Scottish football is finished

[Hibbyradge]

The most depressing aspect about today's game wasn't the scoreline.

It was the fact that the standard of football was utterly miserable.

They changed the TV channel at half time and I saw more skill in one minute that was on show for the entire 90 at Tynecastle.

Hearts were woeful. They were just less woeful than Hibs.

£29 to watch that utter dross? Best joke of the festival.

[fatbloke]

The most depressing aspect about today's game wasn't the scoreline.

It was the fact that the standard of football was utterly miserable.

They changed the TV channel at half time and I saw more skill in one minute that was on show for the entire 90 at Tynecastle.

Hearts were woeful. They were just less woeful than Hibs.

£29 to watch that utter dross? Best joke of the festival.

Playing about on the web I found out I can get an ST for the Stadium of Light for £410 (£415 for ER). Can SPL explain this to me.

Where is value for money in SPL prices. Just curious.

[Speedway]

The most depressing aspect about today's game wasn't the scoreline.

It was the fact that the standard of football was utterly miserable.

They changed the TV channel at half time and I saw more skill in one minute that was on show for the entire 90 at Tynecastle.

Hearts were woeful. They were just less woeful than Hibs.

£29 to watch that utter dross? Best joke of the festival.

Been like this for years though.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I would simply like us to be "less woeful" than Hearts.

Isn't the case though, sadly.

[James70]

We were well beaten by a poor Hearts team who in turn were thrashed by a good Spurs team who in turn were thrashed by a very good Manchester City side who will still not be good enough to take the Premier League title from their neighbours! :greengrin

[fatbloke]

I would simply like us to be "less woeful" than Hearts.

Isn't the case though, sadly.

:agree:

[Saorsa]

I would simply like us to be "less woeful" than Hearts.

Isn't the case though, sadly.less woeful the St. Mirren or Kille would be a start.

[Hibbyradge]

Been like this for years though.

I don't think it's been as bad as this though.

Scottish football has had some fantastic players.

Laudrup, Gasgoine, Larsson, Hately, Butcher, Dalglish, Sauzee, etc etc.

Ask yourself this question, who is the best player in the SPL now?

Mind boggling.

[Coco Bryce]

I am finished with Scottish Football, dont even watch highlights of any SPL either for that matter.

Today's game for example a big derby game with virtually no atmosphere whatsover! :rolleyes:

[Speedway]

I don't think it's been as bad as this though.

Scottish football has had some fantastic players.

Laudrup, Gasgoine, Larsson, Hately, Butcher, Dalglish, Sauzee, etc etc.

Ask yourself this question, who is the best player in the SPL now?

Mind boggling.

De Graaf.

[BSEJVT]

Agree with the Op and have thought so for a few years.

Its not just the fact that folk are turning their backs on their own teams that should be worrying those that run Scottish Football its the fact they are turning their back on Scottish Football.

Individual clubs attendances ebb & flow depending on their "success" or the product on the park.

The fact that virtually everyone's attendances are falling at the same time should be scaring them witless.

[Sir David Gray]

Playing about on the web I found out I can get an ST for the Stadium of Light for £410 (£415 for ER). Can SPL explain this to me.

Where is value for money in SPL prices. Just curious.

It is a lot easier to charge less money for season tickets when you're receiving millions of pounds from the TV companies.

[Hibbyradge]

It is a lot easier to charge less money for season tickets when you're receiving millions of pounds from the TV companies.

True, but it costs up to £100 to watch Arsenal and Chelsea and they get more TV money than most.

Which players on show at Tynecastle today were worth £29 to watch?

[HFC 0-7]

De Graaf.

Are you going for Hibs.net sarcastic poster of the year award?

[3pm]

You all need to draw a line under these jokes.

[down-the-slope]

I am finished with Scottish Football, dont even watch highlights of any SPL either for that matter.

Today's game for example a big derby game with virtually no atmosphere whatsover! :rolleyes:

I assume you wernt there then :confused:

[Gatecrasher]

i agree with the OP

i posted well before the 1st goal on the chatbox that the game was crap, i watched the ,man u game instead, first time i have ever done that. i'm not looking forward to the rest of the season :rolleyes:

[frazeHFC]

Playing about on the web I found out I can get an ST for the Stadium of Light for £410 (£415 for ER). Can SPL explain this to me. Where is value for money in SPL prices. Just curious. They get an extra game as well.

[IWasThere2016]

Aye. It is dying a slow and painful one. The lack of competition/variety/excitement is the issue - nevermind that though RP and co's 'solution' was to condense the league further for pure short-sighted self-protectionist reason. Such genius running our game!

[Hibbyradge]

Aye. It is dying a slow and painful one. The lack of competition/variety/excitement is the issue - nevermind that though RP and co's 'solution' was to condense the league further for pure short-sighted self-protectionist reason. Such genius running our game!

Money is the issue, G.

No-one was complaining when we had the likes of Sauzee, Latapy and Mixu playing for us, but those players nearly bankrupted us.

In the EPL, prize money alone is £160m. Their various TV deals total £1.4 billion. EPL clubs get around £25m each from overseas TV deals alone! Man Utd were forecasting commercial revenue of over £100m in February.

I don't think Scottish football would somehow be rejuvenated if we added 4 first division teams to the SPL. The little cash we have would be spread even more thinly and standard would just worsen.

Less than 5000 turned up for the Berwick game and it was only a tenner to get in. I don't think folk would be particularly inspired to pitch up to see Hamilton, Morton, Raith Rovers and Livingston (currently top 4 of 1st division).

I agree a 10 team league doesn't get the juices flowing, but I can't see any ideal solutions.

[Ray_]

Money is the issue, G.

No-one was complaining when we had the likes of Sauzee, Latapy and Mixu playing for us, but those players nearly bankrupted us.

In the EPL, prize money alone is £160m. Their various TV deals total £1.4 billion. EPL clubs get around £25m each from overseas TV deals alone! Man Utd were forecasting commercial revenue of over £100m in February.

I don't think Scottish football would somehow be rejuvenated if we added 4 first division teams to the SPL. The little cash we have would be spread even more thinly and standard would just worsen.

Less than 5000 turned up for the Berwick game and it was only a tenner to get in. I don't think folk would be particularly inspired to pitch up to see Hamilton, Morton, Raith Rovers and Livingston (currently top 4 of 1st division).

I agree a 10 team league doesn't get the juices flowing, but I can't see any ideal solutions.

Don't think it was the players highlighted that nearly bankrupted us, but the other 30-35 exceptionally poor players, that weren't playing a regular part in the team.

[kennyh]

Right now its going to be tough encouraging anyone to go to a game even the ST holders. Its basically pointless for the majority of fans to consider getting a ST as there is no value in it all. If you miss one game you would be better off as a walk up fan.

Hamilton offer ST's for £130. I know its a lowel league but for your £130 you get 18 games all at 3PM on a Saturday ~ remember those anyone, you also get three vouchers to bring a pal to any game and also two FREE ST's for U10's. Thats value for money. Hibs should look at things like this for next season or face an even lower cash injection in the summer.

Quality of football is garbage, how often do we get off our seats in anticipation of a good opportunity. From the games I have been at so far, Callie and Killie away i would say its less than 5 in total. Why pay £22 or £29 as it was yesterday to watch this guff other than through blind loyalty which is what RP is now counting on as CC certainly cant galvanise the players and support any longer.

SPL is in a mess, Hibs are in a bigger mess. I have no answers just realism now that it will be a very long time before we see Easter Road truly bouncing again

[calumb]

The whole product and experience is miles ahead in the epl. Go to a match there and you can enjoy a few pints at the ground, access to good catering facilities
and watch a match played on a pitch that looks like a bowling green which helps the quality of football on show.
In the spl if you want a drink its down to the local boozer, you end up maybe having one more than you want because there going to
be a drought for the next 2 hours which results in frequent trips to the toilet, in between toilet runs you watch a match played on a ploughed field that even messi
would struggle to control a ball or go to tynecastle and watch 22 men on a five aside park then pay a fiver for a cold pie. aye we've got the product spot on up here.

[hibsbollah]

'Scottish football is finished'...what does this even mean? Scottish football is nae very guid, which has been the case ever since i started watching it. Is it poorer in quality than the richest and most successful professional league in the world? Uhhh yes, it is. But comparing the two makes no sense.

Scottish football isnt 'finished'. Pointless and hysterical hyperbole.

[Dr Jimmy]

I watched a league game between the alleged two best teams at u15's in Edinburgh recently. The game consisted of knocking it over the defence and chasing it. The big guys looked better than the wee guys, cos the could muscle in and there were about 3 passes before pocession was lost. The "coaches" on the sidelines barked out orders and demands and all the seemed to care about was winning the game and not the players development. If we are still playing this way we have no hope of producing talent and improving Scottish football. I fear we are becoming a football back water and unless we address the game a kids level we will continue this downward spiral.

[EK_Hibs]

Deary me, OP was yesterday your first Edinburgh Derby or something?
The Derby is ALWAYS frantic, tackles flying in and it's very difficult to get time on the ball and make passes. Sadly any football that was played yesterday was played by the ****bos which is why they won.

Colin Calderwood was apparently at Tynecastle to watch Tottenham pass Hearts off the park and win 0-5. You would think he'd have come away from that game thinking the best way to approach the Derby was to AT LEAST try to get the ball down and play passes through the midfield???
But no, instead all we got yesterday was aimless punts to O'Connor and Agogo!!!

So frustrating.

[sesoim]

Don't think it was the players highlighted that nearly bankrupted us, but the other 30-35 exceptionally poor players, that weren't playing a regular part in the team.


:agree: I totally agree. Sauzee, Latapy and Paatelainen were superb signings who were the main reasons we finished 3rd, got to the SC Final, hammered Hearts, and also brought in some extra fans along the way.

Out of the £14.5M that our debt eventually grew to in 2004, the vast majority was because we were still paying for three stands at the time, and also because we lost around £2M through being relegated. Sauzee's first contract (from reports at the time) was only £3k a week, and his next one was £6k a week. The others would have been on less. Great value for money actually compared to the money most of Petrie's managers have thrown away on awful signings since then.

Frankly, if we had a squad of about 15 youngsters plus a core of 6 or 7 players like the aforementioned, I think we'd do pretty well this season.

Obviously we'd need to appoint a half-decent manager as well, though.

[Brebners Bookie]

I am finished with Scottish Football, dont even watch highlights of any SPL either for that matter.

Today's game for example a big derby game with virtually no atmosphere whatsover! :rolleyes:


Atmosphere was there so im assuming you weren't

Heard someone on the radio say ' this is the end for scottish football' as well and its just not true, what are we all just gonna stop going and all the clubs will pack it in? The standard is bad and probably won't get better for a while, but im sure it will get better.

[s.a.m]

I don't think it's been as bad as this though.

Scottish football has had some fantastic players.

Laudrup, Gasgoine, Larsson, Hately, Butcher, Dalglish, Sauzee, etc etc.

Ask yourself this question, who is the best player in the SPL now?

Mind boggling.

With the exception of Dalglish, who belonged to an earlier footballing era, all of these players came from other football nations. You could probably argue that our footballing decline is, at least partially related to that time when money was being flashed about, and clubs went down the road of importing players in an increasingly desperate attempt to keep up. We have had some fantastic players, but we're not producing very many of them ourselves. What's probably even more important is that we're not even producing half-way decent players of the routine / less glamorous variety, in sufficient quantity either.

[Bohemian_Hibee]

Fair play to those who are willing to pay anything up to £30 to watch SPL on a weekly basis. But to say you are not getting value for money is the understatement of the year. Based on the quality on view, I would find it very hard to pay more than £15 to regularly go to see Hibs play. Sad, but true. Anyone thinking differently cannot see the woods from the trees

As I've said before, there's a fine line between loyalty and insanity!!!

[skipster7]

I don't think it's been as bad as this though.

Scottish football has had some fantastic players.

Laudrup, Gasgoine, Larsson, Hately, Butcher, Dalglish, Sauzee, etc etc.

Ask yourself this question, who is the best player in the SPL now?

Mind boggling.
probably Davis from the huns, and that says it all.

[Newhaven]

The most depressing aspect about today's game wasn't the scoreline.

It was the fact that the standard of football was utterly miserable.

They changed the TV channel at half time and I saw more skill in one minute that was on show for the entire 90 at Tynecastle.

Hearts were woeful. They were just less woeful than Hibs.

£29 to watch that utter dross? Best joke of the festival.

I would say the £28 we charge for Cat A games is a bigger joke. Folk aren't going to pay it anymore.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

sadly, I didn't even listen on radio. I had better things to be getting on with. once upon a time I never missed a Hibs game.
i hate Scottish football now. Sub standard and never moved on. all about aggression and winning the battle no matter what. and that long ball hoofing is simply painful.
my only regret, I wasn't born early enough to see the F5 or Turnbulls T's.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

In my recent experience it appears that a few of us around HNEs age have come to the same conclusion. Used to go along to ER in a decent sized group, very few now bother.

[Dashing Bob S]

'Scottish football is finished'...what does this even mean? Scottish football is nae very guid, which has been the case ever since i started watching it. Is it poorer in quality than the richest and most successful professional league in the world? Uhhh yes, it is. But comparing the two makes no sense.

Scottish football isnt 'finished'. Pointless and hysterical hyperbole.

I agree with what you say to an extent. It's never been that great, simply because its a smaller and therefore poorer footballing market than other countries we compared ourselves with, due to our conceit and the fact that for historical/cultural reasons, we punched above our weight.

Now in the global, television-driven football market, we are dying a slow death and the game isn't sustainable at the level we aspire it to be at. I keep on about this but I really think the long term answer is for the clubs of smaller countries to form regional leagues in Europe. In the case of the northern European nations, such a structure would be competitive and attract more attention from broadcasters due to the prevalence of English, the culturally ascendant language.

Shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic or celebrating the respite of some short-lived OF-dominated broadcast deal we can scam is ultimately futile. We have to accept the fact that our league isn't competitive, isn't interesting and never will be to a global market as long as it remains constrained in a purely Scottish context.

[Alfred E Newman]

De Graaf.

Its not finished, but it is over loaded with too many third rate foriegn players like the above mentioned.

[Irish_Steve]

I`ll give a slightly different slant to it. I grew up in Northern Ireland and din`t move to Scotland until 1989 as it involved work. For my first ever Hibs game (at Easter Rd), my dad, my brother and I stood in the Aberdeen end because I was going to a job in Aberdeen - we just wanted to take in a game of football. Hibs lost 2-1 with Steve Archibald missing a penalty

My brother lived in Abbeyhill and everytime I came down, we would go to the game sitting amongst the home fans this time. Neither of us had any great affection for Hibs at the time, again, it was just a case of wanting to see a game of football. However, football has a habit of sneaking up on you and before long we were both season ticket holders as I had moved to Edinburgh.

In the 20-odd yrs I`ve supported Hibs, there has been and few ups and a lot of downs and to be honest, I think we have only had two good teams in that period - the one with Jackson, O`Neill, Crunchie etc and the Latapy, Sauzee, Mixu one. To be brutally frank, a lot of the time we have been just totally crap.

At one stage we had four season tickets (me, my wife and our two boys) but first my wife stopped going, then my youngest and then me and the eldest gave up a few yrs back.

Scottish football at the moment is dying on it`s feet. I went to the St. Mirren game with my eldest and as we we`re getting played off the park, all I wanted to do was go home.

Sunday`s game was just about the final straw - like an earlier poster, I turned over to watch Man U/Arsenal. I`ll still be wanting us to win every game we play but it will be from afar for a wee while yet.

Rant over

[sahib]

Scottish football is finished

Jings, the season just flashes past when you get older. How did we do?

[marleyhib]

Scottish football has always been mince, it just seems that bit worse when we are woeful.

It's definitely not helped by the current economic climate and the global explosion of the EPL and the money that trickles down into English football. It just makes our game look worse, means more teams to buy any half decent players we bring through and that people prefer to watch decent football on the telly.

Hibs are suffering from selling any half decent player we had in the last five years and not re-investing in the team, our conveyor belt of decent young players seems to have stopped - we can't afford to buy or pay the wages of decent new players.

I think Petrie got lucky with Mowbray and Mowbray got lucky with the crop of youngsters he inherited, yet we won nothing.

Petrie should have backed Collins and not the players.

Calderwood is the final straw for me, a complete shambles - Petrie should go with him

[fatbloke]

It is a lot easier to charge less money for season tickets when you're receiving millions of pounds from the TV companies.

good point:thumbsup: not something I had considered.

Me and my missus are foster carers but when i suggest to foster kids going to ER they threaten to report to their social Worker - says it all i reckon.

[Jonnyboy]

Scottish football has always been mince, it just seems that bit worse when we are woeful.

It's definitely not helped by the current economic climate and the global explosion of the EPL and the money that trickles down into English football. It just makes our game look worse, means more teams to buy any half decent players we bring through and that people prefer to watch decent football on the telly.

Hibs are suffering from selling any half decent player we had in the last five years and not re-investing in the team, our conveyor belt of decent young players seems to have stopped - we can't afford to buy or pay the wages of decent new players.

I think Petrie got lucky with Mowbray and Mowbray got lucky with the crop of youngsters he inherited, yet we won nothing.

Petrie should have backed Collins and not the players.

Calderwood is the final straw for me, a complete shambles - Petrie should go with him

No it hasn't

Celtic Rangers and Aberdeen have all won European trophies

Hibs have been to the semi finals of both the European and Fairs Cups defeating amongst others Barcelona

It might be mince now right enough :wink:

[fatbloke]

No it hasn't

Celtic Rangers and Aberdeen have all won European trophies

Hibs have been to the semi finals of both the European and Fairs Cups defeating amongst others Barcelona

It might be mince now right enough :wink:

​Understatement of the decade young man.

[Jonnyboy]

​Understatement of the decade young man.

:top marks Have to award that score thanks to you calling me a 'young man' :greengrin

[fatbloke]

:top marks Have to award that score thanks to you calling me a 'young man' :greengrin

compared to me you are just a bairn.

[Mixu62]

No it hasn't

Celtic Rangers and Aberdeen have all won European trophies

Hibs have been to the semi finals of both the European and Fairs Cups defeating amongst others Barcelona

It might be mince now right enough :wink:

That to me is the yardstick we should measure our football by - how they do in Europe. Nowadays we consider it a success if any Scottish clubs make it to the group stages. That used to be the minimum requirement. That and the national team, which has been mince for over a decade now. Out of interest, when was the last time Hampden sold out for an international game? When I was a nipper Hampden was an awesome sight, even though it was a hovel, packed with 70000 mental folk all screaming. (The fact that they were screaming "let me oot" is neither here nor there!)

[Steve-O]

The price of going to games has been going up and up whilst the quality on offer has been plummeting for years now. 28 quid to see us get easily beaten by Rangers, Celtic and Hearts? Wasn't even that long ago when I'd almost expect a result v Rangers / Celtic at ER! Now we're lucky if we even get a shot on goal in the entire 90 minutes, and the worst of it is they aren't even that good either!

Like others though, I really struggle to see how things are going to improve. 10 team league would be crud, and a 20 team league would be crud as well.

We aspire all season to qualify for Europe, only to be punted out at the first attempt - what's the point?? :confused:

[healfyhibee]

I think that the reason the standard and size of English football is a result of the fans supporting their team through thick and thin. I think it depends why you watch football. If you watch it to see the highest level of technical skill and athleticism don't go to Easter Road. If you fancy following a legendary team from the city you were born in go through all the ups and perhaps mostly downs of a season so at the end of it you can say 'I am the opposite of a Jambo' then do go down there, I would if I still lived there. To expect a barca level performance is naive! Scottish football has always been pretty bad bar a few legends that come through every so often. Dinny panic!

[Hibs On Tour]

I don't think it's been as bad as this though.

Scottish football has had some fantastic players.

Laudrup, Gasgoine, Larsson, Hately, Butcher, Dalglish, Sauzee, etc etc.

Ask yourself this question, who is the best player in the SPL now?

Mind boggling.

The last of those players to grace the SPL was Larsson and that was 2004. Past history now. Its a complete crock of ****** nowadays with IMHO no hope of returning to the days of those kinds of names. That's both good and bad as it *should* focus clubs on producing home-grown talent. However, thus far its seemed to result just as much in clubs employing foreign journeymen players who are no better than locals. Bob is right in that the only way to rise Scottish football long-term is to get some kind of Euro leagues on the go - could easily be local [and even regional] with promotion/relegation with the top X amount being in a euro league the following year or alternatively a kind of expanded europa league. We still need to address the issues with this stupid 4-times-a-season ignore-the-pish-on-offer crap we're served up for our own leagues however and will likely take some clubs having to fold - to be blunt we simply have far too many clubs for a country of our size and population to support.

[mjhibby]

'Scottish football is finished'...what does this even mean? Scottish football is nae very guid, which has been the case ever since i started watching it. Is it poorer in quality than the richest and most successful professional league in the world? Uhhh yes, it is. But comparing the two makes no sense.

Scottish football isnt 'finished'. Pointless and hysterical hyperbole.

It may well not be finished but with the attendances falling the product on the park will only get worse.even if we as a club produce youngsters like we have in the past they will be sold on like fletcher,brown whittaker etc.I said during last season that this was the worst top division since the early 80s and the europe fiasco didnt surprise me one bit.the worrying thing is that there is not one footballer on show in scotland who you could say even comes close to latapy or sauzee and that to me is frightening.The cost keeps going up as the quality drops.Watching old hibs game with the likes of micahel oneil,kevin mcallister,darren jackson etc shows just how much the standard has dropped.
Ive no solution to this but like a lot of people i dont even watch the spl highlights and having watched the weekends action from the epl i just cant be bothered watching it.I see dark days ahead for scottish football and unlees money is pumped into our game i fear we may return to the days of the early 80s where crowds of 8000 are the norm and only the occasional golden generation of youngsters will lift in every now and then.Sorry to be so depressing but the facts are there for all to see and should this hertz side finish third then that will be a shocking indictment of scottish footballa and no doubt we will be even more humiliated in europe next season.

[Jonnyboy]

compared to me you are just a bairn.

Wow you are really old :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Playing about on the web I found out I can get an ST for the Stadium of Light for £410 (£415 for ER). Can SPL explain this to me.

Where is value for money in SPL prices. Just curious.


Matchday revenue accounts for 19% of Sunderlands income.

[Kaiser1962]

:agree: I totally agree. Sauzee, Latapy and Paatelainen were superb signings who were the main reasons we finished 3rd, got to the SC Final, hammered Hearts, and also brought in some extra fans along the way.

Out of the £14.5M that our debt eventually grew to in 2004, the vast majority was because we were still paying for three stands at the time, and also because we lost around £2M through being relegated. Sauzee's first contract (from reports at the time) was only £3k a week, and his next one was £6k a week. The others would have been on less. Great value for money actually compared to the money most of Petrie's managers have thrown away on awful signings since then.

Frankly, if we had a squad of about 15 youngsters plus a core of 6 or 7 players like the aforementioned, I think we'd do pretty well this season.

Obviously we'd need to appoint a half-decent manager as well, though.


Thats nonsense. Sorry.

[The Falcon]

:agree: I totally agree. Sauzee, Latapy and Paatelainen were superb signings who were the main reasons we finished 3rd, got to the SC Final, hammered Hearts, and also brought in some extra fans along the way.


Yet we still lost over £2m that season.

[Phil MaGlass]

That to me is the yardstick we should measure our football by - how they do in Europe. Nowadays we consider it a success if any Scottish clubs make it to the group stages. That used to be the minimum requirement. That and the national team, which has been mince for over a decade now. Out of interest, when was the last time Hampden sold out for an international game? When I was a nipper Hampden was an awesome sight, even though it was a hovel, packed with 70000 mental folk all screaming. (The fact that they were screaming "let me oot" is neither here nor there!)

I think it was sold out for
France
Italy
Spain
Holland
Macedonia was around 48thou
Norway 50 thou
Scotland are actually one of the top supported teams when Internationals are being played, take a look on saturday, should be one of the biggest supported games anywhere.

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

The last of those players to grace the SPL was Larsson and that was 2004. Past history now. Its a complete crock of ****** nowadays with IMHO no hope of returning to the days of those kinds of names. That's both good and bad as it *should* focus clubs on producing home-grown talent. However, thus far its seemed to result just as much in clubs employing foreign journeymen players who are no better than locals. Bob is right in that the only way to rise Scottish football long-term is to get some kind of Euro leagues on the go - could easily be local [and even regional] with promotion/relegation with the top X amount being in a euro league the following year or alternatively a kind of expanded europa league. We still need to address the issues with this stupid 4-times-a-season ignore-the-pish-on-offer crap we're served up for our own leagues however and will likely take some clubs having to fold - to be blunt we simply have far too many clubs for a country of our size and population to support.


Nutshell.

(but don't forget the glory-hunters....)

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think it was sold out forFranceItalySpainHollandMacedonia was around 48thouNorway 50 thouScotland are actually one of the top supported teams when Internationals are being played, take a look on saturday, should be one of the biggest supported games anywhere. Im sure i read that Scotlands total home gate for the group was looking like its going to be higher than the rest of the teams combined.Maybe its Scottish League football that is doomed.