comeback, but no fightback

[Monkey Harris]

Was on the pub after the game and the point was made, any other team come back from two goals down are usually the team that controls the rest of the game. Instead of pushing for a winner, with over 20 mins left to play we barely had a shot at goal. In fact it was United pushing us in to defending out the game.

[Sammy7nil]

Hibs did Nothing to get back in to the game it just happened !
D Utd were the better team for LONNNNNNNNNNNNNNG spells and how they failed to win only they can explain.

[Dashing Bob S]

Was on the pub after the game and the point was made, any other team come back from two goals down are usually the team that controls the rest of the game. Instead of pushing for a winner, with over 20 mins left to play we barely had a shot at goal. In fact it was United pushing us in to defending out the game.

That was the most disappointing aspect to the game (though most of you who left early will have to take my word for it - meeooowww...check the claws on Bobby this morning...) that we never went hell for leather for the winner, which you would expect a team to do after scoring twice to equalise.

Ultimately it was a rather frustrating afternoon, which again just fudged the issue of Calderwood's tenure at ER. I know I'll get torn apart from the 'never want to see Hibs lose' brigade, but at 1-3, I was hoping for another United goal or three, just get shot of him. Then, at 3-3, I was praying for a Hibs winner and wanting him to stay and complete the job.

Not a good way to feel at a football game.

But I still can't for the life of me determine whether progress is being made at a satisfactory level. We have more fight and togetherness as a team, but still can't defend to save ourselves and have extremely limited creativity.

I had to indulge in some sad laughter at the sight of Ian Murray bombing down the left wing - had we some pace on that flank we could have inflicted considerable damage.

Also thanks to the merry band sitting beside me in the east. They started abusing John Rankin, then moved on to Calderwood and Hibs in general before indulging in heated arguments with each other apropos of nothing. Superb entertainment, though if I'd had kids with me I'd have found it rather too salty, as quite a few around me did.

Also to the three rather splendidly incandescently gorgeous young ladies to my right who provided a fabulous visual alternative to the frustrating fare on the park. If I was ten years younger and single and free, I would certainly have chatted you up and suggested a rendevous in the Victor Paulson (V.i.P. section) of a certain George Street club. Alas, I fear my days of getting young filly's behind the velvet rope have gone.

[aljo7-0]

Hibs did Nothing to get back in to the game it just happened !
D Utd were the better team for LONNNNNNNNNNNNNNG spells and how they failed to win only they can explain.

Bit unfair I feel. It's not as if there were 2 spectacular own goals for us to get back into the game. First goal for Hibs was from a corner when arguably Osborne's shot may have been going in and the second goal was a good finish.

[Sammy7nil]

Bit unfair I feel. It's not as if there were 2 spectacular own goals for us to get back into the game. First goal for Hibs was from a corner when arguably Osborne's shot may have been going in and the second goal was a good finish.

Okay maybe a tad unfair but we were not dominating the game putting Utd under pressure before or after we scored.
The 2nd goal was a poorly defended corner and our 3ed was like Utds 2nd giving the ball away for nowt.

the point I am making is there was no real fight or great play to get back in the game - it just happened.

[matty_f]

Okay maybe a tad unfair but we were not dominating the game putting Utd under pressure before or after we scored.
The 2nd goal was a poorly defended corner and our 3ed was like Utds 2nd giving the ball away for nowt.

the point I am making is there was no real fight or great play to get back in the game - it just happened.

I don't really agree with that, the second came after we were putting pressure on and won a corner, then it was pressure on the United players that won us the ball for O'Connor to play in Agogo to score.

I agree that we should have then had the momentum to push on, but I think there is still a worry about losing games from a position like that with the players and fans. Usually coming from 2 goals down would have the crowd roaring on the players and giving them that wee bit extra to chase the game, but it was like neither the players nor the fans had enough belief that we'd push on and win.

I think that the fear of throwing away a point was more powerful than the confidence that we could win, and that was the deciding factor in why we never pushed Utd further than we did.

Some credit should also go to Dundee Utd as well, I thought they played pretty well throughout and certainly defended well, despite losing 3 goals.

[Hibs Class]

Okay maybe a tad unfair but we were not dominating the game putting Utd under pressure before or after we scored.
The 2nd goal was a poorly defended corner and our 3ed was like Utds 2nd giving the ball away for nowt.

the point I am making is there was no real fight or great play to get back in the game - it just happened.

You could use this as a description of how DU went from a goal down to two ahead as well. The moves leading to our goals were as good as those leading to their goals.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

I don't really agree with that, the second came after we were putting pressure on and won a corner, then it was pressure on the United players that won us the ball for O'Connor to play in Agogo to score.

I agree that we should have then had the momentum to push on, but I think there is still a worry about losing games from a position like that with the players and fans. Usually coming from 2 goals down would have the crowd roaring on the players and giving them that wee bit extra to chase the game, but it was like neither the players nor the fans had enough belief that we'd push on and win.

I think that the fear of throwing away a point was more powerful than the confidence that we could win, and that was the deciding factor in why we never pushed Utd further than we did.

Some credit should also go to Dundee Utd as well, I thought they played pretty well throughout and certainly defended well, despite losing 3 goals.

:agree:

I was expecting the crowd to roar the players on or the players to give something for the fans to get excited about but neither happened after Agogo's goal, as if both fans and players thought a point would be enough, it all went a bit flat after the 3rd goal.

[Green and white]

Dundee played some good football at the end. But at 0-0 there back 4 looked dodgy as well. I don't understand why CC wants us to be a "crossing team" we have no natural wide players with decent end product? Spoony was struggling all game out wide and every time Ivan got the ball wide he ****ing cut in and killed the space. I thought our best player actually out wide was O'Connor when he drifted out wide in the first half quite often. Griffis played ok but need to protect the ball and release it quicker rather than trying the same trick every time. His end product also isn't that good but at least when his antics pull off he can be exciting to watch.

There was improvements today although I feel a major breakdown of communication caused us a few goals? When Osbourne gave away the backk right in front of his 2 CB was criminal. O'Hanlon should of been screaming man on IMO. Also our full backs when we have the ball, surely if one goes forward the other one should tuck in tight? I thought Towell done this well but we were left exposed far to often at the back today. The center backs as well need to talk a lot more, Ian Murray should retire now, sorry to anyone who likes the guy but he's far to slow to be a left back. At least he gives 110% though.

Only an opinion, don't shoot me

[Sammy7nil]

Dundee played some good football at the end. But at 0-0 there back 4 looked dodgy as well. I don't understand why CC wants us to be a "crossing team" we have no natural wide players with decent end product? Spoony was struggling all game out wide and every time Ivan got the ball wide he ****ing cut in and killed the space. I thought our best player actually out wide was O'Connor when he drifted out wide in the first half quite often. Griffis played ok but need to protect the ball and release it quicker rather than trying the same trick every time. His end product also isn't that good but at least when his antics pull off he can be exciting to watch.

There was improvements today although I feel a major breakdown of communication caused us a few goals? When Osbourne gave away the backk right in front of his 2 CB was criminal. O'Hanlon should of been screaming man on IMO. Also our full backs when we have the ball, surely if one goes forward the other one should tuck in tight? I thought Towell done this well but we were left exposed far to often at the back today. The center backs as well need to talk a lot more, Ian Murray should retire now, sorry to anyone who likes the guy but he's far to slow to be a left back. At least he gives 110% though.

Only an opinion, don't shoot me

He is not too slow if he could play against Hibs everyweek
AGGO is slower than me FFS :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

Last two games, I've got the feeling that the following has happened:

CC sets the team up wrong, and we go behind far too easily.
BB blows a fuse and makes sure that the team doesn't give up - we (with a little dash of good fortune) come back for the draw.

If we have more of the second, with less of the first, then we're in a good position.

The problem is, as it has always been for this sesaon, CC.

[hibs0666]

Was on the pub after the game and the point was made, any other team come back from two goals down are usually the team that controls the rest of the game. Instead of pushing for a winner, with over 20 mins left to play we barely had a shot at goal. In fact it was United pushing us in to defending out the game.

I was delighted to see the team fight back, play for the jersey and make a good comeback from a poor position.

[hibs0666]

Last two games, I've got the feeling that the following has happened:

CC sets the team up wrong, and we go behind far too easily.
BB blows a fuse and makes sure that the team doesn't give up - we (with a little dash of good fortune) come back for the draw.

If we have more of the second, with less of the first, then we're in a good position.

The problem is, as it has always been for this sesaon, CC.

In both of the last two games we have went ahead but I guess that was not CC's fault either.

[Northernhibee]

In both of the last two games we have went ahead but I guess that was not CC's fault either.

If we didnt have GO'C on the pitch, there is no way in hell that we would have taken the lead.

It's entirely beyond me how anyone can defend CC. We lose so, so many goals and most of them we score is because we have an EPL/Championship quality player up front for us who has something to prove.

[Sioux]

Also thanks to the merry band sitting beside me in the east. They started abusing John Rankin, then moved on to Calderwood and Hibs in general before indulging in heated arguments with each other apropos of nothing. Superb entertainment, though if I'd had kids with me I'd have found it rather too salty, as quite a few around me did.


God forbid such a thing could ever happen on here eh!

[Ferryhibby]

Belief and confidence, two words that are sadly lacking in this team, we were pushing forward and passing the ball about also winning it in midfield, but when we had the ball there was a severe lack of belief that we could do something and a total lack of confidence to even try something, to me this all stems from alot of the crowd as well, everytime we make a pass backward or a wrong pass, the crowd howls like it was the end of the world, doesnt matter that we still have the ball and retain possesion, now im not saying were the biggest problem but it cant help the players to hear us screaming at them because they might have made the wrong pass, where i sit in the west stand thers two guys who, from the first whistle do nothin but berate whoevers on the ball, then turn their attention to the manager, and its not just CC who gets it they have been like that for years giving it tight to whoevers in charge, the team seem to be trying, regardless of what CC's tactics are, but i think a bit more positive support might just give them back some confidence....or am i just deluded.

[Northernhibee]

In both of the last two games we have went ahead but I guess that was not CC's fault either.

Coming back to this (the pettyness of it has pissed me off), is it down to CC's wonderful management that we haven't won at home for seven months? Is it just bad luck that despite CC's world class leadership skills that we've suffered capitulations to the likes of St Mirren, Hamilton, Killie, Ayr United, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hearts and many more in the last few games of last season and the whole of this season? Is it reason to offer CC a new contract that our only win this season was due to a major goalkeeping ****-up from the team who are bottom of the SPL?

If you're going to defend CC, then go the whole hog and say why you think he deserves to be Hibs manager and has the skill to do so (and none of this "You can't go chopping and changing all the time", that's not a defense - much like CC's back four), but if you can't, then just stop the petty nitpicking and realise that he's an embarrasment for our club and has to go.

[hibs0666]

If we didnt have GO'C on the pitch, there is no way in hell that we would have taken the lead.

It's entirely beyond me how anyone can defend CC. We lose so, so many goals and most of them we score is because we have an EPL/Championship quality player up front for us who has something to prove.

Dads, baws and mammys come to mind.

We know our team ain't the best, but they are showing the fight and passion needed to get it sorted. Do they get credit for it? It's Hibs supporters we are talking about, so of course they won't.

[greenlex]

Coming back to this (the pettyness of it has pissed me off), is it down to CC's wonderful management that we haven't won at home for seven months? Is it just bad luck that despite CC's world class leadership skills that we've suffered capitulations to the likes of St Mirren, Hamilton, Killie, Ayr United, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hearts and many more in the last few games of last season and the whole of this season? Is it reason to offer CC a new contract that our only win this season was due to a major goalkeeping ****-up from the team who are bottom of the SPL?

If you're going to defend CC, then go the whole hog and say why you think he deserves to be Hibs manager and has the skill to do so (and none of this "You can't go chopping and changing all the time", that's not a defense - much like CC's back four), but if you can't, then just stop the petty nitpicking and realise that he's an embarrasment for our club and has to go.

He is manager who has managed successfully at arguably a higher level than Hibs. He has had his squad together since the Derby. I should noted that even by that game that some players had only been at the club for weeks if not days. There were also players who were coming back from injury.
The appointment of Brown as his assistant should further help.

Since that game at Tynecastle we are unbeaten whether you like it or not We have progressed in one of two competitions we are most likely to win against a team sitting third in the league table. Calderwood deserves more time with his team whether you like it or not. So dry your eyes and get behind the team instead of sniping at anyone who dares to have a differing opinion to you.

[hibs0666]

Coming back to this (the pettyness of it has pissed me off), is it down to CC's wonderful management that we haven't won at home for seven months? Is it just bad luck that despite CC's world class leadership skills that we've suffered capitulations to the likes of St Mirren, Hamilton, Killie, Ayr United, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hearts and many more in the last few games of last season and the whole of this season? Is it reason to offer CC a new contract that our only win this season was due to a major goalkeeping ****-up from the team who are bottom of the SPL?

If you're going to defend CC, then go the whole hog and say why you think he deserves to be Hibs manager and has the skill to do so (and none of this "You can't go chopping and changing all the time", that's not a defense - much like CC's back four), but if you can't, then just stop the petty nitpicking and realise that he's an embarrasment for our club and has to go.

That's fine, you crack on. Meantime, I'll stick to backing the club as it tries to turn around the bad start to the season.

[Northernhibee]

That's fine, you crack on. Meantime, I'll stick to backing the club as it tries to turn around the bad start to the season.


Again, you don't raise a point at all. I back the club and want to see the club succeed, and part of that is I want the right personell in to look after the interests of the club.

CC is not that person.

[Green and white]

He is not too slow if he could play against Hibs everyweek
AGGO is slower than me FFS :greengrin

he's about as quick as a square tyre

[--------]

There's no composure on the ball - we keep giving it away with hurried, random passes.

No one seems to be moving to lose his marker - result, the man with the ball is always under pressure.

The team seems to have no shape - United were left to dictate the way the game developed.

We play a high line in defence, which is good, as long as your defenders have the pace to get back when the opposition get past you. We don't. We were very lucky that the assistant refs kept giving the United strikers offside when they weren't. If you don't believe me - check it on Alba - we got out of jail more than once thanks to a wrong decision. (So did they once or twice, but I'm more concerned with our dead SLOOOOOW back-four trying and failing to operate an offside trap.)

Brown is a stand-out on Tuesday, but he's dropped on Saturday for Stack, who was (to put it mildly) less than impressive. What is it with Calderwood and goalkeepers?

Once again the full-backs are being left exposed by wide midfielders failing to track back. Murray's too slow to play LB, and Towell, while better, does need cover from his wingman.

Griffiths really isn't a winger, and yesterday the United fans got to him. He was clearly rattled by the abuse he was getting whenever he was down in the corner, and it didn't help that Winter decided it was open season on him and allowed Dixon to put the boot in three or four times before he finally booked him. (It should have been a red.)

I think we have players, but we have no shape or organisation. Unless a team has those there's no way they can develop sustained pressure of the sort we should have been able to expect for the last 20 minutes of this game.

To put it bluntly, having got back to 3-3 from 1-3 down, we SHOULD have had United in trouble. I'd go so far as to say we SHOULD have gone on to win.

[TornadoHibby]

He is manager who has managed successfully at arguably a higher level than Hibs. He has had his squad together since the Derby. I should noted that even by that game that some players had only been at the club for weeks if not days. There were also players who were coming back from injury.
The appointment of Brown as his assistant should further help.

Since that game at Tynecastle we are unbeaten whether you like it or not We have progressed in one of two competitions we are most likely to win against a team sitting third in the league table. Calderwood deserves more time with his team whether you like it or not. So dry your eyes and get behind the team instead of sniping at anyone who dares to have a differing opinion to you.

I agree with you but it's a view that's not shared by too many both on here and at matchdays judging by some of the shouts I heard around me yesterday! :confused:

It's very easy to find fault, that's why there are so many critics! :wink:

Once a negative point of view has been adopted and argued for by someone, it generally takes virtually a miracle for that person to change that point of view to recognise and acknowledge progress about what he has formed that negative view over! :wink: :agree:

[hibs0666]

There's no composure on the ball - we keep giving it away with hurried, random passes.

Great passes got us two of our three goals. :thumbsup:


No one seems to be moving to lose his marker - result, the man with the ball is always under pressure.

Great movement off markers got us our three goals. :thumbsup:


The team seems to have no shape - United were left to dictate the way the game developed.

Team shape got us more strikes at goal than the opposition. :thumbsup:


We play a high line in defence, which is good, as long as your defenders have the pace to get back when the opposition get past you. We don't. We were very lucky that the assistant refs kept giving the United strikers offside when they weren't. If you don't believe me - check it on Alba - we got out of jail more than once thanks to a wrong decision. (So did they once or twice, but I'm more concerned with our dead SLOOOOOW back-four trying and failing to operate an offside trap.)

High line meant our goalie had very little to deal with. :thumbsup:


Brown is a stand-out on Tuesday, but he's dropped on Saturday for Stack, who was (to put it mildly) less than impressive. What is it with Calderwood and goalkeepers?

Goalies know the score at ER - Brown does the cup ties and Stack does the league games until there is reason to change. Brown may or may not get his chance on Wednesday.


Once again the full-backs are being left exposed by wide midfielders failing to track back. Murray's too slow to play LB, and Towell, while better, does need cover from his wingman.

Yet we had more shots on goal than them. :thumbsup:


Griffiths really isn't a winger, and yesterday the United fans got to him. He was clearly rattled by the abuse he was getting whenever he was down in the corner, and it didn't help that Winter decided it was open season on him and allowed Dixon to put the boot in three or four times before he finally booked him. (It should have been a red.)

Griffiths was indeed poor, but didn't hear too many shouts for him to get tae Wolves. Unlike Agogo who could only manage to score one and lay one on yesterday. :thumbsup:


I think we have players, but we have no shape or organisation. Unless a team has those there's no way they can develop sustained pressure of the sort we should have been able to expect for the last 20 minutes of this game.

To put it bluntly, having got back to 3-3 from 1-3 down, we SHOULD have had United in trouble. I'd go so far as to say we SHOULD have gone on to win.

I would have thought going from 1-3 to 3-3 would mean that by definition that we had United in trouble. :confused:

[lEXO]

Last two games, I've got the feeling that the following has happened:

CC sets the team up wrong, and we go behind far too easily.
BB blows a fuse and makes sure that the team doesn't give up - we (with a little dash of good fortune) come back for the draw.

If we have more of the second, with less of the first, then we're in a good position.

The problem is, as it has always been for this sesaon, CC.

It,s the individual errors that are gifting teams goals. Two yesterday, two against St Mirren, both when we are 1 up at home. That sucks the confidence out of the team and gets the boo boys going. I would blame CC for formations and team selection etc, but dont blame him for these individual errors. These errors have cost us 2 home wins and 5 points.

[ancient hibee]

I'm absolutely sure that had we gone hard for a winning goal and lost a 4th one ourselves there would be a thread on here saying"why did we not shut up shop and make sure of the draw".

[hibs0666]

It,s the individual errors that are gifting teams goals. Two yesterday, two against St Mirren, both when we are 1 up at home. That sucks the confidence out of the team and gets the boo boys going. I would blame CC for formations and team selection etc, but dont blame him for these individual errors. These errors have cost us 2 home wins and 5 points.

:top marks

Slowly but surely we'll get there. :thumbsup:

[--------]

Great passes got us two of our three goals. :thumbsup:

Great movement off markers got us our three goals. :thumbsup:

Team shape got us more strikes at goal than the opposition. :thumbsup:

High line meant our goalie had very little to deal with. :thumbsup:

Goalies know the score at ER - Brown does the cup ties and Stack does the league games until there is reason to change. Brown may or may not get his chance on Wednesday.

Yet we had more shots on goal than them. :thumbsup:

Griffiths was indeed poor, but didn't hear too many shouts for him to get tae Wolves. Unlike Agogo who could only manage to score one and lay one on yesterday. :thumbsup:

I would have thought going from 1-3 to 3-3 would mean that by definition that we had United in trouble. :confused:


So I assume you're completely happy with our performance yesterday?

Two instances of interaction between our strikers in 90 minutes smacks of being the exceptions that prove the rule.

The only reason we got away with defending as high a line as we did was, as I already pointed out, down to mistakes on the part of the assistant referees.

"Shots on goal" doesn't tell the whole story - how many of those shots really troubled their keeper?

I didn't say Griffiths was poor, I said he isn't a winger and the boo-boys got to him. All credit to him that he kept going - he'll play worse and do better, I'm sure.

I'm sure the keepers do 'know the score' at ER. I just happen to think it's a stupid way to work our keepers.


So, again - am I to assume from your multiple-thumbs-up-smilie post you were completely happy with the way Hibs played yesterday?

Because I certainly wasn't.

[hibs0666]

So I assume you're completely happy with our performance yesterday?

Two instances of interaction between our strikers in 90 minutes smacks of being the exceptions that prove the rule.

The only reason we got away with defending as high a line as we did was, as I already pointed out, down to mistakes on the part of the assistant referees.

"Shots on goal" doesn't tell the whole story - how many of those shots really troubled their keeper?

I didn't say Griffiths was poor, I said he isn't a winger and the boo-boys got to him. All credit to him that he kept going - he'll play worse and do better, I'm sure.

I'm sure the keepers do 'know the score' at ER. I just happen to think it's a stupid way to work our keepers.


So, again - am I to assume from your multiple-thumbs-up-smilie post you were completely happy with the way Hibs played yesterday?

Because I certainly wasn't.

The only thing I was disappointed with in yesterday's performance was conceding goals way too easily.

Seeing as your post sounds like something a United supporter would say, was there anything that you were happy with yesterday?

[nortonhibby]

We are 2 wins from a top six place, still in the cup, and a game in hand :flag:

[hibs0666]

We are 2 wins from a top six place, still in the cup, and a game in hand :flag:

Less of the positivity about your team - you canny be a real Hibs supporter unless you take the pure pish out of the club/team at every opportunity. :wink:

[nortonhibby]

Less of the positivity about your team - you canny be a real Hibs supporter unless you take the pure pish out of the club/team at every opportunity. :wink:

My glass is half full :flag:to be fair its not easy to be positive and i understand there may be glasses half empty:confused:.

But we are slowly improving, un defeated in 4, goals scored, big game against ST J WIN IT AND WE ARE BACK :flag: