Do Hibs Need a Director of Football?

[The Harp Awakes]

Used to be very much against the idea of football clubs having a Director of Football. The obvious concern is that the position is an added and unnecessary expense and that the role undermines the Manager.

Beginning to wonder though whether a position on the Board with sole responsibilty for football may be the way to go for Hibs.

The reason being that whilst the Board have got everything right financially at the Club, they have failed miserably on the football side in recent years in terms of their managerial selection and ultimately the quality of player and performances on the park.

In other words there seems too much focus at Board level on finances rather than football.

Thoughts:dunno:

[spike220]

Used to be very much against the idea of football clubs having a Director of Football. The obvious concern is that the position is an added and unnecessary expense and that the role undermines the Manager.

Beginning to wonder though whether a position on the Board with sole responsibilty for football may be the way to go for Hibs.

The reason being that whilst the Board have got everything right financially at the Club, they have failed miserably on the football side in recent years in terms of their managerial selection and ultimately the quality of player and performances on the park.

In other words there seems too much focus at Board level on finances rather than football.

Thoughts:dunno:

Only if he can play RB:greengrin:greengrin

[steakbake]

I think you've answered your question in the first paragraph. I've never understood what a Director of Football is for. If a club has a manager and a few other coaches etc, why have another layer of management? Just let the manager and his staff get on with the job they've got.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

My take in it if a dof offers continuity and ensures that the managers vision is in line with the club and acts to ensure the players are appropriate for the club in a way the other directors cannot.
Management speak will talk about a balanced scorecard where the success/progress is measured on a number of factors as the previous post mentioned we got it skewed to off the park. Now time for on the park. I suspect for the overhead alone the dof would be ruled out on a permanent basis but what about on. Consultant basis? Who knows perhaps behind the scenes ther is someone already acting in this capacity!

[Beefster]

Scott Lindsay is, effectively, our Director of Football so I'd argue that we already have one. Whether he's the best man for the job is another debate altogether.

[Ozyhibby]

This is a system the works for Lyon very well. They recognise that managers come and go and don't purchase players with a view to the long term (de Graf, micheal Hart etc). They have a committee of scouts, coaches and the current manager who decide on every purchase. They only buy young players who they can sell in the future. Up until about 10 years ago they were a second division club with lower gates than Hibs. Since then they have won the French league league 8 times under 4 different managers and are the most popular club in France. I've never understood why managers get to hire whoever they want. I can't think of any other industry that does things this way and club in Europe understand this.

[sahib]

This is a system the works for Lyon very well. They recognise that managers come and go and don't purchase players with a view to the long term (de Graf, micheal Hart etc). They have a committee of scouts, coaches and the current manager who decide on every purchase. They only buy young players who they can sell in the future. Up until about 10 years ago they were a second division club with lower gates than Hibs. Since then they have won the French league league 8 times under 4 different managers and are the most popular club in France. I've never understood why managers get to hire whoever they want. I can't think of any other industry that does things this way and club in Europe understand this.

So Vlad has got it about right then.:wink:

[offshorehibby]

This is a system the works for Lyon very well. They recognise that managers come and go and don't purchase players with a view to the long term (de Graf, micheal Hart etc). They have a committee of scouts, coaches and the current manager who decide on every purchase. They only buy young players who they can sell in the future. Up until about 10 years ago they were a second division club with lower gates than Hibs. Since then they have won the French league league 8 times under 4 different managers and are the most popular club in France. I've never understood why managers get to hire whoever they want. I can't think of any other industry that does things this way and club in Europe understand this.

That model if we could follow it would be great. I don't think we need to bring in a DOF at another £100K+ a year. Scott Lindsay with say Alistair Stevenson would be perfect to carry the continuity between managers. SL seems to be doing fine in his roll out at EM's and i still think given time things will all fall into place for CC and Hibs.

[blackpoolhibs]

We just need players that can direct the football a little better, and a manager who can give better directions

[smurf]

That model if we could follow it would be great. I don't think we need to bring in a DOF at another £100K+ a year. Scott Lindsay with say Alistair Stevenson would be perfect to carry the continuity between managers. SL seems to be doing fine in his roll out at EM's and i still think given time things will all fall into place for CC and Hibs.

Not saying he's not but intrigued to know how you conclude SL is doing fine when he's just started in his new role?

[Dashing Bob S]

I'd love to see us spend £250,000 a year we can't afford, to hear yet another guy in a suit coming out with tedious rhetoric. Go for it!

[Cropley10]

Not saying he's not but intrigued to know how you conclude SL is doing fine when he's just started in his new role?

Well we beat ICT :dunno:

[Cropley10]

Scott Lindsay is, effectively, our Director of Football so I'd argue that we already have one. Whether he's the best man for the job is another debate altogether.

As I understand it Rod was previously DoF but Scott's now taken over - hasn't he decided the future is based on our young players and less loans?

[Perspective]

I'd argue we do need one, but only if it was the right person. A good one is the most important person at a club.

The turnover of players at Easter Road over the past few seasons is ridiculous, as is the imbalanced nature of the squad. A good Director of Football would rectify that - looking long-term to promote youngsters from within while identifying positions that need to be filled in the short-term.

Take football responsibility away from Scott Lindsay and people who aren't adequately qualified to identify and recruit players. They've shown they're not up to the job.

[RIP]

A thorough read of the main Hibernian FC website and close monitoring of recent Hibernian TV interviews with the directors will confirm that with effect from the 2011/2012 pre-season Scott Lindsay took over responsibility for the football department at East Mains. He supports the manager with signings, player contracts, long-term strategy and appears to have been instrumental in the promotion of Alastair Stevenson to first team coach, with a focus on youth development.

It's way too early to say whether he's the right man for the job but we couldn't sustain leaving the entire responsibility for squad building and success on the park to whoever Rod happened to have in the managers job in any particular season. There needed to be a Hibs strategy rather than a Collins strategy, Mixu Strategy, Yogi Strategy or Calderwood Strategy. Managers will always be supported to bring in some of their own picks but not always at the expense of breeding our own through the academy

I know it's frustrating for some supporters that Hibs don't hold press conferences to explain the relationships between club management and the coaching teams. Not all of us have the time to invest in reading the club website or can afford to subscribe to Hibernian TV. But make no mistake there have been changes this year and if this is evidence that the board are now focusing more on the football operation then they are going to need to improve at least 2 or 3 places in the league and have a better cup run before we will acknowledge any difference.

For me it's all about entertainment and results at the end of the day

[offshorehibby]

Not saying he's not but intrigued to know how you conclude SL is doing fine when he's just started in his new role?

Just what i gleam from the man so far. OK he has only recently taken up the post but the way he has handled transfers so far. The way i see it between him and AS they no the direction the board and football club need to be taken and have taken on a strategy to hopefully achieve that. They also hopefully will be here long term.

[RIP]

I'd argue we do need one, but only if it was the right person. A good one is the most important person at a club.

The turnover of players at Easter Road over the past few seasons is ridiculous, as is the imbalanced nature of the squad. A good Director of Football would rectify that - looking long-term to promote youngsters from within while identifying positions that need to be filled in the short-term.

Take football responsibility away from Scott Lindsay and people who aren't adequately qualified to identify and recruit players. They've shown they're not up to the job.

Can you expand a bit on that, particularly who you think has been identifying players?
SL has only been in place 3 months - which of his failures have we seen evidence of since April?

[Purple & Green]

I think what we need more is a performance director/psychologist to get more out of the players we have.

[Craig_in_Prague]

I'd argue we do need one, but only if it was the right person. A good one is the most important person at a club.

The turnover of players at Easter Road over the past few seasons is ridiculous, as is the imbalanced nature of the squad. A good Director of Football would rectify that - looking long-term to promote youngsters from within while identifying positions that need to be filled in the short-term.

Take football responsibility away from Scott Lindsay and people who aren't adequately qualified to identify and recruit players. They've shown they're not up to the job.

It's the managers responsibility along with his coaching staff, to identify and recruit players.
Lindsay I think clearly states this on the recent interviews.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Pause....

Did Scott Lindsay said that his opinion on players was irrelevant/counted for nothing?


Dunno what more the guy can say to convince folks he's leaving the manager to do his iob?

[Perspective]

Apologies, that was clumsily written. I don't hold SL personally accountable because, as has been pointed out, he's only been in his new role a relatively short period of time.

But I'm not convinced all of the signings in recent times have been instigated solely by the manager. I don't think that should be the case anyway, as managers only have short-term interests.

I like the way Nottingham Forest go about things, with a transfer committee. The manager's opinion obviously holds a lot of sway but he doesn't have the final call. His signings must meet a certain criteria.

My vision for Hibs would be the teams (from youth level up) playing a similar passing system similar to the one currently being deployed by Kilmarnock. A DOF would oversee the various levels, monitor the talent coming through and ensure they have room for progression (and aren't stifled by short-term first-team signings). Any areas where we aren't covered (or where there are gaps between the levels) would be filled with external players of genuine quality. There should be a real concerted effort to source good young talent, even if it means paying development fees (like Hearts have done successfully with the likes of David Templeton and Andy Webster to name but two).

[Mikey]

Pause....

Did Scott Lindsay said that his opinion on players was irrelevant/counted for nothing?



Yes, but if you say the opposite often enough it becomes FACT :wink:

[JustSimplyHibs]

How about Alex Miller as Director of Football. the guy steadied a football team in our darkest days ever where there was no money for the quality of player the fans desired...a ken we have no money now but this guy really did have no cash.

With the infrastructure we have at East Mains, Hibernian should be helping local youth football clubs in the North, South and East of the city and as far as Dunbar by coaching the coaches and players some of the time. By monitoring their progress in the game from the Age of 7 right through to 17 - 18 Hibs would have the pick of so many talent that some how gets lost in the footballing system.

Take Leith Athletic's U19 team of 2009, unbeatable to say the leastfor years yet how many of these guys have went on to bigger and better things? Hardly any i bet and in all honesty would have given our U19s team a run for their money and a bet they never had the facilities our 19s have.

That's 1 ay the role i'd like to see the DoF oversee.

[Hibiza]

lets start with a manager.

[matty_f]

As I understand it Rod was previously DoF but Scott's now taken over - hasn't he decided the future is based on our young players and less loans?

Only if you take what's said by posters on hibs.net as being comment from Hibs. Nobody at Hibs has publically stated this, AFAIK.

[Arch Stanton]

Apologies, that was clumsily written. I don't hold SL personally accountable because, as has been pointed out, he's only been in his new role a relatively short period of time.

But I'm not convinced all of the signings in recent times have been instigated solely by the manager. I don't think that should be the case anyway, as managers only have short-term interests.

I like the way Nottingham Forest go about things, with a transfer committee. The manager's opinion obviously holds a lot of sway but he doesn't have the final call. His signings must meet a certain criteria.

My vision for Hibs would be the teams (from youth level up) playing a similar passing system similar to the one currently being deployed by Kilmarnock. A DOF would oversee the various levels, monitor the talent coming through and ensure they have room for progression (and aren't stifled by short-term first-team signings). Any areas where we aren't covered (or where there are gaps between the levels) would be filled with external players of genuine quality. There should be a real concerted effort to source good young talent, even if it means paying development fees (like Hearts have done successfully with the likes of David Templeton and Andy Webster to name but two).

I'm not a fan of committees as a rule, but I CAN see how an expert strategist could be extremely useful in dealing with the massive numbers of variables at play - a committee set-up would enable having a strategist who was not necessarily a football expert (and people having expertise in both are pretty non-existent as far as I can see).

[RIP]

Only if you take what's said by posters on hibs.net as being comment from Hibs. Nobody at Hibs has publically stated this, AFAIK.

Well Matty YOKFA :wink:

Hibs Website 18 April
"At the Hibernian Training Centre, Scott Lindsay will....lead a dedicated football administration department, in support of manager Colin Calderwood. Scott has already assumed the majority of Executive responsibility for the football department over the last few years.This move merely formalises the demand for an increased support strcture around the football department at the Hibernian Training Centre."

In Lindsay's Hibernian TV interview he stresses that he "works incredibly closely with the manager on a day to day basis" and "my opinion on the football front counts for nothing, his counts for everything" "decisions on player recruitment are down to a combination of the manager and his coaching staff" "Our squad will have a blend of youth and experience" "Increased focus on youth development during the summer" "A successful pipeline coming through"

Hibs Website 9 June
"Alastair Stevenson has been consistently involved at first team level since Colin Calderwood's arrival at the club a situation that has now been formalised with his appointment as first team coach......Stevenson maintains a specific interest in the progression of players from the Hibernian Youth Academy through to the Hibernian first team."

In Stevenson's Hibernian TV interview there are constant references about "bringing players through from the academy" "developing them into first team players" and "dialogue with the manager when he's building his squad"

[Sir David Gray]

I firmly believe that a manager should be the one who's solely responsible for all transfer decisions that are made at the club and who picks the team on matchday.

If he fails then he's the one who's sacked and if he succeeds then he's the one who can take all the credit.

[matty_f]

Well Matty YOKFA :wink:

Hibs Website 18 April
"At the Hibernian Training Centre, Scott Lindsay will....lead a dedicated football administration department, in support of manager Colin Calderwood. Scott has already assumed the majority of Executive responsibility for the football department over the last few years.This move merely formalises the demand for an increased support strcture around the football department at the Hibernian Training Centre."

In Lindsay's Hibernian TV interview he stresses that he "works incredibly closely with the manager on a day to day basis" and "my opinion on the football front counts for nothing, his counts for everything" "decisions on player recruitment are down to a combination of the manager and his coaching staff" "Our squad will have a blend of youth and experience" "Increased focus on youth development during the summer" "A successful pipeline coming through"

Hibs Website 9 June
"Alastair Stevenson has been consistently involved at first team level since Colin Calderwood's arrival at the club a situation that has now been formalised with his appointment as first team coach......Stevenson maintains a specific interest in the progression of players from the Hibernian Youth Academy through to the Hibernian first team."

In Stevenson's Hibernian TV interview there are constant references about "bringing players through from the academy" "developing them into first team players" and "dialogue with the manager when he's building his squad"

Not quite what Cropley said, though. No mention at all of loans, and the comment I've highlighted says that the squad will have a blend of youth and experience as well as increasing focus on youth development.