PDA

View Full Version : Why take off gary o and lg



Rougier45
17-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Stack is Pish

archiebald
17-09-2011, 12:56 PM
60 Mins again-WHY WHY did he sub those 2-even if it had been one at a interval say 15 mins later :confused::confused:

J-C
17-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Garry O on a yellow and Griffiths starting to mistime challenges.

Rougier45
17-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Clueless- Ivan not kickedba ball this half Gary o best player on park bizarre cc gtf

Rougier45
17-09-2011, 01:02 PM
The 2 big black guys up front are so slow- we are losing this

Leith Green
17-09-2011, 01:03 PM
To quote Chris Kamara "unbelievable Jeff", That just about takes the biscuit for me.

Please remove this bafoon from his job as he is embarrisingly bad!

Stevie Reid
17-09-2011, 01:03 PM
We've been very ropey at the back, midfield has been non existant but carried a real threat up front - 2 goals away from home in 50 minutes, start of the 2nd half we looked like we could score every time we went up the park. We haven't had a meaningful attack since they went off - quite simply, appalling management.

Incidentally, Booth is really toiling again today, unfortunately.

DarrenSQH
17-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Calderwood is a clown. The sooner he pisses off the better. :agree:

ronaldo7
17-09-2011, 01:08 PM
Sodje and Agoslow are Murder

archiebald
17-09-2011, 01:11 PM
Garry O on a yellow and Griffiths starting to mistime challenges. No sorry 2 poor subs Sodje and Agogo dont move same type of player - I have now gave up on Calderwood - if he cant make sure his players can behave on pitch well

NorthNorfolkHFC
17-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Agogo is absolutely murder!!! He offers nothing and doesn't chase anything!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Bob Box Fish
17-09-2011, 01:25 PM
Both GOC and LG were playing well and stretching their defence. . . . then he brings on those two big haddies

Wotherspiniesta
17-09-2011, 01:27 PM
To quote Chris Kamara "unbelievable Jeff", That just about takes the biscuit for me.

Please remove this bafoon from his job as he is embarrisingly bad!

:agree:

That's possibly the worst decision he's made since he's been at the club.

He can't do much about individual mistakes, but if he'd kept Garry O and Leigh on we would have won that game.

It was the first time in the match where we were looking really dangerous going forward FFS.

Get this clown OOT!

biggie1875
17-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Calderwood must go Pish again

grantonhibee
17-09-2011, 01:29 PM
the 2 of them looked dangerous when going forward , a cant believe he put those 2 duds on , we are in a mess totally shambolic

Stevie Reid
17-09-2011, 01:31 PM
He can't change a game from a losing position, yet managed to make 2 substitutions that denied us a win. His defenders have made many excuses from him, that was inexcusable - totally shocking management, pure and simple.

ronaldo7
17-09-2011, 01:31 PM
You defend the game from the front. When we had Garry and Sparky up front they did some amount of running to close down the ball coming forward. When they went off we never closed down the ball. To make two subbies at the same time with 30 minutes to go was wrong on so many counts.

He's clearly lost the plot or is just wanting to give his boys a run.

Bad decision.

Forza Fred
17-09-2011, 01:32 PM
Surely the most inept, poorly thought out double substitution in living memory!

Gary O was putting enormous pressure on thier defence, scored one and won an aerial challenge to help set up the first one.

His consistent pressure meant that the pars could not build from the back.

LG was not as effective as Gary O' but did set up Ivan's goal and was getting closer and closer.

Take them both off!!!?????

From that opint HIbs lost momentum and nearly the match.

CC pick up your bags of sweets and please go.

He just doesnt have a clue.

Monkey Harris
17-09-2011, 01:33 PM
This **** is trying to get the sack. Sack him now!!!!!!

smurf
17-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Looked like he thought we might somehow win and panicked...

hibiedude
17-09-2011, 01:44 PM
After calderwoods post match interview he dosent know why either :confused:

Callum_62
17-09-2011, 01:54 PM
2 ways to look at it:

caldos way - they came on just as we lost the momentum with there goal....so were up against it from the off

or my way:

We lost a goal....we then showed no threat what so ever...hardly won a ball in the air....never closed down there defense, and never made the ball stick up top.

Id say the contstant pressue after there 1st was due to having the most immobile partnership around up front.....they were brought on to hold the ball up...they couldnt even do that....no movement and no strength. :taxi

blackpoolhibs
17-09-2011, 01:54 PM
We were in danger of winning the game, thats why he took off our best chance of doing so. He's a xxxx.

At The Edge
17-09-2011, 02:03 PM
We were in danger of winning the game, thats why he took off our best chance of doing so. He's a xxxx.


Could you put a letter at the start next time, so many could fit in there right now, not sure which one you mean:wink:
Although all that fit sum up that clueless balloon.

KingFranck
17-09-2011, 02:06 PM
I was willing to give cc a chance but tbh the subs today of garry o and LG were the final straw how bad is Junior ? I can understand the sproule sub as we had to try and block the flow down our left side and making Booth look worse he constantly had 2 men running at him However the front two subs were astonishing

Bishop Hibee
17-09-2011, 02:09 PM
CC claimed in his post-match interview on Radio Scotland that Gary O and Sparky weren't closing down the defenders well enough. I thought forwards were there primarily to score goals?

Agogo is a poor mans Trakys from his performances so far although the service from midfield is woeful.

Relegation dogfight all the way.

Stevie Reid
17-09-2011, 02:13 PM
Laughed off suggestions that his substitutions backfired on ESPN. So he actually is having a laugh...

CmoantheHibs
17-09-2011, 02:16 PM
I dont think GOc would have been subbed if he didnt get booked for a stupid egotistical gesture.Unless he is completely thick he must have known that he would have been booked for removing his shirt to show his little message.After that 1 mistimed tackle or poor decision by the ref and he was off.He was probably Hibs best player at that point too,looking a threat most occasions he had the ball.He does need to grow up and start using his brain imo.

Jim44
17-09-2011, 02:17 PM
What was the message on o'Connor's teeshirt? I hope he loses a week's wages 'cos his booking definitely caused Deadwood to sub him for his own good and it lost us the win.

Callum_62
17-09-2011, 02:21 PM
What was the message on o'Connor's teeshirt? I hope he loses a week's wages 'cos his booking definitely caused Deadwood to sub him for his own good and it lost us the win.

"only god can judge me" silly BUT...should Hanlon on O'Hanlon have been subbed? they were booked afterall......

stupid to take BOTH GOC and LG off.

KeithTheHibby
17-09-2011, 02:21 PM
CC claimed in his post-match interview on Radio Scotland that Gary O and Sparky weren't closing down the defenders well enough. I thought forwards were there primarily to score goals?

Agogo is a poor mans Trakys from his performances so far although the service from midfield is woeful.

Relegation dogfight all the way.


CC never said anything about GoC and LG not closing down players on ESPN despite being asked about why the double substution.

When asked about the subs not doing enough he didn't agree on that one. He then went on to say that we didn't do enough in the final third after they equalised.

Time to move on CC, it's not working, never has done and there is no sign of it changing.

JimBHibees
17-09-2011, 02:25 PM
Possibly the worst substitution in living memory completely changed the game. May have been some sort of argument for GOC which I dont agree with but to take both of them off was staggering. Sodje and Griffiths would probably been ok anyone with Agogo who looks half fit and isnt prepared to put any effort it was completely bizarre and kind of backs up the view he is working his ticket.

Hibrandenburg
17-09-2011, 02:28 PM
60 Mins again-WHY WHY did he sub those 2-even if it had been one at a interval say 15 mins later :confused::confused:

He's saving them for our mid-week Champions League tie. Oh wait a minute!

Stevie Reid
17-09-2011, 02:32 PM
"only god can judge me" silly BUT...should Hanlon on O'Hanlon have been subbed? they were booked afterall......

stupid to take BOTH GOC and LG off.

Agree completely. O'Connor was monumentally stupid to take his shirt off, scoring a goal is enough of an act to shut people up, and he should be punished for it. But if a centre forward can't play on a yellow card for 40 minutes, we're in trouble.

LUDICROUS decision, and should be one of his last.

500miles
17-09-2011, 02:36 PM
O'Connor picked up a booking, and then started to try and argue with the ref. Stupid, so sort of understandable to see Sodje come on for him.
I have no idea what Agogo is supposed to offer.

Hibercelona
17-09-2011, 02:40 PM
"only god can judge me" silly BUT...should Hanlon on O'Hanlon have been subbed? they were booked afterall......

stupid to take BOTH GOC and LG off.

What an utter ringpiece!

Get them all to f#**!

Hiber-nation
17-09-2011, 02:47 PM
Possibly the worst substitution in living memory completely changed the game. May have been some sort of argument for GOC which I dont agree with but to take both of them off was staggering. Sodje and Griffiths would probably been ok anyone with Agogo who looks half fit and isnt prepared to put any effort it was completely bizarre and kind of backs up the view he is working his ticket.

I'd say definitely rather than possibly.

A sackable offence if ever there was one. Please get rid of this pitiful excuse for a manager.

Hiber-nation
17-09-2011, 02:48 PM
O'Connor picked up a booking, and then started to try and argue with the ref. Stupid, so sort of understandable to see Sodje come on for him.
I have no idea what Agogo is supposed to offer.

Not understandable to me. He and Griffiths were ripping there defence to shreds. I didn't see any possibility of a 2nd booking.

Agree about Agogo though, surely this was some gadge they dragged out the pub and not a real football player?

zlatan
17-09-2011, 02:49 PM
Mong

hibeemarley
17-09-2011, 02:56 PM
I think he is trying to get sacked, so he can get his move back down south.

H18S NX
17-09-2011, 02:59 PM
Call me suspicious,but i think he is trying to work his ticket out,substituting the front two at the same time was absolutely rediculous and shows the man to be tactically nous:confused:

Sumner
17-09-2011, 03:03 PM
Calderwood is a clown. The sooner he pisses off the better. :agree:

concise and accurate point fella :agree:

woody47
17-09-2011, 03:05 PM
Wonder how many of CC's apologists on here will come on defending him now. I can almost see why he subbed GO'C because he made a total erse of himself taking his top off and getting a booking ........but Sparky? And to put on one of the laziest players I have seen at ER in a long time - Agogo!!!!!!!! His name is a contradiction of terms. He just wasn't interested.
CC looks like he really wants sacked. We actually started quite well with more passing up the wings than I have seen in a while. Then we get in front, make two ridiculous subs then HOOF! Every bl00dy time Stack got the ball - HOOF!. This has to be the instructions from CC otherwise CC shouldl have been screaming at him to throw it to one of our players. But no, lets just hoof the ball to agogo who didn't even wnat to lift one foot of the ground, no matter two. Unbelievable.
Wonder if he heard the chants of Colin, Colin, GTF as the crowd were leaving. Sincerely hope so!

RickyS
17-09-2011, 04:44 PM
Wonder how many of CC's apologists on here will come on defending him now. I can almost see why he subbed GO'C because he made a total erse of himself taking his top off and getting a booking ........but Sparky? And to put on one of the laziest players I have seen at ER in a long time - Agogo!!!!!!!! His name is a contradiction of terms. He just wasn't interested.
CC looks like he really wants sacked. We actually started quite well with more passing up the wings than I have seen in a while. Then we get in front, make two ridiculous subs then HOOF! Every bl00dy time Stack got the ball - HOOF!. This has to be the instructions from CC otherwise CC shouldl have been screaming at him to throw it to one of our players. But no, lets just hoof the ball to agogo who didn't even wnat to lift one foot of the ground, no matter two. Unbelievable.
Wonder if he heard the chants of Colin, Colin, GTF as the crowd were leaving. Sincerely hope so!


the boy Currie that interviews for ESPN said that he thought Gaz & Leigh had a good game and were effective and when the sub was made we were less effective (sounds about right) he gave us that smile and said "thats not what i saw"!

the guy makes me so effin mad

Broken Gnome
17-09-2011, 04:50 PM
100 greater things to worry about obviously, but having Danny Galbraith stripped and ready to go then ultimately deciding on another option about an hour later was pretty poor man-management an all.

Albion Hibs
17-09-2011, 05:03 PM
Laughed off suggestions that his substitutions backfired on ESPN. So he actually is having a laugh...

I would agree with him, I thought O'Connor could have done more for the first goal at the time and should perhaps have closed down the pass down the line, he did not. I would add I have not seen the goals again at the time. O'Connor was booked and decided that he could have all sorts of shouting matches with the ref, if he gets himself sent off we are down to 10 men and maybe lose the game..I am sure CC would have been getting pelters for not taking O'Connor off sooner if that was the case. So I agree with him coming off, lets be honest in the first half he was minging.

I thought Griffiths was looking tired and starting to fly into challanges, the ball was also not being held up at all and thus putting us under more pressure. In addition I dont remember Griffiths actually doing anything all game. Why people were so surprised when he came off I dont know.

I agreed with the changes he made, would I have made them both at the same time, I dont know, but he will know better than me. The changes had no effect on the goal, Towell, Palsson and again a goal coming from / to the left CH - how many is that this season? at least 4 or 5 I think.

greenlex
17-09-2011, 05:10 PM
100 greater things to worry about obviously, but having Danny Galbraith stripped and ready to go then ultimately deciding on another option about an hour later was pretty poor man-management an all. He was going to replace Ivan at the time as he looked like he was injured but ivan carried on and Danny was stood down.

marinello59
17-09-2011, 05:20 PM
He was going to replace Ivan at the time as he looked like he was injured but ivan carried on and Danny was stood down.

Why was Wotherspoon eventually considered the better option though? Surely Galbraith's pace against their dodgy defence would have been more useful if we were looking to actually win the game?

Broken Gnome
17-09-2011, 05:27 PM
He was going to replace Ivan at the time as he looked like he was injured but ivan carried on and Danny was stood down.

I know, but why get him stripped if Ivan was still getting time to run it off, unsuccessful or otherwise? I'd imagine that would make the player involved feel like a bit of a t!t to be honest. Pretty poor communication all round.


Why was Wotherspoon eventually considered the better option though? Surely Galbraith's pace against their dodgy defence would have been more useful if we were looking to actually win the game?

Exactly.

I know Danny Galbraith's feelings aren't the most important thing in the world right now, but you'd like to see guys happy at the club and willing to do something for us. And you'd guess thats a fairly pissed off player tonight.

J-C
17-09-2011, 07:30 PM
No sorry 2 poor subs Sodje and Agogo dont move same type of player - I have now gave up on Calderwood - if he cant make sure his players can behave on pitch well

I agree, just thought this may have been his reason for doing so, as I couldn't fathom out why myself.

Stevie Reid
17-09-2011, 07:56 PM
I would agree with him, I thought O'Connor could have done more for the first goal at the time and should perhaps have closed down the pass down the line, he did not. I would add I have not seen the goals again at the time. O'Connor was booked and decided that he could have all sorts of shouting matches with the ref, if he gets himself sent off we are down to 10 men and maybe lose the game..I am sure CC would have been getting pelters for not taking O'Connor off sooner if that was the case. So I agree with him coming off, lets be honest in the first half he was minging.

I thought Griffiths was looking tired and starting to fly into challanges, the ball was also not being held up at all and thus putting us under more pressure. In addition I dont remember Griffiths actually doing anything all game. Why people were so surprised when he came off I dont know.

I agreed with the changes he made, would I have made them both at the same time, I dont know, but he will know better than me. The changes had no effect on the goal, Towell, Palsson and again a goal coming from / to the left CH - how many is that this season? at least 4 or 5 I think.

I have said before that your defence of CC was admirable to an extent, but now it is bordering on irrational, quite frankly - the double substitution that he made today was an unmitigated disaster, and there is absolutely no way it can be defended. We looked dangerous in attack the whole game up to that point, and for the first 5 minutes of the second half we looked as if we could score every time we went up the park - O'Connor had two good chances before the goal (including one from a through ball by Griffiths I think, though I could be wrong), and whilst losing the goal immediately after the second was a massive blow, the double substitution was far more damaging. We didn't have a single meaningful attack after they went off, which meant we were under even more pressure from Dunfermline.

O'Connor was monumentally stupid for getting booked, but why was there a concern that he might get sent off exactly? How many red cards has he had in his career, and when have we ever had any concerns about his on-field discipline? I can't recall it being a consideration with him before - and surely the fact that he has scored 80% of our SPL goals should be the biggest consideration, no? To suggest that he was too much of a risk to last half an hour on a booking when playing centre forward is laughable - yes, he might have got sent off, similarly he might have scored a hat trick. Given the fact that he got himself in two great goal scoring positions prior to scoring the second, and that he was booked for taking his shirt off, a second goal seemed far more likely than a second yellow card.

That's all ifs buts and maybes, but then your defence of Calderwood is always ifs, buts and maybes, and it's only the facts that count - and the fact is that we ended up in a far worse position without the front two than we were in when they went off, we threw away a two goal lead and are isolated at the bottom of the league with ICT. One thing about today was that I thought that nobody could possibly try to defend CC, as this result was down to a brutally awful substitution - but I should have known better really.

It's funny how you were desperately trying to defend our awful performance against St. Mirren at Easter Road, despite that fact that we created nothing the whole game, to defend the manager - yet today when we scored two goals for the first time in the league, generally looked the most dangerous that we have all season, and had ten shots on target, you are trying to run the performance of our forwards down to defend the manager.

It's also funny how you can say "let's be honest" and state that GOC was "minging" in the first half (which is up for debate), yet you can't just be honest about how poor our manager has been for us - which is a far more clear cut case.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 12:18 AM
I have said before that your defence of CC was admirable to an extent, but now it is bordering on irrational, quite frankly - the double substitution that he made today was an unmitigated disaster, and there is absolutely no way it can be defended. We looked dangerous in attack the whole game up to that point Lets be honest they had as many, and maybe better chances in the first half than we did, if we went in down I dont think we could complain - do you and for the first 5 minutes of the second half we looked as if we could score every time we went up the park - O'Connor had two good chances before the goal (including one from a through ball by Griffiths I think, though I could be wrong), and whilst losing the goal immediately after the second was a massive blow, the double substitution was far more damaging. We didn't have a single meaningful attack after they went off, which meant we were under even more pressure from Dunfermline.

O'Connor was monumentally stupid for getting booked, but why was there a concern that he might get sent off exactly? Were you at this game / did you watch it? How many red cards has he had in his career, and when have we ever had any concerns about his on-field discipline? The most irrelevant point in this whole post, and that is saying something. Whether or not he has had a red card means absolutley nothing and I mean nothing. I can't recall it being a consideration with him before - and surely the fact that he has scored 80% of our SPL goals should be the biggest consideration, no? To suggest that he was too much of a risk to last half an hour on a booking when playing centre forward is laughable - yes, he might have got sent off, similarly he might have scored a hat trick. Given the fact that he got himself in two great goal scoring positions prior to scoring the second, and that he was booked for taking his shirt off, a second goal seemed far more likely than a second yellow card. So he gets sent off, we get beat and there is yet another stat for you to use against CC. As you say below if buts and maybes...but here is a simple one for you - would you rather have 11 players on the park or 10?

That's all ifs buts and maybes, but then your defence of Calderwood is always ifs, buts and maybes, and it's only the facts that count - and the fact is that we ended up in a far worse position without the front two than we were in when they went off, we threw away a two goal lead and are isolated at the bottom of the league with ICT. One thing about today was that I thought that nobody could possibly try to defend CC, as this result was down to a brutally awful substitution - but I should have known better really. The subs had nothing to do with the goal, the goal was coming, if you were at the game you would have seen that. My mate said about 2mins before there second, that he did not think we were taking three points. I would say before you go having a shot at CC look at Towell, Palsson, Sproule, Booth. Almost half the team, but from where I was sitting (and I admit i need to see it again) about half of our outfield failed to stop.

It's funny how you were desperately trying to defend our awful performance against St. Mirren at Easter Road, despite that fact that we created nothing the whole game, to defend the manager - yet today when we scored two goals for the first time in the league, generally looked the most dangerous that we have all season, and had ten shots on target, you are trying to run the performance of our forwards down to defend the manager. I have been pretty clear on where our down fall was, try reading before you come out with the usual lies about what I have said, see my first post of today I am pretty certain that I stated we defended poorly as a team and parts of our defence as well. I did not say we drew today because of our fowards, nor did I say I say it was down to the subs. We are two goals up, the 11 on the park need to shut the door for 10 mins minimum, get organised as a team and do their jobs.

It's also funny how you can say "let's be honest" and state that GOC was "minging" in the first half (which is up for debate), yet you can't just be honest about how poor our manager has been for us - which is a far more clear cut case.

See the bits in bold, you are on a real big run of nonsence talking.

TrickyNicky
18-09-2011, 02:30 AM
Here's why he took them off.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/scot_prem/14864175.stm ( second interview down ).

Expecting Rain
18-09-2011, 08:36 AM
The substitutions were inexplicable and inexcusable and gave Dunfermline the impetus and confidence to drive on for an equaliser and a possible winner, thankfully they did not get the latter but Calderwoods decisions are becoming ridiculous.

JimBHibees
18-09-2011, 11:21 AM
I would agree with him, I thought O'Connor could have done more for the first goal at the time and should perhaps have closed down the pass down the line, he did not. I would add I have not seen the goals again at the time. O'Connor was booked and decided that he could have all sorts of shouting matches with the ref, if he gets himself sent off we are down to 10 men and maybe lose the game..I am sure CC would have been getting pelters for not taking O'Connor off sooner if that was the case. So I agree with him coming off, lets be honest in the first half he was minging.

I thought Griffiths was looking tired and starting to fly into challanges, the ball was also not being held up at all and thus putting us under more pressure. In addition I dont remember Griffiths actually doing anything all game. Why people were so surprised when he came off I dont know.

I agreed with the changes he made, would I have made them both at the same time, I dont know, but he will know better than me. The changes had no effect on the goal, Towell, Palsson and again a goal coming from / to the left CH - how many is that this season? at least 4 or 5 I think.

Incredible that anyone is defending that decision. Griffiths to me looked pretty sharp all game and set up GOC not long before Garry scored. To take both off for two very immobile forwards was staggering to me at the time and was evidenced by the fact they both contributed nothing from then on against IMO a very average looking Pars defence.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 11:50 AM
Incredible that anyone is defending that decision. Griffiths to me looked pretty sharp all game and set up GOC not long before Garry scored. To take both off for two very immobile forwards was staggering to me at the time and was evidenced by the fact they both contributed nothing from then on against IMO a very average looking Pars defence.

Why is it incredible, because the football experts of hibs net say it was not the right thing to do? The second goal was coming before the subs were made, he has tried to change it to get hold and keep the ball more - how many times did O'Connor / Griffiths win the ball up front yesterday. I would also go back to the fact that O'Connor looked like he was on the edge of getting himself sent off, do you think it would make sense to leave him on, have him sent off and play 30 mins with 10 men?

Hainan Hibs
18-09-2011, 11:56 AM
Why is it incredible, because the football experts of hibs net say it was not the right thing to do? The second goal was coming before the subs were made, he has tried to change it to get hold and keep the ball more - how many times did O'Connor / Griffiths win the ball up front yesterday. I would also go back to the fact that O'Connor looked like he was on the edge of getting himself sent off, do you think it would make sense to leave him on, have him sent off and play 30 mins with 10 men?

Having Agogo and Sodje upfront was the equivalent of playing with 9, so 30 minutes with 10 players would have been preferable.

YehButNoBut
18-09-2011, 11:57 AM
Why is it incredible, because the football experts of hibs net say it was not the right thing to do? The second goal was coming before the subs were made, he has tried to change it to get hold and keep the ball more - how many times did O'Connor / Griffiths win the ball up front yesterday. I would also go back to the fact that O'Connor looked like he was on the edge of getting himself sent off, do you think it would make sense to leave him on, have him sent off and play 30 mins with 10 men?

Can't see how you can justify that decision as both Griffiths & O'Connor were giving the Pars defence problems and we looked like scoring a few times. After the substitution we never looked like scoring and just because Gary got booked does not mean he was a certainty to get sent off (his record in that department isn't bad). IMO CC decision to sub them both cost us the game and was another inept decision by an inept manager.

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Can't see how you can justify that decision as both Griffiths & O'Connor were giving the Pars defence problems and we looked like scoring a few times. After the substitution we never looked like scoring and just because Gary got booked does not mean he was a certainty to get sent off (his record in that department isn't bad). IMO CC decision to sub them both cost us the game and was another inept decision by an inept manager.

They were giving Dunfermline problems....other than the shot O'Connor missed 10 mins before, what problems were they giving them? After they scored we looked poor and they had more and more of the ball, I would love to know how much in fact. I am sure neither griffiths nor oconnor touched the ball.

As for oconnors record, that is completely irrelevant, as on the basis of what you say he will never be sent off in his career as he has not been sent off so far. After Dunfermline scored oconnor dished out plenty of chat to the ref, it was more than possible he could have gone for his cards after that.

IMO CC knows more about football and what to do than any of us, so perhaps the enept fans should concentrate on supporting rather than trying to start off another game of managerial merry go round.

YehButNoBut
18-09-2011, 12:08 PM
They were giving Dunfermline problems....other than the shot O'Connor missed 10 mins before, what problems were they giving them? After they scored we looked poor and they had more and more of the ball, I would love to know how much in fact. I am sure neither griffiths nor oconnor touched the ball.

As for oconnors record, that is completely irrelevant, as on the basis of what you say he will never be sent off in his career as he has not been sent off so far. After Dunfermline scored oconnor dished out plenty of chat to the ref, it was more than possible he could have gone for his cards after that.

IMO CC knows more about football and what to do than any of us, so perhaps the enept fans should concentrate on supporting rather than trying to start off another game of managerial merry go round.

OK CC, but I can't agree with the bit in bold. :rolleyes:

Wotherspiniesta
18-09-2011, 12:28 PM
Why is it incredible, because the football experts of hibs net say it was not the right thing to do? The second goal was coming before the subs were made, he has tried to change it to get hold and keep the ball more - how many times did O'Connor / Griffiths win the ball up front yesterday. I would also go back to the fact that O'Connor looked like he was on the edge of getting himself sent off, do you think it would make sense to leave him on, have him sent off and play 30 mins with 10 men?

Your constant ripping of people's opinions on this board is getting so boring.

Especially when you're the only one on here defending his ridiculous double sub.

But then again, you're the expert eh? :rolleyes:

JimBHibees
18-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Why is it incredible, because the football experts of hibs net say it was not the right thing to do? The second goal was coming before the subs were made, he has tried to change it to get hold and k
eep the ball more - how many times did O'Connor / Griffiths win the ball up front yesterday. I would also go back to the fact that O'Connor looked like he was on the edge of getting himself sent off, do you think it would make sense to leave him on, have him sent off and play 30 mins with 10 men?

GOC set up the first goal, scored the second, had a great chance saved and then the goalie blocked him after a header hit the bar.

Sparky was coming into the game and had brilliantly set up GOC. His movement off the ball was causing their slowish centre backs problems.

Not just hibs net experts who were querying the decision both commentators did as did JC and tangoman.

Can you explain the improvement the inspired substitution of Sodje and Agogo had on the game?

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 12:50 PM
Your constant ripping of people's opinions on this board is getting so boring.

Especially when you're the only one on here defending his ridiculous double sub.

But then again, you're the expert eh? :rolleyes:

Dont be such a mug, and read before you comment. My initial comment on this thread was in response to what CC said, thereafter was in debate with people commenting on what I said / ripping my point of view. Read before you comment.

What you are effectively saying is I am not allowed to disagree with anyone on here, and I am wrong because I am defending the double sub, which I think you will find my initial response was I dont know if I would have done the same, but CC will know better than me...and you, unless of course you are Sir Alex just killing a bit of time before this afternoons game Mr Footbal expert eh?!

I did see this article and thought of you http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits

Wotherspiniesta
18-09-2011, 01:16 PM
Dont be such a mug, and read before you comment. My initial comment on this thread was in response to what CC said, thereafter was in debate with people commenting on what I said / ripping my point of view. Read before you comment.

What you are effectively saying is I am not allowed to disagree with anyone on here, and I am wrong because I am defending the double sub, which I think you will find my initial response was I dont know if I would have done the same, but CC will know better than me...and you, unless of course you are Sir Alex just killing a bit of time before this afternoons game Mr Footbal expert eh?!

I did see this article and thought of you http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits

CC doesn't know much better than you.

John Collins knows better than you.

Tangoman knows better than you.

Sir Alex Ferguson knows better than you.

Andy Gray knows better than you.

I know better than you.

But most importantly, the experts on:hnet: know a **** load better than you.

jdships
18-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Interesting watching the flak that ALBION HIBS is taking for simply putting forward his opinion :confused:
What happened to the " democratic right to express ones views without fear of reprisal " as laid down in UK/Scot's Law :rolleyes:
Am not defending AH's as such as he is qute able to that himself but a lot of posters are simply expressing opinions just as he is - so come on guys fairs fair surely ?
If you deny people the right to an opinion you might as well shut the forum down
:flag:

Albion Hibs
18-09-2011, 01:38 PM
CC doesn't know much better than you.

John Collins knows better than you.

Tangoman knows better than you.

Sir Alex Ferguson knows better than you.

Andy Gray knows better than you.

I know better than you.

But most importantly, the experts on:hnet: know a **** load better than you.

Yeah, course you do!

connerg
18-09-2011, 02:01 PM
Surely the most inept, poorly thought out double substitution in living memory!

Gary O was putting enormous pressure on thier defence, scored one and won an aerial challenge to help set up the first one.

His consistent pressure meant that the pars could not build from the back.

LG was not as effective as Gary O' but did set up Ivan's goal and was getting closer and closer.

Take them both off!!!?????

From that opint HIbs lost momentum and nearly the match.

CC pick up your bags of sweets and please go.

He just doesnt have a clue.

:top marks Both of them looked dangerous and motivated, then clueless Colin subs them. FFS.

nortonhibby
18-09-2011, 04:00 PM
:top marks Both of them looked dangerous and motivated, then clueless Colin subs them. FFS.

It cost us 2 points its as simple as that it was CCs call he made it he blew it but he was happy to take the point as stated in his post match clown show:confused:

Tyler Durden
18-09-2011, 07:33 PM
Interesting watching the flak that ALBION HIBS is taking for simply putting forward his opinion :confused:
What happened to the " democratic right to express ones views without fear of reprisal " as laid down in UK/Scot's Law :rolleyes:
Am not defending AH's as such as he is qute able to that himself but a lot of posters are simply expressing opinions just as he is - so come on guys fairs fair surely ?
If you deny people the right to an opinion you might as well shut the forum down
:flag:

I don't see anyone denying Albion his right to his own opinion. People are merely saying that he's talking p*sh - which he is. Him and Calderwood are welcome to each other.

Wotherspiniesta
18-09-2011, 07:44 PM
I don't see anyone denying Albion his right to his own opinion. People are merely saying that he's talking p*sh - which he is. Him and Calderwood are welcome to each other.

:agree:

Nobody is denying him the right to have an opinion, but when you talk as much pish as Albion Hibs, you've got to expect some pelters.

jdships
18-09-2011, 08:18 PM
:agree:

Nobody is denying him the right to have an opinion, but when you talk as much pish as Albion Hibs, you've got to expect some pelters.


Those that are giving him "pelters" are mostly the ones who "cry foul" when their opinions are criticised :greengrin:wink:
" If you can't take it don't give it " comes to mind.

:bye:

jdships
18-09-2011, 08:21 PM
I don't see anyone denying Albion his right to his own opinion. People are merely saying that he's talking p*sh - which he is. Him and Calderwood are welcome to each other.

That's you expressing an opinion , is it not ? :greengrin
Something you are entitled to do - as is Albion Hibs :agree:

Stevie Reid
19-09-2011, 09:10 AM
I have said before that your defence of CC was admirable to an extent, but now it is bordering on irrational, quite frankly - the double substitution that he made today was an unmitigated disaster, and there is absolutely no way it can be defended. We looked dangerous in attack the whole game up to that point Lets be honest they had as many, and maybe better chances in the first half than we did, if we went in down I dont think we could complain - do you and for the first 5 minutes of the second half we looked as if we could score every time we went up the park - O'Connor had two good chances before the goal (including one from a through ball by Griffiths I think, though I could be wrong), and whilst losing the goal immediately after the second was a massive blow, the double substitution was far more damaging. We didn't have a single meaningful attack after they went off, which meant we were under even more pressure from Dunfermline.

O'Connor was monumentally stupid for getting booked, but why was there a concern that he might get sent off exactly? Were you at this game / did you watch it? How many red cards has he had in his career, and when have we ever had any concerns about his on-field discipline? The most irrelevant point in this whole post, and that is saying something. Whether or not he has had a red card means absolutley nothing and I mean nothing. I can't recall it being a consideration with him before - and surely the fact that he has scored 80% of our SPL goals should be the biggest consideration, no? To suggest that he was too much of a risk to last half an hour on a booking when playing centre forward is laughable - yes, he might have got sent off, similarly he might have scored a hat trick. Given the fact that he got himself in two great goal scoring positions prior to scoring the second, and that he was booked for taking his shirt off, a second goal seemed far more likely than a second yellow card. So he gets sent off, we get beat and there is yet another stat for you to use against CC. As you say below if buts and maybes...but here is a simple one for you - would you rather have 11 players on the park or 10?

That's all ifs buts and maybes, but then your defence of Calderwood is always ifs, buts and maybes, and it's only the facts that count - and the fact is that we ended up in a far worse position without the front two than we were in when they went off, we threw away a two goal lead and are isolated at the bottom of the league with ICT. One thing about today was that I thought that nobody could possibly try to defend CC, as this result was down to a brutally awful substitution - but I should have known better really. The subs had nothing to do with the goal, the goal was coming, if you were at the game you would have seen that. My mate said about 2mins before there second, that he did not think we were taking three points. I would say before you go having a shot at CC look at Towell, Palsson, Sproule, Booth. Almost half the team, but from where I was sitting (and I admit i need to see it again) about half of our outfield failed to stop.

It's funny how you were desperately trying to defend our awful performance against St. Mirren at Easter Road, despite that fact that we created nothing the whole game, to defend the manager - yet today when we scored two goals for the first time in the league, generally looked the most dangerous that we have all season, and had ten shots on target, you are trying to run the performance of our forwards down to defend the manager. I have been pretty clear on where our down fall was, try reading before you come out with the usual lies about what I have said, see my first post of today I am pretty certain that I stated we defended poorly as a team and parts of our defence as well. I did not say we drew today because of our fowards, nor did I say I say it was down to the subs. We are two goals up, the 11 on the park need to shut the door for 10 mins minimum, get organised as a team and do their jobs.

It's also funny how you can say "let's be honest" and state that GOC was "minging" in the first half (which is up for debate), yet you can't just be honest about how poor our manager has been for us - which is a far more clear cut case.


See the bits in bold, you are on a real big run of nonsence talking.

Regarding your bits in bold: -

1) Yes, they looked like they could score often as well and we were lucky to be ahead at half time, but that's besides the point - we're talking about our forwards here, and they looked dangerous up until the 60th minute when they went off.

2/3) Yes I watched the game, and had absolutely zero concerns that O'Connor would get sent off. The fact that you state that his disciplinary record is irrelevant is laughable, of course it's relevant. I note that you make reference to him "dishing out plenty" to the referee, I think you may actually be making reference to an incident at the start of the second half when a foul was given against GOC and he turned round and had a real go - but that was at whoever made the pass for not releasing the ball earlier, not the referee. You state in another post that O'Connor was on the edge of getting sent off - I couldn't disagree more.

4) Right then - I wanted him to get sent off so that we could get beat. I'd rather have our top scorer on the park as ALL the evidence, both on the day and in his whole career, points to the fact that he was far more likely to score again than get sent off.

5) Losing a goal so quickly after scoring our second was a huge blow, but that was compounded by us taking GOC and Griffiths off almost immediately afterwards - how do you think Dunfermline's players and supporters felt when they saw those two coming off? The subs were a downer for us and a huge psychological boost for them, giving their team and support a lift at a crucial time, and had the double effect of putting us even more pressure due to us not having any more meaningful attacks, and allowing Dunfermline to continually attack us. I wouldn't have fancied our chances of not conceding a second even if the subs weren't made, the defence and midfield looked poor the whole game - but I would have fancied us to score again, and that just makes it all the worse that he removed the best part of our whole team in one go.

6) I'm not lying about what you have said at all, maybe try reading what I am saying. You said that O'Connor was "minging" in the first half and on the verge of being sent off in the second, and said that you were surprised that people were surprised that Griffiths was taken off, such was his contribution - being overly critical of their performance to justify the manager's decision to take them off. Yet after the St. Mirren game, where we were awful and created nothing, you were talking up the performance of the team to defend the manager. Yes you have made it clear that the whole team was at fault, saying that our midfield and back four was poor is a simple statement of fact, no one's going to disagree with that. But your refusal to see the substitutions as a pivotal moment in the game is just blinkered IMO - GOC and Griffiths contributed way more than Sodje and Agogo, in every way that you can measure it - that is what counts here.

Stevie Reid
19-09-2011, 11:06 AM
Why is it incredible, because the football experts of hibs net say it was not the right thing to do?

Mickey Weir wasn't impressed either, which is hardly surprising: -


I don't think our cause was helped by the double substitution made in the second half with Akpo Sodje and Junior Agogo replacing Garry O'Connor and Leigh Griffiths. I felt we lost the momentum going forward as that was our opportunity to close the game out and, had we scored a third, I don't think there would have been any way back for Dunfermline.

And LG himself: -


Colin Calderwood's decision to take off O'Connor and Griffiths after 60 minutes was not vindicated as Hibs, 2-1 up at the time, were left to settle for just a point after on-loan Hearts defender Jason Thomson powered home an equaliser for Dunfermline only moments later. Griffiths was surprised at the double substitution, not least the call to withdraw his strike partner.

"He (Calderwood] thought it was the right decision and thought it would pay off but obviously, with the result in the end, it didn't," said Griffiths, who is on loan English Premier League outfit Wolverhampton.

"I thought maybe I would have come off and they'd have kept Gaz on because he was running them ragged. Gaz was more surprised than what I was to come off, but the manager thought it was the right decision."