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HibeeMG
18-09-2011, 11:14 PM
It's not something new and it certainly isn't rocket science but every team really does need that one midfield player who is always looking for the ball and always looking to get attacks started and finished.

A midfield full of hard-working grafters (and I'm not saying our midfielders are hard-working!) will rarely get the job done.

If you look at the big teams down south they have players such as David Silva, Charlie Adam, Fabregas (when he was there), Juan Mata, Luka Modric etc who all buzz about with their heads up, looking to play passes. They're always looking for space and are comfortable on the ball.

We're not going to get players of that calibre obviously but we don't need to. The defence's that we want to unlock aren't of the standard these guys are up against.

We've had players like that in the past (Wee Russell springs to mind) and it would seem to fit in well with the Hibs 'style' of football.

Why have we not addressed this as a matter of urgency in the last few seasons? :confused:

Musselbound
19-09-2011, 07:10 AM
Good question. Maybe Calderwood thinks you can get by without this type of player. A glance at the league table suggests otherwise. Against Dunfermline, David Graham was streets ahead of anything we had in that dept - time on the ball, head up looking for a pass - and he is hardly a household name.

HibeeMG
19-09-2011, 09:17 AM
Good question. Maybe Calderwood thinks you can get by without this type of player. A glance at the league table suggests otherwise. Against Dunfermline, David Graham was streets ahead of anything we had in that dept - time on the ball, head up looking for a pass - and he is hardly a household name.

Absolutely. I saw quite a bit of Dunfermline last season as my mate is a season ticket holder. David Graham was a major reason for them winning that division and it very much looks like he's coped with the higher standard with ease.

The nearest we have to that type of player at the moment is Jimmy Scott. He seems to be the only one who looks to spread play and who also looks for the second ball. In that respect I don't know why we've got him taking corners instead of sitting just outside the box to pick up any clearances and get a shot in.

Stevie Reid
19-09-2011, 09:21 AM
Absolutely. I saw quite a bit of Dunfermline last season as my mate is a season ticket holder. David Graham was a major reason for them winning that division and it very much looks like he's coped with the higher standard with ease.

The nearest we have to that type of player at the moment is Jimmy Scott. He seems to be the only one who looks to spread play and who also looks for the second ball. In that respect I don't know why we've got him taking corners instead of sitting just outside the box to pick up any clearances and get a shot in.

I was saying the same thing as well at the weekend, and whilst I like the effort, desire and application that Scott has, he has nowhere near the quality required to be a playmaker in a team that has aspirations of challenging for the top 6, mainly due to the quality of his passing. To be fair, his delivery from set pieces can be good, and he has a decent shot on him and is happy to have a go, but his decision making is pretty poor - something that is essential in a genuine playmaker.

Baader
19-09-2011, 09:28 AM
Jimmy Scott? More jawbreaker than playmaker... :greengrin

Cocaine&Caviar
19-09-2011, 10:00 AM
I think its important to recognise that sometimes it is a and/or situation when playing with a Target Man & Playmaker, lots of teams operate a playmaker in the absence of a target man, normally those sides that play the more fluid football with a more skilled CF (Arsenal: Fabregas-RVP, Barca: Xavi-Messi, etc).

Lets be honest, with Calderwood he's always going to favour a style of direct football to a target man, such as Sodje or to a lesser extent GOC, with ball winning midfielders to allow us to gain possesion when the ball doees come back at us. Although this isnt as enjoyable to watch as the John Collins era of passing and movement, generally it can be more productive, as seen with Sam Allardyce at Bolton & Blackburn. With the personel CC has at his disposal, it will be enough to see us off relegation this season I am certain, and if he can sort out the defence at the back, if given the time, could get us greater rewards with regards to top 6 and beyond.

Craig_in_Prague
19-09-2011, 10:09 AM
I think its important to recognise that sometimes it is a and/or situation when playing with a Target Man & Playmaker, lots of teams operate a playmaker in the absence of a target man, normally those sides that play the more fluid football with a more skilled CF (Arsenal: Fabregas-RVP, Barca: Xavi-Messi, etc).

Lets be honest, with Calderwood he's always going to favour a style of direct football to a target man, such as Sodje or to a lesser extent GOC, with ball winning midfielders to allow us to gain possesion when the ball doees come back at us. Although this isnt as enjoyable to watch as the John Collins era of passing and movement, generally it can be more productive, as seen with Sam Allardyce at Bolton & Blackburn. With the personel CC has at his disposal, it will be enough to see us off relegation this season I am certain, and if he can sort out the defence at the back, if given the time, could get us greater rewards with regards to top 6 and beyond.

He can take his hoofball, his zero tactics, his bag of sweeties and **** off !

HibeeMG
19-09-2011, 10:13 AM
I think its important to recognise that sometimes it is a and/or situation when playing with a Target Man & Playmaker, lots of teams operate a playmaker in the absence of a target man, normally those sides that play the more fluid football with a more skilled CF (Arsenal: Fabregas-RVP, Barca: Xavi-Messi, etc).

Lets be honest, with Calderwood he's always going to favour a style of direct football to a target man, such as Sodje or to a lesser extent GOC, with ball winning midfielders to allow us to gain possesion when the ball doees come back at us. Although this isnt as enjoyable to watch as the John Collins era of passing and movement, generally it can be more productive, as seen with Sam Allardyce at Bolton & Blackburn. With the personel CC has at his disposal, it will be enough to see us off relegation this season I am certain, and if he can sort out the defence at the back, if given the time, could get us greater rewards with regards to top 6 and beyond.

Yep, I know what you're saying. The problem is, is that most if not all of the SPL is set up to combat direct football as that is the style that has been played for a long time.

Every now and again a team will take a chance and revert to a passing style of play, moving the ball through the midfield. These teams have always found (relative) success. When you factor in the inevitable rise in gates due to the more attractive football on offer then I would say it is a no-brainer to adopt it.

We have players in the team such as GOC, Ivan, Callum Booth, Leigh Griffiths, that would be a lot more dangerous with a player who is always available for a pass and who can spot runs being made by team mates.

RickyS
19-09-2011, 10:29 AM
Yep, I know what you're saying. The problem is, is that most if not all of the SPL is set up to combat direct football as that is the style that has been played for a long time.

Every now and again a team will take a chance and revert to a passing style of play, moving the ball through the midfield. These teams have always found (relative) success. When you factor in the inevitable rise in gates due to the more attractive football on offer then I would say it is a no-brainer to adopt it.

We have players in the team such as GOC, Ivan, Callum Booth, Leigh Griffiths, that would be a lot more dangerous with a player who is always available for a pass and who can spot runs being made by team mates.


Deano!

greenlex
19-09-2011, 10:43 AM
I think Palsson and Ozzy can pass the ball well. Palsson needs to get the finger out and Ozzy needs to get up to speed. Neither will do step overs and back heels though.

Albion Hibs
19-09-2011, 11:50 AM
I think Osbourne probably has some ability on this front, I do not think Palsson has any. I would love to have Liam Miller back at the club, whilst he performances could be up and down, he was not helped by the movement of those around him, but he always had the ability to find a pass. Real shame we could not have held on to him as think he would have made a massive difference especially with players like O'Connor and Griffiths in front of him.

Dashing Bob S
20-09-2011, 11:39 AM
I think Osbourne probably has some ability on this front, I do not think Palsson has any. I would love to have Liam Miller back at the club, whilst he performances could be up and down, he was not helped by the movement of those around him, but he always had the ability to find a pass. Real shame we could not have held on to him as think he would have made a massive difference especially with players like O'Connor and Griffiths in front of him.

I liked Miller too, but his career shows that he's a serial quitter and I feel that we'd gotten everything we were going to get out of him.