Who's The Playmaker?

[Dan Sarf]

Like everyone else, I'm loving the new signings coming in. We've got strikers. We've got defenders. We've even got a couple of goalies: a real team seems to be emerging.

But what I'm wondering is - who's going to be the player who puts his foot on the ball, sends angled, defence destroying passes, switches the play from one wing to the other? In other words, the playmaker.

To be honest, I don't get to see the Hibs live very often so maybe this guy is already on the team sheet and I just don't realise it.

Who's it going to be?

[JIm]

Edwin De Graaf.............

[Hibs7]

Thornhill

[Thomson]

Thornhill

:agree: I agree. Thornhill!!!

[Franck is God]

Pretty much every player CC has brought in so far is comfortable on the ball, can pick and play a pass, are tall and athletic and can get about the pitch.

Will also say that creating chances hasn't been too much of a problem in the majority of games, missing them has been the biggest issue but we have three new strikers starting this season which will hopefully sure that one.

[Dan Sarf]

Pretty much every player CC has brought in so far is comfortable on the ball, can pick and play a pass, are tall and athletic and can get about the pitch.

Will also say that creating chances hasn't been too much of a problem in the majority of games, missing them has been the biggest issue but we have three new strikers starting this season which will hopefully sure that one.


Don't want to be picky but that's what I'm worried about. Big, fit, athletic lads getting about their job is fine (as are our new strikers). But do we yet have the unpredictable element that, when on song, makes a team great?

Is Thornhill that man?

[Speedway]

Thornhill is that man.

Eddie is every woman.

[Franck is God]

Don't want to be picky but that's what I'm worried about. Big, fit, athletic lads getting about their job is fine (as are our new strikers). But do we yet have the unpredictable element that, when on song, makes a team great?

Is Thornhill that man?


Thornhill definitely has the ability for everything to go through him but from what I've seen CC seems to like the team dynamic to come first and win games and points through graft and overall quality rather than a single player making the difference.

Given that over the last few years the likes of Riordan, Zemmama, Stokes, Miller, Benji etc have supposedly been the main man in the team and have failed pretty badly maybe a new approach is the way to go?

[Dan Sarf]

Thornhill definitely has the ability for everything to go through him but from what I've seen CC seems to like the team dynamic to come first and win games and points through graft and overall quality rather than a single player making the difference.

Given that over the last few years the likes of Riordan, Zemmama, Stokes, Miller, Benji etc have supposedly been the main man in the team and have failed pretty badly maybe a new approach is the way to go?

That's my worry in a nutshell. Graft Vs Flair. Which would you rather watch? Yes, I know we need to win. But surely we don't want to turn into... Hearts?

Not trying to be provocative, by the way. Just voicing a concern that we don't seem to have lined up a pass maker to make our new team perfect. Unless, as some have said, Thornhill is the guy to do that. Can't wait to find out.

[Monkey Harris]

Wotherspoon is the real creative player on our books. Unfortunately he's a young laddie, who has the support on his back.

[Aldo]

Has to be Thornhill.... has an eye for goal, can tackle and can pass...he will do for me.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Wotherspoon is the real creative player on our books. Unfortunately he's a young laddie, who has the support on his back.

I agree with you there i think Wotherspoon has the potential to be absolutle outstanding! Time for people to keep of his back!!

[hibsbollah]

Its my worry too. The signings have been good, but weve never replaced Zemmama.

[MacBean]

Does it necessarily have to be a splitting pass or can it be a blistering run?
Ivan in my eyes gives us something different than other teams. He can burst with the ball like no other player and all defences quake when they see him running at them with the ball at his feet. He is unpredictable at times and can get the lucky breaks but he gives us that different outlet.
Galbraith also has the skill trait who can turn inside and out, but he isnt a 90 minutes player.

Thornhill has turned into a great asset and is certainly the closest thing to the "Playmaker" role we have.

We are yet to see Ozzy play and you never know what kind of player he is, he could be the man who gets stuck in and about, but can ping a 40 yard cross field ball to the other wing opening up the park.

IMHO, we have the product going forward sorted, but I still feel we need another CB and a RB to complete the solid squad.

GGTTH :flag:

[Dashing Bob S]

Don't need one. It's the SPL. Let's just destroy anything that gets in our path.

[J-C]

Don't think CC is looking to have any particular player as the playmaker, looks like he's trying to get a spine to the team starting from the back, creativity will hopefully take it's course. We hjave a few players who can be creative, Thornhill, De Graaf, Galbraith, Wotherspoon, Sproule and GOC, any one can surely turn it on by playing the right pass or making the right run into position.

[frazeHFC]

Thornhill for me. Really like him, great player. :agree:

[down-the-slope]

Its my worry too. The signings have been good, but weve never replaced Zemmama.

I'm sure hart will deputise ablely on the treatment table for Zoomer

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Thornhill and Osbourne as a midfield pairing.

[Kaiser1962]

Thornhill for me.

I would add that the inch perfect pass for GOC to run on to and score at Inverness was supplied by Nid.

[crash]

Like everyone else, I'm loving the new signings coming in. We've got strikers. We've got defenders. We've even got a couple of goalies: a real team seems to be emerging.

But what I'm wondering is - who's going to be the player who puts his foot on the ball, sends angled, defence destroying passes, switches the play from one wing to the other? In other words, the playmaker.

To be honest, I don't get to see the Hibs live very often so maybe this guy is already on the team sheet and I just don't realise it.

Who's it going to be?

I would agree with this, we have strengthened the playing squad but we dont have anyone of sufficient quality in the midfield who can play at the required tempo to give the strikers the service.You can have all the guns in the world, but they are useless without bullets.

[hibsbollah]

Thornhill for me.I would add that the inch perfect pass for GOC to run on to and score at Inverness was supplied by Nid. I watched it on the highlights eagerly expecting to see something Iniestaesque, and lets be honest, Nid just hits a ball into space which a wide-open GOC runs onto. It wasnt anything special.

[smurf]

That's my worry in a nutshell. Graft Vs Flair. Which would you rather watch? Yes, I know we need to win. But surely we don't want to turn into... Hearts?

Not trying to be provocative, by the way. Just voicing a concern that we don't seem to have lined up a pass maker to make our new team perfect. Unless, as some have said, Thornhill is the guy to do that. Can't wait to find out.

Winning with flair is a lovely combination.

But ultimately only winning matters.

And this season that's the most important thing.

Winning football matches.

[hibsbollah]

I'm sure hart will deputise ablely on the treatment table for Zoomer You know what I mean. When fit, zouma did the unexpected. He changed the pace and the play. Thornhill looks an excellent buy, I really like him. But hes not the creative fantasista type. But as already has been said, maybe CC doesnt want one.

[sKipper]

You know what I mean. When fit, zouma did the unexpected. He changed the pace and the play. Thornhill looks an excellent buy, I really like him. But hes not the creative fantasista type. But as already has been said, maybe CC doesnt want one.

There is a definite void in midfield with no real creative player.

Hope we sign one shortly as playing like Hearts won't go down well.

[hibs0666]

Its my worry too. The signings have been good, but weve never replaced Zemmama.

In the treatment room you mean?

[Sir David Gray]

I don't think we have a creative midfielder.

That, along with a right back, should be the priority between now and the end of the window.

[Hibby70]

Don't need one. It's the SPL. Let's just destroy anything that gets in our path.I agree. And can we all start chanting "attack, attack, attack, attack attack....." and "you're gonna get your $%%&#@ head kicked in"

[hibs0666]

If you have a 'creative player' it normally means that you have ten cluggers and one bloke (usually wee) who has a vague notion of what's going on.

Persoanally I'd rather have ten players comfortable on the ball who can see and make a pass.

[Wilson]

I would agree with this, we have strengthened the playing squad but we dont have anyone of sufficient quality in the midfield who can play at the required tempo to give the strikers the service.You can have all the guns in the world, but they are useless without bullets.

Well I say we should stop fretting and lets just set about pistol-whipping the rest of the SPL.

Seriously though I do not share peoples concern on this one. We have been crying out for quality throughout the squad and we now have it. I would rather that than have one decent player (as with Zouma) who, when he gets injured or marked out of the game, takes all of our attacking prowess with him.

[Sir David Gray]

If you have a 'creative player' it normally means that you have ten cluggers and one bloke (usually wee) who has a vague notion of what's going on.

Persoanally I'd rather have ten players comfortable on the ball who can see and make a pass.

:agree: Wee folk (vaguely) ken whit's gaun oan!

Sorry, couldn't resist! :greengrin

[Speedway]

You know what I mean. When fit, zouma did the unexpected. He changed the pace and the play. Thornhill looks an excellent buy, I really like him. But hes not the creative fantasista type. But as already has been said, maybe CC doesnt want one.

He was breathtaking for three out of the 10 games a season he was fit for. He was pushed off the ball all game in five of them and disinterested if it was a wee bit nippy in the other two.

Often akin to being a man down, I haven't missed him. You can't miss a player who is rarely on the pitch. He goes to Middlesborough, plays ten games, gets injured. Quelle surprise. He was an archetypical 'passenger' and luxury that we couldn't afford.

Now, who are the playmakers in the Yams side that finished 3rd last season?

[hibsbollah]

Now, who are the playmakers in the Yams side that finished 3rd last season? Great. Maybe we should try to be just like them.

[smurf]

Great. Maybe we should try to be just like them.

3rd this season? Yes please.

[hibsbollah]

3rd this season? Yes please. Jeez. They got 3rd because they pay better wages, not because they didnt have a playmaker.

[HiBremian]

Now, who are the playmakers in the Yams side that finished 3rd last season?

Nade?




Sorry, must have been thinking cheesemakers.

[The Falcon]

I watched it on the highlights eagerly expecting to see something Iniestaesque, and lets be honest, Nid just hits a ball into space which a wide-open GOC runs onto. It wasnt anything special.

I thought it was an excellent through ball that had it been Zemmama, and not Murray, that hit it some would have been drooling at his "vision".

[smurf]

Jeez. They got 3rd because they pay better wages, not because they didnt have a playmaker.

That wasn't my point. My point was that this season I want results.

Us winning football matches. And you know what I don't care how we win. Just win please.

[Seveno]

If you have a 'playmaker', the opposition know immediately how to stop you playing your the game. Ask Liam Miller.

Having a team of fast, fit players that can create space for a simple pass is more likely to succeed in the long term.

[Seveno]

He was breathtaking for three out of the 10 games a season he was fit for. He was pushed off the ball all game in five of them and disinterested if it was a wee bit nippy in the other two.

Often akin to being a man down, I haven't missed him. You can't miss a player who is rarely on the pitch. He goes to Middlesborough, plays ten games, gets injured. Quelle surprise. He was an archetypical 'passenger' and luxury that we couldn't afford.

Now, who are the playmakers in the Yams side that finished 3rd last season?

He also had the habit of holding on to the ball for too long, allowing the opposition to get back behind the ball.

[R'Albin]

Out of interest has anyone actually seen Osbourne, he could be a playmaker for all we know?

Although I'm also of the opinion that we just need 11 players that can pass a ball, and that we have a different variety of players, as oppose to relying on one man to produce the goods.

[Jonnyboy]

I watched it on the highlights eagerly expecting to see something Iniestaesque, and lets be honest, Nid just hits a ball into space which a wide-open GOC runs onto. It wasnt anything special.

Bit harsh Mr bollah :wink: Watch it again and you'll see IM looking for GOC before playing the pass. Still not Iniesta likes :greengrin

[Franck is God]

If you have a 'creative player' it normally means that you have ten cluggers and one bloke (usually wee) who has a vague notion of what's going on.

Persoanally I'd rather have ten players comfortable on the ball who can see and make a pass.

Thats how I see it too.

Even last week against Sunderland late on in the game when we pretty much had our under 19 side on the pitch there were a couple of lovely passing moves that really opened them up a bit. We have plenty quality in the team and for a change it has a bit of fight and determination to go with it and it was that fight that got us the 3 points up at ICT.

[Mon Dieu4]

Its my worry too. The signings have been good, but weve never replaced Zemmama.

You and me have a different outlook on the game to most though, although I can handle Hibs winning by any means necessary we like to see players try the outrageous as to us thats what makes it all worthwhile, sure it doesnt always work but when it does it makes it all the sweeter :wink:

[patlowe]

It's a tough one as entertainers like Latapy are what we all want to see but how regularly do these guys come about? Even at the biggest clubs. Let alone for 2k a week.

[crash]

It's a tough one as entertainers like Latapy are what we all want to see but how regularly do these guys come about? Even at the biggest clubs. Let alone for 2k a week.
We had one in Zemmama and Calderwood let him go, probably could have got Hasselbaink, thats two for a start without looking.

[hibsbollah]

You and me have a different outlook on the game to most though, although I can handle Hibs winning by any means necessary we like to see players try the outrageous as to us thats what makes it all worthwhile, sure it doesnt always work but when it does it makes it all the sweeter :wink: Well you know me :-) Zemmama had his faults, he wasnt the chosen one (or Russell). But he made you buy a ticket. Id like to see us bring something unexpected to the table.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

I'd love to see Zouma(or that type of player)in the team we seem to be building now. Zemmama was at Hibs at a time when we were pathetically weak and had a different midfield every wk, never with an average height of more than 5' 5". We got bullied out of games. Perfect example was Ibrox two seasons ago when we eventually lost 3-0. We had them on toast first half then Zouma started getting battered about the place, elbowed in the face by Boyd etc. We didnt have any strength in the team to give it back to them. Villa are my English team and ive watched Ozzy quite a bit coming thru the reserves, he certainly wont take any **** like what went on at Ibrox that day. A solid midfield of Ozzy and Palsson with Zouma actually getting some protection and space would have bn great :-( I can kind of appreciate why we let him go but I'd like to see someone creative like that brought in again

[Baker9]

Don't need one. It's the SPL. Let's just destroy anything that gets in our path.

:hilarious

[hibsfan7]

THORNHILL





:not worth:not worth:not worth:not worth:not worth:not worth:not worth

[Dashing Bob S]

Who dat playmayka?

[proud_and_green]

Well I say we should stop fretting and lets just set about pistol-whipping the rest of the SPL.

Seriously though I do not share peoples concern on this one. We have been crying out for quality throughout the squad and we now have it. I would rather that than have one decent player (as with Zouma) who, when he gets injured or marked out of the game, takes all of our attacking prowess with him.

Absolutely agree with this. The frustration of recent years watching Hibs was seeing the team play well in parts just to drop away. We need a full team not a bunch of journeymen built round one or two players. And that team needs to be able to play for the full 90 minutes.

[Speedway]

We had one in Zemmama and Calderwood let him go, probably could have got Hasselbaink, thats two for a start without looking.

Enough with this Hasselbaink love in. Have you seen his stats? Scores one goal in every seven games in his career so far and I accept he's only 20/21 but we've signed 3 strikers this summer who have got better records than that, two of them in Hibs colours.

When his deal at the Accies was up there was such fierce competition for his signature, the financial muscle and world stage offered by the Buddies was too much for anyone to compete with.


Well you know me :-) Zemmama had his faults, he wasnt the chosen one (or Russell). But he made you buy a ticket. Id like to see us bring something unexpected to the table.

He made you buy a ticket only to find out he wasn't playing.

[O'Rourke3]

I'm in the 10 guys who can control a footlball camp. Charlie Adam aside for Blackpool not too many Premiership teams had that type of individual last season. Who is Man U's go to guy, or Chelsea's, or Arsenals. They fill the team with talent and don't rely on any single player. The stand out guy in most teams is the captain and it's usually his effort and drive that get's the team going, not the need to play everything through him. Gerrard gets Liverpool going by leading from the front. I want 11 (+7) guys like that playing for my team.

[CapitalHibs]

Absolutely agree with this. The frustration of recent years watching Hibs was seeing the team play well in parts just to drop away. We need a full team not a bunch of journeymen built round one or two players. And that team needs to be able to play for the full 90 minutes.

Totally agree. I'd reckon the last time we had this was the Famous Five. Although I never saw the FF play, I've followed Hibs for over 50 years and in my time seen plently of tanner baw players in a Hibs team Bobby Johnstone (second time around) Dave Gibson, Pat Quinn. Wille Hamilton, Alec Edwards, Ally Macleod, Mickey Weir, Latapy, Zemmama etc - Great entertainers all and a joy to watch - very little on the Tropy winning stakes unfortunately. It is what Hibs are all about.Just hope CC sticks around for a while. Feel that his approach to the game will get us playing good football and getting the honours.

[The Falcon]

Enough with this Hasselbaink love in. Have you seen his stats? Scores one goal in every seven games in his career so far and I accept he's only 20/21 but we've signed 3 strikers this summer who have got better records than that, two of them in Hibs colours.



This'll be the same Hasselbank who got himself sent off last week when his team were well on top? And whose team got relegated last season?

[Albion Hibs]

Wotherspoon is the real creative player on our books. Unfortunately he's a young laddie, who has the support on his back.


I agree with you there i think Wotherspoon has the potential to be absolutle outstanding! Time for people to keep of his back!!

Dont agree with the above, have not heard anything from the fans towards Wotherspoon despite consistantly pretty poor performances. In fairness I actually think he has had it pretty good. I dont think he will be an outstanding player, but he is certainly much better than his recent preformances would have us believe. I am confident he will come on to a game.

In relation to the playmaker I think the majority of our midfield can pick a pass, Thornhill may be the most creative, time will tell on that front. I think the likes of Sproule and Osborne will also be significant in terms of making things happen going forward.

[erin go bragh]

Horner :dunno:
ggtth

[crash]

I'm in the 10 guys who can control a footlball camp. Charlie Adam aside for Blackpool not too many Premiership teams had that type of individual last season. Who is Man U's go to guy, or Chelsea's, or Arsenals. They fill the team with talent and don't rely on any single player. The stand out guy in most teams is the captain and it's usually his effort and drive that get's the team going, not the need to play everything through him. Gerrard gets Liverpool going by leading from the front. I want 11 (+7) guys like that playing for my team.

Man utd go to Nani and Young, Chelsea Lampard and Essien, Arsenal Fabregas and Wilshere. To me the "10 guys who can control a football" should be a given, you need a couple of players in the team who can unlock a defence.

[O'Rourke3]

Man utd go to Nani and Young, Chelsea Lampard and Essien, Arsenal Fabregas and Wilshere. To me the "10 guys who can control a football" should be a given, you need a couple of players in the team who can unlock a defence.

Sorta make the point, these are ands and not ors. Agree you need guys who can unlock defences. Nani aside most of these names missed a lot of last season through injury and yet all still made the top 4.

[hibsbollah]

Dont agree with the above, have not heard anything from the fans towards Wotherspoon despite consistantly pretty poor performances. In fairness I actually think he has had it pretty good. I dont think he will be an outstanding player, but he is certainly much better than his recent preformances would have us believe. I am confident he will come on to a game. In relation to the playmaker I think the majority of our midfield can pick a pass, Thornhill may be the most creative, time will tell on that front. I think the likes of Sproule and Osborne will also be significant in terms of making things happen going forward.Theres a complete phanny near me whos been loudly abusing Spoony at recent games. During the celtc game (when he was, admittedly, very poor throughout) im pretty sure Spoony heard as we're near the front of the East. Not good for his confidence, folk forget hes so young.

[crash]

Sorta make the point, these are ands and not ors. Agree you need guys who can unlock defences. Nani aside most of these names missed a lot of last season through injury and yet all still made the top 4.

Sorry but that statement is incorrect. Fabregas played 25, Wilshere 35 ,Lampard 24 Essien 33, Nani 33 Young 34 in the EPL last season.

[O'Rourke3]

Sorry but that statement is incorrect. Fabregas played 25, Wilshere 35 ,Lampard 24 Essien 33, Nani 33 Young 34 in the EPL last season.

Fair do's. Watching match of the day after a few beers Lampard, Essien, Fabregas, Wilshere often seemed to be missing. Young wasn't playing for United but I take the point you were trying to make. Each of these guys make a big difference but any one of them missing didn't ruin the team they were playing for.

[basehibby]

He was breathtaking for three out of the 10 games a season he was fit for. He was pushed off the ball all game in five of them and disinterested if it was a wee bit nippy in the other two.

Often akin to being a man down, I haven't missed him. You can't miss a player who is rarely on the pitch. He goes to Middlesborough, plays ten games, gets injured. Quelle surprise. He was an archetypical 'passenger' and luxury that we couldn't afford.

Now, who are the playmakers in the Yams side that finished 3rd last season?

Bit unfair on Zouma IMO - ok he was often injured but he had great attitude when on the pitch and was always an asset when he played.

Would like to see a playmaker type but don't see it as the main signing priority at the moment.

[crash]

Fair do's. Watching match of the day after a few beers Lampard, Essien, Fabregas, Wilshere often seemed to be missing. Young wasn't playing for United but I take the point you were trying to make. Each of these guys make a big difference but any one of them missing didn't ruin the team they were playing for.

Thats a bit of a contradiction if youre saying they made a big difference. Arsenal werent the same team without Fabregas, nor were Chelsea without Lampard. Thats the difference between winning things or being an also ran.

[O'Rourke3]

Thats a bit of a contradiction if youre saying they made a big difference. Arsenal werent the same team without Fabregas, nor were Chelsea without Lampard. Thats the difference between winning things or being an also ran.

OK My final word on this thread. I stated by stating I'd rather have ball players through the team than rely on effort and a playmaker. Using an observation that one central player per team isn't the way of the Premiership and an untested casual observation that the 3 main teams over the last few years don't rely on one guy, you point out that the stats. The point being debated now seems to be whether good teams are better or worse off with their starting 11 or not. Fairly simply, worse. Hibs without Stanton, Collins, Latapy, Sauzee, were not as good as the team with them in. Take Messi out of Barca and they aren't the same team, but it doen't make them a bad team or a team with no alternatives. If you look carefully, I agreed that having a couple of players in the team capable of unpicking a defence or making a decent pass is a good thing.

So I don't agree that I've contradicted anything I've said previously. If that's how it's been read, put that down to the fact that most people typing stuff like this make the odd mistake or mean one thing but gets interpreted as something else.

[Albion Hibs]

Theres a complete phanny near me whos been loudly abusing Spoony at recent games. During the celtc game (when he was, admittedly, very poor throughout) im pretty sure Spoony heard as we're near the front of the East. Not good for his confidence, folk forget hes so young.

It is part and parcel of the game, the worlds best have had abuse, if he is playing ***** then he like any other deserves it. The real scale is how he reacts to it, if he ups his game then brilliant, but at the same time I guess we cant afford a bubble wrapped player.

[Expecting Rain]

The left back.

[HibbyAndy]

Thornhill.

[Dan Sarf]

Apologies for digging up a thread from 12th August 2011 - especially to those who said things then that maybe they don't think now. I'm not trying to score points or put anyone down for getting it wrong back then (who didn't?)

But read it again... and weep at all our hopes.

I watched the game (on the box) and wondered what has changed?

Nothing.

We've now got fresh supplies of fit young men with haunted looks on their faces, desperately bashing the ball in the direction of the opposition's goal posts or corner flags. Over and over again without success. And still no-one who can craft a startling, unexpected, defence splitting, genius ball that no-one else could see but him. The kind of pass we stand up and applaud.

Well why not ffs? :grr:

[Spike Mandela]

Apologies for digging up a thread from 12th August 2011 - especially to those who said things then that maybe they don't think now. I'm not trying to score points or put anyone down for getting it wrong back then (who didn't?)

But read it again... and weep at all our hopes.

I watched the game (on the box) and wondered what has changed?

Nothing.

We've now got fresh supplies of fit young men with haunted looks on their faces, desperately bashing the ball in the direction of the opposition's goal posts or corner flags. Over and over again without success. And still no-one who can craft a startling, unexpected, defence splitting, genius ball that no-one else could see but him. The kind of pass we stand up and applaud.

Well why not ffs? :grr:

Oh what we would give for a Brown, Boozy, Latapy, Collins or even a Liam Miller type. Anyone that can keep the ball, see a forwards run and provide an assist or 10. Even the clamour to get Claros back surprises me as for all his attributes he isn't the type to be creating assists and scoring goals. This should have been our priority in the summer and hasn't been addressed............yet(hopefully).