Looking at 5,000 crowds and 3,000 ST Holders Next Season

[Dashing Bob S]

We've picked a great time to embrace stultifying mediocrity, when people are skint and just looking for things to cut back on. Judging by the posts I'm reading on here, it seems a no-brainer for most folk that the visits to ER and watching the current Hibs side are pretty much top of the budgeting list.

Petrie understands little about football, and I'm also beginning to believe that his oft-touted financial acumen has deserted him if he can't do these simple sums. We've lost about a third of our support over eighteen months and will soon be down to less than half of our Mowbray level.

The board seriously need to wake up and bring in somebody who can galvanize the support by playing the kind of football we want to see.

[nortonhibby]

let RP
We've picked a great time to embrace stultifying mediocrity, when people are skint and just looking for things to cut back on. Judging by the posts I'm reading on here, it seems a no-brainer for most folk that the visits to ER and watching the current Hibs side are pretty much top of the budgeting list.

Petrie understands little about football, and I'm also beginning to believe that his oft-touted financial acumen has deserted him if he can't do these simple sums. We've lost about a third of our support over eighteen months and will soon be down to less than half of our Mowbray level.

The board seriously need to wake up and bring in somebody who can galvanize the support by playing the kind of football we want to see.

With all the empty seats why bother with a season ticket ? see how its going and pick your game:flag:

[IWasThere2016]

The decision to invest in the East before building up the team and the fan base to create the demand for the supply was an abortion of a decision. It created over-supply to a diminishing market. It was not needed.

Did we increase ticket prices also?

[woody47]

The decision to invest in the East before building up the team and the fan base to create the demand for the supply was an abortion of a decision. It created over-supply to a diminishing market. It was not needed.

Did we increase ticket prices also?

I believe, if I remember properly, that we had to build the east because of planning permissions. If we hadn't at that time the permit would have run out and we would have had to reapply which, apart from extra costs, we might not necessarily have been given permission.
However, I do think that the board really need to invest in the team because fans have had enough of the penny pinching.

[hibsbollah]

We are doing a league cup and scottish cup double this season. This time next year we will have sell out 21,000 stadium every week. Doom and gloomers GTF. In Palsson and Scott we trust :flag:

[IWasThere2016]

I believe, if I remember properly, that we had to build the east because of planning permissions. If we hadn't at that time the permit would have run out and we would have had to reapply which, apart from extra costs, we might not necessarily have been given permission.
However, I do think that the board really need to invest in the team because fans have had enough of the penny pinching.

I think we had to start work - not necessarily complete. Besides we cannot afford to invest. The fan base has dwindled - we are losing money, had reduced cash levels and more debt from building the East Stand.

They say its 6x harder to get a new customer than retain an existing one - this Board has held office as thousands of fans have walked. Time for change.

[Newhaven]

The decision to invest in the East before building up the team and the fan base to create the demand for the supply was an abortion of a decision. It created over-supply to a diminishing market. It was not needed.

Did we increase ticket prices also?

Its Hibs. Of course we did :wink:

[lucky]

out of 7 season ticket holders will be lucky if 3 get one next season. The club is dying and the board don't seem to care.

[Expecting Rain]

We've picked a great time to embrace stultifying mediocrity, when people are skint and just looking for things to cut back on. Judging by the posts I'm reading on here, it seems a no-brainer for most folk that the visits to ER and watching the current Hibs side are pretty much top of the budgeting list.

Petrie understands little about football, and I'm also beginning to believe that his oft-touted financial acumen has deserted him if he can't do these simple sums. We've lost about a third of our support over eighteen months and will soon be down to less than half of our Mowbray level.

The board seriously need to wake up and bring in somebody who can galvanize the support by playing the kind of football we want to see.

Bob, i haven`t been back to Easter Road since the 0-0 draw with St Johnstone last season, i can`t see any reason for being optimistic under Caldwell, we`ve replaced rubbish with more rubbish excluding O`Connor who has virtually scored all of our goals, the thing is the longer you stay away the easier it gets, fortunately Dunfermline and Inverness appear to be worse than us and even that is probably open to debate.

[Dalkeith]

let RP

With all the empty seats why bother with a season ticket ? see how its going and pick your game:flag:

thats what i have done this season and only managed 2 games

[Baldy]

yesterday was the 2nd home game this season that I opted to work rather than go to the game,

As it is at the moment, I would rather make money than go.. and it's all down to the fact I can't sit and enjoy the dross that is on display at Easter Road

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The decision to invest in the East before building up the team and the fan base to create the demand for the supply was an abortion of a decision. It created over-supply to a diminishing market. It was not needed.

Did we increase ticket prices also?

Was Speaking about this yesterday. You do have to ask what the plan was given the oversupply and less urgency for season tickets.
Conclusion was if we were ever going to cOmplete then that was the optimal time to do it.
I can recall getting pulled up by SL in the listening group for suggesting that like Plymouth we had to make the choice between stadium and team SL argued we'd invested in both.
Look where Plymouth are now - mind you they suffered blobby and luggy.

Also concluded that th board could argue they backed their managers just backed the wrong ones tho JC probably has cause to feel aggrieved.

[Borderhibbie76]

On this note, I emailed Fyfe Hyland as soon as I got back from the match yest, wonder what kind of response I'll get...probably the usual "thanks for your continued support" c##p that I've had back previously from them...

Dear Mr Hyland,

I find myself typing this Email to you, just back from yet another hapless performance and yet another home defeat.

So, here we are in mid-October and ONE solitary point off the bottom of the SPL.

I was all for giving Colin Calderwood more time at the start of the season but come on enough is enough. The man clearly doesn't have a clue what his best line-up is, he constantly plays players out of their natural position and above all he has us playing a brand of football that would make your eyes bleed. Meanwhile the likes of Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St Mirren, I am sure you will agree, much smaller clubs than us with a lower fanbase, are playing attractive exciting football.

I for one have had enough of spending my hard-earned cash every week to watch this absolute rubbish. £22 and yet the Motherwell goalie could have take the afternoon off, for all he had to do.

You asked us to stand up and be counted, well now it's your turn. For god's sake act now before it's too late, we are already down to crowds of 8500, does that not tell you something?

Mr Calderwood now has one of the WORST records of any Hibs manager, and his year in charge has been utterly miserable for everyone concerned. Probably even himself, as clearly he does not want to be here, his manner on the touchline every Sat tells me that.

As a board of directors, you made a massive mistake in the summer not accepting the compensation offered to let this clown go and you are now paying a heavy price for that mistake, as are we the paying public.

I really don't know how much longer I am prepared to stump up cash that I can ill afford in these difficult times to watch that rubbish week in week out...

You may have given us a lovely stadium and training complex, but for want of a better phrase, the team on the park are c##p!!!! And that is solely Mr Calderwood's responsibility. His record is appalling and in any other walk of like he would have been dismissed quite some time ago!!!

A very disgruntled fan
(Judging by today's attendance, 1 of 1000's)

[.Sean.]

I'll certainly not be renewing unless prices fall. This once great club is being ruined by the incoherant *******s that are running the show.

[Kaiser1962]

The decision to invest in the East before building up the team and the fan base to create the demand for the supply was an abortion of a decision. It created over-supply to a diminishing market. It was not needed.

Did we increase ticket prices also?

You are probably right in that it wasnt needed but I think we were driven by factors outside our control.

[Kaiser1962]

I think we had to start work - not necessarily complete. Besides we cannot afford to invest. The fan base has dwindled - we are losing money, had reduced cash levels and more debt from building the East Stand.

They say its 6x harder to get a new customer than retain an existing one - this Board has held office as thousands of fans have walked. Time for change.


It could also be argued that they managed to build the fan base from its previous level but, for whatever reason, they have not been able to sustain it.

[booshsutton]

I think we had to start work - not necessarily complete. Besides we cannot afford to invest. The fan base has dwindled - we are losing money, had reduced cash levels and more debt from building the East Stand.

This is correct, Planning Permission is granted for a period of 3 years now (It was 5 years and would have been when the east stand was approved) and you must start work within this period. Once works have been started then the permission is granted in perpetuity.

If Hibs had notified The City of Edinburgh Council that works were commencing and then laid some kerbs or built some new fences as approved in the Planning Approval, then works could have been carried out to complete the works at any time. Building Warrant is a different kettle of fish as work needs to be completed within the 3 year period, although this can be extended and is generally applied for nearer to the time of planned costruction.

[Baker9]

I think we had to start work - not necessarily complete. Besides we cannot afford to invest. The fan base has dwindled - we are losing money, had reduced cash levels and more debt from building the East Stand.

They say its 6x harder to get a new customer than retain an existing one - this Board has held office as thousands of fans have walked. Time for change.

I've heard it put slightly differently. It costs 7 times more to attract a new customer than it does to retain a happy existing customer. Combine that with the suggestion that 80% of any company's profits can be traced to only 20% of its customers, any drift away by loyal fans in this economic climate is alarming. Be passionate about looking after your existing customers is the message. Financial people just don't seem to get this concept.

[snooky]

The saddest part of the lot is that this must be the poorest SPL we've ever had. The Tornadoes would have had the league sewn up already with the standard that's out there (OF included). Having said that, our league position shows how far we have really fallen - and maybe, will continue to fall.
Major surgery required (yet again) or we're :dead:

[IWasThere2016]

I've heard it put slightly differently. It costs 7 times more to attract a new customer than it does to retain a happy existing customer. Combine that with the suggestion that 80% of any company's profits can be traced to only 20% of its customers, any drift away by loyal fans in this economic climate is alarming. Be passionate about looking after your existing customers is the message. Financial people just don't seem to get this concept.

I'm a Director of Finance and I get it :wink:

The team is CORE business - nothing else. The USP is and will always be good football not shiny empty seats!

[nortonhibby]

On this note, I emailed Fyfe Hyland as soon as I got back from the match yest, wonder what kind of response I'll get...probably the usual "thanks for your continued support" c##p that I've had back previously from them...

Dear Mr Hyland,

I find myself typing this Email to you, just back from yet another hapless performance and yet another home defeat.

So, here we are in mid-October and ONE solitary point off the bottom of the SPL.

I was all for giving Colin Calderwood more time at the start of the season but come on enough is enough. The man clearly doesn't have a clue what his best line-up is, he constantly plays players out of their natural position and above all he has us playing a brand of football that would make your eyes bleed. Meanwhile the likes of Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St Mirren, I am sure you will agree, much smaller clubs than us with a lower fanbase, are playing attractive exciting football.

I for one have had enough of spending my hard-earned cash every week to watch this absolute rubbish. £22 and yet the Motherwell goalie could have take the afternoon off, for all he had to do.

You asked us to stand up and be counted, well now it's your turn. For god's sake act now before it's too late, we are already down to crowds of 8500, does that not tell you something?

Mr Calderwood now has one of the WORST records of any Hibs manager, and his year in charge has been utterly miserable for everyone concerned. Probably even himself, as clearly he does not want to be here, his manner on the touchline every Sat tells me that.

As a board of directors, you made a massive mistake in the summer not accepting the compensation offered to let this clown go and you are now paying a heavy price for that mistake, as are we the paying public.

I really don't know how much longer I am prepared to stump up cash that I can ill afford in these difficult times to watch that rubbish week in week out...

You may have given us a lovely stadium and training complex, but for want of a better phrase, the team on the park are c##p!!!! And that is solely Mr Calderwood's responsibility. His record is appalling and in any other walk of like he would have been dismissed quite some time ago!!!

A very disgruntled fan
(Judging by today's attendance, 1 of 1000's)

Are you sure the reply about your continued support is not a computer generated out of office reply ?

[Baker9]

I'm a Director of Finance and I get it :wink:

The team is CORE business - nothing else. The USP is and will always be good football not shiny empty seats!

Some financial people don't get it:greengrin
I'd rather think in terms of UPB (unique perceived benefit) than USP, subtley different but more apt and in keeping with the customer centric concept.:taxi

[IWasThere2016]

Some financial people don't get it:greengrin
I'd rather think in terms of UPB (unique perceived benefit) than USP, subtley different but more apt and in keeping with the customer centric concept.:taxi

Nice edit - appreciated too :greengrin

I hear ye re UPB. To counter, Steve Jobs wasn't customer-focussed .. he knew what his customers wanted before they did. Perhaps, RP is a similar genius to Jobs and realises that as Hibbys were are inherently massochistic and we want a pish team! :greengrin

[Hibs On Tour]

I'm a Director of Finance and I get it :wink:

The team is CORE business - nothing else. The USP is and will always be good football not shiny empty seats!

I've also seen in various studies that a 1% increase in prices tends not to have a noticeable decrease in sales. But that could be *****! :greengrin

[matty_f]

Hibernian, f*** off Midlothian, we'll be your customers evermore....:rolleyes:

I've been a lifelong Hibernian customer, and my kids will be their customers too. There's been a long tradition of Hibernian custom in the family. Some of the best customers in the world are Hibs customers.

[Baker9]

Nice edit - appreciated too :greengrin

I hear ye re UPB. To counter, Steve Jobs wasn't customer-focussed .. he knew what his customers wanted before they did. Perhaps, RP is a similar genius to Jobs and realises that as Hibbys were are inherently massochistic and we want a pish team! :greengrin

He was a genius in a rapidly developing market. What RP has done for Hibs is a mini form of genius. His job was done two years ago and he should have reitired with a statue in his honour. We need a genius in a rapidly declining market and that genius has to be a footballing genius - a sort of Stevie Jobs.:greengrin

[Keith_M]

I can see that the East stand has reduced the need to buy a Season Ticket but I don't think it was the wrong time to rebuild it.

Firstly, it had to be built sometime and there was always going to be a financial hit.

Secondly, because of the economic conditions at the time, the stand was built for much less that it would have cost otherwise. It worked out at roughly 500quid per seat, much less than most other re-builds.


I'm not defending the board in all their decisions (especially management appointments), just pointing out that it's not as simple as some are making out as regards the new stand. A lot of people were against the re-building at the time and they're probably the same people now blaming all our current ills on this one decision. Even with the cost of the new stand, I'm sure Hibs still have more potential financially to build a half decent team than the likes of Motherwell, and they're currently second top of the league.

[superfurryhibby]

I can see that the East stand has reduced the need to buy a Season Ticket but I don't think it was the wrong time to rebuild it.

Firstly, it had to be built sometime and there was always going to be a financial hit.

Secondly, because of the economic conditions at the time, the stand was built for much less that it would have cost otherwise. It worked out at roughly 500quid per seat, much less than most other re-builds.


I'm not defending the board in all their decisions (especially management appointments), just pointing out that it's not as simple as some are making out as regards the new stand. A lot of people were against the re-building at the time and they're probably the same people now blaming all our current ills on this one decision. Even with the cost of the new stand, I'm sure Hibs still have more potential financially to build a half decent team than the likes of Motherwell, and they're currently second top of the league.


That's the key. Ok, the cost of the new stand has obviously impacted on budgets but no one can seriously say that teams like Motherwell, St Johnstone or St Mirren have greater financial clout. I'm sure our overall player budget is far higher than their's?

Seems to me that Calderwood has had sufficient levels of funding but just hasn't used it very wisely, In addition, he seems unable to get the most out of what's here. The turnover of personnel at ER over the past few years is quite remarkable. We now seem to be in Duffy like scenario of lots of poor quality players and clueless management.

I haven't been to ER this season and like many, chose not to renew a season ticket. The reasons are simple. I am skint and not prepared to spend the cash onwatching the dross offered. The writing was on the wall last season and it seems that this one will prove equally, if not more grim. The same happened the last time we were relagated. Play off and survival by the skin of our teeth, followed by relegation the following season. It's not as if we weren't warned.

[blackpoolhibs]

[/B]


That's the key. Ok, the cost of the new stand has obviously impacted on budgets but no one can seriously say that teams like Motherwell, St Johnstone or St Mirren have greater financial clout. I'm sure our overall player budget is far higher than their's?

Seems to me that Calderwood has had sufficient levels of funding but just hasn't used it very wisely, In addition, he seems unable to get the most out of what's here. The turnover of personnel at ER over the past few years is quite remarkable. We now seem to be in Duffy like scenario of lots of poor quality players and clueless management.

I haven't been to ER this season and like many, chose not to renew a season ticket. The reasons are simple. I am skint and not prepared to spend the cash onwatching the dross offered. The writing was on the wall last season and it seems that this one will prove equally, if not more grim. The same happened the last time we were relagated. Play off and survival by the skin of our teeth, followed by relegation the following season. It's not as if we weren't warned.

Thats the point a lot of people i feel miss, you can bang on about how much the stand cost, or even the training centre, but the clowns we appoint as manager couldn't spot a player if they head butted them square on the nose.

Even after our spending on the infrastructure, we still outspend most of this league. The manager of our club has proven beyond reasonable doubt he just cant manage. He couldn't manage the players he inherited, and he cant manage the ones he's brought to the club. He's been a disaster from day 1, yet plenty with much less resources than we have continue to embarrass us. Its easy imo to see who's to blame.

The training centre and stands are built, we cant knock them down. Its pointless bringing them into the argument, this clown would only have wasted any extra money he had anyway. the facts are we spend more than most, but under perform more than most. The manager must take the brunt of the blame.

[IWasThere2016]

Thats the point a lot of people i feel miss, you can bang on about how much the stand cost, or even the training centre, but the clowns we appoint as manager couldn't spot a player if they head butted them square on the nose.

Even after our spending on the infrastructure, we still outspend most of this league. The manager of our club has proven beyond reasonable doubt he just cant manage. He couldn't manage the players he inherited, and he cant manage the ones he's brought to the club. He's been a disaster from day 1, yet plenty with much less resources than we have continue to embarrass us. Its easy imo to see who's to blame.

The training centre and stands are built, we cant knock them down. Its pointless bringing them into the argument, this clown would only have wasted any extra money he had anyway. the facts are we spend more than most, but under perform more than most. The manager must take the brunt of the blame.

So lower costs - debt, operating costs (East Mains) would have no impact on the quality of manager or player we could acquire? And the improved quality on the park would have no bearing on results and income? Right enough :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

So lower costs - debt, operating costs (East Mains) would have no impact on the quality of manager or player we could acquire? And the improved quality on the park would have no bearing on results and income? Right enough :rolleyes:

Of course it would, but the east stand was a disgrace. Its been built, and done while we still spend more than most on players and managers. I'm with you that Petrie has served his time, but we should still be doing a LOT better with the funds we spend. And the new stadium should be filling up because of that, and thats the managers fault. If we had the team that Motherwell have assembled on a lot less than Calderwoods spent, we'd be having very good crowds, and nobody would be talking about building the stand.

[IWasThere2016]

Of course it would, but the east stand was a disgrace. Its been built, and done while we still spend more than most on players and managers. I'm with you that Petrie has served his time, but we should still be doing a LOT better with the funds we spend. And the new stadium should be filling up because of that, and thats the managers fault. If we had the team that Motherwell have assembled on a lot less than Calderwoods spent, we'd be having very good crowds, and nobody would be talking about building the stand.

And Yogi .. the crowds were falling under him also. Something lost on many. The stand wasn't needed. It has inhibited us on the park.

Glad we agree on RP .. seems more and more do also.

[blackpoolhibs]

And Yogi .. the crowds were falling under him also. Something lost on many. The stand wasn't needed. It has inhibited us on the park.

Glad we agree on RP .. seems more and more do also.

11500 average when he went, still crowds way in excess of what we have now, built on the good season his team that finished 4th had. Calderwood is the one thats inhibiting us, and still no explanation how other clubs spending much less than we do, are doing better than us, all while building the new stand. How are they managing this?

[IWasThere2016]

11500 average when he went, still crowds way in excess of what we have now, built on the good season his team that finished 4th had. Calderwood is the one thats inhibiting us, and still no explanation how other clubs spending much less than we do, are doing better than us, all while building the new stand. How are they managing this?

Yogi - Sat 11/9 - ICT 11,938 Drew 1-1
Yogi - Sat 18/9 - Accies 11,294 Drew 1-1
Evans/Stevenson - Sat 16/10 - Killie 11,256 Win 2-1
CC - Sat 13/11 - Motherwell 11,178 Win 2-1

So even when winning the crowds were falling in 2010/11. We didn't need the East. Will we ever? I doubt it. What we didn't need was more debt/higher costs when losing money and fans (as we have been doing since 2004/05 IIRC)

[bawheid]

We didn't need the East. Will we ever? I doubt it.

Vastly short-sighted IMO. The stadium is now fit for the next 50 years at least.

[Keith_M]

Thats the point a lot of people i feel miss, you can bang on about how much the stand cost, or even the training centre, but the clowns we appoint as manager couldn't spot a player if they head butted them square on the nose.


:agree:

[Big Frank]

Vastly short-sighted IMO. The stadium is now fit for the next 50 years at least.

Correct.

[steakbake]

Vastly short-sighted IMO. The stadium is now fit for the next 50 years at least.

Definitely. The stadium is good, the training facilities are also apparently, second to none though seemingly ineffectual.

[Dashing Bob S]

Hibs have a culture and a legacy, which insists we operate in a certain way. You can probably trace the romanticism back to us being an excluded, immigrant club (without replicating all the tiresome Celtic chip-on-the-shoulder guff) through to having one of the Wembley Wizards in the double cup final glorious defeat side of the 30's. It found it's highest expression in the interchanging passing game of the Famous Five, and we were tided over by superstars like Joe Baker until Turnbull's Tornadoes. We've had the second phase of Alex Miller, the McLeish and Mowbray sides since then.

Of course, in between this, we've had a load of absolute guff; early Miller, Bertie Auld and Bobby Williamson spring to mind. But at least we always, as a support, aspire to that lineage above. We're now in a period, under Calderwood, and following the second half of the Hughes regime, of perhaps the most inexplicably sustained mediocrity in our recent history.

We either need from a board or management team: 1) entertaining football, or 2) results, with the promise of entertaining football to come. Instead we have poor football that is pretty much unwatchable from any purist point of view.

The board needs an injection of enthusiasm. We have a lot of well-meaning financial guys but we don't have a football man, a real Hibs man on the board. I don't mean a Director of Football, but a Director FOR football, a Stanton or O'Rourke, who have Hibs in their soul, somebody in there reminding the accountants to keep it real. Of course, they're not always going to get there own way, and they probably shouldn't, but that voice seems to be singularly missing from the debate in the boardroom right now.

I'm not going to say what the management team needs, because it's all be said. Right now, it seems like we have now a temporary manager and a temporary squad. Everybody will be out of contract over the next 18 months. I think a lot of fans are staying away as they have no intention of putting up with stop-gap nonsense till then.

[mcfly]

ive been reading these threads and there is a lot of anger from the fans and justifiably so, Sat was awful and if stack hadnt been so good surely CC would have been binned by 5pm Sat.

as fans we must back the team cause only the 11 players on the pitch can turn around our fortunes.

Any anger must be directed at the manager & the board who appointed him. they are getting off very lightly in my view and must be held to account, they are all highly paid and if they cant sort out this mess then they must be removed.

Am i suspicious but why the delay in the AGM?? - i said before what is the length of cc's contract?? - are they gonna sack him on the day of the agm to save there skin again?

the fans are the lifeblood of hibs and without us paying money through the turnstiles then hibs will cease to exist.

So lets back the team but any anger must be directed at the board and no one else - if they released more money then we could afford better players

[son of haggart]

Hibs have a culture and a legacy, which insists we operate in a certain way. You can probably trace the romanticism back to us being an excluded, immigrant club (without replicating all the tiresome Celtic chip-on-the-shoulder guff) through to having one of the Wembley Wizards in the double cup final glorious defeat side of the 30's. It found it's highest expression in the interchanging passing game of the Famous Five, and we were tided over by superstars like Joe Baker until Turnbull's Tornadoes. We've had the second phase of Alex Miller, the McLeish and Mowbray sides since then.

Of course, in between this, we've had a load of absolute guff; early Miller, Bertie Auld and Bobby Williamson spring to mind. But at least we always, as a support, aspire to that lineage above. We're now in a period, under Calderwood, and following the second half of the Hughes regime, of perhaps the most inexplicably sustained mediocrity in our recent history.

We either need from a board or management team: 1) entertaining football, or 2) results, with the promise of entertaining football to come. Instead we have poor football that is pretty much unwatchable from any purist point of view.

The board needs an injection of enthusiasm. We have a lot of well-meaning financial guys but we don't have a football man, a real Hibs man on the board. I don't mean a Director of Football, but a Director FOR football, a Stanton or O'Rourke, who have Hibs in their soul, somebody in there reminding the accountants to keep it real. Of course, they're not always going to get there own way, and they probably shouldn't, but that voice seems to be singularly missing from the debate in the boardroom right now.

I'm not going to say what the management team needs, because it's all be said. Right now, it seems like we have now a temporary manager and a temporary squad. Everybody will be out of contract over the next 18 months. I think a lot of fans are staying away as they have no intention of putting up with stop-gap nonsense till then.

It's that last two sentences bit that mystifies me about Hibs policy. It seems to be the idea is that you can grow your own while having a smattering of more experienced pros on short term contracts. This prevents the longer term duds (and we've had a few of these at Tynie in recent years)

That might seem to work as a theory but in practice it is giving you over exposed novices and under-enthused journeymen. Financially it also seems to be a backfiring plan - the young players are not going to accrue value in a team which is as shaky as Hibs, and when one fo the short terms goes well - eg O'Connor, Stokes they're offski with little or no fee. It also IMHO destabilises the team as you have too few senior leaders with a vested interest in the future (Murray, ?)

[IWasThere2016]

Vastly short-sighted IMO. The stadium is now fit for the next 50 years at least.

Short-sighted was spending the last of the cash; assuming it would be readily replaced in a diminishing market. If it is to last 50 years why didn't we finance it over the longer-term and, in parallel, try to build the team/fan base?

[steakbake]

Lots of people on here beseech the players to show some kind of loyalty or passion for the badge. It's not going to be found amongst players who are just passing through to somewhere else. For many of our current players, Hibs will be an interlude before going somewhere next. They don't give a monkey's really. The same way that I do my job but I'll not be entertaining anything like the thought that I'll be there when I retire. My loyalty is limited to my own self preservation, bank balance and future prospects.

I'd contend that it seems unlikely you'll get teams filled with loyal insiders who will be that bothered about the long term of the club. A successful manager though, will get work out of the men at his disposal and try to instil some pride in playing for the group of players they are with and achieving success. In the modern game in which players come from all over the world, the local badge-kisser playing his career for his boyhood heroes is a rarity (despite what the Record will have you believe) but the professional sportsman who wants to do well for his own professional pride and his team mates is just as valuable a replacement.

It takes good man-management to bring that out of people but the right attitude has to be there in the first place.

[nortonhibby]

11500 average when he went, still crowds way in excess of what we have now, built on the good season his team that finished 4th had. Calderwood is the one thats inhibiting us, and still no explanation how other clubs spending much less than we do, are doing better than us, all while building the new stand. How are they managing this?

we are hovering around the 8.5k mark now so around 3k fans lost so far under CC. RP Must see this:confused:

[son of haggart]

we are hovering around the 8.5k mark now so around 3k fans lost so far under CC. RP Must see this:confused:

That's not accurate - the average is pulled up by OF and Hearts games - you have lost 2,000 Hearts have lost 200 Aberdeen have gained 400 in the same period. Celtic an rangers are up 1,000 each:confused:

[nortonhibby]

FOR cc
That's not accurate - the average is pulled up by OF and Hearts games - you have lost 2,000 Hearts have lost 200 Aberdeen have gained 400 in the same period. Celtic an rangers are up 1,000 each:confused:

8.5k at the game on Saturday would have been 11.5 under Mogga so 3k lost so far under CC.:taxi

[IWasThere2016]

FOR cc

8.5k at the game on Saturday would have been 11.5 under Mogga so 3k lost so far under CC.:taxi

You're comparing a single fixture vs an average (trust you mean Yogi and not Mogga) - so flawed logic.

I'd trust SOH on this one personally.

[basehibby]

I can see that the East stand has reduced the need to buy a Season Ticket but I don't think it was the wrong time to rebuild it.

Firstly, it had to be built sometime and there was always going to be a financial hit.

Secondly, because of the economic conditions at the time, the stand was built for much less that it would have cost otherwise. It worked out at roughly 500quid per seat, much less than most other re-builds.


I'm not defending the board in all their decisions (especially management appointments), just pointing out that it's not as simple as some are making out as regards the new stand. A lot of people were against the re-building at the time and they're probably the same people now blaming all our current ills on this one decision. Even with the cost of the new stand, I'm sure Hibs still have more potential financially to build a half decent team than the likes of Motherwell, and they're currently second top of the league.

:agree: This is my understanding as well - which together with the time limits on the planning application made it a good decision to go ahead and complete the stadium IMO. Where I think the board has gone wrong is in failing to underpin that investment by investing properly in the team on the park - including the manager!
If they want to fill up these stands then the fans need something to get excited about. Instead, the trend seems to have been to continue a very cautious approach to signings and wage ceilings etc. of which Calderwoods appointment was symptomatic IMO.
It's still not too late to put that right but it'll take an injection of cash from our esteemed owner to make it happen. It took that to rejuvenate the club in the wake of Duff Jimmy some years ago - lets not wait until we're relegated to do it this time!

[son of haggart]

FOR cc

8.5k at the game on Saturday would have been 11.5 under Mogga so 3k lost so far under CC.:taxi

I think you've missed a manager or two

Hibs average attendances have been dropping steadily since the good days of 2006/7 but it is fair to say the drop in the last 18 months has been significantly worse



2006/7 14587
2007/8 14004
2008/9 12684
2009/10 12164
2010/11 11756
2011/12 9430

[IWasThere2016]

I think you've missed a manager or two

Hibs average attendances have been dropping steadily since the good days of 2006/7 but it is fair to say the drop in the last 18 months has been significantly worse



2006/7 14587
2007/8 14004
2008/9 12684
2009/10 12164
2010/11 11756
2011/12 9430

And there was me thinking it was all Colin Calderwood's fault.

The Board's pay:income % will be rising though! :grr:

Crowds down 5k or 35% in 5 years!

[bawheid]

Short-sighted was spending the last of the cash; assuming it would be readily replaced in a diminishing market. If it is to last 50 years why didn't we finance it over the longer-term and, in parallel, try to build the team/fan base?

Presumably because it cost less to finance it at the time. Why burden yourself with a 50 year debt when you can pay at the time?

You'd have had us spend the cash on Alan Gow and Jamie Smith. That's what John Collins wanted to do with it. Where would that have got us?

[EasterRoad4Ever]

It's that last two sentences bit that mystifies me about Hibs policy. It seems to be the idea is that you can grow your own while having a smattering of more experienced pros on short term contracts. This prevents the longer term duds (and we've had a few of these at Tynie in recent years)

That might seem to work as a theory but in practice it is giving you over exposed novices and under-enthused journeymen. Financially it also seems to be a backfiring plan - the young players are not going to accrue value in a team which is as shaky as Hibs, and when one fo the short terms goes well - eg O'Connor, Stokes they're offski with little or no fee. It also IMHO destabilises the team as you have too few senior leaders with a vested interest in the future (Murray, ?)


Difficult to argue against that. Hibs as a football club are a mess right now - a hotch-pot of (mainly poor quality) players on short term deals and a manager who doesn't want to lead them. There is no cohesive strategy or long-term thinking. The club is haemoraging fans and the Board seem incapable of addressing the problem - just hoping it all turns around.

[Cropley10]

I think you've missed a manager or two

Hibs average attendances have been dropping steadily since the good days of 2006/7 but it is fair to say the drop in the last 18 months has been significantly worse



2006/7 14587
2007/8 14004
2008/9 12684
2009/10 12164
2010/11 11756
2011/12 9430

Aren't we also including STs now whether they show or no?

[YehButNoBut]

Even that t*t Ewan Murray has been commenting on our attendances on Twitter, he might have a point mind you. :jamboclow

@mrewanmurray (http://www.hibs.net/#!/mrewanmurray) Ewan Murray
Hibs' figures in a year's time could be interesting if slump isn't halted. Crowds not getting any better and what other assets to sell?

[Joe Baker II]

Presumably because it cost less to finance it at the time. Why burden yourself with a 50 year debt when you can pay at the time?

You'd have had us spend the cash on Alan Gow and Jamie Smith. That's what John Collins wanted to do with it. Where would that have got us?

Not a valid argument, these players were decent in 2007, Gow in 2010 was a shadow of what he was then.

There was no need to build East Stand at all - and fact outcome actually defers fans from going and buying season tickets just proves that.

[son of haggart]

Aren't we also including STs now whether they show or no?

I understand so - which would make the financial effect greater of course.

[nortonhibby]

I think you've missed a manager or two

Hibs average attendances have been dropping steadily since the good days of 2006/7 but it is fair to say the drop in the last 18 months has been significantly worse



2006/7 14587
2007/8 14004
2008/9 12684
2009/10 12164
2010/11 11756
2011/12 9430


The trend is there for RP To see a 5k drop in 5 years which on current 2011/12 figures is more than a 50% drop on our current Attendancies.
Next season will see a significant drop as season ticket sales will drop like a stone if CC Remains going into next season after us just missing out on Relegation the Stadium will be less than 25% full for most games outwith Old Firm and yams next season.

[greenlex]

So lower costs - debt, operating costs (East Mains) would have no impact on the quality of manager or player we could acquire? And the improved quality on the park would have no bearing on results and income? Right enough :rolleyes:

I think the point is even with the infrastructure costs we are spending more than anyone outside the Old Firm and the Gorgie basketcases. It might not be the case next season if we are looking at a near 2 million lss but as it stands we are just now. But for a better start we might have been able to kick on. I hope te boards gamble on Calderwood pays off because its a huge stake.

[IWasThere2016]

I think the point is even with the infrastructure costs we are spending more than anyone outside the Old Firm and the Gorgie basketcases. It might not be the case next season if we are looking at a near 2 million lss but as it stands we are just now. But for a better start we might have been able to kick on. I hope te boards gamble on Calderwood pays off because its a huge stake.

£2m would be like for like if income in 11/12 is on same level as 10/11 - I doubt it will be. So we'll have a loss getting on to 40% of turnover.

It would be interesting to know how much cash the holding co. has as further injection(s) will be needed is the losses are not stemmed pronto.

[Dirkster23]

Short-sighted was spending the last of the cash; assuming it would be readily replaced in a diminishing market. If it is to last 50 years why didn't we finance it over the longer-term and, in parallel, try to build the team/fan base?

It always amazes me that you'll spend weeks on here moaning about Hibs finances, but can't get off yer arse and drive for just over an hour and actually contribute something to the club :rolleyes: FFS, you were asking about buying shares so you could attend the AGM- you do realise that would mean a trip to Edinburgh:na na:

[Andy74]

Just over a year ago we were looking at an average attendance just short of Hearts and highest attendances that were bigger than them.

Now we are almost 5,000 behind and our biggest crowd doesn't break 13,000.

Cheers Colin.