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R'Albin
26-09-2011, 09:11 AM
Someone else mentioned this on another thread, does anyone else think that a loan to a division 1 or 2 team for a couple of months would maybe help him? I think it would be good for building his confidence, he would be allowed more freedom to play because the opposition wouldn't be as good. IMO He has the talent he just needs a major confidence boost.

Thoughts?

Gatecrasher
26-09-2011, 09:27 AM
Someone else mentioned this on another thread, does anyone else think that a loan to a division 1 or 2 team for a couple of months would maybe help him? I think it would be good for building his confidence, he would be allowed more freedom to play because the opposition wouldn't be as good. IMO He has the talent he just needs a major confidence boost.

Thoughts?

I agree, I think he is a better player than his current form suggests and would benefit from some time away from the club.

Fifer
26-09-2011, 09:28 AM
[QUOTE=R'Albin;2929570]Someone else mentioned this on another thread, does anyone else think that a loan to a division 1 or 2 team for a couple of months would maybe help him? I think it would be good for building his confidence, he would be allowed more freedom to play because the opposition wouldn't be as good. IMO He has the talent he just needs a major confidence boost.

Let's give him a confidence boost, back backing him and the rest of the team, instead of getting of on their backs after any little mistake. We are meant to be Supporters let's support.:flag:

RIP
26-09-2011, 09:53 AM
Let's give him a confidence boost, back backing him and the rest of the team, instead of getting of on their backs after any little mistake. We are meant to be Supporters let's support.:flag:

:top marks

Noble sentiments about backing players and team

Unfortunately this doesn't apply to David's situation. On the ball D isn't a bad player although probably one of the slowest for his age I've seen at Hibs in a long time. Completely unable to go round his man. His forward runs are his strong point but passing, first touch and decision-making can be woeful at times.

Defensively is where he is weakest. Tackling appears to consist of grabbing opponents by the arms and bundling them over. When he is not doing that he is ball-watching, backing off - as if he doesn't know how to get tight or get a foot in. However by far his weakest point is positional awareness and lack of fitness. Every time he plays in front of Towell poor Ritchie ends up with 2 men on him with Spoony stranded up the park, jogging back or wandering aimlessly around. When towell attacks, Spoony is generally hidden behind an opposition player instead of making a run into space.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he didn't reappear for the 2nd half on Saturday is because he had Towell's right boot wedged firmly up his erchie

leither17
26-09-2011, 09:54 AM
Wasn't at the game on sat how did he play he set up the 1st

ancient hibee
26-09-2011, 10:14 AM
Wasn't at the game on sat how did he play he set up the 1st

Eh? For who?

bawheid
26-09-2011, 10:14 AM
Eh? For who?

Exactly! He set up United's first by completely losing John Rankin.

SneakersO'Toole
26-09-2011, 10:28 AM
:top marks

Noble sentiments about backing players and team

Unfortunately this doesn't apply to David's situation. On the ball D isn't a bad player although probably one of the slowest for his age I've seen at Hibs in a long time. Completely unable to go round his man. His forward runs are his strong point but passing, first touch and decision-making can be woeful at times.

Defensively is where he is weakest. Tackling appears to consist of grabbing opponents by the arms and bundling them over. When he is not doing that he is ball-watching, backing off - as if he doesn't know how to get tight or get a foot in. However by far his weakest point is positional awareness and lack of fitness. Every time he plays in front of Towell poor Ritchie ends up with 2 men on him with Spoony stranded up the park, jogging back or wandering aimlessly around. When towell attacks, Spoony is generally hidden behind an opposition player instead of making a run into space.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he didn't reappear for the 2nd half on Saturday is because he had Towell's right boot wedged firmly up his erchie

Your post above highlights well why IMO, Wotherspoon is not good enough for SPL level. A loan spell in a lower division may serve a purpose but I have my doubts.

I honestly couldn't name one outstanding attribute that he brings to the team. Yes he is young but for 18months now he has been a passenger in almost every game. Some popole will say he lacks confidence but you don't need confidence to have satisfactory fitness levels. You don't need confidence to track runners or mark opposition players. You don't need confidence to be able to control a ball and pass to a hibs player 10 yards away.

He lacks basic, fundamental skills for this level and until he can rectify this I fear he will become another Hibs youngster who fails to live up to his promise.

Dashing Bob S
26-09-2011, 10:34 AM
Your post above highlights well why IMO, Wotherspoon is not good enough for SPL level. A loan spell in a lower division may serve a purpose but I have my doubts.

I honestly couldn't name one outstanding attribute that he brings to the team. Yes he is young but for 18months now he has been a passenger in almost every game. Some popole will say he lacks confidence but you don't need confidence to have satisfactory fitness levels. You don't need confidence to track runners or mark opposition players. You don't need confidence to be able to control a ball and pass to a hibs player 10 yards away.

He lacks basic, fundamental skills for this level and until he can rectify this I fear he will become another Hibs youngster who fails to live up to his promise.

Yawn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBQvgKZL5QQ

millarco
26-09-2011, 10:40 AM
Eh? For who?

To be fair the BBC match report gave Wotherspoon credit for the through ball to O'Connor. Him and Agogo are so alike it's obviously difficult to tell who's who.

SneakersO'Toole
26-09-2011, 10:51 AM
Yawn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBQvgKZL5QQ

Brilliant. 5 seconds of skill versus 18months of consistently dismal performances.

Wow. You destroyed me there Bob.

hibsbollah
26-09-2011, 10:51 AM
Your post above highlights well why IMO, Wotherspoon is not good enough for SPL level. A loan spell in a lower division may serve a purpose but I have my doubts.

I honestly couldn't name one outstanding attribute that he brings to the team. Yes he is young but for 18months now he has been a passenger in almost every game. Some popole will say he lacks confidence but you don't need confidence to have satisfactory fitness levels. You don't need confidence to track runners or mark opposition players. You don't need confidence to be able to control a ball and pass to a hibs player 10 yards away.

He lacks basic, fundamental skills for this level and until he can rectify this I fear he will become another Hibs youngster who fails to live up to his promise.

Bob's posted the drag-back on gingerbaws Stewart which i was about to do...Another example of what hes capable of is the swerving 30 yard volley which i will never understand to this day how Boruc saved.
Wotherspoon was an absolute revelation for at least a dozen games at the end of Mixu's tenure. Something has gone wrong with him in the meantime, and i doubt anyone on this board has the answers to why, but saying he hasnt the 'fundamental skills' is, im afraid to say, baws.

Edit- for what its worth i agree with the OP that a loan spell might be just what he needs.

SneakersO'Toole
26-09-2011, 10:57 AM
He didn't play under Mixu for a start.

He can't pass, can't tackle, can't last more than 45mins in a game without blowing out his behind. Doesn't track back or mark opposition players.

I could go on and on.

Can someone tell me please what DW position is and attributes he brings to that position?

lucky
26-09-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't think he is good enough. His fitness is very poor. John Rankin left him time time again. He seems totally lost. I doubt he is going to make it in the SPL. But it might do him some good to go away and play at a lower level for a while.

hibsbollah
26-09-2011, 11:00 AM
He didn't play under Mixu for a start.

He can't pass, can't tackle, can't last more than 45mins in a game without blowing out his behind. Doesn't track back or mark opposition players.

I could go on and on.

Can someone tell me please what DW position is and attributes he brings to that position?

Well Hughes then, it makes no difference. You dont play that many games that well without having something in your locker. Unless there is a Spoony doppleganger.

brydekirk
26-09-2011, 11:51 AM
I always hope the best for the young guys coming up from the acadamy, spoony imo is going backwards. Does anyonee think the young ones are gettiing spoiled at east mains ? Soomething is wrong ssomewhere, not fit, huffy attitude and lazy and thats just the start.

Jack
26-09-2011, 11:52 AM
There's talent there but we’ve just not seen it for a while.

My observation is that after the first tackle on him, or even near him, he picks up a mysterious injury that niggles and obsesses him for the rest of the game.

I also think he might be being talked out of his game by the opposition. He looks genuinely worried about the day that never came!

Has he got a girlfriend? He maybe just needs a good kiss :wink: to make feel good about himself!

DaveF
26-09-2011, 12:01 PM
I'm a big fan of Wotherspoon and believe he does have the ability, but right now he should be nowhere near the 1st team for many of the reasons stated above.

A loan spell or simply just a seat on the sidelines to let him re-assess is what's needed and I really hope he isn't in the line up for wednesday.

patlowe
26-09-2011, 12:13 PM
I'm pretty surprised people are questioning Wotherspoon's basic ability as I'd imagine he's technically one of the most gifted players at the club. However, he should not be in the side at the moment as he's suffering a serious, extended loss of confidence and needs to be coached back to his best. I agree that he's terrible defensively though.

blackpoolhibs
26-09-2011, 12:48 PM
He's a player who rarely let us down playing right back. It's become a position he never gets to play though, with clueless playing him anywhere but. There is a guy struggling for form, and the manager changes his position every week.

JimBHibees
26-09-2011, 12:56 PM
He's a player who rarely let us down playing right back. It's become a position he never gets to play though, with clueless playing him anywhere but. There is a guy struggling for form, and the manager changes his position every week.

Totally agree he is chopped and changed most weeks, right mid, left mid, central. He either needs to be dropped or played in one position for a number of games.

Why do we not have a left sided midfielder? We have wasted Spoony out there and now appear to be wanting Ivan to play out there where he is also palpably uncomfortable also.

Andy74
26-09-2011, 01:42 PM
He's a player who rarely let us down playing right back. It's become a position he never gets to play though, with clueless playing him anywhere but. There is a guy struggling for form, and the manager changes his position every week.

Part of a back four that started the season with our best defensive record in decades up until that Christmas when Bamba then went off to the ANC.

Confuses me when peple say he is never a right back when he played his only good games for us there.

The bits of skill and things people have posted came from him coming from the right back position. I think he seems far better with the game in front of him like that.

Anyway, it's perhaps not confidence he is lacking but just that he isn't that good in the positions he is being asked to play.

jacomo
26-09-2011, 02:03 PM
Part of a back four that started the season with our best defensive record in decades up until that Christmas when Bamba then went off to the ANC.

Confuses me when peple say he is never a right back when he played his only good games for us there.

The bits of skill and things people have posted came from him coming from the right back position. I think he seems far better with the game in front of him like that.

Anyway, it's perhaps not confidence he is lacking but just that he isn't that good in the positions he is being asked to play.

Plenty of people liked to say that Whittaker was "never a right back" until the day he left... and showed us all what we were missing.

Future17
26-09-2011, 02:03 PM
Someone else mentioned this on another thread, does anyone else think that a loan to a division 1 or 2 team for a couple of months would maybe help him? I think it would be good for building his confidence, he would be allowed more freedom to play because the opposition wouldn't be as good. IMO He has the talent he just needs a major confidence boost.

Thoughts?

Think you're probably referring to my contribution to the Player Ratings thread from Saturday's game and I think you're right.

He needs a run of games away from Easter Road to gain confidence and rediscover the form that made him so exciting to watch when he first came on the scene. Whilst he has looked poor for a while now and, as a result, he has obviously contributed towards our lack of success as a team, I think he has actually suffered more than any other player as a result of the mediocrity amongst the playing staff under Hughes and Calderwood.

We have a great reputation as a club for bringing through talented youngsters who are exciting to watch. That in turn helps us successfully recruit players at a young age when we contest with other Scottish and English clubs for their signature. It also helps put bums on seats at Easter Road, as most of take great pleasure in watching home-grown talent doing well for our club and, reluctantly, to balance the books when we sell them on.

However, with that success comes responsibilty. As a club - fans, Board, coaching staff and players - we must create an environment in which young players are supported to develop into effective first team players and beyond.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that exists at Easter Road at the moment as it did in the days when O’Connor, Riordan, Brown, Thomson, Whittaker, Fletcher etc first came through.

Wotherspoon’s apparent stagnation is a perfect example of this but there’s other evidence of it, including Booth’s disappointing start to the season and the lack of players who have made the step up in recent years despite success at youth level.

EDIT: I see Taggart has gone on loan to Stranraer.

SneakersO'Toole
26-09-2011, 02:29 PM
Well Hughes then, it makes no difference. You dont play that many games that well without having something in your locker. Unless there is a Spoony doppleganger.

By your theory then Lewis Stevenson, Ross Chisholm, Chris Hogg and Darren McCormack must all have something in their locker. Where are they now? I think it is clutching at straws bringing up pieces of skill that he showed over 2 years ago. That does not make him a good player now.

I think some people should wake and smell the coffee with Wotherspoon. For the last 18months and this season especially, he has been atrocious. Almost non-existant in a poor Hibs side. Many people say they rate him yet wouldn't have him start in a hibs team that is currently experiencing a run of form akin the Jim Duffy era.

I'll ask again, what is his position?

Right midfield? No pace, can't beat a man and terrible distribution.

Centre midfield? Fitness, work rate and tacking would all be a huge issue here.

Right back? Again, defensively he is terrible at times. Not enough awareness, anticipation or concentration.

He is the classic 'doesn't have a position' player.

I have absolutely nothing against the guy and appreciate that he is still young but performances don't lie. Especially over a 18month period. If Hibs had signed a player in Jan '10 transfer window and he had produced the performances Wotherpoon has up until now he would be getting dogs abuse from all angles.

I can already see the pattern here. He will turn into another Lewis Stevenson who showed promise at the start but for a combination of reasons failed to develop. You see it not just at Hibs but across Scottish Football all the time. Sometimes its the players fault, sometimes its the managers/clubs fault and sometimes its a mixture of both.

In Wotherspoon's case I think its both. It clearly hasn't helped him that A) Hughes burnt him out in his 1st season and then B) CC playing him in 3 or 4 different positions. That said, his inability to execute basic tasks on a football field consistently is un-acceptable - regardless of his confidence levels.

Time will tell what happens I suppose and I would love someone to prove me wrong and dredge this thread up again in 6-9months time. But for me its going to take drastic changes in both performances and his mental approach to the game for me to change my opinion.

hibsbollah
26-09-2011, 04:01 PM
By your theory then Lewis Stevenson, Ross Chisholm, Chris Hogg and Darren McCormack must all have something in their locker. Where are they now? I think it is clutching at straws bringing up pieces of skill that he showed over 2 years ago. That does not make him a good player now.

I think some people should wake and smell the coffee with Wotherspoon..


No, because none of the players you mention showed anywhere near DWs early promise. Stevenson i like personally but has played a handful of good games at left back and one at centre midfield. Chisholm? I never saw him play a single good 90 mins, although he was awfy good at pointing at opponents telling his teammates to mark them. Hogg? Cant compare the two, McCormack? Never had a run of games to show his youth level promise before his radgeness antics set in.

The rest of your post is basically describing how rubbish spoonys been playing, and 99% of folk would agree with that. But he clearly DOES have talent. Unless you missed about 4 months of Hibs games i cant see how that could be questioned.

R'Albin
26-09-2011, 04:11 PM
Think you're probably referring to my contribution to the Player Ratings thread from Saturday's game and I think you're right.

Yeah I think it was that:agree:




He needs a run of games away from Easter Road to gain confidence and rediscover the form that made him so exciting to watch when he first came on the scene. Whilst he has looked poor for a while now and, as a result, he has obviously contributed towards our lack of success as a team, I think he has actually suffered more than any other player as a result of the mediocrity amongst the playing staff under Hughes and Calderwood.

We have a great reputation as a club for bringing through talented youngsters who are exciting to watch. That in turn helps us successfully recruit players at a young age when we contest with other Scottish and English clubs for their signature. It also helps put bums on seats at Easter Road, as most of take great pleasure in watching home-grown talent doing well for our club and, reluctantly, to balance the books when we sell them on.

However, with that success comes responsibilty. As a club - fans, Board, coaching staff and players - we must create an environment in which young players are supported to develop into effective first team players and beyond.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that exists at Easter Road at the moment as it did in the days when O’Connor, Riordan, Brown, Thomson, Whittaker, Fletcher etc first came through.

Wotherspoon’s apparent stagnation is a perfect example of this but there’s other evidence of it, including Booth’s disappointing start to the season and the lack of players who have made the step up in recent years despite success at youth level.

EDIT: I see Taggart has gone on loan to Stranraer.

Also totally agree with this, and Murder jokes aside haven't people been saying that Taggart hasn't looked great for the u19s?

truehibernian
26-09-2011, 04:27 PM
In my opinion, you get the best from DW by allowing him to play his natural position, which in all his youth football was attacking centre mid, where he also did really well for the Scotland youth sides.

You have to also make alowances, as a team (and support) for his lack of defensive ability. He is not a great defender.....that includes defensive duties as a midfielder. That for me is where the likes of Palsson and Scott come into play to cover for this.

That said, DW's tracking and positional awareness on the pitch recently has been poor. But he is a terrific young player when confidence is good.

BB was going off his nut at him the last two games apparently due to his ' switching off' and not working hard enough defensively. That could see a better player emerging.....he looks like he needs the cotton wool unwrapped, and some tough love. As do many of them. No coincidence for me that our lack of defeats has happened at the same time as BB being active on the touchline. Spoke with one of the youth coaches today and he was saying that after hearing him give it laldy, you would run through walls for him. On Saturday he was giving the midfield a roasting for not getting the ball moving forward quick enough, words to the effect ' you don't score fae the ******* halfway line, get it ******* forward' !! Also said BB wouldn't receive many Christmas cards from fourth officials !

BoltonHibee
26-09-2011, 04:36 PM
He's a player who rarely let us down playing right back. It's become a position he never gets to play though, with clueless playing him anywhere but. There is a guy struggling for form, and the manager changes his position every week.

Yup, would play him at RB. Although he was fairly descent up top too :)

truehibernian
26-09-2011, 04:41 PM
One of his best performances I have seen was for Scotland U19's v England where he played off the strikers, attacking midfielder. He was by far the best player on the pitch, albeit we were beaten on the day.

A confident Wotherspoon, driving into the box from inside right is a lovely player to watch in full flow. Just don't see it often enough, and that's a confidence thing (as well as playing positions).

SneakersO'Toole
26-09-2011, 04:56 PM
No, because none of the players you mention showed anywhere near DWs early promise. Stevenson i like personally but has played a handful of good games at right back and one at centre midfield. Chisholm? I never saw him play a single good 90 mins, although he was awfy good at pointing at opponents telling his teammates to mark them. Hogg? Cant compare the two, McCormack? Never had a run of games to show his youth level promise before his radgeness antics set in.

The rest of your post is basically describing how rubbish spoonys been playing, and 99% of folk would agree with that. But he clearly DOES have talent. Unless you missed about 4 months of Hibs games i cant see how that could be questioned.

I have never been hugely enamoured with DW I will admit. I thought he looked decent for his age in what was a good team playing well. As soon as the going got tough around Feb '10 he was like everyone else - poor. Since then he has got progressively worse to the point where currently he is a total passenger at best.

Callum Booth certainly looked more promising than DW when he broke through last year and that was in a terrible Hibs team.

He quite clearly has some talent. My argument from the start however has been that he lacks basics attributes to a successful footballer in this league. Both physical and mental. If you think that 4-5months worth of decent performances is enough to prove you can handle it in the SPL then fine but I don't.

I have no idea why people think he should he be played midfield either. Has he played one good game anywhere in the midfield?

We'll agree to disagree on this. As I said time will tell but it wouldn't surprise one iota if we saw Wotherspoon turn out to be another Stevenson. Looked promising but failed to step up when it counted.

leither17
26-09-2011, 05:19 PM
Eh? For who? Moments later, O'Connor broke the deadlock, running on to a David Wotherspoon through ball and confidently rounding goalkeeper Dusan Pernis to slot home from a tight angle . .. That's from the bbc as I said I wasn't at the game and haven't seen the highlights my deepest apologies

Wotherspiniesta
26-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Here we go again.

Looks like we've found our new scapegoat for the season! Still a young lad with a lot to learn, but he's lost his confidence.

Still, I guess that means he lacks the basic fundamental skills to be an SPL player. :rolleyes:

FWIW, I think a spell on loan would do him good. But we're a bit short at RB/RM so I can't see it.

Albion Hibs
26-09-2011, 06:24 PM
I think dropping down a level would perhaps do more harm that good to Wotherspoons confidence. He has always struck me as someone that is perhaps a little over cocky as to his level of ability. I think his biggest problem is either a lack of a football brain or concentration, the later I think is the real issue.

Quite were his head is during some games I dont know, but I dont think playing in the vicinity of Palsson helps him. I have always said I think RB is his best position, he has a real lack of pace, however, he does have the ability to go by someone. I think that if he gets a run on a player he is far more dangerous, going from a standing start in midfield does not appear to work for him.

I think some time on the bench is probably the best option and a bit more committment from him and focus during training and of course games and fingers crossed he can begin to find the form he once showed. It is a shame that in the top flight of our football league we do not have a competitive reserve league, especially considering down south the womans game probably has reserve football. Whoever came up with that idea should be shot.

I do think we also need to remember that he showed ability over a short period within a season, it can be easy to build a player up in our minds, and then bring him down pretty quickly again. I dont honestly think we can say someone is a really good player until they have a decent second season under their belt. I am sure this vibe from the fans will also be something that is feeding into his performances.

Whoever is in charge of reserve football get the sodding league back in place, this arranging silly bounce matches is nothing short of a stretch on the resource of clubs and it is taking away the competitive, and meaningful platform that the game in this country, and the youth in this country need.

Albion Hibs
26-09-2011, 06:29 PM
Moments later, O'Connor broke the deadlock, running on to a David Wotherspoon through ball and confidently rounding goalkeeper Dusan Pernis to slot home from a tight angle . .. That's from the bbc as I said I wasn't at the game and haven't seen the highlights my deepest apologies

No need to apologies, there was someone that entered their player ratings for the game using what looks like the same article with the same mistake as to who provided the assist for the first goal!

The Voice Of Reason
26-09-2011, 07:11 PM
I honestly do not think Wotherspoon is good enough to be an SPL player.

His half decent performances are a very distant memory.

He is the weak link in the Hibs team when he plays - effectively like playing with 10 men. Unless he dramatically improves I cannot see him getting many more 1st team games for Hibs.

The truth hurts men. :tin hat:

Cocaine&Caviar
26-09-2011, 07:29 PM
I think both Wotherspoon and Stevenson could do with time at their boyhood clubs, St Johnstone and Raith Rovers respectively, it would get them game time, confidence and time away from the boo boys. However, i dont think we've got enough bodies in the squad to allow such moves to happen.

The Voice Of Reason
26-09-2011, 07:35 PM
I think both Wotherspoon and Stevenson could do with time at their boyhood clubs, St Johnstone and Raith Rovers respectively, it would get them game time, confidence and time away from the boo boys. However, i dont think we've got enough bodies in the squad to allow such moves to happen.

I do not think Wotherspoon is good enough to play for St Johnstone (a reminder that they are above us in the league!)

Stevenson probably is good enough to get a game for Raith (although I haven't seen them play this season).

Neither of them should be first team players for Hibs IMHO.

NORTHERNHIBBY
26-09-2011, 07:36 PM
Think he is suffering now from breaking into the team to early and then being too adaptable. Reminds me a bit of Whitts but at least he got a decent run at RB and in a team where others had the brains to tuck in behind when he took off up the flank. Rather than a shift in the stiffs, a season loan to a footballing team in Div One like Hamilton or Morton might be the making of him.

The Voice Of Reason
26-09-2011, 07:52 PM
Think he is suffering now from breaking into the team to early and then being too adaptable. Reminds me a bit of Whitts but at least he got a decent run at RB and in a team where others had the brains to tuck in behind when he took off up the flank. Rather than a shift in the stiffs, a season loan to a footballing team in Div One like Hamilton or Morton might be the making of him.

:faf: Roger Whittaker maybe, but certainly not Steven Whittaker ! (If only Wotherspoon was remotely like Steven!)

NORTHERNHIBBY
26-09-2011, 08:10 PM
:faf: Roger Whittaker maybe, but certainly not Steven Whittaker ! (If only Wotherspoon was remotely like Steven!) my mistake....Whittaker was initially a right sided midfielder that dropped back to right back, whereas Wotherspoon is a right sided midfielder that has dropped back to right back.........

The Voice Of Reason
26-09-2011, 08:18 PM
my mistake....Whittaker was initially a right sided midfielder that dropped back to right back, whereas Wotherspoon is a right sided midfielder that has dropped back to right back.........

Understood. I wasn't questioning that part........it is just that Wotherspoon (IMHO) couldn't lace Whittaker's boots ability wise.

Wotherspoon vs De Graaf - now that is a teaser

Wotherspoon vs Whittaker - no contest!

Future17
26-09-2011, 09:12 PM
I think dropping down a level would perhaps do more harm that good to Wotherspoons confidence. He has always struck me as someone that is perhaps a little over cocky as to his level of ability.

He's never struck me as that type of guy on the pitch but, if you're right, a loan spell in the 1st or 2nd Division might serve as a reality check.

I suppose the elephant in the room in this thread is what happens if he goes on loan and doesn't play games due to putting in performances similar to those he has recently at Hibs. However, if that were to happen, I guess we'd know he wasn't good enough for the SPL in the long term.

I'd love to see him play as an attacking central midfielder or just off the strikers but, to be honest, I'd love to see ANYONE play there for Hibs. I thought that was the type of player Thornhill was going to be and I think Griffiths is probably capable of it as well. I can't recall Wotherspoon playing there, but if he's looked good there for Scotland I'd be interested to see him tried there for Hibs.


No need to apologies, there was someone that entered their player ratings for the game using what looks like the same article with the same mistake as to who provided the assist for the first goal!

That was also me in the same post as I mentioned the possibility of a loan. Worst thing is, I was actually at the match!

I didn't think it was Wotherspoon at the time, but posted that after reading the match report. After all, journalists are never wrong! :greengrin

I saw the highlights and thought about changing it, however that would have lowered Wotherspoon's rating even further and I couldn't bring myself to it.

Sir David Gray
26-09-2011, 09:34 PM
:top marks

Noble sentiments about backing players and team

Unfortunately this doesn't apply to David's situation. On the ball D isn't a bad player although probably one of the slowest for his age I've seen at Hibs in a long time. Completely unable to go round his man. His forward runs are his strong point but passing, first touch and decision-making can be woeful at times.

Defensively is where he is weakest. Tackling appears to consist of grabbing opponents by the arms and bundling them over. When he is not doing that he is ball-watching, backing off - as if he doesn't know how to get tight or get a foot in. However by far his weakest point is positional awareness and lack of fitness. Every time he plays in front of Towell poor Ritchie ends up with 2 men on him with Spoony stranded up the park, jogging back or wandering aimlessly around. When towell attacks, Spoony is generally hidden behind an opposition player instead of making a run into space.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he didn't reappear for the 2nd half on Saturday is because he had Towell's right boot wedged firmly up his erchie

So, in your opinion, his strengths are;

He isn't bad when he's on the ball
His forward runs

And his weaknesses are;

He's slow
Unable to go around an opponent
His passing
His first touch
His decision making
His tackling
He "ball-watches"
He backs off opponents
His positional awareness
He's not fit enough

You've listed five times as many weaknesses as you have strengths there. If he's as bad at all these things as you say he is then I don't see how he can make it much longer as a top level professional football player. These skills and qualities should be basic things that an SPL player can do and at almost 22 years of age, if he can't do these things now then I fail to see how there's much hope for him.

Barring the first few months of his breakthrough season in 09/10, David Wotherspoon has been consistently poor in practically every single game that I've seen him play in.

People pay good money to watch these players and when they can't even complete basic skills then I think they're more than entitled to get on their back.

Dashing Bob S
26-09-2011, 10:46 PM
Brilliant. 5 seconds of skill versus 18months of consistently dismal performances.

Wow. You destroyed me there Bob.

Sorry about the yawn thing, Sneakers, it came over as a bit dismissive and arrogant, it wasn't meant that way - I didn't intend to be mean-spirited towards you.

Can't see how you can say he lacks the basic skills required to play at SPL level. I think he's demonstrated that he has those. But as you and others have alluded to, it's not just about skills, it's about physical condition and mental strength. Jamie McCluskey, Barry Lavety, Chic Charnley and others had an abundance of skill, but for various reasons never achieved what they could have in the game.

If you're arguing that Wotherspoon doesn't have the general attributes to be an SPL player, well, that's a valid proposition to advance given where he's now at, though not a conclusive one. But in a league of hammer-throwers, if you're saying that he doesn't have the skills, then I think that's just nonsense.

RIP
26-09-2011, 11:39 PM
As a Bridge of Earn lad I'd love to see DW improve.

However I can't see any evidence to suggest he's lost confidence - where does that come from?

Stevie Reid
27-09-2011, 09:23 AM
By your theory then Lewis Stevenson, Ross Chisholm, Chris Hogg and Darren McCormack must all have something in their locker. Where are they now? I think it is clutching at straws bringing up pieces of skill that he showed over 2 years ago. That does not make him a good player now.

I think some people should wake and smell the coffee with Wotherspoon. For the last 18months and this season especially, he has been atrocious. Almost non-existant in a poor Hibs side. Many people say they rate him yet wouldn't have him start in a hibs team that is currently experiencing a run of form akin the Jim Duffy era.

I'll ask again, what is his position?

Right midfield? No pace, can't beat a man and terrible distribution.

Centre midfield? Fitness, work rate and tacking would all be a huge issue here.

Right back? Again, defensively he is terrible at times. Not enough awareness, anticipation or concentration.

He is the classic 'doesn't have a position' player.

I have absolutely nothing against the guy and appreciate that he is still young but performances don't lie. Especially over a 18month period. If Hibs had signed a player in Jan '10 transfer window and he had produced the performances Wotherpoon has up until now he would be getting dogs abuse from all angles.

I can already see the pattern here. He will turn into another Lewis Stevenson who showed promise at the start but for a combination of reasons failed to develop. You see it not just at Hibs but across Scottish Football all the time. Sometimes its the players fault, sometimes its the managers/clubs fault and sometimes its a mixture of both.

In Wotherspoon's case I think its both. It clearly hasn't helped him that A) Hughes burnt him out in his 1st season and then B) CC playing him in 3 or 4 different positions. That said, his inability to execute basic tasks on a football field consistently is un-acceptable - regardless of his confidence levels.

Time will tell what happens I suppose and I would love someone to prove me wrong and dredge this thread up again in 6-9months time. But for me its going to take drastic changes in both performances and his mental approach to the game for me to change my opinion.

Agree with the bit on bold, though I don't mean that to translate that I think that DW should be getting abuse. We all know the skill that he can produce, and we are rightly trying to back a young player as much as possible, but there is no escaping the simple fact that he has gone backwards to an horrendous extent - his first 6 months in the first team he looked like a very good young player in a good Hibs team; now he looks like a poor player in a poor Hibs team.

A loan deal may help, but he seems far too involved in the first team squad for that to happen. The decline of DW and Hanlon under Calderwood is extremely worrying, though DW's form had been questionable before his arrival.

007 Mickey Weir
27-09-2011, 12:25 PM
As a Bridge of Earn lad I'd love to see DW improve. However I can't see any evidence to suggest he's lost confidence - where does that come from? My nephew plays for under 14s at Hibs. My brother has been speaking to DW dad a few times.DW has lost a lot of confidence. Comes down to a couple of things. The main one is that his girlfriend tragically died this year and he has been quite cut up about it.Also the fact he has been playing out of position. Positions like left midfield are not good for him.I do think a short term loan could be good for him but I don't see it happening as we have too small a squad.

Wotherspiniesta
27-09-2011, 12:29 PM
My nephew plays for under 14s at Hibs. My brother has been speaking to DW dad a few times.DW has lost a lot of confidence. Comes down to a couple of things. The main one is that his girlfriend tragically died this year and he has been quite cut up about it.Also the fact he has been playing out of position. Positions like left midfield are not good for him.I do think a short term loan could be good for him but I don't see it happening as we have too small a squad.

Sorry to hear about his girlfriend. Must be a horrible thing for the guy to go through.

JimBHibees
27-09-2011, 12:49 PM
Sorry to hear about his girlfriend. Must be a horrible thing for the guy to go through.

Agree especially to a young guy whose career is carried out in the limelight.

Sir David Gray
27-09-2011, 12:52 PM
My nephew plays for under 14s at Hibs. My brother has been speaking to DW dad a few times.DW has lost a lot of confidence. Comes down to a couple of things. The main one is that his girlfriend tragically died this year and he has been quite cut up about it.Also the fact he has been playing out of position. Positions like left midfield are not good for him.I do think a short term loan could be good for him but I don't see it happening as we have too small a squad.

That's an awful thing to go through so if that is the case then it would certainly explain quite a lot. Hopefully he is receiving all of the help and support that he requires from the necessary people to try and get through what must be a very difficult time in his life.

Future17
27-09-2011, 02:41 PM
My nephew plays for under 14s at Hibs. My brother has been speaking to DW dad a few times.DW has lost a lot of confidence. Comes down to a couple of things. The main one is that his girlfriend tragically died this year and he has been quite cut up about it.Also the fact he has been playing out of position. Positions like left midfield are not good for him.I do think a short term loan could be good for him but I don't see it happening as we have too small a squad.

I'm loathe to open this for discussion on a public forum (especially on a thread of this nature) but for the purpose of clarification, I think it was actually his girlfriend's sister who died.

calumb
27-09-2011, 03:15 PM
With Wotherspoon i always think back to when Murray first broke into the first team, for the first couple of years many Hibees thought he must be Alec Mcleish's love child
as nobody could understand what he brought but to the team, but he learned to impose himself on games and by the time he left he was probably Hibs best all round player.

Think Wotherspoon could be the same but unfortunately i fear he is in a team where not much development appears to be going on. I feel sorry for him as he looks lost at the moment.
Maybe that why he plays better for the Scotland u-21's because someone is telling him what he is supposed to do.

brydekirk
27-09-2011, 03:41 PM
Here we go again.

Looks like we've found our new scapegoat for the season! Still a young lad with a lot to learn, but he's lost his confidence.

Still, I guess that means he lacks the basic fundamental skills to be an SPL player. :rolleyes:

FWIW, I think a spell on loan would do him good. But we're a bit short at RB/RM so I can't see it.

I dont mean to be disrespectful, but how do you know he is having confidence issuses ?

Wotherspiniesta
27-09-2011, 04:13 PM
I dont mean to be disrespectful, but how do you know he is having confidence issuses ?

He doesn't play with the same flamboyance as he did when he broke into the first team. The drag backs, the cut backs inside, the passing accuracy, the shots from 30 yards. All non existant now and all signs of a player low on confidence. I don't know DW off the park, I'm talking about his confidence on the park which seems low.

MacBean
27-09-2011, 04:26 PM
I'm loathe to open this for discussion on a public forum (especially on a thread of this nature) but for the purpose of clarification, I think it was actually his girlfriend's sister who died.

I was his girlfriend's sister. 19 Years old.

helsbels
14-10-2011, 01:07 PM
Also totally agree with this, and Murder jokes aside haven't people been saying that Taggart hasn't looked great for the u19s?[/QUOTE]


Taggart to old to play for u 19 hasn't played for them in 2 years!!!!