Message to you Rod/Turmoil

[bawheid]

Correct. I've said this before, look at the money that Dundee Utd have got for their top players in the last few years when they've made it clear that they need to sell, and look at what we've reaped from our stand point.

Yep.

Hibs haven't "needed" to sell since we sold Kenny Miller. I'm sure it transpired later that we weren't that far off going into administration and the sale of Miller was absolutely necessary.

It's that lack of "needing" to sell that has allowed us to get £4.4m for Brown, £2m for Thomson, etc, etc.

Credit for the board though? Nah...anyone could have done it. :wink:

[Beefster]

Forgive me, though I was also referring to other posters who had stated more clearly that they believe that the board don't deserve praise for their achievements.

FWIW, saying that someone does something well but then saying that it isn't hard to do, is pretty faint praise in my book! :greengrin

But I appreciate much of what you're saying, despite disagreeing on a few points.

I've only ever said that, while they deserve credit, they don't deserve the copious credit that they get. Certain board members were very responsible when we overspent so there was an element of sorting out their own mess and, without the 'golden generation', we'd likely still be suffering the consequences.

[Mikey]

If you keep saying it enough, it might even come true!!

There are a few on here who I'm sure just use Copy & Paste.

On both sides.

And it's pretty sad really that we have "sides" but that's the way it's gone.

[bawheid]

I've only ever said that, while they deserve credit, they don't deserve the copious credit that they get. Certain board members were very responsible when we overspent so there was an element of sorting out their own mess and, without the 'golden generation', we'd likely still be suffering the consequences.

I've seen this a few times. Who was in charge of the club when the golden generation came though the ranks?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Correct. I've said this before, look at the money that Dundee Utd have got for their top players in the last few years when they've made it clear that they need to sell, and look at what we've reaped from our stand point.

Aberdeen had more or less the same standard of team as the Hibs "golden generation" (when did this nonsense start?) and got about £1M for Russell Anderson and, er, that's it. Their only route to solvency now is to hope Government buys Pittodrie off them and builds a new ground for them.

[Spike Mandela]

"I think" and "will understand" yet you continue to use 'definite' words like "will not" rather than "will probably not". As I've said Petrie will more than likely have a very good idea of whether Calderwood wants to go or not.

I haven't clarified anything because I don't know what is happening behind the scenes other than the statements made by the club. Don't believe any of the nonsense that you read on here. If folk genuinely had any idea what was going on, Calderwood would be long gone and O'Neill, no, Strachan, no, Irvine, no, Bollan, no, Collins would have been appointed by now.

I'm sure you also believe Rebekah Brookes and Andy Coulson knew nothing of the practices at the NOTW because they errrrrmmmmm said so.

Look Beefster should we get to the point of ptotentially signing a couple of players on long term deals using up what is left of our transfer budget I would expect our board, nay demand our board receive 100% assurances that CC is commited to Hibs for the season ahead. Until such assurances are given the board wouldn't be doing their job properly by sanctioning his signing targets.

Surely you don't need 'evidence' of this it's just common sense.

[Cropley10]

The Football Club is losing £2 Million a year.

The Football Team finished TENTH in the SPL with early departures in all cup competition.

And we go through Managers more than Romanov does at the Yams.

Season ticket numbers are falling. Only the hardcore are renewing.

We are a shambles. Utter incompetence with no answers or leadership. This pre season should have been about addressing what went wrong last season. We haven't and we won't. Depressingly we will yet again struggle next season. It's a yes from me.

No Smurf we must continually applaud the Board for getting £4.4m for Brown, £2m for Whittaker and so on. Lets not forget that we've won a Cup and played in Europe as well.

As it stands I've renewed my 2 STs - I'll be there this season. And it will be interesting to see how our fortunes develop and how long we can cling on to the past, in the face of these facts.

[Removed]

There are a few on here who I'm sure just use Copy & Paste.

On both sides.

And it's pretty sad really that we have "sides" but that's the way it's gone.

We should just have a big game of British bulldogs to sort it out :agree:

[Stevie Reid]

I've only ever said that, while they deserve credit, they don't deserve the copious credit that they get. Certain board members were very responsible when we overspent so there was an element of sorting out their own mess and, without the 'golden generation', we'd likely still be suffering the consequences.

You weren't one of the posters I had in mind Beefster, in fact I was just about to quote and agree with one of your recents posts!

[Beefster]

I've seen this a few times. Who was in charge of the club when the golden generation came though the ranks?

You're suggesting that Rodders is responsible for the 'golden generation'? Seriously?

When is he going to do it again? The team could do with the financial boost.


You weren't one of the posters I had in mind Beefster, in fact I was just about to quote and agree with one of your recents posts!

To be fair, I didn't think it was directed at me. Just wanted to clarify my position. Again!

[Stevie Reid]

"I think" and "will understand" yet you continue to use 'definite' words like "will not" rather than "will probably not". As I've said Petrie will more than likely have a very good idea of whether Calderwood wants to go or not.

I haven't clarified anything because I don't know what is happening behind the scenes other than the statements made by the club. Don't believe any of the nonsense that you read on here. If folk genuinely had any idea what was going on, Calderwood would be long gone and O'Neill, no, Strachan, no, Irvine, no, Bollan, no, Collins would have been appointed by now.

:agree:

See.

[bawheid]

No Smurf we must continually applaud the Board for getting £4.4m for Brown, £2m for Whittaker and so on. Lets not forget that we've won a Cup and played in Europe as well.

As it stands I've renewed my 2 STs - I'll be there this season. And it will be interesting to see how our fortunes develop and how long we can cling on to the past, in the face of these facts.

It's about credit where it's due C.

Hibernian FC did well to first of all bring through those players, and second of all sell them for big money. Others failed. The club therefore deserves credit.

Ah, but we'd be in a right mess if it wasn't for...errr...bringing several Scottish internationalists through our youth system and...ummm... selling them on for big money...

[blackpoolhibs]

The football side of things are a shambles imo, i personally think we will struggle this season. In my opinion we wont challenge for europe, i cant see us winning any of the cups, or even making great inroads in them, although you never know.

Of the park things look fine, Petrie has done a great job with the finances, i vote he stays but we have some other system when appointing managers, what i have no idea?

[bawheid]

You're suggesting that Rodders is responsible for the 'golden generation'? Seriously?

When is he going to do it again? The team could do with the financial boost.


That's where the buck stops is it not? In good times and bad.

Or am I confused?

[Beefster]

I'm sure you also believe Rebekah Brookes and Andy Coulson knew nothing of the practices at the NOTW because they errrrrmmmmm said so.

Look Beefster should we get to the point of ptotentially signing a couple of players on long term deals using up what is left of our transfer budget I would expect our board, nay demand our board receive 100% assurances that CC is commited to Hibs for the season ahead. Until such assurances are given the board wouldn't be doing their job properly by sanctioning his signing targets.

Surely you don't need 'evidence' of this it's just common sense.

We more or less had John Rankin, Colin Nish and Danny Galbraith signed before Mixu and Hughes were appointed. All it needed was a 'yes' from the new manager. There will have been more in the same position.

I'd expect player recruitment to be carrying on. It may take an extra chat with the player/agent to tell them the realities of life but I don't believe that all recruitment is in limbo.

[smurf]

If you keep saying it enough, it might even come true!!

What exactly is Hibernian Football Club?

Is it not a professional football club? And how exactly is the football club doing?

Tenth finish in the mediocre SPL. Scottish Cup exit at Ayr Utd.

Now we have our (lost count) manager in the past ten years who publicly wants out.

Anyone really got any confidence in our current squad?

We are a shambles.

What will it take to confirm it?

[Spike Mandela]

We more or less had John Rankin, Colin Nish and Danny Galbraith signed before Mixu and Hughes were appointed. All it needed was a 'yes' from the new manager. There will have been more in the same position.

I'd expect player recruitment to be carrying on. It may take an extra chat with the player/agent to tell them the realities of life but I don't believe that all recruitment is in limbo.

I agree Beefster but of course any new man may say no and want his own signings. Until CC commits the whole thing, if not indeed in limbo, is just messy.

[Beefster]

That's where the buck stops is it not? In good times and bad.

Or am I confused?

I think that you're confused, to be honest.

I can make a direct case for the Hibs board being criticised for the debt levels 10 years ago. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board being too conservative in their thinking. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board not doing enough to grow the revenue.

I can make a direct case for the Hibs board deserving credit for the capital investment in the last x years. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board deserving credit for the investment in youth development in the last x years. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board deserving credit for putting their available resources into the team.

You can't made a direct case for the Hibs board or Rodders being responsible for the development of so many good players in the same period. Feel free to try though.

I don't blame Rodders and co for the ***** teams, the pishy tactics, the player development etc etc but I won't give him credit for them either.

[smurf]

The football side of things are a shambles imo, i personally think we will struggle this season. In my opinion we wont challenge for europe, i cant see us winning any of the cups, or even making great inroads in them, although you never know.

Of the park things look fine, Petrie has done a great job with the finances, i vote he stays but we have some other system when appointing managers, what i have no idea?

That's what we've become.

We judge the club. The company.

The team... The actual football team. What's that got to do with it...

[bawheid]

We are a shambles.

What will it take to confirm it?

I reckon if you say it another ten times, that'll be it confirmed. :agree:

FACT.

[Stevie Reid]

No Smurf we must continually applaud the Board for getting £4.4m for Brown, £2m for Whittaker and so on. Lets not forget that we've won a Cup and played in Europe as well.

As it stands I've renewed my 2 STs - I'll be there this season. And it will be interesting to see how our fortunes develop and how long we can cling on to the past, in the face of these facts.

I think it's a bit harsh to say that acknowledging our success in winning a cup in 2007, and the fact that we played in Europe less than a year ago (however short the campaign was), is 'clinging to the past'.

I'm not going to quote our achievements whilst getting out of £17M debt again (though if we don't acknowledge our considerable successes then we will never be happy), but I think it's fair to say that overall we have been treading water since we won the League Cup (I think that's fair with three 6th place finishes, along with finishing as high as 4th and as low as 10th).

Although we would like things to be better, I can live with treading water for a certain period of time - to accelerate forward after wiping out all of that debt and winning the cup would have been great, but unfortunately a lot of money has been squandered by backing managers who have only succeeded in having the support (largely) turn against them (largely with poor quality football belying our final standings in the league).

We are still in a strong position off the field, and the ridiculous situation with CC notwithstanding, we are still trying to improve the squad with Sheridan coming in on trial. Is our current position ideal? No. Is it insurmountable? Never in a million years.

[EasterRoad4Ever]

He isn't protecting the club, he's took this opportunity to protect his own arse, I think he can't believe his luck that other clubs are wanting him and he's using this as perfect timing to make out that he hasn't appointed a dud.

Agree with this.

[bawheid]

I think that you're confused, to be honest.

I can make a direct case for the Hibs board being criticised for the debt levels 10 years ago. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board being too conservative in their thinking. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board not doing enough to grow the revenue.

I can make a direct case for the Hibs board deserving credit for the capital investment in the last x years. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board deserving credit for the investment in youth development in the last x years. I can make a direct case for the Hibs board deserving credit for putting their available resources into the team.

You can't made a direct case for the Hibs board or Rodders being responsible for the development of so many good players in the same period. Feel free to try though.

I don't blame Rodders and co for the ***** teams, the pishy tactics, the player development etc etc but I won't give him credit for them either.

Those at the top of the organisation should take the credit, or otherwise, for everything.

Rodders and co are to blame for the ***** teams, pishy tactics, etc. They also deserve credit when the club produces a good player, or wins a cup, etc.

[smurf]

I reckon if you say it another ten times, that'll be it confirmed. :agree:

FACT.

Why don't you actually engage in the debate? Because it didn't escape me that you completely ignored my response to your previous like-for-like non reply.:wink:

[EasterRoad4Ever]

I think it's a bit harsh to say that acknowledging our success in winning a cup in 2007, and the fact that we played in Europe less than a year ago (however short the campaign was), is 'clinging to the past'.

I'm not going to quote our achievements whilsti getting out of £17M debt again (though if we don't acknowledge our considerable successes then we will never be happy), but I think it's fair to say that overall we have been treading water since we won the League Cup (I think that's fair with three 6th place finishes, along with finishing as high as 4th and as low as 10th).

Although we would like things to be better, I can live with treading water for a certain period of time - to accelerate forward after wiping out all of that debt and winning the cup would have been great, but unfortunately a lot of money has been squandered by backing managers who have only succeeded in having the support (largely) turn against them (largely with poor quality football belying our final standings in the league).

We are still in a strong position off the field, and the ridiculous situation with CC notwithstanding, we are still trying to improve the squad with Sheridan coming in on trial. Is our current position ideal? No. Is it insurmountable? Never in a million years.

Far from treading water, we have been on a deep downward spiral since 2007. Ask any Hibs fan what the quality of football has been like for the last 2 years, the quality of the signings, the attitude of the players, and you get the answer - probably as bad as anyone can recall.

The atmosphere at Hibs matches has verged on poisonous and apathetic. And the acid test is sales of STs.

[blackpoolhibs]

Far from treading water, we have been on a deep downward spiral since 2007. Ask any Hibs fan what the quality of football has been like for the last 2 years, the quality of the signings, the attitude of the players, and you get the answer - probably as bad as anyone can recall.

The atmosphere at Hibs matches has verged on poisonous and apathetic. And the acid test is sales of STs.

Yip, :agree: and some people think it would only be a minority who would turn on Calderwood after his first defeat if he stayed.

[bawheid]

Why don't you actually engage in the debate? Because it didn't escape me that you completely ignored my response to your previous like-for-like non reply.:wink:

Ok, but we've done it hundreds of times before.


What exactly is Hibernian Football Club?

Is it not a professional football club? And how exactly is the football club doing?

Tenth finish in the mediocre SPL. Scottish Cup exit at Ayr Utd.

Now we have our (lost count) manager in the past ten years who publicly wants out.

Anyone really got any confidence in our current squad?

We are a shambles.

What will it take to confirm it?

How exactly is the football club doing? Last season...not so good. Last five years? Not too bad? Last ten years? Better than the previous ten?

It depends which snapshot you take.

Confidence in the current squad? Well, more so than I did at the end of last season. I think we've added well so far, we've got a decent player lined up in Sheridan, and it's very likely more will follow towards the end of the window.

From what I can work out, Petrie should be sacked because two large English clubs are interested in our manager and he's fighting our corner.

[Stevie Reid]

That's what we've become.

We judge the club. The company.

The team... The actual football team. What's that got to do with it...

What are our markers for success on the park? League positions and cup competitions, and on both, we've done pretty well in the last few years - ok we might not have had a good cup run since 2007, but I wouldn't swap that day for anything, and I'd much rather things were this way, than have had a good cup run every year for 5 years without actually winning anything.

With regards to the league, this is our first bottom 6 finish since 2003-04, and in between then and last season's 10th place finish, we finished 3rd, 4th, 6th (3 times running), and 4th. Finishing 6th isn't great, but it certainly isn't terrible.

The trouble with many on here is that even when we score well using these markers, people are all too willing to dismiss our achievements on the back of the poor season that we have just had - and even when we have achieved, are all too willing to dismiss the way we've done it (being lucky under Hughes until February for example, before not accepting qualifying for Europe due to how we finished the season).

Not everthing has been perfect during that time - far, far from it, some of the football under Collins, Mixu, Hughes and Calderwood has been of the eye bleeding variety. But at the same time the last few seasons (apart from last year of course) have not been the barren disasters that many on here are willing to make out.

[proud_and_green]

Great post but unfortunately rodders and tom (ive got a knighthood btw !) are owners of the club and we are stuck with them..

wish we could fire them both, i ok great at saving a club and cutting costs, selling the best players but ***** at anything else.

This is a Monty Python sketch isn't it!!!

[Spike Mandela]

Clutching at straws smiley required no?

Not suggesting that current situ is ideal but who do you suppose invited said player for trial and intends to run the rule over him then?

Agent suggests trial to CC or RP or SL or anyone at Hibs and all parties discuss and agree trial. Who knows?

If Sheridan is now signed on a 3 year deal( not a 3-6 month no risk deal) then I will concede that transfer dealings are carrying on as normal.

However those who suggest a player on trial means all in the garden is rosy are the ones clutching at straws.

[Stevie Reid]

Far from treading water, we have been on a deep downward spiral since 2007. Ask any Hibs fan what the quality of football has been like for the last 2 years, the quality of the signings, the attitude of the players, and you get the answer - probably as bad as anyone can recall.

The atmosphere at Hibs matches has verged on poisonous and apathetic. And the acid test is sales of STs.

That's simply not true given that we had one of our highest ever SPL finishes in 2009-10. This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about in my post immediately before this one (and I do talk about how bad the football has been at times) - things have been far from great at times, but we are not on a downward spiral. We had good times after the cup win under Collins (7 wins from 9 at the start of the following season), Mixu (securing top 6 finish weeks before the split after taking over from JC with 7 wins from his first 12 games), and Hughes (2009-10 season until February, best defence in the UK at one point) - they haven't lasted but it doesn't add up to a downward spiral, more up and down I would say (exemplified by 4th place and Europe followed by 10th place).

The atmosphere at the games has verged on poisonous and apathetic, I certainly agree - but it's not just Petrie/the manager/the players who are responsible for that.

[blackpoolhibs]

What are our markers for success on the park? League positions and cup competitions, and on both, we've done pretty well in the last few years - ok we might not have had a good cup run since 2007, but I wouldn't swap that day for anything, and I'd much rather things were this way, than have had a good cup run every year for 5 years without actually winning anything.

With regards to the league, this is our first bottom 6 finish since 2003-04, and in between then and last season's 10th place finish, we finished 3rd, 4th, 6th (3 times running), and 4th. Finishing 6th isn't great, but it certainly isn't terrible.

The trouble with many on here is that even when we score well using these markers, people are all too willing to dismiss our achievements on the back of the poor season that we have just had - and even when we have achieved, are all too willing to dismiss the way we've done it (being lucky under Hughes until February for example, before not accepting qualifying for Europe due to how we finished the season).

Not everthing has been perfect during that time - far, far from it, some of the football under Collins, Mixu, Hughes and Calderwood has been of the eye bleeding variety. But at the same time the last few seasons (apart from last year of course) have not been the barren disasters that many on here are willing to make out.

Yip i agree with a lot of that, and when you consider how we have reduced the debt and built new training facilities and a new stand, its close to miraculous.:top marks

I think cup wins and 4th place finishes are what we should aspire to every season, and when we actually do it, should appreciate it, its not like we do achieve them very often.:confused:

What i find worrying though, is the eye bleeding football. And the dramatic reduction of quality in such a short space of time (2007). I know there are reasons why, but there are no good reasons why we finished 10th last season.

Our club just on spending power should never finish 10th. Completely the managers fault, previous and current.

[Stevie Reid]

Yip i agree with a lot of that, and when you consider how we have reduced the debt and built new training facilities and a new stand, its close to miraculous.:top marks

I think cup wins and 4th place finishes are what we should aspire to every season, and when we actually do it, should appreciate it, its not like we do achieve them very often.:confused:

What i find worrying though, is the eye bleeding football. And the dramatic reduction of quality in such a short space of time (2007). I know there are reasons why, but there are no good reasons why we finished 10th last season.

Our club just on spending power should never finish 10th. Completely the managers fault, previous and current.

:agree:

[Cropley10]

It's about credit where it's due C.

Hibernian FC did well to first of all bring through those players, and second of all sell them for big money. Others failed. The club therefore deserves credit.

Ah, but we'd be in a right mess if it wasn't for...errr...bringing several Scottish internationalists through our youth system and...ummm... selling them on for big money...

I'm in complete agreement! But that was then and this is now. I never said don't sell them and never said they weren't sold for good money.

The job they did well then is not something they're going to be able to repeat any time soon, so it's time to show they can still do a good job in different circumstances.

[ahibby]

I think that all the shambles that has gone on has resulted in falling crowds and that is likely to continue. I think that Rod either fixes that or he should admit that they are getting things wrong and can't fix it, in which case he and others should go. I don't believe Rod comes up with all the ideas that's why others should follow him out the door if they don't get it right and crowds continue to fall.

[bawheid]

I'm in complete agreement! But that was then and this is now. I never said don't sell them and never said they weren't sold for good money.

The job they did well then is not something they're going to be able to repeat any time soon, so it's time to show they can still do a good job in different circumstances.

I agree. This strand of the debate came about because it was suggested that Hibs "got lucky" with the players that came through. That's fine, but it can't be good luck when things go well and poor management / leadership when things go badly.

I think we've got some decent players coming through, by the way.

[Gatecrasher]

What are our markers for success on the park? League positions and cup competitions, and on both, we've done pretty well in the last few years - ok we might not have had a good cup run since 2007, but I wouldn't swap that day for anything, and I'd much rather things were this way, than have had a good cup run every year for 5 years without actually winning anything.

With regards to the league, this is our first bottom 6 finish since 2003-04, and in between then and last season's 10th place finish, we finished 3rd, 4th, 6th (3 times running), and 4th. Finishing 6th isn't great, but it certainly isn't terrible.

The trouble with many on here is that even when we score well using these markers, people are all too willing to dismiss our achievements on the back of the poor season that we have just had - and even when we have achieved, are all too willing to dismiss the way we've done it (being lucky under Hughes until February for example, before not accepting qualifying for Europe due to how we finished the season).

Not everthing has been perfect during that time - far, far from it, some of the football under Collins, Mixu, Hughes and Calderwood has been of the eye bleeding variety. But at the same time the last few seasons (apart from last year of course) have not been the barren disasters that many on here are willing to make out.


Yip i agree with a lot of that, and when you consider how we have reduced the debt and built new training facilities and a new stand, its close to miraculous.:top marks

I think cup wins and 4th place finishes are what we should aspire to every season, and when we actually do it, should appreciate it, its not like we do achieve them very often.:confused:

What i find worrying though, is the eye bleeding football. And the dramatic reduction of quality in such a short space of time (2007). I know there are reasons why, but there are no good reasons why we finished 10th last season.

Our club just on spending power should never finish 10th. Completely the managers fault, previous and current.

i agree with both posts

[Stevie Reid]

I'm in complete agreement! But that was then and this is now. I never said don't sell them and never said they weren't sold for good money.

The job they did well then is not something they're going to be able to repeat any time soon, so it's time to show they can still do a good job in different circumstances.

Whilst I very much agree that it looks highly unlikely, who would have seriously thought that at the end of BW's tenure we would sell £12M of talent in the next few years? Riordan looked excellent and was scoring well (but we didn't actually make much money from his transfer in any case), but who else looked likely to hit the heights?

Kevin Thomson looked pretty good but had a serious knee injury at that time, Scott Brown looked good, but no one could imagine that we'd get £5.5M for him. Garry O'Connor had been written off by many. Fletcher emerged from the youth team, and then followed David Murphy on a free and Ivan Sproule cost £5K.

Four youngsters and a couple of bits of good transfer business made us £12M - when you read it like that, it doesn't sound impossible that it should happen again, despite how unlikely it would seem now.

[Beefster]

I agree. This strand of the debate came about because it was suggested that Hibs "got lucky" with the players that came through. That's fine, but it can't be good luck when things go well and poor management / leadership when things go badly.

I think we've got some decent players coming through, by the way.

Has anyone actually said that it's down to crappy management by the board that we don't have good players coming through?

You're not comparing apples with apples.

[bawheid]

Has anyone actually said that it's down to crappy management by the board that we don't have good players coming through?

You're not comparing apples with apples.

As the OP keeps on reminding us, we are a football club. The board is in charge of the football club and everything that happens within it. They should take credit when things go well (e.g. winning a cup or producing a Scotland international) and they should take flak when things go badly (e.g. finishing 10th in the SPL)

Apparently it was dreadful financial management that caused us to go £17m into debt. Luckily for the board though, five young footballers appeared from nowhere to save the day. Phew!

Anyway Beefster, this is a side issue. I agree with your stance on the current managerial situation.

[basehibby]

If we address the problem in a purely business sense our logical action would be:

Appoint a football director who will not be bullied by Petrie.

Put Petrie out to graze – he has done his job and done it very well, that job being to give Hibs a long term platform on which to develop. We do not need someone with his skills now. We have directors who are capable of looking after the purse strings on an ongoing basis. I would not object to a small statue of Petrie at the ground (next to a bigger one of Sir Tom). Thank you, thank you to both of you. We need someone who will drive the club to its next stage.

Our prospective customer base is in Edinburgh and maybe 20 miles around it. There are enough Hibs fans plus potential Hibs fans to fill our stadium if they could be attracted to it.

Our key competitor has been run into the ground and perhaps will never recover. This is a massive opportunity for us. Edinburgh is full of people not born in Edinburgh but living here permanently. They have not been brought up to support either team. If they could associate with a team they could fill a stadium.

Hearts, with some justification claim to be the big team. All they are is a local team with a romantic name that means nothing to people outside or inside Edinburgh unless they are born Hearts supporters.

Edinburgh needs and can support only one team. An Edinburgh team with superb infrastructure could expect to be a contender for a British League as a respectable option to the old firm. Edinburgh is the Capital of Scotland. It would attract that latent fan base and visitors to Edinburgh would at least be able to identify the Edinburgh team. Edinburgh is a fabulous brand.

This would need a change of team name to Edinburgh Hibs. If we are to have a viable future it lies in being the establishment team in Edinburgh, the big team. We have to look to the future and not cling to the past.


But we ARE the Embra Hibees! No change of name necessary - shurely :confused:

[sahib]

Message to you Rod
Stop your messing around, Better think of your future.Time you straighten right out, Creating problems in town. Roddy, a message to you Roddy.

I have just got the meaning of the thread title.

[Cropley10]

Whilst I very much agree that it looks highly unlikely, who would have seriously thought that at the end of BW's tenure we would sell £12M of talent in the next few years? Riordan looked excellent and was scoring well (but we didn't actually make much money from his transfer in any case), but who else looked likely to hit the heights?

Kevin Thomson looked pretty good but had a serious knee injury at that time, Scott Brown looked good, but no one could imagine that we'd get £5.5M for him. Garry O'Connor had been written off by many. Fletcher emerged from the youth team, and then followed David Murphy on a free and Ivan Sproule cost £5K.

Four youngsters and a couple of bits of good transfer business made us £12M - when you read it like that, it doesn't sound impossible that it should happen again, despite how unlikely it would seem now.

Sorry what I mean is we don't have the problem for the Board to address whereby we have good players to sell and we need to get good money for them. No one is saying they didn't, or won't in future, execute well on this, rather what I'm saying is the current challenges are very different ones for the Board to deal with (and that these are potentially harder, as they're less straightforward).

[basehibby]

Yip, :agree: and some people think it would only be a minority who would turn on Calderwood after his first defeat if he stayed.

:agree: THAT'S ME! :aok: :na na:

Forgive my outrageous faith in human nature and my fellow Hibs fans in particular.

I know that we have our own element of reactionary loudmouths who will be only too keen to stick the boot in, but in my opinion, the MAJORITY of Hibbies will base their reaction upon our first defeat of the season when it comes on what went before it. ie. level of performance, run of form, standard of opposition etc.

Our first competitive match is at home to Celtic - if for example we got horsed 3-0 on the back of a lame duck performance then YES - Calderwood WOULD get slaughtered. If on the other hand we were to see a narrow 1-0 defeat having hit the woodwork and been denied numerous penalty shouts by the usual OF-dazzled rerereeing then I happen to believe that the fans would give credit where it's due and applaud the team off the park INCLUDING Calderwood.

[bawheid]

Message to you Rod
Stop your messing around, Better think of your future.Time you straighten right out, Creating problems in town. Roddy, a message to you Roddy.

I have just got the meaning of the thread title.

You're in a right sing-song mood this afternoon sahib. Must be Friday! :greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

Yip i agree with a lot of that, and when you consider how we have reduced the debt and built new training facilities and a new stand, its close to miraculous.:top marks

I think cup wins and 4th place finishes are what we should aspire to every season, and when we actually do it, should appreciate it, its not like we do achieve them very often.:confused:

What i find worrying though, is the eye bleeding football. And the dramatic reduction of quality in such a short space of time (2007). I know there are reasons why, but there are no good reasons why we finished 10th last season.

Our club just on spending power should never finish 10th. Completely the managers fault, previous and current.

Totally agree with this. One of the problems with the split is that its too easy to now consider finishing top 6 as a success. It's not. Someone mentioned earlier that 3 consecutive top 6 finishes wasn't too bad. I just find that depressing.

We constantly moan about the board not showing ambition but at the same time appear to be content with mediocrity. 6th place should be deemed unacceptable. Bottom 6 should mean the sack.

I don't think it's being unrealistic to be challenging for top 4 every season with a semi final in one of the cups. From memory this is what Scott Lindsay said were the clubs ambitions, or there abouts.

My only concern is the way the board are trying to achieve this. I want them to go for a manager with a proven track record, a winner, someone to install some belief in the club. If they do that we won't go far wrong.

I don't know why, but i think they will get it right this time.

[Speedway]

And again, everyone bleats but no-one takes up High Fiveland's offer to meet with him, in his office before or after a home match and discuss the issues and make the case which is superior to the current set up.

Why is that then?

[HibsMax]

Yip i agree with a lot of that, and when you consider how we have reduced the debt and built new training facilities and a new stand, its close to miraculous.:top marks

I think cup wins and 4th place finishes are what we should aspire to every season, and when we actually do it, should appreciate it, its not like we do achieve them very often.:confused:

What i find worrying though, is the eye bleeding football. And the dramatic reduction of quality in such a short space of time (2007). I know there are reasons why, but there are no good reasons why we finished 10th last season.

Our club just on spending power should never finish 10th. Completely the managers fault, previous and current.

Completely? So NO blame goes to the players? Hmmmm.

[HibsMax]

Totally agree with this. One of the problems with the split is that its too easy to now consider finishing top 6 as a success. It's not. Someone mentioned earlier that 3 consecutive top 6 finishes wasn't too bad. I just find that depressing.

We constantly moan about the board not showing ambition but at the same time appear to be content with mediocrity. 6th place should be deemed unacceptable. Bottom 6 should mean the sack.

I don't think it's being unrealistic to be challenging for top 4 every season with a semi final in one of the cups. From memory this is what Scott Lindsay said were the clubs ambitions, or there abouts.

My only concern is the way the board are trying to achieve this. I want them to go for a manager with a proven track record, a winner, someone to install some belief in the club. If they do that we won't go far wrong.

I don't know why, but i think they will get it right this time.

Bottom 6 = the sack? That seems a little harsh and if we adopted that approach we could realistically be firing manager every year if it takes us more than 1/2 season to recover from last season. I don't think it can be that black and white. I agree that we should be aiming high but being fired for a missed objective seems heavy-handed to me. A pattern of continued failure seems fairer to me. Don't fire someone when they make their first mistake.

"a manager with a proven track record, a winner, someone to install some belief in the club" -- it's tough for a team like Hibs to attract someone like that AND hold onto them. The problem we face is that if a manager is good he will attract unwanted attention and maybe leave us (it's happened twice and is happening again now). Or we get a manager who is crap and gets fired. The long-term solution is a mediocre manager who isn't garbage but not great enough to be poached. I would LOVE to have a great manager at Hibs who wanted to stay at Hibs but that chances of that happening are more remote than the other possibilities IMO.

[Beefster]

And again, everyone bleats but no-one takes up High Fiveland's offer to meet with him, in his office before or after a home match and discuss the issues and make the case which is superior to the current set up.

Why is that then?

Unless you are Five Hymen or his assistant, how do you know that?

[Baker9]

But we ARE the Embra Hibees! No change of name necessary - shurely :confused:

Yes we are the Embra Hibees. The people I am talking about attracting to the stadium do not call us the Embra Hibees. If they know about us at all they will know us as Hibs or Hibernian and will associate us with Leith and perhaps Irish roots.

We need to widen the appeal of the club to new people. Becoming the establishment team of Edinburgh (the big team with all the big team trimmings) would go a long way to doing that for us. It might eventually mean prawn sandwiches in executive boxes but I would prefer that to gradual decline.

We need to think longer term as a club.

[Stevie Reid]

Totally agree with this. One of the problems with the split is that its too easy to now consider finishing top 6 as a success. It's not. Someone mentioned earlier that 3 consecutive top 6 finishes wasn't too bad. I just find that depressing.

We constantly moan about the board not showing ambition but at the same time appear to be content with mediocrity. 6th place should be deemed unacceptable. Bottom 6 should mean the sack.

I don't think it's being unrealistic to be challenging for top 4 every season with a semi final in one of the cups. From memory this is what Scott Lindsay said were the clubs ambitions, or there abouts.

My only concern is the way the board are trying to achieve this. I want them to go for a manager with a proven track record, a winner, someone to install some belief in the club. If they do that we won't go far wrong.

I don't know why, but i think they will get it right this time.

You're agreeing with a post that was agreeing with my annoyance at playing down our achievements, before going on to say that my point about finishing 6th being not too bad (in context) is depressing to you.

And here we go again with the 'accepting mediocrity' nonsense :brickwall

In the context of my overall point, I said that three 6th place finishes in a row wasn't too bad given that they were sandwiched between two 4th place finshes, and that we won a trophy in the same season as one of those 6th place finishes. In 2007 we won one of the 3 trophies available to us at the start of the season (only two of which are a realistic possibility), whilst finishing in the top half of the league - that's not mediocre, that's exceptional. Rangers won nothing that season. Do I like it when Hibs finish 6th? Not really. Can I accept it when we have recently won a trophy? Absolutely. I don't think it's unrealistic to be challenging for a top 4 place every year either, in fact I don't know anyone who does - and is it not depressing that you state that you'd be happy getting to the semi of a cup, as opposed to actually winning one again?

With regards to finishing top 6 being a success, no one is claiming that just being there is worthy of celebration, but in the context of an argument where people are making out as if we have been struggling year on year, 6 seasons in a row of finishing in the top 50% of the SPL states otherwise - especially when 4th (twice) and 3rd have been reached, alongside the trophy being won. Incidentally, given the way our last 2 managers have ended up, even finishing top 6 is unacceptable, never mind bottom 6.

With regards to your last paragraph, who wouldn't want a manager like that? Out of interest, who did you have in mind? I'm optimistic that we'll come out of this situation stronger for some reason too, but I don't think that we'll appoint a manager of the calibre that you're looking for.

[WhileTheChief..]

StveieR

I wasn't havng a pop at your points at all, agree with everything you said!

It was just the top 6 thing which annoys me. Managers and fans up and down the country seem to use this as a benchmark now when I think ours should be slightly higher, thats all i was meaning.

Of course I'd rather we won the cup instead of reachig a semi final, i figured that would go without saying.

I'd love us to try for Strachan. Might be completely pie in the sky but he ticks all the boxes as far as I'm concerned. :thumbsup:

[Stevie Reid]

StveieR

I wasn't havng a pop at your points at all, agree with everything you said!

It was just the top 6 thing which annoys me. Managers and fans up and down the country seem to use this as a benchmark now when I think ours should be slightly higher, thats all i was meaning.

Of course I'd rather we won the cup instead of reachig a semi final, i figured that would go without saying.

I'd love us to try for Strachan. Might be completely pie in the sky but he ticks all the boxes as far as I'm concerned. :thumbsup:

Fair enough WTC, I was only saying that the top 6 finishes weren't bad in context :aok:

I think Strachan is a realistic target in that he is not working - I reckon that he would be about as far as our ambitions would stretch on that front. I would also be delighted, though people would (and have) question his record elsewhere.

[Kaiser1962]

And we go through Managers more than Romanov does at the Yams.


No we dont.

[Kaiser1962]

I'm in complete agreement! But that was then and this is now. I never said don't sell them and never said they weren't sold for good money.

The job they did well then is not something they're going to be able to repeat any time soon, so it's time to show they can still do a good job in different circumstances.


Thats fair enough.

Thats twice I've agreed with you in as many days. :confused: I'm going to lie down for a while now. :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Has anyone actually said that it's down to crappy management by the board that we don't have good players coming through?

You're not comparing apples with apples.

I have been pleasantly surprised by the improvement shown. I was impressed at Livi the other night with Crawford, Taggart and Horner. Antell didnt get on but he and Welsh have been good when I have seen them and the will join Hanlon, Spoony and Booth in the first team squad this season.

That isnae bad.

[Cropley10]

Thats fair enough.

Thats twice I've agreed with you in as many days. :confused: I'm going to lie down for a while now. :greengrin

:aok::greengrin

[smurf]

No we dont.

Bold statement as in recent years we actually have.

[Kaiser1962]

Bold statement as in recent years we actually have.

You said Romanov. You didn't say you were being selective about a particular period of Romanov's reign.

Since Romanov took over Hibs have had 5 managers Hearts have had 8.

[Removed]

And again, everyone bleats but no-one takes up High Fiveland's offer to meet with him, in his office before or after a home match and discuss the issues and make the case which is superior to the current set up.

Why is that then?

Where and when did he make that offer Speedway?