Scottish football and black players [Archive]

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lucky

13-09-2011, 08:36 PM

Hibstrooper

13-09-2011, 08:42 PM

Was having a discussion today with a colleague over the debate in English football about only having two black managers and very few coaches. It got us on to Scottish football, has any team ever had a black captain, coach or manager? the only player we came up with was Paul Elliot at Celtic but even then we were not sure. Anyone know of any more?

Did Latapy perhaps ever captain Hibs? Just for a game or after a substitution?

Edit: Forgot Falkirk, he must have captained them at some point!

Edit 2: John Barnes!

DC_Hibs

13-09-2011, 08:43 PM

Was having a discussion today with a colleague over the debate in English football about only having two black managers and very few coaches. It got us on to Scottish football, has any team ever had a black captain, coach or manager? the only player we came up with was Paul Elliot at Celtic but even then we were not sure. Anyone know of any more?

Jimmy Calderwood although he isn't actually of black origin.

Skanko79

13-09-2011, 08:45 PM

did livvy not have a black brazilian manager?

Dirkster23

13-09-2011, 08:46 PM

John Barnes was manager at Celtic.

zlatan

13-09-2011, 08:55 PM

Marvin Andrews would most certainly have been Livi captain at some point.

lucky

13-09-2011, 09:05 PM

John Barnes was manager at Celtic.

Good shout, but he was actually worse than CC

DH1875

13-09-2011, 09:18 PM

Marvin Andrews would most certainly have been Livi captain at some point.

Raith Rovers as well :agree:.

Future17

13-09-2011, 09:46 PM

I'm fairly certain that Henrik Larsson captained Celtic on occassion.

givescotlandfreedom

13-09-2011, 10:12 PM

Did Sol Bamba never captain us on occasion? He seems to have in this friendly 7649

DH1875

13-09-2011, 10:20 PM

Did Sol Bamba never captain us on occasion? He seems to have in this friendly 7649

I was just going to say that :aok:. I'm also sure that the first black guy (1890s?) to play for Scotland also captained them.

marinello59

13-09-2011, 10:23 PM

I was just going to say that :aok:. I'm also sure that the first black guy (1890s?) to play for Scotland also captained them.

Andrew Watson?

Jonnyboy

13-09-2011, 10:26 PM

Andrew Watson?

Good old Wiki :greengrin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Watson_%28footballer%29

marinello59

13-09-2011, 10:29 PM

Good old Wiki :greengrin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Watson_%28footballer%29

It ain't that good.:greengrin
There was a black manager who enjoyed success with a non-league team in the Scottish Cup before briefly managing an SFL side. I just can't remember his name though. Would have been 10 - 15 years ago now. Or I may have just imagined it.

marinello59

13-09-2011, 10:32 PM

Raith Rovers as well :agree:.

Raith Rovers ----Claude Anelka managed them .

LaMotta

13-09-2011, 10:36 PM

It ain't that good.:greengrin
There was a black manager who enjoyed success with a non-league team in the Scottish Cup before briefly managing an SFL side. I just can't remember his name though. Would have been 10 - 15 years ago now. Or I may have just imagined it.

Dave Smith at Whitehill Welfare and possibly Gala Fairydean could be who you're thinking of?

bob12345

14-09-2011, 12:10 AM

The Dumbarton skipper who died in a car crash, Glennon I think his name was.

Wotherspiniesta

14-09-2011, 12:11 AM

Did Bobo Balde not captain Celtic for a bit?

DaveF

14-09-2011, 07:26 AM

Dave Smith at Whitehill Welfare and possibly Gala Fairydean could be who you're thinking of?

Will be him. Managed Montrose (or was it Arbroath?) for a little while before going back to Juniors.

Gettin' Auld

14-09-2011, 08:03 AM

Erm...............Kenny Black?

:greengrin

Craig_in_Prague

14-09-2011, 08:44 AM

This was discussed on goals on sunday with Les Ferdinand.
He said he knows some people that have just not bothered going for coaching badges or gave up with it, as they feel they'll not get any opportunities anyway.

what a terrible thing and is rather disgusting to be honest that racism clearly is a big issue in the sport.

bob12345

14-09-2011, 09:11 AM

I know numerous white people who have the same issue about taking the coaching badges. The whole industry is about who you know, very surprised if there's any racism in it.

DaveF

14-09-2011, 09:38 AM

I know numerous white people who have the same issue about taking the coaching badges. The whole industry is about who you know, very surprised if there's any racism in it.

Yep, I think that's probably more accurate than the alleged racism angle.

There was a discussion on 5Live with Jason Roberts about it - They were pointing to the American example (The Rooney Report I think?) where statistics show that since it was compuslary to interview black or ethnic candidates for NFL coaching jobs, the number of black \ ethnic coaches has risen from 6% to 22%.

The case being made was that only the interviews were compulsary - The job did not have to be given. However, they neglected to extend the point (or at least I didn't hear it) that perhaps the next step down the line for those clubs who interviewed but didn't select black candidates was to have some finger pointing, subtle pressure put upon them to explain why their last 'x' number of appointments have all been white, and it was something I would like to have heard Jason Roberts comment on.

greenlad

14-09-2011, 05:17 PM

However, they neglected to extend the point (or at least I didn't hear it) that perhaps the next step down the line for those clubs who interviewed but didn't select black candidates was to have some finger pointing, subtle pressure put upon them to explain why their last 'x' number of appointments have all been white, ....

An incredibly sinister development if that came to pass in the name of "Positive Discrimination" (a contradiction in terms if ever there was one). Clubs should have the freedom to choose whoever they want as players/management purely on basis of experience/ability/any other factor they deem relevant regardless of race/nationality/gender/sexuality and there certainly shouldn't be a situation where clubs feel pressured to ignore a superior white candidates just to meet a perceived racial quota by appointing a black candidate who isn't up to scratch.

Ironically enough in Scottish terms there is a case for saying that Black players are actually overrepresented. The statistics show that Scotland is an overwhelmingly white country and yet most of the teams in the SPL at least have a few blacks playing for them (mostly from England/France). Without trying to sound like Enoch Powell if the SPL applied quota legislation akin to the NFL you would actually be asking Scottish teams why they don't sign more white Scots along with Poles and Pakistani's too as they are underrepresented.

Dirkster23

15-09-2011, 06:00 PM

Jimmy Calderwood although he isn't actually of black origin. I've just seen CC on the BBC news and he must be darker than JC these days!

Deeklipse

16-09-2011, 08:09 AM

Jimmy Calderwood although he isn't actually of black origin.

Read the rest of the thread and still laughing at this :greengrin

Maybe there should be a MOBO (Manager of Black Origin) award?

Dashing Bob S

16-09-2011, 10:37 AM

Jimmy Calderwood although he isn't actually of black origin.

:top marks

Dashing Bob S

16-09-2011, 10:38 AM

Meant to add that Jimmy Calderwood is the Michael Jackson of Scottish football, but that's probably unfair to previous managers, fans and players of HMFC.

Keith_M

16-09-2011, 12:05 PM

Slightly off topic but, I've always wondered why there are so few Asian (by which I mean Indian sub-continent) players in the UK.

The largest Ethnic minority groups are of Indian and Pakistani origin but I'd struggle to name one that plays in Scotland and couldn't name many that play in England.

Lucius Apuleius

17-09-2011, 06:08 AM