Satellite TV Ruling/Sky lose Murphy case (merged)

[H18sry]

Sky have been humped by courts.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15162241

[down-the-slope]

Pub Landlady wins appealto use Greek decoder......big implications :greengrin

[down-the-slope]

A pub landlady has won the latest stage of her fight to air Premier League games using a foreign TV decoder.
Karen Murphy had to pay nearly £8,000 in fines and costs for using a cheaper Greek decoder in her Portsmouth pub to bypass controls over match screening.
But she took her case to the European Court of Justice.
The ECJ now says national laws which prohibit the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards are contrary to the freedom to provide services.
The decision could trigger a major shake-up for the Premier League and its current exclusive agreements with Sky Sports and ESPN.

[bod]

but, could sky just not sell their rights to the greeks then ?
im sure theyll find a way round it.

[down-the-slope]

should add that my understanding is that the ECJ is then taken back to UK High court who have to decide what to do in light of this judgement......

rarely will state courts go against such a judgement though..

You can bet SKY are looking hard at how to protect their cash...my guess...they will hike costs to other euro countries so that their costs go up and they find it more difficult to offer cheaper....or they buy up small euro brodcaster to expand their business...SKY Europe or such like.......

[Gettin' Auld]

I assume they'll appeal the decision and it'll drag on for years?

[green&left]

Don't think Sky own the rights. The Premier League will? Surely Sky only own the rights to broadcast in the UK? And i'm not too sure the Greeks, Albanians, Yanks etc will want to pay the same billions a Sky do for them. Either way, this ruling and advances in internet streaming, fingers crossed Sky Sports and the English Premier League are donald ducked.

[down-the-slope]

but, could sky just not sell their rights to the greeks then ?
im sure theyll find a way round it.

EPL do....but at the moment they do it as if it a different seperate market....remember it was origionally called 'the common market'...that was for a reason even if all the implications were not understood and technology did not then exists to make crossing state boundaries so easy...

Same judgement will affect film rights distrabution etc...we get ripped off in Britain so its a good judgement that tries to rectify it....

[Barney McGrew]

This could be a real kick in the teeth for Sky. For years they've been fleecing pubs and clubs and coming down hard on anyone using a foreign system for a fraction of the cost. It also sets the precedent for domestic customers, so there's nothing to stop a foreign provider offering a cheap alternative for people to use legally in their homes now.

Excellent news.

[down-the-slope]

I assume they'll appeal the decision and it'll drag on for years?

yup but any if they finally lost it would have consequences back to origional judgement....individuals / large pub chains could seek compensation for paying 'illegally high' costs....:greengrin

[down-the-slope]

This could be a real kick in the teeth for Sky. For years they've been fleecing pubs and clubs and coming down hard on anyone using a foreign system for a fraction of the cost. It also sets the precedent for domestic customers, so there's nothing to stop a foreign provider offering a cheap alternative for people to use legally in their homes now.

Excellent news.

That would be my understanding....however the rights holder (EPL) will seek to protect its cash cow (SKY/UK customers) by changing the way it sells its rights...

The worst outcome would be that EPL chooses to sell rights to Europe in one lump....SKY wins and then resells to parts of Europe it does not want to service itself in a way that makes circumventing its UK charging....or just expands to cover all major EURO markets...:rolleyes:

Remember after UK its Aisia that is the real money for EPL

[hibs0666]

That would be my understanding....however the rights holder (EPL) will seek to protect its cash cow (SKY/UK customers) by changing the way it sells its rights...

The worst outcome would be that EPL chooses to sell rights to Europe in one lump....SKY wins and then resells to parts of Europe it does not want to service itself in a way that makes circumventing its UK charging....or just expands to cover all major EURO markets...:rolleyes:

Remember after UK its Aisia that is the real money for EPL

In acting in that manner EPL/Sky would rightly be accused of cartel behaviour - big big wonga in fines when found guilty.

[Barney McGrew]

The worst outcome would be that EPL chooses to sell rights to Europe in one lump....SKY wins and then resells to parts of Europe it does not want to service itself in a way that makes circumventing its UK charging....or just expands to cover all major EURO markets...:rolleyes:

But there's now nothing to stop someone buying a card from one of those countries and using it here any more. And as hibs0666 points out above, they can't hold the monopoly as that would also be against European law.

The crows are coming home to roost for Sky and it's about time since they've been overcharging for donkeys. As an example, the average pub in Edinburgh will probably pay in the region of £1500-£1800 a MONTH plus VAT for Sky, but could get the foreign alternative for around a fifth of that cost. The difference is staggering.

[ScottB]

I really suspect this will change little, there's nothing to stop the current gentleman's agreement style relationship between Sky and ESPN buying up all the European rights and fixing the price across the continent, or the EPL jacking up the price it sells to European broadcasters, after all, if it's one market, they will simply say it is fair to have one price, and it certainly won't be the cheap end.

The EPL will protect the vast amount of money it makes in the UK from TV rights, even if it means losing deals in Europe.

[IWasThere2016]

But there's now nothing to stop someone buying a card from one of those countries and using it here any more. And as hibs0666 points out above, they can't hold the monopoly as that would also be against European law.

The crows are coming home to roost for Sky and it's about time since they've been overcharging for donkeys. As an example, the average pub in Edinburgh will probably pay in the region of £1500-£1800 a MONTH plus VAT for Sky, but could get the foreign alternative for around a fifth of that cost. The difference is staggering.

My understanding is there are domestic and business terms from SKY and the latter is c.£350 pcm

[BoltonHibee]

My understanding is there are domestic and business terms from SKY and the latter is c.£350 pcm

Small pub that I frequent now and again pay £2k per month for Sky Sports. They have a pint pot showing in the bottom right of the screen

[Gus Fring]

The amount a business pays for Sky is determined by the businesses annual turnover.

[poolman]

The amount a business pays for Sky is determined by the businesses annual turnover.


I think it's by the rateable value of the premises

[Gus Fring]

I think it's by the rateable value of the premises

Yup sorry your right

[invisible man]

I think it's by the rateable value of the premises

Correct. Hibs club pays £1250 + vat per month.

[poolman]

Yup sorry your right


:agree: I know the Guy who has the Oxford bar in the NewTown and while it's a popular bar it's absolutely tiny but being in the lacation it is ( Young Street ) his rates are sky high, consequently he had to get rid of Sky as it just wasn't paying

[Hibee87]

Sky also charge businesses per square foot of viewing area in the pub i think it is dependant on location as well as to how much they charge PSF and im also sure if you have a sky box in a restuarant where you eat its lower than price for the bar area.... i may be talking rubbish here but that was my brief understanding when i worked for sky (which was only 3 months as a temp).... I used to process the companys that paid for sky sub by cheque and it varied from bowling clubs circa 500 pound to 5 thousand pound and larger organisations (chains of pubs) up to 30 40 g a month plus. crazy crazy money

as someone said if there is a pint glass on the bottom of the screen then this indicated they have legally (well not anymore by todays court ruling) have paid for sky. So if you are in a public place that has sky but no pint glass the nthey are using other means to get it somthing of which sky would send round spies to check out.

I also know of a pub whcih had a house upstairs and they ran a wire down form the house to the pub for the sky needless to say sky found out and the fines were very very hefty

[down-the-slope]

In acting in that manner EPL/Sky would rightly be accused of cartel behaviour - big big wonga in fines when found guilty.

Nope thats not correct - as long as there was an open auction of rights in various 'packages' then that covers competition - reality is that SKY would win those as its crucial to its business model and we could end up with Euro version of what we have now..ESPN with rights but having to use SKY platform for boradcast.......

Most interesting is wether euro sat companies try and sell decoders NOW to UK market before the next deal is negotiated which is a way off yet....

[down-the-slope]

Sky also charge businesses per square foot of viewing area in the pub i think it is dependant on location as well as to how much they charge PSF and im also sure if you have a sky box in a restuarant where you eat its lower than price for the bar area.... i may be talking rubbish here but that was my brief understanding when i worked for sky (which was only 3 months as a temp).... I used to process the companys that paid for sky sub by cheque and it varied from bowling clubs circa 500 pound to 5 thousand pound and larger organisations (chains of pubs) up to 30 40 g a month plus. crazy crazy money

as someone said if there is a pint glass on the bottom of the screen then this indicated they have legally (well not anymore by todays court ruling) have paid for sky. So if you are in a public place that has sky but no pint glass the nthey are using other means to get it somthing of which sky would send round spies to check out.

I also know of a pub whcih had a house upstairs and they ran a wire down form the house to the pub for the sky needless to say sky found out and the fines were very very hefty

And you can be sure they will seek to recover this and court cost etc tec now after judgment.....SKY share price will be interesting after this :greengrin

[hibs0666]

Nope thats not correct - as long as there was an open auction of rights in various 'packages' then that covers competition - reality is that SKY would win those as its crucial to its business model and we could end up with Euro version of what we have now..ESPN with rights but having to use SKY platform for boradcast.......


I agree, but that is different from 'selling' all rights in one lump to one distributor.

[hibs0666]

Most interesting is wether euro sat companies try and sell decoders NOW to UK market before the next deal is negotiated which is a way off yet....

If they don't then just watch out for my e-bay shop going live soon. :wink:

[down-the-slope]

I agree, but that is different from 'selling' all rights in one lump to one distributor.

:agree: your correct - first time i did not make clear that i was meaning the smoke and mirrors they have already done here will be repeated if they think they can get away with it (legally or otherwise:wink:)...whch is in effect the same outcome....

still up the Wee man (or medium sized landlady)

[Hibrandenburg]

Nope thats not correct - as long as there was an open auction of rights in various 'packages' then that covers competition - reality is that SKY would win those as its crucial to its business model and we could end up with Euro version of what we have now..ESPN with rights but having to use SKY platform for boradcast.......

Most interesting is wether euro sat companies try and sell decoders NOW to UK market before the next deal is negotiated which is a way off yet....


On a positive note, this must mean that ex-pats can now legally subscribe to Sky?

[down-the-slope]

On a positive note, this must mean that ex-pats can now legally subscribe to Sky?

presumably...if you want to pay £75-£100 per month for the 'privelage'....

[down-the-slope]

negative to instant positives...if every pub round ER gets Euro sat's in .....how many more will stay in the pub and watch Live 3pm EPL rather than go to ER.....(assuming we ever play at 3pm on a saturday of course:rolleyes:)

[mglancy23]

negative to instant positives...if every pub round ER gets Euro sat's in .....how many more will stay in the pub and watch Live 3pm EPL rather than go to ER.....(assuming we ever play at 3pm on a saturday of course:rolleyes:)

its still illegal for pubs to show live football at 15:00, regardless of sky losing out today or not

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I know nowt about these things, im happy as long as i get the services i pay for! Does this mean i could cancel Sky Sports via Virgin, buy a foreign card for my virgin box and still receive the pictures?

[Barney McGrew]

My understanding is there are domestic and business terms from SKY and the latter is c.£350 pcm

You're a million miles away TQM - even the smallest pub I know of in the back of beyond pays at least £800 a month.

There are places that get a reduced rate if they have letting rooms, that might be what you're getting confused with. Sky base their rates around the rateable value of a premises and because Scottish Rateable values are higher than their English counterparts we pay higher on average up here too.

[down-the-slope]

its still illegal for pubs to show live football at 15:00, regardless of sky losing out today or not

No - thats the whole point


I know nowt about these things, im happy as long as i get the services i pay for! Does this mean i could cancel Sky Sports via Virgin, buy a foreign card for my virgin box and still receive the pictures?

No..the box is virgin and you have cable not sat..

You need a sat receiver that accepts the cards of another euro country who's services you choose to buy.....

[down-the-slope]

the reason that there are 12pm KO's in EPL is due to 7/8 hour time difference with Asia...this means that 12pm games are shown live there at 9/10pm at night...watched these in hotels when jetlagged...surreal...

Although this is a whole other issue, the fact that broadcasts are being made like this is why so much online streaming is possible.....

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

No - thats the whole pointNo..the box is virgin and you have cable not sat..You need a sat receiver that accepts the cards of another euro country who's services you choose to buy..... Very true, too busy getting excited financially instead of thinking it out in sensible manner!

[overdrive]

No - thats the whole point


I think mglancy is correct. There is a blackout on 3pm kick offs being shown live on tv. Totally separate to the case here.

[down-the-slope]

I think mglancy is correct. There is a blackout on 3pm kick offs being shown live on tv. Totally separate to the case here.

:rolleyes: this judgement says thats not legal

[overdrive]

:rolleyes: this judgement says thats not legal

Does it? If it does I can't see it. it is about viewing on a foreign decoder. in any case it is still technically illegal as it has not yet been enacted into UK law.