Why we can turn it around

[keep the faith]

Right, loads of threads on why things are a complete mess. Here's why I think there is some light.

I'm struggling to think of a larger scale team re-build in the clubs history than what we are seeing now. The combination of the sub standard and the inconsistent, fairweather player, made up our team when CC took over. A team capable of the odd result, but with no long term viability. CC gave everyone a chance and made absolutely the right decisions in who was released and who was let go. He has brought in young players with good technique (Palson, Thornhill, Osborne, Airey) who can learn and wont be pushed over. He brought in width pace and passion for the club (Ivan), He brought in experienced campaigners (OHanlon, Agogo, Sodge) to work with potential like Hanlon, Booth and Stephens and he brought in the best striker in the SPL (GOC). So far so good.

He also brought in Martin Scott. Cheers for that Derek Adams.

The problem right now is down to a few things and its about deciding if we have the faith to see this thing through.

No right back. I have a feeling Towell wil be back before the window closes. Perhaps CC thought Hart would cover until we could sort something out and he gets injured again.

One up front - I kinda feel for the guy here. Whats the chances that Sodje, Agogo and Airey would all get injured over the first few weeks?? OConnor has done magnificently, but we cant be playing with one striker. If Airey goes, Griffiths signs up and Sodje and Agogo reach fitness, it would be a reasonable 2 from 4 every week.

The midfield - For me the biggest issue. If we dont sign someone with a bit of creativiy and guile we we be dispairing all season. We have decent players but no where near enough dynamic or edge for this level. We need a boss in there. Where you get one in our range is the big question though and again I cant see past Mikey Stewart. Interesting he was training with us. I wonder if CC was eying a move? We really do need someone with experience and arrogance in there to compliment the Osbornes and Thornhills or it will be all sideways passes and wide open spaces. Any thoughts on who else would fit that bill? I think we may see DeGraffe out on loan again before the end of the month, his wage could be used.

Lastly CC himself. I am defending him in this post I know, and while I think he has a plan and could come through, I do worry about his inability to get a response from the team since he has came in. Will this come with trust and respect from what is now his own squad. I think he is worth a punt here. With a little time this squad (and the options it gives) would hold its own:

Stack

Booth, OHanlon, Stephens/Hanlon, Towell

Sproule, Osborne, Stewart/That type, Thornhill

OConnor, Griffiths
Subs from
Brown
Murray
Stevenson
Galbraith
Wotherspoon
Agogo
Sodje

Thoughts?

[sunshine1875]

I always think that the true test of a good manager is whether he has the ability to turn things around during a game. The really good managers can see things going wrong before most do and do something about it early.

In our last three leagues games we have been worse in the second half compared to the first. Yes - I know that we won at ICT scoring a late goal, but we were run-over for most of that game and only scored because the ICT defenders fell asleep and left GOC in acres of space!

Why are we more pants in the second half compared to the first, Surely, a competent manager should have got a reaction being 1-2 down in each of our last two matches. In our case we were worse!

[Niffy]

Mustnt forget a good few players will be out of contract at the end of this season , maybe just as the team is gelling together well ... then back to square 1 next season?

[Sir David Gray]

Mustnt forget a good few players will be out of contract at the end of this season , maybe just as the team is gelling together well ... then back to square 1 next season?

Yep we have;

Graham Stack
Michael Hart
Ian Murray
Edwin de Graaf
Garry O'Connor
Lewis Stevenson
Junior Agogo
Victor Palsson
Akpo Sodje
Mark Brown

All out of contract in the summer and able to hold talks with other clubs in January.

[yekimevol]

i agree with almost everything but i think wortherspoon plays better at right back than anyware else on the park, i would rather see a cb and a lm brought in.
first 11

stack

wortherspoon o'hanlon hanlon booth

sproule Osborne palsson galbraith / new boy

o'connor sodje

subs
brown
stephens / new
thornhill
scott
horner
murray
agogo

thats at-lest a top six team to me. i would think 30 to 40 goals from the strikers, a few from the midfield and i rate o'hanlon to be a leader at the back. Also im still happy with the manager but would like a assistant who knows the spl and such or brought in someone caldo trusts i still find it strange that he has not.

[snooky]

Yep we have; ....


......All out of contract in the summer and able to hold talks with other clubs in January.

And cynics might say, "Great! Our next manager can bring his own players in when that lot have gone"
:stirrer:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Quite a few ifs in the OP there.
I'm finding it increasingly difficult week on week to see any evidence of why or who could turn things around for us, and I don't just mean this season. Never been so demoralised by Hibs as I have these past few months.

[BSEJVT]

Yep we have;

Graham Stack
Michael Hart
Ian Murray
Edwin de Graaf
Garry O'Connor
Lewis Stevenson
Junior Agogo
Victor Palsson
Akpo Sodje
Mark Brown

All out of contract in the summer and able to hold talks with other clubs in January.

To be honest and all sentiment aside, right now the only one of those I would definitely want to keep is O'Connor, Sodje although extremely limited probably deserves consideration as his goal scoring record with Hibs is good.

Stack, Brown, De Graff, Hart & Murray will be amongst the 5 biggest earners at the club and dont do anything near enough to justify it IMO

I havent see Agogo so couldnt comment, Palsson is a waste of a talent and Stevenson must be the only player in history to play one good game and get 5 years out of it.

All in all another batch of reasons to be cheerful, that this lot will likely also depart.

It shows you exactly what a shower of sh*t Hughes left, (I accept Agogo, Palsson & Sodje and arguably O'Connor and Stevenson (re-signed) are CC signings)

[Heedersnvolleys]

I don't know what to make of CC! If this current form is not bad enough it is what he done or didn't
do when he first took over that concerns me. He must be the only manager that never inspired that
initial resurgent of his players who should have been out to impress. Secondly if he was decent at all he should not need all his own players he should have got at least a slight improvement with what was there but that never happened other than the night at Ibrox! Now he has his own players ad a pre-season to get his ideas across but still no difference. Then again he got Nottingham Forest
promoted but that was from a league they should never have been in and had a much bigger budget
than the rest in that league. He is obviously highly thought of by others. :confused:

[sahib]

Right, loads of threads on why things are a complete mess. Here's why I think there is some light.

..................................................

Thoughts?

Why I think there may be light is:

1. The players are not that bad
2. CC must konw something about managing or is willing to learn.
3. This is the SPL and there are always 4 or 5 really crap teams that we can beat (hopefully we are not one of them :pray:)

[Part/Time Supporter]

I always think that the true test of a good manager is whether he has the ability to turn things around during a game. The really good managers can see things going wrong before most do and do something about it early.

In our last three leagues games we have been worse in the second half compared to the first. Yes - I know that we won at ICT scoring a late goal, but we were run-over for most of that game and only scored because the ICT defenders fell asleep and left GOC in acres of space!

Why are we more pants in the second half compared to the first, Surely, a competent manager should have got a reaction being 1-2 down in each of our last two matches. In our case we were worse!

Using your own logic, you could point to the good run in February / March last season, where Hibs mostly won games in the second half.

[Andy74]

Right, loads of threads on why things are a complete mess. Here's why I think there is some light.

I'm struggling to think of a larger scale team re-build in the clubs history than what we are seeing now. The combination of the sub standard and the inconsistent, fairweather player, made up our team when CC took over. A team capable of the odd result, but with no long term viability. CC gave everyone a chance and made absolutely the right decisions in who was released and who was let go. He has brought in young players with good technique (Palson, Thornhill, Osborne, Airey) who can learn and wont be pushed over. He brought in width pace and passion for the club (Ivan), He brought in experienced campaigners (OHanlon, Agogo, Sodge) to work with potential like Hanlon, Booth and Stephens and he brought in the best striker in the SPL (GOC). So far so good.

He also brought in Martin Scott. Cheers for that Derek Adams.

The problem right now is down to a few things and its about deciding if we have the faith to see this thing through.

No right back. I have a feeling Towell wil be back before the window closes. Perhaps CC thought Hart would cover until we could sort something out and he gets injured again.

One up front - I kinda feel for the guy here. Whats the chances that Sodje, Agogo and Airey would all get injured over the first few weeks?? OConnor has done magnificently, but we cant be playing with one striker. If Airey goes, Griffiths signs up and Sodje and Agogo reach fitness, it would be a reasonable 2 from 4 every week.

The midfield - For me the biggest issue. If we dont sign someone with a bit of creativiy and guile we we be dispairing all season. We have decent players but no where near enough dynamic or edge for this level. We need a boss in there. Where you get one in our range is the big question though and again I cant see past Mikey Stewart. Interesting he was training with us. I wonder if CC was eying a move? We really do need someone with experience and arrogance in there to compliment the Osbornes and Thornhills or it will be all sideways passes and wide open spaces. Any thoughts on who else would fit that bill? I think we may see DeGraffe out on loan again before the end of the month, his wage could be used.

Lastly CC himself. I am defending him in this post I know, and while I think he has a plan and could come through, I do worry about his inability to get a response from the team since he has came in. Will this come with trust and respect from what is now his own squad. I think he is worth a punt here. With a little time this squad (and the options it gives) would hold its own:

Stack

Booth, OHanlon, Stephens/Hanlon, Towell

Sproule, Osborne, Stewart/That type, Thornhill

OConnor, Griffiths
Subs from
Brown
Murray
Stevenson
Galbraith
Wotherspoon
Agogo
Sodje

Thoughts?

Nah, the very basis of your post is that the rehaul has actually brought us in better players or better equipped players. That must be based on a very small period in February overall.

Palsson and Scott are indeed being bullied and outplayed, Thornhill is anonymous.

Sodje and O'Connor have been successes though.

Sproule - not sure yet, O'Hanlon seems to have a history of injury and has been injured twice in the few weeks he has been here. Airey is away already by all accounts, Osbourne looks good so far but early days. No idea on Agogo, he's been injued twice too.

We've signed loads of players in recent years who have looked ideal on paper and had good pedigrees. Many have ended up being mistakes.

For me there is no evidence that this new Hibs team is any different to any other one and in many ways is worse, results are showing that and the availability of certain players does not bode well.

I don't really care if the players like CC, that's not helping on the pitch. The boss I've liked the best in my career so far was one who got little out of me but he was a good lad who didnt push me to do any work when I was a youngster.