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greenlex
20-08-2011, 07:03 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

Elephant Stone
20-08-2011, 07:08 PM
Individual errors cost us two goals but not the game. If we can't score more than one goal and can't get goals from anyone other than Garry O'Connor we are going to lose games. The team are creating next to no chances, the midfield is doing OK at closing down and making it difficult for opponents but are doing nothing to create for ourselves, there is no effective link between the midfield and the attack. Calderwood has been here near enough ten months and hasn't done anything to remedy this.

In time there's a chance that we will tighten up and concede less but I can't see any addition to our creativity and that's what I worry about.

Steve20
20-08-2011, 07:10 PM
The only thing we should give him time for is to pack his stuff and leave.

greenlex
20-08-2011, 07:11 PM
Individual errors cost us two goals but not the game. If we can't score more than one goal and can't get goals from anyone other than Gary O'Connor we are going to lose games. The team are creating next to no chances, the midfield is doing OK at closing down and making it difficult for opponents but are doing nothing to create for ourselves, there is no effective link between the midfield and the attack. Calderwood has been here near enough ten months and hasn't done anything to remedy this.

In time there's a chance that we will tighten up and concede less but I can't see any addition to our creativity and that's what I worry about.

With Agogo in for Murray/wotherspoon and a fit Ozzy there will be plenty created. I think Thornhill will come good but do think he has been poor the last two games.

Andy74
20-08-2011, 07:11 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

Today is just the latest.

No home wins since March. Mainly against the bottom six to boot. Lost last four home games. Again other than Celtic, bottom six teams.

We had an unprecedented opportunity to transform the playing staff this year. Nothing has changed, and worse, we are being passed off the park and our only plan is to hope Garry O can produce something.

It's not an over reaction, he has actually been given more leeway than anyone I can recall.

sundo1875
20-08-2011, 07:14 PM
His team needs time to gell. Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors. Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him. Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.Discuss.:tin hat:He needs time he has nearly a year and NOTHING has changed

khib70
20-08-2011, 07:14 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:
:top marksWell said. At last an analysis of the game that bears some relation to the one I saw. The way people are behaving on here is just more kneejerk wrist-slashing. Some people are never happier than when we lose. Except when there's a lynch mob on the go looking for the manager.

He himself has said that the transition period would be painful, and it definitely is. But sacking CC and bringing in another manager, who will then be rounded on by the same people if he hasn't met their expectations within three months, is just going to lead to a recurring cycle of failure.

hibee1994
20-08-2011, 07:14 PM
Hasn't signed players we need, i.e a RB, a LM and maybe another CB

Doesn't pick the right formation

Tactically unaware

Hasn't improved results


I was one of the first to defend him but im sorry, Yogi had a better era than this and still got sacked. Either a tactical Assistant manager or a :taxi needed.

Hibiza
20-08-2011, 07:14 PM
he's had time . same old diatribe , non insperational, non tactical alert , get him out p.s dosent really want to be .

Hibercelona
20-08-2011, 07:15 PM
A defensive error?

All goals scored in a football game are defensive errors. But with Hibs, its taking a fair chunck of the cake. When we say "errors"... we really do mean "errors". Teams don't need to score good goals against us, they simply have to loft the ball into the box a couple of times during a 90 minute period and they get their 3 points.

If we can't beat teams 90% of the time with players on a fraction of our players wages, a fraction of our fanbase and a fraction of our assets, then something smells a bit off dont you think?

We shouldn't be scoring the odd goal or 2 in a home game against the likes of St Mirren, we should be destroying teams like that at home!

Badge
20-08-2011, 07:15 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

Sorry but he's had too much time as far as I'm concerned.

We are a very poor team at the moment. There is no shape to the team, players are being played out of position, there is no plan b when things start to go wrong and there is no confidence in the players.

Some of the players don't look as if they know what they are being asked to do and the crowds are dropping because people aren't prepared to pay to watch the drivel that has been on offer for some considerable time.


What are you basing your thoughts on when you say give him more time?

Stevie Reid
20-08-2011, 07:16 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

He had a meaningful save after we scored, down to his left (when he should have done better), which was one more than Samson had at the other end IIRC.

Elephant Stone
20-08-2011, 07:17 PM
With Agogo in for Murray/wotherspoon and a fit Ozzy there will be plenty created. I think Thornhill will come good but do think he has been poor the last two games.

Agogo is a striker, he won't be creating chances, he will be needing service from our midfield and will no doubt be as deprived of it as O'Connor is. Osbourne looks like he's got something but I don't think he alone can create enough chances in the current set up for us to be a success. There needs to be major change in the way we play. As for Thornhill, I've seen nothing which gives hope for any creativity thus far, he looks lively enough but doesn't do enough in possession.

greenlex
20-08-2011, 07:17 PM
A defensive error?

All goals scored in a football game are defensive errors. But with Hibs, its taking a fair chunck of the cake. When we say "errors"... we really do mean "errors". Teams don't need to score good goals against us, they simply have to loft the ball into the box a couple of times during a 90 minute period and they get their 3 points.

If we can't beat teams 90% of the time with players on a fraction of our players wages, a fraction of our fanbase and a fraction of our assets, then something smells a bit off dont you think?
Should have written individual defensive errors for todays two goals. Neither of which were "lofted into the box".

Andy74
20-08-2011, 07:18 PM
Sorry but he's had too much time as far as I'm concerned.

We are a very poor team at the moment. There is no shape to the team, players are being played out of position, there is no plan b when things start to go wrong and there is no confidence in the players.

Some of the players don't look as if they know what they are being asked to do and the crowds are dropping because people aren't prepared to pay to watch the drivel that has been on offer for some considerable time.


What are you basing your thoughts on when you say give him more time?

I see you mention a plan b. What is plan a?

Hibiza
20-08-2011, 07:20 PM
See whenever he talks , it's like somebody wanting to get out of a party. Imagine him being your first foot at the new year aaaarrrrrghhhh.

greenlex
20-08-2011, 07:22 PM
Sorry but he's had too much time as far as I'm concerned.

We are a very poor team at the moment. There is no shape to the team, players are being played out of position, there is no plan b when things start to go wrong and there is no confidence in the players.

Some of the players don't look as if they know what they are being asked to do and the crowds are dropping because people aren't prepared to pay to watch the drivel that has been on offer for some considerable time.


What are you basing your thoughts on when you say give him more time?

Four games into the season with his team still to feature his bigger signings together. That will be the test. Celtic at home. Inverness away Killie away. Three games we rarely take anything from. Three points and unlucky IMO to take nothing today. Unless we are cut adrift at the foot of the table at the next window he should be judged on the season as a whole.

Hibercelona
20-08-2011, 07:22 PM
Should have written individual defensive errors for todays two goals. Neither of which were "lofted into the box".

I don't know how the 2 goals were scored today and I don't care. All I know is that we conceeded more goals than we scored at home to a team that shouldn't be a patch on us in terms of quality and results.

I personally don't believe that we as fans are putting enough pressure on the board to produce better. But i'm sure the "dont mess with the board" brigade will be very quickly on here to put me back in my place.

Largshibby
20-08-2011, 07:23 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

I admire your sense of optimism but the reaction elsewhere is the cumulative effect of 18 months of utter dross rather than picking out the plus points of individual games. What annoys me most is that Hibs have 3 or 4 times the resources of teams like St.M, Inverness, St Johnsone yet we can't enjoy periods of sustained success against them irrespective of the shortcomings in the team. I know alot of people don't think the relative size of one club compared to another makes any difference but for me it does.

SneakersO'Toole
20-08-2011, 07:25 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

I agree to an extent but his time is running out FAST. As I said on another thread, lets see where we are once we have played 11 games against all opposition.

His team needs time to gel is a cop-out. Look our opponents today. Completely different team who have had exactly the same time as the us to put a team together. Youngsters will make mistakes but we are not learning from our mistakes. Time and time again we make the wrong decisions.

You are right that Stack barely had a save to make today, but neither did the St. Mirren goalie. We are so toothless in attack its beyond belief. No creativity, no guile and absolutely no one in the team who can make a telling pass. Worrying.

The opinions on the other threads is not an over-reaction, it is patience worn thinner than Pat Nevin's hairline. The time for talking or excuses is over. This team that has been assembled by CC needs to start demonstrating that it can compete in this league and quickly.

R'Albin
20-08-2011, 07:28 PM
His team needs time to gell.


:agree: Definately..

Dirkster23
20-08-2011, 07:29 PM
With Agogo in for Murray/wotherspoon and a fit Ozzy there will be plenty created. I think Thornhill will come good but do think he has been poor the last two games.

Two home games and one shot on target? I wish i could share your confidence that it's all going to come good :rolleyes:

crash
20-08-2011, 07:34 PM
His team needs time to gell. -Kilmarnock last week and St. Mirren today have both undergone as many personnel changes than us, don't see them complaining.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.-Young players will always make mistakes, so to send out a complete back four with no experience is suicidal
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.- At last the penny is beginning to drop that we are totally unprepared for next weeks game
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.- Neither did the St.Mirren goalie
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock and we got control again after Scott replaced him. Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.I don't see anything embarrassing about people wanting to be able to go along to Easter Road on a Saturday and see a decent performance.
Discuss.:tin hat:
As above.

AlbertK86
20-08-2011, 07:37 PM
totally agree he needs time but what is frustrating that we have not addressed the massive problems in defence. It has been clear for months that we needed a right back and two centre halves. Possibly even a left back as i think young booth is superb going forward but poor defensively. Wouldn't dream of dropping him but would much rather see him on the left of midfield.

All that has been done is buy one central defender. We are weak there just now so dread to think where we will be once injuries and suspensions kick in. Let's hope we get some experiencee defenders in before the window slams shut

Stevie Reid
20-08-2011, 07:38 PM
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.

Duffy
P 46 W 8 D 15 L 23

Calderwood
P 36 W 9 D 6 L 21

Over reaction?

Myself and many other fair minded Hibbies would gladly give him more time if there were ANY signs of improvement, but there are none whatsoever. Less than 9K at ER today and a ST holder like myself will be struggling to drag myself back again, so God knows how we can get any walk ups to keep going, or indeed, ever return.

staunchhibby
20-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Give him more time and we are heading into the first division

greenlex
20-08-2011, 07:41 PM
totally agree he needs time but what is frustrating that we have not addressed the massive problems in defence. It has been clear for months that we needed a right back and two centre halves. Possibly even a left back as i think young booth is superb going forward but poor defensively. Wouldn't dream of dropping him but would much rather see him on the left of midfield.

All that has been done is buy one central defender. We are weak there just now so dread to think where we will be once injuries and suspensions kick in. Let's hope we get some experiencee defenders in before the window slams shut

I see where you are coming from and a right back is essential.It does however need to be the right one. We dont want another Hart. I prefer to wait till the right one is available and willing to come. Another experienced centre back would be nice and a creative midfielder too. All in time I reckon.

greenlex
20-08-2011, 07:42 PM
Duffy
P 46 W 8 D 15 L 23

Calderwood
P 36 W 9 D 6 L 21

Over reaction?

Myself and many other fair minded Hibbies would gladly give him more time if there were ANY signs of improvement, but there are none whatsoever. Less than 9K at ER today and a ST holder like myself will be struggling to drag myself back again, so God knows how we can get any walk ups to keep going, or indeed, ever return.
Forget last season. Its all about this season and going forward into the seasons ahead.

AlbertK86
20-08-2011, 07:48 PM
I see where you are coming from and a right back is essential.It does however need to be the right one. We dont want another Hart. I prefer to wait till the right one is available and willing to come. Another experienced centre back would be nice and a creative midfielder too. All in time I reckon. For sure i would not just want a panic buy and end up with another Hart ! Must be decent experienced defenders out there. Maybe just waiting on them decoming available. Lets hope so.

R'Albin
20-08-2011, 07:49 PM
For sure i would not just want a panic buy and end up with another Hart ! Must be decent experienced defenders out there. Maybe just waiting on them decoming available. Lets hope so.

The thing ia Hart wasn't even a panic buy !

Gatecrasher
20-08-2011, 07:49 PM
1 thing i would say about him, listening to his hibs tv interview on youtube. He seems to know where it went wrong, i found myself agreeing with him. Thats something i never done with the previous manager in charge. Its up to him to fix it though and playing the likes of Palsson at RB is never going to be the solution.

MrSmith
20-08-2011, 07:49 PM
Four games into the season with his team still to feature his bigger signings together. That will be the test. Celtic at home. Inverness away Killie away. Three games we rarely take anything from. Three points and unlucky IMO to take nothing today. Unless we are cut adrift at the foot of the table at the next window he should be judged on the season as a whole.

Its four games past the horror five at the end of last season and still no sign of improvement! How much longer until we see some kind of recovery? Its not going to happen and if it does, maybe we will be comfortable in division one by that time.

proud_and_green
20-08-2011, 07:51 PM
Took my girlfriend to the game today. This was the first time she has ever been to a football match, she doesn't really like the game and doesn't know the game. However, she interestingly poined out that Hibs didn't really have any tactics which they appeared to be foollowing!

sahib
20-08-2011, 07:51 PM
I see where you are coming from and a right back is essential.It does however need to be the right one. We dont want another Hart. I prefer to wait till the right one is available and willing to come. Another experienced centre back would be nice and a creative midfielder too. All in time I reckon.

The only thing in Calderwood's favour is the way he manages to carry himself in times of adversity, which has been most of his tenure. He rarely looks rattled and I think he is quite tough mentally. All these qualities would be great if he had a clue about how to get us playing football. He may get there but many people will have lost interest, if things don't turn a corner soon.

AlbertK86
20-08-2011, 07:53 PM
The thing ia Hart wasn't even a panic buy ! I know he wasn't but he certainly causes panic when he plays

greenlex
20-08-2011, 07:54 PM
Its four games past the horror five at the end of last season and still no sign of improvement! How much longer until we see some kind of recovery? Its not going to happen and if it does, maybe we will be comfortable in division one by that time.
Whats improvement in your book? Sure results are similar but do you think the players in the squad have improved or are they just the same as the ineffective Rankins and Millers of our squad last year? Time is required to get them playing together.
Said before Calderwood should be judged on the whole season unless we are adrift at the bottom at the next window not with last seasons weak finish or the first four games

MrSmith
20-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Improvement in my book is being able to pass a ball, keep possession, defend and attack correctly while looking like they are up for a game! A wee bit of passion and leadership would help! Failing this... I would accept a cheaper pie!

sesoim
20-08-2011, 07:58 PM
We shouldn't have appointed CC in the first place. He is totally the wrong guy for this club. Sitting around with the wrong guy in charge will only get us relegated. He has had a year to sort that defence and if anything it is getting worse. We needed another experienced CB but he didn't think we needed one. That says it all about his mentality.

He has signed a bunch of midfielders who get outplayed by a bunch of £500 a week battlers. If it wasn't for O'Connor needing a club to get his career going again, we would be bottom now.

Petrie, let this imposter leave now. And do the decent thing afterwards and resign yourself. Whatever money we have made through player sales we are now chucking away through your awful managers.

hibee1994
20-08-2011, 07:59 PM
Whats improvement in your book? Sure results are similar but do you think the players in the squad have improved or are they just the same as the ineffective Rankins and Millers of our squad last year? Time is required to get them playing together.
Said before Calderwood should be judged on the whole season unless we are adrift at the bottom at the next window not with last seasons weak finish or the first four games

Football is a results game. Sure it might turn out well but if it means we are plying our trade in the third division before returning to the SPL, im out. Have you walked out of a Hibs game thinking "wow that was a great game" recently? I haven't. Bought my first season ticket last season, re-newed this year out of my own pocket. I want my product, and im not getting it with Calderwood.

AlbertK86
20-08-2011, 08:00 PM
Whats improvement in your book? Sure results are similar but do you think the players in the squad have improved or are they just the same as the ineffective Rankins and Millers of our squad last year? Time is required to get them playing together. Said before Calderwood should be judged on the whole season unless we are adrift at the bottom at the next window not with last seasons weak finish or the first four games Spot on greenlex. Let's stay with him and the team GGTTH

ronaldo7
20-08-2011, 08:05 PM
I agree to an extent but his time is running out FAST. As I said on another thread, lets see where we are once we have played 11 games against all opposition.

His team needs time to gel is a cop-out. Look our opponents today. Completely different team who have had exactly the same time as the us to put a team together. Youngsters will make mistakes but we are not learning from our mistakes. Time and time again we make the wrong decisions.

You are right that Stack barely had a save to make today, but neither did the St. Mirren goalie. We are so toothless in attack its beyond belief. No creativity, no guile and absolutely no one in the team who can make a telling pass. Worrying. The opinions on the other threads is not an over-reaction, it is patience worn thinner than Pat Nevin's hairline. The time for talking or excuses is over. This team that has been assembled by CC needs to start demonstrating that it can compete in this league and quickly.

Nail on the heid.

We're not making anything happen in a game. Spoony and Victor played in the wrong positions for me.

We need a break and BIG TIME.

sesoim
20-08-2011, 08:10 PM
The only thing in Calderwood's favour is the way he manages to carry himself in times of adversity, which has been most of his tenure. He rarely looks rattled and I think he is quite tough mentally. All these qualities would be great if he had a clue about how to get us playing football. He may get there but many people will have lost interest, if things don't turn a corner soon.



Or, he just couldn't give a toss.

AlbertK86
20-08-2011, 08:10 PM
god knows where i'm getting the optimism from but i have a wee sneaky feeling that we might just turn the form book inside out and turn the jams over next week. These games rarely go to form so here's hoping

wah
20-08-2011, 08:10 PM
The only thing in Calderwood's favour is the way he manages to carry himself in times of adversity, which has been most of his tenure. He rarely looks rattled and I think he is quite tough mentally. All these qualities would be great if he had a clue about how to get us playing football. He may get there but many people will have lost interest, if things don't turn a corner soon.

I would conclude the lights on but theres nobody in.

Ryan69
20-08-2011, 08:16 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

Overreaction? When was the last time we dominated a game?
conceding 6 goals in last 2 games against teams that will end up no better than maybe 8th.
How much time does he need,when he clearly doesnt want tobe there?

Are you CC in disguise?

sesoim
20-08-2011, 08:19 PM
:top marksWell said. At last an analysis of the game that bears some relation to the one I saw. The way people are behaving on here is just more kneejerk wrist-slashing. Some people are never happier than when we lose. Except when there's a lynch mob on the go looking for the manager.

He himself has said that the transition period would be painful, and it definitely is. But sacking CC and bringing in another manager, who will then be rounded on by the same people if he hasn't met their expectations within three months, is just going to lead to a recurring cycle of failure.



The only reason there is a recurring cycle of failure is because Rod Petrie is bloody awful at appointing managers. CC's comment about a painful transition is only designed to buy himself more time. The SPL is such a low standard, that any decent manager could come in and put together a competitive team pretty quickly with the money Hibs have compared to 8 of the other 11 sides. But here we are, almost a year later, 9 wins out of 36.

For the good of Hibs, we need rid of CC and Petries ASAP.

Badge
20-08-2011, 08:27 PM
I see you mention a plan b. What is plan a?

You're right, apologies

Kaiser1962
20-08-2011, 08:27 PM
Four games into the season with his team still to feature his bigger signings together. That will be the test. Celtic at home. Inverness away Killie away. Three games we rarely take anything from. Three points and unlucky IMO to take nothing today. Unless we are cut adrift at the foot of the table at the next window he should be judged on the season as a whole.

Totally agree. It might be ultimately be wrong but I believe we should stick this out as you say.

Tricla
20-08-2011, 08:35 PM
he's had time . Same old diatribe , non insperational, non tactical alert , get him out p.s dosent really want to be .


see whenever he talks , it's like somebody wanting to get out of a party. Imagine him being your first foot at the new year aaaarrrrrghhhh.

wtf?

trev the hat
20-08-2011, 08:43 PM
Petrie should be biting the hand off Birmingham ASAP, CC is NEVER a manager clearly unable to act on a horrendous heavy defeat to killie. He plays the same back four. His 1st sub today indicated he knew his mistake (Palsson for Galbraith with Spoony moving to FB) Playing one up front at home to St Midden is appalling. Huge gaps in midfield as Sproule & Spoony not covering. A solid 4-4-2 would have sufficed. Palsson should be pairing Thornhill(or Scott) in midfield with Osbourne given time from bench. Why give Galbraith a 1 year deal & not play him ? We had 1 attempt on target today 1 !!
The reported £300k for CC would pay an established coach 2-3 years salary. Attendancies are dwindling rapidly & we cant afford to have a similar season to last year.
As much as i love my club, i also ain,t no fool & this is aimed at the board, I won,t be back to watch my team while the present incumbent board continually appoints managers in the blind hope that virgin managers will be lucky enough to achieve success, when almost every fan knows we are crying out for a non former player experienced coach to give us the consistancy we crave.

Rant over & :taxi for CC Please :pray: closely followed by the unable to appoint & keep coaches, present incumbent board.:taxi:taxi:taxi:taxi:taxi

wah
20-08-2011, 08:47 PM
Petrie should be biting the hand off Birmingham ASAP, CC is NEVER a manager clearly unable to act on a horrendous heavy defeat to killie. He plays the same back four. His 1st sub today indicated he knew his mistake (Palsson for Galbraith with Spoony moving to FB) Playing one up front at home to St Midden is appalling. Huge gaps in midfield as Sproule & Spoony not covering. A solid 4-4-2 would have sufficed. Palsson should be pairing Thornhill(or Scott) in midfield with Osbourne given time from bench. Why give Galbraith a 1 year deal & not play him ? We had 1 attempt on target today 1 !!
The reported £300k for CC would pay an established coach 2-3 years salary. Attendancies are dwindling rapidly & we cant afford to have a similar season to last year.
As much as i love my club, i also ain,t no fool & this is aimed at the board, I won,t be back to watch my team while the present incumbent board continually appoints managers in the blind hope that virgin managers will be lucky enough to achieve success, when almost every fan knows we are crying out for a non former player experienced coach to give us the consistancy we crave.

Rant over & :taxi for CC Please :pray: closely followed by the unable to appoint & keep coaches, present incumbent board.:taxi:taxi:taxi:taxi:taxi

this

Dirkster23
20-08-2011, 08:49 PM
Petrie should be biting the hand off Birmingham ASAP, CC is NEVER a manager clearly unable to act on a horrendous heavy defeat to killie. He plays the same back four. His 1st sub today indicated he knew his mistake (Palsson for Galbraith with Spoony moving to FB) Playing one up front at home to St Midden is appalling. Huge gaps in midfield as Sproule & Spoony not covering. A solid 4-4-2 would have sufficed. Palsson should be pairing Thornhill(or Scott) in midfield with Osbourne given time from bench. Why give Galbraith a 1 year deal & not play him ? We had 1 attempt on target today 1 !!
The reported £300k for CC would pay an established coach 2-3 years salary. Attendancies are dwindling rapidly & we cant afford to have a similar season to last year.
As much as i love my club, i also ain,t no fool & this is aimed at the board, I won,t be back to watch my team while the present incumbent board continually appoints managers in the blind hope that virgin managers will be lucky enough to achieve success, when almost every fan knows we are crying out for a non former player experienced coach to give us the consistancy we crave.

Rant over & :taxi for CC Please :pray: closely followed by the unable to appoint & keep coaches, present incumbent board.:taxi:taxi:taxi:taxi:taxi

CC never played for Hibs and has been manager at Forest, Northampton and assistant manager at Newcastle :rolleyes: seems to be your ideal manager.

wah
20-08-2011, 08:52 PM
CC never played for Hibs and has been manager at Forest, Northampton and assistant manager at Newcastle :rolleyes: seems to be your ideal manager.
Assistant at Newcastle would be no more than an coching role.

Feed McGraw
20-08-2011, 08:52 PM
Was on his side until today, but playing the same back four as last week and one up front at home - especially against St. Mirren, nah, that`s just not the Hibs I know and love.

greenlex
20-08-2011, 08:53 PM
The only reason there is a recurring cycle of failure is because Rod Petrie is bloody awful at appointing managers. CC's comment about a painful transition is only designed to buy himself more time. The SPL is such a low standard, that any decent manager could come in and put together a competitive team pretty quickly with the money Hibs have compared to 8 of the other 11 sides. But here we are, almost a year later, 9 wins out of 36.

For the good of Hibs, we need rid of CC and Petries ASAP.

Someone like Mowbray for example? He got more money at Celtic and didnt last there too long.
I am sure I read the life expectancy of a football manager is around 18 months. Do all the other chairmen/chief executives/boards get it as wrong as the Hibs board do?
I would argue for the sake of Hibs we need to give him time and see where we are. The alternative is to start all over again to go through the same cycle. Its far to early in his tenure to be getting rid of him He needs this season at the very least unless its a complete disaster come the next window. I dont think it will be. This manager has produced results at a higher level than the SPL. He has to be backed,and he has been, but most of all he has to be given time.

hibee1994
20-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Was on his side until today, but playing the same back four as last week and one up front at home - especially against St. Mirren, nah, that`s just not the Hibs I know and love.

That's just not the Hibs I know and just barely put up with!:greengrin

BEEJ
20-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Football is a results game. Sure it might turn out well but if it means we are plying our trade in the third division before returning to the SPL, im out. Have you walked out of a Hibs game thinking "wow that was a great game" recently? I haven't. Bought my first season ticket last season, re-newed this year out of my own pocket. I want my product, and im not getting it with Calderwood.
:tee hee:

At least you'll stay with us through the first and second divisions, then?

And you paid for your very own ticket?! Wow! :greengrin

hibee1994
20-08-2011, 08:58 PM
:tee hee:

At least you'll stay with us through the first and second divisions, then?

And you paid for your very own ticket?! Wow! :greengrin

Sorry should have mentioned im a teenager who doesn't work :greengrin

Would stick with the first division but the second's pushing it a little.

Kaiser1962
20-08-2011, 08:58 PM
Someone like Mowbray for example? He got more money at Celtic and didnt last there too long.
I am sure I read the life expectancy of a football manager is around 18 months. Do all the other chairmen/chief executives/boards get it as wrong as the Hibs board do?
I would argue for the sake of Hibs we need to give him time and see where we are. The alternative is to start all over again to go through the same cycle. Its far to early in his tenure to be getting rid of him He needs this season at the very least unless its a complete disaster come the next window. I dont think it will be. This manager has produced results at a higher level than the SPL. He has to be backed,and he has been, but most of all he has to be given time.

I think it's similar at most clubs. If a manager comes in and does well he moves on, if he does badly he gets the push. Thats the reality.

down the slope
20-08-2011, 08:59 PM
Someone like Mowbray for example? He got more money at Celtic and didnt last there too long.
I am sure I read the life expectancy of a football manager is around 18 months. Do all the other chairmen/chief executives/boards get it as wrong as the Hibs board do?
I would argue for the sake of Hibs we need to give him time and see where we are. The alternative is to start all over again to go through the same cycle. Its far to early in his tenure to be getting rid of him He needs this season at the very least unless its a complete disaster come the next window. I dont think it will be. This manager has produced results at a higher level than the SPL. He has to be backed,and he has been, but most of all he has to be given time.


Aye two years in saughton !.

wah
20-08-2011, 08:59 PM
Someone like Mowbray for example? He got more money at Celtic and didnt last there too long.
I am sure I read the life expectancy of a football manager is around 18 months. Do all the other chairmen/chief executives/boards get it as wrong as the Hibs board do?
I would argue for the sake of Hibs we need to give him time and see where we are. The alternative is to start all over again to go through the same cycle. Its far to early in his tenure to be getting rid of him He needs this season at the very least unless its a complete disaster come the next window. I dont think it will be. This manager has produced results at a higher level than the SPL. He has to be backed,and he has been, but most of all he has to be given time.

For the"sake of Hibs" we should recognise a mistake and take action. The alternative is dwindling crowds / income and a relegation fight or relegation. Its not too early he is not up to the job.

greenlex
20-08-2011, 09:03 PM
For the"sake of Hibs" we should recognise a mistake and take action. The alternative is dwindling crowds / income and a relegation fight or relegation. Its not too early he is not up to the job.
Then when you are calling for his replacment to be replaced after less than a year and maybe four games with his team we can do it all again right?

Newhaven
20-08-2011, 09:03 PM
Someone like Mowbray for example? He got more money at Celtic and didnt last there too long.
I am sure I read the life expectancy of a football manager is around 18 months. Do all the other chairmen/chief executives/boards get it as wrong as the Hibs board do?
I would argue for the sake of Hibs we need to give him time and see where we are. The alternative is to start all over again to go through the same cycle. Its far to early in his tenure to be getting rid of him He needs this season at the very least unless its a complete disaster come the next window. I dont think it will be. This manager has produced results at a higher level than the SPL. He has to be backed,and he has been, but most of all he has to be given time.

How long do we give him then? Until crowds are down at 6k and were well and truly at the bottom of a
poor SPL? He's not significantly improved any aspect of the team since his arrival.

Its not worked for him for a long time now and results at the end of last season gave us an indication of what this season is now bringing

Season sales are down and people are not buying into the hibs dream. We have a weak team and fans aren't engaging with Calderwood. Did you hear his press conference after, a shocker by even his standards

The sooner he is gone the better :bye:

greenlex
20-08-2011, 09:06 PM
How long do we give him then? Until crowds are down at 6k and were well and truly at the bottom of a
poor SPL? He's not significantly improved any aspect of the team since his arrival.

Its not worked for him for a long time now and results at the end of last season gave us an indication of what this season is now bringing

Season sales are down and people are not buying into the hibs dream. We have a weak team and fans aren't engaging with Calderwood. Did you hear his press conference after, a shocker by even his standards

The sooner he is gone the better :bye:

This season minimum unless we are cut adrift at the bottom as we cannot afford in any sense to be relegated.

trev the hat
20-08-2011, 09:06 PM
CC never played for Hibs and has been manager at Forest, Northampton and assistant manager at Newcastle :rolleyes: seems to be your ideal manager

He was hounded out of Forest, has absolutely no experience of domestic Scottish football (to which i was referring) & will end up costing us plenty to launch him when we,re in too deep.
His playing style and tactical management has seen us not win a home match for months, help wipe 3-400 off our attendancies, and has yet to taste derby victory. But hey what do i know :ostrich:

wah
20-08-2011, 09:09 PM
Then when you are calling for his replacment to be replaced after less than a year and maybe four games with his team we can do it all again right?

Don't get tetchy, when someones not up to the job they need to go . No time limit should apply they are well paid for what they are expected to do.

Kaiser1962
20-08-2011, 09:16 PM
This is becoming "January Revisited".

wah
20-08-2011, 09:18 PM
This is becoming "January Revisited".

And? Say something we would be interested to hear...

WarringtonHibee
20-08-2011, 09:18 PM
Time? It's a punch in the neck he needs, he's going to take us down.

I'm sick of Petrie hiring useless managers, he can **** off too.

Kaiser1962
20-08-2011, 09:22 PM
And? Say something we would be interested to hear...

I was told in January that we would be relegated, no doubt about it, no siree, relegation was done and dusted.

I am being told the same again. Hence "January Revisted"

blackpoolhibs
20-08-2011, 09:30 PM
Took my girlfriend to the game today. This was the first time she has ever been to a football match, she doesn't really like the game and doesn't know the game. However, she interestingly poined out that Hibs didn't really have any tactics which they appeared to be foollowing!

We did have a tactic, stack to booth, booth to Hanlon, Hanlon to Stephens then back to stack, then hoof towards oconner. Plan B was strangly missing.

Dirkster23
20-08-2011, 09:30 PM
CC never played for Hibs and has been manager at Forest, Northampton and assistant manager at Newcastle :rolleyes: seems to be your ideal manager

He was hounded out of Forest, has absolutely no experience of domestic Scottish football (to which i was referring) & will end up costing us plenty to launch him when we,re in too deep.
His playing style and tactical management has seen us not win a home match for months, help wipe 3-400 off our attendancies, and has yet to taste derby victory. But hey what do i know :ostrich:

Eh, you referred to virgin managers and our need to appoint an experienced coach. Your right tho, he did get hounded out of Forest, but that was after he got them promoted. He also won promotion with Northampton and Newcastle.

I'm far from happy with the way things are at ER, but i can't see the board removing CC in the next few weeks. Petrie's played hardball with Birmingham and Forest and won't want to pay CC off a few weeks after he could have got £300k for him.

wah
20-08-2011, 09:39 PM
Eh, you referred to virgin managers and our need to appoint an experienced coach. Your right tho, he did get hounded out of Forest, but that was after he got them promoted. He also won promotion with Northampton and Newcastle.

I'm far from happy with the way things are at ER, but i can't see the board removing CC in the next few weeks. Petrie's played hardball with Birmingham and Forest and won't want to pay CC off a few weeks after he could have got £300k for him.

Don't believe everything you see in the papers. If we had received £300k for half wit he would have gone. We will be going back to them cap in hand to try and salvage an already disastrous season.

pacorosssco
20-08-2011, 10:57 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

sorry man but time is up. you are not a bad lad for being loyal but enough is enough. hasn't showed, hasn't got. if he were a horse ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

marinello59
20-08-2011, 10:58 PM
sorry man but time is up. you are not a bad lad for being loyal but enough is enough. hasn't showed, hasn't got. if he were a horse ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

We'd lead him to water but couldn't force him to drink?

pacorosssco
20-08-2011, 11:20 PM
We'd lead him to water but couldn't force him to drink?

something like that but prefer your blind loyalty hoping hell come good costs you money hand over fist week after week

marinello59
20-08-2011, 11:21 PM
something like that but prefer your blind loyalty hoping hell come good costs you money hand over fist week after week

You've lost me.

Baader
20-08-2011, 11:39 PM
Calderwood is proving a disasterous appointment. Not taking money offered for him was ridiculous. We'll end up paying that out to him to walk away a failure...

matty_f
20-08-2011, 11:53 PM
I've been all for giving CC time, but I'm fast running out of reasons to do so. Today was dismal, last weekend worse.

His record at Hibs sure isn't getting any better, and he's got his players in now. He's not really got much grace left from the fans - there were a lot of people at the game today talking about wanting CC out. He needs to get points, performances, and progression in the cup asap or else Easter Road is going to be an even more depressing place to go.

YetholmHibee
21-08-2011, 12:09 AM
Time to off.

not good enough at all.

SteveHFC
21-08-2011, 12:13 AM
Hopefully CC is gone by christmas or sooner.

Beefster
21-08-2011, 05:56 AM
As I've said consistently, he should get until the end of this season. However, if things don't improve within a month or two, he won't get it. There are still too many of last season's charlatans in the squad. Why Galbraith and Stevenson were given new contracts, I'll never know, and why Hanlon, Murray and Wotherspoon are still starting games, given their recent performances, is beyond me.

The problem for Petrie and the Hibs Board is that, should Calderwood leave any time soon, the support are going to start looking very closely at their role in the last few years of abject underachievement.

sunshine1875
21-08-2011, 07:07 AM
As I've said consistently, he should get until the end of this season. However, if things don't improve within a month or two, he won't get it. There are still too many of last season's charlatans in the squad. Why Galbraith and Stevenson were given new contracts, I'll never know, and why Hanlon, Murray and Wotherspoon are still starting games, given their recent performances, is beyond me.

The problem for Petrie and the Hibs Board is that, should Calderwood leave any time soon, the support are going to start looking very closely at their role in the last few years of abject underachievement.

Over the last ten years, I have probably spent on average £1,000 each year for my sons and my season tickets, buying football tops, buying tickets for home games not covered by the season ticket, going to away games, the odd games attended by the other members of my family, shares and food & drink in the BTG.

Why? Pure and simple - for my love of the Hibs! We have had goods days, we have had bad days - but we always thought that with a tweak here and a tweak there that the good days will soon be here again.

Not now! There is something seriously wrong at Easter Road. Fourteen wins, nine draws and thirty four defeats in fifty seven games tells me all I need to know!

It will not be as easy for my older son to travel to games now. It would be easy for me to turn my attention to my other sporting love - golf!

Hibernian Football Club - you have five months to turn this around. Because if there is no improvement when details come out for next seasons payment plan, there will be three ST holders declining.

HFC 0-7
21-08-2011, 07:11 AM
The clock is certainly ticking for him. He has had almost 2 transfer windows to address key positions and it hasnt happened. He is not addressing problems on the pitch week to week, to pick the same back 4 as the killie match is unbelievable, if O'Hanlon is fit enough to be on the bench he is fit enough to play. If we are forced to play the same back 4 because of lack of options then that to is also CC fault as he should have fixed that in the transfer window. We are not playing well, we dont have the correct personel and the tactics are looking very suspect. Nothing gets changed quickly enough during a game to bring us back into it and after yesterdays reaction by the crowd it seems more and more fans have had enough.

People are jumping on the 2 errors as being the reason we got beat, maybe so, but the difference is what happens after a mistake is made. CC showed nothing of trying to get the balance right in the team to get us back into it. additionally palssons error, shocking as it was, didnt directly lead to the goal like Booths. The boy got the ball from Pallson but still had time to look up and pick a pass to 1 of the many St Mirren players that were steaming forward un marked. We have some young players in the team and this could effect them developing. Playing players out of position, having young talents like Booth playing week in week out having his confidence dashed when ideally he should be left out for a week or 2. IMO this is whats happened to Wotherspoon, looked a real good prospect but looks burnt out, out of ideas and now trying to force all of his play and now nothing looks natural to him. He needs time, maybe so, but can the club afford time? Can the club afford to have dwindling attendances, poor league positions? Why does Calderwood need time? Because of all the new players? If so we will be in exactly the same position next season, as the short terms signings and players that contracts are due to expire will probably leave and we will need to find replacements again.

spike220
21-08-2011, 08:53 AM
It took a long tome to build the new stand, it will take a long time to build this team, we will be safe this season. CC just needs a bit more time, there are no quick fixes and no easy options, just time.

GGTTH

hibiedude
21-08-2011, 08:58 AM
Took my girlfriend to the game today. This was the first time she has ever been to a football match, she doesn't really like the game and doesn't know the game. However, she interestingly poined out that Hibs didn't really have any tactics which they appeared to be foollowing!

I she still your girlfriend after todays farce :greengrin

Tell her tactics is what you buy in the shop :wink:

500miles
21-08-2011, 09:10 AM
There was no plan today. The players looked like they had never met before. As individuals you look at the players. Calderwood's signings all seem to have ability - Thornhill, Palsson and Osbourne are very capable players with a ball at thier feet. However, they need an extra half second on the ball to work out where the pass is. You look at Spurs against Hearts - they knew where the pass was before they even looked up - it was a quick glance to confirm, and the ball was released.
Wingers playing with thier backs to goal instead of looking over the shoulder when they should already be accelerating, because they don't know if they need to cut inside, or hit they byline.
A total lack of organisation is ruining what should be, going by the individual players, a decent team.

Calderwood needs to do some serious work on getting this team working together before the Hearts game, or he needs to pack a bag.

hibiedude
21-08-2011, 10:33 AM
The only time I would give Calderwood is the time it takes for the :taxi to arrive

NORTHERNHIBBY
21-08-2011, 10:48 AM
He will get this season at least. If, and it is a big if, we recruit an RB, mix that up with players carrying injuries and a general lack of match fitness and we are looking at the first quarter being written off as a " pre-season". We may peak in cups, and may benefit from patchy form by other teams, but a league placing in single figures would be an achievement.

Cropley10
21-08-2011, 11:38 AM
Four games into the season with his team still to feature his bigger signings together. That will be the test. Celtic at home. Inverness away Killie away. Three games we rarely take anything from. Three points and unlucky IMO to take nothing today. Unless we are cut adrift at the foot of the table at the next window he should be judged on the season as a whole.

"Unlucky to take nothing"? We didn't create a meaningful chance in the second half and their keeper could have played in his slippers.

There seems to be a uberfan situation regarding CC. If you think he's a dud and wont take us anywhere then your obviously not a fan but even worse you're a bed-wetter.

Apparently the only way to change it is to buy Tom Farmer out.

truehibernian
21-08-2011, 11:58 AM
"Unlucky to take nothing"? We didn't create a meaningful chance in the second half and their keeper could have played in his slippers.

There seems to be a uberfan situation regarding CC. If you think he's a dud and wont take us anywhere then your obviously not a fan but even worse you're a bed-wetter.

Apparently the only way to change it is to buy Tom Farmer out.

I always try to at least find a couple of positives out of any game cropley, and I am as disappointed as you are with yesterday and the current form. But to say we didn't carve out a meaningful chance second half is not true. Sproule shot into the side netting when he should have hit the target or forced a save, Spoony likewise. Jimmy Scott had a horrendous effort at the end which reached row z when it was easier to bury.

Definitely agree that CC deserves a lot of criticism of late, especially for his defensive selections (and the continual use of 4-5-1). We should always be creating plenty chances against any side at home IMHO........the failing of the side is experience, and crucially experience in the right areas. We don't have it yet. But we can't go on sacking managers, paying them off, and recruiting again under a new man. The money aint there.

hibiedude
21-08-2011, 12:01 PM
There is a strong smell of urine in this thread but I dont think its coming from the bed wetters :wink:

Kaiser1962
21-08-2011, 12:23 PM
"Unlucky to take nothing"? We didn't create a meaningful chance in the second half and their keeper could have played in his slippers.

There seems to be a uberfan situation regarding CC. If you think he's a dud and wont take us anywhere then your obviously not a fan but even worse you're a bed-wetter.

Apparently the only way to change it is to buy Tom Farmer out.



Well if he dosent like the changes they're not happening. Catch 22.

Nothing to do with uberfans or anything else.

Cropley10
21-08-2011, 12:40 PM
I always try to at least find a couple of positives out of any game cropley, and I am as disappointed as you are with yesterday and the current form. But to say we didn't carve out a meaningful chance second half is not true. Sproule shot into the side netting when he should have hit the target or forced a save, Spoony likewise. Jimmy Scott had a horrendous effort at the end which reached row z when it was easier to bury.

Definitely agree that CC deserves a lot of criticism of late, especially for his defensive selections (and the continual use of 4-5-1). We should always be creating plenty chances against any side at home IMHO........the failing of the side is experience, and crucially experience in the right areas. We don't have it yet. But we can't go on sacking managers, paying them off, and recruiting again under a new man. The money aint there.

Maybe I should have said 'a shot on goal' rather than meaningful chance

SneakersO'Toole
21-08-2011, 01:29 PM
The problem for Petrie and the Hibs Board is that, should Calderwood leave any time soon, the support are going to start looking very closely at their role in the last few years of abject underachievement.

They will but ultimately nothing will happen. Farmer will stay in the background while Petrie has free reigns to appoint another manager and thus the cycle starts again with most likely another disappointing yet predictable outcome.

Should CC leave, then the club needs a serious shot to the arm. Root and branch review followed by wholesale changes from top to bottom to get it moving forward again.

Jonnyboy's signiture on this forum explains Einstein's theory on insanity. This is EXACTLY what would be doing if such procedures were not implemented if CC doesn't work out and leaves.

Aldo
21-08-2011, 01:55 PM
I have a question....how much time....cos at the moment the only place we are going is into a relegation battle on the performances of late.
We have nowt...... 4-5-1 at home and yes I am aware we have injuries but for me if you are fit enough for the bench then you are fit enough to play ENDOF.

We have not won many games since CC took over...not sure how many but not many more than double figures. Lets face it when will it be enough........ Jim Duffy era II here we come.......

There is something happening at the club for us to be playing the way were are and lets face it the buck stops with the manager....there are other underlying issues...board etc but they are backing their man at the moment who is not producing the goods...morale is at an all time low (IMHO) and something needs a changing.

If we dont sign a RB and possibly a creative MF then we can say cheerio to the top 6 (not expecting that anyway this season, hard slog and fight to avoid relegation)

Had enough of trying to be positive and yes we all know if we get a victory next week then he will become a saviour and a great manager but for me only papering over the cracks.

Long long long season to follow.

225-EasterRd
21-08-2011, 03:10 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

You might be right, i have supported cc up until yesterday. What i cant understand is:

1/ It would be bad enough to play against st mirren away with one up front, but to do that at home???? i will never accept that.:tsk tsk:
2/ Why play with the same young defence that was ripped to shreds against killie?:confused: (if your fit enough to be on the bench your fit enough to play)
3/ Why not bring on another striker at half time, when it was obvious we needed to change it?????:grr:
4/ why is there no communication in the team???:rolleyes:
5/ why do we look so unfit????:furious:
6/ why when we are chasing the game, bring on a huddy that has no creativity???:panic:
7/ I didnt buy my season ticket to watch this *****, we dont look like a team working for each other.
8/ So far i dont see any man management from cc to try to unite the team!!
9/ All i can see is a half hearted manager in charge of a half hearted team... We need a passionate manager that wants to be at the club for the longterm....
10/ If cc doesnt work out should petrie go, he has done a great job off the pitch but been a failure with managers selected?

Ok rant over, glory glory to the :hibees

Dirkster23
21-08-2011, 03:23 PM
As I've said consistently, he should get until the end of this season. However, if things don't improve within a month or two, he won't get it. There are still too many of last season's charlatans in the squad. Why Galbraith and Stevenson were given new contracts, I'll never know, and why Hanlon, Murray and Wotherspoon are still starting games, given their recent performances, is beyond me.

The problem for Petrie and the Hibs Board is that, should Calderwood leave any time soon, the support are going to start looking very closely at their role in the last few years of abject underachievement.

That's the problem though Beefster, it was CC's decision to give Stevenson and Galbraith new deals. It was also his decision not to bring in another CH meaning Hanlon or Stephens will play regardless of form. He also hasn't addressed the RB problem meaning we're trying to scrape through playing a 19 year old central midfielder in that position and Murray in midfield.

RickyS
21-08-2011, 03:26 PM
I don't like us changing managers every year, and there is a case for giving managers time. but after 10 months we should be seeing signs
of progress and improvement and expect a minimum level of performance.
neither of which we are seeing, so for me we should cut our losses and sack him now!

Jim44
21-08-2011, 04:52 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

Not nearly as embarrassing as the consistently bad performances from a team that is heading for oblivion or the drivel that Calderwood inarticulately spouts after every defeat. If the Killie result was " a terrific lesson" what gems did we learn from yesterday's fiasco? If we don't beat Berwick next week Calderwood will probably be away by morning time and personally I'd prefer our chances against the Jambos rudderless rather than with a severely handicapped rudder.

greenlex
21-08-2011, 08:49 PM
Not nearly as embarrassing as the consistently bad performances from a team that is heading for oblivion or the drivel that Calderwood inarticulately spouts after every defeat. If the Killie result was " a terrific lesson" what gems did we learn from yesterday's fiasco? If we don't beat Berwick next week Calderwood will probably be away by morning time and personally I'd prefer our chances against the Jambos rudderless rather than with a severely handicapped rudder.

We are heading for Oblivion? ave a word Jim. Yesterday a Fiasco? So Calderwood is uncomfortable in front of the Camera big deal. There are enough players and people in Football that reckon he knows what he is doing. I do not think we will get beat on Tuesday so the rest of your post sums up exactly the reaction I am on about.

greenlex
21-08-2011, 08:59 PM
You might be right, i have supported cc up until yesterday. What i cant understand is:

1/ It would be bad enough to play against st mirren away with one up front, but to do that at home???? i will never accept that.:tsk tsk: No other fit Strikers available. Thornhill was playing a forward role behind O' Connor (albeit not very well)
2/ Why play with the same young defence that was ripped to shreds against killie?:confused: (if your fit enough to be on the bench your fit enough to play) Fair point but he obviously thought it better to start with the same Central defensive partnership as O'Hanlon didnt have 90 mins in him. Please note neither goal was a Centre back mistake.
3/ Why not bring on another striker at half time, when it was obvious we needed to change it?????:grr: Again only Sodje was available and not fully fit
4/ why is there no communication in the team???:rolleyes: Isnt there?
5/ why do we look so unfit????:furious: I dunno. Are we unfit or is it just the players without a full preseason?
6/ why when we are chasing the game, bring on a huddy that has no creativity???:panic: If you are referring to Scott I thought he played well and steadied the midfeild that was being over run mostly due to Ozzy not being at the races after an hour and a couple of headknocks
7/ I didnt buy my season ticket to watch this *****, we dont look like a team working for each other.
8/ So far i dont see any man management from cc to try to unite the team!!
9/ All i can see is a half hearted manager in charge of a half hearted team... We need a passionate manager that wants to be at the club for the longterm....
10/ If cc doesnt work out should petrie go, he has done a great job off the pitch but been a failure with managers selected? That is clearly up to Petrie or Farmer

Ok rant over, glory glory to the :hibees
I have answered your questions as best I can in my opinion 325

Jonnyboy
21-08-2011, 09:03 PM
I've been all for giving CC time, but I'm fast running out of reasons to do so. Today was dismal, last weekend worse.

His record at Hibs sure isn't getting any better, and he's got his players in now. He's not really got much grace left from the fans - there were a lot of people at the game today talking about wanting CC out. He needs to get points, performances, and progression in the cup asap or else Easter Road is going to be an even more depressing place to go.

They've been saying that for weeks Matty it's just that some folk didn't want to hear it.

Hibs under CC are worse than Hibs under Yogi and that should just about sum it up perfectly IMO :agree:

greenlex
21-08-2011, 09:04 PM
They will but ultimately nothing will happen. Farmer will stay in the background while Petrie has free reigns to appoint another manager and thus the cycle starts again with most likely another disappointing yet predictable outcome.

Should CC leave, then the club needs a serious shot to the arm. Root and branch review followed by wholesale changes from top to bottom to get it moving forward again.

Jonnyboy's signiture on this forum explains Einstein's theory on insanity. This is EXACTLY what would be doing if such procedures were not implemented if CC doesn't work out and leaves.
Disagree Sneakers. Calderwood comes not only with experience but a proven track record. Not one of his immediate predecessors since Williamson did so His appointment is clearly a change in thought of who we should have as manager. The fact the board fought to keep him in the summer bears this out.
To get rid of him a handful of games in would actually be insane. As the thread title says. He needs time.

Jonnyboy
21-08-2011, 09:06 PM
Disagree Sneakers. Calderwood comes not only with experience but a proven track record. Not one of his immediate predecessors since Williamson did so His appointment is clearly a change in thought of who we should have as manager. The fact the board fought to keep him in the summer bears this out.
To get rid of him a handful of games in would actually be insane. As the thread title says. He needs time.

Cannae decide whether you are serious or on the wind up A. How much time do we give him? Until we are detached at the bottom of the SPL? Until he actually manages the side to a home win?

See my sig for what my opinion is on his efforts

greenlex
21-08-2011, 09:11 PM
Cannae decide whether you are serious or on the wind up A. How much time do we give him? Until we are detached at the bottom of the SPL? Until he actually manages the side to a home win?

See my sig for what my opinion is on his efforts
Said numerous times JC. he should be given until the end of the season and evaluated then unless we are cut adrift at the bottom come the next window. Yes I am serious.

Jonnyboy
21-08-2011, 09:13 PM
Said numerous times JC. he should be given until the end of the season and evaluated then unless we are cut adrift at the bottom come the next window.

We're currently 11th and would be 12th but for a late goal at Inverness.

I can't see where this will improve as long as he keeps making fundamental mistakes in his team selection

Hope I'm wrong but I fear for us I really do. I've lived through two relegations and don't want a third :agree:

Pedantic_Hibee
21-08-2011, 09:16 PM
Said numerous times JC. he should be given until the end of the season and evaluated then unless we are cut adrift at the bottom come the next window. Yes I am serious.

I agree.

And whilst others may disagree, I think the board think along the same lines as I do (albeit there's an element of saving face in them retaining him I feel). We need to back him, and the players as well.

greenlex
21-08-2011, 09:17 PM
We're currently 11th and would be 12th but for a late goal at Inverness.

I can't see where this will improve as long as he keeps making fundamental mistakes in his team selection

Hope I'm wrong but I fear for us I really do. I've lived through two relegations and don't want a third :agree:
I cannae be ersed looking because right now it doesnt really matter where we are 4 games in but where would we be if the two individual errors didnt happen yesterday? FWIW I dont want to go through a another relegation either. It would be disasterous for us.

Jim44
21-08-2011, 09:20 PM
We are heading for Oblivion? ave a word Jim. Yesterday a Fiasco? So Calderwood is uncomfortable in front of the Camera big deal. There are enough players and people in Football that reckon he knows what he is doing. I do not think we will get beat on Tuesday so the rest of your post sums up exactly the reaction I am on about.

So to consider or suggest that the present team with the horror show of results including fairly recent dire cup-ties against woeful teams has a realistic chance of being beaten by Berwick is an overreaction in your opinion? OK, you don't think they'll get beaten and I think they might very well get beaten ...................... hardly an overreaction. 'Oblivion','fiasco'? ..................... obviously terms you consider inappropriate. As far as I'm concerned, bottom three places and certainly 1st division is as good as 'oblivion' for a team like Hibs. You could also say that Calderwood's reign at Hibs has and continues to be a fiasco. But let's not quibble about terminology.

Newhaven
21-08-2011, 09:20 PM
I cannae be ersed looking because right now it doesnt really matter where we are 4 games in but where would we be if the two individual errors didnt happen yesterday? FWIW I dont want to go through a another relegation either. It would be disasterous for us.

Lex your surely clutching at straws with this quote?

If we cut out all individual errors by hibs over the last year we would be in the Champions League :confused:

tamig
21-08-2011, 09:21 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

I agree. Think we have a fairly decent squad now - once everyone is fit. A right back is a must and I'm sure we'll see one soon. I think this team will score goals.

Pedantic_Hibee
21-08-2011, 09:22 PM
I agree. Think we have a fairly decent squad now - once everyone is fit. A right back is a must and I'm sure we'll see one soon. I think this team will score goals.

"Ave goat goals in ma team"

Sorry, I've got a really slow broadband connection, I posted the above in August 2010 and it's only come through now :wink:

greenlex
21-08-2011, 09:23 PM
Lex your surely clutching at straws with this quote?

If we cut out all individual errors by hibs over the last year we would be in the Champions League :confused:
No Barry I was merely replying to JC's lucky to get a win at Inverness implication. A bit ham fisted maybe but relevant in the context I think as neither point is relevant.
No straws to be clutched.

matty_f
21-08-2011, 09:42 PM
I agree.

And whilst others may disagree, I think the board think along the same lines as I do (albeit there's an element of saving face in them retaining him I feel). We need to back him, and the players as well.

I think a lot of it comes down to how deep rooted the problems are. We've had issues since Collins, and no amount of changing players and managers has changed it. Mixu showed at Killie he's not a bad manager, he showed it at his previous clubs as well yet he was hounded out of Hibs on the back of some terrible performances.

Yogi had relative success at Falkirk, but had a disastrous spell at Hibs after an initial purple patch. Collins started well but we were absolutely rank by the time he left. And through all of this we've turned over so many players that I have probably forgotten more than I can remember.

If the board genuinely think that CC is the man to take Hibs forward (and considering their resolve to keep him, it would be fair to assume that they do) then this is exactly the time where they should stand by him and ride out the pish spell. This is the point where Yogi and Mixu left and someone else had to start again. Nothing gets built at Hibs. It gets started then broken up and started again.

We clearly cannot afford another season as poor as last season, and the signs at this point are worryingly pointing to us doing exactly that. However, maybe if the club hold's it's nerve and actually believes we're on the right path then there's every chance that we'll eradicate the issues that have plagued us for seasons now.

The signs of improvement have to start showing now though - not next month or after Christmas or after the January window. We can't accept a derby defeat, and a cup exit on Tuesday is unthinkable.

Jonnyboy
21-08-2011, 09:47 PM
I think a lot of it comes down to how deep rooted the problems are. We've had issues since Collins, and no amount of changing players and managers has changed it. Mixu showed at Killie he's not a bad manager, he showed it at his previous clubs as well yet he was hounded out of Hibs on the back of some terrible performances.

Yogi had relative success at Falkirk, but had a disastrous spell at Hibs after an initial purple patch. Collins started well but we were absolutely rank by the time he left. And through all of this we've turned over so many players that I have probably forgotten more than I can remember.

If the board genuinely think that CC is the man to take Hibs forward (and considering their resolve to keep him, it would be fair to assume that they do) then this is exactly the time where they should stand by him and ride out the pish spell. This is the point where Yogi and Mixu left and someone else had to start again. Nothing gets built at Hibs. It gets started then broken up and started again.

We clearly cannot afford another season as poor as last season, and the signs at this point are worryingly pointing to us doing exactly that. However, maybe if the club hold's it's nerve and actually believes we're on the right path then there's every chance that we'll eradicate the issues that have plagued us for seasons now.

The signs of improvement have to start showing now though - not next month or after Christmas or after the January window. We can't accept a derby defeat, and a cup exit on Tuesday is unthinkable.

Top post Matty, especially the highlighted bit :agree:

Riordans Boots
21-08-2011, 10:01 PM
CC is sitting in a good position right now. He is here at Hibs but thinks the grass is greener :taxi

So, for that reason ... I'm out :agree:

Dashing Bob S
22-08-2011, 12:26 PM
I refrained from posting over the weekend as i wanted to let things settle a bit. It's clear to me that the team hasn't progressed since since the era of Hughes. We have no goal threat bar O'Connor, a distinct lack of midfield creativity and are pourous and lightweight at the back.

Yes, it'll be better when O'Hanlon plays, or when we get a right-back or when the team gets to know each other, but it begs the question, how much time?

I disagree with Green Lex, giving CC a whole season unreservedly might see us in the first division, but at least he's had the bottle to nail his colours to the mast.

How much time do other people feel he should be given?

I'd say if there was no imprivement by the end of October he should go. However, right now, I can see us losing every single match under his charge. We're a soft touch and other teams know it.

It's perverse and not good enough that we're now scared of the forthcoming derby, against a really poor, gutless, spiritless and disorganised Hearts side, though I doubt there are many on the board who don't worry that Hearts will get a moraleboosting comprehensive win over us.

BEEJ
22-08-2011, 12:33 PM
I disagree with Green Lex, giving CC a whole season unreservedly might see us in the first division, but at least he's had the bottle to nail his colours to the mast.

How much time do other people feel he should be given?

I'd say if there was no imprivement by the end of October he should go. However, right now, I can see us losing every single match under his charge. We're a soft touch and other teams know it.
If we keep on losing then CC will be gone by the time of the AGM in October.

If things pick up a bit, then review the position in December.

Haggis Hibby
22-08-2011, 12:41 PM
I don't know how the 2 goals were scored today and I don't care. All I know is that we conceeded more goals than we scored at home to a team that shouldn't be a patch on us in terms of quality and results.

I personally don't believe that we as fans are putting enough pressure on the board to produce better. But i'm sure the "dont mess with the board" brigade will be very quickly on here to put me back in my place.


:rolleyes::confused::grr: says it all.... blowing hot air when u havent got a clue.....

WhileTheChief..
22-08-2011, 12:51 PM
If we keep on losing then CC will be gone by the time of the AGM in October.

If things pick up a bit, then review the position in December.

I think you're right. This feels exactly like it did this time last year, going through the motions until finally the manager is sacked. There's no way the AGM will go ahead as planned if results stay the same - the whole thing would just be about the poor performances / results.

I'd like to see him go now.

Lucius Apuleius
22-08-2011, 01:05 PM
His team needs time to gell.
Today was down to two defensive errors and up until the first one we were in control. We were the team that looked like scoring.
Calderwood cant legislate for individual errors.
Young players will make these errors. (The quicker we get O'Hanlon in there with one of Hanlon or Stevens the better)
We desperately need a right back and preferably before whoever out the current squad faces Templeton and or driver as McGowan had a field day today.
Missed in all the negativity today was the fact Stack hardly if ever had a save to make the mistakes aside.
St Mirren dominated about ten to fifteen minutes after Ozzys head knock while he stoated about wondering where he was. He also looked like he had run his race physically as he is not match fit. We got control again after Scott replaced him.
Some of the over reation on other threads is embarrassing.
Discuss.:tin hat:

I actually agree as well Lex. I said to the missus just before they scored that were going to take this game at a canter and really could not see where the words of praise I had been hearing about St Mirren were coming from. Personally thought that if they never had a goalkeeper every move they made would have broken down. Never seen so much backward passing. Well aware it keeps possession but eye bleeding IMO. Two howlers of defensive errors and we were behind. What was disappointing to me was the second half we did nothing, couldn't seem to come back from it. Playing Gaz up front on his own is never going to work though that has been a couple of cracking goals so far, so much for fat and unfit. Off back to Naija tomorrow, so hopefully all will be well before I return :-).