Has Petrie been very unlucky?

[Bob Box Fish]

From the Mowbray era when we were playing entertaining football, had approx 12k season tickets (including half), was difficult getting tickets for Cat A games etc etc has Petrie been unlucky or made the wrong decisions?

John Collins - won the cup, may have left due to lack of funding available, who knows? Poor signings made.

Mixu - seemed like the right candidate at the time. Made some good signings and a few bad ones like Zarabi.

John Hughes - again seemed like the right candidate at the time. Got fourth place but we were shocking post the Xmas period. A few good signings but a lot of rubbish too.

Colin Calderwood - Championship pedigree and a decent record as a number 2 and again sounded like a reasonable appointment at the time. Jury still out on the signings.

Manager wise, I don't think the appointments have been too bad based on their backgrounds.

Regarding signings, I think for the most part we seem to sign more players than anyone else outside the old firm and there has been numbers pinged around which would suggest in certain seasons we have spent the most outside the OF on transfers? Quality of the players signed have been variable for the best part.

Money was rightly put into the training complex but did we need the new stand- yes and no I guess. Potential greater revenue if you are winning - empty stadium if you are not.

Overall, I think to an extent Petrie has been a bit unlucky in how things have panned out since the Mowbray era, however, we have focussed on quantity vs. quality particularly during the JC era where he said several times his finances didn't stretch to the type of player he felt was required. We have clearly not fully utilised East Mains either as the last few seasons our players don't look anywhere near as fit vs. other clubs.

Thoughts?

[SneakersO'Toole]

I don't think he has been unlucky. He has made some good decisions but also some bad decisions. Unfortauntely it would seem that a culmination of bad decisions is catching up with him and the club as a whole. Unfortauntely, its us fans that are paying the price for it.

[RIP]

Only if you believe he's recruited bad managers. I don't buy it

I just don't think we want it badly enough - look at Sunday. Hearts have had some crap teams and change their managers more than us. They just have more fight, more spirit than we do. It's our culture that's mince - no our managers

[Arch Stanton]

He was unlucky with JC who, it transpired, was never a career manager.

At the time Mixu and JH seemed alright but I find it hard to fathom how they could have impressed at interview since I never heard either of them say anything intelligent about football (Mixu may have changed since but Yogi hasn't).

CC's straight talking no-nonsense approach is certainly a change and for once an appointment may turn out well for Rod.

While the squeelers may not be liking it one little bit, CC is getting on with what needs to be done to put the wrongs to right and all credit to him.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

He has been both lucky and unlucky and you really have to take the bad with the good. What I am finding difficult to take just now though is that the narrative that runs along the " will he stay or will he go" shambles with CC, has been him publicly living up to his man of steel image. No one is bigger than the club, and that includes him. If Calderwood can't turn it around, and I actually think that he can, and he gets shown the door, then the Chairman has to hand his tin in as well, because he has staked his reputation on him.

[mcfly]

From the Mowbray era when we were playing entertaining football, had approx 12k season tickets (including half), was difficult getting tickets for Cat A games etc etc has Petrie been unlucky or made the wrong decisions?

John Collins - won the cup, may have left due to lack of funding available, who knows? Poor signings made.

Mixu - seemed like the right candidate at the time. Made some good signings and a few bad ones like Zarabi.

John Hughes - again seemed like the right candidate at the time. Got fourth place but we were shocking post the Xmas period. A few good signings but a lot of rubbish too.

Colin Calderwood - Championship pedigree and a decent record as a number 2 and again sounded like a reasonable appointment at the time. Jury still out on the signings.

Manager wise, I don't think the appointments have been too bad based on their backgrounds.



Regarding signings, I think for the most part we seem to sign more players than anyone else outside the old firm and there has been numbers pinged around which would suggest in certain seasons we have spent the most outside the OF on transfers? Quality of the players signed have been variable for the best part.

Money was rightly put into the training complex but did we need the new stand- yes and no I guess. Potential greater revenue if you are winning - empty stadium if you are not.

Overall, I think to an extent Petrie has been a bit unlucky in how things have panned out since the Mowbray era, however, we have focussed on quantity vs. quality particularly during the JC era where he said several times his finances didn't stretch to the type of player he felt was required. We have clearly not fully utilised East Mains either as the last few seasons our players don't look anywhere near as fit vs. other clubs.

Thoughts?

Unlucky no - interfering yes

He should NEVER have met those players behind the managers back - it was nothing to do with him and he should have told the players as such.

This incident set hibs back years and was in my opinion the downfall of JC/Mixu & Yogi as it gave the players too much power.

RP did not respect the position of manager and lost JC who was trying to instill fitness and a more disciplined place to work.

Hibs are a on a major downward spiral - we have hardly won a game since Jan 2010 - we are an easy boring predictable team to beat and i really fear for us this season.

The fans in my view have been very very patient with the board and something has to give soon, they are all highly paid individuals, probably paid a lot more than the players, yet we have achieved 1 top 4 place in 6 years, we have the most embarrasing derby record and scottish cup record - the list goes on.

So has RP been unlucky - the answer is NO

[EasterRoad4Ever]

Petrie's strike rate for managers suggests the very opposite - he was LUCKY with the appointment of Mowbray. The only manager IMHO he has ever appointed that was actually any good and that he had some insight into was Alex McLeish. All the others, and the way he has dealt with them, have been shocking.

Now it appears that the team's win ratio over the last 18 months matches Petrie's own success rate in choosing managers. What a well balanced club:wink:

[connerg]

Unlucky no - interfering yes

He should NEVER have met those players behind the managers back - it was nothing to do with him and he should have told the players as such.

This incident set hibs back years and was in my opinion the downfall of JC/Mixu & Yogi as it gave the players too much power.

RP did not respect the position of manager and lost JC who was trying to instill fitness and a more disciplined place to work.

Hibs are a on a major downward spiral - we have hardly won a game since Jan 2010 - we are an easy boring predictable team to beat and i really fear for us this season.

The fans in my view have been very very patient with the board and something has to give soon, they are all highly paid individuals, probably paid a lot more than the players, yet we have achieved 1 top 4 place in 6 years, we have the most embarrasing derby record and scottish cup record - the list goes on.

So has RP been unlucky - the answer is NO :top marks

[SquashedFrogg]

Only if you believe he's recruited bad managers. I don't buy it

I just don't think we want it badly enough - look at Sunday. Hearts have had some crap teams and change their managers more than us. They just have more fight, more spirit than we do. It's our culture that's mince - no our managers

I think there maybe something in this. Also think that on Sunday they had a team on the pitch that have have been together for a couple of seasons (albeit a couple of newbies).

We played and looked like a brand new team.

Stability is the key here. IMO managers should get a guaranteed 3 years minimum (barring misconduct)

[SquashedFrogg]

Unlucky no - interfering yes

He should NEVER have met those players behind the managers back - it was nothing to do with him and he should have told the players as such.

This incident set hibs back years and was in my opinion the downfall of JC/Mixu & Yogi as it gave the players too much power.

RP did not respect the position of manager and lost JC who was trying to instill fitness and a more disciplined place to work.

Rubbish. Gave him total respect and got respect back. JC faced the consequences of inheriting a talented group of young players who were all ready to move on. Lack of guts from JC caused him to walk away.

Hibs are a on a major downward spiral - we have hardly won a game since Jan 2010 - we are an easy boring predictable team to beat and i really fear for us this season.

The fans in my view have been very very patient with the board and something has to give soon, they are all highly paid individuals, probably paid a lot more than the players, yet we have achieved 1 top 4 place in 6 years, we have the most embarrasing derby record and scottish cup record - the list goes on.

Again, where have you been man? No the case. And for the record we've not won the cup in over 100 years so please don't blame the current board for that.

So has RP been unlucky - the answer is NO

ggtth

[Elephant Stone]

It's easy to criticise now with the power of hindsight but at the time of the appointments of JC, Mixu and Hughes I think most fans seemed pretty content. What can we expect Petrie to predict that we can't? Calderwood was the only recent manager where there was a bit of fan apathy on appointment.

When he met the players to talk about Collins, what should he have done? The players were clearly unhappy about something and if he's the only person with the power to remove the manager then why shouldn't their concerns have been heard? Should he have just ignored them and let the fury in the dressing room build up?

[SquashedFrogg]

It's easy to criticise now with the power of hindsight but at the time of the appointments of JC, Mixu and Hughes I think most fans seemed pretty content. What can we expect Petrie to predict that we can't? Calderwood was the only recent manager where there was a bit of fan apathy on appointment.

When he met the players to talk about Collins, what should he have done? The players were clearly unhappy about something and if he's the only person with the power to remove the manager then why shouldn't their concerns have been heard? Should he have just ignored them and let the fury in the dressing room build up?

:top marks

[connerg]

It's easy to criticise now with the power of hindsight but at the time of the appointments of JC, Mixu and Hughes I think most fans seemed pretty content. What can we expect Petrie to predict that we can't? Calderwood was the only recent manager where there was a bit of fan apathy on appointment.

When he met the players to talk about Collins, what should he have done? The players were clearly unhappy about something and if he's the only person with the power to remove the manager then why shouldn't their concerns have been heard? Should he have just ignored them and let the fury in the dressing room build up?

And who led the player revolt and/or was the biggest instigator? And it wasn't KT!!!!

[EasterRoad4Ever]

Only if you believe he's recruited bad managers. I don't buy it

I just don't think we want it badly enough - look at Sunday. Hearts have had some crap teams and change their managers more than us. They just have more fight, more spirit than we do. It's our culture that's mince - no our managers

I think there maybe something in this. Also think that on Sunday they had a team on the pitch that have have been together for a couple of seasons (albeit a couple of newbies).

We played and looked like a brand new team.

Stability is the key here. IMO managers should get a guaranteed 3 years minimum (barring misconduct)

Unless someone offers them bag of sweeties, of course, then it's "i'm out a here" and to hell with the lot of you :wink:

One of Hibs problems is (and has been fro the last 40 years) is :

1. if the manager shows any signs of being any good at all, then Celtic or the Huns start sniffing around.
2. if they're useless, we're stuck with a useless manager, and end up divorced "by mutual consent".

Hibs lack ambition, balls and vision. The Board should try everything to convince Strachan to take the job. He has a huge amount of experience as a successful manager, would be able to attract quality signings, would raise the profile of our subservient club and give the fans HOPE for the future. He's also likely to hang around ar ER, as he's done almost everything else in football. It would be a great challenge for him.

Petrie might be shocked by this, but the MANAGER the most important person at a football club - not the Chairman, CEO or Board. For FAR too long, Petrie has had the highest profile at our club - which is just WRONG. We need a Manager who can challenge HIM, has some guts and vision.

[Saorsa]

It's easy to criticise now with the power of hindsight but at the time of the appointments of JC, Mixu and Hughes I think most fans seemed pretty content. What can we expect Petrie to predict that we can't? Calderwood was the only recent manager where there was a bit of fan apathy on appointment.

When he met the players to talk about Collins, what should he have done? The players were clearly unhappy about something and if he's the only person with the power to remove the manager then why shouldn't their concerns have been heard? Should he have just ignored them and let the fury in the dressing room build up?What He should have done was not tae have held the meeting at his house and he should not have held it behind the managers back while he was away. If there was tae be a meeting it should have been at the place of work and when the manager got back and with him present. By holding that meeting in the way he did he set a precedent and I dinnae think the problems arising from that have ever fully gone away.

I've always wondered what it was that their gripe with Collins was about, he probably asked the poor wee souls tae train for more than two hours a day.

[SquashedFrogg]

[QUOTE=SquashedFrogg;2903735]

Unless someone offers them bag of sweeties, of course, then it's "i'm out a here" and to hell with the lot of you :wink:

One of Hibs problems is (and has been fro the last 40 years) is :

1. if the manager shows any signs of being any good at all, then Celtic or the Huns start sniffing around.
2. if they're useless, we're stuck with a useless manager, and end up divorced "by mutual consent".

Hibs lack ambition, balls and vision. The Board should try everything to convince Strachan to take the job. He has a huge amount of experience as a successful manager, would be able to attract quality signings, would raise the profile of our subservient club and give the fans HOPE for the future. He's also likely to hang around ar ER, as he's done almost everything else in football. It would be a great challenge for him.

Petrie might be shocked by this, but the MANAGER the most important person at a football club - not the Chairman, CEO or Board. For FAR too long, Petrie has had the highest profile at our club - which is just WRONG. We need a Manager who can challenge HIM, has some guts and vision.

What would happen if Strachan was successful? Would he stay or move on?

Apart from a few spl titles and cups, how has he done almost everything else in football?

[SquashedFrogg]

[QUOTE=SquashedFrogg;2903735]

Unless someone offers them bag of sweeties, of course, then it's "i'm out a here" and to hell with the lot of you :wink:

One of Hibs problems is (and has been fro the last 40 years) is :

1. if the manager shows any signs of being any good at all, then Celtic or the Huns start sniffing around.
2. if they're useless, we're stuck with a useless manager, and end up divorced "by mutual consent".

Hibs lack ambition, balls and vision. The Board should try everything to convince Strachan to take the job. He has a huge amount of experience as a successful manager, would be able to attract quality signings, would raise the profile of our subservient club and give the fans HOPE for the future. He's also likely to hang around ar ER, as he's done almost everything else in football. It would be a great challenge for him.

Petrie might be shocked by this, but the MANAGER the most important person at a football club - not the Chairman, CEO or Board. For FAR too long, Petrie has had the highest profile at our club - which is just WRONG. We need a Manager who can challenge HIM, has some guts and vision.

What planet have you been on in the last 15 years?





Coventry City Games 215 won 70 Drew 56 lost 89 win % 32.56
Southampton Games 110 won 39 Drew 32 lost 39 win % 35.45
Celtic Games 182 won 122 Drew 28 lost 32 win % 67.03
Middlesbrough Games 46 won 13 Drew 13 lost 20 win % 28.26

[Septimus]

Only if you believe he's recruited bad managers. I don't buy it

I just don't think we want it badly enough - look at Sunday. Hearts have had some crap teams and change their managers more than us. They just have more fight, more spirit than we do. It's our culture that's mince - no our managers

I think there maybe something in this. Also think that on Sunday they had a team on the pitch that have have been together for a couple of seasons (albeit a couple of newbies).

We played and looked like a brand new team.

Stability is the key here. IMO managers should get a guaranteed 3 years minimum (barring misconduct)

But it has to work both ways. Managers have to guarantee us three years of their lives too. I was called daft because I think that CC should have been told that the job was available if he moved to Edinburgh. Apparently he has not which indicates, if nothing else, a lack of commitment to Hibs and leaves a convenient escape route open to him.

Of course we could end up with a total disaster for three years but would that not force the board or whoever appoints the manager to look before they leap.

Hearts are not inherently better than us. There has to be a reason for our dismal record against them and it has not got everything to do with money surely.

[Hibs On Tour]

What He should have done was not tae have held the meeting at his house and he should not have held it behind the managers back while he was away. If there was tae be a meeting it should have been at the place of work and when the manager got back and with him present. By holding that meeting in the way he did he set a precedent and I dinnae think the problems arising from that have ever fully gone away.

I've always wondered what it was that their gripe with Collins was about, he probably asked the poor wee souls tae train for more than two hours a day.

There's been a load y ****** thrown about over this...

Players thought that the type of training [not the amount] wasn't improving them as footballers. They raised it with JC while on the trip abroad - JC refused to discuss it and walked out of the room. Given that they'd already tried [and failed] to raise the issue through the proper channels with the manager, they were left with no option but to take it to his boss, which they did. When they did, what option did he have but to hear them out?

Source? Scott Brown

[Haymaker]

Players thought that the type of training [not the amount] wasn't improving them as footballers.

Yet we played some of the best football I can remember Hibs playing whilst also looking fit, strong and developing while JC was in charge... Weird. :confused:

[The Falcon]

Yet we played some of the best football I can remember Hibs playing whilst also looking fit, strong and developing while JC was in charge... Weird. :confused:


Towards the end we were not good. If you are looking to have a pop at Petrie you could say that he "undermined" the manager by meeting with disgruntled employees and their lengthy list. If you are looking to have a pop at Collins ( and Craig) you could say their signings were very poor and not doing well. If you were being cynical you could suggest that Collins knew he did not have the wherewithal to turn things round and jumped while his stock was still reasonably high following the cup win.

[The Falcon]

There's been a load y ****** thrown about over this...

Players thought that the type of training [not the amount] wasn't improving them as footballers. They raised it with JC while on the trip abroad - JC refused to discuss it and walked out of the room. Given that they'd already tried [and failed] to raise the issue through the proper channels with the manager, they were left with no option but to take it to his boss, which they did. When they did, what option did he have but to hear them out?

Source? Scott Brown


He is being much kinder towards Collins than some others were.

[Saorsa]

There's been a load y ****** thrown about over this...

Players thought that the type of training [not the amount] wasn't improving them as footballers. They raised it with JC while on the trip abroad - JC refused to discuss it and walked out of the room. Given that they'd already tried [and failed] to raise the issue through the proper channels with the manager, they were left with no option but to take it to his boss, which they did. When they did, what option did he have but to hear them out?

Source? Scott BrownI've already answered that, of course if there was a situation it had tae be resolved, it was done in the wrong way IMO. At his house was not the right way. Without Petrie informing Collins prior tae the meeting and doing it behind his back while he was away was not the right way. This sent out all the wrong signals IMO totally undermining the manager and the problem has never gone away.

And of course your source being a player his version is hardly likely tae paint a picture tae suit anything other than their version of what actually happened. Did he tell you what the wrong type of training was?

[Haymaker]

Towards the end we were not good. If you are looking to have a pop at Petrie you could say that he "undermined" the manager by meeting with disgruntled employees and their lengthy list. If you are looking to have a pop at Collins ( and Craig) you could say their signings were very poor and not doing well. If you were being cynical you could suggest that Collins knew he did not have the wherewithal to turn things round and jumped while his stock was still reasonably high following the cup win.

While we may have become a worse team towards the end, why was everyone on board at the beginning? Everyone seemed to want to play and work hard, we went ten games unbeaten (IIRC) at the start of the season? We destroyed a decent side in a cup final? Yes his signings were **** but I think there was something there.

[wee 162]

While we may have become a worse team towards the end, why was everyone on board at the beginning? Everyone seemed to want to play and work hard, we went ten games unbeaten (IIRC) at the start of the season? We destroyed a decent side in a cup final? Yes his signings were **** but I think there was something there.

8.5m taken in in transfers, £500k tops spent on bringing players in. And people expected us to be better?

Put it this way, under Collins we controlled loads of games, and produced many many more good moments in a little over a year (cup final, LC v the jambos, Kerr game at Tynecastle, 6-2 away to Motherwell, and controlling the game at Ibrox to the biggest extent I've ever seen) than we've had in total in the four years since. He should never have been allowed to leave and should have been backed to the maximum level humanly possible by the board. And he wasn't. Not even close to it. The meeting with the players was only one part of it. It was also financial. It was also in terms of ambition imo. Collins was the only one of our recent managers who ever expressed any idea that winning the league should be the aim of the club.

My suspicion is that Petrie felt that Collins wouldn't be a big loss due to the run of bad form before he left. Well the bad run he had has been more than beaten by every single one of his successors.

FWIW I would fully accept that Collins made mistakes. But that's what happens with a new manager. I also thought he didn't have the right coaching structure in place because the players had no one to greet to and get an arm round their shoulder under him. What I did think was that at least tactically he learned from his mistakes. Something our subsequent managers seem entirely incapable of doing.

[Bad Martini]

From the Mowbray era when we were playing entertaining football, had approx 12k season tickets (including half), was difficult getting tickets for Cat A games etc etc has Petrie been unlucky or made the wrong decisions?

John Collins - won the cup, may have left due to lack of funding available, who knows? Poor signings made.

Mixu - seemed like the right candidate at the time. Made some good signings and a few bad ones like Zarabi.

John Hughes - again seemed like the right candidate at the time. Got fourth place but we were shocking post the Xmas period. A few good signings but a lot of rubbish too.

Colin Calderwood - Championship pedigree and a decent record as a number 2 and again sounded like a reasonable appointment at the time. Jury still out on the signings.

Manager wise, I don't think the appointments have been too bad based on their backgrounds.

Regarding signings, I think for the most part we seem to sign more players than anyone else outside the old firm and there has been numbers pinged around which would suggest in certain seasons we have spent the most outside the OF on transfers? Quality of the players signed have been variable for the best part.

Money was rightly put into the training complex but did we need the new stand- yes and no I guess. Potential greater revenue if you are winning - empty stadium if you are not.

Overall, I think to an extent Petrie has been a bit unlucky in how things have panned out since the Mowbray era, however, we have focussed on quantity vs. quality particularly during the JC era where he said several times his finances didn't stretch to the type of player he felt was required. We have clearly not fully utilised East Mains either as the last few seasons our players don't look anywhere near as fit vs. other clubs.

Thoughts?

Once you're unlucky. Twice you're bordering on careless and thrice smacks of knowing piss all about the matter in hand.

I have no idea if Petrie knew that Mowbray would do well. Who knows, maybe he did.

Bottom line; it cannot ALWAYS be someone else's fault. The buck stops somewhere.

The only constant throughout the ****ty managerial appointments is Petrie. That says a lot to me...

[Sunny1875]

[QUOTE=EasterRoad4Ever;2903774]

What planet have you been on in the last 15 years?





Coventry City Games 215 won 70 Drew 56 lost 89 win % 32.56
Southampton Games 110 won 39 Drew 32 lost 39 win % 35.45
Celtic Games 182 won 122 Drew 28 lost 32 win % 67.03
Middlesbrough Games 46 won 13 Drew 13 lost 20 win % 28.26


Thinking it would not be too difficult for most managers in the SPL to win 67% of their games if they had Strachans Celtic's squad, resources and refereeing decisions. Just would not want to see that wee fud anywhere near Hibs.

[Hibs On Tour]

Yet we played some of the best football I can remember Hibs playing whilst also looking fit, strong and developing while JC was in charge... Weird. :confused:

Opinions eh? I personally thought we were gash under Collins and that we got out of jail in several games at the start of his last season undeservedly. Hey ho. :wink:

[Hibs On Tour]

I've already answered that, of course if there was a situation it had tae be resolved, it was done in the wrong way IMO. At his house was not the right way. Without Petrie informing Collins prior tae the meeting and doing it behind his back while he was away was not the right way. This sent out all the wrong signals IMO totally undermining the manager and the problem has never gone away.

And of course your source being a player his version is hardly likely tae paint a picture tae suit anything other than their version of what actually happened. Did he tell you what the wrong type of training was?

Well from that you could infer that whoever was the source could potentially have 'an angle' on it, no? FWIW he didn't have a bad word to say about Collins and this was just after he'd left.

I don't know if the meeting at Petries was arranged or if it was a case of them all just turning up. If they just turned up, realistically what else could he do? What caused the issue here is that Collins wouldn't even discuss the issue with the players himself, so IMHO them turning up at Petries was down to him. Surely him walking out of the meeting where the issues were raised the proper way to his face 'sent out all the wrong signals', no?

I'm not saying the players beef was right or wrong. What I am saying is that Collins can't complain about them going to see Petrie because that was IMO down to him in the first place! And - regardless of what else he might have got wrong before or since - I think its unfair to paint Petrie as undermining Collins because of it.

[Prawn Sandwich]

Opinions eh? I personally thought we were gash under Collins and that we got out of jail in several games at the start of his last season undeservedly. Hey ho. :wink:

I totally agree with that.

I think that Petrie gets too much stick. I would prefer to have a financially viable club than be at the behest of a Russian businessman of questionable wealth who could put the club into administration at the drop of a hat.

Petrie has to run a very tight ship because of the downward spiral of the income and therefore quality of Scottish football. He can see over the hill what we as fans can't. For instance there is no guarantee of TV revenue and the season ticket sales have reduced to about 7,000. This makes it very difficult to loosen the purse strings.

I can't remember a Manager to have an opportunity like Calderwood to clear out just about the whole playing staff and build his own squad. i can't remember so many new faces being brought in to the club in such a short time. Calderwood is the person to blame for the recent results.

[ancient hibee]

It was Mowbray who was lucky-

1.there was no money

2.he had to throw in the youngsters

3.they just so happened to be the best for years.