How much is calderwood costing the club?

[blackpoolhibs]

The stayaway fans were blamed for costing us the best part of a hundred grand against Celtic, this incumbent has to be liable for a few quid too.

[ronaldo7]

The stairway fans were blamed for costing us the best part of a hundred grand against Celtic, this incumbent has to be liable for a few quid too.

He gets in for nowt so about £400 a season.

[blackpoolhibs]

He gets in for nowt so about £400 a season.

He should be ejected as soon as possible, he can then use mine to watchthat push. R

[blackpoolhibs]

Bloody mobiles

[MSK]

He should be ejected as soon as possible, he can then use mine to watchthat push. RAye ..I agree ..esp the R bit ..

[ronaldo7]

Bloody mobiles

We just wurnae mobile enough.

[RickyS]

The stayaway fans were blamed for costing us the best part of a hundred grand against Celtic, this incumbent has to be liable for a few quid too.

sure it was season ticket sales that lead to Mixu's departure, perhaps CC is lucky to have the recession to blame.
if we end up sacking CC in a few months Rod should not be involved in the next selection process

[Lofarl]

If CC goes this season due to poor performances then Rod should go with him. Petrie has had his time in the sun.

[Dinkydoo]

We just wurnae mobile enough.

Tapatalk folk ken whits gan oan.

[sesoim]

The stayaway fans were blamed for costing us the best part of a hundred grand against Celtic, this incumbent has to be liable for a few quid too.


If you count our plummetting gates, missing out on the top six tv revenue last season (which, whatever anybody says, we would have reached with a decent manager in charge), losing more than £300k by instead finishing 10th, and getting put out in the 1st round of the SC by Ayr, then he has cost us well over a million so far. Throw in the fact that his wages are higher than a lot of other guys who could have done a better job, and also the risk that he could leave us in deep schtook this season if we end up stranded at the bottom, and he could end up costing us millions.

[Emerald]

Just a question. CC has spent his whole footballing career in England and seems to think that players from the English leagues are a step up. It would seem that being a good reserve player in England is better that a top SPL (or other) professional. He may be proved right in time but how come Kilmarnock make us look like we are back playing Barca again. How come a pro football team cant get a RB. Hibs must be able to pick up a half decent right back from somewhere. The defence is an utter shambles and has been for months and months and there is no real captain in the team kicking ass. No improvement at all as far as I can see.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you count our plummetting gates, missing out on the top six tv revenue last season (which, whatever anybody says, we would have reached with a decent manager in charge), losing more than £300k by instead finishing 10th, and getting put out in the 1st round of the SC by Ayr, then he has cost us well over a million so far. Throw in the fact that his wages are higher than a lot of other guys who could have done a better job, and also the risk that he could leave us in deep schtook this season if we end up stranded at the bottom, and he could end up costing us millions.

100% spot on, we will end up paying him off, mark my words.:rolleyes:

[Stonewall]

100% spot on, we will end up paying him off, mark my words.:rolleyes:

Probably why Notts Forest and Birmingham haven't upped their bids for CC's services. Get him for nothing in November.

[IWasThere2016]

The stayaway fans were blamed for costing us the best part of a hundred grand against Celtic, this incumbent has to be liable for a few quid too.

Aye - bring back Yogi as he made us millions on the sale of Fletcher.

Havering erses ken whit's goin oan! :agree:

[3pm]

Aye - bring back Yogi as he made us millions on the sale of Fletcher.

Havering erses ken whit's goin oan! :agree:

Nowt to do with Hughes (and you and I share similar views on him)! He was the havering erse you refer to but Calderwood's record is worse....and shows no sign of improving.

He's ran his race, NEXT!

[The Falcon]

Nowt to do with Hughes (and you and I share similar views on him)! He was the havering erse you refer to but Calderwood's record is worse....and shows no sign of improving.

He's ran his race, NEXT!

And who might "next" be?

[Ray_]

And who might "next" be?

Rod Petrie should know, he told us time & again that the Hibs board had a criteria list & once the ticked boxes were complete, they had their man!


Well it worked once:greengrin

[Jim44]

According to Calderwood's, yesterday was a " terrific lesson" and "good experience" Have we learned nothing from all the other trouncings we've had under Calderwood's?

[happiehibbie]

We may all laugh at mad Vald but a least he makes his mind up fast once more we will slowly drop down the pecking order WE will be asked to come and support the team as it is our fault we are P!!H . I dont want to see mangers come and go but I do belive Mr C does not want to be at Easter Road its like having a player who wants to leave. the commitment is jusst not there. MrP should have taken the £300k they where offered for him and moved on to a manager who wants to be in Edinburgh who wants to the manager of Hibs.

A tanking from Killie might just be the wake up call we have been waiting for as Hibs cannot afford another season like the last 2 only over 4k at the game on Sunday i can see that happening at ER soon as i dont know how many ST we have sold I have one but I will not be watching a load of P!!h again this year if this continues. i can think of other things to do on a Saturday I have watched hibs for over 40 years and i must say that at the moment i do not get excited about the games anymore. I do not blame the supporters for this I blame our management structure and investors sold all the crown jewls and now we watching players like Stevenson in a word MURDER

I do hope it gets better soon

I think we all need to realise that we are not going to be challanging for honours again this year there are only 3 trophies to play for we will not win the leauge so that leaves two our SC performances speak for themselves now that leaves the leauge cup and we have entered that in the early rounds not a good omen

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH :flag:

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye - bring back Yogi as he made us millions on the sale of Fletcher.

Havering erses ken whit's goin oan! :agree:

Of course when you have nowt better to say, and yer man makes ANOTHER cock up of team selection and tactics, revert back to Hughes.:rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

The only manager capable of increasing attendances was Mowbray. Unfortunately even if another Mowbray came along now I dont think we'd come close to filling ER anymore. The economic situation will hit attendances for years to come.

[Andy74]

Aye - bring back Yogi as he made us millions on the sale of Fletcher.

Havering erses ken whit's goin oan! :agree:

He, you keep having a laugh at that whilst the present guy you keep telling us is the man makes an even worse job.

[Elephant Stone]

To think we could've taken money for him to have been punted. :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

The only manager capable of increasing attendances was Mowbray. Unfortunately even if another Mowbray came along now I dont think we'd come close to filling ER anymore. The economic situation will hit attendances for years to come.

Although Mowbray had his faults, there's not been a manager before apart from Turnbull who excited me about going to watch Hibs. We used to run buses from Lancashire all the time to watch us when he was in charge, now we are lucky to fill a car most weeks.

He certainly got the juices going, now we are back to the miller years.

[IWasThere2016]

Of course when you have nowt better to say, and yer man makes ANOTHER cock up of team selection and tactics, revert back to Hughes.:rolleyes:


He, you keep having a laugh at that whilst the present guy you keep telling us is the man makes an even worse job.

So you want CC out guys? Followed closely by RP?

[hibsbollah]

Although Mowbray had his faults, there's not been a manager before apart from Turnbull who excited me about going to watch Hibs. We used to run buses from Lancashire all the time to watch us when he was in charge, now we are lucky to fill a car most weeks.He certainly got the juices going, now we are back to the miller years.Absolutely. And attendances were 2 or 3 thousand up on comparable fixtures under mixu or collins, despite only having an average win-loss record. It was the quality of the football that brought people

[blackpoolhibs]

So you want CC out guys? Followed closely by RP?

Surely its Hughes fault Petrie appointed so many duff managers?????????

[Expecting Rain]

Aberdeen 4 Hibs 2 Calderwoods first game in charge, we haven`t progressed and are still being fed with the same old cliches in the post match analysis. Let`s get down to basics, we don`t have a right back, we have a centre half who has neither pace or positional sense and for his height doesn`t win much or threaten in the air, we have two left footed uncreative midfield players in the middle, a right footed player wide on the left and an impact player on the right wing and finally a centre forward who needs bigger shoulders to carry the rest of the team through the present campaign before he decides to join either Riordan in China or Miller in Australia.
Team wise we look like we`ve left off from the end of last season, shapeless, lack lustre, uncompetitive, unimaginative and heading towards the first division to emerge like Dundee, once a big club with an empty stadium, agents must be falling over themselves to contact Hibs in the transfer window, where do we go from here?
We could start by playing players in their proper position, players who are fit, players who show urgency for the duration of the match and perhaps even add a bit of real quality by signing a proper right back and someone who can pass the ball in the centre of midfield.

[Andy74]

So you want CC out guys? Followed closely by RP?

Yes, don't you? You were very vocal about records and stats until CC ended up the same way.

[marinello59]

Surely its Hughes fault Petrie appointed so many duff managers?????????

You could answer the question.

[down-the-slope]

Although Mowbray had his faults, there's not been a manager before apart from Turnbull who excited me about going to watch Hibs. We used to run buses from Lancashire all the time to watch us when he was in charge, now we are lucky to fill a car most weeks.

He certainly got the juices going, now we are back to the miller years.

ER WAS generally good to be at then..however look at the away record he had..we were appalling away from home a lot of the time...rose tinted and we still won nowt...as time passes Collins and Miller will be remembered for the cups and little else from past 30 years...

[blackpoolhibs]

You could answer the question.

What diffrence would it make to him, it would be Hughes fault Calderwood was sacked? Fwiw i do want him out, we were a shambles yesterday, St Johnstone away, remember that. Was yesterday any different?


Petrie he can do what he wants, he wont leave unless its to the SFA. His 10 per cent means he will always have a say on things until he sells it.

He's slipped a little into the background recently, and Fyfe and Scott seem to be doing most of the work now. If Calderwood goes anytime soon, Petrie should be nowhere near the appointment of any new man they look to get in.

[Purple & Green]

Just some perspective to add:

Prior to this season:

Our last 10 homes against Celtic had produced 3 wins, 2 draws and 5 defeats (average 1.1 points per game)
Our 9 aways at Inverness had produced 2 draws and 7 defeats (average 0.22 points per game)
Our last 10 aways at Kilmarnock had produced 1 win 3 draws and 6 defeats (0.6 points per game)

Or to put it another way - that would average out after three games as 1.82 points.

Here we are with 3 points.

Give the manager a break - he's trying to mould some young players with some quality coming in - it will take time, and we'll have good days and bad days but there's a clear plan in place.

[blackpoolhibs]

ER WAS generally good to be at then..however look at the away record he had..we were appalling away from home a lot of the time...rose tinted and we still won nowt...as time passes Collins and Miller will be remembered for the cups and little else from past 30 years...

Easter road was generally good to go to and be at when Mowbray was here, god forbid it we want to go back to those days again?

We dont know when we have it good, even 4th place a couple of seasons ago couldn't be celebrated by some. I wonder what is success at easter road these days, and why they think that?

[IWasThere2016]

Yes, don't you? You were very vocal about records and stats until CC ended up the same way.

CC - when it gets to the WORST ever home form - yes.

RP - As you know, I've wanted RP away for some time ...

[marinello59]

What diffrence would it make to him, it would be Hughes fault Calderwood was sacked? Fwiw i do want him out, we were a shambles yesterday, St Johnstone away, remember that. Was yesterday any different?


Petrie he can do what he wants, he wont leave unless its to the SFA. His 10 per cent means he will always have a say on things until he sells it.

He's slipped a little into the background recently, and Fyfe and Scott seem to be doing most of the work now. If Calderwood goes anytime soon, Petrie should be nowhere near the appointment of any new man they look to get in.

I actually thought yesterday was a worse performance. It's only the third game of the season though. If we continue in that vein for another three or four matches Calderwood is doomed. I'm sure we'd all be happier if Calderwood shows he is made of the right stuff over the coming weeks. I am crossing my fingers and buying a ton of lucky white heather before we play St Mirren.

[blackpoolhibs]

I actually thought yesterday was a worse performance. It's only the third game of the season though. If we continue in that vein for another three or four matches Calderwood is doomed. I'm sure we'd all be happier if Calderwood shows he is made of the right stuff over the coming weeks. I am crossing my fingers and buying a ton of lucky white heather before we play St Mirren.

Although some folk will not believe me, i shall be in my seat wishing the very same thing next Saturday.

[JimBHibees]

Jeezo one bad result and the vultures are back he has signed a few and they need a bit of time to gel into a team. Yesterdays result was worrying that is for sure however a bit of patience is required.

[down-the-slope]

Easter road was generally good to go to and be at when Mowbray was here, god forbid it we want to go back to those days again?

We dont know when we have it good, even 4th place a couple of seasons ago couldn't be celebrated by some. I wonder what is success at easter road these days, and why they think that?

Not sure i'm getting your point..think we are agreeing ER was good then...however you convieniently omit the point that we were often as honking away from home under TM as we apparently (I was not there nor watching listning yesterday...and as I moan at others will not comment on a match / players I did not see) according to most were yesterday....

Now I don't expect us to sweep teams away at ER under CC but do expect it to become a place that other teams struggle to get points at...lets see come end of Sept how its panning out

[down-the-slope]

Although some folk will not believe me, i shall be in my seat wishing the very same thing next Saturday.

That Sir is why your opinion has more has more clout :agree:

[Steve20]

Jeezo one bad result and the vultures are back he has signed a few and they need a bit of time to gel into a team. Yesterdays result was worrying that is for sure however a bit of patience is required.

It's not one bad result. Calderwood's record as Hibs manager is shocking. All the defeats can't just be "bad days at the office".

[marinello59]

Although some folk will not believe me, i shall be in my seat wishing the very same thing next Saturday.

I believe you BH. :greengrin

[Expecting Rain]

Jeezo one bad result and the vultures are back he has signed a few and they need a bit of time to gel into a team. Yesterdays result was worrying that is for sure however a bit of patience is required.

How much patience can a man have Jim? Pub team managers show more logic, there`s no sense of balance, urgency or creativity, the thrashing yesterday was no surprise on the back of the extremely fortunate clean sheet and victory at Inverness, we haven`t moved on from Calderwoods managerial debut at Pittodrie.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not sure i'm getting your point..think we are agreeing ER was good then...however you convieniently omit the point that we were often as honking away from home under TM as we apparently (I was not there nor watching listning yesterday...and as I moan at others will not comment on a match / players I did not see) according to most were yesterday....

Now I don't expect us to sweep teams away at ER under CC but do expect it to become a place that other teams struggle to get points at...lets see come end of Sept how its panning out

My point i suppose is, it was not a chore to make the effort to get down to easter road, whatever the score. I remember walking back to the car after that 4-4 game against Dundee thinking i cant wait for next week.

Yes there were some stinkers, but by Monday we were back onside champing at the bit for Saturday to come, well i was it was exciting to be a Hibby.

I could accept crap football if we were winning, i'm sure crowds would return too. Although watching a disjointed side, with little cohesion or idea being pumped by Kilmarnock is just not acceptable.

What a lot of folk seem to be dismissing about yesterday, is that could have been 7 or 8, we were that bad.

[Kaiser1962]

CC - when it gets to the WORST ever home form - yes.

RP - As you know, I've wanted RP away for some time ...

It looks like you (and others) are getting their wish TQM. As BH said he is having less and less to do with things now. I do not, however, share your enthusiasm to see the back of Petrie.

[blackpoolhibs]

I believe you BH. :greengrin

Shucks. :embarrass

[hibs0666]

Jeezo one bad result and the vultures are back he has signed a few and they need a bit of time to gel into a team. Yesterdays result was worrying that is for sure however a bit of patience is required.

I do find it pretty incredible and very tiresome that a hard core of vultures/panic merchants revel in taking a pop at their own club every time there is a setback.

[hibs0666]

Although some folk will not believe me, i shall be in my seat wishing the very same thing next Saturday.

I don't see the point in ripping the pish out of the club Sunday to Friday and then 'supporting' it for a couple of hours on a Saturday.

[darwenhibby]

I don't see the point in ripping the pish out of the club Sunday to Friday and then 'supporting' it for a couple of hours on a Saturday.

He is only giving his opinion from afar.

BH will be there on Saturday supporting the team as he alaways does.

I am gutted that I am on holiday, otherwise I would be travelling up with him.

I can honestly say there is no bigger hibby in Lancashire than BH

[mickki40]

Usually the singing section get right behind the team come hell or high water. It was absolutely quiet yesterday from the Killie 2nd going in. I am sure we will be back against St Mirren, however, even the die hards are now questioning what's going on at pitch level. David Stevens is 6ft 5in, and can not head a ball. Communication with each other was shoddy, at one point Agogo and Palsson arguing way too long for my liking. It could have been worse had Stacky not made a few good stops. I fully can appreciate that new teams need to gel etc. What I can not excuse is Hibs players lacking the very basics. E.G. not going to meet opposition players when they have the ball. Killie played us off the park by closing us down very quickly EVERY TIME. we maybe closed them down about 10% of the time. we let them have space to play. They must have thought they were dreaming with the space we gave them. If Hibs do not learn from this game they may as well close shop for the season and re-open in the first division next season. It really was a lacklustre display. I rarely miss a game home or away, I can't for the life of me remember such a bad performance. Usually I take the posotives from a defeat and see glimpses that will come good in future games. On this performance I could not find any hope that we will turn things round in the very near future. THE ONLY WAY IS UP AFTER THAT PASH. We could not possibly get worse...errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr GGTTH

[Expecting Rain]

Usually the singing section get right behind the team come hell or high water. It was absolutely quiet yesterday from the Killie 2nd going in. I am sure we will be back against St Mirren, however, even the die hards are now questioning what's going on at pitch level. David Stevens is 6ft 5in, and can not head a ball. Communication with each other was shoddy, at one point Agogo and Palsson arguing way too long for my liking. It could have been worse had Stacky not made a few good stops. I fully can appreciate that new teams need to gel etc. What I can not excuse is Hibs players lacking the very basics. E.G. not going to meet opposition players when they have the ball. Killie played us off the park by closing us down very quickly EVERY TIME. we maybe closed them down about 10% of the time. we let them have space to play. They must have thought they were dreaming with the space we gave them. If Hibs do not learn from this game they may as well close shop for the season and re-open in the first division next season. It really was a lacklustre display. I rarely miss a game home or away, I can't for the life of me remember such a bad performance. Usually I take the posotives from a defeat and see glimpses that will come good in future games. On this performance I could not find any hope that we will turn things round in the very near future. THE ONLY WAY IS UP AFTER THAT PASH. We could not possibly get worse...errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr GGTTH

Sums it up for me.

[Andy74]

CC - when it gets to the WORST ever home form - yes.

RP - As you know, I've wanted RP away for some time ...

Why does that one stat or record matter more than others? We also had the best defensive record for decades up to that Christmas.

Here's some other stats though.

From Hughes's 52 games we Won 19 Drew 12 Lost 21

Hughes's Win Percentage was 36.5% Loss Percentage 40.4%

From Calderwood's 33 games we have Won 9 Drawn 6 Lost 18

Calderwood's Win Percentage is 27.3% Loss Percentage 54.5%

Hughes's teams scored 80 goals and lost 78

Goals Scored 1.5 per game Goals Lost 1.5 per game

Caldewrood's teams scored 32 goals and lost 52

Goals Scored 1 per game Goals Lost 1.6 per game


In terms of entertainment or otherwise under Hughes we scored six goals once, five goals twice and three goals seven times.

Calderwood's team has scored three goals once.

Hughes's teams lost six goals once, five once, four twice and three seven times over 52 games.

Calderwood has lost four goals three times and three goals four times over 33 games.


If Hughes deserved to go then Calderwood is more than a little fortunate to still be anywhere close to a job!

[SaudiHibby]

Sir Tom is going nowhere. Petrie is going nowhere. Because of that it is time for us to allow a manager to learn his trade with us along with a bunch of youngsters who undoubtedly have a future in the game. Why oh why must we always change managers when things get sticky. It has not worked to date so lets try it again :confused:

[JimBHibees]

It's not one bad result. Calderwood's record as Hibs manager is shocking. All the defeats can't just be "bad days at the office".

Not denying that however he is our manager and he has brought in new guys and no doubt will bring in more with differing ranges of fitness and need to be allowed time to bed in properly.

[Part/Time Supporter]

If Hughes deserved to go then Calderwood is more than a little fortunate to still be anywhere close to a job!

Which takes no account whatsoever of the relative positions in which the team was inherited. Hughes inherited a top six team that had a bit of money to spend after selling Fletcher and Jones, albeit they had to be replaced. He brought in Stokes and the team functioned well for a while with Stokes scoring plenty of goals. The team broke down after this, however, and Hughes made little or no constructive effort to remedy this. Stokes was then sold and he was up **** creek without a paddle.

Calderwood then inherited a team bottom of the league, which Hughes himself admitted would need to be broken up at the end of the season!

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't see the point in ripping the pish out of the club Sunday to Friday and then 'supporting' it for a couple of hours on a Saturday.

When hibs are doing well, i talk about how well we are doing, or have you missed that?

Why would i talk on a Hibs club message board about how well we are doing, when we are clearly not?

[JimBHibees]

How much patience can a man have Jim? Pub team managers show more logic, there`s no sense of balance, urgency or creativity, the thrashing yesterday was no surprise on the back of the extremely fortunate clean sheet and victory at Inverness, we haven`t moved on from Calderwoods managerial debut at Pittodrie.

Churchy, cant agree with that. Personally didnt see that coming at all. Though we were carrying a bit of luck against ICT so did they. A reasonable draw against Sunderland albeit a friendly was a positive sign. We need experience at the back big time, the injury to O'Hanlon is unfortunate in its timing as losing an awful first goal yesterday obviously affected the young defence's confidence. Would bring in Reynolds for left centre back if we can. We need to give the guy time to allow the new players time to 1) get up to speed fitness wise and 2) get used to playing together. If we look the same shambles at Xmas I will agree with you however there is massive change going on at the moment and getting rid isnt an option IMO.

[smurf]

In recent times so dire is the SPL that both Kilmarnock and Motherwell have been able to quickly put together decent sides. This summer Killie at one point were very short of players...

There can be no excuses from anyone at Hibernian.

However, now is not the time to judge however worrying the trends...

[Part/Time Supporter]

How much patience can a man have Jim? Pub team managers show more logic, there`s no sense of balance, urgency or creativity, the thrashing yesterday was no surprise on the back of the extremely fortunate clean sheet and victory at Inverness, we haven`t moved on from Calderwoods managerial debut at Pittodrie.

Most folk on here yesterday morning were predicting Hibs would win.

[blackpoolhibs]

Most folk on here yesterday morning were predicting Hibs would win.

Last week i had Killie to win 2-1 on the prediction league. I changed it on friday to 1-1. What do i know eh?:boo hoo:

[Expecting Rain]

Churchy, cant agree with that. Personally didnt see that coming at all. Though we were carrying a bit of luck against ICT so did they. A reasonable draw against Sunderland albeit a friendly was a positive sign. We need experience at the back big time, the injury to O'Hanlon is unfortunate in its timing as losing an awful first goal yesterday obviously affected the young defence's confidence. Would bring in Reynolds for left centre back if we can. We need to give the guy time to allow the new players time to 1) get up to speed fitness wise and 2) get used to playing together. If we look the same shambles at Xmas I will agree with you however there is massive change going on at the moment and getting rid isnt an option IMO.

Possibly O`Hanlon would have made a big difference, nonetheless the manager doesn`t help his situation by failing to recognise the importance of playing players in their proper positions or being unable to motivate what he has to be the best they can be, the Inverness game was as significant as the Aberdeen game which preceded the Rangers game ( under John Hughes ) a fortunate 2-0 victory followed by a 4-1 thrashing at ER, the talk all week was about the clean sheet ignoring the three penalty claims and the two absolute sitters that Caley missed, that in itself suggested we learned nothing, the friendly in my opinion was irrelevant, a means of obtaining fitness and organisation, both amongst other things were sadly lacking yesterday.
Calderwood did inherit a mess and does seem measured and calm in his response to what is happening and obviously can`t be entirely blamed for the present circumstances but he must take some responsibility for our inability to defend in whatever sector of the pitch, we can`t have a constant revolving door of managers i accept but we were beaten by a team who couldn`t beat anybody recently, it must be an oppositions players dream to play against Hibs at the moment, Dayton could turn out to be another Morais looks good against us. I hope your patience is rewarded, then we`ll both be happy!:greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Possibly O`Hanlon would have made a big difference, nonetheless the manager doesn`t help his situation by failing to recognise the importance of playing players in their proper positions or being unable to motivate what he has to be the best they can be, the Inverness game was as significant as the Aberdeen game which preceded the Rangers game ( under John Hughes ) a fortunate 2-0 victory followed by a 4-1 thrashing at ER, the talk all week was about the clean sheet ignoring the three penalty claims and the two absolute sitters that Caley missed, that in itself suggested we learned nothing, the friendly in my opinion was irrelevant, a means of obtaining fitness and organisation, both amongst other things were sadly lacking yesterday.
Calderwood did inherit a mess and does seem measured and calm in his response to what is happening and obviously can`t be entirely blamed for the present circumstances but he must take some responsibility for our inability to defend in whatever sector of the pitch, we can`t have a constant revolving door of managers i accept but we were beaten by a team who couldn`t beat anybody recently, it must be an oppositions players dream to play against Hibs at the moment, Dayton could turn out to be another Morais looks good against us. I hope your patience is rewarded, then we`ll both be happy!:greengrin

Agreed. :greengrin

[Speedway]

Although some folk will not believe me, i shall be in my seat wishing the very same thing next Saturday.

You've only bought the one ticket for yourself for the game. You know full well it's going to be a low crowd on Saturday. Why don't you buy 7 or 8 tickets for yourself and put money into the club like a real supporter would?


My point i suppose is, it was not a chore to make the effort to get down to easter road, whatever the score. I remember walking back to the car after that 4-4 game against Dundee thinking i cant wait for next week.

Yes there were some stinkers, but by Monday we were back onside champing at the bit for Saturday to come, well i was it was exciting to be a Hibby.

I could accept crap football if we were winning, i'm sure crowds would return too. Although watching a disjointed side, with little cohesion or idea being pumped by Kilmarnock is just not acceptable.

What a lot of folk seem to be dismissing about yesterday, is that could have been 7 or 8, we were that bad.

It could always have been 5, 6, 7 or 8 if all the chances created in a game went in. It wasn't though it was 4 and the main reason it was 4 was two woeful truly poor performances from our CHs which I excuse Stephens for but not Hanlon because of the number of senior appearances he's made now; and the lack of hunger/mobility/ability from our midfield.

Case in point, Lewis takes the ball forward, gets robbed on the edge of the Killie box and rather than going 'Right ya bas!!! that's my ****** ball' and going screaming back after the player, he takes a hop and a skip and looks to the sky before turning round and slowly trotting back up the pitch. That's not ability, that's attitude.

When Hnalon scored his OG, Hugh Hefner or whatever the new Killie guy is called had already drifted in between him and Stephens with neither of them picking him up or even seeing him there. He repeated the trick for Killie's fourth - successfully. That's not attitude, that's ability.

I'm not panicking yet because CC stayed faithful to those who won in Inverness. He's now learned that he's needs to play his best 11 if they're available. Ozzy and O'Hanlon will start on Saturday.

[IWasThere2016]

Why does that one stat or record matter more than others? We also had the best defensive record for decades up to that Christmas.

So you want CC out .. and RP?

[Gettin' Auld]

So you want CC out .. and RP?
Play them both at Centre Back........Can't be any worse than what we have at present!!

:wink:

[Cropley10]

Aberdeen 4 Hibs 2 Calderwoods first game in charge, we haven`t progressed and are still being fed with the same old cliches in the post match analysis. Let`s get down to basics, we don`t have a right back, we have a centre half who has neither pace or positional sense and for his height doesn`t win much or threaten in the air, we have two left footed uncreative midfield players in the middle, a right footed player wide on the left and an impact player on the right wing and finally a centre forward who needs bigger shoulders to carry the rest of the team through the present campaign before he decides to join either Riordan in China or Miller in Australia.
Team wise we look like we`ve left off from the end of last season, shapeless, lack lustre, uncompetitive, unimaginative and heading towards the first division to emerge like Dundee, once a big club with an empty stadium, agents must be falling over themselves to contact Hibs in the transfer window, where do we go from here?
We could start by playing players in their proper position, players who are fit, players who show urgency for the duration of the match and perhaps even add a bit of real quality by signing a proper right back and someone who can pass the ball in the centre of midfield.

:agree:

But we had Booth, Hanlon, Murray, Stevenson and O'Connor playing for us and they're all Hibees.

All part of the new strategy, as I understand it.

[GoldenMeerkat]

On the despise stakes I think Calderwood is a close second to Petrie at the moment, the moustached one is ruining the club.
Where has the season ticket monies gone? (ok its not much when you look at attendances!), Crabbies sponsorship monies?, Puma's sponsorship monies? none of it is being reinvested on the team. The walrus faced chimp is sucking the life from Easter Road aswell as the finances. And when looking for a scapegoat he sacks the managers who have had pennies on transfer fees and wages to work with!

*and breathe*


*rant over*


:monkey:

[Cropley10]

On the despise stakes I think Calderwood is a close second to Petrie at the moment, the moustached one is ruining the club.
Where has the season ticket monies gone? (ok its not much when you look at attendances!), Crabbies sponsorship monies?, Puma's sponsorship monies? none of it is being reinvested on the team. The walrus faced chimp is sucking the life from Easter Road aswell as the finances. And when looking for a scapegoat he sacks the managers who have had pennies on transfer fees and wages to work with!

*and breathe*


*rant over*


:monkey:

I reckon Petrie has pocketted all of that cash.

[blackpoolhibs]

I reckon Petrie has pocketted all of that cash.

:greengrin Yip, the managers get nothing to spend. :faf:

[GoldenMeerkat]

I reckon Petrie has pocketted all of that cash.

Well thats what I heard through the grapevine from Pat Stanton.


:monkey:

[StevieC]

Calderwood's record as Hibs manager is shocking. All the defeats can't just be "bad days at the office".

No, most of them were down to players wishing they were somewhere else and not trying a leg.

As far as I'm concerned CC has my full backing to try and put a squad together by the end of August and I'll then start judging him on the performances of the team between then and the end of the season.

I dont expect everything to click into place with players straight away, players need time to get to know the strengths of those around them and then start playing to those strengths. If by Christmas I cant see improvements in team performances I will start to worry, and if it continues into 2012 then I will then join the "doom and gloom" brigade.

Until that time though, I'll support the team, the manager and the club.

[3pm]

And who might "next" be?

No idea. Do you? Personally, I'd go for someone from the 3rd division because it'll be far cheaper to lay off than the long list of jokers we've had to get rid of in the last 3-4 years.

[JimBHibees]

No, most of them were down to players wishing they were somewhere else and not trying a leg.

As far as I'm concerned CC has my full backing to try and put a squad together by the end of August and I'll then start judging him on the performances of the team between then and the end of the season.

I dont expect everything to click into place with players straight away, players need time to get to know the strengths of those around them and then start playing to those strengths. If by Christmas I cant see improvements in team performances I will start to worry, and if it continues into 2012 then I will then join the "doom and gloom" brigade.

Until that time though, I'll support the team, the manager and the club.

Good post, totally agree.

[Wellbankhibby]

Lets not kid ourselves I watched the game yesterday, I wont say match because we were no match for Killie. When will this board see sense and get shot of Mr Calderwood. The man does not have a clue, you can see by his body language that he is not interested in us. Even when he is interviewed he talks very little sense. I have watched Hibs for over 50 years and this team is without a doubt the worst. No full backs no Commanding centre halfs No Midfield and very little up front. We are a shambles and a laughing stock. Without a doubt we will be relegated unless action is taken now. FOR GODS SAKE GET RID OF HIM NOW. :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

Explain the body language bit for me please?

Is it the way he scratches behind his ear?
Is this a sure sign of non-commitment?

[Hamish]

Ah... The monthly Worst Ever Hibs team thread - (now merged)

They are poor, nobody would argue there.

I don't go back as far as 50 years, but there have been many sides worse than the team I saw yesterday.

[Prawn Sandwich]

Colin Calderwood's record so far.

Won 9 (25.71%)
Drawn 6 (17.14%)
Lost 20 (57.14%)
Goals Scored 33
Goals Lost 55

Say's it all really. £350,000 compensation from Birmingham City for him? I drive him to Birmingham for nothing.

[Craig_in_Prague]

No, most of them were down to players wishing they were somewhere else and not trying a leg.

As far as I'm concerned CC has my full backing to try and put a squad together by the end of August and I'll then start judging him on the performances of the team between then and the end of the season.

I dont expect everything to click into place with players straight away, players need time to get to know the strengths of those around them and then start playing to those strengths. If by Christmas I cant see improvements in team performances I will start to worry, and if it continues into 2012 then I will then join the "doom and gloom" brigade.

Until that time though, I'll support the team, the manager and the club.\

He has signed what, 9,10, 12 players? Many 8 months ago.

So a couple more, and we'll be alright though?

If yesterday was us trying, then we're in a sorry state. The worse defence in the land, the most slow/lethargic, ineffective midfield I think I've ever seen........ They made ONE pass to a team mate, look like a challenge.

I was delighted when I heard of the win at ICT, mainly coz we kept a clean sheet.......But clearly it was a fluke of a win, this defence will be murdered more times this season and the 'football' we play is woeful.

Still, Hibs with a crap defence, manager, low crowds, etc... nothing new!

[Golden Bear]

According to Calderwood's, yesterday was a " terrific lesson" and "good experience" Have we learned nothing from all the other trouncings we've had under Calderwood's?

:agree:

It's all part of the learning process.:rolleyes: The trouble is we'll be at the bottom of the class with no prospects unless things change very quickly.

[Arch Stanton]

God, what a load of defeatist miseryguts!

Some people might be impressed with the marshalling of wee debating points into a condemnation of CC, but it bores me stupid.

CC has got some things wrong but so what, he is getting more things right than he is getting wrong.

But more importantly, he is playing a blinder the way he has been using the transfer window (as he did the last one where it is near impossible to achieve very much).

I mean to say, leaving it a month into the season to finish putting his squad together has it's implications - do people really not realise that? (Both the upside and downside I mean!)

[Wellbankhibby]

Ah... The monthly Worst Ever Hibs team thread - (now merged)

They are poor, nobody would argue there.

I don't go back as far as 50 years, but there have been many sides worse than the team I saw yesterday.

Well I can go back 50 years and in my opinion I have NEVER saw a worse team than Yesterday. Can you please tell me the positive things you see in CCs Team. There is nothing. I dont like to keep on moaning but we are a disgrace under his Lack of Leadership. I could take over the team tomorrow and acheive more and Im being serious.

[The Falcon]

No idea. Do you? Personally, I'd go for someone from the 3rd division because it'll be far cheaper to lay off than the long list of jokers we've had to get rid of in the last 3-4 years.

Not a clue. But while I am unhappy at the level of performance I am prepared to give Calderwood and the players time to sort out.

[The Falcon]

I reckon Petrie has pocketted all of that cash.


you cant resist :greengrin

[Arch Stanton]

Well I can go back 50 years and in my opinion I have NEVER saw a worse team than Yesterday. Can you please tell me the positive things you see in CCs Team. There is nothing. I dont like to keep on moaning but we are a disgrace under his Lack of Leadership. I could take over the team tomorrow and acheive more and Im being serious.

Course you are, but don't get all het up about it - the nurse will be round with your hot chocolate in a wee while. :agree:

[Wellbankhibby]

Explain the body language bit for me please?

Is it the way he scratches behind his ear?
Is this a sure sign of non-commitment?

The Body language of CC is similar to the team Lethargic and couldn't care less about our club. The quicker some of our supporters realise how bad this man is the better. He has a dreadful record as manager of Hibs, he shows no leadership qualities and although he is still with us anyone with any sense knows he does not want to be with us. The quicker he goes the better or we will be in the first division next season that is a certainty if he is still with us. I cant for the life of me understand the board or many of our supporters who think he is right for this job.

[Wellbankhibby]

Course you are, but don't get all het up about it - the nurse will be round with your hot chocolate in a wee while. :agree:

Dont like hot chocolate but send the nurse that would be appreciated while your at it tell her to have a look at you as well if you cant see whats wrong with the team at your age you will never learn. Tut Tut :rolleyes:

[Sammy7nil]

God, what a load of defeatist miseryguts!

Some people might be impressed with the marshalling of wee debating points into a condemnation of CC, but it bores me stupid.

CC has got some things wrong but so what, he is getting more things right than he is getting wrong.

But more importantly, he is playing a blinder the way he has been using the transfer window (as he did the last one where it is near impossible to achieve very much).

I mean to say, leaving it a month into the season to finish putting his squad together has it's implications - do people really not realise that? (Both the upside and downside I mean!)

I am truly baffled by this post :rolleyes: However the bit in bold is Bolllocks he has lost over 50% of games in charge

[hibsbollah]

The Body language of CC is similar to the team Lethargic and couldn't care less about our club. The quicker some of our supporters realise how bad this man is the better. He has a dreadful record as manager of Hibs, he shows no leadership qualities and although he is still with us anyone with any sense knows he does not want to be with us. The quicker he goes the better or we will be in the first division next season that is a certainty if he is still with us. I cant for the life of me understand the board or many of our supporters who think he is right for this job.

Lethargic? What, he looks sleepy?
This body language thing mystifies me. My boss told me off for crossing my arms the other day. Apparently its 'aggressive'. Maybe colin and I should go on a course.

[The Voice Of Reason]

God, what a load of defeatist miseryguts!

Some people might be impressed with the marshalling of wee debating points into a condemnation of CC, but it bores me stupid.

CC has got some things wrong but so what, he is getting more things right than he is getting wrong.

But more importantly, he is playing a blinder the way he has been using the transfer window (as he did the last one where it is near impossible to achieve very much).

I mean to say, leaving it a month into the season to finish putting his squad together has it's implications - do people really not realise that? (Both the upside and downside I mean!)

The bit in bold - care to elaborate on what you think he is getting right ?!?!?

His record is nothing short of woeful - it is a results based business after all !

[Wellbankhibby]

Lethargic? What, he looks sleepy?
This body language thing mystifies me. My boss told me off for crossing my arms the other day. Apparently its 'aggressive'. Maybe colin and I should go on a course.

If you want to be pedantic your Boss is wrong, crossing your arms is NOT aggressive its Defensive something in common with our team. Sorry to say Nobody in their right mind could defend the team after watching that performance. Put the youth team on at least we might see some effort. :wink:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Lethargic? What, he looks sleepy?
This body language thing mystifies me. My boss told me off for crossing my arms the other day. Apparently its 'aggressive'. Maybe colin and I should go on a course.

:agree::agree:



As for this thread, meh, why were we not discussing this prior to yesterday? Ah, that's right, because we were optimistic for this season with the new signings, the improved communications from the club and the win over ICT. One defeat later, regardless of how severe, and suddenly we're in crisis whilst watching the worst team ever. Balls. Yammish behaviour at best.

[Wellbankhibby]

:agree::agree:



As for this thread, meh, why were we not discussing this prior to yesterday? Ah, that's right, because we were optimistic for this season with the new signings, the improved communications from the club and the win over ICT. One defeat later, regardless of how severe, and suddenly we're in crisis whilst watching the worst team ever. Balls. Yammish behaviour at best.

If you read all the threads it is common knowledge that we have been discussing the future of Mr calderwood. I will always back the Manager and the team but he lost all my respect and support when he failed to inform the True Fans of his intentions. Nothing has changed regards his attitude if he gets the opportunity to go he will be off so dont kid yourself. He had a little respite with the win at cally and although it was a welcome result its the first time we have won their in the league. I have saw nothing that excites me of the new signings. Garry O Connor is trying hard but does not look fit, Ivan Sproul is a shadow of his former self and I will reserve judgement on the others. it is very easy to sign new players its moulding them into a good team. In my opinion CC does not have a clue regards this. If your happy watching that dross then good on you and as for Yammish behaviour I would say that is very appropriate to yourself if you like to watch that Rubbish. :confused:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

If you read all the threads it is common knowledge that we have been discussing the future of Mr calderwood. I will always back the Manager and the team but he lost all my respect and support when he failed to inform the True Fans of his intentions. Nothing has changed regards his attitude if he gets the opportunity to go he will be off so dont kid yourself. He had a little respite with the win at cally and although it was a welcome result its the first time we have won their in the league. I have saw nothing that excites me of the new signings. Garry O Connor is trying hard but does not look fit, Ivan Sproul is a shadow of his former self and I will reserve judgement on the others. it is very easy to sign new players its moulding them into a good team. In my opinion CC does not have a clue regards this. If your happy watching that dross then good on you and as for Yammish behaviour I would say that is very appropriate to yourself if you like to watch that Rubbish. :confused:

So you back the manager as "always" but you think he hasn't got a clue?

You'll also reserve judgement on the new signings yet none of them excite you?

It isn't very easy to sign new players and it's far more difficult to mould them into a good team after only 3 competitive games this season. Should we not reserve judgement on that for a little while to give the man a chance? I think people have all too conveniently forgot just how eye-wateringly rotten we were on the pitch last year, how much the club was being bled dry by "footballers" who were a) as useful as an appendix and/or b) did not want to play for this club and evidently displayed that week in, week out.

You either back a manager or you don't, it's as simple as that. CC took over a club that was in *REMOVED*turmoil and in terms of squad personnel (which is all I'm judging him on at present), we have a squad that is far stronger in quality and in depth than what it was when he took over. His first choice XI now is markedly different to what he had last season. He's also trying to instill a new mentality and culture that has been missing the past few years whilst ridding this club of the crippling malaise it suffered at the same time.

Aye, it would be great if he'd managed all this and led us to a 15 game unbeaten run at the same time but if he had I'm sure he'd have far more than Birmingham and Notts Forest bargaining for his services.

Lets think about it objectively for a minute, should we sack Calderwood now and bring in yet another new man who could quite feasibly take one look at the team and it's new signings and decide to ship them out and bring his own players in? There wouldn't be a corner for us to finally turn because we'd be on a *REMOVED*roundabout like we have been for so long. He's trying to give us a bit of direction, a bit of guidance and a bit of quality.

Was it just me at half-time on Sunday who thought he should bring on another striker, go two up top and replace Stevenson or Thornhill with a bit more steel into the bargain? I'm sure there was more than me thinking that and he went and did it. You could argue we should have started with that team but I would suggest match fitness of the new arrivals put paid to any idea of them playing from the beginning.

The very fact that in spite of a poor run of results since he took over that he has retained the respect and admiration of the playing staff and the board of directors speaks volumes for me.

And before you pipe up, Andy74, Hughes made an erse of it and it's Calderwood that's spent the past 10 months diligently rectifying that.

Lastly, why were you not posting this last week after our win at ICT, wellbankhibby?

[Mikey]

I will always back the Manager and the team but he lost all my respect and support when..........

:crazy:

[Sammy7nil]

So you back the manager as "always" but you think he hasn't got a clue?

You'll also reserve judgement on the new signings yet none of them excite you?

It isn't very easy to sign new players and it's far more difficult to mould them into a good team after only 3 competitive games this season. Should we not reserve judgement on that for a little while to give the man a chance? I think people have all too conveniently forgot just how eye-wateringly rotten we were on the pitch last year, how much the club was being bled dry by "footballers" who were a) as useful as an appendix and/or b) did not want to play for this club and evidently displayed that week in, week out.

You either back a manager or you don't, it's as simple as that. CC took over a club that was in *REMOVED* turmoil and in terms of squad personnel (which is all I'm judging him on at present), we have a squad that is far stronger in quality and in depth than what it was when he took over. His first choice XI now is markedly different to what he had last season. He's also trying to instill a new mentality and culture that has been missing the past few years whilst ridding this club of the crippling malaise it suffered at the same time.

Aye, it would be great if he'd managed all this and led us to a 15 game unbeaten run at the same time but if he had I'm sure he'd have far more than Birmingham and Notts Forest bargaining for his services.

Lets think about it objectively for a minute, should we sack Calderwood now and bring in yet another new man who could quite feasibly take one look at the team and it's new signings and decide to ship them out and bring his own players in? There wouldn't be a corner for us to finally turn because we'd be on a *REMOVED* roundabout like we have been for so long. He's trying to give us a bit of direction, a bit of guidance and a bit of quality.

Was it just me at half-time on Sunday who thought he should bring on another striker, go two up top and replace Stevenson or Thornhill with a bit more steel into the bargain? I'm sure there was more than me thinking that and he went and did it. You could argue we should have started with that team but I would suggest match fitness of the new arrivals put paid to any idea of them playing from the beginning.

The very fact that in spite of a poor run of results since he took over that he has retained the respect and admiration of the playing staff and the board of directors speaks volumes for me.

And before you pipe up, Andy74, Hughes made an erse of it and it's Calderwood that's spent the past 10 months diligently rectifying that.

Lastly, why were you not posting this last week after our win at ICT, wellbankhibby?

I agree we have to stop somewhere and cannot just sack manager after manager it is just a pity we have to stick by Colin, a man that has little respect for our club by dodging questions rather than screaming he is FULLY committed and happy here. Your post has several flaws do we ignore his record in the previous THIRTY odd games, is he really so bad he cannot motivate any players that were here before he arrived?

Hibs are a shambles and there has been NO improvement since colin arrived I want him to do well unfortunately every thing he has done to date screams I cannot turn this around and IMHO we will be bottom 6 again in a VERY ordinary league.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I agree we have to stop somewhere and cannot just sack manager after manager it is just a pity we have to stick by Colin, a man that has little respect for our club by dodging questions rather than screaming he is FULLY committed and happy here. Your post has several flaws do we ignore his record in the previous THIRTY odd games, is he really so bad he cannot motivate any players that were here before he arrived?

Hibs are a shambles and there has been NO improvement since colin arrived I want him to do well unfortunately every thing he has done to date screams I cannot turn this around and IMHO we will be bottom 6 again in a VERY ordinary league.

We don't ignore the previous thirty games, no. And whilst I agree that that is a bit of a concern, I'll put my neck on the block here and state that if Calderwood is still in charge, we'll be in the top 4 by the turn of the year. And you can quote me on that :greengrin

[Sammy7nil]

We don't ignore the previous thirty games, no. And whilst I agree that that is a bit of a concern, I'll put my neck on the block here and state that if Calderwood is still in charge, we'll be in the top 4 by the turn of the year. And you can quote me on that :greengrin

I hope we are and I can quote you :greengrin

[Hibeesb0unc3]

I don't think people should be judging our season performances yet. There is still about 2 weeks to make more signings so that elusive right back could be on there way soon. Plus add to that the fact that all our subs were making their first appearances for the club meant that getting beat was a likely result. It takes time for a new squad to gel together and start playing cohesively especially one that has seen probably 10+ players arrive in just over 6 months.


As for CC record as our manager its not great but this is only his first full season in charge. When he took over hibs had only won 5 games in their last 25 games, with hughes being in charge of 24 of these games and only winning 4. IF we had continued that form over the whole of last season we would have gone down but thankfully CC made some decent signings in January and hibs went 7 games unbeaten and finished about 15 points above hamilton. yes there has been some poor results under CC but it has been the same with every manager. Hughes lost 5-1 away at st Johnstone, Mowbary had a terrible away record with us including only 4 away in one season.

[bawheid]

Why does that one stat or record matter more than others? We also had the best defensive record for decades up to that Christmas.

Here's some other stats though.

From Hughes's 52 games we Won 19 Drew 12 Lost 21

Hughes's Win Percentage was 36.5% Loss Percentage 40.4%

From Calderwood's 33 games we have Won 9 Drawn 6 Lost 18

Calderwood's Win Percentage is 27.3% Loss Percentage 54.5%

Hughes's teams scored 80 goals and lost 78

Goals Scored 1.5 per game Goals Lost 1.5 per game

Caldewrood's teams scored 32 goals and lost 52

Goals Scored 1 per game Goals Lost 1.6 per game


In terms of entertainment or otherwise under Hughes we scored six goals once, five goals twice and three goals seven times.

Calderwood's team has scored three goals once.

Hughes's teams lost six goals once, five once, four twice and three seven times over 52 games.

Calderwood has lost four goals three times and three goals four times over 33 games.


If Hughes deserved to go then Calderwood is more than a little fortunate to still be anywhere close to a job!

Andy - I agree with you, I wouldn't have got rid of Hughes either, but FFS give it a rest. Is it constructive to use Hughes' record as a stick to beat Calderwood with? What are we to do now? Sack Calderwood and get....who...?? You're better than knee-jerk reactions to a defeat that has been fairly typical of Hibs over the past 20 years!

Mowbray's team lost 4-0 and 3-0 in Aberdeen, 3-0 at home to Livingston, 3-1 at Kilmarnock, 3-0 at Inverness and capitulated time and time again at Tynecastle. Sunday was typical Hibs.


Well I can go back 50 years and in my opinion I have NEVER saw a worse team than Yesterday. Can you please tell me the positive things you see in CCs Team. There is nothing. I dont like to keep on moaning but we are a disgrace under his Lack of Leadership. I could take over the team tomorrow and acheive more and Im being serious.

:faf:

One of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read.

You've got to be, haven't you? Yeah, you definitely are. :agree:

[Arch Stanton]

The bit in bold - care to elaborate on what you think he is getting right ?!?!?

His record is nothing short of woeful - it is a results based business after all !

I already did elaborate, the way he is putting a squad together, which is pretty important as far as getting results. The fact that it is still work in progress has been well explained and makes a lot of sense to me if not to you.

While I realise that there are those who can come to perfectly reasoned judgements based solely on results, but there are others, like myself, who base their judgement on what they see watching the game and in my view there is not much that still needs done to make that into a really good team. (Even if his starting eleven just didn't cut the mustard - lessons to be learned as he said.)


And anyway, it's not just results that are important when judging CC, apparently his posture is all wrong as well.

[KeithTheHibby]

The stayaway fans were blamed for costing us the best part of a hundred grand against Celtic, this incumbent has to be liable for a few quid too.

Another typical anti CC post from yourself.

You need to let it go, he is staying, end of!!!

As for the pointless dig I believe that there was not much more CC could do on Sunday. He gave the players who had won at Inverness the chance to do the business again. Added to fact that Osbourne, Airey and Agogo were either new or not match fit I reckon he got the team which started spot on.

CC cannot be held accountable for utterly amateur defending and to his credit he did change it at half-time.

Give it a rest, you are getting boring now.

[Andy74]

Another typical anti CC post from yourself.

You need to let it go, he is staying, end of!!!

As for the pointless dig I believe that there was not much more CC could do on Sunday. He gave the players who had won at Inverness the chance to do the business again. Added to fact that Osbourne, Airey and Agogo were either new or not match fit I reckon he got the team which started spot on.

CC cannot be held accountable for utterly amateur defending and to his credit he did change it at half-time.

Give it a rest, you are getting boring now.

Maybe some find the support of CC boring now?

It's a messageboard and plenty people have different opinions, so there's no reason to tell people to give their views a rest or that thier views are boring because they are different form yours.

[down the slope]

Another typical anti CC post from yourself.

You need to let it go, he is staying, end of!!!

As for the pointless dig I believe that there was not much more CC could do on Sunday. He gave the players who had won at Inverness the chance to do the business again. Added to fact that Osbourne, Airey and Agogo were either new or not match fit I reckon he got the team which started spot on.

CC cannot be held accountable for utterly amateur defending and to his credit he did change it at half-time.

Give it a rest, you are getting boring now.

If he is not accountable for the defending who is ?, he was a defender , he should know how to organize a defence , we have the worst defence in the league. We now have four centre forwards and no right back ! shades of Hughes and his keeper signings.

[JimBHibees]

If he is not accountable for the defending who is ?, he was a defender , he should know how to organize a defence , we have the worst defence in the league. We now have four centre forwards and no right back ! shades of Hughes and his keeper signings.

The players who were meant to be defending. Right back will be filled no doubt and hopefully when the new players are given more than 5 minutes to settle in and get fit we will really see where we are this season.

[Dashing Bob S]

So you back the manager as "always" but you think he hasn't got a clue?

You'll also reserve judgement on the new signings yet none of them excite you?

It isn't very easy to sign new players and it's far more difficult to mould them into a good team after only 3 competitive games this season. Should we not reserve judgement on that for a little while to give the man a chance? I think people have all too conveniently forgot just how eye-wateringly rotten we were on the pitch last year, how much the club was being bled dry by "footballers" who were a) as useful as an appendix and/or b) did not want to play for this club and evidently displayed that week in, week out.

You either back a manager or you don't, it's as simple as that. CC took over a club that was in *REMOVED*turmoil and in terms of squad personnel (which is all I'm judging him on at present), we have a squad that is far stronger in quality and in depth than what it was when he took over. His first choice XI now is markedly different to what he had last season. He's also trying to instill a new mentality and culture that has been missing the past few years whilst ridding this club of the crippling malaise it suffered at the same time.

Aye, it would be great if he'd managed all this and led us to a 15 game unbeaten run at the same time but if he had I'm sure he'd have far more than Birmingham and Notts Forest bargaining for his services.

Lets think about it objectively for a minute, should we sack Calderwood now and bring in yet another new man who could quite feasibly take one look at the team and it's new signings and decide to ship them out and bring his own players in? There wouldn't be a corner for us to finally turn because we'd be on a *REMOVED*roundabout like we have been for so long. He's trying to give us a bit of direction, a bit of guidance and a bit of quality.

Was it just me at half-time on Sunday who thought he should bring on another striker, go two up top and replace Stevenson or Thornhill with a bit more steel into the bargain? I'm sure there was more than me thinking that and he went and did it. You could argue we should have started with that team but I would suggest match fitness of the new arrivals put paid to any idea of them playing from the beginning.

The very fact that in spite of a poor run of results since he took over that he has retained the respect and admiration of the playing staff and the board of directors speaks volumes for me.

And before you pipe up, Andy74, Hughes made an erse of it and it's Calderwood that's spent the past 10 months diligently rectifying that.

Lastly, why were you not posting this last week after our win at ICT, wellbankhibby?

I don't think anybody would disagree with the first part of that statement, particularly regarding the second half of Hughes's tenure, but surely the second part of whether Calderwood's 'diligently rectified' or utterly compounded that mess is at least open to question, which is evidenced by the number of pages on this thread.

It's all about results and performances: Hughes, like Collin's and Mixu's, were decent at the start, then terrible at the end. Calderwood's, bar the Ibrox fluke, have been poor since he started and have shown no real signs, two transfer windows in, that things are kicking up a notch. I don't think he should be judged in any way differently to those previous managers.

If he started to get results I really would be delighted, I want every Hibs boss, whether they come across as a Leith housepainter or Perthshire bank manager to be successful, but he really has to start showing us something soon.

[KeithTheHibby]

Maybe some find the support of CC boring now?

It's a messageboard and plenty people have different opinions, so there's no reason to tell people to give their views a rest or that thier views are boring because they are different form yours.


BH has been banging on about getting rid of CC ever since the whole Birmingham / Forest thing came along. It is very tedious to continue to hear about it.

The majority of people were quite prepared to give CC the summer to rebuild a team before making any judgement. I was one of that majority and shall continue to support him.

[KeithTheHibby]

If he is not accountable for the defending who is ?, he was a defender , he should know how to organize a defence , we have the worst defence in the league. We now have four centre forwards and no right back ! shades of Hughes and his keeper signings.


Erm I think you will find that the team and defence are accountable for the performance you witnessed on Sunday! This was the same team that managed a victory to nill at Inverness and therefore remained loyal to these 11 players. What is so wrong with that?

Are you trying to say that CC was responsible for Hanlon having a mare at the first goal? Or Booth getting skinned at the second? Or Spoony giving away a stupid foul for the third? Or perhaps it was CC who was at fault for the whole defence having a mare at the 4th?

Regarding a RB none of the goals we have conceded this year have been anything to do with Pallson's performance, that's a fact.

[Beefster]

I don't think people should be judging our season performances yet. There is still about 2 weeks to make more signings so that elusive right back could be on there way soon. Plus add to that the fact that all our subs were making their first appearances for the club meant that getting beat was a likely result. It takes time for a new squad to gel together and start playing cohesively especially one that has seen probably 10+ players arrive in just over 6 months.


As for CC record as our manager its not great but this is only his first full season in charge. When he took over hibs had only won 5 games in their last 25 games, with hughes being in charge of 24 of these games and only winning 4. IF we had continued that form over the whole of last season we would have gone down but thankfully CC made some decent signings in January and hibs went 7 games unbeaten and finished about 15 points above hamilton. yes there has been some poor results under CC but it has been the same with every manager. Hughes lost 5-1 away at st Johnstone, Mowbary had a terrible away record with us including only 4 away in one season.

I continue to back Calderwood so this isn't about him but you do realise how many new players that the team that spanked us on Sunday has this season, right? Nine of the Hibs starting eleven on Sunday were at the club before the summer.


Maybe some find the support of CC boring now?

It's a messageboard and plenty people have different opinions, so there's no reason to tell people to give their views a rest or that thier views are boring because they are different form yours.

I can't speak for others but it's not the differing views that are boring, it's the repeated making of the same point. You don't like Calderwood, you think Hughes should still be manager, we get it.

[Expecting Rain]

There`s plenty of room for complaining on this thread, we are asked why the crowds have gone down and people are looking for an alternative route on saturday home days.
I don`t expect us to win the league or any other trophy for that matter, i hope we do reasonably well but i don`t approach the season with blind faith and to be honest i`m quite happy if there is a semblance of a performance and there are two or three players worth watching, something to talk about after the game, a bit of light.
The Celtic game was poor and thank goodness Stack saved the penalty and they didn`t get out of first gear, the Inverness game was worse, we survived three penalty claims and a couple of sitters before our eventual win, the Kilmarnock game was the lowest point regards being a fan and the boss suggested we go back to basics three games into the campaign, that remark true and honest as it was doesn`t fill me with either optimism or confidence.
It has become so desperate that we are missing Sodje according to some, we seem to be buying players that are similar or as bad as the ones we already have.
I hope that the posters who suggest that the team isn`t quite gelling yet or that the new players just need to get a bit fitter are vindicated by their faith, come back to me when it happens, i`ll be delighted to take the flack.

[Andy74]

I continue to back Calderwood so this isn't about him but you do realise how many new players that the team that spanked us on Sunday has this season, right? Nine of the Hibs starting eleven on Sunday were at the club before the summer.



I can't speak for others but it's not the differing views that are boring, it's the repeated making of the same point. You don't like Calderwood, you think Hughes should still be manager, we get it.

Repeated posts supporting Calderwood are okay though yeah?

[blackpoolhibs]

Another typical anti CC post from yourself.

You need to let it go, he is staying, end of!!!

As for the pointless dig I believe that there was not much more CC could do on Sunday. He gave the players who had won at Inverness the chance to do the business again. Added to fact that Osbourne, Airey and Agogo were either new or not match fit I reckon he got the team which started spot on.

CC cannot be held accountable for utterly amateur defending and to his credit he did change it at half-time.

Give it a rest, you are getting boring now.

I will post when i like pal, get used to it or put me on ignore. A terrible run of results from the minute he took over until February. A man who cant manage other peoples player, or his bleeding own.

How much has he cost us, well a cup defeat at Ayr for a start, no wins against the bottom 6 in fact 1 point from the 15 available, with 7 new signings, his signings.

I believe he led us from 8th when he took over to 10th in the league.

Thats a lot more than the £100k we the fans he and his boring team selections and tactics help drive away, cost the club on the opening day of the season.

Now a humping from the mighty Kilmarnock, things are just hunky dory.

You can be as bored as you like reading my posts, personally i dont care. I'd be more bored with my team getting pumped regularly than reading anything anyone posted on a message board?:rolleyes:

[flash]

Repeated posts supporting Calderwood are okay though yeah?

Eh aye because funny as it may seem some of us actually want to support the team when the going gets tough. That's what supporters do.

If CC can't get it right with his own team this season he will pay the price as anyone else would.

The supreme irony is that you constantly slate him for being unable to sort out the dogs dinner he inherited from the previous incumbent.

[flash]

I will post when i like pal, get used to it or put me on ignore. A terrible run of results from the minute he took over until February. A man who cant manage other peoples player, or his bleeding own.

How much has he cost us, well a cup defeat at Ayr for a start, no wins against the bottom 6 in fact 1 point from the 15 available, with 7 new signings, his signings.

I believe he led us from 8th when he took over to 10th in the league.

Thats a lot more than the £100k we the fans he and his boring team selections and tactics help drive away, cost the club on the opening day of the season.

Now a humping from the mighty Kilmarnock, things are just hunky dory.

You can be as bored as you like reading my posts, personally i dont care. I'd be more bored with my team getting pumped regularly than reading anything anyone posted on a message board?:rolleyes:

Doesn't it get tiring being so negative all the time?

[Sammy7nil]

I don't think people should be judging our season performances yet. There is still about 2 weeks to make more signings so that elusive right back could be on there way soon. Plus add to that the fact that all our subs were making their first appearances for the club meant that getting beat was a likely result. It takes time for a new squad to gel together and start playing cohesively especially one that has seen probably 10+ players arrive in just over 6 months.


As for CC record as our manager its not great but this is only his first full season in charge. When he took over hibs had only won 5 games in their last 25 games, with hughes being in charge of 24 of these games and only winning 4. IF we had continued that form over the whole of last season we would have gone down but thankfully CC made some decent signings in January and hibs went 7 games unbeaten and finished about 15 points above hamilton. yes there has been some poor results under CC but it has been the same with every manager. Hughes lost 5-1 away at st Johnstone, Mowbary had a terrible away record with us including only 4 away in one season.


Why do people keep saying dont judge us yet wait until the window closes.

The season started 4 weeks ago it does not start on 01/09/2011 therefore the games played to date will count o our points total and MUST be taken in to account.

[blackpoolhibs]

Eh aye because funny as it may seem some of us actually want to support the team when the going gets tough. That's what supporters do.

If CC can't get it right with his own team this season he will pay the price as anyone else would.

The supreme irony is that you constantly slate him for being unable to sort out the dogs dinner he inherited from the previous incumbent.

I do support the team, as others do like Andy who think things are badly wrong. Are you saying we cant say what we think now on a message board? Do we have to ignore what we think and toe the party line even when we don't believe what that is?

[flash]

I do support the team, as others do like Andy who think things are badly wrong. Are you saying we cant say what we think now on a message board? Do we have to ignore what we think and toe the party line even when we don't believe what that is?

There is no party line. Don't you think it's reasonable to give him some time with his own team?

[Beefster]

Repeated posts supporting Calderwood are okay though yeah?

Most of the defence that I read is in response to repeated criticism of him. By all means, criticise his tactics, hair, shoes, whatever but it would reasonable to stop framing your criticism with Hughes' record and actions.

When he took over, I said I felt he needed two years to sort out the absolute shambles he inherited. I'll give him that before I judge him either way.

[blackpoolhibs]

There is no party line. Don't you think it's reasonable to give him some time with his own team?

I refer you to this fantastic post by Andy74.

I think its perfectly fair, given the timescales afforded previous managers, to compare this to the current one.

To answer the last bit Hughes took a team that had been bumping along around sixth place for a few seasons and immediately, within one transfer window, took us on a great 7 month run. This was followed by 3 months or so of bad form at the end of the year.

At this stage the vast majority on here wanted him out. 3 months. There were also vindicating factors, key players injured, East Stand getting ripped out and the change of atmosphere at home, the worst pitches for some time against the way we were trying to play.

Of course the next season apart from a great away result at Motherwell, started poorly resuklts wise but I think other than the St Mirren and St Johnstone games we were playing okay and creating but missing chances.

Given the excellent 7 months I at least had something to point to in terms of previous capabilities at the club and at least we were creating chances.

For CC, well, we had 4 months or so of terrible results, 1 month or a bit longer of great results and then another 2 months of awful results against bottom six teams, not top six as with the end of the previous year.

This year? Not looking like much has changed.

I've given all the stas earlier, they are attrocious in terms of win percentages, goals scored, golas against, style of play is awful.

I think I am far more justitifed in my current complaints than those were when I was arguing against them on Hughes' record.

Still, all those now seem to have changed their stance to one of giving people time and allowing all sorts of excuses to be considered.

If he'd shown much to back up all this support or I enjoyed going to see his teams regardless I'd be there defending him too.

[flash]

I refer you to this fantastic post by Andy74.

I think its perfectly fair, given the timescales afforded previous managers, to compare this to the current one.

To answer the last bit Hughes took a team that had been bumping along around sixth place for a few seasons and immediately, within one transfer window, took us on a great 7 month run. This was followed by 3 months or so of bad form at the end of the year.

At this stage the vast majority on here wanted him out. 3 months. There were also vindicating factors, key players injured, East Stand getting ripped out and the change of atmosphere at home, the worst pitches for some time against the way we were trying to play.

Of course the next season apart from a great away result at Motherwell, started poorly resuklts wise but I think other than the St Mirren and St Johnstone games we were playing okay and creating but missing chances.

Given the excellent 7 months I at least had something to point to in terms of previous capabilities at the club and at least we were creating chances.

For CC, well, we had 4 months or so of terrible results, 1 month or a bit longer of great results and then another 2 months of awful results against bottom six teams, not top six as with the end of the previous year.

This year? Not looking like much has changed.

I've given all the stas earlier, they are attrocious in terms of win percentages, goals scored, golas against, style of play is awful.

I think I am far more justitifed in my current complaints than those were when I was arguing against them on Hughes' record.

Still, all those now seem to have changed their stance to one of giving people time and allowing all sorts of excuses to be considered.

If he'd shown much to back up all this support or I enjoyed going to see his teams regardless I'd be there defending him too.

Is that a no?

[marinello59]

I refer you to this fantastic post by Andy74.

I think its perfectly fair, given the timescales afforded previous managers, to compare this to the current one.

To answer the last bit Hughes took a team that had been bumping along around sixth place for a few seasons and immediately, within one transfer window, took us on a great 7 month run. This was followed by 3 months or so of bad form at the end of the year.

At this stage the vast majority on here wanted him out. 3 months. There were also vindicating factors, key players injured, East Stand getting ripped out and the change of atmosphere at home, the worst pitches for some time against the way we were trying to play.

Of course the next season apart from a great away result at Motherwell, started poorly resuklts wise but I think other than the St Mirren and St Johnstone games we were playing okay and creating but missing chances.

Given the excellent 7 months I at least had something to point to in terms of previous capabilities at the club and at least we were creating chances.

For CC, well, we had 4 months or so of terrible results, 1 month or a bit longer of great results and then another 2 months of awful results against bottom six teams, not top six as with the end of the previous year.

This year? Not looking like much has changed.

I've given all the stas earlier, they are attrocious in terms of win percentages, goals scored, golas against, style of play is awful.

I think I am far more justitifed in my current complaints than those were when I was arguing against them on Hughes' record.

Still, all those now seem to have changed their stance to one of giving people time and allowing all sorts of excuses to be considered.

If he'd shown much to back up all this support or I enjoyed going to see his teams regardless I'd be there defending him too.

Is that true? Or could it be that those who defended Hughes are now defending Calderwood and a lot of those who wanted Hughes punted now want Caldwerwood punted as well? Hughes was offered the same defence as Calderwood gets.....I have no idea if the people doing so have changed ''sides'' though.

[bawheid]

Is that true? Or could it be that those who defended Hughes are now defending Calderwood and a lot of those who wanted Hughes punted now want Caldwerwood punted as well? Hughes was offered the same defence as Calderwood gets.....I have no idea if the people doing so have changed ''sides'' though.

Yep. I'm on the side of wanting to give a Hibs manager time.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is that true? Or could it be that those who defended Hughes are now defending Calderwood and a lot of those who wanted Hughes punted now want Caldwerwood punted as well? Hughes was offered the same defence as Calderwood gets.....I have no idea if the people doing so have changed ''sides'' though.

I could name one or two who when you consider just how vocal they were in wanting rid of Hughes, are suddenly giving different views on those same things they berated Hughes for? :confused: Well not really confused, i expected it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is that a no?

Yip.

[marinello59]

I could name one or two who when you consider just how vocal they were in wanting rid of Hughes, are suddenly giving different views on those same things they berated Hughes for? :confused: Well not really confused, i expected it.

That's a bit different from them all changing their viewpoint isn't it?
Can you name any that are berating Calderwood for things they wouldn't have berated Hughes for?
I have no evidence to back it up but common sense would suggest to me that many of those who wanted Hughes given more time would also want Calderwood given more time. (Of course hibs.net and common sense don't always go together.:greengrin)

[IWasThere2016]

That's a bit different from them all changing their viewpoint isn't it?
Can you name any that are berating Calderwood for things they wouldn't have berated Hughes for?
I have no evidence to back it up but common sense would suggest to me that many of those who wanted Hughes given more time would also want Calderwood given more time. (Of course hibs.net and common sense don't always go together.:greengrin)

I expect I may be one that poor wee blackpool is fretting about as I want CC given time but wanted Yogi out.

Last season was a write-off. CC inherited a shambles - RP has said so re "the legacy" and the players openly say so.

The team needed a major overhaul.

It has got it and there's still two weeks of the window to go for more needed changes eg a RB at a minimum.

The judging of CC is only reasonable from season 11/12 onwards IMHO ..

[Arch Stanton]

Is that true? Or could it be that those who defended Hughes are now defending Calderwood and a lot of those who wanted Hughes punted now want Caldwerwood punted as well? Hughes was offered the same defence as Calderwood gets.....I have no idea if the people doing so have changed ''sides'' though.

That isn't the whole story though. I wanted rid of Hughes when it became apparent to me that he was a rubbish manager. The only good thing he ever did was sign Stokes which I can't give him any credit for since even the dumbest of managers would have figured out that was a good move.

If I become convinced that CC is rubbish then I will want rid of him too, however, it will need to be based on well-founded considerations which take into account where the club is in terms of team building.

[blackpoolhibs]

That's a bit different from them all changing their viewpoint isn't it?
Can you name any that are berating Calderwood for things they wouldn't have berated Hughes for?
I have no evidence to back it up but common sense would suggest to me that many of those who wanted Hughes given more time would also want Calderwood given more time. (Of course hibs.net and common sense don't always go together.:greengrin)

I will speak for myself here, just to clarify the situation for those who are still unsure. I backed Hughes until it became apparent he'd lost the majority of the support. He deserved the chance to address the slump, the 7 months of very good results earnt him that chance.

By the time he was sacked, he'd been given that chance. Calderwoods case is a little different in my opinion. He proved he couldnt manage Hughes team, even though Hughes managed it for a decent amount of time. There was no improvement until he managed to sign 7 players in January.

We then went on a fantastic run in February, a welcome run after his failure to do anything beforehand bar a 3-0 win at Ibrox.

Then when February finished, we again saw the lack of desire, no real pattern of play and results plummeted, apparently because Stack was injured, Who signed him?

1 point from 21 i'm told at the end of last season cost the club a lot of money, plus a drop in season ticket sales.

The new season starts and a right pumping from Kilmarnock showed me we have not progressed, we are still poor at attitude, desire and will to win. Leadership from the manager seems to me non existent, i could be wrong there, but thats how it comes across to me.

Throw in the summers shambles, will he wont he? something he could have stopped with one interview but chose not to, why?

All that says to me he should go, he should go now. I wish we'd have taken whatever was on offer in the summer, as my fear now is it will cost us to get rid of him sooner or later?

[Hibeesb0unc3]

Why do people keep saying dont judge us yet wait until the window closes.

The season started 4 weeks ago it does not start on 01/09/2011 therefore the games played to date will count o our points total and MUST be taken in to account.

I'm not disagreeing with that the season started a month ago and we should have been prepared for it so Of course they have to be taken into account. All i'm saying is that fact 3 of our new signings only made their debut against killie on sunday means hopefully once these players and hopefully some other new players get settled in and gel together then hopefully the hugely embarasing defeat on sunday is just a one-off. Like in January window the new signings did make an impact on our form to steer us away from relegation so hopefully these new signings make a similar positive impact and steer us towards the top six.

edit- i realise i use the word hopefully a lot, especially when talking about hibs:greengrin

[Wellbankhibby]

We don't ignore the previous thirty games, no. And whilst I agree that that is a bit of a concern, I'll put my neck on the block here and state that if Calderwood is still in charge, we'll be in the top 4 by the turn of the year. And you can quote me on that :greengrin

You are either pissed or demented if you think we will finish top 4 with our current manager. If the Board had backed JC and the playing staff acted professionally when he was in charge I may very well agree with you. I suggest you go and have a lie down because the only way we will be in the top 4 is in your dreams. Mind you I would be over the moon if you were right and I will be the first to apologise to you. :confused:

[Wellbankhibby]

I will post when i like pal, get used to it or put me on ignore. A terrible run of results from the minute he took over until February. A man who cant manage other peoples player, or his bleeding own.

How much has he cost us, well a cup defeat at Ayr for a start, no wins against the bottom 6 in fact 1 point from the 15 available, with 7 new signings, his signings.

I believe he led us from 8th when he took over to 10th in the league.

Thats a lot more than the £100k we the fans he and his boring team selections and tactics help drive away, cost the club on the opening day of the season.

Now a humping from the mighty Kilmarnock, things are just hunky dory.

You can be as bored as you like reading my posts, personally i dont care. I'd be more bored with my team getting pumped regularly than reading anything anyone posted on a message board?:rolleyes:


You are spot on and in my Opinion 100% correct. If in an emergency if someone requires life saving treatment you dont ignore them or they will perish. I hope the Board administer emergency first aid to our club before its too late for us. We are a disaster under CC lack of management, he has NO SKILLS in my opinion to be a Manager especially OUR Manager. :flag:

[Dashing Bob S]

I find it puzzling to see where all the unbridled optimism about Calderwood comes from. I can't see it in the poor results nor the dire performances we've experienced since he took over. It couldn't come from his mute and dithering behaviour when Forest and Brum were allegedly in pre-season pursuit of him. His previous managerial record is okay, but hardly spectacular.

Yet he seems to inspire a touching devotion in some people that he's the man for the job.

I'd love to share this enthusiasm, but I can't see it.

[Arch Stanton]

You are either pissed or demented if you think we will finish top 4 with our current manager. If the Board had backed JC and the playing staff acted professionally when he was in charge I may very well agree with you. I suggest you go and have a lie down because the only way we will be in the top 4 is in your dreams. Mind you I would be over the moon if you were right and I will be the first to apologise to you. :confused:

So, you reckon he is either pissed or demented but you would apologise to him if he wasn't - nice.

[Removed]

I find it puzzling to see where all the unbridled optimism about Calderwood comes from. I can't see it in the poor results nor the dire performances we've experienced since he took over. It couldn't come from his mute and dithering behaviour when Forest and Brum were allegedly in pre-season pursuit of him. His previous managerial record is okay, but hardly spectacular.Yet he seems to inspire a touching devotion in some people that he's the man for the job. I'd love to share this enthusiasm, but I can't see it. I'm the same, just don't get it but some folk must feel they have to back him for a myriad of reasons. I think it must be more from hope rather than evidence that he has the wherewithal to move us up the league because I can't see any.

[hibsbollah]

I find it puzzling to see where all the unbridled optimism about Calderwood comes from. I can't see it in the poor results nor the dire performances we've experienced since he took over. It couldn't come from his mute and dithering behaviour when Forest and Brum were allegedly in pre-season pursuit of him. His previous managerial record is okay, but hardly spectacular.Yet he seems to inspire a touching devotion in some people that he's the man for the job. I'd love to share this enthusiasm, but I can't see it. Its something about body language, apparently...

[Arch Stanton]

I find it puzzling to see where all the unbridled optimism about Calderwood comes from. I can't see it in the poor results nor the dire performances we've experienced since he took over. It couldn't come from his mute and dithering behaviour when Forest and Brum were allegedly in pre-season pursuit of him. His previous managerial record is okay, but hardly spectacular.

Yet he seems to inspire a touching devotion in some people that he's the man for the job.

I'd love to share this enthusiasm, but I can't see it.

Touching devotion are hardly qualities that got Hughton and McClaren their jobs and they both rate CC - or do they know squat about football do you reckon?

It's a wonder Yogi didn't apply for these Assistant Manager's jobs given that he is so highly rated and all - he would have been shoe in surely. Plus, he really needs to think about gaps in his CV.

[blackpoolhibs]

I find it puzzling to see where all the unbridled optimism about Calderwood comes from. I can't see it in the poor results nor the dire performances we've experienced since he took over. It couldn't come from his mute and dithering behaviour when Forest and Brum were allegedly in pre-season pursuit of him. His previous managerial record is okay, but hardly spectacular.

Yet he seems to inspire a touching devotion in some people that he's the man for the job.

I'd love to share this enthusiasm, but I can't see it.

He's done nothing to inspire anyone, the only reasons he is supported is because we cant go sacking another manager, or he deserves more time.

His record is awful, his tactics are awful, his team selections are awful. Its one lesson after another they fail to learn from, he should go.

[KeithTheHibby]

I will post when i like pal, get used to it or put me on ignore. A terrible run of results from the minute he took over until February. A man who cant manage other peoples player, or his bleeding own.

How much has he cost us, well a cup defeat at Ayr for a start, no wins against the bottom 6 in fact 1 point from the 15 available, with 7 new signings, his signings.

I believe he led us from 8th when he took over to 10th in the league.

Thats a lot more than the £100k we the fans he and his boring team selections and tactics help drive away, cost the club on the opening day of the season.

Now a humping from the mighty Kilmarnock, things are just hunky dory.

You can be as bored as you like reading my posts, personally i dont care. I'd be more bored with my team getting pumped regularly than reading anything anyone posted on a message board?:rolleyes:


First of all, I ain't your pal.

The problem with you BH is that once you get a bee in your bonnet about something you refuse to let it go. You were very vocal about CC during the summer and the first crap result you are on his back again.

Are you telling me that you want CC out?

Is CC a bad manager? His record elsewhere suggests not.

As for blaming him for the defeat to Ayr United, pathetic.

[KeithTheHibby]

I find it puzzling to see where all the unbridled optimism about Calderwood comes from. I can't see it in the poor results nor the dire performances we've experienced since he took over. It couldn't come from his mute and dithering behaviour when Forest and Brum were allegedly in pre-season pursuit of him. His previous managerial record is okay, but hardly spectacular.

Yet he seems to inspire a touching devotion in some people that he's the man for the job.

I'd love to share this enthusiasm, but I can't see it.


Disagree, promotions with Forest and Northampton plus 1 as assistant at Newcastle would suggest to me that his record is better than 'okay'.

[blackpoolhibs]

First of all, I ain't your pal.

The problem with you BH is that once you get a bee in your bonnet about something you refuse to let it go. You were very vocal about CC during the summer and the first crap result you are on his back again.

Are you telling me that you want CC out?

Is CC a bad manager? His record elsewhere suggests not.

As for blaming him for the defeat to Ayr United, pathetic.

Hark at her :rolleyes:, yes i want him out pal, i dont give a toss about his record anywhere else except easter road pal, and yes pal its Of course pal, Ayr United home and away was still Hughes fault, i forgot pal, How could anyone expect Calderwood to manage someone elses team to a win against a 3rd division side, especially pal someone with a record as good as Calderwood had when he arrived?

His masterstroke for that game was to play Ian Murray centre half, such a great move, Murray isstill trying to unravel his legs now.

[KeithTheHibby]

Hark at her :rolleyes:, yes i want him out pal, i dont give a toss about his record anywhere else except easter road pal, and yes pal its

Of course pal, Ayr United home and away was still Hughes fault, i forgot pal, How could anyone expect Calderwood to manage someone elses team to a win against a 3rd division side, especially pal someone with a record as good as Calderwood had when he arrived?

His masterstroke for that game was to play Ian Murray centre half, such a great move, Murray isstill trying to unravel his legs now.


Ok then I am going to humour you for a while seeing as you appear to be such a comedian.

Who would you like to see replace CC?

And do you think sacking another manager will help with stability?

Do you rate CC's signings? Are they better or worse than those that left in the summer??

I am pretty sure those are some of the questions that the board would ask before deciding on whether to sack a manager.

Over to you..

[Dashing Bob S]

Touching devotion are hardly qualities that got Hughton and McClaren their jobs and they both rate CC - or do they know squat about football do you reckon?

It's a wonder Yogi didn't apply for these Assistant Manager's jobs given that he is so highly rated and all - he would have been shoe in surely. Plus, he really needs to think about gaps in his CV.

I think we have to move on a little and get beyond blaming Yogi (or Mixu, Collins or Mowbray for that matter) for every single loss that Calderwood chalks up.

But you're right, he does inspire devotion from some people in the know. I'm not disputing that - I'm just saying that I just don't get what it is. I'm not being negative about the guy - I really would love to see him succeed. I just can't see what the attraction is.

[blackpoolhibs]

Ok then I am going to humour you for a while seeing as you appear to be such a comedian.

Who would you like to see replace CC?

And do you think sacking another manager will help with stability?

Do you rate CC's signings? Are they better or worse than those that left in the summer??

I am pretty sure those are some of the questions that the board would ask before deciding on whether to sack a manager.

Over to you..

Oh so you are my pal now. No idea who could replace him, i'd have liked Strachan but we probably couldn't afford him, and he probably wouldn't want the job?

Sacking CC might not help stabilise the club, or maybe it will, who knows? The new man might pick players in their proper positions, he might even get the tactics right, who knows? What i do know is this one aint.

His new signings the ones he made in January are average, not nearly as good results wise are Hughes signings when he first arrived, results prove this.

I look now with all his signings in place, and see a team just as weak as the team that finished the season before last? No progress imo unless Agogo and Osbourne are world beaters.

Hope that answers your questions sufficiently pal, i'm now off for a nights poker down the pub with my mates. :aok:

[Arch Stanton]

I think we have to move on a little and get beyond blaming Yogi (or Mixu, Collins or Mowbray for that matter) for every single loss that Calderwood chalks up.

But you're right, he does inspire devotion from some people in the know. I'm not disputing that - I'm just saying that I just don't get what it is. I'm not being negative about the guy - I really would love to see him succeed. I just can't see what the attraction is.

I wouldn't and didn't blame Yogi for any of CC's losses - I brought up Yogi because he is all over this thread - I just added that point on.

And as for 'seeing the attraction', it is clear that you would prefer someone in the job who would tell you the things you want to hear (given what you said about the way he dealt with the BC/NF job rumours I mean). I'm just the opposite, I hate insincerity with a vengeance and I refuse to see it as a plus point - CC can't do facile answers - so what?

I also hate short-termism and given that CC has risked some bad results in the interests of putting a better squad together means I have nothing but admiration for him, and the people who revel in scoring cheap debating points can go stuff themselves!

[Speedway]

Oh so you are my pal now. No idea who could replace him, i'd have liked Strachan but we probably couldn't afford him, and he probably wouldn't want the job?

Sacking CC might not help stabilise the club, or maybe it will, who knows? The new man might pick players in their proper positions, he might even get the tactics right, who knows? What i do know is this one aint.

His new signings the ones he made in January are average, not nearly as good results wise are Hughes signings when he first arrived, results prove this.

I look now with all his signings in place, and see a team just as weak as the team that finished the season before last? No progress imo unless Agogo and Osbourne are world beaters.

Hope that answers your questions sufficiently pal, i'm now off for a nights poker down the pub with my mates. :aok:

This means that you're judging Hanlon after roughly 58 minutes of football and Airey after about 20.

As for wanting Strachan, that one puzzles me. Apart from his record at Celtic which anyone except Mowbray and Barnes can equal, what has he accomplished in management apart from pee-ing a lot of money down the drain and flirting with relegation?

[Dashing Bob S]

I wouldn't and didn't blame Yogi for any of CC's losses - I brought up Yogi because he is all over this thread - I just added that point on.

And as for 'seeing the attraction', it is clear that you would prefer someone in the job who would tell you the things you want to hear (given what you said about the way he dealt with the BC/NF job rumours I mean). I'm just the opposite, I hate insincerity with a vengeance and I refuse to see it as a plus point - CC can't do facile answers - so what?

I also hate short-termism and given that CC has risked some bad results in the interests of putting a better squad together means I have nothing but admiration for him, and the people who revel in scoring cheap debating points can go stuff themselves!

Not necessarily, as I've said on this thread and others, I want him to succeed, after all he's my team's manager. I've just yet to see anything that convinces me that he might.

Most of the players he's signed are on short-term contracts, so I don't get the 'hatred of short-termism' argument. I agree that long term planning is better, and I do get impression he's been given time, as if in acknowledgment by the board that there were some dressing room attitude problems which cast a spell over the tenures of Hughes, Mixu and Collins. While this is desirable in principle, what is that's convinced you he's worthy of this support? Not the results to date, surely?

I also think the idea that he's put a 'better squad together' simply hasn't been backed up the results to date.

I'm not hanging him out to dry yet, I believe by the end of October we should not a lot about Calderwood and his squad. I'd love him to convince and lot of others - but he certainly hasn't done that yet.

[Arch Stanton]

Not necessarily, as I've said on this thread and others, I want him to succeed, after all he's my team's manager. I've just yet to see anything that convinces me that he might.

Most of the players he's signed are on short-term contracts, so I don't get the 'hatred of short-termism' argument. I agree that long term planning is better, and I do get impression he's been given time, as if in acknowledgment by the board that there were some dressing room attitude problems which cast a spell over the tenures of Hughes, Mixu and Collins. While this is desirable in principle, what is that's convinced you he's worthy of this support? Not the results to date, surely?

I also think the idea that he's put a 'better squad together' simply hasn't been backed up the results to date.

I'm not hanging him out to dry yet, I believe by the end of October we should not a lot about Calderwood and his squad. I'd love him to convince and lot of others - but he certainly hasn't done that yet.

My meaning on short-termism was perfectly clear. Your notion that it should mean all our players being on long contracts makes as much sense as having all our players wearing long sleeves.

As for this bit -

" I do get impression he's been given time, as if in acknowledgment by the board that there were some dressing room attitude problems which cast a spell over the tenures of Hughes, Mixu and Collins. While this is desirable in principle...."

Not much I can say about that really.

[Kaiser1962]

We could have Mourinho in charge and a budget of £100m and folk on here would still girn like bitches.

[Dashing Bob S]

My meaning on short-termism was perfectly clear. Your notion that it should mean all our players being on long contracts makes as much sense as having all our players wearing long sleeves.

As for this bit -

" I do get impression he's been given time, as if in acknowledgment by the board that there were some dressing room attitude problems which cast a spell over the tenures of Hughes, Mixu and Collins. While this is desirable in principle...."

Not much I can say about that really.

Now you've lost me. You think it doesn't make any sense to have players on contracts of more than one year?

You seem desperate to make an argument out of nothing. I'm sorry you seem to find my view that Calderwood hasn't really cut it yet to be so gratuitously offensive. In future i'll forget about things like results, performances etc and concentrate on the tangibles.

Bedtime for me.

[blackpoolhibs]

This means that you're judging Hanlon after roughly 58 minutes of football and Airey after about 20.

As for wanting Strachan, that one puzzles me. Apart from his record at Celtic which anyone except Mowbray and Barnes can equal, what has he accomplished in management apart from pee-ing a lot of money down the drain and flirting with relegation?

If O'Hanlon turns out to be a better player than Bamba, i for one will be pleased. If O'Conner scores as many as Stokes, i will again be very pleased, although i dont think he will. Airey is not our player, but if he scores as many as Riordan did the season before last, again i will be very pleased.

Strachan i agree, did little in England bar keep coventry up, and get Southampton to a cup final.

His record in Scotland though is superb, beating O'Neils records hands down. He also made the group stages of the champions league, beating Man United on the way.

He did all that while reducing wages at the same time. He also might be hopeless, who knows? Just my pick of who's available at the minute, who wouldn't require a fee.

[J-C]

For me CC has had enough time to bed in and get the team he wants on the park, players were brought in during January and he's now added to them this transfer window, hopefully with at least anothe 2-3 to come.

All I can see with his tactics and players are 4-5-1.keep it tight, don't over elaborate playing style and grind out results, with the later not happening. The team is crying out for a play maker, someone to turn games, so far no one bought for that in mind, desperately needing a RB, should've been first on the shopping list, so far still waiting.

Another CB with experience needed, looks like he's happy to go with what we have(god help us and me being an athiest too). We have 4 strikers, fighting for 2 spots, maybe just one spot if he contnues with the exiting 4-5-1 formation. Playing out of form players out of position, Spoony at LW and Stevenson DM, why these two young lads are noy stuck on the bench for a few games is beyond me. Spoony hasn't kicked a ball decently since the middle of last season and Stevenson's living of the cup win, time for a real shake up of selection. Sproule is and always will be an impact player, Galbraith needs more game time and if Jimmy Scott isn't going to get a game due to the punch he threw at training, then get him sold and off the wage bill, at leaast he adds a bit of bite to the midfield.

CC has had enough time now to build and shape a team and so far the judges are out and probably unwilling to come back with their verdicts, either turn it round or time to bring in someone else capable of doing so, in any other job he'd have been sacked long ago for incompetence.

[HibsMax]

CC has had enough time now to build and shape a team and so far the judges are out and probably unwilling to come back with their verdicts, either turn it round or time to bring in someone else capable of doing so, in any other job he'd have been sacked long ago for incompetence.

Agree with the first bit and he has built his team. But should we not allow him a little more time to see what he can do with this team or was your expectation that all we need to do is buy some new players and we'll start beating everyone? Getting in new personnel is just the first stage. Some guys are / were injured. Let's just let the team get fit (in other words, CC has a full team to choose from) and let's (at least) wait until we've got a few more games under our belts before we head en masse to the Forth Road Bridge. I'm not an apologist. I'm not happy with losing 1-4 to Killie. There are lots of things I am not happy about but I am patient enough to see where this takes us. We can't keep replacing managers every year.

I think you're wrong with your "in any other job" analogy but that's just my opinion based upon my experiences.

[J-C]

Agree with the first bit and he has built his team. But should we not allow him a little more time to see what he can do with this team or was your expectation that all we need to do is buy some new players and we'll start beating everyone? Getting in new personnel is just the first stage. Some guys are / were injured. Let's just let the team get fit (in other words, CC has a full team to choose from) and let's (at least) wait until we've got a few more games under our belts before we head en masse to the Forth Road Bridge. I'm not an apologist. I'm not happy with losing 1-4 to Killie. There are lots of things I am not happy about but I am patient enough to see where this takes us. We can't keep replacing managers every year.

I think you're wrong with your "in any other job" analogy but that's just my opinion based upon my experiences.

His record is very very poor re results and as I said in other jobs where results are the main point, say sales he'd be gone. He doesn't fill me with confidence, his tactics are very negative and lets face it he'll be gone as soon as the right offer comes along he's not hidden that fact. I wasn't overly excited when he took over but I gave him the benefit of the doubt, to date I no longer want him here as I think he's the wrong guy for the job.

[JimBHibees]

Not necessarily, as I've said on this thread and others, I want him to succeed, after all he's my team's manager. I've just yet to see anything that convinces me that he might.

Most of the players he's signed are on short-term contracts, so I don't get the 'hatred of short-termism' argument. I agree that long term planning is better, and I do get impression he's been given time, as if in acknowledgment by the board that there were some dressing room attitude problems which cast a spell over the tenures of Hughes, Mixu and Collins. While this is desirable in principle, what is that's convinced you he's worthy of this support? Not the results to date, surely?

I also think the idea that he's put a 'better squad together' simply hasn't been backed up the results to date.

I'm not hanging him out to dry yet, I believe by the end of October we should not a lot about Calderwood and his squad. I'd love him to convince and lot of others - but he certainly hasn't done that yet.

We are not going to know that until all players are signed and fit and we play a few games though. Lets see where we are after 10 league games.

[JimBHibees]

Agree with the first bit and he has built his team. But should we not allow him a little more time to see what he can do with this team or was your expectation that all we need to do is buy some new players and we'll start beating everyone? Getting in new personnel is just the first stage. Some guys are / were injured. Let's just let the team get fit (in other words, CC has a full team to choose from) and let's (at least) wait until we've got a few more games under our belts before we head en masse to the Forth Road Bridge. I'm not an apologist. I'm not happy with losing 1-4 to Killie. There are lots of things I am not happy about but I am patient enough to see where this takes us. We can't keep replacing managers every year.

Good post completely agree.

[Stevie Reid]

Ignoring the serious reservations I have regarding Calderwood as there is little point in adding further to that debate and I want him to be successful, I still find the assistant manager situation with us very, very strange, from the appointment and quick departure of Adams, to the decision to (kind of) promote Alistair Stevenson in the wake of his departure.

Calderwood had zero experience of Scottish football as either a player or coach prior to his appointment at Hibs, and you would think that when making such a move you would want a trusted former colleague alongside you (which didn't happen), or to appoint someone experienced, who knows what this league is all about - Derek Adams could hardly be described as that, and Alistair Stevenson, whilst having a very impressive record with youth players, is inexperienced at SPL level also. I have absolutely nothing against Gareth Evans, but since JC picked him from nowhere to become a coach here, he has survived a succession of managers who have failed to convince the majority of fans.

I wonder if the staff surrounding him are strong enough to challenge his thoughts and opinions - obviously the manager's word is always final, but the best management teams often seem to be partnerships who work together. Maybe this does happen at Hibs, but I get the impression that CC is doing this largely on his own.

One of the last, desperate acts under the distasterous reign that was Jim Duffy's was to get Billy McNeil in as General Manager, as Duffy openly admitted that he had underestimated how big a job being manager at ER was - I sincerely hope that Calderwood has not made the same mistake.

[Hibby 2005]

Calderwood seems to be able to spot a player as well as recognise where we need strengthened.

What was worrying last Saturday was playing one up front against Killie when we had 2 strikers on the bench, who were ready, as well as playing Stevenson in midfield, Wotherspoon out of position, NO recognised RB and a central pairing in defence that was an accident waiting to happen. All signs that Calderwood is tactically less than astute.

We can keep signing players and hope that eventually everything will be allright but Calderwood is not inspiring people at present.

[smurf]

His record is very very poor re results and as I said in other jobs where results are the main point, say sales he'd be gone. He doesn't fill me with confidence, his tactics are very negative and lets face it he'll be gone as soon as the right offer comes along he's not hidden that fact. I wasn't overly excited when he took over but I gave him the benefit of the doubt, to date I no longer want him here as I think he's the wrong guy for the job.

And in sales what would happen to the guy appointing the sales guys not up to the job?:greengrin

Yours, an ex Sales Manager never fired.:wink:

[BEEJ]

Ignoring the serious reservations I have regarding Calderwood as there is little point in adding further to that debate and I want him to be successful, I still find the assistant manager situation with us very, very strange, from the appointment and quick departure of Adams, to the decision to (kind of) promote Alistair Stevenson in the wake of his departure.

Calderwood had zero experience of Scottish football as either a player or coach prior to his appointment at Hibs, and you would think that when making such a move you would want a trusted former colleague alongside you (which didn't happen), or to appoint someone experienced, who knows what this league is all about - Derek Adams could hardly be described as that, and Alistair Stevenson, whilst having a very impressive record with youth players, is inexperienced at SPL level also. I have absolutely nothing against Gareth Evans, but since JC picked him from nowhere to become a coach here, he has survived a succession of managers who have failed to convince the majority of fans.

I wonder if the staff surrounding him are strong enough to challenge his thoughts and opinions - obviously the manager's word is always final, but the best management teams often seem to be partnerships who work together. Maybe this does happen at Hibs, but I get the impression that CC is doing this largely on his own.

One of the last, desperate acts under the distasterous reign that was Jim Duffy's was to get Billy McNeil in as General Manager, as Duffy openly admitted that he had underestimated how big a job being manager at ER was - I sincerely hope that Calderwood has not made the same mistake.
:agree: Agree with every word of that.

And it's a concern.

[Andy74]

Ignoring the serious reservations I have regarding Calderwood as there is little point in adding further to that debate and I want him to be successful, I still find the assistant manager situation with us very, very strange, from the appointment and quick departure of Adams, to the decision to (kind of) promote Alistair Stevenson in the wake of his departure.

Calderwood had zero experience of Scottish football as either a player or coach prior to his appointment at Hibs, and you would think that when making such a move you would want a trusted former colleague alongside you (which didn't happen), or to appoint someone experienced, who knows what this league is all about - Derek Adams could hardly be described as that, and Alistair Stevenson, whilst having a very impressive record with youth players, is inexperienced at SPL level also. I have absolutely nothing against Gareth Evans, but since JC picked him from nowhere to become a coach here, he has survived a succession of managers who have failed to convince the majority of fans.

I wonder if the staff surrounding him are strong enough to challenge his thoughts and opinions - obviously the manager's word is always final, but the best management teams often seem to be partnerships who work together. Maybe this does happen at Hibs, but I get the impression that CC is doing this largely on his own.

One of the last, desperate acts under the distasterous reign that was Jim Duffy's was to get Billy McNeil in as General Manager, as Duffy openly admitted that he had underestimated how big a job being manager at ER was - I sincerely hope that Calderwood has not made the same mistake.

Yep, all a bit strange, however, having said my bit on CC I'll shut up now and hope that come Saturday he's made some steps to try and keep me that way!

[IWasThere2016]

Yep, all a bit strange, however, having said my bit on CC I'll shut up now and hope that come Saturday he's made some steps to try and keep me that way!

Agreed

Your no. of posts (and you won't be alone) between ICT and the Killie (a week) game will be a fraction of those post the Killie game to today (half a week) .. so the more wins the merrier we'll all be for various reasons! :wink: :greengrin

[HibsMax]

His record is very very poor re results and as I said in other jobs where results are the main point, say sales he'd be gone. He doesn't fill me with confidence, his tactics are very negative and lets face it he'll be gone as soon as the right offer comes along he's not hidden that fact. I wasn't overly excited when he took over but I gave him the benefit of the doubt, to date I no longer want him here as I think he's the wrong guy for the job.

I understand your point but, IMO, he is not entirely responsible for the string of bad results. All I will say is that, again in my opinion, CC has had time to build a team with his players but as we all know, there is still some strengthening required. We need to give the whole team some time to gel, that's the period I think we're in now. We've punted the players not needed. We've strengthened areas (not all of them) that need strengthening. Now let's see what they can do but let's not expect overnight success. There is a time limit, this cannot go on and on unchecked. But three games into the season? That's too early for me. I'm not taking into account last seasons string of results because that was a different team.

[scoopyboy]

Calderwood seems to be able to spot a player as well as recognise where we need strengthened.

What was worrying last Saturday was playing one up front against Killie when we had 2 strikers on the bench, who were ready, as well as playing Stevenson in midfield, Wotherspoon out of position, NO recognised RB and a central pairing in defence that was an accident waiting to happen. All signs that Calderwood is tactically less than astute.

We can keep signing players and hope that eventually everything will be allright but Calderwood is not inspiring people at present.

He fell for the trap of keeping a winning team.

He should have picked what he felt was his strongest team available on the day, I'm sure CC himself and the vast majority would agree he didn't put out his strongest team available.

[Speedway]

One of the last, desperate acts under the distasterous reign that was Jim Duffy's was to get Billy McNeil in as General Manager, as Duffy openly admitted that he had underestimated how big a job being manager at ER was - I sincerely hope that Calderwood has not made the same mistake.

A key difference in that comparison is that Hibs were the largest club Duffy had been at as a player or manager. Hibs are not even the third biggest club that CC has been at. I doubt the job is too big for him. Even if it was, rather than invent a general manager, we actually have a DOF in all but name working on the manager's behalf.


He fell for the trap of keeping a winning team.

He should have picked what he felt was his strongest team available on the day, I'm sure CC himself and the vast majority would agree he didn't put out his strongest team available.

Agree completely. He was loyal to players who'd got him an away win and they were not loyal to him in terms of effort, attitude and doing what they'd been asked to do. Lesson learned.

[Stevie Reid]

A key difference in that comparison is that Hibs were the largest club Duffy had been at as a player or manager. Hibs are not even the third biggest club that CC has been at. I doubt the job is too big for him. Even if it was, rather than invent a general manager, we actually have a DOF in all but name working on the manager's behalf.

A very true and not insignificant point. However, have a look at the two records: -

Duffy
P 46 W 8 D 15 L 23

Calderwood
P 35 W 9 D 6 L 20

The number of defeats could indicate that CC is just as out of his depth as Duffy was, regardless of the support network that Calderwood has. Of course he has had more wins than Duffy in 11 less games, and hopefully he will go onto get many more in the next few months.

FWIW, I don't believe that Calderwood is anywhere near as bad as Duffy, and his signings on paper are light years ahead of the utter crap that Jim Duffy spent good money on. Fingers crossed his record is significantly better by the time he gets to 46 games in charge.

But the stats are frightening.

[Dashing Bob S]

A very true and not insignificant point. However, have a look at the two records: -

Duffy
P 46 W 8 D 15 L 23

Calderwood
P 35 W 9 D 6 L 20

The number of defeats could indicate that CC is just as out of his depth as Duffy was, regardless of the support network that Calderwood has. Of course he has had more wins than Duffy in 11 less games, and hopefully he will go onto get many more in the next few months.

FWIW, I don't believe that Calderwood is anywhere near as bad as Duffy, and his signings on paper are light years ahead of the utter crap that Jim Duffy spent good money on. Fingers crossed his record is significantly better by the time he gets to 46 games in charge.

But the stats are frightening.

Gulp!

[Paisley Hibby]

A very true and not insignificant point. However, have a look at the two records: -

Duffy
P 46 W 8 D 15 L 23

Calderwood
P 35 W 9 D 6 L 20

The number of defeats could indicate that CC is just as out of his depth as Duffy was, regardless of the support network that Calderwood has. Of course he has had more wins than Duffy in 11 less games, and hopefully he will go onto get many more in the next few months.

FWIW, I don't believe that Calderwood is anywhere near as bad as Duffy, and his signings on paper are light years ahead of the utter crap that Jim Duffy spent good money on. Fingers crossed his record is significantly better by the time he gets to 46 games in charge.

But the stats are frightening.

Duff Jimmy's time as Hibs manager was probably the lowest point I can ever remember at ER. So to see
Calderwood's stats like that is a serious worry!!! However, what worries me even more is that back then I
really cared about what was happening. These days I'm losing interest. I haven't even been to pick up my season ticket yet. Maybe it's an age thing....

[blackpoolhibs]

Duff Jimmy's time as Hibs manager was probably the lowest point I can ever remember at ER. So to see
Calderwood's stats like that is a serious worry!!! However, what worries me even more is that back then I
really cared about what was happening. These days I'm losing interest. I haven't even been to pick up my season ticket yet. Maybe it's an age thing....

A worrying sign being played out by Hibbys more and more.

[Dashing Bob S]

The comparison with Duffy is quite interesting. He has another nine games before he reaches the same number as a guy who is arguably remembered as the least successful tried-and-failed manager in our recent history.

If, in nine games time, Calderwood's record still stands comparison with JD's, (he already has more wins but is almost certainly heading for more defeats) where would that leave his advocates?

[Arch Stanton]

A very true and not insignificant point. However, have a look at the two records: -

Duffy
P 46 W 8 D 15 L 23

Calderwood
P 35 W 9 D 6 L 20

The number of defeats could indicate that CC is just as out of his depth as Duffy was, regardless of the support network that Calderwood has. Of course he has had more wins than Duffy in 11 less games, and hopefully he will go onto get many more in the next few months.

FWIW, I don't believe that Calderwood is anywhere near as bad as Duffy, and his signings on paper are light years ahead of the utter crap that Jim Duffy spent good money on. Fingers crossed his record is significantly better by the time he gets to 46 games in charge.

But the stats are frightening.

Stats aren't that meaningful if you don't compare like with like (or at least acknowledge differences and account for them somehow).

Now the number of matches in your comparison are fairly similar so that is fair enough but Duffy didn't have to cope with transfer windows and that does make a big difference.

Taking a snapshot of CC's results when he hasn't yet worked his way though his first meaningful transfer window is actually pretty silly when you think about it. Our starting line-up will be a lot different in a few weeks from what it was on Sunday so it beats me why people can't wait until proper comparisons can be made before coming to conclusions.

So basically, during Duffy's full time in charge the team was all his (and I'm trying not to remember how bad that was) - the is absolutely not the case with CC because of transfer windows.

[Sammy7nil]

Stats aren't that meaningful if you don't compare like with like (or at least acknowledge differences and account for them somehow).

Now the number of matches in your comparison are fairly similar so that is fair enough but Duffy didn't have to cope with transfer windows and that does make a big difference.

Taking a snapshot of CC's results when he hasn't yet worked his way though his first meaningful transfer window is actually pretty silly when you think about it. Our starting line-up will be a lot different in a few weeks from what it was on Sunday so it beats me why people can't wait until proper comparisons can be made before coming to conclusions.

So basically, during Duffy's full time in charge the team was all his (and I'm trying not to remember how bad that was) - the is absolutely not the case with CC because of transfer windows.

I see what your saying but why does a manager need 11 of his own players?
Should he not be able to work with at least 3 or 4 of the squad he inherited?
CC has not committed to Hibs in the manner we would all like and therefore selling his Hibernian vision to the players must be very difficult when you are waiting for the phone to ring to move South.

[Albion Hibs]

He fell for the trap of keeping a winning team.

He should have picked what he felt was his strongest team available on the day, I'm sure CC himself and the vast majority would agree he didn't put out his strongest team available.

Ah..that age old trap of "keeping a winning team":faf:. I am sure Fergie, Wenger and Co are the masters at avoiding picking a winning team again!

What a ridiculous thing to say.....he would agree with what...the average punter - lets be honest how would you, me or anyone else know how good bad or indifferent these guys are?! Have you seen them play much? To say that the bench was the stronger team is a farce, for fitness / game time reasons alone.

[basehibby]

He fell for the trap of keeping a winning team.

He should have picked what he felt was his strongest team available on the day, I'm sure CC himself and the vast majority would agree he didn't put out his strongest team available.

Not so sure about that - the players brought on at HT were all either just in the door or just back from injury and probably something short of full match fitness. Many managers would have been reluctant to start with players in these circumstances.

Even sticking both Osbourne and Agogo on together at HT was something of a gamble IMO as they were still unknown quantities to their teammates and it backfired even if they both looked good enough individually. A full week of training with the rest of the squad will hopefully make a big difference in this respect and I wouldn't be surprised if both started vs St Midden.

[basehibby]

The comparison with Duffy is quite interesting. He has another nine games before he reaches the same number as a guy who is arguably remembered as the least successful tried-and-failed manager in our recent history.

If, in nine games time, Calderwood's record still stands comparison with JD's, (he already has more wins but is almost certainly heading for more defeats) where would that leave his advocates?

CC's stats are currently marginally ahead of JD's - 0.95 pts a game vs 0.85.

Between now and November I'd like to see something more like 1.2 points a game (or better obviously) which is the sort of form we'll need to have a chance of the top 6. If between now and then we're still yielding no more than a point a game then I'll be starting to wonder if Rod should have just grabbed the 300K and ran.

[scoopyboy]

Ah..that age old trap of "keeping a winning team":faf:. I am sure Fergie, Wenger and Co are the masters at avoiding picking a winning team again!

What a ridiculous thing to say.....he would agree with what...the average punter - lets be honest how would you, me or anyone else know how good bad or indifferent these guys are?! Have you seen them play much? To say that the bench was the stronger team is a farce, for fitness / game time reasons alone.

Fergie, Wenger and Co constantly change winning teams, if Rooney or Fabregas were out for injury or suspension then they come back in irrespective of how well the team performed. So your first point is a nonsense.

I agree with your point regarding I don't know how good, bad or indifferent the new guys are. However by all accounts (I wasn't at the game) De Graaf was good against Sunderland and something I do know is that Lewis Stevenson isn't good enough to start every game (which he has). So De Graaf for Stevenson couldn't have been any worse.

To use two subs at half time when only one goal down to me was recognition he didn't have the team right.

At no point did I state the bench was the stronger than the team and I'm sure you know that. Fair enough having a go at what I post but don't make things up that I never stated.

[IWasThere2016]

A fair number of CC's defeats were with Yogi's dross. 'The previous incumbent's unworkable legacy' :wink:

[smurf]

The CC stats compared to that of Duffy Jimmy tell the story...

With his own team CC simply has to start winning football matches.

There are no excuses.

[greenlex]

The CC stats compared to that of Duffy Jimmy tell the story...With his own team CC simply has to start winning football matches.There are no excuses. :agree: but time is still needed.

[Dashing Bob S]

CC's stats are currently marginally ahead of JD's - 0.95 pts a game vs 0.85.

Between now and November I'd like to see something more like 1.2 points a game (or better obviously) which is the sort of form we'll need to have a chance of the top 6. If between now and then we're still yielding no more than a point a game then I'll be starting to wonder if Rod should have just grabbed the 300K and ran.

I go along with that. Obviously, I'm concerned that the longer we keep a poor manager the more we risk writing off another season, but he still might come good and I think November is a sensible time to review the situation.

[Stevie Reid]

A very true and not insignificant point. However, have a look at the two records: -

Duffy
P 46 W 8 D 15 L 23

Calderwood
P 35 W 9 D 6 L 20

The number of defeats could indicate that CC is just as out of his depth as Duffy was, regardless of the support network that Calderwood has. Of course he has had more wins than Duffy in 11 less games, and hopefully he will go onto get many more in the next few months.

FWIW, I don't believe that Calderwood is anywhere near as bad as Duffy, and his signings on paper are light years ahead of the utter crap that Jim Duffy spent good money on. Fingers crossed his record is significantly better by the time he gets to 46 games in charge.

But the stats are frightening.


Stats aren't that meaningful if you don't compare like with like (or at least acknowledge differences and account for them somehow).

Now the number of matches in your comparison are fairly similar so that is fair enough but Duffy didn't have to cope with transfer windows and that does make a big difference.

Taking a snapshot of CC's results when he hasn't yet worked his way though his first meaningful transfer window is actually pretty silly when you think about it. Our starting line-up will be a lot different in a few weeks from what it was on Sunday so it beats me why people can't wait until proper comparisons can be made before coming to conclusions.

So basically, during Duffy's full time in charge the team was all his (and I'm trying not to remember how bad that was) - the is absolutely not the case with CC because of transfer windows.

Why wasn't the January transfer window meaningful exactly? CC signed 7 players, more than he has in this one, so that's pretty meaningful in my book. And that's not a snapshot of Calderwood's results (like RP used in the press release recently), that's ALL of his results. And, with regards to coming to conclusions, you will see that the conclusion that I have come to is that CC is nowhere near as bad as Duffy (despite what the stats are showing), and I very much hope that my conclusion is correct. If you had read my post properly instead of diving in head first to defend Calderwood (when there really was no need), you might have seen that.

FWIW, your point regarding transfer windows is fair to a point, but quite obviously it wasn't Duffy's team during ALL his time in charge, how could it possibly be? He didn't sign a whole team in one day. He did sign a number of players but he still had to manager Alex Miller's players for his whole time in charge, as well as those that he signed - I wish he had managed Miller's players for longer incidentally, as practically all of Duffy's signings were utter pish.

I really hope that CC turns things around, and the latest signs in Osbourne and Agogo were encouraging, but as Smurf says, there can be no more excuses. And no matter which way you look at it, those stats ARE frightening.

[Stevie Reid]

A fair number of CC's defeats were with Yogi's dross. 'The previous incumbent's unworkable legacy' :wink:

A fair number of Yogi's defeats were with Hogg, Rankin and Nish, players that he was saddled with from previous incumbents - did you make similar excuses for him?

I have no wish to debate Yogi further, I'm glad he was sacked, but your only defence of Calderwood is through attacking Hughes. It wore thin a long time ago.

[Stevie Reid]

:agree: but time is still needed.

It is. But real and significant progress must be made by the 22 game mark.

[Phil MaGlass]

FWIW, we need to give the guy a while yet, we cant go ditching managers willy nilly, we cant afford it, we cant afford to keep losing either, but the guy has got almost all the positions covered, he has a very young inexperienced squad, he needs time to get them playing together, but on saying that, a weakened Hibs team should still be beating teams like Kilmarnock and St.Mirren, especially with the amount of players and money that has passed through us in the last 2-3 yrs.

[Arch Stanton]

Why wasn't the January transfer window meaningful exactly? CC signed 7 players, more than he has in this one, so that's pretty meaningful in my book.


There is comparatively very little activity (and therefore players available) in the January window and it's really only of use for managers to plug gaps in their squad caused by injuries.

CC managed extremely well to transform the squad as much as he did given that it included a couple of youngsters and a Div 1 stalwart. Also, most managers I can remember seem to bring in a duffer for every reasonable signing so, even better in my book.



And that's not a snapshot of Calderwood's results (like RP used in the press release recently), that's ALL of his results.


Yes, it's a snapshot of all his results at this point in time which is in the middle of a big reorganisation.



FWIW, your point regarding transfer windows is fair to a point, but quite obviously it wasn't Duffy's team during ALL his time in charge, how could it possibly be? He didn't sign a whole team in one day. He did sign a number of players but he still had to manager Alex Miller's players for his whole time in charge, as well as those that he signed - I wish he had managed Miller's players for longer incidentally, as practically all of Duffy's signings were utter pish.


I don't believe any manager ever inherits a squad that is rubbish through and through - JD didn't and neither did CC. However, JD was in a position to identify problem areas and rectify them immediately (and not make them worse as he in fact did) but CC has not been in a position to do that so any comparison, good or bad, should take that into account.



And no matter which way you look at it, those stats ARE frightening.

Only if you frighten easily and don't understand the nature of statistics very well.

[Arch Stanton]

I go along with that. Obviously, I'm concerned that the longer we keep a poor manager the more we risk writing off another season, but he still might come good and I think November is a sensible time to review the situation.

This November?

[Stevie Reid]

There is comparatively very little activity (and therefore players available) in the January window and it's really only of use for managers to plug gaps in their squad caused by injuries.

CC managed extremely well to transform the squad as much as he did given that it included a couple of youngsters and a Div 1 stalwart. Also, most managers I can remember seem to bring in a duffer for every reasonable signing so, even better in my book.



Yes, it's a snapshot of all his results at this point in time which is in the middle of a big reorganisation.



I don't believe any manager ever inherits a squad that is rubbish through and through - JD didn't and neither did CC. However, JD was in a position to identify problem areas and rectify them immediately (and not make them worse as he in fact did) but CC has not been in a position to do that so any comparison, good or bad, should take that into account.



Only if you frighten easily and don't understand the nature of statistics very well.

I don't agree with all of it, but the rest of your post is actually pretty well reasoned and argued until the patronising nonsense at the end.

Jim Duffy was far and away the worst manager Hibs have had IMO, he took us from 5th to a relegation play off in his first season, and then got us relegated the next. His record is appalling, and alongside it, Calderwood's is frightening.

I am no statistical expert but I don't have to be to analyse the football results of two different managers - and the key point here is this; even without being compared to the worst manager in our history, CC's reults are frightening.

FWIW, I don't scare easily, I have my ST yet again this season, so I would say I more a glutton for punishment, actually.

Incidentally, could you perhaps elaborate more on the statistics so as to help me understand the huge differences between CC's record, and JD's? I presume that the transfer window reasoning wasn't the only thing that you're referring to.

[Albion Hibs]

Fergie, Wenger and Co constantly change winning teams, if Rooney or Fabregas were out for injury or suspension then they come back in irrespective of how well the team performed. So your first point is a nonsense.

I agree with your point regarding I don't know how good, bad or indifferent the new guys are. However by all accounts (I wasn't at the game) De Graaf was good against Sunderland and something I do know is that Lewis Stevenson isn't good enough to start every game (which he has). So De Graaf for Stevenson couldn't have been any worse.

To use two subs at half time when only one goal down to me was recognition he didn't have the team right.

At no point did I state the bench was the stronger than the team and I'm sure you know that. Fair enough having a go at what I post but don't make things up that I never stated.

You are compairing these managers maybe bringing straight back in there best players, players that have performed consistantly for 3, 4, 5 maybe even 6 seasons with guys who have never even played for Hibs before. Alas there is no comparison in the slightest and your point is "nonsense".

[Arch Stanton]

I don't agree with all of it, but the rest of your post is actually pretty well reasoned and argued until the patronising nonsense at the end.

Jim Duffy was far and away the worst manager Hibs have had IMO, he took us from 5th to a relegation play off in his first season, and then got us relegated the next. His record is appalling, and alongside it, Calderwood's is frightening.

I am no statistical expert but I don't have to be to analyse the football results of two different managers - and the key point here is this; even without being compared to the worst manager in our history, CC's reults are frightening.

FWIW, I don't scare easily, I have my ST yet again this season, so I would say I more a glutton for punishment, actually.

Incidentally, could you perhaps elaborate more on the statistics so as to help me understand the huge differences between CC's record, and JD's? I presume that the transfer window reasoning wasn't the only thing that you're referring to.

Sorry about the patronising - the intention was more tongue in cheek, although I suppose I get on a high horse at times. For instance, stats are samples which can be used to predict the larger population - what you provided were a set of figures, and my problem with your comparison was that it was not comparing like with like (given the transfer windows, as I said).

Also, your figures do not show what the trend is for CC - they are only frightening if you assume things remain the same or get worse and I can see no reason why that assumption is in any way valid.

They are also only frightening if you think that the squad CC has put together is no better than the squad JD put together. For me, looking at the quality of players CC now has around him, I cannot see us do anything but improve.

[Stevie Reid]

Sorry about the patronising - the intention was more tongue in cheek, although I suppose I get on a high horse at times. For instance, stats are samples which can be used to predict the larger population - what you provided were a set of figures, and my problem with your comparison was that it was not comparing like with like (given the transfer windows, as I said).

Also, your figures do not show what the trend is for CC - they are only frightening if you assume things remain the same or get worse and I can see no reason why that assumption is in any way valid.

They are also only frightening if you think that the squad CC has put together is no better than the squad JD put together. For me, looking at the quality of players CC now has around him, I cannot see us do anything but improve.

No worries, I was pretty pious in the way I pulled you up for it.

I have already stated that I feel that CC's squad (on paper) is a lot better than Duffy's, but at the moment that doesn't count for anything - and, in the context of the debate, it doesn't really matter how much better we perceive this team to be better than Duffy's; what matters is how much better they are than the other teams in the 2011-12 SPL

Incidentally, by my reckoning CC's Hibs have lost 8 out of their last 11 league games - a worrying trend, no? I can't state enough how much I want him to succeed as Hibs manager, but I really can't see how any positive spin can be put on these stats.

Here's hoping the next few weeks brings some significant improvement.

[scoopyboy]

You are compairing these managers maybe bringing straight back in there best players, players that have performed consistantly for 3, 4, 5 maybe even 6 seasons with guys who have never even played for Hibs before. Alas there is no comparison in the slightest and your point is "nonsense".

It was you that mentioned Ferguson, Wenger and Co in the first place and now you are saying there is no comparison.

Mmmmmmm.

My original point if you care to check back was that keeping a winning team isn't always a great idea and if you feel it can be improved then you should change it before a defeat rather than after it.

I think the team this Saturday will have a few changes, yet the changes will probably be with the newer players being introduced who still haven't gained a lot of playing time and can't possibly be match fit. So if they are deemed good or ready enough to play this week then they were ready to play on Sunday.

[Bob Box Fish]

About another 50k today considering we are about 3k down on where we were not so long ago for
this level of fixture at this point in the season.