The arguments for and against Calderwood.

[blackpoolhibs]

As i see it, the argument for keeping him has always been he needs time. Thats all well and good, but imo we need to be thrown a crumb now and then to keep backing the man, we need to see a little light at the end of the tunnel.

Does anyone see any light, even a small flicker?

Arguments against are easy, results, performances, non commitment, dull uninspiring they have all played a part in folk deserting the club.

How long can this go on before the club act?

[bingo70]

As i see it, the argument for keeping him has always been he needs time. Thats all well and good, but imo we need to be thrown a crumb now and then to keep backing the man, we need to see a little light at the end of the tunnel.

Does anyone see any light, even a small flicker?

Arguments against are easy, results, performances, non commitment, dull uninspiring they have all played a part in folk deserting the club.

How long can this go on before the club act?

My argument has been we can't keep changing managers and it can't always be the managers fault as we keep changing them with no difference to results or performances.

I accept though that argument has run out and a change is needed.

[Bostonhibby]

On the plus side, I don't think he spent the money building the latest stand, very nice though it is.

[matty_f]

My argument has been we can't keep changing managers and it can't always be the managers fault as we keep changing them with no difference to results or performances.

I accept though that argument has run out and a change is needed.

I am inclined to agree with you bingo, really the only thing that would persuade me that CC deserved much longer would be if there were signs of a root and branch overhaul at the club - essentially if we could see what he's progressed at the club and how he expects it to pay dividends, then I think the argument about not changing managers all the time would still have some weight behind it.

As it is, though, we do not appear to be improving much at all, and when there are signs they are there for moments and then we're back to the schoolboy performances like yesterday.

[bingo70]

I am inclined to agree with you bingo, really the only thing that would persuade me that CC deserved much longer would be if there were signs of a root and branch overhaul at the club - essentially if we could see what he's progressed at the club and how he expects it to pay dividends, then I think the argument about not changing managers all the time would still have some weight behind it.

As it is, though, we do not appear to be improving much at all, and when there are signs they are there for moments and then we're back to the schoolboy performances like yesterday.

It's not even like he can say he's building for the future as after what we saw in the summer i think it's pretty obvious he's no intention of signing a new contract when it expires, even if things do improve.

His appointment has just been an absolute disaster from the start

[SkintHibby]

There are no arguments in favour of Calderwood. Punt him now before we are relegated.

[Northernhibee]

Cc is in my opinion far worse than Duff Jimmy.

He inherited Riordan, Zemmama, Miller, Stack, Murray, Bamba, makings of a foundation to build upon.

We also got in Sodje, Gaz, Sproule, Griffiths, Osbourne, Pallson, Agogo...this is in no way a team that should be staring at relegation.

Get him right to ****.

[blackpoolhibs]

I am inclined to agree with you bingo, really the only thing that would persuade me that CC deserved much longer would be if there were signs of a root and branch overhaul at the club - essentially if we could see what he's progressed at the club and how he expects it to pay dividends, then I think the argument about not changing managers all the time would still have some weight behind it.

As it is, though, we do not appear to be improving much at all, and when there are signs they are there for moments and then we're back to the schoolboy performances like yesterday.

This is a point put across by some that i just dont get? Of course there have been the odd game where we have won, inverness away comes to mind. Where we are all happy we won, and its a sign of progression.

Yet when Hughes team won, and had his team sitting third, it was all luck?

Progression is imo a team that wins, plays good attractive football and crowds grow as people are enjoying what they see.

Calderwoods team have the opposite effect, but is not getting half the stick Hughes did.

Hughes deserved to go, his results from February were terrible and Petrie acted swiftly. Calderwoods results are worse, the footballs worse, the team are worse and crowds are turning their backs on the club. Why the double standards, why has he not been punted?

[matty_f]

Cc is in my opinion far worse than Duff Jimmy.

He inherited Riordan, Zemmama, Miller, Stack, Murray, Bamba, makings of a foundation to build upon.

We also got in Sodje, Gaz, Sproule, Griffiths, Osbourne, Pallson, Agogo...this is in no way a team that should be staring at relegation.

Get him right to ****.

Agree with the sentiment, but Zouma and Bamba were long gone by the time CC came in.

[Northernhibee]

Agree with the sentiment, but Zouma and Bamba were long gone by the time CC came in. He still had them for a handful of months (3 I think) and it's tough to see what plans he'd made for their departure (apart from getting Kojak to play in Central defense six months on.

[Forza Fred]

I bear the man no personal animosity.

However, even Calderwood must now appreciate that despite his best efforts, it is simply not working, and that there is nothing on the horizon that is going to suddenly turn things around.

Sometimes, just like some marraiges, it is simply not meant to be, and it is in everyone's best interests if the partnership is dissolved, and quickly .

For Gawd's sake Petrie put the man, and us long suffering supporters out of our mysery and enact the divorce.

It may cause some short term angst, but long term everybody will be better off for it.

[Bostonhibby]

This is a point put across by some that i just dont get? Of course there have been the odd game where we have won, inverness away comes to mind. Where we are all happy we won, and its a sign of progression.

Yet when Hughes team won, and had his team sitting third, it was all luck?

Progression is imo a team that wins, plays good attractive football and crowds grow as people are enjoying what they see.

Calderwoods team have the opposite effect, but is not getting half the stick Hughes did.

Hughes deserved to go, his results from February were terrible and Petrie acted swiftly. Calderwoods results are worse, the footballs worse, the team are worse and crowds are turning their backs on the club. Why the double standards, why has he not been punted?

I do agree with this, I think the fact that Calderwood has certainly been subject to less pressure for longer is simply down to the fear of what actually happens next, probably from both the board and the fans who are still trying to back him.

I hoped against hope that he would turn it round but it's not realy happening for whatever reason, but I am seriously concerned about how far back the next phase of the managerial and squad merry go round is going to set us. We have been doing player clear outs too frequently and another one is likely when the manager changes again.

That said Yogi had to go, and I was backing him for longer than most.

[Saorsa]

Reasons for him tae stay 0
Reasons against him staying, too numerous tae mention :bye: :taxi

[Casey1875]

This is a point put across by some that i just dont get? Of course there have been the odd game where we have won, inverness away comes to mind. Where we are all happy we won, and its a sign of progression.Yet when Hughes team won, and had his team sitting third, it was all luck? Progression is imo a team that wins, plays good attractive football and crowds grow as people are enjoying what they see.Calderwoods team have the opposite effect, but is not getting half the stick Hughes did.Hughes deserved to go, his results from February were terrible and Petrie acted swiftly. Calderwoods results are worse, the footballs worse, the team are worse and crowds are turning their backs on the club. Why the double standards, why has he not been punted? I asked the board about this just after the appointment of bb. I was told that all managers get the same backing. Glad it wasn't just me who had noticed this.

[Casey1875]

This is a point put across by some that i just dont get? Of course there have been the odd game where we have won, inverness away comes to mind. Where we are all happy we won, and its a sign of progression.Yet when Hughes team won, and had his team sitting third, it was all luck? Progression is imo a team that wins, plays good attractive football and crowds grow as people are enjoying what they see.Calderwoods team have the opposite effect, but is not getting half the stick Hughes did.Hughes deserved to go, his results from February were terrible and Petrie acted swiftly. Calderwoods results are worse, the footballs worse, the team are worse and crowds are turning their backs on the club. Why the double standards, why has he not been punted? I asked the board about this just after the appointment of bb. I was told that all managers get the same backing. Glad it wasn't just me who had noticed this.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The arguement for him to stay is that if we fire A.N.Other we are missing the root of the problem and hence we will be in this place again. Look at Derek Adams. Talented manager without a doubt. Has taken a Ross County team from its' knees and put them top of the pile. He smelled something rank at ER and wanted out. Not the smell you get from dodgy bin but when you need to get builders in to dig deep and you know it will cost. What makes this more compelling for me is the body language of those players yesterday. Not interested. Looked completely hacked off, trotting around in that cash cow of a new strip with as much commitment to the cause as those boys you see holding up the golf sale signs on a busy high street.

[TowerHibs]

Even if we did replace him, some "supporters" would automatically not accept the new man. I think the board who try get bollan or jimmy Calderwood - ignoring his cv and just not liking him because he shouldn't be at Hibs, this mega successful sleeping giant in a pish league. Although CC is not the man, we need to have a massive reality check

[blackpoolhibs]

Even if we did replace him, some "supporters" would automatically not accept the new man. I think the board who try get bollan or jimmy Calderwood - ignoring his cv and just not liking him because he shouldn't be at Hibs, this mega successful sleeping giant in a pish league. Although CC is not the man, we need to have a massive reality check

If Calderwood had us sitting in 4th or 3rd, he'd be the new messiah, anyone who did that would get the same plaudits, well maybe not Yogi i suppose.

[Gatecrasher]

the thing i dislike about this the most is that at the end of all this he will get a good pay off from hibs, something he in no way deserves IMO

[Elephant Stone]

Cc is in my opinion far worse than Duff Jimmy.

He inherited Riordan, Zemmama, Miller, Stack, Murray, Bamba, makings of a foundation to build upon.

We also got in Sodje, Gaz, Sproule, Griffiths, Osbourne, Pallson, Agogo...this is in no way a team that should be staring at relegation.

Get him right to ****.

I don't think that's fair, he inherited a mess. He's got us in a worse mess at the moment and without a shadow of a doubt needs to be sacked but he never had a foundation to build on, we've been piss for a long time.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think that's fair, he inherited a mess. He's got us in a worse mess at the moment and without a shadow of a doubt needs to be sacked but he never had a foundation to build on, we've been piss for a long time.

I dont agree, but if i give you the benefit of the doubt, he surely must have had an easy job improving the team? Quality over quantity was what he wanted, where is the evidence he did this?

[tamig]

As i see it, the argument for keeping him has always been he needs time. Thats all well and good, but imo we need to be thrown a crumb now and then to keep backing the man, we need to see a little light at the end of the tunnel.

Does anyone see any light, even a small flicker?

Arguments against are easy, results, performances, non commitment, dull uninspiring they have all played a part in folk deserting the club.

How long can this go on before the club act?

What a shocker. Blackpool comes up with yet another thread debating whether or not CC should be booted. How tiresome.... :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

What a shocker. Blackpool comes up with yet another thread debating whether or not CC should be booted. How tiresome.... :rolleyes:

To be fair, i dont remember any of your posts.
Tell me why he should stay then?

[tamig]

To be fair, i dont remember any of your posts.
Tell me why he should stay then?

I never gave an opinion as to whether or not he should be bumped. I don't know how many threads you've started on the same subject though. That's what I find tiresome.

However, since you ask, I am still willing to give CC until the end of the year. If we are still where we are now, then I would agree it would be time for him to go.

I have seen some good signs over the past month or so of an improvement, and I think the first half yesterday was just one of those "bad days at the office". I don't think the club can afford to pay big compo getting shot of him now, but the next few months may determine they will have to bite the bullet and do just that.

[Northernhibee]

I never gave an opinion as to whether or not he should be bumped. I don't know how many threads you've started on the same subject though. That's what I find tiresome.However, since you ask, I am still willing to give CC until the end of the year. If we are still where we are now, then I would agree it would be time for him to go.I have seen some good signs over the past month or so of an improvement, and I think the first half yesterday was just one of those "bad days at the office". I don't think the club can afford to pay big compo getting shot of him now, but the next few months may determine they will have to bite the bullet and do just that. More like 'a ****ing shocking 12 months at the office".If we give CC untill Christmas, will you be looking forward to playing the likes of Ayr and other 1st division sides?

[silverhibee]

This is a point put across by some that i just dont get? Of course there have been the odd game where we have won, inverness away comes to mind. Where we are all happy we won, and its a sign of progression.

Yet when Hughes team won, and had his team sitting third, it was all luck?

Progression is imo a team that wins, plays good attractive football and crowds grow as people are enjoying what they see.

Calderwoods team have the opposite effect, but is not getting half the stick Hughes did.Hughes deserved to go, his results from February were terrible and Petrie acted swiftly. Calderwoods results are worse, the footballs worse, the team are worse and crowds are turning their backs on the club. Why the double standards, why has he not been punted?


And that is the baffling part BH, how the Hibs fans haven't turned on CC is unbelievable compared to the treatment that was handed out to Yogi and Mixu for there bad spells at the club, have the Hibs fans gave up on the club that they cant even be bothered shouting for CC removal from the club, Petrie has and still is backing CC and the fans know that Petrie pulls the strings at ER, its his call and the Hibs fans know this and with RP not going anywhere soon it looks like wee may be stuck with CC while RP is at the club.

The pressure needs to be put on RP if wee want a new man in charge of the team and that should start with the game against St Mirren next week, some sort of protest to show the Board and manager that wee wont tolerate the rubbish that is being served up to us week after week, i know a lot of fans are voting with there feet and not coming along to watch Hibs anymore, i will always go and watch the team but it doesn't mean i am happy with the way things are going at Hibs and the only way to put that over to the club when at the games is to be loud enough to let the people who are running our club that wee are not happy and haven't been for a long time now.

CC needs to go that is quite obvious now, but i also think time is up for Rod Petrie as well, his backing of CC over the summer was an embarassment to the club and fans, and dont get me started on his joke of a statement to the fans backing CC regarding winning five games in a row but forgot to mention the other games where wee were tom kite.


One for CC, :taxi and another for RP, :taxi, there time is up at Hibernian FC.

[smurf]

The guy is a loser.

His record of results is hugely embarrassing. It's on a par with Jim Duffy.

He doesn't at all appear to me to be hurting. His professional pride doesn't appear to me to be dented. I'm not saying I want him punching the dugout like Hughes or constantly arguing with officials like Mixu but surely its only human to look frustrated?

I've concluded he simply doesn't care. He's working his ticket knowing he will get a nice wee pay off. I've no doubt after ER he won't be a manager again. He's at best a number two.

What is quite remarkable in my humble opinion is the goodwill most of us have extended to him. Despite his results and his disrespectful behaviour over bags of sweeties etc the majority started this season desparately wanting him to succeed.

The reality is he's lost that completely and the evidence in terms of results and performances are such that his appointment and summer fight to retain have been a boardroom error of colossal proportions.

The board now need to act before its too late.

[j'adore hibs]

can anyone provide me with cc's record?

[Northernhibee]

can anyone provide me with cc's record? Sure, it's Beck - Loser

[lucky]

There is total apathy towards Hibs. Crowds below 9000 and getting lower. RP and the board have taken us for mugs to often. The latest gimic of the 3rd strip and wearing that awful colour shows the club see fans as a cash cow to milk. CC's record is woeful. The style of football makes your eyes bleed. The players don't try and appear to be more interested in George Street than Easter Road.

[Ray_]

And that is the baffling part BH, how the Hibs fans haven't turned on CC is unbelievable compared to the treatment that was handed out to Yogi and Mixu for there bad spells at the club, have the Hibs fans gave up on the club that they cant even be bothered shouting for CC removal from the club, Petrie has and still is backing CC and the fans know that Petrie pulls the strings at ER, its his call and the Hibs fans know this and with RP not going anywhere soon it looks like wee may be stuck with CC while RP is at the club.

The pressure needs to be put on RP if wee want a new man in charge of the team and that should start with the game against St Mirren next week, some sort of protest to show the Board and manager that wee wont tolerate the rubbish that is being served up to us week after week, i know a lot of fans are voting with there feet and not coming along to watch Hibs anymore, i will always go and watch the team but it doesn't mean i am happy with the way things are going at Hibs and the only way to put that over to the club when at the games is to be loud enough to let the people who are running our club that wee are not happy and haven't been for a long time now.

CC needs to go that is quite obvious now, but i also think time is up for Rod Petrie as well, his backing of CC over the summer was an embarassment to the club and fans, and dont get me started on his joke of a statement to the fans backing CC regarding winning five games in a row but forgot to mention the other games where wee were tom kite.

One for CC, :taxi and another for RP, :taxi, there time is up at Hibernian FC.

I think it is far more serious than just giving stick, people have just had enough & they can't be bothered any more. It is not just this manager, Mowbray didn't get backed when asking for a couple of quality signings to take us to another level, then we had the Collins fiasco & everything has been on rapid decline since then, which translates to four years of utter garbage passed as entertainment.

[Godsahibby]

What frustrates me is the boards reason for keeping him, they were very public earlier in the year following our run of games that effictively took us out of the relegation battle, since then nothing has changed, we are still playing the same way, with the players lacking any sort of drive or motivation, we're one point of the bottom and we're lucky not to be at the foot of the table.

How can we keep going on like this, Ive always been one to support a manage and give someone time but a year on there has been very little signs of improvement, in my opinion we have brought in some better players but the standard of football on show keeps getting worse, I left at half time yesterday because I was bored, I had no interest in watching that any longer. I've got a season ticket that I'm pretty close to cancelling and no doubt many others out there are thinking about doing the same.

The board were very public supporting the manager, hand picking a number of games to say thats why he should be in charge but since then we have gone backwards, we did not improve on those results and this season we are, as a club, in a worse state of affairs with the product and performance on the park driving fans away in numbers.

I watched two SPL games yesteday both the Celtic v Killie and the Hibs v Motherwell (well the first half) and what got me were how could two clubs like Motherwell and Kille, both smaller clubs than we are, both with lower income levels, lower transfer and wage budgets be able to get it right on the park. Both teams were great to watch playing thr way that every Hibs fan out there wants us to play. I'm sure the Hibs board made some statement a few seasons ago about getting a team on the park that played the right way, why then did they appoint Calderwood as manager? Surely they new exactly the style of football he played, he even said it himself when he got the job, I can't remembe the exact quote but something along the lines of, we will be hard to beat it will not be pretty but we will win more games than we lose (happy to be corrected if this is wrong!). It is this style of football with the performances on the park that is losing the fans. I remember an interview with Pat Nevin when he was asked why he chose to supprt Hibs, he said he did it because he liked the club and fans way of thinking, there were many Hibs fans who walked out of Easter Road who were not disappointed if we hadn't won a game if we had played the right way.

We're never going to be a big team in this day in age, we won't win the league all the fans expect from our club on a Saturday is to to walk away after 90 mins and not feel like it's been a waste of an afternoon. Just now thats what it is!

[blackpoolhibs]

I never gave an opinion as to whether or not he should be bumped. I don't know how many threads you've started on the same subject though. That's what I find tiresome.

However, since you ask, I am still willing to give CC until the end of the year. If we are still where we are now, then I would agree it would be time for him to go.

I have seen some good signs over the past month or so of an improvement, and I think the first half yesterday was just one of those "bad days at the office". I don't think the club can afford to pay big compo getting shot of him now, but the next few months may determine they will have to bite the bullet and do just that.

You dont have to read the bloody things, put me on ignore its very easy.:confused: As for starting threads, this one was to argue both ways if you cared to read the title, and you have now said why you would keep him. Thats how its done, it was good, you gave your point, as others have done supporting him, and i have given mine. :rolleyes:

[LeithBoozy]

The thing that beats me is how CC, who has a wealth of experience, 36 Scotland caps can watch that defence week-in week-out and do nothing about it. He has won player of the year awards for his performances in defence with Swindon town, so good in fact it won him big moves to Tottenham, Aston villa, Nottingham Forrest and Notts county. So if he cannot set-up a tight defence who can?, when you look at the infrastucture that has been put in place it is excellent, so it is such a pity that the eye has been taken off the playing side of things. Who would have believed we were a good enough team to play in Europe a few years ago, Im finding it harder each week to believe Calderwood is the man to get us firing on all cylinders again, I pray that im wrong. :rolleyes:

[smurf]

Just because you can/could do it yourself doesn't necessarily mean you can coach others to do likewise.

[Captain Trips]

BH I think this goes beyond CC now for me, firstly I do not rate CC very much at all but the discussion about how much time he needs never goes to how much time should the board get.

1 4th place in 5 seasons since the cup win is plenty of time to have the club consistant not go into on freefall something the club has managed to achieve, IMO the boards time the whole regime FH,SL or RP should be getting punted, from a 10th place we are at this moment not looking like progressing much, the strategy of this manager and last one of lots of players on short deals that seems to be backed by board is just IMO showing no clear plan for future other than having to rotate the squad on a large scale every season.

The club IMO as far as football is run is a bit of a joke one that isnt very funny, they had a chance to springboard from that CIS win and apart from 1 season it has been a failure.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

There is total apathy towards Hibs. Crowds below 9000 and getting lower. RP and the board have taken us for mugs to often. The latest gimic of the 3rd strip and wearing that awful colour shows the club see fans as a cash cow to milk. CC's record is woeful. The style of football makes your eyes bleed. The players don't try and appear to be more interested in George Street than Easter Road. Couldnae agree more. Apathy is the biggest factor, for want of a better word most folk are "scunnered" with whats going on at ER, its surprisingly easy to get out of the habit of going every week and I think it could be very hard to get a lot of folk back onboard.

[blackpoolhibs]

Couldnae agree more. Apathy is the biggest factor, for want of a better word most folk are "scunnered" with whats going on at ER, its surprisingly easy to get out of the habit of going every and I think it could be very hard to get a lot of folk back onboard.

As simple as that may sound, i think you are bang on the money. I know lots of folk who just cant be bothered anymore, they wont be back any time soon either.

[basehibby]

As i see it, the argument for keeping him has always been he needs time. Thats all well and good, but imo we need to be thrown a crumb now and then to keep backing the man, we need to see a little light at the end of the tunnel.

Does anyone see any light, even a small flicker?

Arguments against are easy, results, performances, non commitment, dull uninspiring they have all played a part in folk deserting the club.

How long can this go on before the club act?

If I were to speak up for Calderwood then it would be to express doubt as to whether he has been given sufficient funds/flexibility to effect the rebuilding job he set out to do.
He has been diplomatic in his comments about this - but I certainly suspect that the purse strings were snapped shut at some point given the fact we lost out to St Johnstome for the services of Celin Sheridan in the summer - and the fact that we still lack creativity in the midfield when anyone can see the team is crying out for that kind of player.
Against this you have to balance the fact that the team that beat us fairly comfortably on saturday get by on around HALF of the turnover Hibs get - presumably meaning they have around half of the player budget. That alone would suggest that there are ways and means of putting a good team together on a tight budget and that Calderwood has failed to achieve this.

[nortonhibby]

Cc is in my opinion far worse than Duff Jimmy.

He inherited Riordan, Zemmama, Miller, Stack, Murray, Bamba, makings of a foundation to build upon.

We also got in Sodje, Gaz, Sproule, Griffiths, Osbourne, Pallson, Agogo...this is in no way a team that should be staring at relegation.

Get him right to ****.

The stats show after 46 games which was when James Duffy was sacked like fore like comps between them is a slight better points total to CC.
BUT NOTHING BETWEEN THEM REALLY AS TO WHO IS THE MOST USELESS.

The difference is CC Has the 100 percent suport and backing of RP.

[blackpoolhibs]

If I were to speak up for Calderwood then it would be to express doubt as to whether he has been given sufficient funds/flexibility to effect the rebuilding job he set out to do.
He has been diplomatic in his comments about this - but I certainly suspect that the purse strings were snapped shut at some point given the fact we lost out to St Johnstome for the services of Celin Sheridan in the summer - and the fact that we still lack creativity in the midfield when anyone can see the team is crying out for that kind of player.
Against this you have to balance the fact that the team that beat us fairly comfortably on saturday get by on around HALF of the turnover Hibs get - presumably meaning they have around half of the player budget. That alone would suggest that there are ways and means of putting a good team together on a tight budget and that Calderwood has failed to achieve this.

Does your 2nd point not make your 1st one invalid when you compare both sides on Saturday, as you just did?

[nortonhibby]

I think it is far more serious than just giving stick, people have just had enough & they can't be bothered any more. It is not just this manager, Mowbray didn't get backed when asking for a couple of quality signings to take us to another level, then we had the Collins fiasco & everything has been on rapid decline since then, which translates to four years of utter garbage passed as entertainment.

With RP At the helm during this time frame all arrows point to RP This mess is deeper than binning CC The problems are at a higher level than the manager although CC IMO Is worse than Yogi, a lot worse than Mixu, and a hell of a lot worse than JC.

[basehibby]

Does your 2nd point not make your 1st one invalid when you compare both sides on Saturday, as you just did?

No it doesn't - it expresses an underlying concern about the way things are run which goes beyond Calderwood and perhaps goes some way to explaining the number of managerial failures passing through Easter Road.

[greenlex]

I have slept on this and reconsidered. Just posted the following on the PM Forum


I have had a good think about this and reckon the board should give him the next 5 League games. 8 points minimum or its goodbye. A good battling performance in the cup should also be a minimum requirement.
Anything less tan 8 points and we will be in serious truoble. We cant waittill the window. He should be told ths is the case too.

8 points from 15 minimum. Over to you Colin.

[Northernhibee]

The stats show after 46 games which was when James Duffy was sacked like fore like comps between them is a slight better points total to CC.BUT NOTHING BETWEEN THEM REALLY AS TO WHO IS THE MOST USELESS.The difference is CC Has the 100 percent suport and backing of RP.Lies, damn lies and statisticsThink of all the games where CC lucked out - Aberdeen last season when they hit the bar three times, the 3-3 comeback that just 'happened', tons of others with a far better team.Imo there's no doubt in my mind that CC is the worst ever Hibs manager.And yet the board love him and apparently turned down 300k for him.

[Ray_]

With RP At the helm during this time frame all arrows point to RP This mess is deeper than binning CC The problems are at a higher level than the manager although CC IMO Is worse than Yogi, a lot worse than Mixu, and a hell of a lot worse than JC.

Something I have been saying for years!

[Leith Green]

With RP At the helm during this time frame all arrows point to RP This mess is deeper than binning CC The problems are at a higher level than the manager although CC IMO Is worse than Yogi, a lot worse than Mixu, and a hell of a lot worse than JC.


Petrie and his board need emptying too. The apathy amongst our support is wierd just now, there is a horrible atmosphere at our club and in my opinion it comes from the top. Its got that bad that people cant actually be ersed doing anything to set about change. Its becoming the norm.

We have been going backwards for 4 seasons now!

[iwasthere1972]

There are no arguments in favour of Calderwood. Punt him now before we are relegated.


:agree:

[Bishop Hibee]

The only argument anyone can have for keeping CC is the "give him time" one. I'd argue he's brought in his own players now and yet doesn't seem to know their best positions from week to week. Scott was lost out wide and while moving Palson to RB during the St Johnstone game to combat their ariel threat worked, Towell should have been there from the start yesterday. We're chock full of central midfielders who are all too similar. How Griffiths doesn't get a run up front alongside O'Connor is beyond me.

Motherwell, Killie etc are the teams we should be looking at and targeting their main players for our own squad rather than the likes of Agogo who plays as if he sees Hibs as a last boost to his pension fund.

We were second best all over the pitch in the first half yesterday and only a bit better in the second. It felt like the worst of the 1980's all over again. Defeats in our next two games against St Mirren in the league and Celtc in the cup and I'll be baying for him to be sacked and would be amazed if he isn't.

[nortonhibby]

The only argument anyone can have for keeping CC is the "give him time" one. I'd argue he's brought in his own players now and yet doesn't seem to know their best positions from week to week. Scott was lost out wide and while moving Palson to RB during the St Johnstone game to combat their ariel threat worked, Towell should have been there from the start yesterday. We're chock full of central midfielders who are all too similar. How Griffiths doesn't get a run up front alongside O'Connor is beyond me.

Motherwell, Killie etc are the teams we should be looking at and targeting their main players for our own squad rather than the likes of Agogo who plays as if he sees Hibs as a last boost to his pension fund.

We were second best all over the pitch in the first half yesterday and only a bit better in the second. It felt like the worst of the 1980's all over again. Defeats in our next two games against St Mirren in the league and Celtc in the cup and I'll be baying for him to be sacked and would be amazed if he isn't.

We will loose our next 2 games the main problem we have is RP It does not matter what we do RP Is the man i suspect CC Will get till January then alowed to bring in more central midfield players in the same mould as the lot we have.

CC Will go down in history as our worst ever manager and the sad thing is he did it with the full backing off the board.

[Speedway]

Sauzee is actually our worst ever manager.

When CC came in, I was a bit non-plussed. Once I researched his record and reputation, I was impressed that Rod had got him. When I saw what he was trying to do, I was fully in support. When I looked at the quality of his signings on paper, there was no argument from me.

As I said at the start of the season, I was going to hang fire on judgement until the first round of fixtures was over. Well it's over and we have 9 points from 11 games.

He might still turn it around, he also might take us down. I have now turned. For whatever reason, it isn't working. On paper he was still a very good appointment but it's time for him to go now.

That's sad to say but I don't see why players are still scared, there's hardly a crowd left to boo anyone.

[allezsauzee]

The only positive thing I could say is that he is better than Jim Duffy.....but thats setting the bar so low that even a 3ft tall limbo dancer would struggle to get under it

[down the slope]

Check out the goal against us yesterday, amateur stuff after a year in charge , not good enough for us but good enough for Rod !. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/15329351.stm

[nortonhibby]

The only positive thing I could say is that he is better than Jim Duffy.....but thats setting the bar so low that even a 3ft tall limbo dancer would struggle to get under it

one with a wooden leg, Taxi for CC Please.:taxi

[nortonhibby]

Check out the goal against us yesterday, amateur stuff after a year in charge , not good enough for us but good enough for Rod !. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/15329351.stm

look at all the empty seats RP Are you seeing what you have done to our club ?

[IWasThere2016]

Check out the goal against us yesterday, amateur stuff after a year in charge , not good enough for us but good enough for Rod !. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/15329351.stm

Foul throw.

Looked like not a lot of pace on the cross - should Stack not be out for it?

Did O'Hanlon get a touch?

[easty]

Check out the goal against us yesterday, amateur stuff after a year in charge , not good enough for us but good enough for Rod !. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/15329351.stm

1:40 into the highlights Agogo going forward, we're a goal down.......it's shocking how poor the effort from our midfield to get involved! In fact you can't call it effort as 3 of them are behind him standing still.

[Alfred E Newman]

The arguement for him to stay is that if we fire A.N.Other we are missing the root of the problem and hence we will be in this place again. Look at Derek Adams. Talented manager without a doubt. Has taken a Ross County team from its' knees and put them top of the pile. He smelled something rank at ER and wanted out. Not the smell you get from dodgy bin but when you need to get builders in to dig deep and you know it will cost. What makes this more compelling for me is the body language of those players yesterday. Not interested. Looked completely hacked off, trotting around in that cash cow of a new strip with as much commitment to the cause as those boys you see holding up the golf sale signs on a busy high street.

The Derek Adams point is a good one. He achieved absolutely nothing during his brief stay here yet returns to Ross County and takes them from the foot of Div 1 to the top in a few months. Mixu leaves here and turns an ordinary Kilmarnock into the most attractive side in the league. This suggests that it is not all down to the manager as many on here already suspect. There is something rotten at the club and the sooner it is sorted out the better or the club are heading for disaster. Calderwood is a busted flush but replacing him with better might not be easy.

[KeithTheHibby]

Good thread and lot's of constructive comments.

CC was brought in a year ago to improve a team languishing in the bottom six.

A year later we are still languishing in the bottom six with no real sign of improvement and have arguably a worse team than we did a year ago.

Our form over the last year would have us close to being relegated. Our home form is abysmal and crowds are down around 25% in the last year.

Not all of this is CC's fault but the buck stops with him as it is a result's business.

I don't see any way back for him.

[degenerated]

With RP At the helm during this time frame all arrows point to RP This mess is deeper than binning CC The problems are at a higher level than the manager although CC IMO Is worse than Yogi, a lot worse than Mixu, and a hell of a lot worse than JC.

you appear to have real bee in yer bunnet about Petrie, that must be every single post since you've joined this site. has he pumped yer missus or something?

[sadtom]

[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;2948246]This is a point put across by some that i just dont get? Of course there have been the odd game where we have won, inverness away comes to mind. Where we are all happy we won, and its a sign of progression.

Yet when Hughes team won, and had his team sitting third, it was all luck?

Progression is imo a team that wins, plays good attractive football and crowds grow as people are enjoying what they see.

Calderwoods team have the opposite effect, but is not getting half the stick Hughes did.

Hughes deserved to go, his results from February were terrible and Petrie acted swiftly. Calderwoods results are worse, the footballs worse, the team are worse and crowds are turning their backs on the club. Why the double standards, why has he not been punted?[/QUOTE


Definitely. I cant for the life of me understand some of the folk on here, pi$$ed me right off so it has. Loads seem delighted that a guy who was passionate about his job and the club, got sacked.
He tried to do it the right but ultimately failed but ends up getting what appears to be much more abuse and disrespect than some nobody who cares not a jot for the club and who has precided over an appalling record of results/performances.
In fact, said nobody still has a reducing but considerable number prepared to 'give him time.'
I just dont get it.

[BEEJ]

Definitely. I cant for the life of me understand some of the folk on here, pi$$ed me right off so it has. Loads seem delighted that a guy who was passionate about his job and the club, got sacked.

He tried to do it the right but ultimately failed but ends up getting what appears to be much more abuse and disrespect than some nobody who cares not a jot for the club and who has precided over an appalling record of results/performances.

In fact, said nobody still has a reducing but considerable number prepared to 'give him time.'
I just dont get it.
The most recent 'CC stay or go' poll on this board currently has a 90% / 10% majority in favour of his imminent departure from ER.

I don't recall Yogi getting a more emphatic vote of no-confidence than that during his final days in post. Hughes always had his cohort of followers prepared to give him endless amounts of time in the job.

And they're still around.

[matty_f]

The most recent 'CC stay or go' poll on this board currently has a 90% / 10% majority in favour of his imminent departure from ER.

I don't recall Yogi getting a more emphatic vote of no-confidence than that during his final days in post. Hughes always had his cohort of followers prepared to give him endless amounts of time in the job.

And they're still around.

At least they still don't go on and on (and on) about it though.:greengrin

[BEEJ]

At least they still don't go on and on (and on) about it though.:greengrin
And on ....

:greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

Agree that Calderwood should not be treated differently from Hughes. At least JH got us into Europe before it went T-its up, Calderwood has done nothing except emulate the disastrous run of the second half of Hughes's regime.

Basically, I think the only reason CC is still there is because the board are gun-shy after having made so many errors in appointing managers since Mowbray.

[lucky]

2 wins in 11 league games this season is a poor record by its self but add in his over all record it gets worse. Hibs had 8500 there on Saturday, a few years ago we would have had nearer 13000 . Hibs board must be able to see fans are voting with their feet. FFS MK Dons had more against Bournemouth in league 1. How low do we sink before they take action.

[J-C]

Hughes did get us Europe although through sheer luck and a run so bad we almost blew it, ultimately when it all went wrong he didn't have a scooby what to do and things went from bad to worse.

CC didn't even get a response from the players when he took over, something that usually happens and while other clubs have bought half decent players from England and elsewhere, we've signed the usual duds, couldn't give a toss player from there, he seems to have no idea how to motivate a team and has the tactical nous of a blind mole.

The board must act quickly now before it's all too late, he's shown he would rather be elsewhere near his family and we should grant him his wish, if not relegation is a real possibility.

[Speedway]

The thing I don't agree with is that when we lose, it's CC's lack of ability and when we win or draw, it's BB's fight and discipline and tactical suggestions.

So where was BB's influence yesterday? Or has the temporary positive effect of his arrival now worn off and he's as useless as everyone else?

[blackpoolhibs]

Hughes did get us Europe although through sheer luck and a run so bad we almost blew it, ultimately when it all went wrong he didn't have a scooby what to do and things went from bad to worse.

CC didn't even get a response from the players when he took over, something that usually happens and while other clubs have bought half decent players from England and elsewhere, we've signed the usual duds, couldn't give a toss player from there, he seems to have no idea how to motivate a team and has the tactical nous of a blind mole.

The board must act quickly now before it's all too late, he's shown he would rather be elsewhere near his family and we should grant him his wish, if not relegation is a real possibility.

Can you talk me through that bit please?

[Andy74]

Agree that Calderwood should not be treated differently from Hughes. At least JH got us into Europe before it went T-its up, Calderwood has done nothing except emulate the disastrous run of the second half of Hughes's regime.

Basically, I think the only reason CC is still there is because the board are gun-shy after having made so many errors in appointing managers since Mowbray.

He has more than emulated that bad run.

Taking the home games Hughes lost in that run we only lost to Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Dundee Utd was it?

At the start of last season we drew games we should have won against Inverness and Hamilton.

A large part of the bad run we had was down to bad pitches, key injuries, the East Stand going - a few things.

Calderwood has taken that to a new level - losing games regularly against bottom six teams and it's not been unlucky, it's been due to very poor performances.

I still struggle with the point of view that Hughes was a proven idiot whereas Calderwood is competenet but just needs time or even more players. The distinction is not played out at all in esults and at least with Hughes we had the decency of a great run before things started to go badly.

Even those who abcked Hughes more than most accepted it was time for him to go when he did, but is that actually right?

I argued at the time that you need to give time when results have been good previously and where there is a long term plan to allow certain players to leave when their contract was up.

Do we really and honestly think that if you had allowed Hughes another year, and 14 more players whilst allowing him to release the guys he didn't want that we would still be showing the exact same poor form as we have now?

It's possible of course but I don't think it should be the accepted fact that it is now.

CC has been given an unprecedented apportunity to change the squad around. I think it's been overdone and for absolutley no end pay off.

This time last year we probably needed another couple of different types of players. Instead its been near total change for nothing.

I'm amazed at the patience showen here and the fact that there are still threads laughing at Hughes whilst we have this guy here and excuses still being made for him. Doesn't say much for CC being a lot worse than a joke figure.

[Andy74]

Can you talk me through that bit please?

Told often enough it's now true. Compared to Barcelona we weren't smashing teams to pieces but we weren't lucky.

Best defensive record for decades up to Christmas, Stokes up with the top scoreres in the SPL, Riordan getting 15 or so from left midfield. Miller and Zemmama in good form and McBride doing a great job and getting spoken about as player of the year.

You could say the unlucky bit was Bamba heading away, Stack, McBride and Zemmama getting injured and the pitches being a disgrace, particualry ours.

We weren't happy with our lot though, so maybe the fans can take a share of the blame here? It certainly reflected on the support given to new players at the start of the next year which was non existent.

Sometimes when you get what you want you don't like what you get.

[3pm]

Calderwood is a dud.

Hughes was awful - some of the stuff written about him is laughable. He should have been emptied because we were going nowhere fast but Calderwood has somehow managed to 'emulate' him. He should already be gone this morning.

Shambles.

[BEEJ]

I still struggle with the point of view that Hughes was a proven idiot whereas Calderwood is competenet but just needs time or even more players. The distinction is not played out at all in esults and at least with Hughes we had the decency of a great run before things started to go badly.

Even those who abcked Hughes more than most accepted it was time for him to go when he did, but is that actually right?

I argued at the time that you need to give time when results have been good previously and where there is a long term plan to allow certain players to leave when their contract was up.

Do we really and honestly think that if you had allowed Hughes another year, and 14 more players whilst allowing him to release the guys he didn't want that we would still be showing the exact same poor form as we have now?

It's possible of course but I don't think it should be the accepted fact that it is now.


Told often enough it's now true. Compared to Barcelona we weren't smashing teams to pieces but we weren't lucky.

We weren't happy with our lot though, so maybe the fans can take a share of the blame here? It certainly reflected on the support given to new players at the start of the next year which was non existent.

Sometimes when you get what you want you don't like what you get.
I understood that the main objective of the last managerial appointment at ER was (much like previous failed recruitment exercises) to arrest the slump in form and performances that the club had endured for several months up until that point and which showed no sign of changing. The fact that the recruitment of CC has proved to be another appalling failure does not logically imply that we should just have stuck with the previous appalling failure.

I think the Yogi support team should just go all out now and start a campaign to bring him back to ER as Manager. After all, he's still unattached despite apparently having been 'in the frame' for a number of football management posts in the last 12 months. So he shouldn't be too expensive and with extensive First Division experience, he'll probably fit right in with the club for season 2012/13.

Most of the Hibs support are past caring anyway. But at least Yogi's return would cheer a couple of dozen of his most ardent followers as they huddle together for warmth in a deserted East Stand.

[IWasThere2016]

At least they still don't go on and on (and on) about it though.:greengrin


And on ....

:greengrin


I understood that the main objective of the last managerial appointment at ER was (much like previous failed recruitment exercises) to arrest the slump in form and performances that the club had endured for several months up until that point and which showed no sign of changing. The fact that the recruitment of CC has proved to be another appalling failure does not logically imply that we should just have stuck with the previous appalling failure.

I think the Yogi support team should just go all out now and start a campaign to bring him back to ER as Manager. After all, he's still unattached despite apparently having been 'in the frame' for a number of football management posts in the last 12 months. So he shouldn't be too expensive and with extensive First Division experience, he'll probably fit right in with the club for season 2012/13.

Most of the Hibs support are past caring anyway. But at least Yogi's return would cheer a couple of dozen of his most ardent followers as they huddle together for warmth in a deserted East Stand.

:top marks

[tamig]

I argued at the time that you need to give time when results have been good previously and where there is a long term plan to allow certain players to leave when their contract was up.

Do we really and honestly think that if you had allowed Hughes another year, and 14 more players whilst allowing him to release the guys he didn't want that we would still be showing the exact same poor form as we have now?



Were a lot of these players where the contracts were expiring not Hughes signings? Was this all part of the grand Yogi masterplan?

[J-C]

Can you talk me through that bit please?

Yep no probs Gary, we won more games than our form at that time showed, Yogi admitted the same, we were clear 3rd in January and then went on a horrific run of games right up to the end of the season, with Motherwell catching us very quickly and Dundee U overtaking us into 3rd. If it wasn't for the fact that Dundee U had a cup final to look forward to and played almost their reserve team against us, we would never have got 4th and Europe would never have happened, all sheer luck and nothing to do with Yogi, his tactics or the quality of players, apart from Stokes and Riordan scoring the necessary goals to get us there.

[silverhibee]

The thing I don't agree with is that when we lose, it's CC's lack of ability and when we win or draw, it's BB's fight and discipline and tactical suggestions.

So where was BB's influence yesterday? Or has the temporary positive effect of his arrival now worn off and he's as useless as everyone else?


When CC goes it should be followed by BB Gareth Evans and the rest of the backroom staff, a total clearout, and start from scratch again.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yep no probs Gary, we won more games than our form at that time showed, Yogi admitted the same, we were clear 3rd in January and then went on a horrific run of games right up to the end of the season, with Motherwell catching us very quickly and Dundee U overtaking us into 3rd. If it wasn't for the fact that Dundee U had a cup final to look forward to and played almost their reserve team against us, we would never have got 4th and Europe would never have happened, all sheer luck and nothing to do with Yogi, his tactics or the quality of players, apart from Stokes and Riordan scoring the necessary goals to get us there.

You say we won more games than our form showed at the time, i asked this question before, and most folk specifically came up with a 3-0 win at home to St Johnstone, and a win at Aberdeen. I disagree any team can win 3-0 and be lucky, especially as we also missed quite a few chance too in that game. I will give you Aberdeen.

Now i'm only guessing, but i'd imagine most teams win some games they dont really deserve to win, or is it only Hibs?

We did go on a bad run, not from january, but the 14th of February. Still winning at Parkhead and a few home games too. We also drew 6-6 with Motherwell, who if they'd beaten us may have pipped us to 4th, but they didn't. Stokes and Riordan happened to play for us at that time, whats lucky about that? Should we not have played them to level things out a bit?

Luck, not a chance. The team that wins the league, win it on merit, and all the way down to the team thats relegated is the same.

If football was all about luck, i will have some now please.

[silverhibee]

He has more than emulated that bad run.

Taking the home games Hughes lost in that run we only lost to Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Dundee Utd was it?

At the start of last season we drew games we should have won against Inverness and Hamilton.

A large part of the bad run we had was down to bad pitches, key injuries, the East Stand going - a few things.

Calderwood has taken that to a new level - losing games regularly against bottom six teams and it's not been unlucky, it's been due to very poor performances.

I still struggle with the point of view that Hughes was a proven idiot whereas Calderwood is competenet but just needs time or even more players. The distinction is not played out at all in esults and at least with Hughes we had the decency of a great run before things started to go badly.

Even those who abcked Hughes more than most accepted it was time for him to go when he did, but is that actually right?

I argued at the time that you need to give time when results have been good previously and where there is a long term plan to allow certain players to leave when their contract was up.

Do we really and honestly think that if you had allowed Hughes another year, and 14 more players whilst allowing him to release the guys he didn't want that we would still be showing the exact same poor form as we have now?

It's possible of course but I don't think it should be the accepted fact that it is now.

CC has been given an unprecedented apportunity to change the squad around. I think it's been overdone and for absolutley no end pay off.

This time last year we probably needed another couple of different types of players. Instead its been near total change for nothing.

I'm amazed at the patience showen here and the fact that there are still threads laughing at Hughes whilst we have this guy here and excuses still being made for him. Doesn't say much for CC being a lot worse than a joke figure.


You will end up getting fined by the club for telling the truth about our pitch. :greengrin

Regarding CC and Yogi, the two of them are as bad as each other for there time at Hibs, this bickering about the two of them has to stop from certain folk, Yogi had his chance and blew it, CC has had his chance and blew it too, lets get over it and put it to bed, it really is becoming tiresome. :aok:

[Northernhibee]

When CC goes it should be followed by BB Gareth Evans and the rest of the backroom staff, a total clearout, and start from scratch again. Agreed, but keep BB.

[blackpoolhibs]

You will end up getting fined by the club for telling the truth about our pitch. :greengrin

Regarding CC and Yogi, the two of them are as bad as each other for there time at Hibs, this bickering about the two of them has to stop from certain folk, Yogi had his chance and blew it, CC has had his chance and blew it too, lets get over it and put it to bed, it really is becoming tiresome. :aok:

Its easier said than done, especially when you see every day right here on this message board the double standards some are clearly showing when talking about Calderwood. When making a judgement on the present manager, you do have to compare him to others, and the last one especially.

And when this one is escaping as lightly as he is, compared to someone who at least gave us some success, its baffling, yet understandable.

[Northernhibee]

I'd actually like to see BB take on a director of football type role, I like the idea of having an experienced hand to try and get a winning mentality through the whole team and avoid another trumpet like CC.

[silverhibee]

Its easier said than done, especially when you see every day right here on this message board the double standards some are clearly showing when talking about Calderwood. When making a judgement on the present manager, you do have to compare him to others, and the last one especially.

And when this one is escaping as lightly as he is, compared to someone who at least gave us some success, its baffling, yet understandable.

See my post above, cant believe the easy ride CC is getting from the fans just now.

[GreenPJ]

Its easier said than done, especially when you see every day right here on this message board the double standards some are clearly showing when talking about Calderwood. When making a judgement on the present manager, you do have to compare him to others, and the last one especially.

And when this one is escaping as lightly as he is, compared to someone who at least gave us some success, its baffling, yet understandable.

Its a sad indictment when seeing 4th place and one round in Europe is a success.

[blackpoolhibs]

Its a sad indictment when seeing 4th place and one round in Europe is a success.

I agree, i was brought up thinking we could actually win the league. Yet now the way things are, a european place is success.

[GreenPJ]

I agree, i was brought up thinking we could actually win the league. Yet now the way things are, a european place is success.

If not the league at least a cup. This illustrates why Scottish football is broken and Hibs are suffering as well as contributing to it. The statement Dunfermline had on their website basically confirmed that the financial pressures put on clubs in winning promotion to the SPL is not worth it. They were better off working to a controlled budget, winning games and bringing in fans in the first division.

We could go through another 4 managers in another 5 years and still the measure of success would be a european spot, that has to change. Am not saying CC is the man or not, just think that the current structure does not allow anyone to come in and make a sustained difference.

I can only hope that the very real possibility of Rangers disappearing might prompt some real action from the authorities, governments, clubs and to a lesser extent fans.

[Captain Trips]

Ok lets say JH was lucky, CC is so poor he cant even manage lucky.

[Alfred E Newman]

When CC goes it should be followed by BB Gareth Evans and the rest of the backroom staff, a total clearout, and start from scratch again.

Totally agree. There will shortly be more bodies in the home dug out than sitting behind them in the stand. Get rid of the lot.

[BEEJ]

See my post above, cant believe the easy ride CC is getting from the fans just now.
You've answered your own question on this previously, SH. There is no sense of expectation at all now amongst the support apart from SPL survival; therefore there is nothing to get heated about.

There has been a serious outbreak of apathy amongst the Hibs support. For starters a few thousand fewer attend matches this season compared to last year and those that do go are reluctant to shout for change because they have no confidence in the Board making a decent managerial appointment.

There is too the growing realisation with some that there must also be matters to be dealt with that are more deep-rooted than simply personnel changes.

Polls on here make the supporters opinion very clear as regards CC. What are you wanting to happen at the matches? Mass calls for CC's head? :dunno:

[BEEJ]

Its easier said than done, especially when you see every day right here on this message board the double standards some are clearly showing when talking about Calderwood.
Just how many posters are we talking about here?

I could count on one hand the number that I've seen on Hibs.net in the last week who are prepared to give CC more time.

[blackpoolhibs]

Just how many posters are we talking about here?

I could count on one hand the number that I've seen on Hibs.net in the last week who are prepared to give CC more time.

Oh i'm sure you can spot them, its quite easy. I can actually see them squirming on their computer chair. :wink:

[silverhibee]

You've answered your own question on this previously, SH. There is no sense of expectation at all now amongst the support apart from SPL survival; therefore there is nothing to get heated about.

There has been a serious outbreak of apathy amongst the Hibs support. For starters a few thousand fewer attend matches this season compared to last year and those that do go are reluctant to shout for change because they have no confidence in the Board making a decent managerial appointment.

There is too the growing realisation with some that there must also be matters to be dealt with that are more deep-rooted than simply personnel changes.

Polls on here make the supporters opinion very clear as regards CC. What are you wanting to happen at the matches? Mass calls for CC's head? :dunno:

Yes. That would do for starters.

[J-C]

Ok lets say JH was lucky, CC is so poor he cant even manage lucky.

Don't let BH say you think Hughes was lucky :greengrin

[J-C]

You say we won more games than our form showed at the time, i asked this question before, and most folk specifically came up with a 3-0 win at home to St Johnstone, and a win at Aberdeen. I disagree any team can win 3-0 and be lucky, especially as we also missed quite a few chance too in that game. I will give you Aberdeen.

Now i'm only guessing, but i'd imagine most teams win some games they dont really deserve to win, or is it only Hibs?

We did go on a bad run, not from january, but the 14th of February. Still winning at Parkhead and a few home games too. We also drew 6-6 with Motherwell, who if they'd beaten us may have pipped us to 4th, but they didn't. Stokes and Riordan happened to play for us at that time, whats lucky about that? Should we not have played them to level things out a bit?

Luck, not a chance. The team that wins the league, win it on merit, and all the way down to the team thats relegated is the same.

If football was all about luck, i will have some now please.


Hughes actually said at the time we were in a false place in the league and that the team was not as good as they thought they were and if memory serves me right we did scrape a few results by the od goal here and there and we were lucky to have Stokes and Deek scoring for fun at the time. We rode our luck, threw away 3rd place and nearly lost 4th, come the summer did Hughes strengthen, no! Stokes gone, Zouma gone and dross brought in to replace and we wonder why things went wrong for Yogi and now CC.

[nortonhibby]

I understood that the main objective of the last managerial appointment at ER was (much like previous failed recruitment exercises) to arrest the slump in form and performances that the club had endured for several months up until that point and which showed no sign of changing. The fact that the recruitment of CC has proved to be another appalling failure does not logically imply that we should just have stuck with the previous appalling failure.

I think the Yogi support team should just go all out now and start a campaign to bring him back to ER as Manager. After all, he's still unattached despite apparently having been 'in the frame' for a number of football management posts in the last 12 months. So he shouldn't be too expensive and with extensive First Division experience, he'll probably fit right in with the club for season 2012/13.

Most of the Hibs support are past caring anyway. But at least Yogi's return would cheer a couple of dozen of his most ardent followers as they huddle together for warmth in a deserted East Stand.

If Yogi had had the same patience as what CC Is being given we would not be in this position Yogi had passion and he is a true Hibby.

There is no improvement 1 year tomorrow is when CC Came in we are worse now than then bringing back Yogi would at least galvanise the support not sure if RP Would be happy Though.:flag:

[blackpoolhibs]

Hughes actually said at the time we were in a false place in the league and that the team was not as good as they thought they were and if memory serves me right we did scrape a few results by the od goal here and there and we were lucky to have Stokes and Deek scoring for fun at the time. We rode our luck, threw away 3rd place and nearly lost 4th, come the summer did Hughes strengthen, no! Stokes gone, Zouma gone and dross brought in to replace and we wonder why things went wrong for Yogi and now CC.

I thought Hughes talked a load of sheight? I suppose if we were lucky Stokes and Riordan scored for fun, we could also say those who were scoring for Motherwell and Dundee Utd were lucky too, or does this only apply to Hibs?

Now this is another part i dont quite understand about your post. If we were lucky to be 3rd, how could we have thrown it away, surely we just slipped down into our rightfull place when the luck ran out?????????????

The rest about the dross coming in, i agree. this is why he was punted?????????

[BEEJ]

Oh i'm sure you can spot them, its quite easy. I can actually see them squirming on their computer chair. :wink:
I didn't ask for names. I asked how many.

As examples of 'double standards' go, it's hardly an epidemic, is it?
:greengrin

[steakbake]

If Yogi had had the same patience as what CC Is being given we would not be in this position Yogi had passion and he is a true Hibby.

There is no improvement 1 year tomorrow is when CC Came in we are worse now than then bringing back Yogi would at least galvanise the support not sure if RP Would be happy Though.:flag:

Are you high?

[blackpoolhibs]

I didn't ask for names. I asked how many.

As examples of 'double standards' go, it's hardly an epidemic, is it?
:greengrin

Its only an handfull, but a noisy handfull when they wanted Hughes out. Its actually quite funny seeing them squirm at the moment. Its funny watching them change the argument to other subjects/symptoms rather than say he's a clown. :wink:

[BEEJ]

If Yogi had had the same patience as what CC Is being given we would not be in this position Yogi had passion and he is a true Hibby.

There is no improvement 1 year tomorrow is when CC Came in we are worse now than then bringing back Yogi would at least galvanise the support not sure if RP Would be happy Though.:flag:
And there we have it.

The campaign trail for Yogi's re-election has now officially been launched. :aok: He'll have his own battle-bus by the end of the month.

Yeah, he'd galvanise the support alright. Perhaps not in the way you might think, though.

[blackpoolhibs]

And there we have it.

The campaign trail for Yogi's re-election has now officially been launched. :aok: He'll have his own battle-bus by the end of the month.

Yeah, he'd galvanise the support alright. Perhaps not in the way you might think, though.

I dont want Hughes back, as i have said he was given the time to address the slide from February. He failed. He also brought to the club a couple of players right up there with the worst in our history, and was rightly sacked.

Although if i knew what was coming after him, i'd much rather have kept him than have this one. I dont think even Hughes would have had us as bad as this clown.

[IWasThere2016]

I dont want Hughes back, as i have said he was given the time to address the slide from February. He failed. He also brought to the club a couple of players right up there with the worst in our history, and was rightly sacked.

Although if i knew what was coming after him, i'd much rather have kept him than have this one. I dont think even Hughes would have had us as bad as this clown.

Hughes might have if he'd inherited his own 'unworkable legacy' .. Whether its Yogi the clown, or CC the clown they all go in the end.

Lamenting the 'failed' is the sad bit :wink:

Thankfully nobody at ER will have Hughes back.

[Dashing Bob S]

I dont want Hughes back, as i have said he was given the time to address the slide from February. He failed. He also brought to the club a couple of players right up there with the worst in our history, and was rightly sacked.

Although if i knew what was coming after him, i'd much rather have kept him than have this one. I dont think even Hughes would have had us as bad as this clown.

He'd have a right good go though - but he'd fail, which says a lot about both men.

Hughes was going through a unacceptably poor run, but took flak as he drew attention to himself by talking loudmouthed pish. As misguided as he often was though, he actually did care about the club.

This joker keeps his head down, doesn't ruffle any feathers. A lot of the people riled by Hughes find this endearing in some ways. I disagree. Not only is this guy worse than Hughes (subtract the European qualification) he also quite evidently couldn't give a toss. I almost HOPE for his sake, not ours, that his heart and head really are somewhere else - if he really cared about this job and was this bad at it in the SPL at a reasonably resourced club like Hibs, then he would almost have to be considered mentally ******ed.

[blackpoolhibs]

Hughes might have if he'd inherited his own 'unworkable legacy' .. Whether its Yogi the clown, or CC the clown they all go in the end.

Lamenting the 'failed' is the sad bit :wink:

Thankfully nobody at ER will have Hughes back.

Who is lamenting the failed? I said i dont think even Hughes would have been as bad as the man you pinned all your hopes on.

[J-C]

I thought Hughes talked a load of sheight? I suppose if we were lucky Stokes and Riordan scored for fun, we could also say those who were scoring for Motherwell and Dundee Utd were lucky too, or does this only apply to Hibs?

Now this is another part i dont quite understand about your post. If we were lucky to be 3rd, how could we have thrown it away, surely we just slipped down into our rightfull place when the luck ran out?????????????

The rest about the dross coming in, i agree. this is why he was punted?????????


You obviously don't understand the lucky bit G, we were playing far above where we should have been and rode our luck in a few games where we scraped home with a win when in reality we didn't play all that well, Yogi said as much, then when the luck ran out, the true level of the team showed and we slid down to scrape 4th spot, when earlier we were splitting the OF like Motherwell are doing this year. God help us if we didn't have the scoring ability of Stokes and Deek that year eh!.........So yes we were lucky to be so high in the league when in reality we didn't really desreve to be there due to our average performances and when injuries and form slumps kicked in we dropped to or rightful place, Yogi was unable to change things and couldn't even after a summer of new players.

[nortonhibby]

And there we have it.

The campaign trail for Yogi's re-election has now officially been launched. :aok: He'll have his own battle-bus by the end of the month.

Yeah, he'd galvanise the support alright. Perhaps not in the way you might think, though.

Yogi is available and there would be no compo to pay, he has fire in his belly he has a point to prove can he be worse than CC ?

Granted this would be an unusual step a one off even to bring back a sacked manager but Yogi has passion for our club more than what CC Has.:flag:

[J-C]

The big problem in all these scenarios is Rob Petrie, a man who happily shafts people to get his own way and is more concerned about balance books rather than winning footbal matches. Until this man is ousted Hibs will continually struggle to rise to our rightful place among the league leader.

[nortonhibby]

The big problem in all these scenarios is Rob Petrie, a man who happily shafts people to get his own way and is more concerned about balance books rather than winning footbal matches. Until this man is ousted Hibs will continually struggle to rise to our rightful place among the league leader.

Agreed we are papering over the cracks till RP Is outed and gone our major problem is RP Would rather see a sea of empty seats than go the man is un touchable he needs money to survive cut off the suply and he will go though its just how do we deprive him of the money he needs to survive thats the key.:flag:

[blackpoolhibs]

You obviously don't understand the lucky bit G, we were playing far above where we should have been and rode our luck in a few games where we scraped home with a win when in reality we didn't play all that well, Yogi said as much, then when the luck ran out, the true level of the team showed and we slid down to scrape 4th spot, when earlier we were splitting the OF like Motherwell are doing this year. God help us if we didn't have the scoring ability of Stokes and Deek that year eh!.........So yes we were lucky to be so high in the league when in reality we didn't really desreve to be there due to our average performances and when injuries and form slumps kicked in we dropped to or rightful place, Yogi was unable to change things and couldn't even after a summer of new players.

Oh i understand what luck means, its when you win a game you did not deserve to. Which games were these games, as i was at a lot of those games and dont remember any bar Aberdeen away? You keep saying Yogi said as much, yet apparently Yogi talked pish. Can you also tell me the games Motherwell and Dundee utd were lucky in at the same time please, just to balance this out. Its only fair dont you think?

You also keep banging on we were lucky that Riordan and Stokes were scoring so well, am i wrong in thinking that was what they were paid to do, thats their job?

I'm confused, after injuries and form slumps we dropped to our rightful place, a place that was rewarded with a european place, yet we were lucky? Were we lucky our rightfull 4th place finish was a european place????????:confused:

[silverhibee]

Yogi is available and there would be no compo to pay, he has fire in his belly he has a point to prove can he be worse than CC ?

Granted this would be an unusual step a one off even to bring back a sacked manager but Yogi has passion for our club more than what CC Has.:flag:


Norton you are taking the Colin Nish if you want yogi back.

Yogi may have passion for the club, but that doesn't mean he should be given another chance, it aint gonna happen bud, so stop the nonsense eh. :aok:

[nortonhibby]

Norton you are taking the Colin Nish if you want yogi back.

Yogi may have passion for the club, but that doesn't mean he should be given another chance, it aint gonna happen bud, so stop the nonsense eh. :aok:

okay thaen lets give Colin time you will see Yogi should return in time, time that Yogi never got.

[silverhibee]

okay thaen lets give Colin time you will see Yogi should return in time, time that Yogi never got.


I dont want CC to be given anymore time, his time is up as far as i am concerned, Yogi will never manage Hibs again i am pretty sure of that, Yogi had his time as manager and blew the chance, wee are well rid of him and hopefully very soon wee will be well rid of CC. :aok:

[J-C]

Oh i understand what luck means, its when you win a game you did not deserve to. Which games were these games, as i was at a lot of those games and dont remember any bar Aberdeen away? You keep saying Yogi said as much, yet apparently Yogi talked pish. Can you also tell me the games Motherwell and Dundee utd were lucky in at the same time please, just to balance this out. Its only fair dont you think?

You also keep banging on we were lucky that Riordan and Stokes were scoring so well, am i wrong in thinking that was what they were paid to do, thats their job?

I'm confused, after injuries and form slumps we dropped to our rightful place, a place that was rewarded with a european place, yet we were lucky? Were we lucky our rightfull 4th place finish was a european place????????:confused:


OK then lets not use the word lucky.

We won a decent amount of games in 2009/10 quite a few of those games we didn't play great but still managed to scrape home with a 2-1/1-0 win, aslo had a good amount of draws then too, which at that time we were all grateful and it was a good time to be a Hibby. When form slump and injuries kicked in, Yogi didn't have the know how to change things and the slump in February started, we scraped into 4th after nearly throwing it all away and allowing Dundee U to overtake us.

Yes Lucky to have Stokes and Riordan on the books at that time because without their goals we would have been deep in the **** a lot earlier that February.

Lucky to get 4th because we already threw away 3rd and were almost caught by Motherwell, we had a poor 2nd half of the season and they had a good 2nd half, so yes lucky to get 4th as we nearly blew it.

Rightful place, well we should always be challenging for top 4, our history shows that's where we belong but unfortunately due to money constraints and bad management that hasn't happened too often recently.

[blackpoolhibs]

OK then lets not use the word lucky.
Thats fine by me
We won a decent amount of games in 2009/10 quite a few of those games we didn't play great but still managed to scrape home with a 2-1/1-0 win,
We were not outplayed at any time, and managed to take our chances. Something the opposition did not. So not lucky, glad you are using that word now.

aslo had a good amount of draws then too, which at that time we were all grateful and it was a good time to be a Hibby.
Yes it was a good time, made by a team playing decent, scoring goals and keeping them out at the other end. In fact before it went tits up, we had one of the best defensive records in Britain

When form slump and injuries kicked in, Yogi didn't have the know how to change things and the slump in February started, we scraped into 4th after nearly throwing it all away and allowing Dundee U to overtake us.
Yip Yogi was found out, he couldn't address the slide, we only took 11 points from 45

Yes Lucky to have Stokes and Riordan on the books at that time because without their goals we would have been deep in the **** a lot earlier that February.
There you go, i knew you couldn't resist, maybe we were unlucky, perhaps they should have scored more, have you thought of that? Or maybe hughes should have brought someone else to the club, someone who wouldnt score any goals???????

Lucky to get 4th because we already threw away 3rd and were almost caught by Motherwell, we had a poor 2nd half of the season and they had a good 2nd half, so yes lucky to get 4th as we nearly blew it.
There you go again using the lucky word, if we win any of the cups this year, i know but bear with me. If we score 2 goals in the first half, and concede 1 in the 2nd, will that be a lucky cup win, or a win because we scored more goals than the opposition?

Rightful place, well we should always be challenging for top 4, our history shows that's where we belong but unfortunately due to money constraints and bad management that hasn't happened too often recently.

You said after the slump, we fell to our rightful place, the place where our form should have taken us to. and that 4th place entitled us to a european spot. And yet again you failed to tell me as do everyone who calls our 4th place finish lucky, you failed to tell me just how many games Motherwell and Dundee Utd were lucky in. Dont you think this is a fair question?

[J-C]

You said after the slump, we fell to our rightful place, the place where our form should have taken us to. and that 4th place entitled us to a european spot. And yet again you failed to tell me as do everyone who calls our 4th place finish lucky, you failed to tell me just how many games Motherwell and Dundee Utd were lucky in. Dont you think this is a fair question?


Lucky having Riordan and Stokes because without their goals we would've been in a worse spot.

Yes we got 4th and desreved it but almost blew it away after February, why?? Yogi didn't address the sitution and we nearly threw it away.

As for Dundee U and Motherwell........not being a fan of either of these teams I have no knowledge of their individual reasults but I do know that after the turn of the year they both went on a decent run of games. Dundee U good enough to overtake us and Motherwell almost good enough to snatch 4th place.


There's nothing wrong with the word lucky, a lot of big teams ride their luck and sometimes having that wee bit luck helps you gain the points needed, we had a decent amount that season but it quickly disappeared and Yogi was shown for the bad manager he was.

This is all in the past Gary and surely the present and the future is more important, we need shot of CC and Petrie. CC because he just isn't good enough to take this club forward and Petrie because he's strangling the club to death, not a football man and driven by money.

[bawheid]

Lucky having Riordan and Stokes because without their goals we would've been in a worse spot.


Your argument really is unneccessary and ridiculous.

Who signed Stokes and who picked both him and Riordan?

You keep banging on about the run that Dundee United and Motherwell went on after Christmas. What about the run Hibs were on before Christmas? How can one run be lucky and the other two runs not? Methinks you have the runs from your mouth!

Hughes talked a monumental amount of pish and appeared unable to arrest our slump in form. But give some credit where it's due. He got the club playing in Europe.

[blackpoolhibs]

Lucky having Riordan and Stokes because without their goals we would've been in a worse spot.

Yes we got 4th and desreved it but almost blew it away after February, why?? Yogi didn't address the sitution and we nearly threw it away.

As for Dundee U and Motherwell........not being a fan of either of these teams I have no knowledge of their individual reasults but I do know that after the turn of the year they both went on a decent run of games. Dundee U good enough to overtake us and Motherwell almost good enough to snatch 4th place.


There's nothing wrong with the word lucky, a lot of big teams ride their luck and sometimes having that wee bit luck helps you gain the points needed, we had a decent amount that season but it quickly disappeared and Yogi was shown for the bad manager he was.

This is all in the past Gary and surely the present and the future is more important, we need shot of CC and Petrie. CC because he just isn't good enough to take this club forward and Petrie because he's strangling the club to death, not a football man and driven by money.

I know there is nothing wrong with a little luck, i wish we had some now. What irks me is when people like yourself say we were lucky from August to February 14th, when imo we certainly were not. We might have won the odd close game with a bit of genius from Stokes or Riordan, and having the solid defence we clearly had, but that is not lucky, we payed good money for that genius, its what they do, its why they earn more than most.

As you say, you cant tell me how many games the other two teams were lucky, and thats fine, neither can i. But its not beyond the realms of possibility that they also got lucky, they also won a few games they maybe should not have?

I now see you are saying we deserved that 4th place finish, if thats so, then we cant have been lucky, surely?????

I dont know why you are asking why Yogi did not address the situation, when i have clearly stated he did not have the ability to do so. He did deserve the chance to though, or should he have been sacked after the Rangers defeat on the 14th of february?

[J-C]

I know there is nothing wrong with a little luck, i wish we had some now. What irks me is when people like yourself say we were lucky from August to February 14th, when imo we certainly were not. We might have won the odd close game with a bit of genius from Stokes or Riordan, and having the solid defence we clearly had, but that is not lucky, we payed good money for that genius, its what they do, its why they earn more than most.

As you say, you cant tell me how many games the other two teams were lucky, and thats fine, neither can i. But its not beyond the realms of possibility that they also got lucky, they also won a few games they maybe should not have?

I now see you are saying we deserved that 4th place finish, if thats so, then we cant have been lucky, surely?????

I dont know why you are asking why Yogi did not address the situation, when i have clearly stated he did not have the ability to do so. He did deserve the chance to though, or should he have been sacked after the Rangers defeat on the 14th of february?. We deserved 4th due to decent football, decent defending, 2 cracking goal scorers, players playing on form and a wee bit luck on the way. We were eventually lucky in the end cause we contrived to almost throw it away, it was deserved but Christ very lucky not to make a pigs ear of it. Hughes hot the chance to build from that season but as we now know he didn't and was replaced.

[blackpoolhibs]

. We deserved 4th due to decent football, decent defending, 2 cracking goal scorers, players playing on form and a wee bit luck on the way. We were eventually lucky in the end cause we contrived to almost throw it away, it was deserved but Christ very lucky not to make a pigs ear of it. Hughes hot the chance to build from that season but as we now know he didn't and was replaced.

Wasting my time?