Super Caldo v Def Duffmeister

[Dashing Bob S]

One for the statisticians - when will Caldo's record officially become worse than than the Duffster's?

[bawheid]

One for the statisticians - when will Caldo's record officially become worse than than the Duffster's?

Duffy managed Hibs for 48 games and won 10. Calderwood has managed Hibs for ten games less and has won 10.

However, Calderwood's Hibs have lost 22 times, only once less than Duffy's side.

At the moment, their records are comparable. It will be very interesting to see what the stats say in 10 games time, when they'll have managed Hibs for the same number of matches.

A huge two months for Calderwood.

[hibsbollah]

Duffy managed Hibs for 48 games and won 10. Calderwood has managed Hibs for ten games less and has won 10.

However, Calderwood's Hibs have lost 22 times, only once less than Duffy's side.

At the moment, their records are comparable. It will be very interesting to see what the stats say in 10 games time, when they'll have managed Hibs for the same number of matches.

A huge two months for Calderwood.

Hmmm. So Calderwood needs to amass 10 points out of the next 10 games to leap over Duffy's legendary managerial record, say 3 wins 1 draw 6 defeats.

This is a great challenge. Lets hope the players and fans get behind him as we plan for this great assault on history. Its a tall order, but if you don't aim for the moon you'll never reach the stars. Or something.

[easty]

I always wished we would get a manager who was only slightly better than Duff Jimmy. So come on CC let's get those 3 wins and a draw. Prove that dreams do come true.

[iwasthere1972]

Duffy's league record for Hibs against the Yams.

1/1/1997 Lost 4-0
15/3/1997 Lost 1-0
8/11/1997 Lost 2-0
1/1/1998 Drew 2-2

Played 4 Won 0 Lost 3 Drew 1 For 2 Against 9

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Calderwood's league record for Hibs against the Yams.

7/11/2010 Lost 2-0
1/1/2011 Lost 1-0
3/4/2011 Drew 2-2
28/8/2011 Lost 2-0

Played 4 Won 0 Lost 3 Drew 1 For 2 Against 7

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Calderwood wins on goal difference.

[bawheid]

I'm sensing sarcasm...

[woodyloon]

If we sre using comparisions....

Were Hibs not top of the SPL after 7 or 8 games before going into freefall and being relegated against Dundee United I think.

And if my memory is correct we beat Celtic on the opening day of the season, Chic Cheeko scoring the winner.

[Captain Trips]

Hmmm. So Calderwood needs to amass 10 points out of the next 10 games to leap over Duffy's legendary managerial record, say 3 wins 1 draw 3 defeats.

This is a great challenge. Lets hope the players and fans get behind him as we plan for this great assault on history. Its a tall order, but if you don't aim for the moon you'll never reach the stars. Or something.

Indeed, exciting times ahead this is what it is all about. I had always hoped to see a challenge of this magnitude.

[HibeeMG]

Hmmm. So Calderwood needs to amass 10 points out of the next 10 games to leap over Duffy's legendary managerial record, say 3 wins 1 draw 3 defeats.

This is a great challenge. Lets hope the players and fans get behind him as we plan for this great assault on history. Its a tall order, but if you don't aim for the moon you'll never reach the stars. Or something.

What are we getting out of the other 3 games? :wink:

[hibsbollah]

What are we getting out of the other 3 games? :wink:

Dammit :greengrin. Cannae count. See edit.

[Stevie Reid]

If we sre using comparisions....

Were Hibs not top of the SPL after 7 or 8 games before going into freefall and being relegated against Dundee United I think.

And if my memory is correct we beat Celtic on the opening day of the season, Chic Cheeko scoring the winner.




Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 1

Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
3 August 1997







Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Dundee United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_United_F.C.)

1 – 1

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Tannadice Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannadice_Park), Dundee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee)
17 August 1997







Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

4 – 0

Kilmarnock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilmarnock_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
23 August 1997







Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

0 – 1

Heart of Midlothian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
30 August 1997







Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

5 – 2

Dunfermline Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunfermline_Athletic_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
13 September 1997







Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Motherwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)

1 – 1

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Fir Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fir_Park), Motherwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherwell,_North_Lanarkshire)
20 September 1997







Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

1 – 1

St. Johnstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Johnstone_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
27 September 1997







12 points and one defeat from first 7 SPL games - the next game was the 4-3 home game against Rangers where we were 3-1 just after half time up and destroying them, before capitulating after we missed a great chance to go 4-1 up a(was a Rangers team including Gascoigne, Laudrup, Albertz, Negri).

This was undoubtedly the defining moment of Duffy's management career at Hibs, we went into absolute freefall after this winning only once more in his remaining 16 games.

[Stevie Reid]

Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

2 – 1

Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
3 August 1997








Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Dundee United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_United_F.C.)

1 – 1

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Tannadice Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannadice_Park), Dundee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee)
17 August 1997








Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

4 – 0

Kilmarnock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilmarnock_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
23 August 1997








Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

0 – 1

Heart of Midlothian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
30 August 1997








Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

5 – 2

Dunfermline Athletic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunfermline_Athletic_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
13 September 1997








Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Motherwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)

1 – 1

Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
Fir Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fir_Park), Motherwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherwell,_North_Lanarkshire)
20 September 1997








Premier Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League_Premier_Division)
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)

1 – 1

St. Johnstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Johnstone_F.C.)
Easter Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Road), Edinburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh)
27 September 1997








12 points and one defeat from first 7 SPL games - the next game was the 4-3 home game against Rangers where we were 3-1 just after half time up and destroying them, before capitulating after we missed a great chance to go 4-1 up a(was a Rangers team including Gascoigne, Laudrup, Albertz, Negri).

This was undoubtedly the defining moment of Duffy's management career at Hibs, we went into absolute freefall after this winning only once more in his remaining 16 games.

What's also interesting to note it you go to this page, is our attendances (go to 'show' at the end of every result): -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_Hibernian_F.C._season

T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_Hibernian_F.C._season)hey held up really pretty well, even when we were struggling badly. I know that there was fresh hope after we got McLeish on board, but even before that the numbers at ER were decent. There will be no such support should we continue in this downward trajectory this season.

[Arch Stanton]

I must say I'm mightily impressed with the way the dozen or so anti-CC crowd have been able to look like they are a cast of thousands - with that kind of dedication you should all be working in call centres - the same script over and over with a few variations to make it all sound natural.

And, of course, if anyone tries to take you off course by making other points then just get back on script pronto - done like professionals!

On the downside though one does have to wonder just what is the point of all the frenzied negativity - given that we all know CC will be in the job for a while yet (with even a poll to prove that) - are people really so very desperate to deny CC the chance to make a go of things in his own way?

btw I'm not just targeting the OP on this - there seems to be a fair choice of threads which are subtly renamed clones of other ones.

[allezsauzee]

No comparison. Duffy is the worst manager we've ever had.

[HibeeMG]

Dammit :greengrin. Cannae count. See edit.

Yep, that's how I thought it might've gone! :greengrin

[delbert]

This truly is like comparing two jobbies to see which is the smelliest !!

[Arch Stanton]

This truly is like comparing two jobbies to see which is the smelliest !!

I wouldn't know.

[easty]

This truly is like comparing two jobbies to see which is the smelliest !!

Would you call that taking the poopsie challenge?

[Dinkydoo]

Would you call that taking the poopsie challenge?


:faf:

That post has just made my day.

[majorhibs]

I must say I'm mightily impressed with the way the dozen or so anti-CC crowd have been able to look like they are a cast of thousands - with that kind of dedication you should all be working in call centres - the same script over and over with a few variations to make it all sound natural.

And, of course, if anyone tries to take you off course by making other points then just get back on script pronto - done like professionals!

On the downside though one does have to wonder just what is the point of all the frenzied negativity - given that we all know CC will be in the job for a while yet (with even a poll to prove that) - are people really so very desperate to deny CC the chance to make a go of things in his own way?

btw I'm not just targeting the OP on this - there seems to be a fair choice of threads which are subtly renamed clones of other ones.

Should that no be the dozen or so pro-CC crowd - incidentally while on about stats - how many now have you & hibsmax totalled in defending "CC"?

[CabbageBoy]

No comparison. Duffy is the worst manager we've ever had.

His team played football that p!sses all over the rubbish played under CC. At least they tried to entertain, and had a few decent results.

[Dashing Bob S]

I must say I'm mightily impressed with the way the dozen or so anti-CC crowd have been able to look like they are a cast of thousands - with that kind of dedication you should all be working in call centres - the same script over and over with a few variations to make it all sound natural.

And, of course, if anyone tries to take you off course by making other points then just get back on script pronto - done like professionals!

On the downside though one does have to wonder just what is the point of all the frenzied negativity - given that we all know CC will be in the job for a while yet (with even a poll to prove that) - are people really so very desperate to deny CC the chance to make a go of things in his own way?

btw I'm not just targeting the OP on this - there seems to be a fair choice of threads which are subtly renamed clones of other ones.


I really don't think you're being fair there sir, but if you could just hold the line a second or two while we transfer you to another thread where one of our other posters will be pleased to deal with your inquiry...

[Sir David Gray]

Duffy's overall record;

P-46
W-8
D-15
L-23

Win %-17%
Loss%-50%

Calderwood's overall record;

P-38
W-10
D-6
L-22

Win %-26%
Loss %-58%

Duffy's league record;

P-39
W-7
D-12
L-20

Win %-18%
Loss%-51%
Points per game-0.8

Calderwood's league record;

P-35
W-9
D-5
L-21

Win%-25%
Loss%-60%
Points per game-0.9

We've already lost a far higher percentage of games under Calderwood than we did under Duffy but we would need to fail to win in our next 13 matches before our win percentage would become worse under Calderwood than it was under Duffy.

If we lose our next 4 games, our points per game stats will be worse under Calderwood.

All things considered, there's really not a lot between Duffy and Calderwood but Calderwood's not quite statistically as bad.

[Captain Trips]

I think that CC at this moment has a close record to one of our worst managers and this comparison is what 12/13 years on since Duffy really does indicate a severe problem at ER.

Since Duffy our off the field activity has changed dramatically and probably for better, we have had highs and lows but we remain very inconsistant, the last few years have seen a lot of managers come and go with a 4th place finish once in last 5 seasons which this far down the line is totally unacceptable.

Maybe some managers have not had enough time but IMO this board have had plenty of time to have Hibs in right place, if they are sacking managers after 18mths due to not getting the desired football results why are the board still in place whom have overseen a once in 5 year top 4 finish with a 10th place in there too, the football side of the business is a failure IMO and it has been failing long before CC arrived and continues now.

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

His team played football that p!sses all over the rubbish played under CC. At least they tried to entertain, and had a few decent results.

:agree:
At least there was a few goals scored as well. When was the last time we scored more than 1,2 or 3 in a (league) game? :confused:

[Wheat Hound]

:agree:At least there was a few goals scored as well. When was the last time we scored more than 1,2 or 3 in a (league) game? :confused: Under CC we have scored 3 against Rangers and no more than 2 goals in any other spl game. A truly disgraceful record that speaks volumes in itself notwithstanding the dreadful amount of losses and the fact we're bottom of the spl for the first time in a while.

[nortonhibby]

Duffy's overall record;

P-46
W-8
D-15
L-23

Win %-17%
Loss%-50%

Calderwood's overall record;

P-38
W-10
D-6
L-22

Win %-26%
Loss %-58%

Duffy's league record;

P-39
W-7
D-12
L-20

Win %-18%
Loss%-51%
Points per game-0.8

Calderwood's league record;

P-35
W-9
D-5
L-21

Win%-25%
Loss%-60%
Points per game-0.9

We've already lost a far higher percentage of games under Calderwood than we did under Duffy but we would need to fail to win in our next 13 matches before our win percentage would become worse under Calderwood than it was under Duffy.

If we lose our next 4 games, our points per game stats will be worse under Calderwood.

All things considered, there's really not a lot between Duffy and Calderwood but Calderwood's not quite statistically as bad.

Yes we all know this but and a big but to throw into the mix no one ever came in for the Duffster half way through his rein and offered hard cash to take him down south.

RP As we al know is cash driven, in his head he must have thought he was on to a winner with CC.

The fact that NF Tried to get him as well as CH At Birmingham i think confued RPs Judgement.

If these approaches had not happened IMO CC would be gone by now.

RP Has staked everything on CC Delivering what TM Did for us and RP Will see it all the way its him or us now he will either win a watch will RP or get the can CC Is his lifeline.:flag:

Good luck RP you are going to need it.

[Sir David Gray]

:agree:
At least there was a few goals scored as well. When was the last time we scored more than 1,2 or 3 in a (league) game? :confused:

The last time we scored more than once in a single game was the last derby of last season (2-2), which was in April. We've gone 14 games in a row with only scoring, at best, one goal per game.

We only scored three goals in a single game on two occasions last season. The 3-0 win at Ibrox and the 3-2 win at Fir Park on the opening day of last season.

The last time we scored more than 3 goals in a game was the infamous 6-6 game at Fir Park at the end of the 09/10 season.

The last time we scored more than two goals in a league game at Easter Road was in January 2010, when we beat Hamilton 5-1. We've played 29 league games at Easter Road since that match.

[nortonhibby]

The last time we scored more than once in a single game was the last derby of last season (2-2), which was in April. We've gone 14 games in a row with only scoring, at best, one goal per game.

We only scored three goals in a single game on two occasions last season. The 3-0 win at Ibrox and the 3-2 win at Fir Park on the opening day of last season.

The last time we scored more than 3 goals in a game was the infamous 6-6 game at Fir Park at the end of the 09/10 season.

The last time we scored more than two goals in a league game at Easter Road was in January 2010, when we beat Hamilton 5-1. We've played 29 league games at Easter Road since that match.

Does RP go to all the games ? does he see what we are seeing ? the mind boggles :confused:

[Makaveli]

Without wanting to be negative for its own sake, it's worth bearing in mind that CC has had a higher proportion of games against other gash sides. This makes his comparable record all the more frightening.

Obviously we had the bottom six - five games against the five worst sides (bar our lot) - and the SPL has two extra clubs who would have been in the 1st division in Duffy's day... so CC has had better chances to pick up points.

[nortonhibby]

Without wanting to be negative for its own sake, it's worth bearing in mind that CC has had a higher proportion of games against other gash sides. This makes his comparable record all the more frightening.

Obviously we had the bottom six - five games against the five worst sides (bar our lot) - and the SPL has two extra clubs who would have been in the 1st division in Duffy's day... so CC has had better chances to pick up points.

This fact makes it worse:confused:

[Sir David Gray]

Without wanting to be negative for its own sake, it's worth bearing in mind that CC has had a higher proportion of games against other gash sides. This makes his comparable record all the more frightening.

Obviously we had the bottom six - five games against the five worst sides (bar our lot) - and the SPL has two extra clubs who would have been in the 1st division in Duffy's day... so CC has had better chances to pick up points.

:agree: Out of his 46 matches in charge, Duffy faced the Old Firm on 10 occasions. In his 38 matches, Calderwood has faced the Old Firm on 5 occasions.

[nortonhibby]

h-ly
:agree: Out of his 46 matches in charge, Duffy faced the Old Firm on 10 occasions. In his 38 matches, Calderwood has faced the Old Firm on 5 occasions.

on this evidence CC is worse :confused:

[Captain Trips]

I think it is quite clear that CC has a poor record that unfortunatly is being compared to Duff Jimmy, I keep hearing time is needed, the situation we have is for me what has changed from game 1 to game 38?

I see no real difference in the team or the way we play IMO after 38 matches I think that is enough time to show something surely? Are we looking for 20+ match unbeaten run as soon as CC took over? No but I expected something to happen not more of the same, then more then even more.

We have a lot of at best average players with a couple of good players just like we did at the start of the regime, we have a host of short term contracts and players who have contracts due to expire either in January or at seasons end meaning good possibility of yet another rebuild just like at start of regime.

CC going will not sort out the problems at ER it has simply got to be changes at a higher level, the board have had years to get things right and havent they have had more time than last 3 managers and yet here we are discussing and it has merit that CC has a record closer to Duff Jimmy than a more succesful manager that is a disgrace in 2011.

CC has got to go along with the people running this football club, they have proved that on the park they are not fit for purpose, they sack managers whom do not deliver yet they stated we should be challenging for Europe and going far in cups, well you have managed Europe once in 5 seasons since our success in CIS there have been some shockers, the board have failed to deliver what they said over a far longer period than any manager got.

[hibsbollah]

The last time we scored more than two goals in a league game at Easter Road was in January 2010, when we beat Hamilton 5-1. We've played 29 league games at Easter Road since that match.

That stat is quite incredible. 'all for goals and glory' indeed.

[Septimus]

I seem to recall that Duffy, a well respected and cultured defender in his playing days, brought players in from the lower divisions in Scotland. Calderwood, an equally respected former player is grubbing about in the nether regions of the English leagues or the "unattached" columns for players to move us forward. If nothing else both these men should be able to identify a good defender.

The true salvation of Hibs lies in the bringing forward of products from our own youth system. Why, when promotion comes for these boys do they now not seem to be quite up to it? The money has been invested. East Mains should now be buzzing with potential stars who are being taught to play football in the true tradition of Hibernian FC.

We are in danger of being completely eclipsed by our neighbours.

[bawheid]

I seem to recall that Duffy, a well respected and cultured defender in his playing days, brought players in from the lower divisions in Scotland. Calderwood, an equally respected former player is grubbing about in the nether regions of the English leagues or the "unattached" columns for players to move us forward. If nothing else both these men should be able to identify a good defender.

The true salvation of Hibs lies in the bringing forward of products from our own youth system. Why, when promotion comes for these boys do they now not seem to be quite up to it? The money has been invested. East Mains should now be buzzing with potential stars who are being taught to play football in the true tradition of Hibernian FC.

We are in danger of being completely eclipsed by our neighbours.

First bold: Osbourne, O'Connor, Thornhill, Palsson, Griffiths, Towell....nether regions of the English leagues? Bollocks son.

Second bold: :hmmm: What have they got to do with it???

[Captain Trips]

No matter where we get these players from are they good enough? some might be, again what is alarming is basically all our strikers contracts run out either during or at end of season, that IMO is just one of the reasons we are where we are, no long term stratagy just bring in folk for 6,12 mths then rebuild as we are generally to pi55 to keep any of the ones who turn out ok.

For CC and the board to have situations like this is a farce.

[Septimus]

First bold: Osbourne, O'Connor, Thornhill, Palsson, Griffiths, Towell....nether regions of the English leagues? Bollocks son.

Second bold: :hmmm: What have they got to do with it???

With the exception of O'Conner these are hardly household names in the upper reaches of the English leagues. They are all peripheral players.

My concern is that success tends to attract and youngsters who might otherwise come to us as supporters or possibly players may well go to the more successful team.

Thanks for the "son". That has made my day.

[Nailrod]

The true salvation of Hibs lies in the bringing forward of products from our own youth system. Why, when promotion comes for these boys do they now not seem to be quite up to it? The money has been invested. East Mains should now be buzzing with potential stars who are being taught to play football in the true tradition of Hibernian FC.
The difference between the good and the great at the highest level in any sport is in the head, not the body. That has to apply even more to young players just trying to break through at the top level.

For years we have been bringing our most promising young players into a mediocre first team that is full of fourth-rate journeymen. What else would anybody expect but that it saps their confidence to be playing in a side that is in a struggle to avoid defeat every week?

Spoony looked great when he broke into the team, and Galbraith looked great when he arrived. Now Spoony struggles and Galbraith struggles to get a game. Booth is starting to get the fans on his back. One or two other promising guys like Damon Gray disappeared altogether. Where are the players from the treble-winning under-19 side?

I think the biggest single problem we have is that we lack one or two players of real quality - guys who will stand out week after week even on a day when the team itself isn't doing well. For example Sauzee and Latapy. Guys to make the young players say to themselves "I'm playing alongside a real star..." We have had one or two people who might have filled that role - e.g. Benji, Zemamma, Deeks - and we've p1ssed them down the drain.

If you look at the number of journeymen who have transited ER in the past five years - come and gone without leaving a trace - it can't be far short of a hundred by now. Five years isn't such a long time. If over the same five years we had invested all the money we've wasted on forty or fifty of these pointless journeymen in recruiting and retaining just half a dozen really good players, I think we would be looking at a completely different Hibs today - in a good way.

[bawheid]

With the exception of O'Conner these are hardly household names in the upper reaches of the English leagues. They are all peripheral players.

My concern is that success tends to attract and youngsters who might otherwise come to us as supporters or possibly players may well go to the more successful team.

Thanks for the "son". That has made my day.

Yeah, was being an erse. Too early in the morning, sorry.

I don't think you can realistically expect Hibs to sign "household names in the upper reaches of the English leagues". Do you?

[Makaveli]

Nobody's expecting us to sign world class players, but when we're still signings guys most of us football fans haven't heard of something isn't right with the recruitment policy. As has been said, 10 good players to compliment our youngsters over the last 5 years would have stood us in far better stead than the dozens of journeymen who have (dis)graced the jersey recently.

Miller and Stokes were guys who had achieved well at our level and played at a higher one - those were good signings. How many of us really knew much about Thornhill? Palsson? Osbourne? OK so these guys were at decent clubs, but they obviously couldn't cut it... so why has CC assumed they'll be good enough for Hibs? O'Connor and Sproule didn't set the heather on fire down south but we know they can (or at least could) compete in the SPL - the others I'm not so sure about.

[Septimus]

Yeah, was being an erse. Too early in the morning, sorry.

I don't think you can realistically expect Hibs to sign "household names in the upper reaches of the English leagues". Do you?

No apology needed but thanks anyway.

Being realistic about who Hibs will sign is something we all have to live with but names who come and go without a ripple of improvement to the squad are nothing short of stupidity. I suppose you have to do a lot of digging before you find the nugget.

[Captain Trips]

Garry Oconner is a fair enough short term deal for a year in the sense of he maybe can still do it at higher level for more money, but some of these other guys we get on short term we should be able to sign them properly. I look at a loan or short deal to fill the odd gap or a player whom is way out our normal area of affordability and ability, some of the players we have had over last 2yrs on these deals should be grateful of getting a chance.

If we were not able to sign some of these players then it really is a sad state, if we didnt want to sign them and prefered changing key squad menbers every season that is as bad.

[Baker9]

Collectively the board has taken a big risk in backing Calderwood’s strategy. I am sure he has persuaded them to give him time to rebuild a young team capable of winning us the cup and perhaps even the league. Taking this level of risk means:

1. Potentially more gain than would have been achieved by just carrying on as before
2. The possibility of major setback

I suspect that the transformation and progress have taken longer than Calderwood and the Board estimated. The worst thing that could happen right now is for panic to set in at board or fan level. This is a potentially historic period for the club one way or another and well done for taking the risk.

[Andy74]

Collectively the board has taken a big risk in backing Calderwood’s strategy. I am sure he has persuaded them to give him time to rebuild a young team capable of winning us the cup and perhaps even the league. Taking this level of risk means:

1. Potentially more gain than would have been achieved by just carrying on as before
2. The possibility of major setback

I suspect that the transformation and progress have taken longer than Calderwood and the Board estimated. The worst thing that could happen right now is for panic to set in at board or fan level. This is a potentially historic period for the club one way or another and well done for taking the risk.

Not sure I get this.

We've done nothing different this year than any other, the manager has brought in players he thinks are better than the ones we had and we have a few of our own young players in and around the team.

Every year on paper we have signed guys who looked to have good pedigree or potential, only this lot haven't really done anyhting yet or showed any semblance of doing anything.

I'm a little puzzled at the suggestion we could be on the verge of something historic. CC must have done something to have so many people buying in to something but I don't get it and I generally go out my way to be positive and optimistic about the club and the players. To me he's just not signed all that successfully, certainly not the January arrivals, and has failed to manange either his players or previous players to any level of performance but he seems to have persuaded people he has done something different that will develop into something.

I hope I'm just missing something and suddenly it all takes shape.

[nortonhibby]

I seem to recall that Duffy, a well respected and cultured defender in his playing days, brought players in from the lower divisions in Scotland. Calderwood, an equally respected former player is grubbing about in the nether regions of the English leagues or the "unattached" columns for players to move us forward. If nothing else both these men should be able to identify a good defender.

The true salvation of Hibs lies in the bringing forward of products from our own youth system. Why, when promotion comes for these boys do they now not seem to be quite up to it? The money has been invested. East Mains should now be buzzing with potential stars who are being taught to play football in the true tradition of Hibernian FC.

We are in danger of being completely eclipsed by our neighbours.

steady on mate them at the PBS are a ticking time bomb tick tock, at least we are on solid financial street we have built the best stadium out with old firm and we have a 1st class training Acadamy.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

What was Tony Mowbray and Alex Mcleish's records??

[matty_f]

Not sure I get this.

We've done nothing different this year than any other, the manager has brought in players he thinks are better than the ones we had and we have a few of our own young players in and around the team.

Every year on paper we have signed guys who looked to have good pedigree or potential, only this lot haven't really done anyhting yet or showed any semblance of doing anything.

I'm a little puzzled at the suggestion we could be on the verge of something historic. CC must have done something to have so many people buying in to something but I don't get it and I generally go out my way to be positive and optimistic about the club and the players. To me he's just not signed all that successfully, certainly not the January arrivals, and has failed to manange either his players or previous players to any level of performance but he seems to have persuaded people he has done something different that will develop into something.

I hope I'm just missing something and suddenly it all takes shape.

I can see both sides of the coin here. On the face of it, Calderwood has so far been an utter failure. One highlight that I can think of in his time here, that being a 0-3 win at Ibrox.
However, there has been a feeling of a deep rooted issues since Mowbray left that successive managers have tried without success to resolve.

Is there a quick fix to it? We have already seen some changes in the background set up. Lindsay, Hyland, and Petrie all have different duties. There is an official link from youth team to first team in Alistair Stevenson. I think there will be other changes that we don't know about and probably won't ever know about.

There has also been an almost complete overhaul of the playing pool. How long does it take to get these players performing as a tight unit? O'Hanlon and Hanlon, presumably going to be our first choice centre-half pairing, had (IIRC) one game together prior to the derby. Towell was at the club days before going in.

The midfield still hasn't settled into a first pick. Palsson can now go into his natural position now that Towell has absolved him of his right back duties. Osbourne should be as fit as he needs to be, Scott is back in contention. These players haven't been available until very recently.

Then there's the strikers - only O'Connor has been available regularly this season. He needs to have a strike partner that he has an understanding with, that comes with games something he and Calderwood have been deprived of because of injury, but in theory the improvement will come. We've good players in forward positions. Sodje can score in the SPL - he showed that last season. Griffiths should get goals in the SPL, while what Agogo brings to the table remains to be seen.

If we were collectively looking to explain a lack of improvement to some extent with a view to giving Calderwood the benefit of the doubt, you could quite easily (IMHO) see why he has a case for getting more time.

If he is changing things culturally at the club, then he has to be given more than a few months in the job to do so. It's a massive job - it doesn't happen overnight and regardless of what happened with previous managers and the time they were given (or not), the Board have to learn from the fall-out of changing managers regularly and allow someone full scope to rebuild the club, because that is what is needed.

That does not absolve Calderwood of responsibility for results and performances now. There must be an expectation that these improve rapidly. Hibernian should not be a bottom 6 club. We should not be looking at Christmas time and thinking 'so long as we're clear from relegation trouble he's alright', we should be considering how likely we are to get top 6 at the split and from there how likely we are to push on for Europe.

It is a time where everyone connected with Hibs needs to stand together really, hold our collective nerve, and be prepared to put up with a bit of pish in order to come out the other side smiling.

[Sir David Gray]

What was Tony Mowbray and Alex Mcleish's records??

Tony Mowbray's overall record;

P-108
W-52
D-16
L-40

Win %-48%
Loss %-37%

Alex McLeish's overall record;

P-164
W-77
D-42
L-45

Win %-47%
Loss %-27%

Tony Mowbray's league record;

P-85
W-38
D-14
L-33

Win %-45%
Loss %-39%

Points per game-1.5

Alex McLeish's league record;

P-139
W-63
D-38
L-38

Win %-45%
Loss %-27%

Points per game-1.6

Obviously that includes a season in the first division. If you take McLeish's league record as Hibs manager in the top flight, it is as follows;

P-103
W-35
D-33
L-35

Win %-34%
Loss %-34%

Points per game-1.3