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blackpoolhibs
18-09-2011, 10:25 AM
I suppose this will go the way of every other STF thread, he saved us we'd die if he wisnae here, he disnae have to do anything, he said he wouldn't, he's not a football man blah blah blah.

So i will have another try, is he doing enough, what more could he do?

Should he be doing more?

LancashireHibby
18-09-2011, 10:30 AM
Completely depends on how much interest he has in seeing where his money goes, and ultimately how much trust he has in RP.

cam2644
18-09-2011, 10:32 AM
He must be concerned now with losses being incurred and relegation threatening.
The Petrie business model has collapsed.
New blood with greater football vision is needed at the top.

500miles
18-09-2011, 10:39 AM
He doesn't really need to do anything. There is no financial return in Scottish Football, we are stable enough, and we will eventually find a manager who can take the club in the right direction.

The situation is more tedious and boring than threatening. And there's no white knight out there who will pull us out of it, because the SPL doesn't hold the rewards.

smurf
18-09-2011, 10:45 AM
Yes he should be doing more.

In Oct 2005 I took my dad to ER for the game v The Yams. We made our way fairly early so we could get a pint or two behind the goals. Once we arrived a large queue had formed.... The queue was going nowhere fast... what began to annoy me was that the stewards appeared not to be letting the same numbers in to replace those coming out....

Anyway.... then Sir Tom comes out shaking hands to those in the queue etc and reaching me I grumbled about the stewards on the numbers in and out etc etc

What he said immediately struck me as a fascinating insight into how he sees himself as owner of Hibernian Football Club.

"Listen I've got ???? Inside!!"

"I'VE" not "We" or indeed "There are...".

Sir Tom chose to buy the club. He was not the only interested party. Sir Tom was not forced to buy the club. Though we obviously thank him for doing so.

Sir Tom has chosen to retain ownership for twenty years. He has not been forced to retain ownership. And furthermore he has retained a huge % of the ownership.

If he had not wanted to he could have got out if he wanted to.

No I believe he still owns us because he WANTS to own us.

Therefore, its about time the custodian took much more of an interest in the football club he owns and similarly the support held him to account like everyone else involved in our club.

Jack
18-09-2011, 10:47 AM
He needs to step in and provide the business leadership, the visionary leadership the Club does not have. The leadership and vision that built up one of the biggest companies in the world of its type.

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 10:49 AM
I suppose this will go the way of every other STF thread, he saved us we'd die if he wisnae here, he disnae have to do anything, he said he wouldn't, he's not a football man blah blah blah.

So i will have another try, is he doing enough, what more could he do?

Should he be doing more?

I dont know what he's expected to do G? If we're expecting him to throw money at Hibs then what would be the goal? Vlad has *****ed £60m (of somebody else's money right enough) on the Yams and is no closer to the OF than they were when he started. Would we expect similar, or more?

He will not get a return on the money he has put in, in fact I would think he will barely get it back if we are even fortunate enough that someone should come in with the requisite financial muscle be able to deal. If they dont have that finance what would be the point?

Nearly all clubs are performing badly financially, in most cases horrendously, and we are all chasing the same thing and it's easy to argue that change is needed. I think this is right and is currently happening but what is this actually going to change. We all know that the football needs to improve but it's how to achieve this and remain afloat.

H18sry
18-09-2011, 10:50 AM
He needs to step in and provide the business leadership, the visionary leadership the Club does not have. The leadership and vision that built up one of the biggest companies in the world of its type.

His appointed leader is RP, he see's that we balance the books and that's all he thinks we need,he said that there will always be a Hibs and he will not let us get in the state we were in before he took over, and he has ensured that.

franck sauzee
18-09-2011, 10:59 AM
I dont know what he's expected to do G? If we're expecting him to throw money at Hibs then what would be the goal? Vlad has *****ed £60m (of somebody else's money right enough) on the Yams and is no closer to the OF than they were when he started. Would we expect similar, or more? He will not get a return on the money he has put in, in fact I would think he will barely get it back if we are even fortunate enough that someone should come in with the requisite financial muscle be able to deal. If they dont have that finance what would be the point?Nearly all clubs are performing badly financially, in most cases horrendously, and we are all chasing the same thing and it's easy to argue that change is needed. I think this is right and is currently happening but what is this actually going to change. We all know that the football needs to improve but it's how to achieve this and remain afloat.Spot on! Throwing money at hibs will just rack up debt, to achieve what? Third. What's the point in that? Youth is the way forward. Hopefully we can keep the next golden generation around for longer though!

Captain Trips
18-09-2011, 11:02 AM
I suppose this will go the way of every other STF thread, he saved us we'd die if he wisnae here, he disnae have to do anything, he said he wouldn't, he's not a football man blah blah blah.

So i will have another try, is he doing enough, what more could he do?

Should he be doing more?

He should know Hibs can be doing a lot better in terms of football and revenue a lot better, I think he should have a look at a clearout. He did a lot for us but he has to get involved again in looking at us going forward on park, the people there now are failing.

1875 NO 1
18-09-2011, 11:09 AM
I suppose this will go the way of every other STF thread, he saved us we'd die if he wisnae here, he disnae have to do anything, he said he wouldn't, he's not a football man blah blah blah.

So i will have another try, is he doing enough, what more could he do?

Should he be doing more?

sack petrie.

i dont expect him to invest money. there is enough money to make us a decent top 4 SPL team. we just need a chairman and manager that can deliver that.

Entertaing fitba that mogga played had gate and commercial income flooding into the club.

1875 NO 1
18-09-2011, 11:14 AM
His appointed leader is RP, he see's that we balance the books and that's all he thinks we need,he said that there will always be a Hibs and he will not let us get in the state we were in before he took over, and he has ensured that.

not true.

the football club has much much more debt now that we did in 1991. when the accounts come out the debt will be close to £10m!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Back when STF took over there was no or minor debt. The football club was split from the holding co which racked up debts buying avon inns etc!!!!!!!!!!!

£10m debt has to be paid for and takes a big hit out of our turnover before we start paying players etc etc

blackpoolhibs
18-09-2011, 11:18 AM
I dont know what he's expected to do G? If we're expecting him to throw money at Hibs then what would be the goal? Vlad has *****ed £60m (of somebody else's money right enough) on the Yams and is no closer to the OF than they were when he started. Would we expect similar, or more?

He will not get a return on the money he has put in, in fact I would think he will barely get it back if we are even fortunate enough that someone should come in with the requisite financial muscle be able to deal. If they dont have that finance what would be the point?

Nearly all clubs are performing badly financially, in most cases horrendously, and we are all chasing the same thing and it's easy to argue that change is needed. I think this is right and is currently happening but what is this actually going to change. We all know that the football needs to improve but it's how to achieve this and remain afloat.

I know he just cant throw money at the problem, we all do. Yet from where i'm standing, we dont appear to have any leadership.

Petrie was that man, but imo his time has run its course, many fans dont listen to him anymore, he does that wee tour round the bars behind the goals, but that seems to be just to appease folk. He never answers any questions, i'd not expect him to either in a bar.

But for me and the fans i speak to, they dont want to hear from him, its been the same voice for too long, the same answers?

I'm not sure the club have any different answers, but it appears Fyffe and Scott are the new patsys to give us those answers, and it is nice to hear their interviews on HI or youtube. My problem is we dont have a recognised leader, a Tom Hart like figure, sometimes you get it from the manager too, but this guy is like a wet fish.

We as fans look for leadership, do you see any, i dont? I suppose a winning team would make this point redundant, but i feel its a big part of the problem at Hibs, if the fans see nothing, what do the players see?

H18sry
18-09-2011, 11:19 AM
not true. :confused:

the football club has much much more debt now that we did in 1991. when the accounts come out the debt will be close to £10m!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Back when STF took over there was no or minor debt. The football club was split from the holding co which racked up debts buying avon inns etc!!!!!!!!!!!

£10m debt has to be paid for and takes a big hit out of our turnover before we start paying players etc etc
Are we on the brink of going under? NO are we fighting a hostile takeover bid? NO so how can you say we are worse off?

There may be debts of £10,000,000but we are not in the state we were back in `1990 :wink:

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 11:21 AM
not true.

the football club has much much more debt now that we did in 1991. when the accounts come out the debt will be close to £10m!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Back when STF took over there was no or minor debt. The football club was split from the holding co which racked up debts buying avon inns etc!!!!!!!!!!!

£10m debt has to be paid for and takes a big hit out of our turnover before we start paying players etc etc

You are very badly mistaken and getting slightly confused.

HIBERNIAN-0762
18-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Hopefully we can keep the next golden generation around for longer though!

There is no chance of that!, Petrie will bite the hand of the first person who comes looking even at what we have now which is nothing to shout about TBH, our biscuit tin mentality will prevail for many years I'm afraid under STF and him unless we can find a lifelong multi millionaire Hibby who wants to buy the club, fat chance of that of course.

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 11:28 AM
I know he just cant throw money at the problem, we all do. Yet from where i'm standing, we dont appear to have any leadership.

Petrie was that man, but imo his time has run its course, many fans dont listen to him anymore, he does that wee tour round the bars behind the goals, but that seems to be just to appease folk. He never answers any questions, i'd not expect him to either in a bar.

But for me and the fans i speak to, they dont want to hear from him, its been the same voice for too long, the same answers?

I'm not sure the club have any different answers, but it appears Fyffe and Scott are the new patsys to give us those answers, and it is nice to hear their interviews on HI or youtube. My problem is we dont have a recognised leader, a Tom Hart like figure, sometimes you get it from the manager too, but this guy is like a wet fish.

We as fans look for leadership, do you see any, i dont? I suppose a winning team would make this point redundant, but i feel its a big part of the problem at Hibs, if the fans see nothing, what do the players see?

A little unkind on Fife and Scott there buit Petrie maybe recognises he's run his course/had enough and is handing over the reigns to these two. I think Petrie has been good for Hibs and will be sad to see him go, if that's what he's doing, all IMHO of course and recognise others view this somewhat differently :greengrin

I hear what you say about a leader but guys like Tom Hart belong in a bygone age when clubs held all the power, and football has nearly broken successful men like John Boyle or David Murray. For Scottish clubs in particular balancing success on the field with staying alive is becoming an ever more complex set of manouveres. Someone will always throw up an example of someone who is bucking the trend but, generally speaking, I fear dark days lie ahead.

That said we win our next 10 in a row and we will all be quite happy with our lot. Fickle? Most certainly.

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 11:29 AM
There is no chance of that!, Petrie will bite the hand of the first person who comes looking even at what we have now which is nothing to shout about TBH, our biscuit tin mentality will prevail for many years I'm afraid under STF and him unless we can find a lifelong multi millionaire Hibby who wants to buy the club, fat chance of that of course.


He didnt actually do that.

1875 NO 1
18-09-2011, 11:33 AM
You are very badly mistaken and getting slightly confused.

I'm not. I'm sure you have the info to correct my mistaken ways tho.

The Falcon
18-09-2011, 11:51 AM
I'm not. I'm sure you have the info to correct my mistaken ways tho.


Avon Inns was bought by Duff and Gray for a start.

Why do you post such nonsense then demand proof when its challenged?

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 11:55 AM
Avon Inns was bought by Duff and Gray for a start.

Why do you post such nonsense then demand proof when its challenged?


It certainly was. From David Rowland's Inoco company in February 1989.

The holding company was set up to do just that. Hold the debt (which was not regarded as minor) and the stadium to protect the football club.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Another Blackpoolhibs thread about sir tom, how boring. Another thread with no opinion, mearly a few nonsence statements with giving his own view.

So Blackpoolhibs, you clearly feel STF should be doing more, what would you like to see him do?

smurf
18-09-2011, 12:01 PM
I find it quite incredible and depressing that within our support, there is an element, who will not under any circumstances, see the position and role of Sir Tom dare be questioned.

HIBERNIAN-0762
18-09-2011, 12:01 PM
He didnt actually do that.

Sorry? :confused:

1875 NO 1
18-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Avon Inns was bought by Duff and Gray for a start.

Why do you post such nonsense then demand proof when its challenged?


correct they diod buy it.

as for the rest of your post wtf are you talking about?

1875 NO 1
18-09-2011, 12:05 PM
It certainly was. From David Rowland's Inoco company in February 1989.

The holding company was set up to do just that. Hold the debt (which was not regarded as minor) and the stadium to protect the football club.

correct. that is why i said the football club didnt have much debt. still waiitng for you proof that iam talking rubbish.........

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 12:08 PM
Sorry? :confused:

Hibs didnt take the first offer they got therefore they did not " bite the hand of the first person who comes looking"

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 12:19 PM
correct. that is why i said the football club didnt have much debt. still waiitng for you proof that iam talking rubbish.........


Debts immediately prior to Mercer's bid were £4.5m as well as owning loss making Avon Inns, probaby Exeter's worst pub and a sports club in Devon that no-one went to. We were haemorraging cash at a rate of knots.

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 12:22 PM
I find it quite incredible and depressing that within our support, there is an element, who will not under any circumstances, see the position and role of Sir Tom dare be questioned.

I dont think Blackpool is questioning STF's involvement and, given the performances of late the OP is perfectly legitimate and these discussions are healthy.

blackpoolhibs
18-09-2011, 12:31 PM
Another Blackpoolhibs thread about sir tom, how boring. Another thread with no opinion, mearly a few nonsence statements with giving his own view.

So Blackpoolhibs, you clearly feel STF should be doing more, what would you like to see him do?

As usual you make no attempt to answer the questions, and change it to a slanging match. Something i knew would happen, and you'd be the one to do it. YER AN :asshole: Fill yer boots.

And if you find them so boring, piss off and read something else.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 12:39 PM
As usual you make no attempt to answer the questions, and change it to a slanging match. Something i knew would happen, and you'd be the one to do it. YER AN :asshole: Fill yer boots.

And if you find them so boring, piss off and read something else.

Good effort as usual avoiding the question.

What more can STF do, nothing as far as i am concerned. He has given the fans the club, what more do you want him to do, stick his hands in his pocket and show faith when the clubs own supporters wont..why should he, he has done plenty, it cant always be a case of the fans looking for something to meet each of there own aspirations before they decided to show support to their team.

blackpoolhibs
18-09-2011, 12:44 PM
Good effort as usual avoiding the question.

What more can STF do, nothing as far as i am concerned. He has given the fans the club, what more do you want him to do, stick his hands in his pocket and show faith when the clubs own supporters wont..why should he, he has done plenty, it cant always be a case of the fans looking for something to meet each of there own aspirations before they decided to show support to their team.

And thats all you needed to say, but yet again you have your pop at the hibs support for daring to stay away or question whats going on.

I hope you end up the only person at easter road on match days. You could then look round and say what a fan (dan) i am.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 12:53 PM
As usual you make no attempt to answer the questions, and change it to a slanging match. Something i knew would happen, and you'd be the one to do it. YER AN :asshole: Fill yer boots.

And if you find them so boring, piss off and read something else.


And thats all you needed to say, but yet again you have your pop at the hibs support for daring to stay away or question whats going on.

I hope you end up the only person at easter road on match days. You could then look round and say what a fan (dan) i am.

I have always thought you had that in you.

If the board, owner, managers and players can be questioned why cant the fans?

blackpoolhibs
18-09-2011, 12:55 PM
I have always thought you had that in you.

If the board, owner, managers and players can be questioned why cant the fans?

You dont think the manager and players or the board can be questioned, so why the fans?

--------
18-09-2011, 12:58 PM
Good effort as usual avoiding the question.

What more can STF do, nothing as far as i am concerned. He has given the fans the club, what more do you want him to do, stick his hands in his pocket and show faith when the clubs own supporters wont..why should he, he has done plenty, it cant always be a case of the fans looking for something to meet each of there own aspirations before they decided to show support to their team.


Excuse me? In exactly what sense has he given the club to the fans?

He owns the club. Petrie is his man running the club. He approves appointments to the board. In the end of the day everyone in the club takes a lead from him. Except that 'leadership' in any conventional meaning of the word has been sadly lacking for a long, long time now.

He's the Invisible Man of Scottish football. When was the last time you read a direct quote from Tom Farmer regarding Hibs?

As already said - if Petrie had been running a KwikFit branch the way he's running Hibs right now, he'd have been out on his ear quick as lightning.

I agree with smurf's post#5:

Yes he should be doing more.

In Oct 2005 I took my dad to ER for the game v The Yams. We made our way fairly early so we could get a pint or two behind the goals. Once we arrived a large queue had formed.... The queue was going nowhere fast... what began to annoy me was that the stewards appeared not to be letting the same numbers in to replace those coming out....

Anyway.... then Sir Tom comes out shaking hands to those in the queue etc and reaching me I grumbled about the stewards on the numbers in and out etc etc

What he said immediately struck me as a fascinating insight into how he sees himself as owner of Hibernian Football Club.

"Listen I've got ???? Inside!!"

"I'VE" not "We" or indeed "There are...".

Sir Tom chose to buy the club. He was not the only interested party. Sir Tom was not forced to buy the club. Though we obviously thank him for doing so.

Sir Tom has chosen to retain ownership for twenty years. He has not been forced to retain ownership. And furthermore he has retained a huge % of the ownership.

If he had not wanted to he could have got out if he wanted to.

No I believe he still owns us because he WANTS to own us.

Therefore, its about time the custodian took much more of an interest in the football club he owns and similarly the support held him to account like everyone else involved in our club.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Excuse me? In exactly what sense has he given the club to the fans?

He owns the club. Petrie is his man running the club. He approves appointments to the board. In the end of the day everyone in the club takes a lead from him. Except that 'leadership' in any conventional meaning of the word has been sadly lacking for a long, long time now.

He's the Invisible Man of Scottish football. When was the last time you read a direct quote from Tom Farmer regarding Hibs?

As already said - if Petrie had been running a KwikFit branch the way he's running Hibs right now, he'd have been out on his ear quick as lightning.

I agree with smurf's post#5:

Yes he should be doing more.

In Oct 2005 I took my dad to ER for the game v The Yams. We made our way fairly early so we could get a pint or two behind the goals. Once we arrived a large queue had formed.... The queue was going nowhere fast... what began to annoy me was that the stewards appeared not to be letting the same numbers in to replace those coming out....

Anyway.... then Sir Tom comes out shaking hands to those in the queue etc and reaching me I grumbled about the stewards on the numbers in and out etc etc

What he said immediately struck me as a fascinating insight into how he sees himself as owner of Hibernian Football Club.

"Listen I've got ???? Inside!!"

"I'VE" not "We" or indeed "There are...".

Sir Tom chose to buy the club. He was not the only interested party. Sir Tom was not forced to buy the club. Though we obviously thank him for doing so.

Sir Tom has chosen to retain ownership for twenty years. He has not been forced to retain ownership. And furthermore he has retained a huge % of the ownership.

If he had not wanted to he could have got out if he wanted to.

No I believe he still owns us because he WANTS to own us.

Therefore, its about time the custodian took much more of an interest in the football club he owns and similarly the support held him to account like everyone else involved in our club.

That is pretty simple....its is still there. Without him would it be, probably not.

He has removed debt and built us a stadium, it is up to the fans to come and use it.

Hibercelona
18-09-2011, 01:07 PM
He doesn't really need to do anything. There is no financial return in Scottish Football, we are stable enough, and we will eventually find a manager who can take the club in the right direction.

The situation is more tedious and boring than threatening. And there's no white knight out there who will pull us out of it, because the SPL doesn't hold the rewards.

Thats very true.

But does the man really need to make anymore of a profit? :dunno:

As the clubs owner and major shareholder, he has a responsibility to take action when action is necessary. He could turn this mess around without raising his left pinky if he wanted to.

--------
18-09-2011, 01:19 PM
That is pretty simple....its is still there. Without him would it be, probably not.

He has removed debt and built us a stadium, it is up to the fans to come and use it.


The only reason for a football stadium's existence is to stage football matches.

Home fans (in this case us) will come in our numbers if the home team (that is, Hibs) are playing well and showing commitment and a desire to win.

In an age when a day at the football will cost me in all £40-50, most of which ends up with Hibs to be used for the club's alleged 'benefit' by Petrie and the present board in whom I have absolutely NO confidence, I reserve the right to withhold my presence.

The idea that 20 years on we somehow 'owe' it to Farmer and Petrie to turn up in numbers of 14-15,000 regardless of the dross on the park and the embarrassment of having to turn up at work on Mondays to be gloated over by Yams, Huns, Soapdodgers - in my own case even Airdrie and Albion Rovers fans lately - is ridiculous.

Hibs are drifting rudderless and leaderless right now.

Farmer's the only person who can sort things out - if he wants to.

He's the owner and majority shareholder. A little hands-on direction would be nice.

Because right now I'm as turned-off Hibs as I've ever been in my life.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 01:59 PM
The only reason for a football stadium's existence is to stage football matches. Stating the obvious, but thanks.

Home fans (in this case us) will come in our numbers if the home team (that is, Hibs) are playing well and showing commitment and a desire to win. I think fans should come to support a team regardless, we have a more fickle fan base than many teams in my view. Funny how you ask the team to show commitment, yet sections of our fans dont require to show the same, but that is totally, fine, in fact as far as you are concerned totally acceptable. Goes back to the same old for me, the constant desire to be pandered to, have your back rubbed by hibs. I am now a days of the view that if you want to go, pay your money, brilliant, if you dont F Off, hibs will still be there without you, anyone that thinks different is kidding themselves. If people dont want to go then fine, I have no issue whatsoever, in fact I would rather that than being stuck in amongst people who come along chocking on booing the team and everything else. But dont then spend all day and night on here moaning about it, what good is that, you wont have scene it, so how can you know what you are on about. It is tragic in ways.

In an age when a day at the football will cost me in all £40-50, most of which ends up with Hibs to be used for the club's alleged 'benefit' by Petrie and the present board in whom I have absolutely NO confidence, I reserve the right to withhold my presence.

The idea that 20 years on we somehow 'owe' it to Farmer and Petrie to turn up in numbers of 14-15,000 regardless of the dross on the park and the embarrassment of having to turn up at work on Mondays to be gloated over by Yams, Huns, Soapdodgers - in my own case even Airdrie and Albion Rovers fans lately - is ridiculous. Point me to the bit where I said we owe it to them? There did not appear to be many seats at Ibrox today, but there may be at Celtic Park, that should help if it is bragging rights you are after.

Hibs are drifting rudderless and leaderless right now.

Farmer's the only person who can sort things out - if he wants to.

He's the owner and majority shareholder. A little hands-on direction would be nice.

Because right now I'm as turned-off Hibs as I've ever been in my life. So why spend so much of your daily existance on here complaining about it then? Surely if you are that turned off hibs you can find something better to do. Or do you just enjoy slagging them and everything about them?

The bits on bold.

My whole point is that if hibs was run anything like the views on this board we would have been out of business a long time ago. The constant chopping and changing is frightening, how something can go from being amazing one week and 90 mins later the worst thing in a hibs jersey sums up everything for me. The reaction is embarrassing, the speed at which problems are required to be resolved farcial and all round we would require 101 solutions each game to the 100 problems that are suggested on this board post match.

I am glad tuesdays game is not on TV and saturdays, the level of opinion and nonsense talking usually falls by around 50% in that situation. Then all we have to contend with is the threads on stats, the board and of course STF thread.

500miles
18-09-2011, 02:42 PM
Thats very true.

But does the man really need to make anymore of a profit? :dunno:

As the clubs owner and major shareholder, he has a responsibility to take action when action is necessary. He could turn this mess around without raising his left pinky if he wanted to.
I'm not saying he needs to make any more of a profit, I'm saying there is no profit to be made, so no one who can fund a long term, significant and positive change in the clubs position will be interested. It's not like in England, with the big sponsorships and pots of cash which are so full, they overflow into the lower leagues.

And I'm not convinced that petrie's managerial selections ( TM and since) are particularly bad. They've all had their successes. So changing chief executive doesn't really seem all that much of a priority, especially considering steps forward in infrastructure.

We're a club in a rut, not in crisis. Crisis status is attained if we are battling relegation at Christmas. You've only got to look at what Jimmy Calderwood was saying to realise that we are perceived to be too pro active in sacking managers, which makes us unattractive employers.

Basically, we should never have pushed Mixu ....

Brizo
18-09-2011, 03:22 PM
What more can do STF do ? I would like him to be more accountable to the fans , particularly in times of mass apathy. I would like to know his vision and ambitions for the future now the infrastructures complete.

While he cant be held responsible for every under performing manager or player as owner he has the ultimate responsibility not just for how we operate financially but also for what happens on the pitch .... regardless how much he wants to distance himself from that second responsibility.RP and co provide a very convenient shield for him , attracting the flak that at other clubs is aimed directly at the owner.

STF is highly visible when he wants to be ie when a new bit of infrastructures being unveiled or when we won the Cups but is anonymous when things arent going well on the pitch.

When fans are voting with their feet in their thousands to desert his " community" club nows the time imo for STF to step out of the shadows and address the Hibs community.

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 06:27 PM
Thats very true.

But does the man really need to make anymore of a profit? :dunno:

As the clubs owner and major shareholder, he has a responsibility to take action when action is necessary. He could turn this mess around without raising his left pinky if he wanted to.


If you are suggesting he has made money out of Hibs then you are wrong, he hasnt.

I would be interested if you could expand how you think he could do this?

Bishop Hibee
18-09-2011, 07:00 PM
If you are suggesting he has made money out of Hibs then you are wrong, he hasnt.

I would be interested if you could expand how you think he could do this?

He hasn't made a loss either as far as I'm aware.

It's clear he isn't going to invest money without getting it back at a later date. That's fair enough as he has never boasted about Hibs doing this or that like a certain owner across the city. He's also not going to leave Hibs in the lurch.

The problem is the club is drifting along waiting for the right manager who can pick a player (Mowbray) or can motivate a team (Collins) or gets some cash to get good players in (McLeish) or the jackpot, a combination of these attributes. Crowds are going down and apathy reigns in a post-Turnbull's Tornados effect. That lasted for more than a decade until our 1991 League Cup win.

Meanwhile clubs with less investment seem to do better and our yam rivals win games comfortably despite being millions in debt and with a ramshackle stadium and rented facilities. The suspicion is growing among Hibbys that if Mad Vlad leaves then Hearts will merely go into administration, lose 10 points and their debt and have happy memories of a Scottish Cup win, Champions League qualification, Euro trips and various beatings of us.

All of it makes me wonder what's the point?

To move forward we need to either get lucky like we did with Mowbray who was definitely not perfect but whose team played with style and brought the fans back or have someone invest without any hope of getting the money back like Eddie Thompson with Dundee Utd.

In the meantime we have to hope we can finish 11th this season. That's as low as my hopes for Hibs are.

IWasThere2016
18-09-2011, 07:29 PM
The only reason for a football stadium's existence is to stage football matches.

Home fans (in this case us) will come in our numbers if the home team (that is, Hibs) are playing well and showing commitment and a desire to win.

In an age when a day at the football will cost me in all £40-50, most of which ends up with Hibs to be used for the club's alleged 'benefit' by Petrie and the present board in whom I have absolutely NO confidence, I reserve the right to withhold my presence.

The idea that 20 years on we somehow 'owe' it to Farmer and Petrie to turn up in numbers of 14-15,000 regardless of the dross on the park and the embarrassment of having to turn up at work on Mondays to be gloated over by Yams, Huns, Soapdodgers - in my own case even Airdrie and Albion Rovers fans lately - is ridiculous.

Hibs are drifting rudderless and leaderless right now.

Farmer's the only person who can sort things out - if he wants to.

He's the owner and majority shareholder. A little hands-on direction would be nice.

Because right now I'm as turned-off Hibs as I've ever been in my life.

Great post, and not wrong with the OP or asking the questions :agree:

Kaiser1962
18-09-2011, 07:31 PM
He hasn't made a loss either as far as I'm aware.

It's clear he isn't going to invest money without getting it back at a later date. That's fair enough as he has never boasted about Hibs doing this or that like a certain owner across the city. He's also not going to leave Hibs in the lurch.

There has been quite a lot of talk about this recently and it would appear STF is between £8m-£10m worse off for owning Hibs. Whether he gets that back when it's sold remains to be seen but, given the club debts, that looks like a starting point for someone to take over Hibs, and bring everything back to £0 would be about £18m.



Meanwhile clubs with less investment seem to do better and our yam rivals win games comfortably despite being millions in debt and with a ramshackle stadium and rented facilities. The suspicion is growing among Hibbys that if Mad Vlad leaves then Hearts will merely go into administration, lose 10 points and their debt and have happy memories of a Scottish Cup win, Champions League qualification, Euro trips and various beatings of us.

All of it makes me wonder what's the point?

I agree and the sad thing is you are probably right. If Rangers end up owing the taxman £50m they will put Rangers FC into administration and start again as FC Rangers with a ten point penalty and £50m better off. Absolutely scandalous abuse of the administration rules.


To move forward we need to either get lucky like we did with Mowbray who was definitely not perfect but whose team played with style and brought the fans back or have someone invest without any hope of getting the money back like Eddie Thompson with Dundee Utd.


I agree again. Except it would take a lot more money than either Eddie or Vlad has put in to make an impact. At least Eddie's money was his own.

Dashing Bob S
18-09-2011, 07:40 PM
I think it's become clear that Petrie is responsible for either making poor managerial appointments and/or creating an environment within the club where managers feel compromised and unable to do their jobs.

Petrie has done a great a job at Hibs; he's developed the club off the park and kept a good eye on the finances. I think someone of his caliber is still needed to keep an eye on the financial side of things, but it's clear that the club lacks vision and leadership and he now seems like a man out of time.

The club needs someone with a very clear idea of where he wants us to be and the type of football he wants to see played. Managers have to be aware that there are certain minimum expectations - its impossible to see how such a clueless ditherer like Calderwood would have survived at almost any other SPL for so long. This would be fine if we were bold and visionary, and confident that we had our right man, but as with too many things relating to Hibs, it seems we're a soft touch.

Basically, the test of leadership for STF is to appoint someone else who has that kind of drive to take the club forward, who appoints a manager he knows what to expect from.

smurf
18-09-2011, 08:03 PM
In the 20 year period since Sir Tom owned us what other clubs are under the same ownership?

Top of my head I think possibly St Johnstone are the only club under the same ownership in the SPL?

blackpoolhibs
18-09-2011, 08:13 PM
Great post, and not wrong with the OP or asking the questions :agree:

Where I went wrong was not running it past the uberfanny before I posted it.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 08:31 PM
Where I went wrong was not running it past the uberfanny before I posted it.

I take no offence from the term Uberfan. It is a term made up by Hibs net, its true meaning being simply "fan" or "supporter". Now off you crawl.

Sumner
18-09-2011, 08:34 PM
Get Rod Petrie out of the club. There's a start.

IWasThere2016
18-09-2011, 08:55 PM
Where I went wrong was not running it past the uberfanny before I posted it.

You didn't go wrong :wink:

Too many sheep on here.

We often disagree but at least you have your own thoughts.

Some of the blind faith in a failing boardroom is staggering IMHO.

HIBERNIAN-0762
18-09-2011, 10:00 PM
Hate to keep banging on about this but as far as I'm concerned there is NO CHANCE of STF bouncing RP as long as he is keeping the books in good shape, STF is simply not interested in Hibs enough (football wise) to ship him out as long as he is doing this...and he knows it

Keith_M
19-09-2011, 11:07 AM
STF isn't going to invest any more money into Hibs. He's happy to own his shares and leave the running of the club to others.

There are no mega-millionaire Arabs looking to throw money into Hibs, as there's nothing to be gained by this, financially or prestige wise.

I'm not aware of any mega-millionaire Hibs fans out there who are ready to buy the club and inject serious amounts of cash.


That leaves us with three options:

Accept the running of the club the way it is;
Make our feelings known to the current owners that we're not happy with their stewardship of the club and present a meaningful plan they could implement to change things;
Organise a supporter led buy out of the club that could raise both the funds to buy STF and Petrie's share as well as enough money to move Hibs on to a better level.


As an alternative to the above options, we could always just revert to complaining longly and loudly about the current owners and do nothing whatsoever constructive to change it. My vote is for the latter, as it's the least effort and most fun.

bawheid
19-09-2011, 11:29 AM
In Oct 2005 I took my dad to ER for the game v The Yams. We made our way fairly early so we could get a pint or two behind the goals. Once we arrived a large queue had formed.... The queue was going nowhere fast... what began to annoy me was that the stewards appeared not to be letting the same numbers in to replace those coming out....

Anyway.... then Sir Tom comes out shaking hands to those in the queue etc and reaching me I grumbled about the stewards on the numbers in and out etc etc

What he said immediately struck me as a fascinating insight into how he sees himself as owner of Hibernian Football Club.

"Listen I've got ???? Inside!!"

"I'VE" not "We" or indeed "There are...".



I fail to see how this gave you a "fascinating insight" into how he sees himself? Seems a fairly inoccuous turn of phrase to me.

As for the rest of your post, who else is pitching up to buy the club? I've not heard of anyone who's interested, nevermind someone who would guarantee our stability like the present owner does. The last guy to express an interest was that egg-chasing window salesman who ended up buying Stockport County. I recall a whole load of fuss at the time with some desperate for him to gain control. How did that one work out for the Stockport fans??

smurf
19-09-2011, 12:48 PM
I fail to see how this gave you a "fascinating insight" into how he sees himself? Seems a fairly inoccuous turn of phrase to me.

As for the rest of your post, who else is pitching up to buy the club? I've not heard of anyone who's interested, nevermind someone who would guarantee our stability like the present owner does. The last guy to express an interest was that egg-chasing window salesman who ended up buying Stockport County. I recall a whole load of fuss at the time with some desperate for him to gain control. How did that one work out for the Stockport fans??

Might appear "Innocuous" to to you but it wasn't to me.

Sir Tom Farmer talks (and let's be honest its very rarely publicly re Hibernian FC) very much as the club being HIS club.

Publicly he may be a shy backseat owner but privately he appears to me to be quite comfortable and happy being the owner. It's very much his club. Maybe its the Farmer family connection stretching back to 1891, maybe its the Leith thing, maybe it just feels good to 'own' a part of the community.... who knows.

What I do know is that he wasn't forced to buy us and some twenty years on he's not being forced to still own us.

He still owns the club because he wants to. How can you draw any other conclusion?

SneakersO'Toole
19-09-2011, 12:51 PM
What more can STF do? Start holding the present board accountable for the mistakes being made would be a good start.

bawheid
19-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Might appear "Innocuous" to to you but it wasn't to me.

Sir Tom Farmer talks (and let's be honest its very rarely publicly re Hibernian FC) very much as the club being HIS club.

Publicly he may be a shy backseat owner but privately he appears to me to be quite comfortable and happy being the owner. It's very much his club. Maybe its the Farmer family connection stretching back to 1891, maybe its the Leith thing, maybe it just feels good to 'own' a part of the community.... who knows.

What I do know is that he wasn't forced to buy us and some twenty years on he's not being forced to still own us.

He still owns the club because he wants to. How can you draw any other conclusion?

I fail to see the problem. We have an owner who enjoys owning Hibs. Good stuff.

Who would you rather own Hibs?

smurf
19-09-2011, 01:36 PM
I fail to see the problem. We have an owner who enjoys owning Hibs. Good stuff.

Who would you rather own Hibs?

Well I didn't say it was a problem that he enjoys owning the club did I?

"Good stuff"?

Some like to spin that without him we would be no more. So from that point of view most certainly...

My point is that 'his'club on 'his' watch is in decline and has been for years...

And supporters of 'our' club need to gently remind him of that. And if not interested, as appears the case, maybe better that he puts the club up for sale?

Jack
19-09-2011, 01:39 PM
I fail to see the problem. We have an owner who enjoys owning Hibs. Good stuff.

Who would you rather own Hibs?

Me :greengrin

smurf
19-09-2011, 02:16 PM
Me :greengrin

Well you and many many others is entirely possible should Sir Tom decide to do so...

bawheid
19-09-2011, 02:20 PM
Well I didn't say it was a problem that he enjoys owning the club did I?

"Good stuff"?

Some like to spin that without him we would be no more. So from that point of view most certainly...

My point is that 'his'club on 'his' watch is in decline and has been for years...

And supporters of 'our' club need to gently remind him of that. And if not interested, as appears the case, maybe better that he puts the club up for sale?

Your posts suggest you have a problem with him owning the club, or identifying it as "his" club. Personally, I'm encouraged that he expresses his ownership in such personal terms. Therefore, "good stuff".

The facts are that without his intervention in 1990 there is a strong possibility that "we would be no more". Those are the facts. Nevermind the hyperbole, suggestion and yes, "spin", that others were waiting in the wings. He stepped forward when it mattered and when no one else did.

I would hardly say that we've been in decline for years. Certainly the past couple of seasons have been dreadful, but in terms of his 20 years of ownership, it really isn't that long ago that the club won a trophy and qualified for Europe. That's not to say there aren't issues at the moment though.

Would you rather he put the club up for sale? Who do you envisage buying it, and how would they fare any better? Were you one of the supporters who would have been happy for Brian Kennedy to buy the club in 1998?

bawheid
19-09-2011, 02:21 PM
Well you and many many others is entirely possible should Sir Tom decide to do so...

Personally, I couldn't afford it.

MrSmith
19-09-2011, 02:36 PM
What do I want him to do??

Simple: Walk into the boardroom, tell Rodders to continue looking after the books; Explain to the rest of the board that HE - STF - is now in charge! Then, shortly after, assemble the players, explain to them what it means playing for Hibs and failure to perform to a certain standard will result in loss of earning and suspension from duty; explain to them again that behavior is priority and lack there of will result in loss of earning and suspension; And, explain to them that super fitness coaches will be coming into East Mains where they will be conducting double nah, treble training session to get them fit! Failure to attend will result in: yeah you got it!!

Let's start treating them as professional football players instead of pampered spoon fed babies that they are becoming used to...!

smurf
19-09-2011, 02:52 PM
Your posts suggest you have a problem with him owning the club, or identifying it as "his" club. Personally, I'm encouraged that he expresses his ownership in such personal terms. Therefore, "good stuff".

My problem with him owning the club is his 'hands off' approach to owning the club. The result of this is there for all to see. We are a club in decline...

I found his language interesting because he quite obviously does see it as his club.

Well it would be better if he devoted just a little bit more time into the responsibility that comes with being the custodian.

Face-to-face i have implored him to do so but got "I've not got the time...".

I don't at all find the current situation "good stuff" or indeed acceptable.


The facts are that without his intervention in 1990 there is a strong possibility that "we would be no more". Those are the facts. Nevermind the hyperbole, suggestion and yes, "spin", that others were waiting in the wings. He stepped forward when it mattered and when no one else did.

In 1990 he purchased a very small % of shares that made a crucial difference to defeat Mercer.

In 1991 he purchased the club when others too wanted to.


I would hardly say that we've been in decline for years. Certainly the past couple of seasons have been dreadful, but in terms of his 20 years of ownership, it really isn't that long ago that the club won a trophy and qualified for Europe. That's not to say there aren't issues at the moment though.

In 20 years we've qualified for Europe in 1992, 2001, 2005 and 2010. A shameful record.

In that 20 years we have been relegated.

Yes there are positives too. Stadium and training centre.

We are in decline. Fact.

Crowds are in freefall as is our results and SPL positions...


Would you rather he put the club up for sale? Who do you envisage buying it, and how would they fare any better? Were you one of the supporters who would have been happy for Brian Kennedy to buy the club in 1998?

Yes i would rather he put the club up for sale.

I have no idea if the new ownership would do better. I feel confident though that there is a better alternative than the current situation.

I would like Sir Tom to get out now. He's done his bit. Overall thank you very much. I would like him to name his price. He bought the club for the community so why not try and sell it back into the community? Why doesn't he detail to the penny his financial input and name the price he's looking for in return? Why not just look to get back what he put in plus a sensible interest rate?

Yes i supported Hands on Hibs in 1998 and would have been happy for the Kennedy bid to succeed.

At some point we will need to look at ownership beyond Sir Tom. What exactly is it that you are so fearful of?

Are you suggesting that after Sir Tom we as a club are staring into the abyss?

HuddsHibs
19-09-2011, 02:52 PM
All he has to do is his job as a boss of employees (i.e., the board, RP, however you want to carve it).

His job is the same as any boss: tell his employees what he expects of them (set targets) and assess them against those targets. If they fail to meet those targets over a period of years, change the personnel.

So, either (a) STF has set targets that he thinks the Hibs board is achieving or (b) he isn't too bothered that they are failing a different set of targets.

I can't imagine he'd have got where he is by settling for the (b) approach.

So my guess (and that's all it is!) is that the board has been achieving the targets he has set. To take the guesswork even further, those targets might be something like: stability, SPL survival, infrastructure growth (east mains, new stand), usually top six, odd good cup run, season ticket sales and general attendance steady. This last point is obviously looking dodgy just now.

The dividing line between STF supporters or opponents in my mind is whether you're happy with targets like these or not.

bawheid
19-09-2011, 03:15 PM
In 1990 he purchased a very small % of shares that made a crucial difference to defeat Mercer.

In 1991 he purchased the club when others too wanted to.

As I said, this is spin. Name them.




In 20 years we've qualified for Europe in 1992, 2001, 2005 and 2010. A shameful record.

You have to remember that other teams try and qualify for Europe too. We don't have a divine right to finish 3rd when there are other similar sized clubs playing in our league.



We are in decline. Fact.


You said "fact" so it must be true. I'm not sure we're in decline though.

We've had a couple of poor seasons in a row, definitely. We're in a trough on the playing front, just as we have been many times throughout our history. This makes it easier for guys like you to bang the anti-Farmer drum, just like you have been on and off for the best part of 15 years.




Yes i would rather he put the club up for sale.

Good, now we're getting to the point.



I have no idea if the new ownership would do better. I feel confident though that there is a better alternative than the current situation.

Again, who?



I would like Sir Tom to get out now. He's done his bit. Overall thank you very much. I would like him to name his price. He bought the club for the community so why not try and sell it back into the community? Why doesn't he detail to the penny his financial input and name the price he's looking for in return? Why not just look to get back what he put in plus a sensible interest rate?

Sell it back to the community? Which community? How would the community buy it? Is this like a Big Society thing? How do you know "the community" would run the club better than the current owners?


Yes i supported Hands on Hibs in 1998 and would have been happy for the Kennedy bid to succeed.

I'm not surprised at this smurf, but I'm astonished that you would admit it!! Mark my words, if that bid had succeeded, being second bottom of the SPL a few games into the season would be the least of our worries.



At some point we will need to look at ownership beyond Sir Tom. What exactly is it that you are so fearful of?

Are you suggesting that after Sir Tom we as a club are staring into the abyss?

I'm not fearful of anything. I just think it would be foolhardy to hound out relative stability in favour of someone like Brian Kennedy. That position was shown to be correct in 1998 (thank God), and I believe it to be correct now.

Yes there are clearly issues at the club at the moment, certainly on the playing side, however I don't see how STF selling the club to some chancer would do us any good.

There's nobody there anyway. Who wants to buy an SPL football club? There's nothing to be gained from it. Even if you get into the Europa League you're not exactly coining it in.

Dashing Bob S
20-09-2011, 11:52 AM
As I said, this is spin. Name them.




You have to remember that other teams try and qualify for Europe too. We don't have a divine right to finish 3rd when there are other similar sized clubs playing in our league.



You said "fact" so it must be true. I'm not sure we're in decline though.

We've had a couple of poor seasons in a row, definitely. We're in a trough on the playing front, just as we have been many times throughout our history. This makes it easier for guys like you to bang the anti-Farmer drum, just like you have been on and off for the best part of 15 years.




Good, now we're getting to the point.



Again, who?



Sell it back to the community? Which community? How would the community buy it? Is this like a Big Society thing? How do you know "the community" would run the club better than the current owners?



I'm not surprised at this smurf, but I'm astonished that you would admit it!! Mark my words, if that bid had succeeded, being second bottom of the SPL a few games into the season would be the least of our worries.




I'm not fearful of anything. I just think it would be foolhardy to hound out relative stability in favour of someone like Brian Kennedy. That position was shown to be correct in 1998 (thank God), and I believe it to be correct now.

Yes there are clearly issues at the club at the moment, certainly on the playing side, however I don't see how STF selling the club to some chancer would do us any good.

There's nobody there anyway. Who wants to buy an SPL football club? There's nothing to be gained from it. Even if you get into the Europa League you're not exactly coining it in.

Nutshell. That's why we have to give up the ghost and band together with Benelux and Scandinavian clubs and get a decent, competitive Atlantic League. Scottish football will continue to die a slow death.