Tactics on Sunday - what would you have done?

[RIP]

Most posters yesterday and today appear to agree that it was suicide to go to Rugby Park and attempt to play the game in the opposition half. Under Mixu (as per Collins at Hibs) Killie had been schooled to play it out from the keeper and avoid hoofball at any cost. All Calderwood needed was a strategy to counter that - right?

Sproule, Wotherspoon and O'Connor started by pressing their goalie and full backs and Killie responded immediately by playing past Sproule, up the wing, ball over top, goal!!

At times we only had Stack in our own half and with our full backs venturing past the half way line we were effectively operating a TWO-MAN defence in front of our goalie. This would have been a high-risk strategy at home let alone at a ground where we have been unsuccessful in the past and a combined age of 'younger than Davie Weir' in the middle of the defence.

It's my belief that it was Calderwood's tactics, rather than our personnel that were to blame for our demise. With a different shape - would we have been so exposed? Could we have set ourselves out to be harder to beat?

In our half
Stack
Wotherspoon, Stephens, Hanlon, Booth
Pallson and Murray as twin DM's in front and doubling up on their wingers

In their half
Sproule, Thornhill, Stevenson - right, centre and left mid
O'Connor up top

With EXACTLY the same team - how would you have set them out from the kick-off?

[Andy74]

Most posters yesterday and today appear to agree that it was suicide to go to Rugby Park and attempt to play the game in the opposition half. Under Mixu (as per Collins at Hibs) Killie had been schooled to play it out from the keeper and avoid hoofball at any cost. All Calderwood needed was a strategy to counter that - right?

Sproule, Wotherspoon and O'Connor started by pressing their goalie and full backs and Killie responded immediately by playing past Sproule, up the wing, ball over top, goal!!

At times we only had Stack in our own half and with our full backs venturing past the half way line we were effectively operating a TWO-MAN defence in front of our goalie. This would have been a high-risk strategy at home let alone at a ground where we have been unsuccessful in the past and a combined age of 'younger than Davie Weir' in the middle of the defence.

It's my belief that it was Calderwood's tactics, rather than our personnel that were to blame for our demise. With a different shape - would we have been so exposed? Could we have set ourselves out to be harder to beat?

In our half
Stack
Wotherspoon, Stephens, Hanlon, Booth
Pallson and Murray as twin DM's in front and doubling up on their wingers

In their half
Sproule, Thornhill, Stevenson - right, centre and left mid
O'Connor up top

With EXACTLY the same team - how would you have set them out from the kick-off?

We are talking about this as if it was Barcelona away instead of a Kilmarnock team that hadn't won at all under their new manager and not at all since March.

The winger who ripped us to bits last played for Bishops Stortford. He played a whole 3 games for them. Prior to that he'd played 2 games for Yeovil and 3 for Crawley Town. He'd also been out with a cruciate injury for 6 months.

Sad times if we have to look too deeply into this one.

[Geo_1875]

I'd have had somebody in right midfield who could give RB some protection. Other than that I cankt see that there was much wrong with the line-up

[EasterRoad4Ever]

We just don't have the players to play a pressing game. It was madness.

Our midfield cannot tackle, and don't have the presence/energy to play high up the pitch AND be able to defend when needed. A basic problem was with the number of times Killie got behind our midfield (Murray/Stephenson) and were running at our back 4 unopposed.

We should have sat back, let killie have the ball and hit them on the break.

[yekimevol]

truthfully play like man city with two holding midfielders.

stack
wortherspoon, stephens hanlon booth
Murray palsson
sproule thornhill Galbraith or stevenson :/
oconnor

more support for a inexperienced defence. with thornhill pushing up to support garry and get back to take the ball of the holding midfielders. ivan and danny bombing up the wings.

this should have solved the problems, if we can get vidal at right back i would love to play spoony as the attacking midfielder.

main problems we need a left midfielder and a center back is o'hanlon is going to be out much.

[Speedway]

I would have played a 1-1-3-1-2-2-1

We would have been 4-0 up before the first whistle.

[Arch Stanton]

We just don't have the players to play a pressing game. It was madness.

Our midfield cannot tackle, and don't have the presence/energy to play high up the pitch AND be able to defend when needed. A basic problem was with the number of times Killie got behind our midfield (Murray/Stephenson) and were running at our back 4 unopposed.

We should have sat back, let killie have the ball and hit them on the break.

I would have said the Charge of the Light Brigade was madness - our tactics on Sunday were more just a bit of a mistake, wouldn't you agree? :greengrin

[Hibeesb0unc3]

i think another problem is our full backs inability to show wingers on to their weaker foot. Instead they show them inside every time:confused:

[frazeHFC]

Mentality, attacking
Philosophy, fluid
Closing down, often
Marking, man

I would have set us up like my FM Hibs side, sure to win.

[edwards]

Pallson

Hanlon

Stephens

Wotherspoon

And even Booth were all pretty dire which makes me wonder if the young crew were all out on the P1ss on Saturday night. :fuming:

[Ed De Gramo]

I would have told the Killie catering people to order more pies....

Ice cream and tablet is not the staple diet of Scottish football :greengrin

[RIP]

We just don't have the players to play a pressing game. It was madness.

Our midfield cannot tackle, and don't have the presence/energy to play high up the pitch AND be able to defend when needed. A basic problem was with the number of times Killie got behind our midfield (Murray/Stephenson) and were running at our back 4 unopposed.

We should have sat back, let killie have the ball and hit them on the break.

Yes it works for the Huns

Killie passed around us

Funny that there are hundreds of people on Hibs.Net advocating the sacking of our young players but very few willing to blame the formation. Do we really think the team were 100% convinced by the coach's tactics.

Looked a high-risk strategy at best

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I thought the tactics were fine, to be honest.

[Prawn Sandwich]

Well, Stack seems to think we need more leaders on the field and better communication. I know it's
not a tactic, but certainly a basic.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/265243/Hibernian-s-Graham-Stack-calls-for-pitch-leadership

[Franck is God]

The tactics were fine on Sunday but the personel was wrong in my opinion. For their first goal we actually closed down very quickly until their left back came forward with the ball then Ian Murray who was playing as the right side defensive midfielder was very slow closing down which meant Palsson had to move over, Stephens had to follow him, Hanlon then had to fill the gap but before he got round the ball was played into the space and the striker finished well.

The second goal had a huge element of luck to it, it was excellent wing play from Dayton and he did make Booth look a bit silly. Hanlons positioning was fine and he had to try and cut it out and it just came off his studs, could have gone anywhere.

At the start of the second half he took off Thornhill who wasn't getting anywhere near the ball and Stevenson too although I thought Murray was lucky to play the 90 as he did nothing either. He made a good attacking change and I though we looked far more likely to score until they broke forward and got the free kick at the edge of the box which led to their 3rd which was a fantastic free kick.

I was disappointed with the reaction after that as they completely over ran us for the last 25 minutes and all we did was kick it away any time it came near our goal which is simply not good enough and Killie were unlucky not to get a bigger win in the end.

The only thing I might have done differently form the start is play a more orthodox three in the centre to make a real 4-5-1 when we didn't have the ball which would have made it harder for them to push their full backs on. To do that we need a fit Osbourne & Palsson in there though and as that wasn't available from the start of the match on Sunday maybe thats why he stuck with what worked at ICT.

[hibee81]

i think another problem is our full backs inability to show wingers on to their weaker foot. Instead they show them inside every time:confused: "Instead they show them inside every time"As a full back and coached by a number of very good coaches (coaches who are full time coaches in the premier league now with swansea being one of them), this is what i have always been told to do when deeper in your own half, as this is where the majority of bodies are and where you should be able to rely on a bit of help from either your centre halfs of back tracking midfielders to force the play.If further up the park show the player outside and just hope you have the legs or just ability to deal with it. IMO the tactics played were not to bad, but just not carried out the way the gaffer wanted. I think we seemed to bypass the centre of the parkhense the ball coming straight back down our throat putting our very young and inexperienced defenders under alot of pressure.Centre of the park is key to any game and if they are chasing shadows for the majority and very seldom getting a touch of the ballthen you are going to get frustrated and your game suffers. JUST MY OPINION OF COURSE!!!!!!!!

[truehibernian]

"Instead they show them inside every time"As a full back and coached by a number of very good coaches (coaches who are full time coaches in the premier league now with swansea being one of them), this is what i have always been told to do when deeper in your own half, as this is where the majority of bodies are and where you should be able to rely on a bit of help from either your centre halfs of back tracking midfielders to force the play.If further up the park show the player outside and just hope you have the legs or just ability to deal with it. IMO the tactics played were not to bad, but just not carried out the way the gaffer wanted. I think we seemed to bypass the centre of the parkhense the ball coming straight back down our throat putting our very young and inexperienced defenders under alot of pressure.Centre of the park is key to any game and if they are chasing shadows for the majority and very seldom getting a touch of the ballthen you are going to get frustrated and your game suffers. JUST MY OPINION OF COURSE!!!!!!!!

Good post and very true, but when you show players inside from the full back area, unless they have an overlapping option/player, you track the runner inside too. That way you are an additional man to close space, as they run into a more populated area. Killie played a very obvious 4-3-3, with Silva adopting a very wide position all the time, with no wingback/full back giving him help. He nearly always cut inside, yet Palsson nearly always failed to track him and indeed literally jogged into empty space marking no one and not closing down space.

The marking wasn't tight enough across the backline. The gaps between Hanlon and Stephens were far too big, made more frustrating when you think it was only Heffernan they collectively had to pick up. If Palsson had done his job properly, then Stephens especially wouldn't have had to attack the space as often thus creating the huge gap.

It is of course easy to say with hindsight, but the defence lacked cohesion and someone to point fingers and orchestrate. When you press high up the pitch, you also need fitness in the midfield when it breaks down, and also your defenders playing a higher line. We didn't. Murray and Stevenson were quite cumbersome, and our defence was about 10/15 yards too deep in our own half. You naturally risk playing attackers onside, but both Hanlon and Stephens for me have the required pace if the attacker stays on (especially Stephens).

[Hibeesb0unc3]

"Instead they show them inside every time"As a full back and coached by a number of very good coaches (coaches who are full time coaches in the premier league now with swansea being one of them), this is what i have always been told to do when deeper in your own half, as this is where the majority of bodies are and where you should be able to rely on a bit of help from either your centre halfs of back tracking midfielders to force the play.If further up the park show the player outside and just hope you have the legs or just ability to deal with it. IMO the tactics played were not to bad, but just not carried out the way the gaffer wanted. I think we seemed to bypass the centre of the parkhense the ball coming straight back down our throat putting our very young and inexperienced defenders under alot of pressure.Centre of the park is key to any game and if they are chasing shadows for the majority and very seldom getting a touch of the ballthen you are going to get frustrated and your game suffers. JUST MY OPINION OF COURSE!!!!!!!!

Fair enough. It must be that our defening needs working on then because every time we showed a killie winger inside they seemed to have plenty of time on the ball to pick out a pass or shoot. I do agree that the tactics were good and that they just obviously didnt carry them out properly with the lack of closing down etc

[andyg]

Think the problem lies with our back four. Although being good prospects for the future they don't have any real leadership or experience and are all 21 or under. We need an experienced right back to come in and another centre back to fill in or compete for a position with O'hanlon.
A new Right back will release poulsson into Right midfield and have Sproule on the bench to come on as an impact player.