With CC We Are Staring Into The Abyss

[smurf]

The trends and reality of our predicament can simply no longer be denied.

[Jim44]

....................... and meanwhile we have a thread sneering at and calling for the head of Lennon. Look no further than the turmoill at ER. Calderwood is not, never was and never will be the man to lead Hibs away from the foot of the table. How much more of this nightmare must we put up with?

[Paisley Hibby]

....................... and meanwhile we have a thread sneering at and calling for the head of Lennon. Look no further than the turmoill at ER. Calderwood is not, never was and never will be the man to lead Hibs away from the foot of the table. How much more of this nightmare must we put up with?

Spot on :agree:

[Cropley10]

....................... and meanwhile we have a thread sneering at and calling for the head of Lennon. Look no further than the turmoill at ER. Calderwood is not, never was and never will be the man to lead Hibs away from the foot of the table. How much more of this nightmare must we put up with?

Terrible, terrible stuff in the first half.

[MotherSuperior]

He got the starting lineup wrong today and as a result we posed no attacking threat whatsoever in the first half. We played much better in the second half, and i was well chuffed for wotherspoon putting in a quality performance in the middle of the park.

[blackpoolhibs]

He,s been hopeless from day 1, yet defeat after defeat I am told he needs more time? Just how much more time do you who keep saying this think ne needs?

[Northernhibee]

The board need to realise that every single empty seat in ER is another reason for change.

Has CC showed evidence of learning from a years worth of mistakes? Of course not.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Just look at the next two fixtures. We'll be bottom by end of this month.

I challenge anyone to defend Calderwood. The appointment of this guy has been an unmitigated disaster.

Time for him and elements of our apparent untouchable board to do the right thing for HIBERNIAN FC and leave imeediately.

[GlesgaeHibby]

We, along with Scottish football are staring into the abyss.

[lEXO]

He got the starting lineup wrong today and as a result we posed no attacking threat whatsoever in the first half. We played much better in the second half, and i was well chuffed for wotherspoon putting in a quality performance in the middle of the park.

Agree totally. We were bemused with the line up and asking why Towell was,nt at right back and Palsson not in midfield. Half time he changes it, why aren,t we starting like that?
And Spoony had a great second half, making good passes and playing people in. Must say Ivan did nothing of note again and has been a disappointment since he came back.

[Franck Stanton]

When CC first came I said he needed time to get his own players in, he did to a certain extent at the Jan window. Was hoping for better quality signings, especially defencively, but, this hasn.t materialised. This present group of men [ they aren't a team and certainly aren't players], are totaly inept at their chosen proffession. There is no passion,commitment,fight, basic talent, in fact anything positive on show, and hasn't been for past 12 months. They are incapable of doing even the basics correctly. Drop the lot of them, play the young lads, yes we will still get beat ,but at least they would go down fighting instead of like now, with a whimper. WORST team ever to wear the green, a total disgrace to the jersey.

[Franck Stanton]

When CC first came I said he needed time to get his own players in, he did to a certain extent at the Jan window. Was hoping for better quality signings, especially defencively, but, this hasn.t materialised. This present group of men [ they aren't a team and certainly aren't players], are totaly inept at their chosen proffession. There is no passion,commitment,fight, basic talent, in fact anything positive on show, and hasn't been for past 12 months. They are incapable of doing even the basics correctly. Drop the lot of them, play the young lads, yes we will still get beat ,but at least they would go down fighting instead of like now, with a whimper. WORST team ever to wear the green, a total disgrace to the jersey. :taxi for Calderwood, and he can take the present Board with him.

[silverhibee]

The trends and reality of our predicament can simply no longer be denied.


Wrong Smurf, wee are heading into a relagation battle with Calderwood, that was simply woeful stuff today, if not for Stack it could have been embarassing with the amount of chances Well had.

Time is up for CC, and the best of it is that he is getting an easy ride from the Hibs fans, wee were quick to hound out Mixu and Yogi but not a peep from the stands regarding CC.

Are the fans giving up on Hibs. ?

[blackpoolhibs]

Clueless has built a side devoid of creation, pace style and idea. We now have a back four I'd have a chance against in a race. A midfield that never look up, can see a pass or even get near a tackle. This team assembled by clueless are poor. We are in a relegation fight, make no mistake about that. Thank god he saved us last season, he should know what's required.

[Diclonius]

Can't be arsed with him any more, and I've supported him longer than just about anyone else on this board.

Our first half performance today was shameful.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Forget team selection or tactics, the reason we lost was because Motherwell wanted more. Pure and simple.

The simple facts are that we are a poor team with an even poorer manager. What we are seeing are bad decisions that have been made at every level of this football club manifesting itself onto the park on the saturday.

This team are miles away from a top 6 finish and under CC that gap is growing longer.

[Jim44]

Forget team selection or tactics, the reason we lost was because Motherwell wanted more. Pure and simple.

The simple facts are that we are a poor team with an even poorer manager. What we are seeing are bad decisions that have been made at every level of this football club manifesting itself onto the park on the saturday.

This team are miles away from a top 6 finish and under CC that gap is growing longer.


To mention Hibs and top six set me off into a nervous fit of the giggles. I will be delighted with a 'safe' bottom six finish.

[Beefster]

This particular poster is past the stage of saying that Calderwood needs the season. I'm fed up watching the fare we've been served since Collins left.

[Stewboy]

Left at half time today, no longer interested

Only other time I have left early is 3-1 against utd

Even the utter dross of the past 25 years I have been exited about going to ER

Petrie change it now or watch record low crowds next season

[SneakersO'Toole]

To mention Hibs and top six set me off into a nervous fit of the giggles. I will be delighted with a 'safe' bottom six finish.

At best another 'transitional' season to look forward to.

Us Hibs fans really are rewarded for our constant loyality and committment.

Where would we be without the custodians who give us such joy year after year?

[Stewboy]

Just look at the next two fixtures. We'll be bottom by end of this month.

I challenge anyone to defend Calderwood. The appointment of this guy has been an unmitigated disaster.

Time for him and elements of our apparent untouchable board to do the right thing for HIBERNIAN FC and leave imeediately.

St Mirren away next is it not? Sad state of affairs when we are condemning ourselves to defeat already

Sad day

[smurf]

Wrong Smurf, wee are heading into a relagation battle with Calderwood, that was simply woeful stuff today, if not for Stack it could have been embarassing with the amount of chances Well had.

Time is up for CC, and the best of it is that he is getting an easy ride from the Hibs fans, wee were quick to hound out Mixu and Yogi but not a peep from the stands regarding CC.

Are the fans giving up on Hibs. ?

THOUSANDS have already given up and I feel that this will be my last season ticket. My seven year old didn't want to go today and neither did my nephew. So it was both me and the bro in law and we sat watching that oh so typical these days 'performance' questioning the wisdom of our monthly DD payment.

We were comprehensively defeated today.

I didn't see any positives at all today.

The warning signs were all too obvious last year. Never mind though both Rod Petrie and CC tell us that he is a very good manager...

[BEEJ]

Are the fans giving up on Hibs. ?
I think that could be it. :agree:

This has been going on for so long now that mass apathy has set in. Any sense of belief that anyone with responsibility for the club can take the appropriate action to arrest this long-term slide is fast diminishing.

Yet clubs with much more limited resources than ours appear within a matter of months to be able to assemble decent sides and recruit management teams that prove themselves in time to be more than capable.

That'll be the Hibs FC AGM delayed for another week then. :rolleyes:

[Thecat23]

Enough is enough.. Folk who called us the doom and gloomers must now see he's not the right man. What a shocking first half that was. 2nd just a tad better. Billy Brown was trying big time to get players going CC just looked way out his depth. Him and Petrie must go. Look at the empty seats? It will get worse with him in charge. Some on here wanted him till Xmas then decide, but I'm telling you now that's to long. I'd like to hear what they think now, if they would still stick with him? If so why? Times up now it's a year and we're going backwards. At home to well and the well keeper could have taken the day off. Please just go.

[Jim44]

It's interesting but not surprising to note that despite this anti-Calderwood thread, nobody as far as I can see has leapt to his defence. Surely his time is up.:pray:

[Captain Trips]

He was given plenty of time he had 3/4 of last season and yes I know it was with players he was likely to get rid of but he showed nothing at all then, he is showing nothing now and I was right about this not working from last season, the board are a failure as is the manager the short term contracts are a disaster of a stratagy. They are driving fans away not bringing any in.

[nortonhibby]

Just look at the next two fixtures. We'll be bottom by end of this month.

I challenge anyone to defend Calderwood. The appointment of this guy has been an unmitigated disaster.

Time for him and elements of our apparent untouchable board to do the right thing for HIBERNIAN FC and leave imeediately.

Our problem is that the one man that counts RP Fully supports CC, the appointment of BB Has only prolonged our agony until someone else comes in with an offer for CC RP Will not let him go and he will refuse to pay up his contract the financial pain would be to great for RP to bear.

We can only try to give our support in the vain hope that CC Does come good BB Seems to be more passionate but between the 2 of them how tactically aware are they ? next 3 games are vital in our season.

[Jim44]

Our problem is that the one man that counts RP Fully supports CC, the appointment of BB Has only prolonged our agony until someone else comes in with an offer for CC RP Will not let him go and he will refuse to pay up his contract the financial pain would be to great for RP to bear.

We can only try to give our support in the vain hope that CC Does come good BB Seems to be more passionate but between the 2 of them how tactically aware are they ? next 3 games are vital in our season.

I can't see us getting any points from the next three games. I might have looked for a draw against Dunfermline but our ridiculous capitulation against them at East End Park will have given them confidence to see us off at Fortress Easter Road............................... make that Wendy House Easter Road.

[blackpoolhibs]

How many times have we said the next game is vital? What's vital is we get this clown out the door pronto, and get someone in who knows how to manage a football team.

[Golden Bear]

The man needs a couple of years to get his systems in place and to drive home the winning mentality that he instilled in every other club he's been involved with!.. Be patient!

:fishin::stirrer:

[Dashing Bob S]

The man needs a couple of years to get his systems in place and to drive home the winning mentality that he instilled in every other club he's been involved with!.. Be patient!

I think he will develop a winning mentality if he stays for two years - the problem is that it will be in Div One.

[steakbake]

The man needs a couple of years to get his systems in place and to drive home the winning mentality that he instilled in every other club he's been involved with!.. Be patient!

You are surely on a permo!

[marleyhib]

Walking out today my said why do I have to watch Hibs, his first season of having a season ticket - we are an effing joke.

As I left today I didn't really feel that much at getting beat, I just expected it. Today we were dire.

I just don't get why it takes up until the 75th minute for us to show any urgency or desire. Why does Calderwood insist on playing Palsson at right back? especially after he had such a mare against St Mirren. He's not a right back, he's basically ruining the guys confidence, his head was down after 10 minutes.

He can't motivate, he's tactically inept and he can't sort out our defence which is nothing short of shocking.

I'd rather we sack Calderwood now and put Billy Brown in charge than let him blunder on, he couldn't do any worse - we are going backwards rapidly.

FFS this is the SPL, it's not rocket science and it's obvious Calderwood aint got what it takes.

[blackpoolhibs]

The man needs a couple of years to get his systems in place and to drive home the winning mentality that he instilled in every other club he's been involved with!.. Be patient!

I know I'm just being a little hasty, after all he's promised us a cup and a top 4 finish. I need to listen to you more often. Lol.

[nortonhibby]

I can't see us getting any points from the next three games. I might have looked for a draw against Dunfermline but our ridiculous capitulation against them at East End Park will have given them confidence to see us off at Fortress Easter Road............................... make that Wendy House Easter Road.

We will beat Dunfermline if we dont we are deep deep in Do Do, we have the comfort that Inverness and Dunfermline are worse than us and it will be one of them that goes down, which will vindicate RP To keep CC For another season.
This crazy polocy to keep the faith , give more time bla bla bla is causing more empty seats every week The longer RP retains him our pain will go on.

[James70]

Motherwell fan said on Sportsound that his team were playing like Spain.

Jim Traynor's response - "It was only Hibs you were playing"

We are a laughing stock and everyone expects to win at Fortress Easter Road nowadays.

[SneakersO'Toole]

We will beat Dunfermline if we dont we are deep deep in Do Do, we have the comfort that Inverness and Dunfermline are worse than us and it will be one of them that goes down, which will vindicate RP To keep CC For another season.
This crazy polocy to keep the faith , give more time bla bla bla is causing more empty seats every week The longer RP retains him our pain will go on.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. I genuinely don't fancy our chances against ANYONE in this league.

[marleyhib]

Supermac you hit the nail on the head, a joke of a football team at the moment.

Oh and all the millions spent on our shiny new stadium has created a ground with no atmosphere and a piss poor team on the park.

[blackpoolhibs]

How anyone can say we will beat dunfermline and inverness in a relegation dog fight with any confidence is beyond me. Is like to think we would, but I wouldn't be putting money on it. We are a shambles of a football team.

[nortonhibby]

He now has 46 games in charge the exact same as Duff when he got canned, and the scary thing is there records are almost identical.
There was a frenzy to get Duff out, but CC All we here is give him time omens going forward are Duff lasted till January by then it was too late and we went down Time is now off the essence every week that goes by is a ticking timebomb with the Big R A possibility.
I Still think we can better Dunfermline and Inverness and avoid the drop but its hardly an inspiring thought that our season will be a good one if we avoid the drop.

TOP 4 AND A CUP HE PROMISED:confused:

[DaveF]

Never mind the dire performance, the ultimate piss take today was wearing that flucking terrible strip.

We were at HOME. We play in GREEN.

[greenlex]

He,s been hopeless from day 1, yet defeat after defeat I am told he needs more time? Just how much more time do you who keep saying this think ne needs?

Ifwe are cut adrift at bottom goinginto the next window he should go. If not re evaluate at the end of the season. As bad as the first half was the second was much much better. Thats a decent Motherwell outfit and therecwas little between us second half. Having said that we really need to be taking something from home games. Every defeat makes Calderwoods survival harder.

[greenlex]

How anyone can say we will beat dunfermline and inverness in a relegation dog fight with any confidence is beyond me. Is like to think we would, but I wouldn't be putting money on it. We are a shambles of a football team.

We are not a shambles. We played some decent stuff at times against a decent football team in the second half. Piss poor in the first. Fact

[blackpoolhibs]

Do you ever wonder about the people on here who have jobs and can dress themselves in the mornings and can catch buses, trains and planes,etc..etc...Some may even have children?.... And they think Calderwood is worth a ....?

there are a lot who are surprisingly quiet, especially some who were so vocal in their condemnation of the last man. Very strange eh???

[Hiber-nation]

Never mind the dire performance, the ultimate piss take today was wearing that flucking terrible strip.

We were at HOME. We play in GREEN.

:agree:

Might seem petty to some but to me that just stank.

[At The Edge]

Ifwe are cut adrift at bottom goinginto the next window he should go. If not re evaluate at the end of the season. As bad as the first half was the second was much much better. Thats a decent Motherwell outfit and therecwas little between us second half. Having said that we really need to be taking something from home games. Every defeat makes Calderwoods survival harder.

we couldn't really have got much worse in the first half, just coming out at the 2nd half was probably an improvment :wink:
Yes we played better in the 2nd half but motherwell still could have took us to the cleaners if it wasn't for Stack.
Basic football ability and the desire to play, a passion to grab the game by the nuts seems to be amiss from Hibs these days

[Jonnyboy]

The man needs a couple of years to get his systems in place and to drive home the winning mentality that he instilled in every other club he's been involved with!.. Be patient!

:troll:

[pacorosssco]

The trends and reality of our predicament can simply no longer be denied.

Quite simply yes. He isnt the man . Time to move on.

:taxi 4 cc

[greenlex]

we couldn't really have got much worse in the first half, just coming out at the 2nd half was probably an improvment :wink:
Yes we played better in the 2nd half but motherwell still could have took us to the cleaners if it wasn't for Stack.
Basic football ability and the desire to play, a passion to grab the game by the nuts seems to be amiss from Hibs these days

We were set up the same way as the previous two games that we played decent in. It should have been changed before half time IMO but I suppose getting it into half time just one goal down I would have taken that. A more mobile midfield with the ability and willing to run at them made a difference and getting Towell out of midfield also helped second half. In doing this we were always at risk from a pacey Well counter attack and that in essence was what their 2nd half chances were.
To ounter Stacks heroics if we had our finishing boots on we could have won that game and that looked extremely unlikely at Half time.

[Thecat23]

Ifwe are cut adrift at bottom goinginto the next window he should go. If not re evaluate at the end of the season. As bad as the first half was the second was much much better. Thats a decent Motherwell outfit and therecwas little between us second half. Having said that we really need to be taking something from home games. Every defeat makes Calderwoods survival harder.

Lex come on eh! Give him till the next transfer window? That leaves a new man hardly anytime to save us if we are bottom. Believe me that could be the case. There is a time when u need to admit your wrong and CC isn't the man. Defending him is becoming embarrassing. No one wants a manager to fail but his record is truly honking. He should be sacked and if you think the 2nd half was better that's because we were so bad in the first. Hibs under CC are shocking time to move on and find the right man.

[Disc O'Dave]

Never mind the dire performance, the ultimate piss take today was wearing that flucking terrible strip.

We were at HOME. We play in GREEN.

Spot on Sir,

The same goes for Motherwell, it at no point even felt like a Hibs game, when you are watching the team in mauve at home to the team in silver (with a hint of lilac), when teams drop their heritage for no reason than to satisfy kit manufactureres and marketing, it's no wonder the passion is dissipating.....and I don't think they'll shift many anyway now that it'll be associated with that performance.....

[steakbake]

We are not a shambles. We played some decent stuff at times against a decent football team in the second half. Piss poor in the first. Fact

Someone should tell Calderwood that a football match unfortunately has two halves. If you don't turn up in both and your opponents do, don't go looking for sympathy and understanding from the mugs who pay good money to watch.

As for decent: there were shades of the game where we matched them. But let's not pretend that a terrible first half performance with moments of a slightly better second half is acceptable. We lost today against a team who really have no outstandingly better players than we do, who play for a club run on less money than ours. Hibs are a soft team, poorly organized and easily beaten.

The players must take their share of the blame, but our weakness as a club starts in the boardroom and who they have installed in the manager's dugout season after season.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

If CC is tasked with the root and branch review and fix then he got his priorities wrong
Maybe he needed a decent number 2 and only found one now but things have slipped too far in the 1st team performances.

Times up.

Another fine mess Hibs get themselves into why must every season play out like an extended espisode of "now get out of that!" ?

[Hainan Hibs]

This is the Duffy era all over again. Have we not learnt our lessons?

Give the new man enough time to save us. Inverness are not as bad as Hamilton were last season and St Mirren are not the side they were last season so we do not have that protection this season.

At least under previous managers we were angry. Now we are past caring to waste time being angry. That should be the most worrying aspect for the club.

[greenlex]

Lex come on eh! Give him till the next transfer window? That leaves a new man hardly anytime to save us if we are bottom. Believe me that could be the case. There is a time when u need to admit your wrong and CC isn't the man. Defending him is becoming embarrassing. No one wants a manager to fail but his record is truly honking. He should be sacked and if you think the 2nd half was better that's because we were so bad in the first. Hibs under CC are shocking time to move on and find the right man.

I said months ago the next window and I am sticking by that. Since he has had his team on the park and they have had a bit of time together there has been improvement. We will not be relegated. Today We were beaten by a decent side sitting in second pace in the league on merit. The second half performance was acceptable after the first half.

For the avoidance of any doubt I am not defending Calderwood and time will tell but I do think he should be given mre time.

[Alfred E Newman]

I said months ago the next window and I am sticking by that. Since he has had his team on the park and they have had a bit of time together there has been improvement. We will not be relegated. Today We were beaten by a decent side sitting in second pace in the league on merit. The second half performance was acceptable after the first half.

For the avoidance of any doubt I am not defending Calderwood and time will tell but I do think he should be given mre time.

The next window is too late. He has had two windows already and we are no better now than when he took over, in fact he has acheived the impossible and made us worse.

[Thecat23]

I said months ago the next window and I am sticking by that. Since he has had his team on the park and they have had a bit of time together there has been improvement. We will not be relegated. Today We were beaten by a decent side sitting in second pace in the league on merit. The second half performance was acceptable after the first half.

For the avoidance of any doubt I am not defending Calderwood and time will tell but I do think he should be given mre time.

Motherwell were better because we stood around and let them play. We didn't shut them down. I respect your opinion but I don't think you are right. He should go now. That 2nd half was still poor. I noticed you said if we had our shouting boots on we could have won!! We had about 3 chances and they had about 8. Hit the bar and post, Stack saved us god knows how many times. So if Motherwell had their shooting boots on we would have been skelped. Your sure we won't be bottom and you may well be right, but why settle for 2nd bottom or third bottom until then? Get rid its been a full year and he's brought nothing to Hibs. Crowds don't lie.

[Tricla]

We were set up the same way as the previous two games that we played decent in. It should have been changed before half time IMO but I suppose getting it into half time just one goal down I would have taken that. A more mobile midfield with the ability and willing to run at them made a difference and getting Towell out of midfield also helped second half. In doing this we were always at risk from a pacey Well counter attack and that in essence was what their 2nd half chances were.
To ounter Stacks heroics if we had our finishing boots on we could have won that game and that looked extremely unlikely at Half time.

A sensible post in an 'abyss' of negative p*sh IMO.

[Arch Stanton]

there are a lot who are surprisingly quiet, especially some who were so vocal in their condemnation of the last man. Very strange eh???

Hughes was an idiot

He still is an idiot.

CC was a competent manager.

He still is a competent manager.

Very frustrating today, but we came a close second to a very decent team.

We are no longer also-rans in the majority of our SPL games - this is a step forward!

Get onboard!

[Tricla]

Spot on Sir,

The same goes for Motherwell, it at no point even felt like a Hibs game, when you are watching the team in mauve at home to the team in silver (with a hint of lilac), when teams drop their heritage for no reason than to satisfy kit manufactureres and marketing, it's no wonder the passion is dissipating.....and I don't think they'll shift many anyway now that it'll be associated with that performance.....

Exactly. That's why the SPL is keech. :rolleyes:

[MotherSuperior]

Never mind the dire performance, the ultimate piss take today was wearing that flucking terrible strip.

We were at HOME. We play in GREEN.

Agree 100%

[justlikebrazil]

Quite simply yes. He isnt the man . Time to move on.

:taxi 4 cc

Calderwood won't be going anywhere while Yogi is still on the payroll!!! Come on Yogi get a job and we may get rid of blunderwood :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Hughes was an idiot

He still is an idiot.

CC was a competent manager.

He still is a competent manager.

Very frustrating today, but we came a close second to a very decent team.

We are no longer also-rans in the majority of our SPL games - this is a step forward!

Get onboard!

Close hahaha, how competent is he again???

[tamig]

We were set up the same way as the previous two games that we played decent in. It should have been changed before half time IMO but I suppose getting it into half time just one goal down I would have taken that. A more mobile midfield with the ability and willing to run at them made a difference and getting Towell out of midfield also helped second half. In doing this we were always at risk from a pacey Well counter attack and that in essence was what their 2nd half chances were.
To ounter Stacks heroics if we had our finishing boots on we could have won that game and that looked extremely unlikely at Half time.

Couldn't agree more. The starting line up didn't work today - but as you rightly point out it was the same set up as the last couple of games. The key change against St J was switching Towell and Palsson. Today it didn't work in the first half. And we have loads on this thread moaning about that!

Second half was much better but we did leave ourselves exposed a bit when chasing the game.

I'm with you on this one - despite what all the doom and gloomers are spouting on here.

[Northernhibee]

A sensible post in an 'abyss' of negative p*sh IMO.

You don't get points for 'potentially' winning games.

CC doesn't bring in enough points for us to guarantee SPL survival.

For ****s sakes, WE ARE HIBERNIAN FOOTBALL CLUB.

We should not be in relegation battles, potential points on the board or not.

[silverhibee]

We were set up the same way as the previous two games that we played decent in. It should have been changed before half time IMO but I suppose getting it into half time just one goal down I would have taken that. A more mobile midfield with the ability and willing to run at them made a difference and getting Towell out of midfield also helped second half. In doing this we were always at risk from a pacey Well counter attack and that in essence was what their 2nd half chances were.
To ounter Stacks heroics if we had our finishing boots on we could have won that game and that looked extremely unlikely at Half time.


No chance wee were ever going to win that match Lex, if Motherwell had taken there chances it could have been a rugby score, apart from Stack saving us today they also hit the bar and post and also had good chances that they never took, the closest wee came to getting a goal was from Agogo who's shot went wide of the post, apart from that wee never troubled the Well goalie.

[Gala Foxes]

0-4 or 0-5 would not have been unfair results given the number of chances Motherwell created today

[invers]

Wrong Smurf, wee are heading into a relagation battle with Calderwood, that was simply woeful stuff today, if not for Stack it could have been embarassing with the amount of chances Well had.

Time is up for CC, and the best of it is that he is getting an easy ride from the Hibs fans, wee were quick to hound out Mixu and Yogi but not a peep from the stands regarding CC.

Are the fans giving up on Hibs. ?
CC will not resign, He is waiting to be sacked, This he won't do, Hibs can't afford to pay the fee to let him go
They can't even afford to pay for the postage for 20 Disabled Supporters Association membership cards to be sent out
How long before we ARE looking at 1st Division Football season 2012/2013
Although it is still early doors BB is making tracks CC is watching us go in reverse


Cmon Hibs Please Please

[IWasThere2016]

The next window is too late. He has had two windows already and we are no better now than when he took over, in fact he has acheived the impossible and made us worse.

There are comparisons being made with Duff Jimmy but CC inherited a bigger mess from the previous incumbent than any other manager I can recall. I would therefore dispute we are worse also - were you at St Johnstone 5-1 or Accies 4-1?

That said, where we are is unaccpetable - and ANY manager in the SPL MUST win their home games - because the revenue is critical.

As others have said however the Board/owners need to have a good hard look at their role in our demise in recent years - we have regressed alarmingly since 2007, and those accountable have to go IMHO.

The Board are handsomely remunerated for running a small/medium sized business, and it is failing. It no longer has an attractive product, diminishing customer loyalty/market share, poor I&E performance, poor cash levels. The only plus is a strong balance sheet (save for the cash) achieived by neglecting its core business - the football team.

If CC goes - he goes - I won't lament him.

The club is bigger than anyone one - but that has to include the Board also. Time for change therein is long overdue.

[greenlex]

No chance wee were ever going to win that match Lex, if Motherwell had taken there chances it could have been a rugby score, apart from Stack saving us today they also hit the bar and post and also had good chances that they never took, the closest wee came to getting a goal was from Agogo who's shot went wide of the post, apart from that wee never troubled the Well goalie.

We created several chances that didnt trouble the Well keeper. Thats why I said if we had had our shooting boots on we could have won. :confused:

[Nuitdelune]

It's horrid being poo for so long is my learned opinion. Too tired by it to analyse it.

[blackpoolhibs]

No chance wee were ever going to win that match Lex, if Motherwell had taken there chances it could have been a rugby score, apart from Stack saving us today they also hit the bar and post and also had good chances that they never took, the closest wee came to getting a goal was from Agogo who's shot went wide of the post, apartu from that wee never troubled the Well goalie.

Exactly, some folk must watch a different game to me? We were stuffed 1-0 points are a rare thing around Easter road, and its becoming the norm. Worried, anyone else??

[greenlex]

Exactly, some folk must watch a different game to me? We were stuffed 2-0 points are a rare thing around Easter road, and its becoming the norm. Worried, anyone else??

You are definately watching a different game. The oneI was at we got "stuffed" 1-0. Agree about rare points though.:wink:

[Alfred E Newman]

We created several chances that didnt trouble the Well keeper. Thats why I said if we had had our shooting boots on we could have won. :confused:

Thats like Leveins ludicrous quote on Wed. saying that Scotland could have scored 4 goals and at the same time conveniently forgeting to mention the fact that Spain could have scored 15. But for a combination of good goalkeeping and poor finishing Motherwell could have been 4 up at half time.

[Arch Stanton]

Close hahaha, how competent is he again???

You'd think that discussions between fellow Hibs' supporters would be intelligent and enlightening.

I always assumed that the Hibee Nation would be above petty point-scoring and gainsaying, but I'm beginning to realise that matching HOMC is an aspiration for us, both on and off the football field.

[Hiber-nation]

We created several chances that didnt trouble the Well keeper. Thats why I said if we had had our shooting boots on we could have won. :confused:

Yep, maybe by 1 goal and if they had theirs on they could have humped us 4 or 5. Suppose that's fitba.

[nortonhibby]

You are definately watching a different game. The oneI was at we got "stuffed" 1-0. Agree about rare points though.:wink:

Spec savers mate you need to go to:confused:

[IWasThere2016]

Hughes was an idiot

He still is an idiot.

CC was a competent manager.

He still is a competent manager.

Very frustrating today, but we came a close second to a very decent team.

We are no longer also-rans in the majority of our SPL games - this is a step forward!

Get onboard!

I agree BUT it is a results game. We need wins. We especially need home wins.

If they don't materialise the mess just gets worse.

Would anyone really want RP involved in the process of selecting a new manager ever again???

[greenlex]

Thats like Leveins ludicrous quote on Wed. saying that Scotland could have scored 4 goals and at the same time conveniently forgeting to mention the fact that Spain could have scored 15. But for a combination of good goalkeeping and poor finishing Motherwell could have been 4 up at half time.
It nothing like that.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It's horrid being poo for so long is my learned opinion. Too tired by it to analyse it.

Nooooooo!
That Gillian mckeith isn't coming in to analyse our performances is she ;)

[greenlex]

Spec savers mate you need to go to:confused:

WTF are you slavering about this week? There is nothing in that post that is not factual!!! Specsavers:rolleyes:

[HFC 0-7]

Hughes was an idiot

He still is an idiot.

CC was a competent manager.

He still is a competent manager.

Very frustrating today, but we came a close second to a very decent team.

We are no longer also-rans in the majority of our SPL games - this is a step forward!

Get onboard!

Its a sad state of affairs when we see positives from being second best to a team like Motherwell. We were honking in the first half, all over the place and didnt look threatening. The second half was an improvement but again a sad state of affairs when we look at a second half improvement but still had a keeper to thank for a good few saves to keep us in it at all. Improving on the first half was not exactly hard as we were so bad in the first.

We started the game with the wrong team, far to cautious but when we changed it we still fell well short. Well hacked off now that normal service seems to have resumed under calderwood.

[Andy74]

Hughes was an idiot

He still is an idiot.

CC was a competent manager.

He still is a competent manager.

Very frustrating today, but we came a close second to a very decent team.

We are no longer also-rans in the majority of our SPL games - this is a step forward!

Get onboard!

Deary dear.

[Arch Stanton]

I agree BUT it is a results game. We need wins. We especially need home wins.

If they don't materialise the mess just gets worse.

Would anyone really want RP involved in the process of selecting a new manager ever again???

RP's successor might just replace CC with McCall, a successful Motherwell manager, but the last successful Motherwell manager RP recruited wasn't so great for us, as I recall. (i.e. Big Eck).

[Arch Stanton]

Its a sad state of affairs when we see positives from being second best to a team like Motherwell. We were honking in the first half, all over the place and didnt look threatening. The second half was an improvement but again a sad state of affairs when we look at a second half improvement but still had a keeper to thank for a good few saves to keep us in it at all. Improving on the first half was not exactly hard as we were so bad in the first.

We started the game with the wrong team, far to cautious but when we changed it we still fell well short. Well hacked off now that normal service seems to have resumed under calderwood.

It is annoying when a smaller team does better than us in the league!

However, when was the last time that didn't happen??

[HFC 0-7]

RP's successor might just replace CC with McCall, a successful Motherwell manager, but the last successful Motherwell manager RP recruited wasn't so great for us, as I recall. (i.e. Big Eck).

You on the wind up?

[Tricla]

You'd think that discussions between fellow Hibs' supporters would be intelligent and enlightening.

I always assumed that the Hibee Nation would be above petty point-scoring and gainsaying, but I'm beginning to realise that matching HOMC is an aspiration for us, both on and off the football field.

I was at ER today for the 1st time this season since the Celtc game and I can't say I miss it at all.

Nowt to do with the quality of football mind you.

I gave my ST up 3 years ago for financial reasons and used to crave the fortnightly fix.

Not now though. The only 'fans' left at ER these days make it unbearable with their misguided take on what supporting your team is.

Personal abuse and booing is the norm.

I wish these people would piss off somewhere else on a Saturday.

[Arch Stanton]

You on the wind up?

If you explain why you think I am it would help me replY.

[blackpoolhibs]

You are definately watching a different game. The oneI was at we got "stuffed" 1-0. Agree about rare points though.:wink:

Fat fingers lol.

[Arch Stanton]

I was at ER today for the 1st time this season since the Celtc game and I can't say I miss it at all.

Nowt to do with the quality of football mind you.

I gave my ST up 3 years ago for financial reasons and used to crave the fortnightly fix.

Not now though. The only 'fans' left at ER these days make it unbearable with their misguided take on what supporting your team is.

Personal abuse and booing is the norm.

I wish these people would piss off somewhere else on a Saturday.

They always are there though - they just pipe up louder when Hibs do badly.

My only hope is that Hibs doing badly saves their family's from getting an earful of dog's abuse.

[greenlex]

Fat fingers lol.

:greengrin open goal G

[Andy74]

I was at ER today for the 1st time this season since the Celtc game and I can't say I miss it at all.

Nowt to do with the quality of football mind you.

I gave my ST up 3 years ago for financial reasons and used to crave the fortnightly fix.

Not now though. The only 'fans' left at ER these days make it unbearable with their misguided take on what supporting your team is.

Personal abuse and booing is the norm.

I wish these people would piss off somewhere else on a Saturday.

They are still there though and when you've seen one league win in seven months it's tricky to be that supportive when the team don't seem to give a toss.

[Hibbyradge]

RP's successor might just replace CC with McCall, a successful Motherwell manager, but the last successful Motherwell manager RP recruited wasn't so great for us, as I recall. (i.e. Big Eck).

McLeish wasn't a success? Seriously?

[Gala Foxes]

Scariest thing is that we could'nt score against a goalkeeper that is coached by Gordon Marshall !!!!

[IWasThere2016]

They are still there though and when you've seen one league win in seven months it's tricky to be that supportive when the team don't seem to give a toss.

You were supportive enough of the previous incumbent and his worst ever record however ..

[Tricla]

They always are there though - they just pipe up louder when Hibs do badly.

My only hope is that Hibs doing badly saves their family's from getting an earful of dog's abuse.

I felt like smacking supposed fellow hibbys today.

I've never felt like that before.

So many new twats have emerged.

Noone forgets the offield problems and cheers the team anymore.

Apart from S43 of course! Well done lads & lassies.

ER would be completely unbearable without you.

[Thecat23]

I was at ER today for the 1st time this season since the Celtc game and I can't say I miss it at all.

Nowt to do with the quality of football mind you.

I gave my ST up 3 years ago for financial reasons and used to crave the fortnightly fix.

Not now though. The only 'fans' left at ER these days make it unbearable with their misguided take on what supporting your team is.

Personal abuse and booing is the norm.

I wish these people would piss off somewhere else on a Saturday.

Mate I'll tell you something now. I didn't boo one player on the park but I booed till I was blue in the face at CC. So for that you want me to piss off aye? Best you stay away then if that offends you. Did you stand and clap like an excited school boy at our defeat?

[whiskyhibby]

I felt like smacking supposed fellow hibbys today.

I've never felt like that before.

So many new twats have emerged.

Noone forgets the offield problems and cheers the team anymore.

Apart from S43 of course! Well done lads & lassies.

ER would be completely unbearable without you.

Well said, however CC has to turn it around soon as his record is poor overall, wait until January I reckon............

[matty_f]

Its a sad state of affairs when we see positives from being second best to a team like Motherwell. We were honking in the first half, all over the place and didnt look threatening. The second half was an improvement but again a sad state of affairs when we look at a second half improvement but still had a keeper to thank for a good few saves to keep us in it at all. Improving on the first half was not exactly hard as we were so bad in the first.

We started the game with the wrong team, far to cautious but when we changed it we still fell well short. Well hacked off now that normal service seems to have resumed under calderwood.

:agree: Folks' expectations are well below where they should be if we're taking consolation from being second best (out of two) to Motherwell, FFS.

We chased shadows in that first half. Terrible.

[Tricla]

So for that you want me to piss off aye?

Yip.


Best you stay away then if that offends you.

It doesn't. It's just counter productive IMO and makes the atmosphere negative.


Did you stand and clap like an excited school boy at our defeat?

No. I was disappointed without booing. Went for a pint. Got the train home and had fajitas. Now I'm reluctantly watching X-Factor.

[HFC 0-7]

If you explain why you think I am it would help me replY.

You think McLeish wasnt a success?

If so why?

[Arch Stanton]

McLeish wasn't a success? Seriously?

As regards his spell at Hibs he took us (an albeitly crap team) into the first division whereas CC saved an equally crap team from the same fate.

Also, McLeish had a bigger and more expensive squad to work with.

I guess success is relative.

[Thecat23]

Yip.



It doesn't. It's just counter productive IMO and makes the atmosphere negative.



No. I was disappointed without booing. Went for a pint. Got the train home and had fajitas. Now I'm reluctantly watching X-Factor.

Sorry I will be booing CC each time we play that way, which will prob be most weeks. I'm a season ticket holder I've paid enough to vent my anger anyway I feel neceserry.

[HFC 0-7]

As regards his spell at Hibs he took us (an albeitly crap team) into the first division whereas CC saved an equally crap team from the same fate.

Also, McLeish had a bigger and more expensive squad to work with.

I guess success is relative.

Yeah Mcleish is mince, your right. It was a downward spiral for his career after Hibs. If only he had done a bit better at hibs teams like Rangers, Birmingham and Aston Villa might have snapped him up.

[Jonnyboy]

I said months ago the next window and I am sticking by that. Since he has had his team on the park and they have had a bit of time together there has been improvement. We will not be relegated. Today We were beaten by a decent side sitting in second pace in the league on merit. The second half performance was acceptable after the first half.

For the avoidance of any doubt I am not defending Calderwood and time will tell but I do think he should be given mre time.

A - his signings to date have largely been poor. If he gets another window and repeats that trick the new guy would be stuck with even more dross.

[The Harp]

Motherwell fan said on Sportsound that his team were playing like Spain.

Jim Traynor's response - "It was only Hibs you were playing"

We are a laughing stock and everyone expects to win at Fortress Easter Road nowadays.

I heard Tom English on Your Call. He was saying to Jim Traynor that he couldn't believe Hibs haven't been in for Michael O'Neil already because he doesn't think Calderwood is a good manager.

[Hainan Hibs]

As regards his spell at Hibs he took us (an albeitly crap team) into the first division whereas CC saved an equally crap team from the same fate.



:faf: Could not script pish like this :faf:

[Jonnyboy]

How about not feeding the benign,redundant civil servant nobody that spews out a sugar sweet aspect of our current state of play?

And who might that be?

[Thecat23]

As regards his spell at Hibs he took us (an albeitly crap team) into the first division whereas CC saved an equally crap team from the same fate.

Also, McLeish had a bigger and more expensive squad to work with.

I guess success is relative.


Mate behave.. He took over with next to no time to change it yet nearly did. He brought us right back up with a record amount of points, we got into Europe a cup final and smashed the yams 6-2. But yeah that just wasn't really that big a deal!!!

[Nuitdelune]

Nooooooo!
That Gillian mckeith isn't coming in to analyse our performances is she ;)

Noooo, I am not her, just depress-ed

[Kaiser1962]

McLeish wasn't a success? Seriously?


You think McLeish wasnt a success?

If so why?

McLeish could be regarded as successful due to our league position and Cup final appearance. This was achieved, however, with the biggest budget available to a Hibs manager in modern times. By spending big on class players like Sauzee and Zittelli McLeish always planned to cut the visiting fans allocations and house them in a small section of the old main stand (the south), and having Hibs fans filling the three sides as well as 2/3 of the Main Stand. Unfortunately the increased gates McLeish planned on didnt happen.

[nortonhibby]

A - his signings to date have largely been poor. If he gets another window and repeats that trick the new guy would be stuck with even more dross.

Worse than what yogi left ? is that possible ? many questions but you are the wise one what is the answer wise prophet.

As the Clash song goes SHOULD HE STAY OR SHOULD HE GO NOW ?

Wise answers please perhaps your book has the answer:flag:

[Arch Stanton]

A - his signings to date have largely been poor. If he gets another window and repeats that trick the new guy would be stuck with even more dross.


The new guy will surely inherit a much smaller squad won't he? And since most of CC's signing are short term the next incumbent won't be stuck with them, will he?

You're not really addressing the whole picture, are you?

[Jonnyboy]

Worse than what yogi left ? is that possible ? many questions but you are the wise one what is the answer wise prophet.

As the Clash song goes SHOULD HE STAY OR SHOULD HE GO NOW ?

Wise answers please perhaps your book has the answer:flag:

Jeezo hark at her. The team now is no better than when Hughes left and yet it's occupied by many CC signings. You don't need a 'book' to understand that do you?


The new guy will surely inherit a much smaller squad won't he? And since most of CC's signing are short term the next incumbent won't be stuck with them, will he?

You're not really addressing the whole picture, are you?

The picture I was addressing was the thought that if CC gets until the next window to turn things around there is no guarantee that he won't sign more short term deal duds. I'd rather a new manager be given the chance to sign players in the upcoming window. Is that a big enough picture for you?

[HFC 0-7]

McLeish could be regarded as successful due to our league position and Cup final appearance. This was achieved, however, with the biggest budget available to a Hibs manager in modern times. By spending big on class players like Sauzee and Zittelli McLeish always planned to cut the visiting fans allocations and house them in a small section of the old main stand (the south), and having Hibs fans filling the three sides as well as 2/3 of the Main Stand. Unfortunately the increased gates McLeish planned on didnt happen.

Unbelievable that people question McLeish as being a success at Hibs. Yes he had a big budget but I would bet that budgets overall back then were bigger than they are now. We had a team that the fans loved to watch, a team that opposition feared, players that fans still talk about now, a team that hammered Hearts 6-2. I suppose teams like Barcelona arent successful as they spend lots of money?

You seem like such a happy clapper that you will even pick holes in a successful managers reign at hibs to lessen how bad the current manager is.

[greenlex]

A - his signings to date have largely been poor. If he gets another window and repeats that trick the new guy would be stuck with even more dross.

O'Hanlon aside I disagree. I dont think thevsquad is littered with dross. Osbourne Agogo are quality. The jury is out on Palsson(maube playing him regularly in midfield would help) and Thornhill who I dontthink has ever been injury free. The others all smack of Calderwood being advised by others O'Connor Sproule and possibly Griffiths courtesy of the board as crowd pleasers. Scott by recommendation of Adams all of which can do a job for Hibs. I wouldnt be scared of another window or three if he progresses the sqaud like he has since te close of the last window. We do however need results and pronto.

[HFC 0-7]

The new guy will surely inherit a much smaller squad won't he? And since most of CC's signing are short term the next incumbent won't be stuck with them, will he?

You're not really addressing the whole picture, are you?

Apparently the reason why we are not playing well is because we werent ready for the new season as we hadnt brought all the players in and didnt have enough time to gel. Will this just be the same every season? Replace all the players that have left, but after the season has started and not have enough time to 'gel'?

[Arch Stanton]

The picture I was addressing was the thought that if CC gets until the next window to turn things around there is no guarantee that he won't sign more short term deal duds. I'd rather a new manager be given the chance to sign players in the upcoming window. Is that a big enough picture for you?

That's a big picture right enough. Lets get a manager who will sign great players for next to nothing.

I never realised it was that easy to be honest. :agree:

[Jonnyboy]

O'Hanlon aside I disagree. I dont think thevsquad is littered with dross. Osbourne Agogo are quality. The jury is out on Palsson(maube playing him regularly in midfield would help) and Thornhill who I dontthink has ever been injury free. The others all smack of Calderwood being advised by others O'Connor Sproule and possibly Griffiths courtesy of the board as crowd pleasers. Scott by recommendation of Adams all of which can do a job for Hibs. I wouldnt be scared of another window or three if he progresses the sqaud like he has since te close of the last window. We do however need results and pronto.

We'll have to agree to disagree A. Osbourne has shown just a few flashes of decent football but most of the time does very little constructive. Agogo started badly, had a couple of decent games and then faded again. Neither of those players are inspiring. Thornhill may still come good as may Palsson. O'Hanlon is a dud

[ronaldo7]

Scariest thing is that we could'nt score against a goalkeeper that is coached by Gordon Marshall !!!!

We'd need to get a shot on target first though.:wink:

[Jonnyboy]

That's a big picture right enough. Lets get a manager who will sign great players for next to nothing.

I never realised it was that easy to be honest. :agree:

Your sarcasm is pretty impressive :wink:

I didn't say the new manager would sign better players for next to nothing did I?

[HFC 0-7]

That's a big picture right enough. Lets get a manager who will sign great players for next to nothing.

I never realised it was that easy to be honest. :agree:

Well either we are signing great players for next to nothing but they arent playing well, or we are signing mince for next to nothing but just about every other club in the SPL are signing quality players for next to nothing.

[Jonnyboy]

Apparently the reason why we are not playing well is because we werent ready for the new season as we hadnt brought all the players in and didnt have enough time to gel. Will this just be the same every season? Replace all the players that have left, but after the season has started and not have enough time to 'gel'?

The 'gel' thing is a myth though isn't it? Just about every team we've played this season had new players in their side and appear to have gelled enough to be better than us :greengrin

[KeithTheHibby]

THOUSANDS have already given up and I feel that this will be my last season ticket. My seven year old didn't want to go today and neither did my nephew. So it was both me and the bro in law and we sat watching that oh so typical these days 'performance' questioning the wisdom of our monthly DD payment.

We were comprehensively defeated today.

I didn't see any positives at all today.

The warning signs were all too obvious last year. Never mind though both Rod Petrie and CC tell us that he is a very good manager...


You have hit the nail firmly on the head Smurf.

A season ticket for me and my 2 kids will cost me £550 by the time payments stop early next year. I also travel in from Livi each home game so it's a full afternoon out for us. I don't enjoy it, the kids certainly don't and this season already feels a write off and we are only 11 games in.
Once the weather gets worse I will seriously question going to the games however on the other hand it will annoy the **** out of me knowing that I am paying Hibs yet considering not attending so will probably carry on going.

Next year will feel like payback and as things stand the £550 will be staying firmly in my bank. Unless of course things change over the next few months which looks unlikely.

[HFC 0-7]

The 'gel' thing is a myth though isn't it? Just about every team we've played this season had new players in their side and appear to have gelled enough to be better than us :greengrin

Absolutely! Gelling is when the team is getting to know each others moves. Waiting for a team to gel isnt waiting for a team to suddenly become interested and showing passion to win and its certainly not waiting for some rubbish players with no ability to suddenly become good players.

[Kaiser1962]

Unbelievable that people question McLeish as being a success at Hibs. Yes he had a big budget but I would bet that budgets overall back then were bigger than they are now. We had a team that the fans loved to watch, a team that opposition feared, players that fans still talk about now, a team that hammered Hearts 6-2. I suppose teams like Barcelona arent successful as they spend lots of money?

You seem like such a happy clapper that you will even pick holes in a successful managers reign at hibs to lessen how bad the current manager is.

You're being selective with what I said.

I said I regard McLeish as a successful Hibs manager but did point out that he had a decent budget, superior to Aberdeens and not far behind that of Hearts. Nowadays our budget is, more often than not, less than Aberdeen's and about half that of Hearts.

As you say "we had a team fans loved to watch" but, unfortunately, not enough wanted to pay to do so and that particular wages model was therefore unsustainable.

[nortonhibby]

You have hit the nail firmly on the head Smurf.

A season ticket for me and my 2 kids will cost me £550 by the time payments stop early next year. I also travel in from Livi each home game so it's a full afternoon out for us. I don't enjoy it, the kids certainly don't and this season already feels a write off and we are only 11 games in.
Once the weather gets worse I will seriously question going to the games however on the other hand it will annoy the **** out of me knowing that I am paying Hibs yet considering not attending so will probably carry on going.

Next year will feel like payback and as things stand the £550 will be staying firmly in my bank. Unless of course things change over the next few months which looks unlikely.

RP Holds the purse prices will rise next season make no doubt about it, the wise man would reduce prices:flag: but RP:confused::confused:

[The Green Goblin]

I was at ER today for the 1st time this season since the Celtc game and I can't say I miss it at all. Nowt to do with the quality of football mind you. I gave my ST up 3 years ago for financial reasons and used to crave the fortnightly fix. Not now though. The only 'fans' left at ER these days make it unbearable with their misguided take on what supporting your team is. Personal abuse and booing is the norm. I wish these people would piss off somewhere else on a Saturday.


From what I hear, that wish is being granted more and more with each passing week and you'll soon have the whole stadium to yourself to enjoy watching us get humped and think it's nothing to worry about.

GG

[Captain Trips]

Hughes was an idiot

He still is an idiot.

CC was a competent manager.

He still is a competent manager.

Very frustrating today, but we came a close second to a very decent team.

We are no longer also-rans in the majority of our SPL games - this is a step forward!

Get onboard!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/table/default.stm

Onboard? I think it is time folk got off then and let othwers drive eh?, that table at this juncture is nothing short of a disgrace and failure at multiple levels at the club. No amount of discussing changes the fact of that table and last years, total joke.

[KeithTheHibby]

Hughes was an idiot

He still is an idiot.

CC was a competent manager.

He still is a competent manager.

Very frustrating today, but we came a close second to a very decent team.

We are no longer also-rans in the majority of our SPL games - this is a step forward!

Get onboard!


Uber optimistic. And perhaps deluded.

[Arch Stanton]

The 'gel' thing is a myth though isn't it? Just about every team we've played this season had new players in their side and appear to have gelled enough to be better than us :greengrin

The' gel' thing is only a myth if you prove it is a myth and not just make a smug allusion that it might be.

I would ask you though, the Old Firm have often been said to be blessed by a bigger squad which lasted better throughout the season - is this a myth also? Or maybe you prefer to make snap judgements?

[HFC 0-7]

You're being selective with what I said.

I said I regard McLeish as a successful Hibs manager but did point out that he had a decent budget, superior to Aberdeens and not far behind that of Hearts. Nowadays our budget is, more often than not, less than Aberdeen's and about half that of Hearts.

As you say "we had a team fans loved to watch" but, unfortunately, not enough wanted to pay to do so and that particular wages model was therefore unsustainable.

I am not being selective. You said " McLeish COULD be regarded as a success because of his league placings and players that he brought in" then basically said it was because of his budget. My point is that this thread is talking about how bad our current manager but you seem to not want to talk about that but pick holes in previous successful managers.

At no point did you say YOU regard him as a success, you preferred to talk about how not enough fans attended compared to his plans and again you have spent most of your post saying he was basically only any good because he had money to spend. He had a budget that was high? yes he did but finished high up the league. Calderwoods budget isnt as big but will be bigger than Motherwells, St Johnstone, St Mirren and Kilmarnocks.

Mcleish with his 4th biggest budget in the SPL finished higher than 4th. Calderwood with his 4th biggest budget is 10th bottom. Who is more successful!

[Hiber-nation]

The' gel' thing is only a myth if you prove it is a myth and not just make a smug allusion that it might be.

I would ask you though, the Old Firm have often been said to be blessed by a bigger squad which lasted better throughout the season - is this a myth also? Or maybe you prefer to make snap judgements?

You talk about snap judgements but have you mulled over CC's record since joining Hibs?

[Jonnyboy]

The' gel' thing is only a myth if you prove it is a myth and not just make a smug allusion that it might be.

I would ask you though, the Old Firm have often been said to be blessed by a bigger squad which lasted better throughout the season - is this a myth also? Or maybe you prefer to make snap judgements?

Jeezo who pissed you off? The gel thing is touted by folk as an excuse for CC's players underperforming. Now't smug about that, it's a fact.

As to your other comment it's not worthy of any response from me

[Arch Stanton]

Jeezo who pissed you off? The gel thing is touted by folk as an excuse for CC's players underperforming. Now't smug about that, it's a fact.

As to your other comment it's not worthy of any response from me

Yea yea - someone bad mouthing you with cogent arguments - just walk away!

p.s. I was referring to YOUR' use of the word 'gel' - not anyone elses!

[Kaiser1962]

I am not being selective. You said " McLeish COULD be regarded as a success because of his league placings and players that he brought in" then basically said it was because of his budget. My point is that this thread is talking about how bad our current manager but you seem to not want to talk about that but pick holes in previous successful managers.

At no point did you say YOU regard him as a success, you preferred to talk about how not enough fans attended compared to his plans and again you have spent most of your post saying he was basically only any good because he had money to spend. He had a budget that was high? yes he did but finished high up the league. Calderwoods budget isnt as big but will be bigger than Motherwells, St Johnstone, St Mirren and Kilmarnocks.

Mcleish with his 4th biggest budget in the SPL finished higher than 4th. Calderwood with his 4th biggest budget is 10th bottom. Who is more successful!


There seemed to be a dispute whether McLeish was regarded as successful or not. I pointed out the reasons why he was. By the same token CC could be regarded as unsuccesful.

CC dosent have the 4th biggest budget, although McLeish did. Which part of my previous post was inaccurate?

[Hiber-nation]

There seemed to be a dispute whether McLeish was regarded as successful or not. I pointed out the reasons why he was. By the same token CC could be regarded as unsuccesful.

CC dosent have the 4th biggest budget, although McLeish did. Which part of my previous post was inaccurate?

I always remember McLeish's last few weeks, with us going down the pan but I suppose you have to think of how he used these resources - he could have squandered it on any old journeymen but he picked 2 of the finest players you'll ever see in a Hibs jersey - and who were still hungry for success, not one last payday (although some could disagree about wee Russ but nevermind:wink:).

[Jonnyboy]

Yea yea - someone bad mouthing you with cogent arguments - just walk away!

p.s. I was referring to YOUR' use of the word 'gel' - not anyone elses!

Cogent arguments - hardly. Your view differs to mine, doesn't make you right and doesn't make me right. I'm not given to snap judgements but clearly you are

[Kaiser1962]

I always remember McLeish's last few weeks, with us going down the pan but I suppose you have to think of how he used these resources - he could have squandered it on any old journeymen but he picked 2 of the finest players you'll ever see in a Hibs jersey - and who were still hungry for success, not one last payday (although some could disagree about wee Russ but nevermind:wink:).


Absolutely correct.

He signed some good players but ,in the interests of balance, some of his signings were horrendous.

[HFC 0-7]

There seemed to be a dispute whether McLeish was regarded as successful or not. I pointed out the reasons why he was. By the same token CC could be regarded as unsuccesful.

CC dosent have the 4th biggest budget, although McLeish did. Which part of my previous post was inaccurate?

OK, your original post said he COULD be regarded as a successful manager, you never said you thought he was until your second post but you still chose to go on about how he done this on a big budget as if this was the only reason for it. Out of all of this thread, which is about Calderwood not being good, you seem to have jumped on the McLeish being successful part and saying its because he had a big budget. It seems to me you are deflecting any negativity aimed at Calderwood by trying to bring up things like McLeish was successful because he had money and Calderwood doesnt have the same amount of money so we should esxpect anything from him.

[HFC 0-7]

Absolutely correct.

He signed some good players but ,in the interests of balance, some of his signings were horrendous.

Again, in a thread aimed at Calderwood being rank, you choose to highlight the flaws of other another manager that had us at the correct end of the table, playing entertaining football! Something we could only dream about in our current situation.

[Arch Stanton]

Cogent arguments - hardly. Your view differs to mine, doesn't make you right and doesn't make me right. I'm not given to snap judgements but clearly you are

Surely this isn't a debating contest - if it was I wouldn't bother in the least if you won!

What in hell is wrong here that prevents people from bringing up opinions and trying to arrive at some kind of better understanding of what is going on?

[Liberal Hibby]

It's interesting but not surprising to note that despite this anti-Calderwood thread, nobody as far as I can see has leapt to his defence. Surely his time is up.:pray:

OK I'll give it a go...


Nah - can't be bothered.


When CC goes (and I now think it's a case of when, not if) I hope his replacement is appointed well in advance of the window opening. So we can get a good idea of their coaching and tactical ability. A good coach should be able to make a difference with someone else's squad - something that has been lacking at Easter Road since the days of Tony Mowbray (or possibly Collins).

[Kaiser1962]

Again, in a thread aimed at Calderwood being rank, you choose to highlight the flaws of other another manager that had us at the correct end of the table, playing entertaining football! Something we could only dream about in our current situation.


Again what have I said that's inaccurate or untrue?

[Jonnyboy]

Surely this isn't a debating contest - if it was I wouldn't bother in the least if you won!

What in hell is wrong here that prevents people from bringing up opinions and trying to arrive at some kind of better understanding of what is going on?

I dunno but I agree totally with you. Opinions should be aired and debated. That's the point of a messageboard after all :agree:

[Hiber-nation]

Absolutely correct.

He signed some good players but ,in the interests of balance, some of his signings were horrendous.

Well I suppose you tend to forget about Paul Holsgrove and Earl Jean when you're reminiscing about Sauzee & Latapy :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

OK I'll give it a go...


Nah - can't be bothered.


When CC goes (and I now think it's a case of when, not if) I hope his replacement is appointed well in advance of the window opening. So we can get a good idea of their coaching and tactical ability. A good coach should be able to make a difference with someone else's squad - something that has been lacking at Easter Road since the days of Tony Mowbray (or possibly Collins).

I agree, why do new managers have to be judged after they have their team? Let's see them improve what they inherit before they waste any money.

[matty_f]

I agree, why do new managers have to be judged after they have their team? Let's see them improve what they inherit before they waste any money.

I agree with this. I think there's been a case for each manager post Collins to be able to argue that they've inherited a load of pish from the previous manager, but frankly I'm sick of seeing better managers go into troubled clubs and sort them out, often with nowhere near the resources that we have given our managers.

[Kaiser1962]

Well I suppose you tend to forget about Paul Holsgrove and Earl Jean when you're reminiscing about Sauzee & Latapy
:greengrin

I was thinking Eduardo Hurtado, Klaus Dietrich or Peter Guggi myself. :greengrin


In all seriousness it just highlights how difficult a task it is to identify a worthwhile signing who will do a good job and when the budget gets much tighter it only reduces the margin for error.

[HFC 0-7]

Again what have I said that's inaccurate or untrue?

I never said you said anything inaccurate or untrue, apart from first off saying that you said Mcleish was a success as you said he could be regarded as a success. My point is that you seem to be trying to deflect any criticism of Calderwood by making points such as previous manager who enjoyed success only did so because they had money.

[Tricla]

From what I hear, that wish is being granted more and more with each passing week and you'll soon have the whole stadium to yourself to enjoy watching us get humped and think it's nothing to worry about.

GG

When did I say I wasn't concerned about our performances?

I'm more concerned by the amount of negativity and bile that comes from our support.

[Kaiser1962]

I never said you said anything inaccurate or untrue, apart from first off saying that you said Mcleish was a success as you said he could be regarded as a success. My point is that you seem to be trying to deflect any criticism of Calderwood by making points such as previous manager who enjoyed success only did so because they had money.


I was pointing out that McLeish could be regarded as a success because of league placings and cup final appearance and was offering this as evidence of why he was regarded thus. My opinion was largely irrelevant.

There is also evidence that suggests the more you spend the better you do. The average points per game since the SPL's inception still has Hibs in 4th place. The top three mirror exactly the amount spent although Hibs are one place above their 5th place in the money spent table. Without doubt the amount you can spend significantly affects the outcome. Which was the point I was making.

[The Green Goblin]

When did I say I wasn't concerned about our performances? I'm more concerned by the amount of negativity and bile that comes from our support.


I agree that what you're talking about gets a bit much at times, and it's horrible when you just want to try and enjoy the game, but it's always been there. The fact that things on the pitch are so poor (and have been for such a long time) just helps turn it all up and make it much worse.

The fans' collective faith has crumbled and that's what you are hearing. As irritating as that is, it is also understandable.

GG

[joebakerforever]

McLeish could be regarded as successful due to our league position and Cup final appearance. This was achieved, however, with the biggest budget available to a Hibs manager in modern times. By spending big on class players like Sauzee and Zittelli McLeish always planned to cut the visiting fans allocations and house them in a small section of the old main stand (the south), and having Hibs fans filling the three sides as well as 2/3 of the Main Stand. Unfortunately the increased gates McLeish planned on didnt happen.


You're being selective with what I said.

I said I regard McLeish as a successful Hibs manager but did point out that he had a decent budget, superior to Aberdeens and not far behind that of Hearts. Nowadays our budget is, more often than not, less than Aberdeen's and about half that of Hearts.

As you say "we had a team fans loved to watch" but, unfortunately, not enough wanted to pay to do so and that particular wages model was therefore unsustainable.

Re the McLeish wages model being unsustainable, do you think the Petrie rationale of increasing the stadium capacity and then reducing the playing budget is financially sound ?

While no fan of Calderwood, I recognise that having his budget cut, has prevented him recruiting the likes of Sheridan, with Rod not prepared to meet the previously negotiated weekly wage.

[HFC 0-7]

I was pointing out that McLeish could be regarded as a success because of league placings and cup final appearance and was offering this as evidence of why he was regarded thus. My opinion was largely irrelevant.

There is also evidence that suggests the more you spend the better you do. The average points per game since the SPL's inception still has Hibs in 4th place. The top three mirror exactly the amount spent although Hibs are one place above their 5th place in the money spent table. Without doubt the amount you can spend significantly affects the outcome. Which was the point I was making.

Which is my point, you never said you thought he was a success you said he could be regarded as a success.

In regards to your very selective stats with the average points per game hibs being in 4th. If you actually look at league standings for the last 12 seasons hibs on average are 6th. In regards to the second point in bold, obviously the more you spend the better things SHOULD be but in hibs case it isnt the case. With calderwood in charge we probably have the 4th biggest budget, we sit in 10th. Again you seem to not want to accept that we are in a bad way with Calderwood and instead point out that managers that have been a success done it due to having more money. Nothing to say that they are actually good at their job, and certainly nothing to say that calderwood, even on his smaller budget, is still not doing a great job. Seems to me that you are trying to find any reason to explain why Calderwoods bad record is someone elses or somethings elses fault rather than his own short comings. In this instance you look at money as the factor why previous managers have been better than Calderwood.

[Kaiser1962]

Re the McLeish wages model being unsustainable, do you think the Petrie rationale of increasing the stadium capacity andthen reducing the playing budget is financially sound ?

Historically it would appear that a 20k stadium is too big for Hibs as we have only averaged over 15k once, in the 70's, in the last half century. Hibs have, uniquely in the SPL, increased their player budget incrementally over the last six season's, although I would be surprised if that trend is shown to continue when this seasons accounts are published


While no fan of Calderwood, I recognise that having his budget cut, has prevented him recruiting the likes of Sheridan, with Rod not prepared to meet the previously negotiated weekly wage.

I too am also guessing that the budget has been cut but I would add this is a guess and I have no evidence of this. My understanding was that Sheridan (his agent) failed to get back to Hibs, or answer Calderwoods calls, and Calderwood pulled the plug on that particular deal prior to CS signing for St. Johnstone. I have no knowledge whether or nor Rod (or anyone else at Hibs) have renegaded on any "previously negotiated weekly wage" and would be interested in the details.

[blackpoolhibs]

When did I say I wasn't concerned about our performances?

I'm more concerned by the amount of negativity and bile that comes from our support.

I'd be more concerned about results, as the bile is only going to get worse the more we lose. The two go hand in hand, maybe for not much longer as there will be no bugger there to moan soon.

[tamig]

I too am also guessing that the budget has been cut but I would add this is a guess and I have no evidence of this. My understanding was that Sheridan (his agent) failed to get back to Hibs, or answer Calderwoods calls, and Calderwood pulled the plug on that particular deal prior to CS signing for St. Johnstone. I have no knowledge whether or nor Rod (or anyone else at Hibs) have renegaded on any "previously negotiated weekly wage" and would be interested in the details.

I thought the Sheridan deal was pulled simply because of the length of the deal on offer from his club. CC wanted a season long loan but the club only wanted it to be to end of the year. That's the deal he signed for St J I believe. Nothing to do with wages or Rod going back on his word re wages.

[Kaiser1962]

Which is my point, you never said you thought he was a success you said he could be regarded as a success.

Which my point was I offered evidence that he was a success rather than giving an opinion. I never said he wasnt a success.


In regards to your very selective stats with the average points per game hibs being in 4th.


I used the average because if you construct the table merely from points gained it does not give a wholly accurate picture as the first five in this category have had an extra season, 36 games, to accumulate those points, as have two of the clubs below us in the overall points table. Hence I used an average points per game played.

We could also say that, on average, Hibs have a better goals to game ratio than Hearts and are fourth overall in goals actually scored even without taking the season we were relegated into account.

I am not saying we are good or that Calderwood's record is anything other than poor. I am only pointing out that while our budget is mentioned a lot and its also mentioned that teams with less money tend to do better than us when, overall, that is not the case. You yourself said Calderwood has the "4th biggest budget" when evidence suggests that, on average, Aberdeen spend more than we do. It may be correct this season but we will not know this until the figures are published for both clubs in November 2012.

[Beefster]

When did I say I wasn't concerned about our performances?

I'm more concerned by the amount of negativity and bile that comes from our support.

I don't boo anyone at ER but the folk you are talking about are likely suffering this dross every home game, having shelled out hundreds to watch it. You can criticise them all you want but they are still contributing more to the club than you.

[The Green Goblin]

I don't boo anyone at ER but the folk you are talking about are likely suffering this dross every home game, having shelled out hundreds to watch it. You can criticise them all you want but they are still contributing more to the club than you.

To be fair, the poster you replied to did say they were at the game. The fact that they were complaining about what they heard there was why they were unhappy in the first place.

GG

[allezsauzee]

I'm all for giving managers a chance as long as you can see signs of improvement. But I think this is now the worst Hibs team I've seen since i started supporting them in late seventies and I've obviously seen more than my fair share of dross. I think we have to forget about that 400k that we might have got from Birmingham and make a change. Bearing in mind we are in the best financial health of any team in the SPL we can afford to take the hit.

[Kaiser1962]

I'm all for giving managers a chance as long as you can see signs of improvement. But I think this is now the worst Hibs team I've seen since i started supporting them in late seventies and I've obviously seen more than my fair share of dross. I think we have to forget about that 400k that we might have got from Birmingham and make a change. Bearing in mind we are in the best financial health of any team in the SPL we can afford to take the hit.


I do not think this is the case.

[fatbloke]

....................... and meanwhile we have a thread sneering at and calling for the head of Lennon. Look no further than the turmoill at ER. Calderwood is not, never was and never will be the man to lead Hibs away from the foot of the table. How much more of this nightmare must we put up with?

To be fair to myself I started sneering at Lennon long long before we were so abysmal. At the time it was a pleasant distraction. 50 years of watching my beloved club and so far this season I have been at the Blackpool friendly and nothing else, probably will not go back until he is gone, CC that is as the man is killing us. Watched Huns v Saints yesterday and I really fear for us next week. Says it all!!

[Beefster]

To be fair, the poster you replied to did say they were at the game. The fact that they were complaining about what they heard there was why they were unhappy in the first place.

GG

Whilst freely admitting that they don't go along that often any longer....

Considering how sitting through 90 minutes of Hibs is such a chore at the moment, if this continues, I'll probably pick and choose my games next season too but I won't feel entitled to criticise the poor souls who are continuing to commit to the club, in advance, with their time and cash. Even a wee bit credit, rather than criticism, to those standing by the club might be in order? If many more folk give up their STs, the club will be in a serious state.

[hibs0666]

When did I say I wasn't concerned about our performances?

I'm more concerned by the amount of negativity and bile that comes from our support.

There does appear to be little desire amongst the Easter Road attendees to support the team. To start booing the team after ten minutes is just pathetic.

People will have a pop at directors and managers and they are fair game. However our supporters really do need to take a good look at themselves too - it is us that creates the poison that passes for atmosphere at home game these days.

[smurf]

There does appear to be little desire amongst the Easter Road attendees to support the team. To start booing the team after ten minutes is just pathetic.

People will have a pop at directors and managers and they are fair game. However our supporters really do need to take a good look at themselves too - it is us that creates the poison that passes for atmosphere at home game these days.

How many wins have the loyal season ticket Easter Road public watched the past two seasons?

How many decent performances?

It has been a disgrace and an utter embarrassment to a club that has stated board and management top four aspirations.

Largely the support at Easter Road are supporting the team. And did so on Saturday.

The truth is much more so than what an awful lot of other supports in the circumstances would do.

It's becoming all too easy for some to knock our support at the moment.

[hibs0666]

How many wins have the loyal season ticket Easter Road public watched the past two seasons?

How many decent performances?

It has been a disgrace and an utter embarrassment to a club that has stated board and management top four aspirations.

Largely the support at Easter Road are supporting the team. And did so on Saturday.

The truth is much more so than what an awful lot of other supports in the circumstances would do.

It's becoming all too easy for some to knock our support at the moment.

So we have a good support then?

[smurf]

So we have a good support then?

Yes we do have.

Why don't we?

If anything our support are too supportive of the club/team when you consider the mediocrity of our results and performances for YEARS now at ER.

You tell me another clubs support that under these circumstances would be more supportive?

[Phil MaGlass]

Quite surprised actually, last few weeks its," that boy Brown has fairly got the team playing", then we get beat this week "its CC,s fault" and not Browns wish some folk would make up their minds.Surely if we get beat its both their faults, yi cannae huv yir cake and eat it, unless yir the ugly sisters.

[bawheid]

How many wins have the loyal season ticket Easter Road public watched the past two seasons?

How many decent performances?

It has been a disgrace and an utter embarrassment to a club that has stated board and management top four aspirations.

Largely the support at Easter Road are supporting the team. And did so on Saturday.

The truth is much more so than what an awful lot of other supports in the circumstances would do.

It's becoming all too easy for some to knock our support at the moment.

Smurf, your posts really would carry a lot more weight if you didn't go overboard on the kind of stuff in bold.

Attendances show that the Hibs support isn't really that loyal. Like most supports they turn up when we're winning and disappear when we're poor. I don't think we're any different from any other club.

I'm not knocking the support by the way. It's completely understandable that crowds are drifting away. But lets not hold ourselves up as somehow "special" when everyone can hear the vitriol that rains down on the players from the stands, often minutes into a match.

[hibs0666]

Yes we do have.

Why don't we?

If anything our support are too supportive of the club/team when you consider the mediocrity of our results and performances for YEARS now at ER.

You tell me another clubs support that under these circumstances would be more supportive?

A good support doesn't start to boo it's home team after 10 minutes. I don't hear Inverness supporters doing that. I don't hear St. Mirren supporters doing that. I don't hear Dunfermline supporters doing that. Enough already?

[smurf]

I think rightly folk credited the greater desire that so happened to coincide with BB's arrival to BB.

But when all is said and done he is the assistant. And assistant only.

The main man and manager is CC.

And the difference between the two positions shouldn't be forgotten.

For a start who signed the majority of the latest crop of huddies we now have?

[down the slope]

I think supporters boo the performance rather than individual players, what's the option , cheer when we are crap ?, those responsible for the debacle would love that !.

[steakbake]

There does appear to be little desire amongst the Easter Road attendees to support the team. To start booing the team after ten minutes is just pathetic.

People will have a pop at directors and managers and they are fair game. However our supporters really do need to take a good look at themselves too - it is us that creates the poison that passes for atmosphere at home game these days.

A guy standing a few rows over from me was on at Stacky for the whole game. "What are you standing there for?" he shouted at one point, when Hibs were making a rare attack forward. Then when the MOTM was announced he was outraged "Whoever gave him that has lost it!".

That kind of insane rambling aside, I can see why the fans are pissed off. Have we seen anything to indicate there will be an improvement, that the players are genuinely giving 100%, that our tactics and formations are carefully considered and effective? There is no feel-good in the stadium just now because there is nothing to feel good about. I think there is a danger that the club has lost the fans.

[smurf]

Smurf, your posts really would carry a lot more weight if you didn't go overboard on the kind of stuff in bold.

Attendances show that the Hibs support isn't really that loyal. Like most supports they turn up when we're winning and disappear when we're poor. I don't think we're any different from any other club.

I'm not knocking the support by the way. It's completely understandable that crowds are drifting away. But lets not hold ourselves up as somehow "special" when everyone can hear the vitriol that rains down on the players from the stands, often minutes into a match.

I'm not interested in your patronising nonsense.

To deny our results are not embarrassing and disgraceful is just daft. Nitpick at the language used all you want...

The MAJORITY of our support that ever bought season tickets still are are they not?

We still have historically high season ticket numbers do we not?

The MAJORITY are not constantly booing the players. At football grounds for years, shock horror including Easter Road, supporters in good times and bad can get on the back of players.

[flash]

A good support doesn't start to boo it's home team after 10 minutes. I don't hear Inverness supporters doing that. I don't hear St. Mirren supporters doing that. I don't hear Dunfermline supporters doing that. Enough already?

The reason you never hear this is because they are playing us and we never dominate like motherwell did on saturday.
If they had to watch the spineless dross we did they would soon let their team know.

[Speedway]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20111015/cc-reviews-motherwell-match_2262950_2483277

'A shadow of any side you'd want representing Hibernian Football Club'

You signed 8 of them, Colin.

[hibs0666]

A guy standing a few rows over from me was on at Stacky for the whole game. "What are you standing there for?" he shouted at one point, when Hibs were making a rare attack forward. Then when the MOTM was announced he was outraged "Whoever gave him that has lost it!".

That kind of insane rambling aside, I can see why the fans are pissed off. Have we seen anything to indicate there will be an improvement, that the players are genuinely giving 100%, that our tactics and formations are carefully considered and effective? There is no feel-good in the stadium just now because there is nothing to feel good about. I think there is a danger that the club has lost the fans.

I can understand the frustrations because I am utterly pissed off too. However I also know that booing my team after 10 minutes is the actions of an imbecile. I've been to Ibrox and I know that you're half-way to a result when that mob start hurling abuse. For exactly the same reason the Motherwell players would have been delighted to hear the vitriol pouring down on the Hibs team from its support after ten minutes.

Then, after hurling abuse at players whose confidence is clearly fragile, we then get morally indignant when the same players start to hide. Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

[bawheid]

I'm not interested in your patronising nonsense.

To deny our results are not embarrassing and disgraceful is just daft. Nitpick at the language used all you want...

The MAJORITY of our support that ever bought season tickets still are are they not?

We still have historically high season ticket numbers do we not?

The MAJORITY are not constantly booing the players. At football grounds for years, shock horror including Easter Road, supporters in good times and bad can get on the back of players.

Personally speaking, I've never felt embarrassed of Hibs. You carry on though.

We have the season ticket numbers because we do because we're a fairly big club in a fairly big city. It's nothing to do with us having more loyal uberfans than any other club.

Aberdeen are similar - their season ticket numbers and attendances have fallen away because they're pish - just like us.

The atmosphere at Easter Road has been poisonous for years. You can count on one hand the number of times the Hibs support has picked the team up off the canvas and turned us around recently.

The Dundee United game was a case in point. It wasn't the fans that got us back in the game at 3-1 down. Most were streaming for the exits hurling abuse at the pitch / dugout. The players had to do it themselves.

[blackpoolhibs]

A good support doesn't start to boo it's home team after 10 minutes. I don't hear Inverness supporters doing that. I don't hear St. Mirren supporters doing that. I don't hear Dunfermline supporters doing that. Enough already?

I'd imagine you dont hear those teams moaning much, St Mirren are punching above their weight, Dunfermline have just been promoted. Inverness too, and all play to crowds much smaller some a 3rd of our average crowd.

Now if these clubs were spending the amount of money we do on players, and had our crowds, well our normal crowds. If these clubs were as big a club as we are, or supposed to be, and they had been through the dross we have been watching, i'm pretty sure they'd be moaning too.

I dont agree with booing players, i think we should get behind the team 100% during games, and leave the abuse until the end. After saying all that, i finally understand why its happening, a lot of peoples patience has snapped.

In fact i'd go as far as saying now, those who wont say what they are feeling are actually holding the club back. Those who sit back and say nothing are doing more damage than those who are. giving this board and manager an easy time is what they want, its gone way past the time they should not be told, and shouting it from the rooftops is the only way they understand.

Yes we could all wright a letter explaining our anger, if anyone has ever done this you know the reply off by heart, we are giving our all, we must do better and we are striving towards that goal, or words to that effect. I know they cant come out and say we know we are sheite, and the manager and players needs a boot up the arse.

Protest during a game or even after has always been the fans way of showing their displeasure, that will never change.

[flash]

If it's all the fans fault we are murder then explain probably the worst Derby record on Earth. Nobody could say the team don't get great backing at those games yet they almost always are outfought by Hertz.

[hibs0666]

I'd imagine you dont hear those teams moaning much, St Mirren are punching above their weight, Dunfermline have just been promoted. Inverness too, and all play to crowds much smaller some a 3rd of our average crowd.

Now if these clubs were spending the amount of money we do on players, and had our crowds, well our normal crowds. If these clubs were as big a club as we are, or supposed to be, and they had been through the dross we have been watching, i'm pretty sure they'd be moaning too.

I dont agree with booing players, i think we should get behind the team 100% during games, and leave the abuse until the end. After saying all that, i finally understand why its happening, a lot of peoples patience has snapped.

In fact i'd go as far as saying now, those who wont say what they are feeling are actually holding the club back. Those who sit back and say nothing are doing more damage than those who are. giving this board and manager an easy time is what they want, its gone way past the time they should not be told, and shouting it from the rooftops is the only way they understand.

Yes we could all wright a letter explaining our anger, if anyone has ever done this you know the reply off by heart, we are giving our all, we must do better and we are striving towards that goal, or words to that effect. I know they cant come out and say we know we are sheite, and the manager and players needs a boot up the arse.

Protest during a game or even after has always been the fans way of showing their displeasure, that will never change.

I disagree that we have more right to abuse our team just because were a bit bigger than other clubs - I really hope we're not that arrogant.

I guarantee you that the people running the club know how people feel, and I also guarantee you that they are as frustrated as every one of us because they know it is pretty much impossible to sell tickets, corporate packages and sponsorship when results are poor. Booing the players after 10 minutes is not telling those that run the club anything that they didn't already know and certainly does not do one iota of good.

[hibs0666]

If it's all the fans fault we are murder then explain probably the worst Derby record on Earth. Nobody could say the team don't get great backing at those games yet they almost always are outfought by Hertz.

Nae need for the drama - it's not even the worst derby record in Scotland never mind earth. :wink:

I'll give you the biggest reason - belief. The team does not believe we can beat the yams and neither does the supporters and it has been like this for a years.

As soon as we go one down to them then we as a support pretty much give up, go quiet and take our punishment. When we're drawing with them we all sit there shiiting ourselves and fully expect to lose the equaliser. And, when we're winning going into the last ten minutes then we don't ****** ourselves becuase we know that they will get a goal back.

It's the Hibs way I'm afraid.

[flash]

Who has a worse record than us? queens park against rangers?
I was actually surprised how little abuse the team got on saturday.

There was more silent acceptance which scares me far more than some booing.

[Cabbage East]

Who has a worse record than us? queens park against rangers?
I was actually surprised how little abuse the team got on saturday.

There was more silent acceptance which scares me far more than some booing.

Exactly, indifference and apathy is a more dangerous thing for the club than anger. This will see crowds tumble even further.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Won't pay to watch the club again this season, and won't even listen to games on radio either. In fact, my weekends will be completely Hibs free, no longer will they affect my weekends.

Until CC is gone and we have a team to be reasonably proud of, the odd visit to this site will be the only hibs stuff I'll see or hear about, and by god it's even more depressing than i thought it would be (but no real surprise).

Our club is rotten top to bottom.

[ac1]

If it's all the fans fault we are murder then explain probably the worst Derby record on Earth. Nobody could say the team don't get great backing at those games yet they almost always are outfought by Hertz.


Our record against Hearts is shameful - I think they could stick eleven traffic cones in maroon strips out on the pitch against us at Tynecastle and we would somehow bottle it. Tynecastle is like a recurring bad dream..................

[Beefster]

I disagree that we have more right to abuse our team just because were a bit bigger than other clubs - I really hope we're not that arrogant.

I don't want to speak for others but that is twisting what was said. The point was that we are consistently under-performing with regards to the resources we have. The other clubs mentioned are not.

[blackpoolhibs]

I disagree that we have more right to abuse our team just because were a bit bigger than other clubs - I really hope we're not that arrogant.

I guarantee you that the people running the club know how people feel, and I also guarantee you that they are as frustrated as every one of us because they know it is pretty much impossible to sell tickets, corporate packages and sponsorship when results are poor. Booing the players after 10 minutes is not telling those that run the club anything that they didn't already know and certainly does not do one iota of good.

I see what you are saying, but i'd wager a large bet all those clubs would be doing exactly the same as us, if they were us. Nothing to do with being arrogant, its to do with constant under performing, something these clubs never do.

[HFC 0-7]

Which my point was I offered evidence that he was a success rather than giving an opinion. I never said he wasnt a success.




I used the average because if you construct the table merely from points gained it does not give a wholly accurate picture as the first five in this category have had an extra season, 36 games, to accumulate those points, as have two of the clubs below us in the overall points table. Hence I used an average points per game played.

We could also say that, on average, Hibs have a better goals to game ratio than Hearts and are fourth overall in goals actually scored even without taking the season we were relegated into account.

I am not saying we are good or that Calderwood's record is anything other than poor. I am only pointing out that while our budget is mentioned a lot and its also mentioned that teams with less money tend to do better than us when, overall, that is not the case. You yourself said Calderwood has the "4th biggest budget" when evidence suggests that, on average, Aberdeen spend more than we do. It may be correct this season but we will not know this until the figures are published for both clubs in November 2012.

Using the stats in the way you have was just to serve your point and make out we arent that bad. You have used selective stats to try and make out we havent been that bad by saying that using the points we have accumulated since the spl began we are in 4th position but in actual fact out of the last 12 seasons we have only finished 4th or above 4 times. the rest of the time it has been 6th or below. points per game stat is silly as you could have one good season which will inflate that stat and cover the fact all the other seasons have been very average or worse.

You mentioned previously that McLeish could be regarded as a success because he had money, but so did eveyone else. Lets not forget the likes of Rangers had Gascoigne playing for them, Dundee had Claudia Cannigia playing for them!! McLeish was a success, Calderwood hasnt even been mediocre. we are sitting 10th in the league with some of the worst performances I can remember. He has brought in a lot of players that arent doing it. he mentioned he didnt have enough time to get the squad together, fair enough that might be the case, but here we are after the fist round of fixtures still rank rotten and the way that calderwood has assembled the squad with the short term contacts we will be in the same position next season trying to replace players and then waiting or them to 'gel'

[IWasThere2016]

Using the stats in the way you have was just to serve your point and make out we arent that bad. You have used selective stats to try and make out we havent been that bad by saying that using the points we have accumulated since the spl began we are in 4th position but in actual fact out of the last 12 seasons we have only finished 4th or above 4 times. the rest of the time it has been 6th or below. points per game stat is silly as you could have one good season which will inflate that stat and cover the fact all the other seasons have been very average or worse.

You mentioned previously that McLeish could be regarded as a success because he had money, but so did eveyone else. Lets not forget the likes of Rangers had Gascoigne playing for them, Dundee had Claudia Cannigia playing for them!! McLeish was a success, Calderwood hasnt even been mediocre. we are sitting 10th in the league with some of the worst performances I can remember. He has brought in a lot of players that arent doing it. he mentioned he didnt have enough time to get the squad together, fair enough that might be the case, but here we are after the fist round of fixtures still rank rotten and the way that calderwood has assembled the squad with the short term contacts we will be in the same position next season trying to replace players and then waiting or them to 'gel'

As I pointed out elsewhere - we're better off than this time last season - when we were joint bottom, and 23 points off top - this when Yogi had the majority of the matches .. indeed one of the victories was Evans/Stevenson and not Hughes.

Wonderful things stats - not!

[SneakersO'Toole]

I don't agree with fans booing a player/the team after 10mins but anyone who is using this as an excuse for an individuals lack of belief/confidence on the football pitch needs to get real.

We are talking about grown men. Professional footballers apparently. Not some under 8's team playing down the links.

The fans are angry and frustrated and have very right to be. Its time the team gave us something back.

[basehibby]

I can understand the frustrations because I am utterly pissed off too. However I also know that booing my team after 10 minutes is the actions of an imbecile. I've been to Ibrox and I know that you're half-way to a result when that mob start hurling abuse. For exactly the same reason the Motherwell players would have been delighted to hear the vitriol pouring down on the Hibs team from its support after ten minutes.

Then, after hurling abuse at players whose confidence is clearly fragile, we then get morally indignant when the same players start to hide. Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

I'm never one for booing myself and have been known to chastise fellow Hibbys for indulging themselves in this way - but on saturday I had no complaints - such was the pathetic nature of the display in the first half that I found it entirely understandable that some fans' frustrations boiled over in this way.

[HFC 0-7]

As I pointed out elsewhere - we're better off than this time last season - when we were joint bottom, and 23 points off top - this when Yogi had the majority of the matches .. indeed one of the victories was Evans/Stevenson and not Hughes.

Wonderful things stats - not!

Whats your point? All stats are bad? Hibs are on the up? Evans and Stevenson should be the management team? Good for you pointing out that were just a little less honking than last season. Some stats are used to serve an agenda, in my posts I said someone else was using silly stats to make out Hibs are not too bad. My stats are based on league placings, which are really the ones that matter. I am pretty sure RP and co are looking at stats right now, the ones that relate to how much money is coming in, perhaps you would like them to ignore them? Then we may still have Calderwood in as manager with Hibs going into the abyss as its pretty clear the fans have had enough and voting with their feet. Although to see that you would probably need to look at some stats regarding attendances and that doesnt seem to be your bag.:wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm never one for booing myself and have been known to chastise fellow Hibbys for indulging themselves in this way - but on saturday I had no complaints - such was the pathetic nature of the display in the first half that I found it entirely understandable that some fans' frustrations boiled over in this way.

:agree: I think we have been very patient as a support, god we have seen some crap. Its not nice to hear, but its the only way any support can vent their feelings. I often think we should try and be a bit like the old firm fans, no not bigoted or vile like they are, but get behind the team as they always do when they go behind.

The reason i suppose we dont, is we dont have that belief we can get back most of the time, where in the most part they do, and more often than not do come back?

[IWasThere2016]

Whats your point? All stats are bad? Hibs are on the up? Evans and Stevenson should be the management team? Good for you pointing out that were just a little less honking than last season. Some stats are used to serve an agenda, in my posts I said someone else was using silly stats to make out Hibs are not too bad. My stats are based on league placings, which are really the ones that matter. I am pretty sure RP and co are looking at stats right now, the ones that relate to how much money is coming in, perhaps you would like them to ignore them? Then we may still have Calderwood in as manager with Hibs going into the abyss as its pretty clear the fans have had enough and voting with their feet. Although to see that you would probably need to look at some stats regarding attendances and that doesnt seem to be your bag.:wink:

Falling under Yogi .. its on fishy site. We had a capacity of 17,500 IIRC. We used a few hundered more on two occasions under both Yogi and CC .. well worth the investment. My point is the decision to incur the cost/debt in inhibiting on the park where it matters. I said so before it was built and I stand by that.

[blackpoolhibs]

Falling under Yogi .. its on fishy site. We had a capacity of 17,500 IIRC. We used a few hundered more on two occasions under both Yogi and CC .. well worth the investment. My point is the decision to incur the cost/debt in inhibiting on the park where it matters. I said so before it was built and I stand by that.

When we spend more than most, why do those with much less spending power perform better than us? Why do you keep ignoring that?

[IWasThere2016]

When we spend more than most, why do those with much less spending power perform better than us? Why do you keep ignoring that?

I am not. We are losing more money than most clubs - player sales aside - so spending will fall .. spending more on the East compounds the problem. Sadly, ever decreasing circles ..

[bawheid]

I am not. We are losing more money than most clubs - player sales aside - so spending will fall .. spending more on the East compounds the problem. Sadly, ever decreasing circles ..

Both the training facility and the stand were the right things to do. The former recommended by successive managers (Mowbray, Collins), and the latter had to be done prior to planning permission lapsing and while raw materials and construction costs were cheap.

The real problem hasn't been spending money on those. As has been pointed out, clubs with a lesser wage bill are consistently out-performing us. The problem has been identifying managers and players who can use the training facility effectively, and therefore fill the stand.

[IWasThere2016]

Both the training facility and the stand were the right things to do. The former recommended by successive managers (Mowbray, Collins), and the latter had to be done prior to planning permission lapsing and while raw materials and construction costs were cheap.

The real problem hasn't been spending money on those. As has been pointed out, clubs with a lesser wage bill are consistently out-performing us. The problem has been identifying managers and players who can use the training facility effectively, and therefore fill the stand.

A matter of opinion and why did we need to own East Mains?

Did we explore co-owndersip with Local Authorities? Sport Scotland? Other clubs? No.

Could we have leased a facility?

We are inhibiting by having less spare cash, increased costs and greater losses.

Property prices have fallen - if you'd taken a wage cut would you buy a new house now because it is cheaper than it was last year? Strange logic that is it not?

[bawheid]

A matter of opinion and why did we need to own East Mains?

Did we explore co-owndersip with Local Authorities? Sport Scotland? Other clubs? No.

Could we have leased a facility?

We are inhibiting by having less spare cash, increased costs and greater losses.

Property prices have fallen - if you'd taken a wage cut would you buy a new house now because it is cheaper than it was last year? Strange logic that is it not?

Why explore co-ownership when you could buy the land outright? Co-ownerships or leasing arrangements only complicate matters.

Again, the problem hasn't been infrastructure projects taking money away from the team. The money spent on the playing side is second only to Hearts outside the OF, even after the building of East Mains and the new stand. The problem has been using the money effectively.

[blackpoolhibs]

I am not. We are losing more money than most clubs - player sales aside - so spending will fall .. spending more on the East compounds the problem. Sadly, ever decreasing circles ..

Yes you are. Again, why are teams we outspend making us look like amateurs? If spending more money on the problem is the answer, and we had not built the new stand, just how much more do we have to spend before we will match those clubs SPENDING LESS THAN US NOW?

[matty_f]

Why explore co-ownership when you could buy the land outright? Co-ownerships or leasing arrangements only complicate matters.

Again, the problem hasn't been infrastructure projects taking money away from the team. The money spent on the playing side is second only to Hearts outside the OF, even after the building of East Mains and the new stand. The problem has been using the money effectively.

Spot on.

The training ground and the stadium completion took the club on a level and were done whilst keeping our playing budget competitive. They are also built now, and while they have running costs the initial outlay is spent and the club - at least off the field at the moment - is ready to move on once the on the park side gets in a position to capitalise on it.

The issues we have are not down to selling players or not spending more millions on getting new players in, as BH has pointed out, teams on much, much smaller budgets than ours are outperforming us. Money is not the issue.

[IWasThere2016]

Yes you are. Again, why are teams we outspend making us look like amateurs? If spending more money on the problem is the answer, and we had not built the new stand, just how much more do we have to spend before we will match those clubs SPENDING LESS THAN US NOW?

Something we have done for years - JC, Mixu, Yogi and now CC.

We now have less cash than ever to rectify the situation however ..


Why explore co-ownership when you could buy the land outright? Co-ownerships or leasing arrangements only complicate matters.

Again, the problem hasn't been infrastructure projects taking money away from the team. The money spent on the playing side is second only to Hearts outside the OF, even after the building of East Mains and the new stand. The problem has been using the money effectively.

Co-ownership = less construction cost, less operating cost, less risk .. freeing up cash for other things - like them core business of a football team.

So you're no buying that new hoose then?

[IWasThere2016]

Spot on.

The training ground and the stadium completion took the club on a level and were done whilst keeping our playing budget competitive. They are also built now, and while they have running costs the initial outlay is spent and the club - at least off the field at the moment - is ready to move on once the on the park side gets in a position to capitalise on it.

The issues we have are not down to selling players or not spending more millions on getting new players in, as BH has pointed out, teams on much, much smaller budgets than ours are outperforming us. Money is not the issue.

It is right .. but it is only part of the problem. We have a poor cash/trading position and no assets to sell.

The last pure trading profit was in the season of ON-field success. This was not a coincidence.

[blackpoolhibs]

It is right .. but it is only part of the problem. We have a poor cash/trading position and no assets to sell.

The last pure trading profit was in the season of ON-field success. This was not a coincidence.

What assets do these clubs that are out performing us have?

[bawheid]

Property prices have fallen - if you'd taken a wage cut would you buy a new house now because it is cheaper than it was last year? Strange logic that is it not?



Co-ownership = less construction cost, less operating cost, less risk .. freeing up cash for other things - like them core business of a football team.

So you're no buying that new hoose then?

Ok, who were we realistically going to go into co-ownership with? Were there many organisations looking for a dedicated football training facility in East Lothian at the time? The land as I recall was pretty cheap given that current local plans preclude housing.

I'm not sure what point you're making with the new house stuff. The planning permission was about to lapse, the old east stand was a midden, it needed replaced, and with constructions costs at a low we decided to build it. There was still enough of a budget available to compete with the likes of Motherwell.


It is right .. but it is only part of the problem. We have a poor cash/trading position and no assets to sell. the last pure trading profit was in the season of ON-field success. This was not a coincidence.

Correct. You're almost making the point for me. Success on the field is what generates income. Our budget suggests we should be in the semi-finals of cup competitions most years and be in Europe every other year. That we're not has nothing to do with the construction of East Mains or the new stand.

[IWasThere2016]

What assets do these clubs that are out performing us have?

Cash is an asset. Losses aren't. We spend more but we're losing more.

The asset wasn't needed - the cash (we don't have) is especially as successive managers' - and the Board's decisions to - spending are now home to roost.

[IWasThere2016]

Ok, who were we realistically going to go into co-ownership with? Were there many organisations looking for a dedicated football training facility in East Lothian at the time? The land as I recall was pretty cheap given that current local plans preclude housing.

I'm not sure what point you're making with the new house stuff. The planning permission was about to lapse, the old east stand was a midden, it needed replaced, and with constructions costs at a low we decided to build it. There was still enough of a budget available to compete with the likes of Motherwell.

Correct. You're almost making the point for me. Success on the field is what generates income. Our budget suggests we should be in the semi-finals of cup competitions most years and be in Europe every other year. That we're not has nothing to do with the construction of East Mains or the new stand.

Listed co-owners above :wink: Ownership = Risk

Re making the point for you - it is all related. Poor Boardroom decisions have affected our costs, the manager's budget, the quality on the park which impacts on income etc etc .. The East was not needed - it was nice to have - eg the point re the hoose. Property prices are lower today than previously - that is no reason to spend on something you don't need and cannot afford.

[hibs0666]

Yes you are. Again, why are teams we outspend making us look like amateurs? If spending more money on the problem is the answer, and we had not built the new stand, just how much more do we have to spend before we will match those clubs SPENDING LESS THAN US NOW?

I think the major reason for our ongoing failure is the unwillingness to stick with any manager for any length of time. Since Mixu we have had punters clamour at one time or another for the incumbent manager to get the Spanish archer and, by and large, we get our wish. As a result we now have a club that is pretty much unmanageable.

There is a lack of patience amongst our support, the vast majority of which will be happy when Calderwood gets his jotters. The new man will, of course not be good enough to manage the Mighty Hibernian, and will get maybe get a few weeks grace if he's lucky to perform the latest miracle. When the mircale doesn't happen the know-******-alls start with the I-told-you-so. The vocal abuse will then start after his first daft comment to the press before the whole depressing cycle of abuse, intolerance and sacking starts one again.

If it wasn't so depressingly predictable it would be quite funny.

[blackpoolhibs]

Cash is an asset. Losses aren't. We spend more but we're losing more.

The asset wasn't needed - the cash (we don't have) is especially as successive managers' - and the Board's decisions to - spending are now home to roost.

Yet we are still spending more than those beating us. Just how much more do you want us to spend before we should be winning these games?

[Speedway]

Here's a question.

Would the Motherwell starting XI playing in lilac shirts at Easter Road and called Hibernian, have lost 0-1 to the current Hibernian XI playing in unwashed white shirts and called Motherwell?

My point is, Mothers are doing better with cheaper players than we have. When we buy cheaper players, things get worse.

Why is that?

[silverhibee]

I'd imagine you dont hear those teams moaning much, St Mirren are punching above their weight, Dunfermline have just been promoted. Inverness too, and all play to crowds much smaller some a 3rd of our average crowd.

Now if these clubs were spending the amount of money we do on players, and had our crowds, well our normal crowds. If these clubs were as big a club as we are, or supposed to be, and they had been through the dross we have been watching, i'm pretty sure they'd be moaning too.

I dont agree with booing players, i think we should get behind the team 100% during games, and leave the abuse until the end. After saying all that, i finally understand why its happening, a lot of peoples patience has snapped.

In fact i'd go as far as saying now, those who wont say what they are feeling are actually holding the club back. Those who sit back and say nothing are doing more damage than those who are. giving this board and manager an easy time is what they want, its gone way past the time they should not be told, and shouting it from the rooftops is the only way they understand.

Yes we could all wright a letter explaining our anger, if anyone has ever done this you know the reply off by heart, we are giving our all, we must do better and we are striving towards that goal, or words to that effect. I know they cant come out and say we know we are sheite, and the manager and players needs a boot up the arse.

Protest during a game or even after has always been the fans way of showing their displeasure, that will never change.


:top marks

It is obvouisly quite clear that fans are voting with there feet and deciding not to come and watch Hibs anymore, you cant blame them the football on show at ER has been dire for a few years now, but there are still fans who are going along to watch us, 8000 at the weekend, how many went home thinking "what a great game that was, cant wait for the next Hibs game to go along and see the team again", not many.
Wee are past the point of emailing the club with our dissapointment or booing the players, the next game the fans need to make it clear to the board and manager that what is going on with Hibs cannot continue, and if that means telling them to GTF then so be it, if Petrie is not going to do the right thing and sack CC who he has backed through all this sad mess, then our anger needs to be directed at Petrie and co who are running the club, Petrie does not like when the fans turn on him, if these protests get some media attention then just maybe the owner of the club may notice how much of a mess Hibernian FC is in right now and do something about it, because i think he has distanced himself that much from the club that he owns, that he probaly doesn't even know what the score is with Hibs at 4.45 on a Saturday afternoon.
Protesting at ER is the only way to get our point over to the people running the club, i still cannot believe how much of an easy ride CC has got from the Hibs fans, wee hounded Yogi and Mixu out of the club from the stands and they both had us playing in the top six at the end of the seasons and wanted to be hear even with the abuse they were getting, CC must think wee are a bunch of softies the way he is taking the mick this season, it has to stop now, either Petrie does the right thing and admit he has backed the wrong man and sacks him, or Petrie goes with Calderwood, the quicker the better imo.

[IWasThere2016]

Yet we are still spending more than those beating us. Just how much more do you want us to spend before we should be winning these games?

We don't have the cash. It has gone .. IMHO, courtesy of poor Board decisions.

[blackpoolhibs]

We don't have the cash. It has gone .. IMHO, courtesy of poor Board decisions.

Right the moneys gone, are we paying less than Motherwell/St Johnstone/Dundee Utd/Kilmarnock/St Mirren/Aberdeen/ or Dunfermline do on wages and transfer fee's now?

[bawheid]

The East was not needed - it was nice to have - eg the point re the hoose. Property prices are lower today than previously - that is no reason to spend on something you don't need and cannot afford.

You weren't in the east terracing much were you?! Great atmosphere - pish view, seats, toilets, facilities. It needed done.

Even then our playing budget should still see us competing with Motherwell at home.

[steakbake]

Here's a question.

Would the Motherwell starting XI playing in lilac shirts at Easter Road and called Hibernian, have lost 0-1 to the current Hibernian XI playing in unwashed white shirts and called Motherwell?

My point is, Mothers are doing better with cheaper players than we have. When we buy cheaper players, things get worse.

Why is that?

Organisation, tactics and a team mentality? Motherwell are, to a man, not better players than the Hibs players. I won't even give Hibs the excuse that the playing staff are rubbish because that simply isn't the case. The difference was organisation, a bit of drive, tactics and direction. When they passed, they were moving. When we passed, it was like getting rid of a hot potato. When they played, they were taking players on and trying to play a bit of football. Our players look so afraid and timid that they rarely took the ball for a run and tried to skin a man or two.

They were delighted with their win on the weekend. You could see it meant a lot to them when they came off the pitch.

I have to say, I felt envious of the Well support on Saturday. They really have something to cheer about with that team.

[EasterRoad4Ever]

I'd imagine you dont hear those teams moaning much, St Mirren are punching above their weight, Dunfermline have just been promoted. Inverness too, and all play to crowds much smaller some a 3rd of our average crowd.

Now if these clubs were spending the amount of money we do on players, and had our crowds, well our normal crowds. If these clubs were as big a club as we are, or supposed to be, and they had been through the dross we have been watching, i'm pretty sure they'd be moaning too.

I dont agree with booing players, i think we should get behind the team 100% during games, and leave the abuse until the end. After saying all that, i finally understand why its happening, a lot of peoples patience has snapped.

In fact i'd go as far as saying now, those who wont say what they are feeling are actually holding the club back. Those who sit back and say nothing are doing more damage than those who are. giving this board and manager an easy time is what they want, its gone way past the time they should not be told, and shouting it from the rooftops is the only way they understand.

Yes we could all wright a letter explaining our anger, if anyone has ever done this you know the reply off by heart, we are giving our all, we must do better and we are striving towards that goal, or words to that effect. I know they cant come out and say we know we are sheite, and the manager and players needs a boot up the arse.

Protest during a game or even after has always been the fans way of showing their displeasure, that will never change.

The only language Petrie and the Board take notice of has £££ signs in front of it. I'm way past the point of protesting about this shambles of a football club, and will - like many many others next season - just not renew my season ticket. THAT more than anything else will give Petrie the message. Far less frustration for me, and less money for Hibs = result.

[IWasThere2016]

Right the moneys gone, are we paying less than Motherwell/St Johnstone/Dundee Utd/Kilmarnock/St Mirren/Aberdeen/ or Dunfermline do on wages and transfer fee's now?

Been here. We're losing more as well as spending more.

[blackpoolhibs]

Been here. We're losing more as well as spending more.

Are we spending more than these clubs or not?

[Northernhibee]

I think the major reason for our ongoing failure is the unwillingness to stick with any manager for any length of time. Since Mixu we have had punters clamour at one time or another for the incumbent manager to get the Spanish archer and, by and large, we get our wish. As a result we now have a club that is pretty much unmanageable.There is a lack of patience amongst our support, the vast majority of which will be happy when Calderwood gets his jotters. The new man will, of course not be good enough to manage the Mighty Hibernian, and will get maybe get a few weeks grace if he's lucky to perform the latest miracle. When the mircale doesn't happen the know-******-alls start with the I-told-you-so. The vocal abuse will then start after his first daft comment to the press before the whole depressing cycle of abuse, intolerance and sacking starts one again.If it wasn't so depressingly predictable it would be quite funny. Okay, why should we keep CC? What has he developed? What makes us better than when he started?You keep making posts like these, but the idea of "it'll be the same for the next guy" is no defence of him, in fact it is irrelevant as we are debating whether or not CC is fit to run this football club.So, straight question: what do you propose as being the fix for our current relegation form?

[IWasThere2016]

You weren't in the east terracing much were you?! Great atmosphere - pish view, seats, toilets, facilities. It needed done.

Even then our playing budget should still see us competing with Motherwell at home.

Been in the East as terracing and old stand plenty - and new

So a bigger budget guarantees us a win against lesser budgets everytime?

[IWasThere2016]

Are we spending more than these clubs or not?

Read the last five words of my post - the one you quoted - aloud and slowly :wink:

[mcfly]

does anyone actually know how long calderwoods contract is??

however did anyone read the sun this morning - hibs marketing team will this week be trying to encourage more season ticket sales.

a tough ask when most season ticket holders are looking for reasons not to go to easter road on a sat.

I reckon they will struggle to sell any

[hibs0666]

So, straight question: what do you propose as being the fix for our current relegation form?

I think you're asking the wrong question.

[blackpoolhibs]

Read the last five words of my post - the one you quoted - aloud and slowly :wink:

Ok, let me get this right. We are spending more than these clubs, but are not beating them, in fact not even matching them. So again, just how much more should we outspend them before we will start doing so. Answer please.

[tamig]

I think the major reason for our ongoing failure is the unwillingness to stick with any manager for any length of time. Since Mixu we have had punters clamour at one time or another for the incumbent manager to get the Spanish archer and, by and large, we get our wish. As a result we now have a club that is pretty much unmanageable.

There is a lack of patience amongst our support, the vast majority of which will be happy when Calderwood gets his jotters. The new man will, of course not be good enough to manage the Mighty Hibernian, and will get maybe get a few weeks grace if he's lucky to perform the latest miracle. When the mircale doesn't happen the know-******-alls start with the I-told-you-so. The vocal abuse will then start after his first daft comment to the press before the whole depressing cycle of abuse, intolerance and sacking starts one again.

If it wasn't so depressingly predictable it would be quite funny.

What an excellent post. Couldn't agree with you more :agree:

[ronaldo7]

does anyone actually know how long calderwoods contract is??

however did anyone read the sun this morning - hibs marketing team will this week be trying to encourage more season ticket sales.

a tough ask when most season ticket holders are looking for reasons not to go to easter road on a sat.

I reckon they will struggle to sell any

I'll be buying a half season for a Hibee returning from his Worldly sojourns. He might as well go through the pain too:aok:

[Northernhibee]

I think you're asking the wrong question. Considering all the evidence is stacked against CC, what question should I be asking you?

[LeithBoozy]

does anyone actually know how long calderwoods contract is??

however did anyone read the sun this morning - hibs marketing team will this week be trying to encourage more season ticket sales.

a tough ask when most season ticket holders are looking for reasons not to go to easter road on a sat.

I reckon they will struggle to sell anyHe signed a three-year deal with us in Oct 2010 mate.

[down the slope]

I think the major reason for our ongoing failure is the unwillingness to stick with any manager for any length of time. Since Mixu we have had punters clamour at one time or another for the incumbent manager to get the Spanish archer and, by and large, we get our wish. As a result we now have a club that is pretty much unmanageable.

There is a lack of patience amongst our support, the vast majority of which will be happy when Calderwood gets his jotters. The new man will, of course not be good enough to manage the Mighty Hibernian, and will get maybe get a few weeks grace if he's lucky to perform the latest miracle. When the mircale doesn't happen the know-******-alls start with the I-told-you-so. The vocal abuse will then start after his first daft comment to the press before the whole depressing cycle of abuse, intolerance and sacking starts one again.

If it wasn't so depressingly predictable it would be quite funny.

You must be assuming that Rod will get the next managers appointment wrong ?, all the more reason for him to be nowhere near the recruitment process !. But what if we made a correct choice for a change ?, we start winning ,look like we have some sort of plan and the punters roll up once again ? simple in it, get the right man .

[IWasThere2016]

Ok, let me get this right. We are spending more than these clubs, but are not beating them, in fact not even matching them. So again, just how much more should we outspend them before we will start doing so. Answer please.

Are you saying if we spend more we automatically win games or that as we outspend the others we should automatically beat them? Does it really work this way?

I refer you to my previous posts - see in particluar the first line of 208. All recent managers and the Board have wasted funds. Moreover, they have wasted the opportunity presented by Mowbray's side, SUABC and silverware in 2007 as since then we have been on a slippery slope.

Cash gives one options. It presents opportunities. Clearly, it is not unlimited and has not been used wisely.

Such, our cash and I&E positions are in a poor state.

The Board do not appear to be in charge of our destiny (as the fans have walked and more keep walking).

It will take a long time for them to return IMHO. The baw is burst.

[hibs0666]

Considering all the evidence is stacked against CC, what question should I be asking you?

For me the only question that matters is what do we need to do to become a club that consistently punches above its weight?

If you can explain to me how sacking Calderwood will guarantee this this then I'll be there on the picket line with you. :wink:

[hibs0666]

You must be assuming that Rod will get the next managers appointment wrong ?, all the more reason for him to be nowhere near the recruitment process !. But what if we made a correct choice for a change ?, we start winning ,look like we have some sort of plan and the punters roll up once again ? simple in it, get the right man .

No it's not simple I'm afraid or everyone would be doing it. There comes a point at which we've got to say that maybe it isn't the manager's fault, and that other things need to be sorted out to give the manager a fighting chance of getting the club to consistently punch above it's weight.

In the 5 years since Mowbray left the club we have had 4 'permanent' managers and another 4 caretakers. One of those managers, who was apparently not good enough for us, is now an international manager.

Tell me again how changing a manager yet again is guaranteed to make the slightest difference?

[blackpoolhibs]

Are you saying if we spend more we automatically win games or that as we outspend the others we should automatically beat them? Does it really work this way?

I refer you to my previous posts - see in particluar the first line of 208. All recent managers and the Board have wasted funds. Moreover, they have wasted the opportunity presented by Mowbray's side, SUABC and silverware in 2007 as since then we have been on a slippery slope.

Cash gives one options. It presents opportunities. Clearly, it is not unlimited and has not been used wisely.

Such, our cash and I&E positions are in a poor state.

The Board do not appear to be in charge of our destiny (as the fans have walked and more keep walking).

It will take a long time for them to return IMHO. The baw is burst.

No you are, you would rather we had not built the stand, and spent it on the team. That does not guarantee us anything. And those players could get injured, lose form, or even leave for nowt.

You keep conveniently ignoring the questions i have asked you many times, how much more should we be paying above the amount we currently pay more than our immediate competitors? and how do they manage it?

[IWasThere2016]

No you are, you would rather we had not built the stand, and spent it on the team. That does not guarantee us anything. And those players could get injured, lose form, or even leave for nowt.

You keep conveniently ignoring the questions i have asked you many times, how much more should we be paying above the amount we currently pay more than our immediate competitors? and how do they manage it?

Not spending it on the team has served us so well of course.

I love how you constantly avoid ansswering questions - see. My two above - and expect answers.

What's your answer? Bear in mind I questioned the logic in the stand, the perceived value of East Mains (before both were built) and I dispute spending more guarantees anything and have stated repeated managers have wasted money.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not spending it on the team has served us so well of course.

I love how you constantly avoid ansswering questions - see. My two above - and expect answers.

What's your answer? Bear in mind I questioned the logic in the stand, the perceived value of East Mains (before both were built) and I dispute spending more guarantees anything and have stated repeated managers have wasted money.

What would you have done with the money spent on the new stand?

[Northernhibee]

For me the only question that matters is what do we need to do to become a club that consistently punches above its weight?

If you can explain to me how sacking Calderwood will guarantee this this then I'll be there on the picket line with you. :wink:

Okay.

Colin Calderwood has had two transfer windows to get his team in place. He's gotten rid of the players he had identified as deadwood and brought in a ton of new players - a lot of whom have been very disappointing.

He's lead the likes of Riordan, Zemmama, Miller, O'Connor, Sproule, Griffiths, Stack, Murray, Palsson, Booth, Agogo, Sodje - all good players and yet he has a win ratio of less than 25% - he hasn't even won one in for games.

You can stand by a dud all you like hoping he'll turn into a diamond, but CC has had time and opportunity and squandered both.

Statistically and logically he is not the man for the job.

[IWasThere2016]

What would you have done with the money spent on the new stand?

Prioritised the team and building the fan base.

We can only produce decent football, make money, reverse the trading losses via a decent team not a new stand. That boat has sailed, and time will show it was the wrong thing to do.

Your plan?

[Northernhibee]

Okay.

Colin Calderwood has had two transfer windows to get his team in place. He's gotten rid of the players he had identified as deadwood and brought in a ton of new players - a lot of whom have been very disappointing.

He's lead the likes of Riordan, Zemmama, Miller, O'Connor, Sproule, Griffiths, Stack, Murray, Palsson, Booth, Agogo, Sodje - all good players and yet he has a win ratio of less than 25% - he hasn't even won one in for games.

You can stand by a dud all you like hoping he'll turn into a diamond, but CC has had time and opportunity and squandered both.

Statistically and logically he is not the man for the job.

Also, under CC's leadership, attendance at games has dropped dramatically.

Furthermore, a comparable situation from the past would be the tenure of Jim Duffy, who we gave too much time and as a result we were relegated, costing the club a ton of money.

So I update myself, statistically, logically, financially and historically CC is not fit to be Hibernian manager.

[hibs0666]

Okay.

Colin Calderwood has had two transfer windows to get his team in place. He's gotten rid of the players he had identified as deadwood and brought in a ton of new players - a lot of whom have been very disappointing.

He's lead the likes of Riordan, Zemmama, Miller, O'Connor, Sproule, Griffiths, Stack, Murray, Palsson, Booth, Agogo, Sodje - all good players and yet he has a win ratio of less than 25% - he hasn't even won one in for games.

You can stand by a dud all you like hoping he'll turn into a diamond, but CC has had time and opportunity and squandered both.

Statistically and logically he is not the man for the job.

Again, you're focusing on changing the manager as if it will make the difference.

We tried that with Collins.
We tried that with Mixu.
We tried that with Hughes.

There is no quick fix mate. No magic wand. No miracles. It will take patience and hard graft to get Hibs winning again - nothing else.

[Northernhibee]

Again, you're focusing on changing the manager as if it will make the difference.

We tried that with Collins.
We tried that with Mixu.
We tried that with Hughes.

There is no quick fix mate. No magic wand. No miracles. It will take patience and hard graft to get Hibs winning again - nothing else.

What good will sticking with CC bring? Statistically, logically, financially and looking at past history he is a disaster for the club, do you really want to see Hibernian play first division football? That's where CC is leading us!

Have you actually watched our football under him? It's ****ing horrific!

Matter of fact, check out his record at Forest as well - it was just as hideous there as well!

Honestly, what is it you see in CC?

[hibs0666]

What good will sticking with CC bring? Statistically, logically, financially and looking at past history he is a disaster for the club, do you really want to see Hibernian play first division football? That's where CC is leading us!

Have you actually watched our football under him? It's ****ing horrific!

Matter of fact, check out his record at Forest as well - it was just as hideous there as well!

Honestly, what is it you see in CC?

I'm not sure you are getting my point. Statistically, financially and looking at past history, changing managers does not make the slightest bit difference to Hibs performance.

[Northernhibee]

I'm not sure you are getting my point. Statistically, financially and looking at past history, changing managers does not make the slightest bit difference to Hibs performance.

I think you are missing my point as well.

WE COULD STICK WITH CC FOR TWENTY YEARS AND HE'D STILL ACHIEVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

He's a dud! Useless! Awful! Statistically the second worst manager in Hibernian history and there arguments to say the absolute worst!

We need someone who can motivate the team - CC has shown he can't do that! We need someone to spot where the changes need made and implement them there and then - CC hasn't done that! We need to get in players with something to prove and will give a toss for the jersey - CC hasn't done that!

We need someone to tick the above boxes, and CC scores a great big zero points out of three (ironic, seeing as how his football team regularly does the same).


It's that or pretend that everything's fine, watch CC lead us to division 1 but it's all okay because we've stuck with the same pathetic, demotivating, tactically inept loser instead of looking for a manager with fresh ideas, drive, passion, a winning mentality and the ability to take us to a top six finish.

To accept being 1pt from the bottom of the table when we were fairly fluky in our draw against Dundee Utd and our win against Inverness isn't being a Hibee. A true Hibee wants the best for their team, a true Hibee expects to see the team where they deserve to be and isn't going to accept 10th in the ****ing SPL after being humiliated by St Mirren, Kilmarnock, the Yams.

[blackpoolhibs]

Prioritised the team and building the fan base.

We can only produce decent football, make money, reverse the trading losses via a decent team not a new stand. That boat has sailed, and time will show it was the wrong thing to do.

Your plan?

Prioritising the team, is that not just spending more money on players. So your answer is to spend more money.

W currently do spend more than most, yet we are poor. Your man Calderwood couldn't spot a ride in a barrel of phannies, yet if we gave him more money it would all magically be much better. Yet those at the other side of town have been doing this for how long, and remind me just how many trophies they have won compared to us, and how much debt are they in?

Have their crowds been built up on that success of spending all the dosh they dont have, are they playing to sell out crowds and making money?

As much as we'd all like to spend more than we have, we have gone about things right off the park with building the new stand. A team that played as well as Motherwell did on Saturday playing in green and white would have most people happy at hibs, and thats done on a fraction of what you want to spend.

A decent manager is whats needed, not your way of spend spend spend.

[steakbake]

I don't think it is anything to do with the quality of players. Tell me which Motherwell, St Mirren, Hearts etc players would walk into our squad? I don't think any of this comes down to having poor players.

It's too easy to say 'it's because we're pish'. It lets people off the hook. In fact if i thought our players were rubbish, I wouldnt be as disappointed or as frustrated as I am. It's because we've actually got decent players in our squad that makes this whole situation so annoying.

We're no good because we have players being played out of position, not pushing up when they have to, ball-watching instead of watching runs, being unaware of gaps and spaces, they also don't play with any degree of creativity or confidence and the movement for passing is slow, unimaginative and predictable. We are easily outplayed because we can be second-guessed all the time. There is also no leadership in the team. Who was even the captain on Saturday. I assume Murray but that's a guess, not because there appeared to be a leader of the lads on the pitch.

Much of these things, I'd suggest, are instilled by effective use of the players, good tactics, training, coaching and awareness. In different hands, I reckon we could be a formidable opponent to any team.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think it is anything to do with the quality of players. Tell me which Motherwell, St Mirren, Hearts etc players would walk into our squad? I don't think any of this comes down to having poor players.

It's too easy to say 'it's because we're pish'. It lets people off the hook. In fact if i thought our players were rubbish, I wouldnt be as disappointed or as frustrated as I am. It's because we've actually got decent players in our squad that makes this whole situation so annoying.

We're no good because we have players being played out of position, not pushing up when they have to, ball-watching instead of watching runs, being unaware of gaps and spaces, they also don't play with any degree of creativity or confidence and the movement for passing is slow, unimaginative and predictable. We are easily outplayed because we can be second-guessed all the time. There is also no leadership in the team. Who was even the captain on Saturday. I assume Murray but that's a guess, not because there appeared to be a leader of the lads on the pitch.

Much of these things, I'd suggest, are instilled by effective use of the players, good tactics, training, coaching and awareness. In different hands, I reckon we could be a formidable opponent to any team.

I disagree, i think we do have a bad team. Just take Saturdays game. I'd take every one of their players over ours. Normally i'd say bar O'Conner, but he was pish for a change. They pass the ball, look for space, chase and harry better, and basically are just better players imo. I wonder if you asked this question on the Motherwell board, how many of our lot would they want from us?

I agree a decent manager might make them better, harder to beat maybe. But i dont see many players in that squad, any new man will want to keep for long.

[hibs0666]

I think you are missing my point as well.

WE COULD STICK WITH CC FOR TWENTY YEARS AND HE'D STILL ACHIEVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

He's a dud! Useless! Awful! Statistically the second worst manager in Hibernian history and there arguments to say the absolute worst!

We need someone who can motivate the team - CC has shown he can't do that! We need someone to spot where the changes need made and implement them there and then - CC hasn't done that! We need to get in players with something to prove and will give a toss for the jersey - CC hasn't done that!

We need someone to tick the above boxes, and CC scores a great big zero points out of three (ironic, seeing as how his football team regularly does the same).


It's that or pretend that everything's fine, watch CC lead us to division 1 but it's all okay because we've stuck with the same pathetic, demotivating, tactically inept loser instead of looking for a manager with fresh ideas, drive, passion, a winning mentality and the ability to take us to a top six finish.

To accept being 1pt from the bottom of the table when we were fairly fluky in our draw against Dundee Utd and our win against Inverness isn't being a Hibee. A true Hibee wants the best for their team, a true Hibee expects to see the team where they deserve to be and isn't going to accept 10th in the ****ing SPL after being humiliated by St Mirren, Kilmarnock, the Yams.



I accept the problem I just think your solution of changing the manager yet again will not make the difference that you hope it will.

[IWasThere2016]

Prioritising the team, is that not just spending more money on players. So your answer is to spend more money.

W currently do spend more than most, yet we are poor. Your man Calderwood couldn't spot a ride in a barrel of phannies, yet if we gave him more money it would all magically be much better. Yet those at the other side of town have been doing this for how long, and remind me just how many trophies they have won compared to us, and how much debt are they in?

Have their crowds been built up on that success of spending all the dosh they dont have, are they playing to sell out crowds and making money?

As much as we'd all like to spend more than we have, we have gone about things right off the park with building the new stand. A team that played as well as Motherwell did on Saturday playing in green and white would have most people happy at hibs, and thats done on a fraction of what you want to spend.

A decent manager is whats needed, not your way of spend spend spend.

:faf: What do I want to spend spend spend exactly?

Where do we get this manager?

RP's interviewed how many and repeatedly failed .. Where is this manager exactly?