-2011, 07:32 AM
Great points above. No doubt our game is in severe danger.

I would just add...

The world of football is changing in that the successful football teams (nationally Spain and club Barcelona) are playing attacking, passing football that is pleasing to the eye with 4-3-3 formations back...

And teams at our level are being successful playing this way. Killie last season and this along with St Mirren and Motherwell.

As was shown with historically high averages just a few years ago at ER under Mowbray and Collins the ER public will turn out to watch this brand of football.

Especially with young kids of our own.

In a league that we have no hope in hell of winning its the least we can expect...

bawheid
18-10-2011, 07:39 AM
I genuinely think that the clubs in Scotland need to draw a line in the sand with what we're prepared to pay players, cut the wages, make the game affordable, increase the top league size and reduce the number of professional teams.

Yes, we'll lose players to England but the players will wake up to the fact that outside of the Premiership and to an extent the Championship, clubs down there aren't made of money - they are all feeling the pinch as well and the players will also realise that there's a finite amount of jobs in England. Not every decent Scottish player is going to get a team in England. They only need to look at some of the players that are without a club now from the last transfer window to see that it's not the honey pot that it appears in England.

It's becoming more and more obvious that Scottish football fans cannot afford to, and/or are unwilling to, finance the players wages that they're currently getting. Nobody outside of Scotland cares about Scottish football so no amount of marketing is going to get Sky or another tv company interested in investing large sums of money into the Scottish game, so something needs to give.

The Scottish game needs to cut costs, £28 for an SPL game is an absolute farce. I understand why it needs to be that price, but actually the players need to wake up to the fact that the baw's burst. We can't afford for them to earn what they are earning, and ultimately that means the club can't afford for them to earn what they are earning. Their wages are dictated by market forces and right now the demand to see them is not there in anywhere near the levels it was a few years ago.

They need to wake up to the facts and start to become more realistic and reasonable with their wage demands. They have every right to earn as much as they can, and if they're a Steven Fletcher or a Garry O'Connor that can go to the EPL and make the good wages then good luck to them, but for the rest of them, they need to realise that they are not good enough to justify the big basic wages.


Great points above. No doubt our game is in severe danger.

I would just add...

The world of football is changing in that the successful football teams (nationally Spain and club Barcelona) are playing attacking, passing football that is pleasing to the eye with 4-3-3 formations back...

And teams at our level are being successful playing this way. Killie last season and this along with St Mirren and Motherwell.

As was shown with historically high averages just a few years ago at ER under Mowbray and Collins the ER public will turn out to watch this brand of football.

Especially with young kids of our own.

In a league that we have no hope in hell of winning its the least we can expect...

Good posts.

I'd add that Scottish football needs to try and make watching the SPL an enjoyable day out. Hibs and Motherwell and Hearts and St Mirren aren't going to win every week, so coming to the stadium and enjoying the day should be made a priority.

Paying ridiculous prices for manky food, being ripped off for the latest 4th strip in the club shop and then entering the ground only to find the game's finished because it kicked off at 12.15 for ESPN isn't the way to keep your fans. Especially when the team isn't winning.

7Hero
18-10-2011, 07:52 AM
last roll of the dice surely summer football, would make perfect sense...

Hibbyradge
18-10-2011, 07:56 AM
the players need to wake up to the fact that the baw's burst. We can't afford for them to earn what they are earning, and ultimately that means the club can't afford for them to earn what they are earning. Their wages are dictated by market forces and right now the demand to see them is not there in anywhere near the levels it was a few years ago.

They need to wake up to the facts and start to become more realistic and reasonable with their wage demands. They have every right to earn as much as they can, and if they're a Steven Fletcher or a Garry O'Connor that can go to the EPL and make the good wages then good luck to them, but for the rest of them, they need to realise that they are not good enough to justify the big basic wages.

I think the OP is pretty much spot on although I don't understand his point about over provision of seats. It's what happens on the park that interests me, not what happens around me. However, that aside, I too can only see a downward spiral.

Regarding your quote above, Matty, the players shouldn't be blamed.

If Huddersfield offer me £4k a week to play for them, why should I be "reasonable" and accept less from a Scottish club?

Pretty much every English League club can at least match the attendances of most SPL teams. Indeed, even the top 5 in English Division 2 are averaging more than everyone in Scotland apart from the OF and Hearts.

The cost of watching a game in League 1 is about the same as in the SPL, so once you add in the drip down effect of the TV deals, we can't compete.

I don't believe we can fix things ourselves. For me, the best solution would be the creation of a British League.

That would generate the variety and interest many people in Scotland crave, plus we would be competing on more level terms.

But, can you see the SPL or SFA going cap in hand to their English counterparts?

And, even if they did, how long would it be till their board of directors stopped laughing at the suggestion?

Nah, it won't happen anytime soon. We're goosed.

Iain G
18-10-2011, 08:11 AM
I genuinely think that the clubs in Scotland need to draw a line in the sand with what we're prepared to pay players, cut the wages, make the game affordable, increase the top league size and reduce the number of professional teams.

Yes, we'll lose players to England but the players will wake up to the fact that outside of the Premiership and to an extent the Championship, clubs down there aren't made of money - they are all feeling the pinch as well and the players will also realise that there's a finite amount of jobs in England. Not every decent Scottish player is going to get a team in England. They only need to look at some of the players that are without a club now from the last transfer window to see that it's not the honey pot that it appears in England.

It's becoming more and more obvious that Scottish football fans cannot afford to, and/or are unwilling to, finance the players wages that they're currently getting. Nobody outside of Scotland cares about Scottish football so no amount of marketing is going to get Sky or another tv company interested in investing large sums of money into the Scottish game, so something needs to give.

The Scottish game needs to cut costs, £28 for an SPL game is an absolute farce. I understand why it needs to be that price, but actually the players need to wake up to the fact that the baw's burst. We can't afford for them to earn what they are earning, and ultimately that means the club can't afford for them to earn what they are earning. Their wages are dictated by market forces and right now the demand to see them is not there in anywhere near the levels it was a few years ago.

They need to wake up to the facts and start to become more realistic and reasonable with their wage demands. They have every right to earn as much as they can, and if they're a Steven Fletcher or a Garry O'Connor that can go to the EPL and make the good wages then good luck to them, but for the rest of them, they need to realise that they are not good enough to justify the big basic wages.

Hey Matty, don't suppose you fancy a job running Scottish Football do ya :wink:

Problem we have is that it's turkeys voting for Christmas, until it gets so bad and clubs start folding, nobody will do anything even vaguely radical to sort out and preserve Scottish Football. IMHO a number of things need to happen:

The OF need to leave, regardless of how we feel about them they are the big fish in the small pond and the sooner they go the sooner the rest of us can get on with it.

Restructure the leagues meaningfully: Top division of 16 - 18 teams, Second division of around 12 - 16 teams and Regional leagues for everyone else feeding into the Second Tier.

Get competition back into the game, give everyone a fighting chance to win the league and get the excitememt and genuine competition back into things.

Impose max squad sizes and salary caps for the squads, get everyone on the same playing field so to speak, maybe even have the marquee signing option as per A League and USA league. Impose minimum numbers of Scottish players in the squads too.

Add in the winter break, rejig the league cup to make it worthwhile, and maybe even allow the OF to take part in the Scottish cup to make it more interesting!!

Give the game back to the punters, make it affordable and a good value and entertaining family day out, get the gate numbers back up and get people loving Scottish football again.

Otherwise it's gonna continue to die on it's feet :(

Gatecrasher
18-10-2011, 08:45 AM
A lot of good points being made.

Imo it's up to the SPL clubs to make sure there's competition in the league and make it an attractive product and at the moment they aren't doing that, the 10 team proposals are a perfect example of how not to do that, Untill all clubs are treat equal financially, the fans are treated with respect and competition is encouraged the SPL will continue to fail and disappear, I think the last point is more likely than my suggestions though.

matty_f
18-10-2011, 08:56 AM
I think the OP is pretty much spot on although I don't understand his point about over provision of seats. It's what happens on the park that interests me, not what happens around me. However, that aside, I too can only see a downward spiral.

Regarding your quote above, Matty, the players shouldn't be blamed.

If Huddersfield offer me £4k a week to play for them, why should I be "reasonable" and accept less from a Scottish club?

Pretty much every English League club can at least match the attendances of most SPL teams. Indeed, even the top 5 in English Division 2 are averaging more than everyone in Scotland apart from the OF and Hearts.

The cost of watching a game in League 1 is about the same as in the SPL, so once you add in the drip down effect of the TV deals, we can't compete.

I don't believe we can fix things ourselves. For me, the best solution would be the creation of a British League.

That would generate the variety and interest many people in Scotland crave, plus we would be competing on more level terms.

But, can you see the SPL or SFA going cap in hand to their English counterparts?

And, even if they did, how long would it be till their board of directors stopped laughing at the suggestion?

Nah, it won't happen anytime soon. We're goosed.

I'm not sure that I'm blaming the players but he one that really opened my eyes to the impact that players' wage demands are having was Kenny Miller bumping Rangers. Here was a player who has made an excellent living from the game, including two spells at Rangers. He was offered what most people would consider to be an excellent wage of c£15k per week, and rejected the terms. Now fair enough, he is perfectly within his rights to earn as much as he can, but here he had an opportunity to give a bit back to the game and one of the clubs that have given him a wonderful living, repay the fans for accepting him following his spell at Celtc, and all the rest of it. Instead he stuck two fingers up at them all and looked after himself. As I say, that's his perogative and he's entirely entitled to do so, but there was an opportunity there for one of the country's leading players to do some genuine good for the game, and he didn't take it.

The point I made above was that really good players will always be able to move for more money and to the top clubs, but you look at the guy at Dundee Utd (can't remember his name, but the United fans were giving him pelters when they played us) who hasn't done anything in the game yet and he's asking to be the top paid player at the club - that's the sort of nonsense that we need to do away with.

Cropley10
18-10-2011, 09:20 AM
last roll of the dice surely summer football, would make perfect sense...

What is the most Northerly league in Europe still playing Winter football?

TrickyNicky
18-10-2011, 09:45 AM
basically, i am a hibby for life through blood and my own experiences. i actually go to my bed some nights and think ''what if?'' and i really have to say that I love the club dearly through connections with my dad and my family.

however, and this could count for the whole of scottish football, the game is dead. over supply of seats and lack of demand + high prices + quality is poor + crowds are poor etc etc

the world has changed and we will soon become consumed with only the premiership the bundesliga and la liga (possibly serie a too) and the world just doesn't have time for mediocrity like hibs and hearts and other very poor teams.

the world doesnt have time for the nonsense of the spl and soon the big leagues will rule and the champions league will rule like an NFL for europe. im sorry to say this guys but the world has no time for losers like the hibs players who earn a few grand and drink it and snort it up a wall.

SPL is over. enjoy hibs while they last this is probably a bigger threat than mercer. our community will not survive against global apathy.

It saddens me to say but I was thinking much the same earlier today.

The crowds are low, less kids want to go, less Dad's and Mum's of course want to take them because they feel like they are being cruel.

You want to show your kids the excitement and passion of football, give them an education in what to appreciate of the game, to see how it can change in an instant, how any one man can pull together a whole team because the manager spotted that drive in him, that gift and desire - everything that makes you proud of your team and makes you want to show it off to your kids, the way yer auld man or your Grandad did.
Even if the football wasn't the best in those days, we didn't really know better because we could compete with England,Spain, Portugal even give Germany and Holland a good game, we would hump the likes of Norway, Sweden, Ireland and Wales.

Then it all changed and rushed forward with gusto, ambition, new ideas, building from grass roots, creating a new psyche and a new way of playing - the likes of Portugal, Spain started their kids playing Futsal, passing the ball on the deck, passing, running, passing , running, walking the ball into the net almost, no longer did Brazil have copyright on this style.

I don't live in Edinburgh anymore and I tell you, I miss Easter Road, the fans, the smell of the old East toilet ( please tell me they kept that smell at least ), the pride, all of it bar the football - the football is disgusting, I get up at 2 am on Sunday mornings or god knows what hour and then I skulk back into bed, the wife knows we've invariably been humped, she doesn't ask anymore, the kids still sing Hibs songs and wear the new strips I buy every year, they even make Jambo jokes at anything trampy, stupid, maroon or pathetic and they do it for me, has this what it's become?

We used to look up to the guys that went tae the fitbaw, couldn't wait to be one of them, I don't think kids are like that anymore and I don't think It's all Hibs fault either, it's just Scottish football, we are dying with a whimper though, whilst the likes of Kilmarnock, Motherwell and St Mirren give the beautiful game one last crack, we do whatever it is we do ( not sure it has a name).

As has been said above maybe Scottish football does need dancing bears, twitter updates, wifi, stripper- pole fitted Hummers, big jugs of Irn Bru to pour over managers, cheerleaders and Justin Bieber songs with Mexican Waves every 5 minutes because I see no way at all of Scottish football catching up with the rest of the footballing giants that we were once part of many moons ago.

Northernhibee
18-10-2011, 09:53 AM
We need a revolution at youth level, we have to teach freeflowing, fast paced and above all attractive football so in ten years time we have an attractive product.

I know someone who had trialled with a couple of SPL clubs as a teenager and was turned down as he wasn't an all round type of player, despite having really good creativity.

He's playing in the States at the minute, but surely we should be nurturing nippy, creative players and making that the SPL standard?

Hibee87
18-10-2011, 03:21 PM
My Solution is to make any kids i have watch re runs of barca games over and over and over, they can ram there thomas the tanks and peppa pigs the yWILL watch the re runs and learn from it. heck im going to the top with this idea and get it tought in schools, then and only then will things change. now ..... whos with me :greengrin

Hibee87
18-10-2011, 03:27 PM
on a more serious note the OP is right scottish football is deid and many many other leagues are going to go this way. Money is ruining football you only have to look at the ridiculous idea of aboloshing relegation and promotion to the premeriership haha....... the fact of the matter is when not if but when out league does go tits up liek the op said there would be only a handfull of leagues to watch, even the english league 1 down poss even the champ will suffer and in say 10 15 years time we probably will end up with a legue of champions competing over a season.

2 solutions to save ourselves would be a brittish league, i for one wouldnt object and you could still have a seperate scottish cup, fa cup etc and one major league cup it would attract more crowds and money defo.

second solution to save the entire football league would be to have a cap on foreign players i.e 4 players that are foreign would this work? i doudt it but it would stop the big teams packing the team full of foreigners and also a wage cap

sadly neither of the above are going to happen not before somthing major happens any way

HUTCHYHIBBY
18-10-2011, 04:03 PM
Legally you wont be able to have a cap on players from other EU Nations AFAIA.

Brizo
18-10-2011, 04:23 PM
Excellent OP.

Apathy is the key word. Not been all season and not missing it one bit. And its not because were rank rotten , used to go home and away with Bertie Auld and Lexo. Im just bored with the whole thing. Know plenty others who feel the same.

Were in a third possibly fourth rate league which only two teams will ever win. Entertainment and player quality levels are worst I can remember in SPL. Players are cynical mercenaries with an over inflated opinion of their ability. Managers likewise. Money has killed any notion of club loyalty. The clubs are trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of an ever decreasing fan base be it ticket pricing , catering pricing or merchandise pricing.

Unfortunately saturation coverage of the worlds top leagues on Sky and ESPN only highlights how poor and overpriced our fare is, while televising our leagues most attractive Cat A games at ridiculous times and with ridiculous prices does nothing to entice punters to attend.

son of haggart
18-10-2011, 04:51 PM
I think there isa little over-reaction on here, due to Hibs current position. Howveer I do think we are on a a particularly steep part of the slope to the end of the current set up, caused mainly by the recession and the internet/ availability of high quality product from home.

It's the same problem that local cinemas, post offices, blockbusters etc are experiencing - rising costs and availability of alternative products

A few things we could consider

A British League - Hearts, Hibs Aberdeen and a Dundee team would be better off in Championship / Dviision 1 than SPL, with the possibility of one team form that lot getting in the Premier every few years a la Swansea and Norwich

If not, then Summer football surely has to come - standing on terraces with a few pints in you all crowded together and singing and jumping was fun. Sitting getting your erse freezed off you as the wind whistles from the graveyard at East End Park ona below zero day in January y (my English wife's first and last experience of the SPL) is not.

Spread the money - keep the home gate receipts - would bring Celtic and Rangers down further but would make the league more competitive and would therefore sustain it for a bit.

Bostonhibby
18-10-2011, 05:01 PM
I think there isa little over-reaction on here, due to Hibs current position. Howveer I do think we are on a a particularly steep part of the slope to the end of the current set up, caused mainly by the recession and the internet/ availability of high quality product from home.

It's the same problem that local cinemas, post offices, blockbusters etc are experiencing - rising costs and availability of alternative products

A few things we could consider

A British League - Hearts, Hibs Aberdeen and a Dundee team would be better off in Championship / Dviision 1 than SPL, with the possibility of one team form that lot getting in the Premier every few years a la Swansea and Norwich

If not, then Summer football surely has to come - standing on terraces with a few pints in you all crowded together and singing and jumping was fun. Sitting getting your erse freezed off you as the wind whistles from the graveyard at East End Park ona below zero day in January y (my English wife's first and last experience of the SPL) is not.Spread the money - keep the home gate receipts - would bring Celtic and Rangers down further but would make the league more competitive and would therefore sustain it for a bit.

I think there was an occasion once before when I agreed with you:wink: and I am doing it again :agree: going for a lie down.

Phil D. Rolls
18-10-2011, 05:03 PM
I think there isa little over-reaction on here, due to Hibs current position. Howveer I do think we are on a a particularly steep part of the slope to the end of the current set up, caused mainly by the recession and the internet/ availability of high quality product from home.

It's the same problem that local cinemas, post offices, blockbusters etc are experiencing - rising costs and availability of alternative products

A few things we could consider

A British League - Hearts, Hibs Aberdeen and a Dundee team would be better off in Championship / Dviision 1 than SPL, with the possibility of one team form that lot getting in the Premier every few years a la Swansea and Norwich

If not, then Summer football surely has to come - standing on terraces with a few pints in you all crowded together and singing and jumping was fun. Sitting getting your erse freezed off you as the wind whistles from the graveyard at East End Park ona below zero day in January y (my English wife's first and last experience of the SPL) is not.

Spread the money - keep the home gate receipts - would bring Celtic and Rangers down further but would make the league more competitive and would therefore sustain it for a bit.

I agree with all of this. Particularly summer football. Scottish teams are so low in the cedings now that they are coming up against teams from counttries where the league is well underway. Is it any wonder we aren't getting past the early stages.

Like it or not, the only way to beat the spiral we are in is to start doing well in Europe.

The only other thing I'd add is that I can't think of any other serious league where the teams play each other four times.

HUTCHYHIBBY
18-10-2011, 05:03 PM
SoH, most of the time you manage to contribute some very interesting views as an "outsider" looking in on here, but, dont you think we are reaching a tipping point? Fair enough, you boys have got some record at home, but, i was in London a few weeks ago, happened to ask for Saints v Hearts to be shown in the pub, it got to the stage where I couldnt even derive much pleasure from the result cos English cricket fans were slagging me about the standard of Scottish football!

son of haggart
18-10-2011, 05:10 PM
SoH, most of the time you manage to contribute some very interesting views as an "outsider" looking in on here, but, dont you think we are reaching a tipping point? Fair enough, you boys have got some record at home, but, i was in London a few weeks ago, happened to ask for Saints v Hearts to be shown in the pub, it got to the stage where I couldnt even derive much pleasure from the result cos English cricket fans were slagging me about the standard of Scottish football!

I do HH - I just think there is a higher degree of pessism on here because of Hibs current position and the particularly poor fare on show for Hibs fans. Significantly Celtic, Rangers Hearts and Aberdeen crowds are about the same this year as last. I think the games up but it isn't happening tomorrow but in 5 or 6 years time, and it will come from a haemorraging of the medium sized clubs first.

I can see a couple of years of the current situation then rangers and Celtic forcing the issue that 'something must be done' from their usual selfish viewpoint. That 'something' may or may not include the next tranche - the main thing we should focus on is ensuring it does.

HUTCHYHIBBY
18-10-2011, 05:16 PM
Fair enough, SoH, we could all see it coming, but, HFC hierarchy still thought it prudent to spend £10m give or take on off the field "investments"!

son of haggart
18-10-2011, 05:41 PM
Fair enough, SoH, we could all see it coming, but, HFC hierarchy still thought it prudent to spend £10m give or take on off the field "investments"!

To be fair the decision looks more doubtful with hindsight than it did at the time. I have been going on for years about Hearts needing a 30K stadium if we ever want to challenge the OF duopoly. It would have been fine to have built and opened it in 2005 and would have ensured far greater income for the period 2005-2010. Now it would be sheer folly.

My guess is that Petrie and co committed to 'the plan' back in 2005 or so - when the opportunity of falling prices and revenue from player sales and the planing permsission expiry loomed it seemed like a sensible and relatively safe option to pitch in and invest. If they are to be criticised it should IMO be because the financial environment and context had changed by then , and their policy of saving up for the infrastructure was already having a negative effect on quality of entertainment and it was unlikely crowds would rise again for at least 5 years

You also have to be fair and say that Hibs have not been lucky with their managers , though I think the squeezing of resources (eg on length of contracts and wages) may have tipped the odds towards failure.

snooky
19-10-2011, 06:06 PM
Bottom line .....
I canny trap a bag of wet cement.
Why would pay £20 to see someone else with the same skill?

Johnny_Leith
19-10-2011, 06:35 PM
Split the TV and gate receipts equally between all clubs. You'd need a 11-1 vote for that, so everyone votes for Rangers bar Celtic, then all 11 other clubs bar Rangers will want a better share of the cash. 11-1 majority vote for equal cashola. Simples!

Kaiser1962
19-10-2011, 07:57 PM
I do HH - I just think there is a higher degree of pessism on here because of Hibs current position and the particularly poor fare on show for Hibs fans. Significantly Celtic, Rangers Hearts and Aberdeen crowds are about the same this year as last. I think the games up but it isn't happening tomorrow but in 5 or 6 years time, and it will come from a haemorraging of the medium sized clubs first.

I can see a couple of years of the current situation then rangers and Celtic forcing the issue that 'something must be done' from their usual selfish viewpoint. That 'something' may or may not include the next tranche - the main thing we should focus on is ensuring it does.

If you compare with two seasons ago. Celtic are down 7963; Rangers by 3101; Hearts by 321; Hibs are down by 3254; Aberdeen by 3471; Dundee United by 1641; Killie by 615; St. Mirren are down by 370 with Motherwell the only club showing an increase of 208 on their average of two seasons ago.


As a percentage Aberdeen show the biggest drop, followed by Hibs, Dundee United and Celtic. While you can understand Aberdeen and Hibs the drops at Celtic and Dundee United (given their recent successes) surprise me.

Iain G
19-10-2011, 08:27 PM
If you compare with two seasons ago. Celtic are down 7963; Rangers by 3101; Hearts by 321; Hibs are down by 3254; Aberdeen by 3471; Dundee United by 1641; Killie by 615; St. Mirren are down by 370 with Motherwell the only club showing an increase of 208 on their average of two seasons ago.


As a percentage Aberdeen show the biggest drop, followed by Hibs, Dundee United and Celtic. While you can understand Aberdeen and Hibs the drops at Celtic and Dundee United (given their recent successes) surprise me.

As the price of going to a game goes up, the quality level goes down, there is a big recession and people have to justify more than ever the price of going to a game, doesn't surprise me at all to be honest, "if you want entertainment, go to the cinema" has become reality for a lot of people :agree:

snooky
19-10-2011, 11:04 PM
As the price of going to a game goes up, the quality level goes down, there is a big recession and people have to justify more than ever the price of going to a game, doesn't surprise me at all to be honest, "if you want entertainment, go to the cinema" has become reality for a lot of people :agree:

Expensive ..... so, just rent a movie (which is much cheaper and probably more the done thing in these hard times).

Speedway
20-10-2011, 11:06 AM
Great points above. No doubt our game is in severe danger.

I would just add...

The world of football is changing in that the successful football teams (nationally Spain and club Barcelona) are playing attacking, passing football that is pleasing to the eye with 4-3-3 formations back...

And teams at our level are being successful playing this way. Killie last season and this along with St Mirren and Motherwell.

As was shown with historically high averages just a few years ago at ER under Mowbray and Collins the ER public will turn out to watch this brand of football.

Especially with young kids of our own.

In a league that we have no hope in hell of winning its the least we can expect...

Yet when Mixu insisted on a 4-3-3 we had him pegged on here as the clueless buffoon fit finn clown.

smurf
20-10-2011, 01:39 PM
Yet when Mixu insisted on a 4-3-3 we had him pegged on here as the clueless buffoon fit finn clown.

We were very direct under him. I thought our football was awful at times.

But compared to now...