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Dashing Bob S
29-08-2011, 08:32 AM
"...in the long term there won't be."

Well, fair play, he got that one right. I think we're now all pretty much convinced that he's clueless, his team are spineless and going nowhere except the first division.

A poor-looking Hearts side followed in Kilmarnock and St.Mirren's footsteps and won pretty much as they pleased. It's difficult to see where our next point, let alone victory in the League is coming from.

Sauzee was given no time at all to turn Hibs round, yet the board seems to regard CC as being above trivial concerns like results and performances by the board. I'm all for people being given time, but they have to show us something along the way, some kind of encouraging signs that things will come together in the future. I've just not seen that from our manager.

His record is now inferior to Jim Duffy's, who was sacked after having roughly the same number of games in charge.

Mikey
29-08-2011, 08:39 AM
It's a long way back, that's for sure.

Prawn Sandwich
29-08-2011, 08:41 AM
I'm in no doubt....... Colin Calderwood should not be Hibs Manager.

Expecting Rain
29-08-2011, 08:50 AM
"...in the long term there won't be."

Well, fair play, he got that one right. I think we're now all pretty much convinced that he's clueless, his team are spineless and going nowhere except the first division.

A poor-looking Hearts side followed in Kilmarnock and St.Mirren's footsteps and won pretty much as they pleased. It's difficult to see where our next point, let alone victory in the League is coming from.

Sauzee was given no time at all to turn Hibs round, yet the board seems to regard CC as being above trivial concerns like results and performances by the board. I'm all for people being given time, but they have to show us something along the way, some kind of encouraging signs that things will come together in the future. I've just not seen that from our manager.

His record is now inferior to Jim Duffy's, who was sacked after having roughly the same number of games in charge.

Calderwood has achieved the impossible, he`s manged to take us backwards since his opening defeat against Aberdeen as a manger, the arguments amongst some of the fans are now who has been worse than who, some of the fans before this game were suggesting that we were missing Sodje,O`Hanlon and Towell that is how desperate it has become, the harsh reality is that we have to start again.

smurf
29-08-2011, 09:14 AM
All so depressing. I like many others don't want him to go because I desparately want us to stop this managerial merry go round. Believing that only some stability will get us where we should and ought to be...

However, aside from that I see nothing whatsoever that suggests he should be retained.

And not only him the rest of them that are with him in the bizzare coaching structure....

Questions also have to be asked of our board. For too long too many have absolved them from any direct responsibility from what actually happens on the park.

I'm completely scunnered with our club at the moment. We were woeful yesterday. Only one move of any note in 90 minutes as far as I'm concerned. It's the same week in and week out with pathetic performances and consistent defeats and has now been like this for YEARS.

It's not a nice thing sometimes to face the truth. However, our reluctance to accept that our disaster of a manager wanted out in the summer was really something else.

The manager is the most important person at the club. Regardless to how we feel let's not forget in Scottish terms not many jobs are bigger than being manager of our club.

Our board with CC have yet again sold us short.

pacorosssco
29-08-2011, 09:23 AM
"...in the long term there won't be."

Well, fair play, he got that one right. I think we're now all pretty much convinced that he's clueless, his team are spineless and going nowhere except the first division.

A poor-looking Hearts side followed in Kilmarnock and St.Mirren's footsteps and won pretty much as they pleased. It's difficult to see where our next point, let alone victory in the League is coming from.

Sauzee was given no time at all to turn Hibs round, yet the board seems to regard CC as being above trivial concerns like results and performances by the board. I'm all for people being given time, but they have to show us something along the way, some kind of encouraging signs that things will come together in the future. I've just not seen that from our manager.

His record is now inferior to Jim Duffy's, who was sacked after having roughly the same number of games in charge.

agree and petrie out too.

ps can you add first division here we come at the end to title or whatever petrie called it last time. our great adventure or whatever

under cc hibs have never looked a good side in any game

KWJ
29-08-2011, 09:44 AM
I still want him to stay and think that he will turn it around. I was at the game yesterday and it was an all together disturbing occasion from what was going on on the pitch, jambos singing that they were paedos and scarves being thrown on the pitch. It's August, let's wait until October at the earliest and that may be when I return to this board. I think we have a better side than we did this time last year and I still believe it'll come good.

Pedantic_Hibee
29-08-2011, 09:49 AM
I've yet to see progress on the pitch (which is the most important and best barometer of progress).

But if I were to glean a positive to run alongside his mission statement, our squad and strength in depth is remarkably better than what it was when he took over. I don't even think we were outfought yesterday, we just had no gameplan or tactic I feel.

So, in terms of where I think we are in my opinion, he's built the squad now, he has two weeks to get them fit, to get the combinations right, to drill it into them what he expects and then he simply HAS to hit the ground running in our next game onwards.

To get to the rainbow, you have to put up with the rain. Well, we've been drenched by Tropical Storm Lolderwood, now is the time to push through it and come out fighting.

SneakersO'Toole
29-08-2011, 10:33 AM
All so depressing. I like many others don't want him to go because I desparately want us to stop this managerial merry go round. Believing that only some stability will get us where we should and ought to be...

However, aside from that I see nothing whatsoever that suggests he should be retained.

And not only him the rest of them that are with him in the bizzare coaching structure....

Questions also have to be asked of our board. For too long too many have absolved them from any direct responsibility from what actually happens on the park.

I'm completely scunnered with our club at the moment. We were woeful yesterday. Only one move of any note in 90 minutes as far as I'm concerned. It's the same week in and week out with pathetic performances and consistent defeats and has now been like this for YEARS.

It's not a nice thing sometimes to face the truth. However, our reluctance to accept that our disaster of a manager wanted out in the summer was really something else.

The manager is the most important person at the club. Regardless to how we feel let's not forget in Scottish terms not many jobs are bigger than being manager of our club.

Our board with CC have yet again sold us short.

Completely agree Smurf. Especially the bit about the board.

CC has the month of September to change things. If we don't pick up a MINIMUM of 8 points he should get the bullet. I too don't want another merry go round but where do you draw the line? We have been absolutely atrocious so far this season.

Arch Stanton
29-08-2011, 11:01 AM
I would say that we are still in the short term and the doubters will have nothing much to carp on about in a few weeks.

Mind you, I can well understand peoples frustration with CC - I am as impatient as the rest - but he is obviously one of those careful methodical people who just won't be rushed. I have worked with such people in the past and they annoy the heck out of me since I could work so much quicker - however, at the end of the day they sometimes (if rarely, :greengrin ) produce better work.

It took him a good while chopping and changing to figure out who to move on (a somewhat painful to watch process) but when he made his decisions they were the right ones.

Hearts did most of their transfer business in the first few weeks of the transfer window while CC has done his in the last few weeks (and again, a painful to watch process).

That said, people seem to be flinging any kind of rubbish criticism they can think of to throw at him.

If he sticks with a winning team he is wrong to do so and if he changes a winning team he is also wrong.

If he plays a 4-5-1 then he should have played a 4-4-2 and if he plays a 4-4-2 he should have played a 4-5-1.

And I really am beat as to where in left field the notion that Booth shouldn't be playing at LB has suddenly appeared from. OK, so he has been given a bit of a lesson in a couple of games by some pacey and tricky wing-play, but so what? The best LB's in the world can be turned over by a good winger without it qualifying them for the scrapheap.

If it was me I would have played Palsson and Scott instead of Thornhill and Murray, but who is to say my selection would have done any better - every time we lose against Hearts people come up with team selections that would have 'won'.

In a sense this is fair enough for a chat forum but to then take it the extra mile and use that opinion as a damning indictment of the manager is really a bit much.

Brizo
29-08-2011, 11:23 AM
CC exits the managerial revolving door and another manager comes in ..... how long will they last ?

For many years ive faithfully obeyed the unofficial 11th commandment "thou shalt not criticise STF , he saved us". But its time the owner and Board were looked at critically in respect of that managerial revolving door. Managers are a convenient sacrificial lamb for Petrie who in turn attracts the flak that at other clubs might be directed at the owner.

Im not defending CC ... I just think that our high managerial turnover indicates that the problem goes beyond the man in the managers chair.

EuanH78
29-08-2011, 12:08 PM
CC exits the managerial revolving door and another manager comes in ..... how long will they last ?

For many years ive faithfully obeyed the unofficial 11th commandment "thou shalt not criticise STF , he saved us". But its time the owner and Board were looked at critically in respect of that managerial revolving door. Managers are a convenient sacrificial lamb for Petrie who in turn attracts the flak that at other clubs might be directed at the owner.

Im not defending CC ... I just think that our high managerial turnover indicates that the problem goes beyond the man in the managers chair.

Err... does this mean that Calderwood should go or not? and if so, is it still Petrie's fault that there is such a high turnover of managers?

Most people on here wanted Mixu and Yogi to go, even more want to see the back of Calderwood. I fail to see how the board and Petrie (in particular) can come in for criticism for letting go managers that aren't winning football games.

Ok, maybe we should hire better managers in the first place but then again, hindsight is always 20/20 and personally thought (at the time) each of our managerial appointments was a 'fair shout'.

EasterRoad4Ever
29-08-2011, 02:39 PM
Does anyone really have any faith that the Board will be able to do any better picking the NEXT manager, even if CC got the bullet ? IMHO the Board now realise that they are basically crap at recruiting managers, and just avoiding the problem by hanging onto one of the worst managers I can remember in all my years of following Hibs.

I didn't think I'd ever see a manager at ER again as bad as Duffy. Clueless Colin is as bad, and in time will prove himself to be even worse :grr:

Bostonhibby
29-08-2011, 02:42 PM
"...in the long term there won't be."

Well, fair play, he got that one right. I think we're now all pretty much convinced that he's clueless, his team are spineless and going nowhere except the first division.

A poor-looking Hearts side followed in Kilmarnock and St.Mirren's footsteps and won pretty much as they pleased. It's difficult to see where our next point, let alone victory in the League is coming from.

Sauzee was given no time at all to turn Hibs round, yet the board seems to regard CC as being above trivial concerns like results and performances by the board. I'm all for people being given time, but they have to show us something along the way, some kind of encouraging signs that things will come together in the future. I've just not seen that from our manager.

His record is now inferior to Jim Duffy's, who was sacked after having roughly the same number of games in charge.

Any idea how long the short term runs for as I am ****ing sick of this?.

Dashing Bob S
29-08-2011, 08:39 PM
Any idea how long the short term runs for as I am ****ing sick of this?.

When you look at the time our previous managers from McLeish onwards have been given, I'd say we are no longer in the short term.

nortonhibby
29-08-2011, 08:51 PM
I still want him to stay and think that he will turn it around. I was at the game yesterday and it was an all together disturbing occasion from what was going on on the pitch, jambos singing that they were paedos and scarves being thrown on the pitch. It's August, let's wait until October at the earliest and that may be when I return to this board. I think we have a better side than we did this time last year and I still believe it'll come good.

We must have patience i agree but for how long i see no improvement in 10 months in fact i think this team is worse than what Yogi put together:confused:

nortonhibby
29-08-2011, 08:56 PM
Does anyone really have any faith that the Board will be able to do any better picking the NEXT manager, even if CC got the bullet ? IMHO the Board now realise that they are basically crap at recruiting managers, and just avoiding the problem by hanging onto one of the worst managers I can remember in all my years of following Hibs.

I didn't think I'd ever see a manager at ER again as bad as Duffy. Clueless Colin is as bad, and in time will prove himself to be even worse :grr:

we must calm down what you say is not possible there has to be something that the board and RP 120K Per year know that we do not in CC They totally trust, RP Had the chance to get rid and make a tidy profit:confused:

Bostonhibby
29-08-2011, 09:02 PM
When you look at the time our previous managers from McLeish onwards have been given, I'd say we are no longer in the short term.

Ach, I will give it a bit longer then, but I am starting to doubt myself.....................

MWHIBBIES
29-08-2011, 09:05 PM
Hard to disagree with the OP TBH.

HFC 0-7
29-08-2011, 09:07 PM
I still want him to stay and think that he will turn it around. I was at the game yesterday and it was an all together disturbing occasion from what was going on on the pitch, jambos singing that they were paedos and scarves being thrown on the pitch. It's August, let's wait until October at the earliest and that may be when I return to this board. I think we have a better side than we did this time last year and I still believe it'll come good.

Thats probably the most worrying thing, we have better players and yet we are playing worse! That has to tell you something about the managers tactics are working, how to motivate a team and how training is.

nortonhibby
29-08-2011, 09:11 PM
Thats probably the most worrying thing, we have better players and yet we are playing worse! That has to tell you something about the managers tactics are working, how to motivate a team and how training is.

Rangers 0 Hibernian 3 Explain i am convinced RP Has an Ace up his sleeve

FRes Hibbie
29-08-2011, 09:15 PM
No, he shouldn't be sacked, it's too early in the season after backing him in the summer. Also, we're going to get much better very soon.

hibby67
30-08-2011, 12:25 AM
No, he shouldn't be sacked, it's too early in the season after backing him in the summer. Also, we're going to get much better very soon.


:aok:

sevenil
30-08-2011, 01:34 AM
Maybe we should just accept the fact that CC seemed like a reasonable appointment (at the time) - he wasn't my choice, but there were plenty on here saying that he ticked all the boxes - experience down south, not part of the Largs mafia etc etc. Maybe he talks a good game at job interviews, but as is plain now, the reality is somewhat different.
However...to say that this means that the Board must also go is way over the top. They select the apparent best candidate (from the small pool who'd be interested), but there is no crystal ball. You can take all the precautions you like, but there is no guarantee that a winner can be identified from an interview.

Bite the bullet and start the process all over again, before the season is much older.

Calvin
30-08-2011, 01:38 AM
Maybe he talks a good game at job interviews, but as is plain now, the reality is somewhat different.
However...to say that this means that the Board must also go is way over the top. They select the apparent best candidate (from the small pool who'd be interested), but there is no crystal ball. You can take all the precautions you like, but there is no guarantee that a winner can be identified from an interview.

I think we appreciate this, but Calderwood is not an isolated incident. Collins was unfortunate, Mixu was careless, Yogi was a big mistake and Calderwood is simply dire - our fourth poor appointment in a row! Given Mowbray was a success, a 20% ratio of good appointments when you are in charge of HR is a shocking stat. If they talk a good interview, it's the board's job to see that they're being BS'ed.

Nando™
30-08-2011, 02:50 AM
Maybe we should just accept the fact that CC seemed like a reasonable appointment (at the time) - he wasn't my choice, but there were plenty on here saying that he ticked all the boxes - experience down south, not part of the Largs mafia etc etc. Maybe he talks a good game at job interviews, but as is plain now, the reality is somewhat different.
However...to say that this means that the Board must also go is way over the top. They select the apparent best candidate (from the small pool who'd be interested), but there is no crystal ball. You can take all the precautions you like, but there is no guarantee that a winner can be identified from an interview.

Bite the bullet and start the process all over again, before the season is much older.
Small pool :hilarious

Sometimes it's easy to say who's good and who's pish, but human nature dictates that you will recognise the bad times more than the good times. Believe me, I regocnise our current situation, Calderwood can hide behind his short-term, long-term pish, but I'm no having it. He is not the man for the job, we need a change, he has been given as long as any manager needs.

"We're done." Aye? Those signings are our pre-season dealings? You're having a laugh man....

EasterRoad4Ever
30-08-2011, 05:40 AM
I think we appreciate this, but Calderwood is not an isolated incident. Collins was unfortunate, Mixu was careless, Yogi was a big mistake and Calderwood is simply dire - our fourth poor appointment in a row! Given Mowbray was a success, a 20% ratio of good appointments when you are in charge of HR is a shocking stat. If they talk a good interview, it's the board's job to see that they're being BS'ed.

IMHO Petrie's criteria for choosing a Hibs manager:

1. has low financial demands
2. is a nice chap that Petrie can get along with
3. may be a good manager

in that order.

Hibbyradge
30-08-2011, 05:52 AM
1. has low financial demands


You did say that it's your opinion, but what's it based on?

Do you really believe that a man who was 2nd in charge at an EPL club has low financial demands?

Or that the players Calderwood has signed fall into that category?

I don't and I don't think the board can be criticised for not backing this manager financially.

RIP
30-08-2011, 06:09 AM
The Hibs I saw on Sunday had the same old failings


Outworked by Hearts
Outrun by Hearts
Outfought
Heids went down after first goal
Fans who went quiet after a first goal
Discipline went awry and our 'seasoned pros' put on a disgraceful show of petty fouls instead of trying to fight back with better football


Thos are not Calderwood's faults. These are the systemic problems we have had at Easter Road for years. The culture of underachievement has always been there and no manager (Not even Mowbray) has really been able to turn it around. Collins, Mixu, Yogi and Colin are not poor managers. Our club makes them look poor.

Our supporters continue to call for a new manager and whole new squad every year. I'm more concerned that we are ending up as the joke club of Scottish Football. Oh and Petrie is all but retired so changing the Chairman might please some on here but will achieve the square root of fluck all

Beefster
30-08-2011, 06:26 AM
The Hibs I saw on Sunday had the same old failings


Outworked by Hearts
Outrun by Hearts
Outfought
Heids went down after first goal
Fans who went quiet after a first goal
Discipline went awry and our 'seasoned pros' put on a disgraceful show of petty fouls instead of trying to fight back with better football


Thos are not Calderwood's faults. These are the systemic problems we have had at Easter Road for years. The culture of underachievement has always been there and no manager (Not even Mowbray) has really been able to turn it around. Collins, Mixu, Yogi and Colin are not poor managers. Our club makes them look poor.

Our supporters continue to call for a new manager and whole new squad every year. I'm more concerned that we are ending up as the joke club of Scottish Football. Oh and Petrie is all but retired so changing the Chairman might please some on here but will achieve the square root of fluck all

I'm sure his salary has been amended to reflect that....

7Hero
30-08-2011, 06:34 AM
Owner needs changed but will never happen , only then will the ethos of the club change.



Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk

HFC 0-7
30-08-2011, 07:26 AM
Rangers 0 Hibernian 3 Explain i am convinced RP Has an Ace up his sleeve

Are you having a laugh? My point was that the worrying aspect is that we do have good players but we are actually playing worse than when calderwood first came in. The 3 - 0 was with someone elses squad!

ahibby
30-08-2011, 07:40 AM
maybe the stats are worse than Duffy's but Duffy only got the sack towards the end of a season not at the start. We still have a few games to see how things pan out. It's a decent squad of players, yes we could have done with a couple of defenders IMO, but we are not too bad off now. I am not confident that it can be turned around from what I have seen but you never know. Let's see what the next few matches bring.

HFC 0-7
30-08-2011, 07:58 AM
maybe the stats are worse than Duffy's but Duffy only got the sack towards the end of a season not at the start. We still have a few games to see how things pan out. It's a decent squad of players, yes we could have done with a couple of defenders IMO, but we are not too bad off now. I am not confident that it can be turned around from what I have seen but you never know. Let's see what the next few matches bring.

Perfect example of leaving a bad manager in too long! We got relegated! IIRC Duffy was sacked and we still had a full round of fixtures left, McLeish couldnt turn it around in 12 games.

hibbiedon
30-08-2011, 08:02 AM
I suppose I should appologise for my opinion but I am a Hibs fan and want Calderwood to succeed
Everyone is throwing statistics about to suit their own agenda, Answer this How many games has he played with the players he has signed
Once they have played 3 to 4 games together then I will pass judgement, football is like any other workplace people need a few weeks to settle in, so maybe we should increase our efforts to support Hibs and help them settle in and at least make them feel as if they have come to a good club
:flag::cgwa

Speedway
30-08-2011, 08:18 AM
All so depressing. I like many others don't want him to go because I desparately want us to stop this managerial merry go round. Believing that only some stability will get us where we should and ought to be...

However, aside from that I see nothing whatsoever that suggests he should be retained.

And not only him the rest of them that are with him in the bizzare coaching structure....

Questions also have to be asked of our board. For too long too many have absolved them from any direct responsibility from what actually happens on the park.

I'm completely scunnered with our club at the moment. We were woeful yesterday. Only one move of any note in 90 minutes as far as I'm concerned. It's the same week in and week out with pathetic performances and consistent defeats and has now been like this for YEARS.It's not a nice thing sometimes to face the truth. However, our reluctance to accept that our disaster of a manager wanted out in the summer was really something else.

The manager is the most important person at the club. Regardless to how we feel let's not forget in Scottish terms not many jobs are bigger than being manager of our club.

Our board with CC have yet again sold us short.

'Fraid not Smurfy.

If it's been years then it's been a rookie manager who played at a higher level, ex-club fave who learned his trade in the lower leagues and took an underdog team to Europe, experienced SPL manager capable of getting to a cup final, experienced manager in England with no ties and track record of getting promotions as well as getting hired by big clubs (also a 48% win record) Whom the club paid £200,000 in order to acquire.

But let's not deal in facts.

So....questions:

1. When was the last Hibs team to fight, show desire, be of the requisite quality with the requisite manager? (don't you dare say it was Mowbray's cup bottlers)

2. When was the last time a fan requested managerial appointment worked out?

3. When was the last time Hibs brought in a manager of the calibre and track record of Calderwood?

4. Who has got the balls to ask the searching questions at the AGM and know their subject well enough to not be shouted down by the first pre-prepared answer that the board give?

5. Why don't hibbies at least think through their tirades to see if they stand up to the merest scrutiny?

Phil D. Rolls
30-08-2011, 08:29 AM
agree and petrie out too.

ps can you add first division here we come at the end to title or whatever petrie called it last time. our great adventure or whatever

under cc hibs have never looked a good side in any game

I'm all for justified pops at the board, and they have run out of excuses, but if you don't even know that it wasn't Petrie that was in charge the last time, maybe you want to pay a bit more attention to your team yourself. Not remembering that it was Tom O'Malley who said it suggests that you too are not perfect.

GodisaHibee
30-08-2011, 03:26 PM
"...in the long term there won't be."

Well, fair play, he got that one right. I think we're now all pretty much convinced that he's clueless, his team are spineless and going nowhere except the first division.

A poor-looking Hearts side followed in Kilmarnock and St.Mirren's footsteps and won pretty much as they pleased. It's difficult to see where our next point, let alone victory in the League is coming from.

Sauzee was given no time at all to turn Hibs round, yet the board seems to regard CC as being above trivial concerns like results and performances by the board. I'm all for people being given time, but they have to show us something along the way, some kind of encouraging signs that things will come together in the future. I've just not seen that from our manager.

His record is now inferior to Jim Duffy's, who was sacked after having roughly the same number of games in charge.

One of the few on here that see and speak sense. Thanks Bob S

One Day Soon
30-08-2011, 04:20 PM
Perhaps he meant to say " In The Short Term We Accept That There Will Be Debtors"? Certainly more in keeping with the Board's philosophy.

down-the-slope
30-08-2011, 04:49 PM
I would say that we are still in the short term and the doubters will have nothing much to carp on about in a few weeks.

Mind you, I can well understand peoples frustration with CC - I am as impatient as the rest - but he is obviously one of those careful methodical people who just won't be rushed. I have worked with such people in the past and they annoy the heck out of me since I could work so much quicker - however, at the end of the day they sometimes (if rarely, :greengrin ) produce better work.

It took him a good while chopping and changing to figure out who to move on (a somewhat painful to watch process) but when he made his decisions they were the right ones.

Hearts did most of their transfer business in the first few weeks of the transfer window while CC has done his in the last few weeks (and again, a painful to watch process).

That said, people seem to be flinging any kind of rubbish criticism they can think of to throw at him.

If he sticks with a winning team he is wrong to do so and if he changes a winning team he is also wrong.

If he plays a 4-5-1 then he should have played a 4-4-2 and if he plays a 4-4-2 he should have played a 4-5-1.

And I really am beat as to where in left field the notion that Booth shouldn't be playing at LB has suddenly appeared from. OK, so he has been given a bit of a lesson in a couple of games by some pacey and tricky wing-play, but so what? The best LB's in the world can be turned over by a good winger without it qualifying them for the scrapheap.

If it was me I would have played Palsson and Scott instead of Thornhill and Murray, but who is to say my selection would have done any better - every time we lose against Hearts people come up with team selections that would have 'won'.

In a sense this is fair enough for a chat forum but to then take it the extra mile and use that opinion as a damning indictment of the manager is really a bit much.

Seconded....:greengrin

Cropley10
30-08-2011, 05:04 PM
1. When was the last Hibs team to fight, show desire, be of the requisite quality with the requisite manager? (don't you dare say it was Mowbray's cup bottlers) - a rhetorical question and something the Club (Board, Management and Staff) should have addressed time and time again.

2. When was the last time a fan requested managerial appointment worked out? I'd be horrified if fans requested managerial appointments - if that's the case why bother with a Board, just get ST holders to vote.

3. When was the last time Hibs brought in a manager of the calibre and track record of Calderwood? You can use those statistics any way you want he was not an unqualified success anywhere.

4. Who has got the balls to ask the searching questions at the AGM and know their subject well enough to not be shouted down by the first pre-prepared answer that the board give? - Who knows. But the Board better be ready for less and less people bothering to get along to Easter Road if we carry on playing the **** we have watching. And I used to think Mixu and Yogi played dire football!



My answers above

sahib
30-08-2011, 07:14 PM
Mind you, I can well understand peoples frustration with CC - I am as impatient as the rest - but he is obviously one of those careful methodical people who just won't be rushed. I have worked with such people in the past and they annoy the heck out of me since I could work so much quicker - however, at the end of the day they sometimes (if rarely, ) produce better work


I hate to say it, but he could just have been floundering around in a clueless manner.

Spike Mandela
30-08-2011, 08:04 PM
The policy of sticking by a manager and giving him time to build a team is a valid one as long as there is gradual signs of progress.

Unfortunately Hibs board appear to be applying this to the wrong man. Mixu deserved this support maybe even Yogi but if any of them should have been sacked it would have to be CC who just appears to be a loser and has turned us in to a team going nowhere.

FRes Hibbie
30-08-2011, 08:21 PM
The policy of sticking by a manager and giving him time to build a team is a valid one as long as there is gradual signs of progress.

Unfortunately Hibs board appear to be applying this to the wrong man. Mixu deserved this support maybe even Yogi but if any of them should have been sacked it would have to be CC who just appears to be a loser and has turned us in to a team going nowhere.

There ARE signs of progress: his signings! We were terrible last season because he was managing someone else's team and many of the players knew they had no future at the club. So far this season we've been disappointing but it's only been towards the end of the window that we actually did most of our business. We've done the hard bit; we've sat and waited while Calderwood got rid of Yogi's team and put together his own. Now let's see what he can do with it. What's the point in sacking him now after letting him put all his own foundations in place?!

mim
30-08-2011, 09:11 PM
I would say that we are still in the short term and the doubters will have nothing much to carp on about in a few weeks.

Mind you, I can well understand peoples frustration with CC - I am as impatient as the rest - but he is obviously one of those careful methodical people who just won't be rushed. I have worked with such people in the past and they annoy the heck out of me since I could work so much quicker - however, at the end of the day they sometimes (if rarely, :greengrin ) produce better work.

It took him a good while chopping and changing to figure out who to move on (a somewhat painful to watch process) but when he made his decisions they were the right ones.

Hearts did most of their transfer business in the first few weeks of the transfer window while CC has done his in the last few weeks (and again, a painful to watch process).

That said, people seem to be flinging any kind of rubbish criticism they can think of to throw at him.

If he sticks with a winning team he is wrong to do so and if he changes a winning team he is also wrong.

If he plays a 4-5-1 then he should have played a 4-4-2 and if he plays a 4-4-2 he should have played a 4-5-1.

And I really am beat as to where in left field the notion that Booth shouldn't be playing at LB has suddenly appeared from. OK, so he has been given a bit of a lesson in a couple of games by some pacey and tricky wing-play, but so what? The best LB's in the world can be turned over by a good winger without it qualifying them for the scrapheap.

If it was me I would have played Palsson and Scott instead of Thornhill and Murray, but who is to say my selection would have done any better - every time we lose against Hearts people come up with team selections that would have 'won'.

In a sense this is fair enough for a chat forum but to then take it the extra mile and use that opinion as a damning indictment of the manager is really a bit much.


I suppose I should appologise for my opinion but I am a Hibs fan and want Calderwood to succeed
Everyone is throwing statistics about to suit their own agenda, Answer this How many games has he played with the players he has signed
Once they have played 3 to 4 games together then I will pass judgement, football is like any other workplace people need a few weeks to settle in, so maybe we should increase our efforts to support Hibs and help them settle in and at least make them feel as if they have come to a good club
:flag::cgwa


There ARE signs of progress: his signings! We were terrible last season because he was managing someone else's team and many of the players knew they had no future at the club. So far this season we've been disappointing but it's only been towards the end of the window that we actually did most of our business. We've done the hard bit; we've sat and waited while Calderwood got rid of Yogi's team and put together his own. Now let's see what he can do with it. What's the point in sacking him now after letting him put all his own foundations in place?!

I'm with you guys.
The problem is that, if we are wrong, we will probably be relegated.
Of course, we might be relegated if we sack the manager, too.

The Green Goblin
30-08-2011, 09:22 PM
I think we appreciate this, but Calderwood is not an isolated incident. Collins was unfortunate, Mixu was careless, Yogi was a big mistake and Calderwood is simply dire - our fourth poor appointment in a row! Given Mowbray was a success, a 20% ratio of good appointments when you are in charge of HR is a shocking stat. If they talk a good interview, it's the board's job to see that they're being BS'ed.


The bit in bold is debatable. Things certainly felt better and you could be reasonably optimistic of going to ER and actually enjoying the experience. But the stats aren't great, and as I recall, our away record in his last season was nothing short of criminal.

Mowbray as Manager: Played 108 Won 52 Drawn 16 Lost 40


You said "Collins was unfortunate" but he won a cup. Who was the more successful manager?

GG

Sir David Gray
30-08-2011, 09:47 PM
The bit in bold is debatable. Things certainly felt better and you could be reasonably optimistic of going to ER and actually enjoying the experience. But the stats aren't great, and as I recall, our away record in his last season was nothing short of criminal.

Mowbray as Manager: Played 108 Won 52 Drawn 16 Lost 40


You said "Collins was unfortunate" but he won a cup. Who was the more successful manager?

GG

So we won almost every second game that we played during Mowbray's time in charge?

We can only dream of having a record like that just now.

God Petrie
30-08-2011, 09:48 PM
The bit in bold is debatable. Things certainly felt better and you could be reasonably optimistic of going to ER and actually enjoying the experience. But the stats aren't great, and as I recall, our away record in his last season was nothing short of criminal.

Mowbray as Manager: Played 108 Won 52 Drawn 16 Lost 40


You said "Collins was unfortunate" but he won a cup. Who was the more successful manager?

GG

Mowbray wasn't a success? He got us into Europe playing the best football I have seen in my time supporting the club (25 years). Hibs finished in the top four in the SPL in his only two full seasons in charge (the first time since Turnbull).

To put him in the same bracket as JC is insulting - JC managed to fall out with the players after winning a cup, threw away a great chance of winning the SC by failing to score against Dunfermline after 180 minutes of football, asked the board to sign almost every single hot prospect in scottish football then resigned the day after East Mains was opened because amazingly, we didn't have the £10m we'd need to sign the players he wanted.

The only relevant stat regarding Collins tenure is the fact he had ONE perfectly timed game where he managed to motivate the players. Let's not forget we scraped through against St Johnstone in the cup due to a free-kick from a Mowbray signing.

Apparantly, Mowbray was only successful because he had a good crop of youngsters, but he made the most of the situation he found himself in and managed the team, the fans, the media and the board in an intelligent and dignified manner. No other manager in the last 10 years has even had the ability to realise that is what is required and execute it remotely well.

IberianHibernian
30-08-2011, 10:14 PM
I would say that we are still in the short term and the doubters will have nothing much to carp on about in a few weeks.

Mind you, I can well understand peoples frustration with CC - I am as impatient as the rest - but he is obviously one of those careful methodical people who just won't be rushed. I have worked with such people in the past and they annoy the heck out of me since I could work so much quicker - however, at the end of the day they sometimes (if rarely, :greengrin ) produce better work.

It took him a good while chopping and changing to figure out who to move on (a somewhat painful to watch process) but when he made his decisions they were the right ones.

Hearts did most of their transfer business in the first few weeks of the transfer window while CC has done his in the last few weeks (and again, a painful to watch process).

That said, people seem to be flinging any kind of rubbish criticism they can think of to throw at him.

If he sticks with a winning team he is wrong to do so and if he changes a winning team he is also wrong.

If he plays a 4-5-1 then he should have played a 4-4-2 and if he plays a 4-4-2 he should have played a 4-5-1.

And I really am beat as to where in left field the notion that Booth shouldn't be playing at LB has suddenly appeared from. OK, so he has been given a bit of a lesson in a couple of games by some pacey and tricky wing-play, but so what? The best LB's in the world can be turned over by a good winger without it qualifying them for the scrapheap.

If it was me I would have played Palsson and Scott instead of Thornhill and Murray, but who is to say my selection would have done any better - every time we lose against Hearts people come up with team selections that would have 'won'.

In a sense this is fair enough for a chat forum but to then take it the extra mile and use that opinion as a damning indictment of the manager is really a bit much.Some good points but what will you consider satisfactory / progress / success if we carry on with same management team this season ? Top 6 with entertaining performances ? Top 6 even if with poor play ? ( something I suspect will happen leading to poor season ticket sales in 2012-13 ) . Not sure about how you see CC`s decisions to get rid of players - to me it seemed to be that CC ( or someone else ) took quick / easy decision to get rid of certain players ( Rankin , Miller for example ) knowing it would please some fans whether replacements would be better or not - given general lack of quality before and now it`s been case of change for the sake of change from what I`ve seen .

jacomo
30-08-2011, 11:03 PM
The policy of sticking by a manager and giving him time to build a team is a valid one as long as there is gradual signs of progress.

Unfortunately Hibs board appear to be applying this to the wrong man. Mixu deserved this support maybe even Yogi but if any of them should have been sacked it would have to be CC who just appears to be a loser and has turned us in to a team going nowhere.

I have a horrible feeling that Mixu might have turned out great. Seeing him do so well with Killie was bittersweet, to say the least.

This is partly CC's problem, of course (though he's got plenty of his own making too) - so many of us have seen fondly remembered players make a mess of the job that this dour man with no connection to us or Edinburgh is hardly going to set us alight.

He can't even feign affection for Hibs, FFS.

smurf
30-08-2011, 11:40 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Mixu might have turned out great. Seeing him do so well with Killie was bittersweet, to say the least.

This is partly CC's problem, of course (though he's got plenty of his own making too) - so many of us have seen fondly remembered players make a mess of the job that this dour man with no connection to us or Edinburgh is hardly going to set us alight.

He can't even feign affection for Hibs, FFS.

Mixu had offered Ross Chisolm a new contract. That's the direction we were going with Mixu...

sleeping giant
31-08-2011, 01:29 AM
I fully bought into the Calderwwod era. Much more than in believed in JC,Mixu or Yogi. I'm normally the happiest clappiest chilled Hibs fan but if i'm being honest , he has until the first round of fixtures to show signs of improvement.
I'm not asking for much. Just a small sign that we are getting there please:flag:

The Green Goblin
31-08-2011, 01:40 AM
So we won almost every second game that we played during Mowbray's time in charge?

We can only dream of having a record like that just now.


You didn't answer my question though, did you? :wink:

GG

HFC 0-7
31-08-2011, 08:08 AM
The bit in bold is debatable. Things certainly felt better and you could be reasonably optimistic of going to ER and actually enjoying the experience. But the stats aren't great, and as I recall, our away record in his last season was nothing short of criminal.

Mowbray as Manager: Played 108 Won 52 Drawn 16 Lost 40


You said "Collins was unfortunate" but he won a cup. Who was the more successful manager?

GG

How is Mowbray being a successful manager at Hibs debatable? 48% win rate? Only Bob shankley, Jock Stein, Eddie Turnbull, Hugh Shaw, Willie McFarlane and Willie McCartney out of 33 managers have better Win Rates. So Mowbray has had the highest win rate in 31 years! Whats debatable about that? Pretty sure the board would class a manager as being able to get bums on seats as a success and the style that mowbray played certainly did that.

The_Todd
31-08-2011, 12:28 PM
JC wasn't perfect by any means but I don't understand the desire to bring him down. As manager he won one of only two major trophies we've ever won in my lifetimes, and to me football is about trophies.

JimBHibees
31-08-2011, 12:40 PM
I fully bought into the Calderwwod era. Much more than in believed in JC,Mixu or Yogi. I'm normally the happiest clappiest chilled Hibs fan but if i'm being honest , he has until the first round of fixtures to show signs of improvement.
I'm not asking for much. Just a small sign that we are getting there please:flag:

Agree he needs to hit the ground running after the international break. As you say signs of improvement, keeping the ball, dominating other teams expecially at home and playing with a bit of get up and go. The second half of the last 2 league games have been torture with little or no sign of anything remotely good enough.

As for looking back I dont think any of the last 3 managers can have much complaint IMO.

Dashing Bob S
31-08-2011, 12:40 PM
Are you having a laugh? My point was that the worrying aspect is that we do have good players but we are actually playing worse than when calderwood first came in. The 3 - 0 was with someone elses squad!

These were the bad old days before we had a perfect squad.

smurf
31-08-2011, 01:13 PM
'Fraid not Smurfy.

If it's been years then it's been a rookie manager who played at a higher level, ex-club fave who learned his trade in the lower leagues and took an underdog team to Europe, experienced SPL manager capable of getting to a cup final, experienced manager in England with no ties and track record of getting promotions as well as getting hired by big clubs (also a 48% win record) Whom the club paid £200,000 in order to acquire.

But let's not deal in facts.

So....questions:

1. When was the last Hibs team to fight, show desire, be of the requisite quality with the requisite manager? (don't you dare say it was Mowbray's cup bottlers)

2. When was the last time a fan requested managerial appointment worked out?

3. When was the last time Hibs brought in a manager of the calibre and track record of Calderwood?

4. Who has got the balls to ask the searching questions at the AGM and know their subject well enough to not be shouted down by the first pre-prepared answer that the board give?

5. Why don't hibbies at least think through their tirades to see if they stand up to the merest scrutiny?

I said it was "YEARS" because pretty much since our cup win at Hampden it has been a downward spiral.

Answers;

1, John Collins in the CIS Cup. If not then for me the last would be GJP. The team had a mental toughness. Can't think of one derby under him for example where the Yams battered us in anyway...

2, Fans should have no say on managerial appointments. It shouldn't be an emotional appointment unless he's the absolute obvious appointment.

3, Calibre and track record of CC? Have you ever spoken to a Nottingham Forest fan? Out of interest when he was actually successful did any other club who he was up against have a smaller budget than his? (tough question but hey you started asking...:wink:)

4, Is it like PMQ'S where you get to ask 6 questions? Without follow up questions it's a complete waste of time. AGM? Where's the guy who actually owns the club? To answer your question though i've no idea...

5, The 'scrutiny' is our results. As it is in any other business. In this respect the club have been failing for years (10th in the SPL last season. Put out of the Scottish Cup to Ayr Utd unable to score a goal in 180 mins... Sorry is this a "Tirade.."?) and now sits as the window closes BOTTOM of this quality packed SPL.:rolleyes:

You know what? I actually feel for Rod Petrie. I'm pretty damned sure he wants us to be a successful football club. I'm pretty damned sure he works and gives it 110% for that to happen. I also feel pretty damned sure that EVERY available penny is made available to the manager. Sometimes in life it just doesn't add up. Sometimes for some it just doesn't happen.

That's life. That's the same in any commercial business in the world.

I was once a sales director. I had a budget to recruit and train sales professionals. They then all had objectives i had agreed with the company owner. If the sales guys failed then i failed. End. Of.

Fair? These guys all had good CV's. Surely not my fault?

No my secret was to identify any duds ASAP and get them out and make damn sure i got the replacement right.

The same in 99% of the real world.

Of course as we know football just isn't in the real world.

Joe Baker II
31-08-2011, 01:22 PM
Mowbray wasn't a success? He got us into Europe playing the best football I have seen in my time supporting the club (25 years). Hibs finished in the top four in the SPL in his only two full seasons in charge (the first time since Turnbull).

To put him in the same bracket as JC is insulting - JC managed to fall out with the players after winning a cup, threw away a great chance of winning the SC by failing to score against Dunfermline after 180 minutes of football, asked the board to sign almost every single hot prospect in scottish football then resigned the day after East Mains was opened because amazingly, we didn't have the £10m we'd need to sign the players he wanted.

The only relevant stat regarding Collins tenure is the fact he had ONE perfectly timed game where he managed to motivate the players. Let's not forget we scraped through against St Johnstone in the cup due to a free-kick from a Mowbray signing.

Apparantly, Mowbray was only successful because he had a good crop of youngsters, but he made the most of the situation he found himself in and managed the team, the fans, the media and the board in an intelligent and dignified manner. No other manager in the last 10 years has even had the ability to realise that is what is required and execute it remotely well.

Totally agree with you but would only add that you also have to look at the crowds with Mowbray (which are a more important indicator than results) to realise how good he was for Hibs. And fact there were discussions on message boards and with the club about how to allocate away ticket allocations during his spell another good indicator

Speedway
31-08-2011, 01:24 PM
From November 2010 in various publications:


Former manager John Hughes is urging Hibernian to give his successor, Colin Calderwood, more time than he had.

“The club needs stability and continuity,” said Hughes, who left Easter Road after 17 months in charge.

“You have to give Colin three years. He has to bring one or two of his own players in. Shuffle his pack a bit and he has to be backed to the hilt.

“My frustration is good, bad or indifferent, no matter how it goes, I thought we did a right good job.”

Former Falkirk boss Hughes stepped down in early October, with Hibs having picked up five points from their opening seven matches in the Scottish Premier League.

Since then, Hibs have slipped a place in the league to 11th, picking up just three more points.

And those came in a home win against Kilmarnock, overseen by coaches Gareth Evans and Alistair Stevenson.

Calderwood has a record of three straight defeats since arriving in Edinburgh from his coaching post at Newcastle, including a sorry 2-0 reverse in Sunday’s Edinburgh derby.

Hughes insists that he is not bitter about the way he left the club. However, he was disappointed to lose his job so early in the season and remains proud of his achievements at the club he represented as a player from 1996 to 2000.

“We got them fourth place in the league and qualified for Europe in our first year in charge,” he told BBC Scotland.

“If I asked people at the club, what do you want from me? I possibly surpassed their expectations and we did all this despite after just one week into the job losing our two best players in Rob Jones and Steven Fletcher.

“I made mistakes and I have no problem in owning up to that. Probably losing in the Scottish Cup to Ross County was the turning point. But look what happens in the game. They go to Hampden and beat Celtic in the semi-final. That’s football.

“My plans were there. I was looking to change the whole culture at the club. Starting at 9.00am and still being there at 4.00pm in the afternoon. During that time the players would be in the gym, doing strength and conditioning then going out onto the training pitch.

“The culture at Easter Road has to change but you need time to change it.”

Hughes pointed out that it was his influence that persuaded Anthony Stokes to join Hibs in the summer of 2009 and the striker repaid him with 22 goals.

However, the player was sold to Celtic at the end of the August transfer window and has already hit eight goals for his new employers.

“If I knew four games after we let him go to Celtic that I’d be out of a job, I’d have fought harder to keep him,” admitted Hughes, who expressed his desire to return to management.

“But I thought the club would understand that we were losing 22 goals and we would need to batten down the hatches.”

Aberdeen manager Mark McGhee is currently feeling the heat after a run of poor results and Hughes has sympathy for his former opponent.

Hughes was in the stand at Celtic Park watching the Dons lose 9-0 and said he understands the pain McGhee is going through.

“I watched the interview with Mark and I could see that he still wants to get up in the morning and take on the challenge and turn that around and that was exactly the same at Hibs.

“All he needs is a board to back him. I took a Falkirk team to Parkhead for a CIS Cup tie and got turned over 8-0. I was under the bed!

“But I still knew where I was going and the board backed me knowing it was work in progress. Two years later we went back and beat Celtic on penalties. That’s because I was given the opportunity and the chance by the club.”

HFC 0-7
31-08-2011, 01:27 PM
From November 2010 in various publications:


Former manager John Hughes is urging Hibernian to give his successor, Colin Calderwood, more time than he had.

“The club needs stability and continuity,” said Hughes, who left Easter Road after 17 months in charge.

“You have to give Colin three years. He has to bring one or two of his own players in. Shuffle his pack a bit and he has to be backed to the hilt.

“My frustration is good, bad or indifferent, no matter how it goes, I thought we did a right good job.”

Former Falkirk boss Hughes stepped down in early October, with Hibs having picked up five points from their opening seven matches in the Scottish Premier League.

Since then, Hibs have slipped a place in the league to 11th, picking up just three more points.

And those came in a home win against Kilmarnock, overseen by coaches Gareth Evans and Alistair Stevenson.

Calderwood has a record of three straight defeats since arriving in Edinburgh from his coaching post at Newcastle, including a sorry 2-0 reverse in Sunday’s Edinburgh derby.

Hughes insists that he is not bitter about the way he left the club. However, he was disappointed to lose his job so early in the season and remains proud of his achievements at the club he represented as a player from 1996 to 2000.

“We got them fourth place in the league and qualified for Europe in our first year in charge,” he told BBC Scotland.

“If I asked people at the club, what do you want from me? I possibly surpassed their expectations and we did all this despite after just one week into the job losing our two best players in Rob Jones and Steven Fletcher.

“I made mistakes and I have no problem in owning up to that. Probably losing in the Scottish Cup to Ross County was the turning point. But look what happens in the game. They go to Hampden and beat Celtic in the semi-final. That’s football.

“My plans were there. I was looking to change the whole culture at the club. Starting at 9.00am and still being there at 4.00pm in the afternoon. During that time the players would be in the gym, doing strength and conditioning then going out onto the training pitch.

“The culture at Easter Road has to change but you need time to change it.”

Hughes pointed out that it was his influence that persuaded Anthony Stokes to join Hibs in the summer of 2009 and the striker repaid him with 22 goals.

However, the player was sold to Celtic at the end of the August transfer window and has already hit eight goals for his new employers.

“If I knew four games after we let him go to Celtic that I’d be out of a job, I’d have fought harder to keep him,” admitted Hughes, who expressed his desire to return to management.

“But I thought the club would understand that we were losing 22 goals and we would need to batten down the hatches.”

Aberdeen manager Mark McGhee is currently feeling the heat after a run of poor results and Hughes has sympathy for his former opponent.

Hughes was in the stand at Celtic Park watching the Dons lose 9-0 and said he understands the pain McGhee is going through.

“I watched the interview with Mark and I could see that he still wants to get up in the morning and take on the challenge and turn that around and that was exactly the same at Hibs.

“All he needs is a board to back him. I took a Falkirk team to Parkhead for a CIS Cup tie and got turned over 8-0. I was under the bed!

“But I still knew where I was going and the board backed me knowing it was work in progress. Two years later we went back and beat Celtic on penalties. That’s because I was given the opportunity and the chance by the club.”

Whats your point?

Speedway
31-08-2011, 01:28 PM
Whats your point?

That another manager thinks Calderwood needs three years to get Hibs right.

Stevie Reid
31-08-2011, 01:40 PM
From November 2010 in various publications:


Former manager John Hughes is urging Hibernian to give his successor, Colin Calderwood, more time than he had.

“The club needs stability and continuity,” said Hughes, who left Easter Road after 17 months in charge.

“You have to give Colin three years. He has to bring one or two of his own players in. Shuffle his pack a bit and he has to be backed to the hilt.

“My frustration is good, bad or indifferent, no matter how it goes, I thought we did a right good job.”

Former Falkirk boss Hughes stepped down in early October, with Hibs having picked up five points from their opening seven matches in the Scottish Premier League.

Since then, Hibs have slipped a place in the league to 11th, picking up just three more points.

And those came in a home win against Kilmarnock, overseen by coaches Gareth Evans and Alistair Stevenson.

Calderwood has a record of three straight defeats since arriving in Edinburgh from his coaching post at Newcastle, including a sorry 2-0 reverse in Sunday’s Edinburgh derby.

Hughes insists that he is not bitter about the way he left the club. However, he was disappointed to lose his job so early in the season and remains proud of his achievements at the club he represented as a player from 1996 to 2000.

“We got them fourth place in the league and qualified for Europe in our first year in charge,” he told BBC Scotland.

“If I asked people at the club, what do you want from me? I possibly surpassed their expectations and we did all this despite after just one week into the job losing our two best players in Rob Jones and Steven Fletcher.

“I made mistakes and I have no problem in owning up to that. Probably losing in the Scottish Cup to Ross County was the turning point. But look what happens in the game. They go to Hampden and beat Celtic in the semi-final. That’s football.

“My plans were there. I was looking to change the whole culture at the club. Starting at 9.00am and still being there at 4.00pm in the afternoon. During that time the players would be in the gym, doing strength and conditioning then going out onto the training pitch.

“The culture at Easter Road has to change but you need time to change it.”

Hughes pointed out that it was his influence that persuaded Anthony Stokes to join Hibs in the summer of 2009 and the striker repaid him with 22 goals.

However, the player was sold to Celtic at the end of the August transfer window and has already hit eight goals for his new employers.

“If I knew four games after we let him go to Celtic that I’d be out of a job, I’d have fought harder to keep him,” admitted Hughes, who expressed his desire to return to management.

“But I thought the club would understand that we were losing 22 goals and we would need to batten down the hatches.”

Aberdeen manager Mark McGhee is currently feeling the heat after a run of poor results and Hughes has sympathy for his former opponent.

Hughes was in the stand at Celtic Park watching the Dons lose 9-0 and said he understands the pain McGhee is going through.

“I watched the interview with Mark and I could see that he still wants to get up in the morning and take on the challenge and turn that around and that was exactly the same at Hibs.

“All he needs is a board to back him. I took a Falkirk team to Parkhead for a CIS Cup tie and got turned over 8-0. I was under the bed!

“But I still knew where I was going and the board backed me knowing it was work in progress. Two years later we went back and beat Celtic on penalties. That’s because I was given the opportunity and the chance by the club.”


That another manager thinks Calderwood needs three years to get Hibs right.

You have made your thoughts on Yogi as a manager perfectly clear - so why do you now believe that he knows what is best for Hibs? (or indeed, DID know immediately after he was sacked, which is when this article is from)

HFC 0-7
31-08-2011, 01:47 PM
That another manager thinks Calderwood needs three years to get Hibs right.

OK, so a manager needs 3 years in a job to possibly become good? Firstly this is coming from a manager that got fired, so coming out with this and saying he needed more time is a bit predictable.

Now the most important point. Will the fans wait for that long with long periods where it looks like no progress is being made? No! Rightly or wrongly, fans wont wait long periods of time, throwing money at a club that isnt good to watch, especially in this day and age. That would mean season after season where we are waiting for a manager to turn it around the clubs budget gets smaller and smaller. Fans nearly almost always demand instant success, they will settle for a period of time where results and performances are bad as long as there are signs of improvement, but the vast majority of them will not settle for what has been happening under Calderwood.

The club needs to look at whats required to get results right on the pitch but at the same time keeping the fans on board and putting money into the club. Whether you agree with these fans that want relatively instant success and that are un willing to give a manager 3 seasons to turn the club into a decent force in the SPL, you have to realise that a large majority feel this way and therefore the club has to work with it. We all know how hard it is to get hibbys back buying ST's etc, so the more fans driven away because of the bad product the harder it is to get them back.

It may have taken hughes 3 seasons it may take calderwood 3 seasons, but there are managers that can get a team playing well quicker. Stuart McCall seems to be doing better with Motherwell after being in his post less time that Calderwood. I am not saying McCall should be the hibs manager I am just pointing out that managers can get results quickly.

hibs0666
31-08-2011, 02:30 PM
It may have taken hughes 3 seasons it may take calderwood 3 seasons, but there are managers that can get a team playing well quicker. Stuart McCall seems to be doing better with Motherwell after being in his post less time that Calderwood. I am not saying McCall should be the hibs manager I am just pointing out that managers can get results quickly.

Surely the speed at which things can be turned around depends on how bad things were when the new guy comes in?

Calderwood inherited a total shambles, McCall didn't. Simples.

Speedway
31-08-2011, 03:20 PM
OK, so a manager needs 3 years in a job to possibly become good? Firstly this is coming from a manager that got fired, so coming out with this and saying he needed more time is a bit predictable.

Now the most important point. Will the fans wait for that long with long periods where it looks like no progress is being made? No! Rightly or wrongly, fans wont wait long periods of time, throwing money at a club that isnt good to watch, especially in this day and age. That would mean season after season where we are waiting for a manager to turn it around the clubs budget gets smaller and smaller. Fans nearly almost always demand instant success, they will settle for a period of time where results and performances are bad as long as there are signs of improvement, but the vast majority of them will not settle for what has been happening under Calderwood.

The club needs to look at whats required to get results right on the pitch but at the same time keeping the fans on board and putting money into the club. Whether you agree with these fans that want relatively instant success and that are un willing to give a manager 3 seasons to turn the club into a decent force in the SPL, you have to realise that a large majority feel this way and therefore the club has to work with it. We all know how hard it is to get hibbys back buying ST's etc, so the more fans driven away because of the bad product the harder it is to get them back.

It may have taken hughes 3 seasons it may take calderwood 3 seasons, but there are managers that can get a team playing well quicker. Stuart McCall seems to be doing better with Motherwell after being in his post less time that Calderwood. I am not saying McCall should be the hibs manager I am just pointing out that managers can get results quickly.

Can McCall sustain results? He hasn't previously.

So, if the fans aren't willing to give a manager the time then we just keep sacking them and never get the results because the required time for change is never given. Bit stupid, no?

HFC 0-7
31-08-2011, 05:50 PM
Can McCall sustain results? He hasn't previously.

So, if the fans aren't willing to give a manager the time then we just keep sacking them and never get the results because the required time for change is never given. Bit stupid, no?

Some fans are yes, some fans wouldnt give much time at all, I would say that the time Calderwood has had, added to the problems in close season with Birmingham and Forest, is reasonable to start questioning his abilities and to start asking Progress to be shown now and not waiting any longer. The sad facts are that a club like Hibs cannot wait to long when it comes to managers. If we are flirting with relegation come the end of the year then we may not be able to trade our way out of it with player purchases if thats whats required. I am not saying McCall can sustain results I am just saying that there are managers that can get results with limited resources and in short periods of time. You only need to look at some scotland manager recently where they hardly have the team to train with, the squad changes frequently and we still managed results against France and turned in excellent performances against the likes of italy.

I am all for giving managers time if signs of progress are made. I certainly wouldnt be using some of the excuses people have been on here like waiting to 'gel' etc, as its the basics we seem to lack at the minute. Also why i wouldnt give too much more time to CC is because he, as far as I have heard, still wants away. I certainly wouldnt be backing a manager who may need 3 seasons to turn it around when they look likely to shoot off down south when they can.

I respect your views Speedway, I just think you are missing the factors the club have to consider. If the fans are unconvinced and unwilling to spend money backing a manager through a lot of bad performances where no progress looks to be made, they have to react. Rightly or wrongly its the way football clubs are at the minute. When I look at renewing my ST I have to look at how much it will cost, couple that with the fact I wont be able to go to all games, I have to fit any games I can go to around family commitments etc. If the product on the park is rank and doesnt look to be getting any better the pro's for getting a ST gets smaller and smaller.

Arch Stanton
31-08-2011, 06:34 PM
..................

When I look at renewing my ST I have to look at how much it will cost, couple that with the fact I wont be able to go to all games, I have to fit any games I can go to around family commitments etc. If the product on the park is rank and doesnt look to be getting any better the pro's for getting a ST gets smaller and smaller.

I wonder if STs are the most important income stream for Hibs these days - now that you can pay by monthly installments and get free cup top-up I mean.

matty_f
31-08-2011, 06:52 PM
From November 2010 in various publications:


Former manager John Hughes is urging Hibernian to give his successor, Colin Calderwood, more time than he had.

“The club needs stability and continuity,” said Hughes, who left Easter Road after 17 months in charge.

“You have to give Colin three years. He has to bring one or two of his own players in. Shuffle his pack a bit and he has to be backed to the hilt.

“My frustration is good, bad or indifferent, no matter how it goes, I thought we did a right good job.”

Former Falkirk boss Hughes stepped down in early October, with Hibs having picked up five points from their opening seven matches in the Scottish Premier League.

Since then, Hibs have slipped a place in the league to 11th, picking up just three more points.

And those came in a home win against Kilmarnock, overseen by coaches Gareth Evans and Alistair Stevenson.

Calderwood has a record of three straight defeats since arriving in Edinburgh from his coaching post at Newcastle, including a sorry 2-0 reverse in Sunday’s Edinburgh derby.

Hughes insists that he is not bitter about the way he left the club. However, he was disappointed to lose his job so early in the season and remains proud of his achievements at the club he represented as a player from 1996 to 2000.

“We got them fourth place in the league and qualified for Europe in our first year in charge,” he told BBC Scotland.

“If I asked people at the club, what do you want from me? I possibly surpassed their expectations and we did all this despite after just one week into the job losing our two best players in Rob Jones and Steven Fletcher.

“I made mistakes and I have no problem in owning up to that. Probably losing in the Scottish Cup to Ross County was the turning point. But look what happens in the game. They go to Hampden and beat Celtic in the semi-final. That’s football.

“My plans were there. I was looking to change the whole culture at the club. Starting at 9.00am and still being there at 4.00pm in the afternoon. During that time the players would be in the gym, doing strength and conditioning then going out onto the training pitch.

“The culture at Easter Road has to change but you need time to change it.”

Hughes pointed out that it was his influence that persuaded Anthony Stokes to join Hibs in the summer of 2009 and the striker repaid him with 22 goals.

However, the player was sold to Celtic at the end of the August transfer window and has already hit eight goals for his new employers.

“If I knew four games after we let him go to Celtic that I’d be out of a job, I’d have fought harder to keep him,” admitted Hughes, who expressed his desire to return to management.

“But I thought the club would understand that we were losing 22 goals and we would need to batten down the hatches.”

Aberdeen manager Mark McGhee is currently feeling the heat after a run of poor results and Hughes has sympathy for his former opponent.

Hughes was in the stand at Celtic Park watching the Dons lose 9-0 and said he understands the pain McGhee is going through.

“I watched the interview with Mark and I could see that he still wants to get up in the morning and take on the challenge and turn that around and that was exactly the same at Hibs.

“All he needs is a board to back him. I took a Falkirk team to Parkhead for a CIS Cup tie and got turned over 8-0. I was under the bed!

“But I still knew where I was going and the board backed me knowing it was work in progress. Two years later we went back and beat Celtic on penalties. That’s because I was given the opportunity and the chance by the club.”

I know this is deviating from the point a bit, but how long was Yogi Hibs manager and how long does it take to get players to work longer days?

Surely when the manager comes in, if he wants that to happen it happens? There is (or at least used to be) an employment law specialist at Hibs, surely they'd be sensible enough to have contracts flexible enough to give scope for a manager to make changes like that?

pacorosssco
31-08-2011, 06:57 PM
That another manager thinks Calderwood needs three years to get Hibs right.

clubs like hibs dont have three years because if the manager then has a good season and a half he leaves so its three bad season for one and a bit good. doenst work. if squads are overhauled three transfer windows is enough. it needs to be what done on training pitch / formations/ tactics etc that improve and it hasnt under cc

HFC 0-7
31-08-2011, 07:20 PM
I wonder if STs are the most important income stream for Hibs these days - now that you can pay by monthly installments and get free cup top-up I mean.

Fans are the most important income stream because the TV deals arent worth a lot of money. Hibs will be struggling this season and I would imagine the financials are looking pretty grim come year end. I think hibs rely on ST's,they need to know how much money they will be getting in.