Edinburgh Trams

[MountcastleHibs]

Labour and the Tories have voted through the proposals to have the trams running from Haymarket to the airport, at a cost of £700 million. The Lib Dems were defeated on continuing it along to Princes Street to St Andrews Square, at a cost of £776 million. Interestingly the business community supported this option.

The SNP group voted against both proposals, and wanted to cancel the project. The total cost of that would have been £610 million, the cheapest of the three options.

I am totally opposed to this tram line, but if we must have it, it is totally ridiculous it is not running to at least St Andrews Square. Shame on the Tories and Labour.

[Scouse Hibee]

The trams= Total Farce. The two best bus services in Edinburgh 100 & 22 enough said!

[Jack]

Half the line for double the cost and still they, the politicians, play petty politics while Edinburgh crumbles.
.
The tr project has been a complete and utter disgrace from start to never be finished.
.
As I said on the Bounce last week they should stick a tram on the top of the Parthenon to show the world the idiots who claim to run our city haven't learned anything in over 100 years. The parallels of the 2 projects bear a stunning similarity and a disgrace to boot!

[Hibs Class]

Shame on them all. There isn't any party that comes out of this disgrace with any credit. Politicians at their worst.

[Beefster]

Outside a few government IT projects that have delivered, effectively, bugger all for their money, the trams must be in with a shout of being the worst managed public sector project ever in the UK.

Utter shambles and it doesn't help that it's going to do **** all to ease Edinburgh's traffic.

[SkintHibby]

If I was a tax paying resident of Edinburgh (which I'm not) I would be going off my absolute rocker at this!!!

ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL!!!!!!!

I regularly drive to Inverness on the notorious A9 and the Scottish government should have gave the money to the upgrade of this road.:agree:

:grr:

[lucky]

If I was a tax paying resident of Edinburgh (which I'm not) I would be going off my absolute rocker at this!!!

ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL!!!!!!!

I regularly drive to Inverness on the notorious A9 and the Scottish government should have gave the money to the upgrade of this road.:agree:

:grr:

Rather money was spent on public transport. The trams are an excellent project which has been appalling managed. Hopefully once the first phase is complete the rest will be finished

[Westie1875]

Outside a few government IT projects that have delivered, effectively, bugger all for their money, the trams must be in with a shout of being the worst managed public sector project ever in the WORLD.

Utter shambles and it doesn't help that it's going to do **** all to ease Edinburgh's traffic.

:wink: Thats more like it.

An absolute farce, who on earth is going to benefit from this? Just think what that £700m could have been spent on, someone somewhere needs hauled over the coals for this. :bitchy:

[heretoday]

They should have run a branch to the airport off the Fife rail line.

[steakbake]

They should have run a branch to the airport off the Fife rail line.

I'm with you on that one. Absolute lunacy to bring back the trams in a city like Edinburgh where there really are only a couple of arterial routes out to the airport.

It occurred to me one day when I was flying to Krakow, itself has a railway line within about half a mile of the airport which takes you in to the centre.

From day one, it was a vanity project and we're now in a massive hole of public funding because of some idiot who thought it would be a lovely wee collective way of getting people from A-B.

In years to come, students will be reading the story of the Edinburgh Trams projects as an example of how not to run an infrastructure project.

[Billy McKirdy]

This is a disaster for Edinburgh :confused:

I have always been supportive of the tram project in principle, other cities throughout the world have managed to build systems which have benefited there locales, but only Edinburgh could mess this one up big style :rolleyes:.

In my opinion, this has been a political disaster from start to finish, political parties have used this project as a weapon against each other and the people of Edinburgh will ultimately be the ones to suffer.

As I said I have been a supporter of the trams from the very beginning and for very good reasons, its an environmentally sustainable mode of transport which takes the emphasis away from the diesel engine and towards a cleaner (electric) solution.

This may surprise you, but I am a bus driver with Lothian Buses and while on the face of it, it may seem that I am supporting a travel system which is in direct competition to the buses, but I have always tried to see matters in the longer term, road transport (buses, cars and trucks) are choking the roads and are a major contributor to pollution, finding an enviromental solution is a massive priority to the quality of our communities in the future.

This project could have been completed with minimum hassle but the major political parties in this country have combined to make us the laughing stock of Britain (and beyond).

I dont know what the answer is now, while we have our leaders doing all they can to make this situation worse, we are going to go nowhere.

A sad day for Edinburgh :confused:

[bighairyfaeleith]

Outside a few government IT projects that have delivered, effectively, bugger all for their money, the trams must be in with a shout of being the worst managed public sector project ever in the UK.

Utter shambles and it doesn't help that it's going to do **** all to ease Edinburgh's traffic.

:agree:

Makes the scottish parliament project look well run.

[bighairyfaeleith]

They should have run a branch to the airport off the Fife rail line.

That is all that was needed, have it link up with the train line at the gyle, much like the tram is and people could have got a regular train to the city centre. Trouble is that would have bypassed the councils bus company!!

[Betty Boop]

Why don't people organise and show their disgust at this whole fiasco ? Its sickening how folk all roll over and just accept crap in this country.

[heretoday]

Why don't people organise and show their disgust at this whole fiasco ? Its sickening how folk all roll over and just accept crap in this country.

Think positive. Let's start a Stenhouse Tourist Board to entice visitors off the tram so they can sample all that Stenny has to offer.

[khib70]

Think positive. Let's start a Stenhouse Tourist Board to entice visitors off the tram so they can sample all that Stenny has to offer.
:agree:Bain's pies:not worth

[Betty Boop]

:agree:Bain's pies:not worth

I've never tried a Bain's pie. Am I missing something ? :greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

:agree:Bain's pies:not worth

best pie in edinburgh bar none!! :thumbsup:

[ginger_rice]

This is a disaster for Edinburgh :confused:

I have always been supportive of the tram project in principle, other cities throughout the world have managed to build systems which have benefited there locales, but only Edinburgh could mess this one up big style :rolleyes:.

This may surprise you, but I am a bus driver with Lothian Buses and while on the face of it, it may seem that I am supporting a travel system which is in direct competition to the buses, but I have always tried to see matters in the longer term, road transport (buses, cars and trucks) are choking the roads and are a major contributor to pollution, finding an enviromental solution is a massive priority to the quality of our communities in the future.:

IMHO Edinburgh has one of the best bus services in the whole of Britain, unfortunately you may find yourself working for First Bus or Stagecoach in order for the city to pay for this whole mess.

Those politicians who voted for the retention of this scheme way back should be up in court for misuse of public funds!

[khib70]

I've never tried a Bain's pie. Am I missing something ? :greengrin

You sure are BB. Mince pies with real mince in them. Worth a trip to Stenhouse Cross just to try them. (So they must be pretty damn good:greengrin)

[hibsbollah]

Hopefully once its up and running and posting a profit it will be extended out to leith as planned. As it stands running it to Haymarket is a ridiculous half way house.

[Beefster]

Hopefully once its up and running and posting a profit it will be extended out to leith as planned. As it stands running it to Haymarket is a ridiculous half way house.

Isn't it thought to be almost certain to make a loss of somewhere between £4m and £11m per annum?

[hibsbollah]

Isn't it thought to be almost certain to make a loss of somewhere between £4m and £11m per annum?

Oh well. So much for that prediction then. What a ****ing shambles.

[Pete]

I've never tried a Bain's pie. Am I missing something ? :greengrin

They're nice but that's about it. Too much gravy.

Simpsons in Carrick Knowe do much better ones.

[bighairyfaeleith]

They're nice but that's about it. Too much gravy.

Simpsons in Carrick Knowe do much better ones.

Nah its the gravy that makes them so tasty. It also makes them dangerous if you are wearing a tie!!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

[ginger_rice]

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Did he not used to post on here in the past :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Agree that the existing railway lines were by far the best option, the line from Fife runs past the end of the runways and there's another line just south of the A8 that could all easily have been linked to the terminal at the Airport. It would then have been simple to get to and from the airport from almost anywhere in Scotland. Instead, we still have to either drive or change transport before getting to the airport.

[RyeSloan]

Agree that the existing railway lines were by far the best option, the line from Fife runs past the end of the runways and there's another line just south of the A8 that could all easily have been linked to the terminal at the Airport. It would then have been simple to get to and from the airport from almost anywhere in Scotland. Instead, we still have to either drive or change transport before getting to the airport.

There was a proposal to link the airport to the national rail infrastructure..it was called EARL if I remeber rightly. It would have conected something like 65% of the scottish population to a rail link to the nations main airport. Can't remember why it was cancelled (probably far too sensible) but seems like a total missed op.

As for the trams....£700m to run one line from the airport to Haymarket seems almost impossible. However with £610m spent the proposal of the SNP to scrap it now seems absolutely bizzare. What should happen is that the Scottish Government should take immediate and direct control of the project, fund the funding gap from existing capital expanditure programs (re-prioritisation it's called!) and set in motion a judical review into the handling and spending of £610m worth of public money. We should have the right to know who ******ed up where and most importantly there must be new guidelines created fro future public works to ensure this farce never happens again.

[Jack]

There was a proposal to link the airport to the national rail infrastructure..it was called EARL if I remeber rightly. It would have conected something like 65% of the scottish population to a rail link to the nations main airport. Can't remember why it was cancelled (probably far too sensible) but seems like a total missed op.As for the trams....£700m to run one line from the airport to Haymarket seems almost impossible. However with £610m spent the proposal of the SNP to scrap it now seems absolutely bizzare. What should happen is that the Scottish Government should take immediate and direct control of the project, fund the funding gap from existing capital expanditure programs (re-prioritisation it's called!) and set in motion a judical review into the handling and spending of £610m worth of public money. We should have the right to know who ******ed up where and most importantly there must be new guidelines created fro future public works to ensure this farce never happens again. Would you still say no to cancel if it was over £1000 million? Because what its costs to build half a tr line Edinburgh is committed to £15 million a year for the next 30 years on top of that to bail the sorry state of affairs out!

[Posh Swanny]

This is a disaster for Edinburgh :confused:

I have always been supportive of the tram project in principle, other cities throughout the world have managed to build systems which have benefited there locales, but only Edinburgh could mess this one up big style :rolleyes:.

In my opinion, this has been a political disaster from start to finish, political parties have used this project as a weapon against each other and the people of Edinburgh will ultimately be the ones to suffer.

As I said I have been a supporter of the trams from the very beginning and for very good reasons, its an environmentally sustainable mode of transport which takes the emphasis away from the diesel engine and towards a cleaner (electric) solution.

This may surprise you, but I am a bus driver with Lothian Buses and while on the face of it, it may seem that I am supporting a travel system which is in direct competition to the buses, but I have always tried to see matters in the longer term, road transport (buses, cars and trucks) are choking the roads and are a major contributor to pollution, finding an enviromental solution is a massive priority to the quality of our communities in the future.

This project could have been completed with minimum hassle but the major political parties in this country have combined to make us the laughing stock of Britain (and beyond).

I dont know what the answer is now, while we have our leaders doing all they can to make this situation worse, we are going to go nowhere.

A sad day for Edinburgh :confused:

Totally agree. Like you, I am a long-standing supporter of Trams - one of my main arguments being the state of Princes St at 5.20pm each day as each bus takes five minutes to fill up with three more waiting in line behind. Edinburgh needs (or will need) a mass-transit system but the mis-management of the project from start to finish has been disgusting. One line should have been deliverable without too much fuss - do it successfully and extend the network from there. They're going to have to find something else now because even discussing another line would be political suicide.

[hibbytam]

Totally agree. Like you, I am a long-standing supporter of Trams - one of my main arguments being the state of Princes St at 5.20pm each day as each bus takes five minutes to fill up with three more waiting in line behind. Edinburgh needs (or will need) a mass-transit system but the mis-management of the project from start to finish has been disgusting. One line should have been deliverable without too much fuss - do it successfully and extend the network from there. They're going to have to find something else now because even discussing another line would be political suicide.

I'm much the same, the trams would be of great benefit to the city of Edinburgh, but there has been far too much incompetence, not to mention corruption involved. One thing that has confused me throughout is that Edinburgh used to have an internal rail line, which is mostly still there. A good example is on Easter Road. Why could that not have been adapted and used?

Anyway, my particular addition to this discussion is to point out this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14713476 Scottish government withholding funding because a line to Haymarket isn't what they were paying for.

[RyeSloan]

Would you still say no to cancel if it was over £1000 million? Because what its costs to build half a tr line Edinburgh is committed to £15 million a year for the next 30 years on top of that to bail the sorry state of affairs out!

That's only due to the fact that the Scottish Government are forcing Edinburgh council to borrow to finance the shortfall and of course due to the fact that the city has zero strategic reserves nor additional fund raising abilities.

Also while the the total cost of borrowing £230m at 5% or so across 30 years is about £450m you can't simply say that the cost is £1000m in todays money. People don't buy a 200k house on a 5% 30 year mortage and then tell their family they have paid 390k for a house do they?!? Also £15m a year today is not the same as £15m a year in 20 years. The relative size of the debt servicing drops quite significantly due to inflation.

Anyway I get your point and that's exactly why I said this should be taken over by the Scottish Government and the funding shortfall covered via existing capital expenditure budgets and anyway the answer is still yes, spend what is required to at least complete the line....otherwise you really are throwing £600m+ down the drain.

[easty]

Dunno if it's already been mentioned, but it appears the trams will go all the way to St Andrews Square now. Although they might change thier minds again tomorrow I suppose.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/Dramatic-Uturn-by-SNP-will.6828345.jp

[GlesgaeHibby]

Dunno if it's already been mentioned, but it appears the trams will go all the way to St Andrews Square now. Although they might change thier minds again tomorrow I suppose.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/Dramatic-Uturn-by-SNP-will.6828345.jp

Can be the only option if they are to go ahead. They must either run to the city centre or be scrapped altogether. Running to Haymarket is not an option IMO.

[heretoday]

Bains and Simpsons could be fighting it out for the pie concession on the trams route. They'll be hiring multi-lingual pie sellers.

"Mais certainment, madame. Votre "pie" est fraiche aujourd'hui. Et peut-etre aussi un "cup-a-soup" avec ca! Carrot et coriander? Pas de probleme!

[Jack]

If the Scottish Government were in for 500m for the full line how come they're not withholding half the money when only half the line is getting built but were going to lopp 72m off for it not reaching St Andrews Square?

[hibsbollah]

Dunno if it's already been mentioned, but it appears the trams will go all the way to St Andrews Square now. Although they might change thier minds again tomorrow I suppose.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/Dramatic-Uturn-by-SNP-will.6828345.jp

Does any ******* actually know whats going on? The only thing we've learnt in the last few months is whatever is being reported one week is usually contradicted the next.

[J-C]

New proposal to take trams all the way along Princes St being backed by the SNP, at first I was surprised as they have always been against the trams but the cost of only taking the trams as far as Haymarket made it unworkable due to extra costa and legal expenditure. If we're going pay all this extra, no point stopping at Haymarket as it's false ecconomy, may as well carry on to Princes St.

[lapsedhibee]

Can be the only option if they are to go ahead. They must either run to the city centre or be scrapped altogether. Running to Haymarket is not an option IMO.

Course it is. Simply introduce an "Oyster" travelcard like what they have in London, then passengers who insist on going all the way into the city centre can alight from their tram at Haymarket and jump on the next train to Waverley. :agree:

[Wembley67]

Woohoo....they have reversed the decision and now will run them along Princes Street, I'm so happy.

[Beefster]

Worst. Council. Ever.

[hibsbollah]

Worst. Council. Ever.

i dunno about that. Try getting a replacement cardboard waste box from Mogadishu District Council. Theyre worse than useless.

[Jack]

Still just a tr then?

[Beefster]

i dunno about that. Try getting a replacement cardboard waste box from Mogadishu District Council. Theyre worse than useless.

Thanks for the heads up. Thankfully, I hadn't yet handed over the cheque for that studio flat in Mogadishu City Centre.

[lapsedhibee]

Thankfully, I hadn't yet handed over the cheque for that studio flat in Mogadishu City Centre.

Wise. Mogadishu council hasn't even implemented a tenancy deposit protection scheme yet! :wtf:

[HibsMax]

Apologies if already posted elsewhere......

Edinburgh Trams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ebaDe3eiQIA)

[J-C]

Apologies if already posted elsewhere......

Edinburgh Trams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ebaDe3eiQIA)


Love the fact that this wee vid thought the trams were going all the way to Leith haha