NOTW - Phone Hacking Cases

[johnbc70]

Could this be the end for Murdoch.....the end of the News of the World?

Major advertisers now refusing to advertise in the paper due to the revelations about the Milly Dowler case and now looks like they phone tapped the parents of the Soham girls Jessica and Holly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14035270

[Woody1985]

Not read the link but if true that's low even for them.

[Beefster]

I didn't particularly care when it was only celebrities and MPs, who couldn't be arsed to change their voicemail PIN number from the default.

Listening to the voicemail, and deleting messages, of a missing kid is beyond the pale though. If it turns out that they also did it to either the Soham kids or their parents, you can guarantee it that this is the thin end of the wedge and more will come out. It won't just be the NOTW that's been up to this either - you can guarantee that all of the tabloids and possibly some of the broadsheets have been at it too.

Rebekah Brooks/Wade will more than likely have to resign and rightly so, although I wouldn't be surprised to see her moved to a News Corp. job in another country.

[heretoday]

I didn't particularly care when it was only celebrities and MPs, who couldn't be arsed to change their voicemail PIN number from the default.

Listening to the voicemail, and deleting messages, of a missing kid is beyond the pale though. If it turns out that they also did it to either the Soham kids or their parents, you can guarantee it that this is the thin end of the wedge and more will come out. It won't just be the NOTW that's been up to this either - you can guarantee that all of the tabloids and possibly some of the broadsheets have been at it too.

Rebekah Brooks/Wade will more than likely have to resign and rightly so, although I wouldn't be surprised to see her moved to a News Corp. job in another country.


You didn't care if MPs and celebrities' phones were hacked?

Surely you can't mean that in all seriousness.

[magpie1892]

I didn't particularly care when it was only celebrities and MPs, who couldn't be arsed to change their voicemail PIN number from the default.

Listening to the voicemail, and deleting messages, of a missing kid is beyond the pale though. If it turns out that they also did it to either the Soham kids or their parents, you can guarantee it that this is the thin end of the wedge and more will come out. It won't just be the NOTW that's been up to this either - you can guarantee that all of the tabloids and possibly some of the broadsheets have been at it too.

Rebekah Brooks/Wade will more than likely have to resign and rightly so, although I wouldn't be surprised to see her moved to a News Corp. job in another country.

I agree. The celebs/MPs phone hacking was utterly unimportant to most people bar the 'victim' and it was funny watching, for example, that paragon of rectitude John Prescott trying to elicit sympathy with his faux outrage. I always thought that banging your secretary on company property and on company time was instant dismissal territory? Guess not.

Brooks will likely end up at News Corp's US concerns.

[Beefster]

You didn't care if MPs and celebrities' phones were hacked?

Surely you can't mean that in all seriousness.

That's right - apologies if that offends your sensibilities. These people should be savvy enough to know that they are a target for the gutter press and that they need to change their default voicemail PIN number.

PS Technically, 'hacked' isn't correct. It's the technological equivalent of rooting through their bins.

[heretoday]

That's right - apologies if that offends your sensibilities. These people should be savvy enough to know that they are a target for the gutter press and that they need to change their default voicemail PIN number.

PS Technically, 'hacked' isn't correct. It's the technological equivalent of rooting through their bins.

Oh is it? I thought it was a criminal act done in the name of profit!

Where do you draw the line though? Is it ok to hack the phones of judges? Senior policemen? Royal family? Alex Salmond? They are all in the public eye.

And what of the families of these people? Are they fair game by association?

You seem to discriminate between them - celebs and public personalities - and us - ordinary folk like the unfortunate Dowlers. The truth is that we are all under threat from the psychos of the press.

[Beefster]

Oh is it? I thought it was a criminal act done in the name of profit!

Where do you draw the line though? Is it ok to hack the phones of judges? Senior policemen? Royal family? Alex Salmond? They are all in the public eye.

And what of the families of these people? Are they fair game by association?

You seem to discriminate between them - celebs and public personalities - and us - ordinary folk like the unfortunate Dowlers. The truth is that we are all under threat from the psychos of the press.

I didn't say it was right so most of your post isn't really relevant to me. I said I didn't care about it when it was restricted to celebrities and politicians.

[Betty Boop]

The families of 7/7 victims were also targeted, and new revelations that emails from Andy Coulson authorising payments to the police for information. Surely Murdoch's bid for BSkyb, must be questioned ? Is he a fit and proper person ? I don't think so. Rebekah Brooks is also a close friend of the Camerons, a political hot potato for him also.

[Beefster]

The families of 7/7 victims were also targeted, and new revelations that emails from Andy Coulson authorising payments to the police for information. Surely Murdoch's bid for BSkyb, must be questioned ? Is he a fit and proper person ? I don't think so. Rebekah Brooks is also a close friend of the Camerons, a political hot potato for him also.

Rebekah Brooks admitted that they made payments to police officers in a select committee hearing a fair number of years ago. Needless to say, no politician thought to do anything at the time (probably as a result of them all scrabbling to keep or gain the Sun/NOTW's approval).

I know that there is going to be a concerted effort to make this political but Gordon Brown, when Prime Minister, attended her wedding and she was friends with Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and David Blunkett amongst others. Being friends with someone doesn't make you responsible for their behaviour.

The Mirror has also been accused of phone 'hacking'. As I said earlier, this will have been widespread throughout the industry. There are going to be a lot of squeaky bums in journalistic circles.

[heretoday]

What amazes me is that the commentators, politicians etc are claiming to be so shocked at these revelations. They know it goes on to be sure. I was disgusted right enough but not surprised.

I worked for a tabloid back in the 70s and the buzz then was about "cheque book journalism" and how awful that was thought to be. Phone hacking is an inevitable follow-on from that sort of behaviour.

Newspapers used to employ heavies to guard the subjects of stories who had been "bought". Sometimes the newsroom resembled a meeting of the Kray gang rather than of editorial staff!

It's a dirty business where everyone has their price and where the likes of Murdoch think in terms of costs and not values.

[ronaldo7]

[QUOTE=heretoday;2850785]Oh is it? I thought it was a criminal act done in the name of profit!

Where do you draw the line though? Is it ok to hack the phones of judges? Senior policemen? Royal family? Alex Salmond? They are all in the public eye.

And what of the families of these people? Are they fair game by association?

You seem to discriminate between them - celebs and public personalities - and us - ordinary folk like the unfortunate Dowlers. The truth is that we are all under threat from the psychos of the press.[/QUOTE

It seems the police only accept the large broon envelopes. It seems that hacking has a price in the Met.

[1two]

Top Tip
NOTW readers, save embarrassment when walking home by hiding your notw copy inside your copy of razzle this Sunday.

[johnbc70]

Top Tip
NOTW readers, save embarrassment when walking home by hiding your notw copy inside your copy of razzle this Sunday.

Viz?

[heretoday]

For what it's worth you can voice your objections to the Wizard of Oz's media monopoly by emailing from this site: http://www.avaaz.org/en/murdoch_messages_2/97.php?cl_tta_sign=ea9dd0c5b44efada77d76a274238a8d b

I hope you can get access. I can't normally post links from here. Obviously not a fit and proper person.....

[hibsbollah]

http://touch.lockerz.com/s/117640465

Tomorrows front page.

The Guardian have been banging on about this for 2 years, but noone was listening. They were on to a winner after all.

[Betty Boop]

How are the police going to investigate the police role in this, and why have they no done so before ?

[Betty Boop]

Rebekah Brooks admitted that they made payments to police officers in a select committee hearing a fair number of years ago. Needless to say, no politician thought to do anything at the time (probably as a result of them all scrabbling to keep or gain the Sun/NOTW's approval).

I know that there is going to be a concerted effort to make this political but Gordon Brown, when Prime Minister, attended her wedding and she was friends with Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and David Blunkett amongst others. Being friends with someone doesn't make you responsible for their behaviour.

The Mirror has also been accused of phone 'hacking'. As I said earlier, this will have been widespread throughout the industry. There are going to be a lot of squeaky bums in journalistic circles.

A fact that Andy Coulson denied on oath in the Tommy Sheridan trial. Maybe he will be done for perjury ? :rolleyes:

[thekaratekid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14052909

Dead soldiers families involved now too.

Can it get any worse?

[1two]

Is the NOTW the same as the Sun? as in same journalists, same paper, different name?

[magpie1892]

Is the NOTW the same as the Sun? as in same journalists, same paper, different name?

No. Entirely different entities. In fact, little love lost between the two in my experience.

[Betty Boop]

The crown office has asked Strathclyde police to examine the evidence given in court, by Andy Coulson, Bob Bird and Douglas White, in the Tommy Sheridan trial.

[PeeJay]

News of the World apparently to close down after Sunday - final edition.

[bighairyfaeleith]

News of the World apparently to close down after Sunday - final edition.

just heard that, quite an incredible move and shows just how much murdoch wants sky

[Bishop Hibee]

News of the World apparently to close down after Sunday - final edition.

"Good riddance to bad rubbish" as my old Gran used to say. The Murdoch empire trying to distance its other media outlets from guilt by association.

Too late.

[Beefster]

Didn't see that coming at all. Had just been listening to Simon Kelner say that NOTW would carry on with few consequences (to the circulation) in a few weeks time so it obviously wasn't even expected within the industry.

[PeeJay]

Astonishing news really, tough for all the decent people whose jobs are now at risk?

Can't quite see how this readership/market will just be abandoned - Murdoch is bound to have something up his sleeve, surely?

[Beefster]

"Good riddance to bad rubbish" as my old Gran used to say. The Murdoch empire trying to distance its other media outlets from guilt by association.

Too late.

I'm no apologist for News Corp (I don't actually give two hoots about them either way) but, considering the Mirror were almost certainly hacking phones too, do you now consider the Daily Record, Sunday Mail, The People, Birmingham Mail, West Lothian Courier and dozens of other newspapers to be guilty by association? All owned by Trinity Mirror.

[magpie1892]

No. Entirely different entities. In fact, little love lost between the two in my experience.

This was accurate when I wrote it...

[lyonhibs]

News of the World apparently to close down after Sunday - final edition.

Good. Absolutely excellent. Been hating that filthy rag for years, them and their gutter press pals for sensationalist, instrusive and - frequently - outright untruthful *****e.

1 down, at least 3 to go (Mirror, Daily Mail and The Sun)

Daily Mail has nothing to do with this case I know, I just can't stand the paper and it's inevitable anti-immigration slant on near enough every news story.

[magpie1892]

Good. Absolutely excellent. Been hating that filthy rag for years, them and their gutter press pals for sensationalist, instrusive and - frequently - outright untruthful *****e.

1 down, at least 3 to go (Mirror, Daily Mail and The Sun)

Daily Mail has nothing to do with this case I know, I just can't stand the paper and it's inevitable anti-immigration slant on near enough every news story.

Don't get too excited just yet. Former colleague of mine who works at Sun Sport has been told to get ready for a 7-day operation. Murdoch won't abandon the Sunday tabloid market, too valuable. 'Sun on Sunday'.

Don't hold you breath for the demise of the other three either, though I suppose the Mirror might go if it keeps losing circulation.

[Big Ed]

I'm no apologist for News Corp (I don't actually give two hoots about them either way) but, considering the Mirror were almost certainly hacking phones too, do you now consider the Daily Record, Sunday Mail, The People, Birmingham Mail, West Lothian Courier and dozens of other newspapers to be guilty by association? All owned by Trinity Mirror.

I suspect that you are right about other newspapers being up to this sort of thing too: that might explain why none of them were shouting too loudly when damaging accusations about a rival emerged.

However the point is that News International insisted for years that the whole hacking thing was the work of a single rogue reporter, paid off Max Clifford, Gordon Taylor and others to stop them going to court, tried to suggest that they were helping the authorities with their enquiries, when in fact they were being deliberatly being obstructive.

Add that to the involvement of the Police in both taking payment from NOTW reporters and their pathetic enquiry and you have a national scandal on your hands.

It may be irritating to hear opposition MPs having a field day at the expense of the Murdoch Empire but you can hardly blame them.

Hopefully other tabloids who have behaved in this way will be fully exposed too.

[Big Ed]

Don't get too excited just yet. Former colleague of mine who works at Sun Sport has been told to get ready for a 7-day operation. Murdoch won't abandon the Sunday tabloid market, too valuable. 'Sun on Sunday'.

Don't hold you breath for the demise of the other three either, though I suppose the Mirror might go if it keeps losing circulation.

Direct quote from BBC News website:
"Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke has told the BBC that "all they're going to do is relaunch it".

There have been rumours that a Sunday edition of the Sun will launched, although News International has declined to comment on them.

The web addresses "TheSunOnSunday.co.uk" and "thesunonsunday.com" were registered two days ago, although it is not known by whom."

It looks like you are right Magpie.

[magpie1892]

Direct quote from BBC News website:
"Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke has told the BBC that "all they're going to do is relaunch it".

There have been rumours that a Sunday edition of the Sun will launched, although News International has declined to comment on them.

The web addresses "TheSunOnSunday.co.uk" and "thesunonsunday.com" were registered two days ago, although it is not known by whom."

It looks like you are right Magpie.

Oh, that info about the domains is interesting... If it was a regular Joe with great insight, then that's genius, but it's got to be News Corp, surely.

[hibsbollah]

Oh, that info about the domains is interesting... If it was a regular Joe with great insight, then that's genius, but it's got to be News Corp, surely.

Its a lot more difficult than it used to be to sit on a domain name that youve got no conceivable right to. If its been registered its almost certainly by murdochs minions.

[McSwanky]

Astonishing news really, tough for all the decent people whose jobs are now at risk?

If they are truly decent people they wouldn't be working for an organisation like that in the first place.

You wouldn't catch me working for any tabloid newspaper, and I'm not even that principled.

[magpie1892]

Its a lot more difficult than it used to be to sit on a domain name that youve got no conceivable right to. If its been registered its almost certainly by murdochs minions.

More difficult, certainly, but you'd still get a payoff, and there's no product called 'Sun on Sunday' in the UK (yet) so they do have primacy. But I agree, it's more likely to have been Murdoch!

[Dashing Bob S]

Good. Absolutely excellent. Been hating that filthy rag for years, them and their gutter press pals for sensationalist, instrusive and - frequently - outright untruthful *****e.

1 down, at least 3 to go (Mirror, Daily Mail and The Sun)

Daily Mail has nothing to do with this case I know, I just can't stand the paper and it's inevitable anti-immigration slant on near enough every news story.

Agreed. Get rid of them all. And before people moan about threats to a free society, they've long since given up any pretensions to that role, as the net has usurped them, and good thing too.

About time broadcast got of its lazy *rse and moved on from the embarrassing 'what the papers say' pish, - nobody but them gives a Donald Duck.

[Jonnyboy]

If they are truly decent people they wouldn't be working for an organisation like that in the first place.

You wouldn't catch me working for any tabloid newspaper, and I'm not even that principled.

Maybe they are the kind of decent people who want to work to provide for their families rather than have high and mighty but totally misguided principles and settle for the dole. To tar every employee with the same brush is naive in the extreme IMO

[magpie1892]

If they are truly decent people they wouldn't be working for an organisation like that in the first place.

You wouldn't catch me working for any tabloid newspaper, and I'm not even that principled.

I've worked for four tabloid newspapers, including the unholy alliance of The Sun and The News of the World and I don't think I lack decency. Principles, possibly.

The NUJ certainly had/has no problem with its members finding work anywhere in journalism, and I think the union overseeing the industry have a better understanding of the situation.

[magpie1892]

Maybe they are the kind of decent people who want to work to provide for their families rather than have high and mighty but totally misguided principles and settle for the dole. To tar every employee with the same brush is naive in the extreme IMO

That's what I was trying to say, but you've said it far better. Interested in a career in journalism?

[PeeJay]

If they are truly decent people they wouldn't be working for an organisation like that in the first place.

You wouldn't catch me working for any tabloid newspaper, and I'm not even that principled.

Still think it's tough on those people doing a job who weren't involved in any illegal activities - the fact that it's gutter press is another matter, surely?

[magpie1892]

they've long since given up any pretensions to that role, as the net has usurped them, and good thing too.

dailymail.co.uk is the most read news source on the planet, in any language.

[Jonnyboy]

That's what I was trying to say, but you've said it far better. Interested in a career in journalism?

No thanks :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fw atch%3Fv%3Dwtk3yLVUOKg%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&feature=youtu.be&v=wtk3yLVUOKg&gl=GB

I liked the bit about the biscuit.

[Betty Boop]

Andy Coulson to be arrested tomorrow.

[Jonnyboy]

Andy Coulson to be arrested tomorrow.

You could see that coming I suppose :agree:

Bit of a red kip for Call Me Dave :greengrin

[ArabHibee]

Maybe they are the kind of decent people who want to work to provide for their families rather than have high and mighty but totally misguided principles and settle for the dole. To tar every employee with the same brush is naive in the extreme IMO

:agree: That's like saying everyone that worked for the banks should have resigned.


That's what I was trying to say, but you've said it far better. Interested in a career in journalism?
:tee hee: Now there's an offer J, think you would be good at writing a few columns. :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

:agree: That's like saying everyone that worked for the banks should have resigned.


:tee hee: Now there's an offer J, think you would be good at writing a few columns. :wink:

Couldnae do it S on account of the damage it might do to my rep :faf:

[Betty Boop]

You could see that coming I suppose :agree:

Bit of a red kip for Call Me Dave :greengrin


The lengths the Murdochs are going to protect Brooks is mind boggling. I wonder what stories she could tell ? Apparently there has been a walk out by Sun staff in support of the sacked NOW workers.

[Bishop Hibee]

dailymail.co.uk is the most read news source on the planet, in any language.

Assuming this is true it explains why the aliens are keeping their distance.


The lengths the Murdochs are going to protect Brooks is mind boggling. I wonder what stories she could tell ? Apparently there has been a walk out by Sun staff in support of the sacked NOW workers.

:greengrin Victory to the workers :not worth

[hibsbollah]

dailymail.co.uk is the most read news source on the planet, in any language.

Are you sure about that? China Daily?

[givescotlandfreedom]

The lengths the Murdochs are going to protect Brooks is mind boggling. I wonder what stories she could tell ? Apparently there has been a walk out by Sun staff in support of the sacked NOW workers.

That funny, when there were strikes in my work over job security they were portayed in Murdoch's gutter press as outdated, militant trouble makers. Must hurt, ya ****bags!

[Betty Boop]

Assuming this is true it explains why the aliens are keeping their distance.



:greengrin Victory to the workers :not worth

Ho ho, Hugh Grant is on Question Time tonight, cannae wait ! :greengrin

[McSwanky]

Maybe they are the kind of decent people who want to work to provide for their families rather than have high and mighty but totally misguided principles and settle for the dole. To tar every employee with the same brush is naive in the extreme IMO

To suggest that anyone ever has a straight choice between working for a tabloid and going on the dole is naive in the extreme. IMO.

These publications are pure poison, imposing their political agenda on members of the public that believe that what they are reading is news, and not an opinion. It terrifies me that 10th million people bought that rag every week.

Bottom line, as a headmaster of mine used to say, "you fly with the crows, you get shot down with the crows."

And don't worry, I'm not going to start making wild analogies to the Nazis... yet... ;-)

[magpie1892]

Are you sure about that? China Daily?

100% positive. It was NYT by some distance before it went paywall, now it's the Mail.

[magpie1892]

To suggest that anyone ever has a straight choice between working for a tabloid and going on the dole is naive in the extreme. IMO.

And here I am... I've faced that choice, several times. I chose work.

Your 'argument', such as it is, is nonsense.

[McSwanky]

:agree: That's like saying everyone that worked for the banks should have resigned.

No it's not.

For one thing, I can bet that most bank workers had no idea what was going on before the "Credit Crunch" (god, I hate that phrase). It would appear that it was a surprise to a lot of people that should really have known better, so I doubt Mr smith working on the front desk in the Dalkeith branch of RBS probably didn't have much of an inkling.

Secondly, you can't really compare a bank and a tabloid newspaper as equally immoral. I hopefully shouldn't have to elaborate on that point, but give me a shout if you're struggling. ;-)

[Jonnyboy]

To suggest that anyone ever has a straight choice between working for a tabloid and going on the dole is naive in the extreme. IMO.

These publications are pure poison, imposing their political agenda on members of the public that believe that what they are reading is news, and not an opinion. It terrifies me that 10th million people bought that rag every week.

Bottom line, as a headmaster of mine used to say, "you fly with the crows, you get shot down with the crows."

And don't worry, I'm not going to start making wild analogies to the Nazis... yet... ;-)

So, we've established that we're both naive :wink:

Flying with the crows probably means very little to the folk who do the menial jobs at that establishment. All they do is a day's work for a day's pay.

[McSwanky]

And here I am... I've faced that choice, several times. I chose work.

Your 'argument', such as it is, is nonsense.

So there were literally no other jobs you could do? Then I stand corrected. I am surprised though.

[McSwanky]

So, we've established that we're both naive :wink:

Flying with the crows probably means very little to the folk who do the menial jobs at that establishment. All they do is a day's work for a day's pay.

I would argue that people doing menial jobs are likely to be able to do that job elsewhere. I work in IT and had the chance to apply for a good job at the Daily Record. I didn't.

[ArabHibee]

No it's not.

For one thing, I can bet that most bank workers had no idea what was going on before the "Credit Crunch" (god, I hate that phrase). It would appear that it was a surprise to a lot of people that should really have known better, so I doubt Mr smith working on the front desk in the Dalkeith branch of RBS probably didn't have much of an inkling.

Secondly, you can't really compare a bank and a tabloid newspaper as equally immoral. I hopefully shouldn't have to elaborate on that point, but give me a shout if you're struggling. ;-)

So you're saying that everyone that worked for the NOTW knew what was going on. How naive are you?

And I'm not comparing a bank and a newspaper, you are the one gloating about folk losing their jobs, through no fault of their own.

[McSwanky]

I can't get the image of Dr Evil's henchmen in Austin Powers out of my head for some reason....

[McSwanky]

So you're saying that everyone that worked for the NOTW knew what was going on. How naive are you?

And I'm not comparing a bank and a newspaper, you are the one gloating about folk losing their jobs, through no fault of their own.

No. I'm not saying that. Please don't put words into my mouth. I'm saying that they know exactly what the paper stands for, and I think we all knew that they were more than a bit naughty about how they went about getting their 'news'.

[Jonnyboy]

I would argue that people doing menial jobs are likely to be able to do that job elsewhere. I work in IT and had the chance to apply for a good job at the Daily Record. I didn't.

Then you are to be admired for sticking to your principles.

The thing is I'm not defending those hacks that prey on the vulnerable for the sake of getting a story. I'm not defending the Editors and Sub-Editors who pressure those hacks into filing copy. I'm not defending Murdoch or his lickspittles. I'm merely pointing out that a number of quite innocent people who were in a job have now lost that job through no fault of their own.

I guess you might come back at me by repeating what you said earlier in that the folk I'm referring too should have chosen not to work for such a monster. Maybe you're right but equally maybe they didn't have much of a choice?

[magpie1892]

So there were literally no other jobs you could do? Then I stand corrected. I am surprised though.

I could have worked in a bar, or McDonald's or something for 1/10th the money, but as a journalist, being offered work as a journalist and accepting it over going to sign on and wait for something on a 'worthy' paper, is not a stretch by any means.

I'm genuinely surprised at your position, it's full o' holes.

[ArabHibee]

No. I'm not saying that. Please don't put words into my mouth. I'm saying that they know exactly what the paper stands for, and I think we all knew that they were more than a bit naughty about how they went about getting their 'news'.

So they are getting what they deserve?
Nice attitude.

[McSwanky]

Then you are to be admired for sticking to your principles.

The thing is I'm not defending those hacks that prey on the vulnerable for the sake of getting a story. I'm not defending the Editors and Sub-Editors who pressure those hacks into filing copy. I'm not defending Murdoch or his lickspittles. I'm merely pointing out that a number of quite innocent people who were in a job have now lost that job through no fault of their own.

I guess you might come back at me by repeating what you said earlier in that the folk I'm referring too should have chosen not to work for such a monster. Maybe you're right but equally maybe they didn't have much of a choice?

I don't think this is going anywhere! You think they may have had no choice, I think they most likely did.

Maybe it's time to agree to disagree?

[McSwanky]

So they are getting what they deserve?
Nice attitude.

Words. Mouth. Stop.

[Jonnyboy]

I don't think this is going anywhere! You think they may have had no choice, I think they most likely did.

Maybe it's time to agree to disagree?

Yes, lets :agree:

[ArabHibee]

Words. Mouth. Stop.

I totally agree that you should.

[McSwanky]

I totally agree that you should.

Your wish is my command.

[Jonnyboy]

The lengths the Murdochs are going to protect Brooks is mind boggling. I wonder what stories she could tell ? Apparently there has been a walk out by Sun staff in support of the sacked NOW workers.

Or what documents/photographs/emails she could produce :wink:

[magpie1892]

Or what documents/photographs/emails she could produce :wink:

There's many, many reasons why she stayed and the rank and file are getting the push. I'm glad I wasn't at that newsroom meeting today as I think I would have been tempted to physically attack a woman, and that wouldn't do at all.

[Big Ed]

There's many, many reasons why she stayed and the rank and file are getting the push. I'm glad I wasn't at that newsroom meeting today as I think I would have been tempted to physically attack a woman, and that wouldn't do at all.

I'd love to know; because the lengths that, the notoriously un-sentimental, Rupert Murdoch has gone to, in order to protect her, beggar belief.

[magpie1892]

I'd love to know; because the lengths that, the notoriously un-sentimental, Rupert Murdoch has gone to, in order to protect her, beggar belief.

I'd love to know the titbits also but there's plenty of speculation on the internets. The most commonly held view, and that with which I concur, is her closeness to the Camerons and, indeed, loads of our slimy politicians and policymakers makes her more valuable to NC than desk journos - who are ten a penny, espeically in the current industry and economic markets. It's a business decision, pure and simple, and you correctly identify Murdoch's ruthlessness; it's like a chess move - sacrifice a few pawns and entrap your opponents queen - BSkyB.

The other consideration, which also holds water, is that by axing NoTW and extending The Sun to a seven-day operation (which is so obviously going to happen) he'll save a fortune, in the long run.

[Jonnyboy]

I'd love to know the titbits also but there's plenty of speculation on the internets. The most commonly held view, and that with which I concur, is her closeness to the Camerons and, indeed, loads of our slimy politicians and policymakers makes her more valuable to NC than desk journos - who are ten a penny, espeically in the current industry and economic markets. It's a business decision, pure and simple, and you correctly identify Murdoch's ruthlessness; it's like a chess move - sacrifice a few pawns and entrap your opponents queen - BSkyB.

The other consideration, which also holds water, is that by axing NoTW and extending The Sun to a seven-day operation (which is so obviously going to happen) he'll save a fortune, in the long run.

Yip, Call Me Dave in bed with Brooks and Coulson (metaphorically of course :wink:) in recent times. Maybe Coulson will be the sacrificial lamb in order to protect Brooks

[magpie1892]

Yip, Call Me Dave in bed with Brooks and Coulson (metaphorically of course :wink:) in recent times. Maybe Coulson will be the sacrificial lamb in order to protect Brooks

I can't believe Cameron hired Coulson. Absolute schoolboy error and he was warned by loads of people from all points on the political spectrum not to do it. Coulson's going to jail but I doubt he'll take the drop without opening a few cans of worms.

The whole issue demonstrates the totally (totalitarian?) parasitic nature of the political and (some) media spheres relationship with the public at large. You see, there were/are a number of people who didn't actually think there was anything wrong with interfering with the voicemail of a murdered child. I've done some pretty underhand things to get a story but I'd never do something as vile as that.

I do think some good might come of this whole thing, as people seem to be coming to terms with just how nauseating the political class really is - and sizeable sections of the media also. And I say that as an 'insider'.

[heretoday]

Still think it's tough on those people doing a job who weren't involved in any illegal activities - the fact that it's gutter press is another matter, surely?


Tough s***.

No doubt the Richardsons had a wee office somewhere which had to close when the Brothers Grimm got sent up the Swanny.

I think it's a great result for the people.....The Sunday People. :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Can't quite see how this readership/market will just be abandoned - Murdoch is bound to have something up his sleeve, surely?

Indeed. The following Sunday a completely new title will be launched, "World of The News"/"The Sun On Sunday"/"Some Other *****".

[Big Ed]

I can't believe Cameron hired Coulson. Absolute schoolboy error and he was warned by loads of people from all points on the political spectrum not to do it. Coulson's going to jail but I doubt he'll take the drop without opening a few cans of worms.

The whole issue demonstrates the totally (totalitarian?) parasitic nature of the political and (some) media spheres relationship with the public at large. You see, there were/are a number of people who didn't actually think there was anything wrong with interfering with the voicemail of a murdered child. I've done some pretty underhand things to get a story but I'd never do something as vile as that.

I do think some good might come of this whole thing, as people seem to be coming to terms with just how nauseating the political class really is - and sizeable sections of the media also. And I say that as an 'insider'.

Magpie: Have you read Nick Davies' brilliant Flat Earth News about journalistic practice?

If not, I urge you to get a copy asap. I have recently finished re-reading it and it is as relevent now as it was when it went to print.

Davies is the Guardian/Observer journalist who followed the story from the start. The book barely covers the tabloids however: it would need volumes to cover their level of malpractice.

Instead, it discusses how "quality" newspapers have had to cut the standard of their reporting due to lack of budget/resources etc.

From memory, the book was published about 2007, but it refers to the Goodman/Mulclaire prosecution and narrates the roots of the story even then.

Your reference to the political classes and their relationship with the media squares nicely with his conclusions.

[magpie1892]

Magpie: Have you read Nick Davies' brilliant Flat Earth News about journalistic practice?

If not, I urge you to get a copy asap. I have recently finished re-reading it and it is as relevent now as it was when it went to print.

Davies is the Guardian/Observer journalist who followed the story from the start. The book barely covers the tabloids however: it would need volumes to cover their level of malpractice.

Instead, it discusses how "quality" newspapers have had to cut the standard of their reporting due to lack of budget/resources etc.

From memory, the book was published about 2007, but it refers to the Goodman/Mulclaire prosecution and narrates the roots of the story even then.

Your reference to the political classes and their relationship with the media squares nicely with his conclusions.

I've had this book mentioned to me before, but I've never picked it up. This is going to sound terrible but I spend all day reading and writing and I don't read as many books as I should.

But thanks for the tip; there are several copies on ebay and I'm now bidding on one.

[Beefster]

So there were literally no other jobs you could do? Then I stand corrected. I am surprised though.

If you're a newspaper journalist and have spent your life training for and doing the job then, yes, I'd imagine that there are a finite number of jobs. Especially if you don't want to work at some backwater like the East Lothian Courier or change career.

I think the analogy with the banks is pretty good. There is no doubt that the fallout from the bank's bad behaviour caused more suffering than a tabloid newspaper ever could either.


I would argue that people doing menial jobs are likely to be able to do that job elsewhere. I work in IT and had the chance to apply for a good job at the Daily Record. I didn't.

Which sort of proves my point. An IT worker has far more options employer-wise than a journalist does. Just about every company of any size needs IT staff. Not so for journalists.

[Betty Boop]

There's many, many reasons why she stayed and the rank and file are getting the push. I'm glad I wasn't at that newsroom meeting today as I think I would have been tempted to physically attack a woman, and that wouldn't do at all.


What are they then ?

[hibsbollah]

What are they then ?

Because thats what always happens. Managerial responsibility is a myth, its the rank and file who usually suffer from management failures.

[Removed]

Because thats what always happens. Managerial responsibility is a myth, its the rank and file who usually suffer from management failures.

:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

:grr:

[Betty Boop]

Because thats what always happens. Managerial responsibility is a myth, its the rank and file who usually suffer from management failures.

Thats only one reason ! :greengrin Coulson has now been arrested.

[Betty Boop]

Clive Goodwin former royal editor, has now been arrested, in connection with enquiries re making payments to the police for information.

[magpie1892]

What are they then ?

There's half a dozen in this thread, hb added another, there's been two more arrests and there are other suggestions online.

[McSwanky]

If you're a newspaper journalist and have spent your life training for and doing the job then, yes, I'd imagine that there are a finite number of jobs. Especially if you don't want to work at some backwater like the East Lothian Courier or change career.

I think the analogy with the banks is pretty good. There is no doubt that the fallout from the bank's bad behaviour caused more suffering than a tabloid newspaper ever could either.

As I said in the post you quoted: I stand corrected.


Which sort of proves my point. An IT worker has far more options employer-wise than a journalist does. Just about every company of any size needs IT staff. Not so for journalists.

Correct. So any IT worker that chooses to work at the NOTW, or any of Murdoch's businesses for that matter, probably knows exactly what they're getting themselves into. Which was really my point.

I seem to be repeating myself again. (I seem to be repeating myself again.) Time to bow out of this conversation for a second time! :wink:

[Big Ed]

If you can't tie all the parts of this story together, spend ten minutes listening to the guy who has spent the last four years trying to get to the bottom of this national disgrace:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2011/jul/07/news-of-the-world-phone-hacking-nick-davies-rupert-murdoch-video
:not worth:not worth:not worth

[GORDONSMITH7]

I'm no apologist for News Corp (I don't actually give two hoots about them either way) but, considering the Mirror were almost certainly hacking phones too, do you now consider the Daily Record, Sunday Mail, The People, Birmingham Mail, West Lothian Courier and dozens of other newspapers to be guilty by association? All owned by Trinity Mirror.

Jings from your previous posts on this subject you do seem a tad like an apologist. Unabashed right winger SiMar will probably put you right......where the heckers is he?

BIG G

[GORDONSMITH7]

Jings from your previous posts on this subject you do seem a tad like an apologist. Unabashed right winger SiMar will probably put you right......where the heckers is he?

BIG G

By the way totally agree with John that the workers there have been treated like disposable nappies. Not a great shock as Murdoch has arbitarily put 6000 workers on the stones as part of his empire building.

A huge thank you has to go out to Tom Watson Labour MP for West Bromwich East who has almost single handedly raised the question of illegal hacking time after time in Parliament with very little support from anyone.

BIG G

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone else see the irony of the BBC broadcasting a tape "obtained secretly" of Rebekah Wade's address to the NOW staff this afternoon?

[hibsbollah]

By the way totally agree with John that the workers there have been treated like disposable nappies. Not a great shock as Murdoch has arbitarily put 6000 workers on the stones as part of his empire building.

A huge thank you has to go out to Tom Watson Labour MP for West Bromwich East who has almost single handedly raised the question of illegal hacking time after time in Parliament with very little support from anyone.

BIG G

Yep, Watson is an excellent shout for parliamentarian of the year.

Loved Steve Coogan tonight as well;(although magpie may well not approve)...

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fw atch%3Fv%3DSkeSJLgzG8k&v=SkeSJLgzG8k&gl=GB

[cad]

Online newspapers ,BSB sky ,internet ,Rupert's never slow of the mark .
Is this the beginning of the end your daily paper just log on your i pad and voila there ye go .
Becky's dropped a bollock there police money ,Sheridan may even get cash out of this.
The depths to which this paper has gone to get the story is despicable ,
Soham murders ,Maddie , Hillsborough ,British soldiers , Royal aides , etc .

what of the 2.8 million readers every weekend that read it 85 million profit
NOTW made last year ,theyre not printing it to lie on the shelves its meeting a demand of the curious the nosey ,the I wonder what the celebs get up to ,
a knickers down sort of look at everything its the nature of the beast Im afraid ,
the thing is after its last sale and public apology ,the faithful readers will just go to the next most salacious paper printed ,that is till Rup hits you with the new.even better .
News Of The World ONLINE in a few months or so

[Geo_1875]

The Sun 7 days a week. WTF is the world coming to?

[Beefster]

Jings from your previous posts on this subject you do seem a tad like an apologist. Unabashed right winger SiMar will probably put you right......where the heckers is he?

BIG G

You must have missed the posts where I said that what has been done is beyond the pale. I think that the way News International have dealt with the scandal, since the very beginning, has been pathetic. There have been cover-ups, folks thrown to the wolves and arse-protecting of the finest order going on.

I'm just a absolute hater of hypocrisy and I like to pull it up whenever I see it (and welcome folk pointing out when I'm being a hypocrite). You do see the hypocrisy in demanding one company is put in chains and flogged whilst ignoring other companies doing the same thing - right?

Even your hero Tom Watson acknowledges that they were all at it.

By the way, your constant, although highly original and witty, digs about 'right-wing', 'Tory boy' etc etc tend to diminish any genuine point you make. You may be a Socialist Worker selling, union subservient, socialist dinosaur who can't accept that things have moved on from the 1970's and 80's (or you may not) but I think my arguments might be lost in the wash if I reminded you about it in every post I made.

Feel free to read my posts on stuff like racism, homophobia, Europe, immigration and more (if they are still on here) and you might even conclude that whilst I may be 'right of centre' on certain things, I'm not on others. It's called having a mind of my own rather than following an ideology that someone else has defined. If you don't want to engage without the witty digs - fine, I'll live. If you do, great, we might have some decent verbal tear-ups.

[magpie1892]

Yep, Watson is an excellent shout for parliamentarian of the year.

Loved Steve Coogan tonight as well;(although magpie may well not approve)...

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fw atch%3Fv%3DSkeSJLgzG8k&v=SkeSJLgzG8k&gl=GB

I'm not getting anywhere with that link, hb?

Pls clarify as I want to well not approve.

[grunt]

I'm not getting anywhere with that link, hb?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV9Sh_R3wB4

[Twa Cairpets]

dailymail.co.uk is the most read news source on the planet, in any language.

Not according to this site (http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/news-websites)it isn't.

This one (http://news.nettop20.com/)doesnt quote statistics, but the Mail doesnt feature here either.

[hibsbollah]

I'm not getting anywhere with that link, hb?

Pls clarify as I want to well not approve.

It seems to be working. Basically steve coogan on newsnight getting torn into NOTWs features editor, they have had a bit of 'history'.

[Beefster]

Not according to this site (http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/news-websites)it isn't.

This one (http://news.nettop20.com/)doesnt quote statistics, but the Mail doesnt feature here either.

You're right. Alexa gives detailed stats.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/dailymail.co.uk

[ArabHibee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV9Sh_R3wB4
Interesting. I like Steve Coogan but don't think he came over very well on that. Think someone said he has history with the features editor. Wasn't sure what what his point was about Coogan having other dealings with Murdoch. Anyone know?

[Betty Boop]

Interesting. I like Steve Coogan but don't think he came over very well on that. Think someone said he has history with the features editor. Wasn't sure what what his point was about Coogan having other dealings with Murdoch. Anyone know?


Was it not the fact that he is quite happy to make movies for Fox ?

[hibsbollah]

Interesting. I like Steve Coogan but don't think he came over very well on that. Think someone said he has history with the features editor. Wasn't sure what what his point was about Coogan having other dealings with Murdoch. Anyone know?

Really? I thought he was excellent, although he lost.his temper a bit. Paul McMullen is a creepy individual.

[magpie1892]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV9Sh_R3wB4

I think that's fair comment, FWIW.

[magpie1892]

Not according to this site (http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/news-websites)it isn't.

This one (http://news.nettop20.com/)doesnt quote statistics, but the Mail doesnt feature here either.

Sorry, I should have said 'newspaper', but as the post to which I was replying was talking about newspapers and how the net had ripped them one I thought that would have been clear.

Here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/apr/19/mail-online-website-popular), in the Guardian, we have dailymail.co.uk at number two in April and it's now number one.

[Twa Cairpets]

Sorry, I should have said 'newspaper', but as the post to which I was replying was talking about newspapers and how the net had ripped them one I thought that would have been clear.

Here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/apr/19/mail-online-website-popular), in the Guardian, we have dailymail.co.uk at number two in April and it's now number one.

I'm sorry, it must have been the phrase:

"dailymail.co.uk is the most read news source on the planet, in any language." that threw me.

Regardless, it is hugely worrying that people choose this rag/cyber rag as their primary source of information. It is every bit as appaling in print as it is online, although I do try not to read it to much as it softens the brain.

The Mail to me is actually worse than NOTW. It sets itself up to be considered a serious newspaper, but has such a horrible agenda that it is a soapbox for the justification of little-England prejudice, ignorance and paranoia.

Mailwatch (http://www.mailwatch.co.uk/) is quite an interesting website for anyone wanting to get an overview of the keech it puts out.

[heretoday]

It would appear that Ed Miliband just has to sit tight and the world will fall into his lap.

And I reckon he is a decent boy.

[Beefster]

It would appear that Ed Miliband just has to sit tight and the world will fall into his lap.

And I reckon he is a decent boy.

This is the Ed Miliband that was at a Murdoch party three weeks ago, during a police investigation into Murdoch's company, and had agreed to fly across the globe to address Murdoch's executives, again during a police investigation into one of their companies? That Ed Miliband, yeah?

They are all thick as thieves and bad as each other. Any 'outrage' on Ed Miliband's part is pure political posturing.

[magpie1892]

It would appear that Ed Miliband just has to sit tight and the world will fall into his lap.

And I reckon he is a decent boy.

I've got significantly more chance of being PM than Miliband (E) does.

[magpie1892]

Mailwatch (http://www.mailwatch.co.uk/) is quite an interesting website for anyone wanting to get an overview of the keech it puts out.

Given the size of the target, Mailwatch is absolute drivel. You'll see Tim Ireland credited as one of the editors - that tells you all you need to know about the standard of what lies within.

[goosano]

If you can't tie all the parts of this story together, spend ten minutes listening to the guy who has spent the last four years trying to get to the bottom of this national disgrace:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2011/jul/07/news-of-the-world-phone-hacking-nick-davies-rupert-murdoch-video
:not worth:not worth:not worth

Thanks Ed, for that-the most insightful piece I've seen about the whole affair

[Twa Cairpets]

Given the size of the target, Mailwatch is absolute drivel. You'll see Tim Ireland credited as one of the editors - that tells you all you need to know about the standard of what lies within.

I dont know much about Tim Ireland, but if it is a drivel comparison contest, I'm fairly comfortable which about which site wins.

[magpie1892]

I dont know much about Tim Ireland, but if it is a drivel comparison contest, I'm fairly comfortable which about which site wins.

Yeah, me too.

[hibiedude]

For those who say good riddance to the NOTW only need to read the last edition to see how it has changed people lives for the BETTER.

Paedophiles, drug dealers, Murderers, political scandals all highlighted by this news paper, in my opinion there isn’t a news paper around that exposed more.

Phone hacking the victims is a disgrace and the guilty should be jailed but rubbishing the paper when so many wrong doers are rightly in Jail is just plain daft.

[lapsedhibee]

If you can't tie all the parts of this story together, spend ten minutes listening to the guy who has spent the last four years trying to get to the bottom of this national disgrace:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2011/jul/07/news-of-the-world-phone-hacking-nick-davies-rupert-murdoch-video
:not worth:not worth:not worth

:agree: Yep, very good piece.

[Big Ed]

For those who say good riddance to the NOTW only need to read the last edition to see how it has changed people lives for the BETTER.

Paedophiles, drug dealers, Murderers, political scandals all highlighted by this news paper, in my opinion there isn’t a news paper around that exposed more.

Phone hacking the victims is a disgrace and the guilty should be jailed but rubbishing the paper when so many wrong doers are rightly in Jail is just plain daft.

The last 24 hours, with the aid of their final front page, appears to have people reaching for their hankies at the demise of the News of the World.
“It was a good day for the bad guys. Villains, paedophiles and corrupt politicians will be able to sleep more soundly now that the greatest investigative newspaper on Earth has gone.” So said David Wooding, the paper’s political editor.
On the face of it; he may have a point, but it is selective.
Brian May, the comedy-haired Queen guitarist, was on the One Show on Friday night. He was asked about the demise of the paper in a tenuously linked piece because Queen had had an album out by the same name. He pulled a face and said he was happy to see it go, relaying about how the paper’s long lenses were trying to peep through the curtains whilst Freddie Mercury was in the final throes: that is the side of the News of the World that I’ll remember.
People bought it as much for celebrity kiss and tell and football stories as they ever did for their “stings”. That is a gap in the market that will be filled by the Sun on Sunday fairly soon.
I agree: it did some good things, but always on its own terms.
The way Wooding would have you believe it; Snow White was the Editor and Ghandi was Chief Executive.

[hibiedude]

The last 24 hours, with the aid of their final front page, appears to have people reaching for their hankies at the demise of the News of the World.
“It was a good day for the bad guys. Villains, paedophiles and corrupt politicians will be able to sleep more soundly now that the greatest investigative newspaper on Earth has gone.” So said David Wooding, the paper’s political editor.
On the face of it; he may have a point, but it is selective.
Brian May, the comedy-haired Queen guitarist, was on the One Show on Friday night. He was asked about the demise of the paper in a tenuously linked piece because Queen had had an album out by the same name. He pulled a face and said he was happy to see it go, relaying about how the paper’s long lenses were trying to peep through the curtains whilst Freddie Mercury was in the final throes: that is the side of the News of the World that I’ll remember.
People bought it as much for celebrity kiss and tell and football stories as they ever did for their “stings”. That is a gap in the market that will be filled by the Sun on Sunday fairly soon.
I agree: it did some good things, but always on its own terms.
The way Wooding would have you believe it; Snow White was the Editor and Ghandi was Chief Executive.

I never said I agreed with everything this paper did but paedophiles and murderer’s- drug dealers would still be walking the streets if it wasn’t for this paper.

It clearly is a good day for the bad guys.

[Big Ed]

I never said I agreed with everything this paper did but paedophiles and murderer’s- drug dealers would still be walking the streets if it wasn’t for this paper.

It clearly is a good day for the bad guys.

And I said that I agreed that they did do some good things.
The old line about Mussolini: “at least the trains ran on time” springs to mind: a good thing occurring whilst much greater bad things happened around it.

[RyeSloan]

Jings from your previous posts on this subject you do seem a tad like an apologist. Unabashed right winger SiMar will probably put you right......where the heckers is he?

BIG G

I'm right here. :greengrin

To be honest I have no interest in the tabloid press.

I don't even have much interest in this, tabloids have used all means possible for years and years to get the news. Am I shocked that the phone tapping was widespread, ermm no...I think it was obvious from the start that it was, just the NOTW tried to pretend it wasn't.

Still one question that does interest me is what on earth Coulson could have said to Cameron to make Cameron comfortable in appointing him....raises big questions on Camerons judgement I would say. Ooops wait a minute is an 'unabashed right winger' allowed to ask that question?

Oh and for the record, pigeonholing me as right wing is lazy and inaccurate work.

[hibsbollah]

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/sX2gkaHAF0bpW3bRWsSxM0Q/view.m?id=15&gid=media/2011/jul/11/news-of-the-world-crossword&cat=most-read

I liked this. Triumph of the small man.

[Dashing Bob S]

This is the Ed Miliband that was at a Murdoch party three weeks ago, during a police investigation into Murdoch's company, and had agreed to fly across the globe to address Murdoch's executives, again during a police investigation into one of their companies? That Ed Miliband, yeah?

They are all thick as thieves and bad as each other. Any 'outrage' on Ed Miliband's part is pure political posturing.

Nutshell. Politics in the UK is infested from top to bottom with careerist, gravy-train riding corrupt barstewards with one eye on the polls and focus groups for everything they say or do.

I can't even enjoy one set of a-holes getting their deserved comeuppance these days, as it only benefits their 'opposition' clones.

[lapsedhibee]

is an 'unabashed right winger' allowed to ask that question?

Oh and for the record, pigeonholing me as right wing is lazy and inaccurate work.

You're not denying that you're unabashed though?

[Beefster]

Good work fellas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjZOEaH720Y&feature=player_detailpage

[magpie1892]

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/sX2gkaHAF0bpW3bRWsSxM0Q/view.m?id=15&gid=media/2011/jul/11/news-of-the-world-crossword&cat=most-read

I liked this. Triumph of the small man.

I've done that. Feels good.

[Bad Martini]

He owns the ****my sun.

The sun are ***** and indeed, THE lowest of the low.

Thats all there is in it for me. I hope him and his "empire" disppears into a chasm of ****-all-ness asap. :agree:

ENDOF

[Dashing Bob S]

Murdoch will simply publish the Sun as a seven-day paper. It might take a few months, once the BskyB thing has been settled, but it'll happen.

This just assists him in cost-cutting across his empire.

[RyeSloan]

You're not denying that you're unabashed though?

Unabashed - "not ashamed, embarrassed, or ill at ease"

What's to deny? :greengrin

[--------]

I can't believe Cameron hired Coulson. Absolute schoolboy error and he was warned by loads of people from all points on the political spectrum not to do it. Coulson's going to jail but I doubt he'll take the drop without opening a few cans of worms.

The whole issue demonstrates the totally (totalitarian?) parasitic nature of the political and (some) media spheres relationship with the public at large. You see, there were/are a number of people who didn't actually think there was anything wrong with interfering with the voicemail of a murdered child. I've done some pretty underhand things to get a story but I'd never do something as vile as that.

I do think some good might come of this whole thing, as people seem to be coming to terms with just how nauseating the political class really is - and sizeable sections of the media also. And I say that as an 'insider'.


If he were actually about to 'take the drop' literally, I'd say you were right.

But since he's a buddy of the Prime Minister and a former employee of Rupert Murdoch, I'd guess he'll do what most crooks do - say nothing and do whatever time he's given - which I suspect won't be much, and will be served in a more or less open prison. He won't be sewing mailbags, that's for sure.

Then when he comes out he'll be rewarded with an obscure but no doubt lucrative appointment somewhere in the depths of a Murdoch subsidiary.

In a free society the press are supposed to act as a check on the activities of the rich and powerful to protect the common good. Our press is controlled by two or three corrupt and unscrupulous moguls and spends most of its time either cosied up with the bosses and politicos feeding crap to the masses, or randomly destroying people whose lives are already coming apart.

[Betty Boop]

Just watching John Yates Assistant Commissioner of the Met, he is under extreme pressure. Allegations that News International were hounding him, due to problems in his private life, and apparently he too socialises with senior figures in the organisation. :rolleyes:

[EskbankHibby]

Just watching John Yates Assistant Commissioner of the Met, he is under extreme pressure. Allegations that News International were hounding him, due to problems in his private life, and apparently he too socialises with senior figures in the organisation. :rolleyes:

Andy Hayman getting a pounding as well from the committee, rightly so, absolutely reeking of complicity on his part.

[Betty Boop]

Andy Hayman getting a pounding as well from the committee, rightly so, absolutely reeking of complicity on his part.

What is he all about ? He's like something out The Sweeney, dodgy doesn't begin to describe him ! :greengrin

[EskbankHibby]

What is he all about ? He's like something out The Sweeney, dodgy doesn't begin to describe him ! :greengrin

:agree:, he then gets all self righteous when asked a direct question about accepting cash, the faux-indignation was priceless.:greengrin

[magpie1892]

If he were actually about to 'take the drop' literally, I'd say you were right.

But since he's a buddy of the Prime Minister and a former employee of Rupert Murdoch, I'd guess he'll do what most crooks do - say nothing and do whatever time he's given - which I suspect won't be much, and will be served in a more or less open prison. He won't be sewing mailbags, that's for sure.

Then when he comes out he'll be rewarded with an obscure but no doubt lucrative appointment somewhere in the depths of a Murdoch subsidiary.

In a free society the press are supposed to act as a check on the activities of the rich and powerful to protect the common good. Our press is controlled by two or three corrupt and unscrupulous moguls and spends most of its time either cosied up with the bosses and politicos feeding crap to the masses, or randomly destroying people whose lives are already coming apart.

Yeah, I can see that. The levels of complicity between the media and political worlds are quite sickening; it's quite funny watching MPs getting all judgemental about the NI scandal. Not sure quite a few of them (Prescott, Huhne, Brown, etc.) are in any position to cast aspersions on the conduct of others...

[magpie1892]

Murdoch will simply publish the Sun as a seven-day paper. It might take a few months, once the BskyB thing has been settled, but it'll happen.

This just assists him in cost-cutting across his empire.

Sun on Sunday likely to appear about 90 days from now.

[Jonnyboy]

Andy Hayman getting a pounding as well from the committee, rightly so, absolutely reeking of complicity on his part.

Jeezo that guy is more slimy than a very slimy thing :greengrin

I thought he was arrogant, dismissive and downright rude - should have been a politician :wink:

[Betty Boop]

:agree:, he then gets all self righteous when asked a direct question about accepting cash, the faux-indignation was priceless.:greengrin

Hard to believe this guy was chief of anti-terrorism. His comment 'I've always wanted to be a journalist' was cringeworthy.

[Woody1985]

They've dropped their bid for BSkyB.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14142307

[GORDONSMITH7]

Not a newspaper or news channel has mentioned it yet, however the latest revelations about the high heid yins in the Met and Murdoch's corruptos suggests that it not outwith the realms of possibility that not only money was used to lubricate sordid corruption but also Freemasonry.

http://www.iranian.com/main/files/blogimages/Freemasonry.gif

By the way the big G has got **** all to do with me!

BIG G

[Betty Boop]

Not a newspaper or news channel has mentioned it yet, however the latest revelations about the high heid yins in the Met and Murdoch's corruptos suggests that it not outwith the realms of possibility that not only money was used to lubricate sordid corruption but also Freemasonry.

http://www.iranian.com/main/files/blogimages/Freemasonry.gif

By the way the big G has got **** all to do with me!

BIG G

Well Gordon, the Guardian actually ran an article on this very subject, on the 8th of June. Of course this was before most of the government and media were taking the issue seriously.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jun/08/phone-hacking-scandal-jonathan-rees

[heretoday]

Nothing much will happen to Murdoch. He'll even be able to rebid for BskyB in 6 months or whatever. All our committees and enquiries will result in reams and reams of reports, big payouts for legal advisers and noble statements of intent from our inept politicians. One or two coppers will go and a couple of hacks will be jailed. We'll all be back to square one in a year or so.

The best chance of Murdoch getting his wrinkly backside kicked lies in his adopted homeland. I heard a live debate from the US (on Russia Today!) the other night and I must say American politicos and pundits are a damn sight more incisive and wide awake than our dozy London lot who seem to find the whole scandal rather an entertainment, gosh isn't it exciting old chap.

The FBI are on the case and 9/11 talk is in the air. Fingers crossed.

[Betty Boop]

Rebekah Brooks has now resigned.

[Sylar]

The FBI are also now investigation News International, who are alleged to have hacked the phones of 9/11 survivors and victims.

Can't wait to see what will happen to his empire if his news organisations in the US are found guilty of it - I imagine it won't be quite as simple a solution as closing a few papers down.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Well Gordon, the Guardian actually ran an article on this very subject, on the 8th of June. Of course this was before most of the government and media were taking the issue seriously.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jun/08/phone-hacking-scandal-jonathan-rees

Thanks very much Betty, never seen this before. Well done the Guardian.

BIG G

[Betty Boop]

Thanks very much Betty, never seen this before. Well done the Guardian.

BIG G

:agree:

[Woody1985]

Have 9/11 hacks been alleged though?

I read a senator, I think, saying if they've done it to 7/7 etc then they've probably done it to them so let's check rather than anything else.

[Sylar]

http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/top_stories/142902/fbi-investigates-news-corp-following-9-11-phone-hack-allegations

[Beefster]

Brooks had to go. Simple as that really.

To demonstrate that you can't trust any of the shower of self-centred tosspots, the Guardian has apologised today for the incorrect story about the Sun that they and Gordon Brown were shouting from the rooftops a couple of days ago. Brown has yet to admit he was wrong.

It also turns out that Tom Watson, who has been like a dog with a bone about this (rightly), has been motivated by revenge over a falling out that he had with Rebekah Brooks regarding his resignation from the Blair government (when he was trying to force Blair out).

Politicians and journalists deserve each other.

[hibsbollah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/01/rupert_murdoch_-_a_portrait_of.html

Brilliant from the Adam Curtis blog as usual.

[magpie1892]

Brown has yet to admit he was wrong.

You've a long wait for an apology, I fear




Politicians and journalists deserve each other.

All politicians, some journalists.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Brooks had to go. Simple as that really.

To demonstrate that you can't trust any of the shower of self-centred tosspots, the Guardian has apologised today for the incorrect story about the Sun that they and Gordon Brown were shouting from the rooftops a couple of days ago. Brown has yet to admit he was wrong.

It also turns out that Tom Watson, who has been like a dog with a bone about this (rightly), has been motivated by revenge over a falling out that he had with Rebekah Brooks regarding his resignation from the Blair government (when he was trying to force Blair out).

Politicians and journalists deserve each other.


Like Murdoch, you don't get it old chap. Thankfully some do. Michael Portillo on This Week last night 4mins 10secs. in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14163958

I'm glad to see the apology to the' fans picked pockets of victims, urinated on brave cops,beat up PC giving kiss of life' Sun was given the prominence it deserved from the Guardian.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/

On Newsnight it was said that Brooks in private, as was the way in that repugnant organisation, was saying that she was going to ruin, crush Tom Watson. Well I don't know about you, however if I knew that someone was prepared and whatsmore able to do that to me I would knock **** out of them and at every opportunity thereafter.

BIG G

[Beefster]

Like Murdoch, you don't get it old chap. Thankfully some do. Michael Portillo on This Week last night 4mins 10secs. in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14163958

I'm glad to see the apology to the' fans picked pockets of victims, urinated on brave cops,beat up PC giving kiss of life' Sun was given the prominence it deserved from the Guardian.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/

On Newsnight it was said that Brooks in private, as was the way in that repugnant organisation, was saying that she was going to ruin, crush Tom Watson. Well I don't know about you, however if I knew that someone was prepared and whatsmore able to do that to me I would knock **** out of them and at every opportunity thereafter.

BIG G

You have completely missed my point.

Just to be clear, my point was that they (being journalists and politicians) are both as bad as each other and, despite their repeated pish about 'public interest' and 'reflecting the mood of the public', always have an ulterior motive for their actions - whether it is newspapers' revealing lame tittle tattle to sell papers or Brown, Cameron, Miliband, Bryant, Watson and co 'speaking out against the press' for political or vengeful reasons.

[hibsbollah]

Fox news in 'ignore the scandal' surprise...

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/07/15/surprise-surprise-fox-news-dismissed-hackgate/

[magpie1892]

Fox news in 'ignore the scandal' surprise...

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/07/15/surprise-surprise-fox-news-dismissed-hackgate/

Sunny Hundal in 'partisan bull****' surprise...

[hibsbollah]

Sunny Hundal in 'partisan bull****' surprise...

But its not bull...., is it? Hes just reporting the facts. The fox news report was embarassing.

[Twa Cairpets]

Sunny Hundal in 'partisan bull****' surprise...

Are you suggesting that Fox have not been a bit sparse in their coverage of the crisis? Interesting that when it is discussed, the person who comes on to discuss it is the head of a PR firm specialising in managing PR disasters.

The CNN link is very telling in the way it gives data. It appears the higher end NI communications channels (NY Times, Washington Post) etc have given the crisis a suitable level of coverage, but the more mass access, populist channels such as the NY Post and Fox are minimalist in their coverage.

[Beefster]

Anyone who thinks that there is any newspaper group that didn't carry out illegal activities should read page 8 and 9 of the linked doc.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/news/current_topics/~/media/documents/library/Corporate/Research_and_reports/WHAT_PRICE_PRIVACY_NOW.pdf

[Betty Boop]

Anyone who thinks that there is any newspaper group that didn't carry out illegal activities should read page 8 and 9 of the linked doc.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/news/current_topics/~/media/documents/library/Corporate/Research_and_reports/WHAT_PRICE_PRIVACY_NOW.pdf

Interesting to note that finance companies and local authorities are also carrying out illegal activities.

[Big Ed]

You have completely missed my point.

Just to be clear, my point was that they (being journalists and politicians) are both as bad as each other and, despite their repeated pish about 'public interest' and 'reflecting the mood of the public', always have an ulterior motive for their actions - whether it is newspapers' revealing lame tittle tattle to sell papers or Brown, Cameron, Miliband, Bryant, Watson and co 'speaking out against the press' for political or vengeful reasons.

I don’t disagree with the point that you have made: that politicians and the tabloid media are hypocrites and deserve each other; but I think that it is a bit simplistic.

People go on about Government interference, but in times of national outrage, we should look to them to act. When we had the banking collapse, we looked to them to ensure that we were never as vulnerable again: frankly, I don’t think we have even come close to that utopia. When we had the MPs expenses scandal: again, much hand wringing, but I still feel that the public felt that nothing had really changed.

This time, we should hope that our MPs do the right thing and give, what passes as our popular press, the mother and father of all pastings.

I, like you, despise the craven politicians, suddenly emboldened after years of silence, taking any moral high ground, but if it is for the ultimate good, then it is a small price to pay.

[Betty Boop]

Thanks very much Betty, never seen this before. Well done the Guardian.

BIG G

Hi Gordon, thought you might be interested in this article from 1997, written by Nick Davies, of all people, which exposes the role of freemasonry in law enforcement.

http://www.intmensorg.info/masonicpolice.htm

[Ed De Gramo]

Rebekah Brooks arrested....

[marinello59]

Rebekah Brooks arrested....

Is this Sir Paul Stephenson desperately trying to save his own skin now? A nest of vipers beginning to turn on each other.
And it very conveniently takes a lot of potential subject matter of the agenda when she appears in front of the Select Committee on Tuesday.

[Big Ed]

Is this Sir Paul Stephenson desperately trying to save his own skin now? A nest of vipers beginning to turn on each other.
And it very conveniently takes a lot of potential subject matter of the agenda when she appears in front of the Select Committee on Tuesday.

Sir Paul Stephenson? Is that the guy who is the highest ranking policeman in the largest police force in the country? – It ****ing is you know.

Yesterday’s Guardian reported that he had tried to put pressure on the paper to stop pressing on with the hacking enquiries, suggesting that the articles were wide of the mark. All the while, unbeknown to the Guardian; they had employed Neil Wallis, Andy Coulson’s deputy at the time the scandal first emerged, as a PR consultant.

Today, the Sunday Times reports that he accepted 20 nights free of charge at the luxury health spa Champneys earlier this year. Coincidently Wallis was also retained by Champneys to manage its public relations.

I can’t remember anything like that on Dixon of Dock Green. :taxi

[Betty Boop]

Why are these crooks being arrested by appointment ? I can't see any ordinary Joes being afforded the same privilege.

[marinello59]

Why are these crooks being arrested by appointment ? I can't see any ordinary Joes being afforded the same privilege.

Show boating by the Met.

[Betty Boop]

Sir Paul Stephenson resigns. Any more for any more ? :rolleyes:

[Jonnyboy]

Sir Paul Stephenson resigns. Any more for any more ? :rolleyes:

Just Cameron to go then :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

Just Cameron to go then :greengrin

:greengrin Where will it all end ?

[Jonnyboy]

:greengrin Where will it all end ?

I reckon there's still a few high profile heads will roll :agree:

[Betty Boop]

I reckon there's still a few high profile heads will roll :agree:

Its hard to keep up with events as the story develops. I wonder what we all done before 24 hour news ? :confused:

[Jonnyboy]

Its hard to keep up with events as the story develops. I wonder what we all done before 24 hour news ? :confused:

Or internet messageboards?

Or Tweets

Or Facebook?

I'll stop now :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Its hard to keep up with events as the story develops. I wonder what we all done before 24 hour news ? :confused:Interesting question; I think that prior to 24 hour news the events themselves would happen more slowly as well, because there are just more people employed in publicity now, as a direct response to 24 hour news. Self-interest, generating stories where there are none, to justify your own job...

[Removed]

Or internet messageboards?Or TweetsOr Facebook?I'll stop now :greengrin Did you not tweet with pigeons in the old days :greengrin

[GORDONSMITH7]

Hi Gordon, thought you might be interested in this article from 1997, written by Nick Davies, of all people, which exposes the role of freemasonry in law enforcement.

http://www.intmensorg.info/masonicpolice.htm

Brilliant. Excellent article. Thanks again.

BIG G

[Beefster]

Just Cameron to go then :greengrin

It's not impossible that it will end up at that. He's got some bad decisions to justify and if it keeps escalating at the same rate for another week or two, he may very well be toast.

[Betty Boop]

Assistant Commissioner John Yates has now resigned. Dropping like tenpins now !

[Jonnyboy]

Did you not tweet with pigeons in the old days :greengrin

Aye - that took over from scratching stuff on a slate :greengrin

[heretoday]

I wonder if Rupert will pull a stunt tomorrow, like collapse in his seat. He is 80 after all and could probably get away with it.

His mum is 104 years old. Unfortunately they seem to live a long time in his family.

[magpie1892]

I wonder if Rupert will pull a stunt tomorrow, like collapse in his seat. He is 80 after all and could probably get away with it.

His mum is 104 years old. Unfortunately they seem to live a long time in his family.

Nice.

[Beefster]

I wonder if Rupert will pull a stunt tomorrow, like collapse in his seat. He is 80 after all and could probably get away with it.

His mum is 104 years old. Unfortunately they seem to live a long time in his family.

What Murdoch's mother done for you to wish her dead?

Left-wingers really don't like anyone disagreeing with them though, huh?

[heretoday]

What Murdoch's mother done for you to wish her dead?

Left-wingers really don't like anyone disagreeing with them though, huh?

Nope you're right. Curses! Foiled again.

Don't like Murdochs. They're baddies.

[Beefster]

Nope you're right. Curses! Foiled again.

Don't like Murdochs. They're baddies.

So what did his 104 year old mother do to attract your hatred?

[Hibrandenburg]

So what did his 104 year old mother do to attract your hatred?

Isn't spawning Murdoch enough? :dunno:

[Beefster]

Isn't spawning Murdoch enough? :dunno:

If you are into dreaming about/wishing folk dying then yes, I suppose, any excuse will do.

[Betty Boop]

Huge queues outside Portcullis House, to watch this afternoons proceedings. Stephenson and Yates up first.

[Beefster]

Huge queues outside Portcullis House, to watch this afternoons proceedings. Stephenson and Yates up first.

Stevenson is doing okay in answering IMO but his answers are not making him look particularly good (or competent). Took £12k hospitality without even questioning whether there might be a problem with the Commissioner taking it and claimed to not now that Wallis was working for Champneys? Sounds like basics to me.

[Betty Boop]

Stevenson is doing okay in answering IMO but his answers are not making him look particularly good (or competent). Took £12k hospitality without even questioning whether there might be a problem with the Commissioner taking it and claimed to not now that Wallis was working for Champneys? Sounds like basics to me.

Apparently 10 out of 45 members of Department of Public Affairs at the Met, have worked for the NOW. I find that astonishing !

[Beefster]

Apparently 10 out of 45 members of Department of Public Affairs at the Met, have worked for the NOW. I find that astonishing !

All very incestuous within the press, politics, PR and police it would appear.

Ironically, Dick Fedorcio, the Met's Comms guru, has given the worst performance of the three to the HA committee.

[Betty Boop]

All very incestuous within the press, politics, PR and police it would appear.

Ironically, Dick Fedorcio, the Met's Comms guru, has given the worst performance of the three to the HA committee.

Agree re Fedorcio. However Yates explanation about acting as a 'postbox', passing on Wallis daughter's CV, was ridiculous.

[Betty Boop]

Murdoch went in the back door of Number 10 after the last General Election :faf:

[heretoday]

Murdoch's son is a creepy one, eh? Good at obfuscation, smoke, mirrors etc. Meanwhile Dad plays the amnesiac card. Good tactics and great theatre.

They won't lay a finger on him. Over to you FBI.

[PeeJay]

RM has been attacked by some nutter with a plate of white foam apparently: what were security doing?:confused:

[EskbankHibby]

RM has been attacked by some nutter with a plate of white foam apparently: what were security doing?:confused:

Complete erse, detracts from the subject imo.

[Beefster]

RM has been attacked by some nutter with a plate of white foam apparently: what were security doing?:confused:


Complete erse, detracts from the subject imo.

Jonnie Marbles apparently. A 'comedian' seemingly but if this is anything to go by, he's not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmW3B_Ims0Q

[magpie1892]

Complete erse, detracts from the subject imo.

His new series debuts on Sky this autumn by way of a 'thank you'...

[Betty Boop]

Interesting to note that the NOW were paying the legal expenses of 'rogue private investigator' :rolleyes: Glen Mulcaire, long after he had been jailed.

[Hibs Class]

Jonnie Marbles apparently. A 'comedian' seemingly but if this is anything to go by, he 's not.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmW3B_Ims0Q Watched that; woeful.

[heretoday]

Phantom flan flinger finally unmasked!

Honestly the Met are going soft. All that hardware, army of PR men and lofty talk and one berk in a check shirt gets through to flan the man of the moment.

[Jonnyboy]

Managed to listen to much of today's proceedings on 5Live and I have to say I thought Sir Paul Stephenson sounded pretty nervous which is odd for someone in such a high ranking job (although he's now resigned), Fedorcio lived up to his first name, Yates was clealy pissed off that he'd resigned but sounded stupid when talking of his involvement in the CV of Paul Wallis's daughter. The Murdoch's - James used more cliches than Jim off The Apprentice and Rupert gave a stunning impersonation of someone flirting with dementia. Rebekka Brooks got off too lightly but that's because IMO much of the questioning throughout the day was poorly conceived and delivered. Watson and the female Tory MP whose name escapes me were at least asking the right pointed questions.

[lapsedhibee]

Managed to listen to much of today's proceedings on 5Live and I have to say I thought Sir Paul Stephenson sounded pretty nervous which is odd for someone in such a high ranking job (although he's now resigned), Fedorcio lived up to his first name, Yates was clealy pissed off that he'd resigned but sounded stupid when talking of his involvement in the CV of Paul Wallis's daughter. The Murdoch's - James used more cliches than Jim off The Apprentice and Rupert gave a stunning impersonation of someone flirting with dementia. Rebekka Brooks got off too lightly but that's because IMO much of the questioning throughout the day was poorly conceived and delivered. Watson and the female Tory MP whose name escapes me were at least asking the right pointed questions.

:hmmm: Louise Mensch. :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

:hmmm: Louise Mensch. :wink:

Cheers lh - thought she was pretty sharp and on the ball :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

Cheers lh - thought she was pretty sharp and on the ball :agree:

Aye, think she thought she was too, but this here (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/19/uk.phone.hacking.morgan/) perhaps suggests otherwise ...

[Beefster]

Aye, think she thought she was too, but this here (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/19/uk.phone.hacking.morgan/) perhaps suggests otherwise ...

Considering the hoo-haa ongoing and careers being trashed as a result of phone-hacking, I'd expect Morgan to deny being part of it - whether he was or not. There is absolutely no question that the Mirror (and likely the NOTW) broke the law whilst he was the Editor - the ICO report confirms this. He's in exactly the same position as Andy Coulson and Rebekah Brooks, with regards questions to be answered, IMO - it's just that News International have been the focus to date.

Having said all that, Morgan, Coulson and Brooks are only the tip of the iceberg.

[Betty Boop]

Blair, Brown and Cameron all sneaking Murdoch through the back door of No.10, sneaks the lot of them.

[lapsedhibee]

Considering the hoo-haa ongoing and careers being trashed as a result of phone-hacking, I'd expect Morgan to deny being part of it - whether he was or not.

Course he's guilty, but looks to me as if Mensch got a bit carried away with what she thought was an admission of guilt in his book, just as Brown seems to have got a bit carried away with his attacks on News International and exactly what they did to him. Brown also looking a tad silly after the 'back door entry/his children played with my children' stuff yesterday. Kinda detracts from the impact of their onslaughts, which are no doubt substantially true, if they get facts wrong. (Brown in particular should have said FACT at the end of his commons speech to make it more accurate.)

[Beefster]

Course he's guilty, but looks to me as if Mensch got a bit carried away with what she thought was an admission of guilt in his book, just as Brown seems to have got a bit carried away with his attacks on News International and exactly what they did to him. Brown also looking a tad silly after the 'back door entry/his children played with my children' stuff yesterday. Kinda detracts from the impact of their onslaughts, which are no doubt substantially true, if they get facts wrong. (Brown in particular should have said FACT at the end of his commons speech to make it more accurate.)

Mensch has possibly jumped the gun but I'm sure that it's 'job done' as far as she is concerned. I think whoever brought the stuff up about the legal payments to Mulcairne and Goodman did some good work too.

Brown - that was always going to explode in his face, considering how he courted them as Chancellor and PM. I thought, last week, that it looked entirely revenge-driven and it started to crumble within a few hours of his speech/interviews. Murdoch Snr knew exactly what he was doing when he mentioned Brown, their wives being friends and their kids playing together etc yesterday.

As BettyBoop alludes, Blair, Brown and Cameron are all guilty of exactly the same sort of **** and deserve to be held to account for it. As with the expenses scandal, the politicians are going to walk from this (far worse) scandal with barely a scratch, lots of facile public contrition and only a few, cosmetic, changes to the way they do their business. The political system in this country is absolutely rotten.

[s.a.m]

Course he's guilty, but looks to me as if Mensch got a bit carried away with what she thought was an admission of guilt in his book, just as Brown seems to have got a bit carried away with his attacks on News International and exactly what they did to him. Brown also looking a tad silly after the 'back door entry/his children played with my children' stuff yesterday. Kinda detracts from the impact of their onslaughts, which are no doubt substantially true, if they get facts wrong. (Brown in particular should have said FACT at the end of his commons speech to make it more accurate.)

Personally, I won't be persuaded until he reassures us that he got the information from the fellae that brings his fish.

[Bishop Hibee]

The whole circus of the Murdoch's appearance before the committee was car crash TV especially the grilling of RP by Watson. Pure gold for anyone interested in the mechanics of power. While we didn't learn much more re the extent of phone hacking, who knew what when etc. both Rupert and James Murdoch were obviously well briefed by the suits sitting behind them and played with a pretty straight bat. RM only went 'off message' once or twice when he had a go at his newspaper competitors and once when he was misquoted by a committee member who used the word "humiliated" rather than "humble" to describe RM's soundbite at the start of proceedings. RM was lightening quick to pick that up.

No danger James Murdoch will be allowed by shareholders to take over from is father. Tainted. They'd all better pray that no similar wrongdoing is found in their US media holdings as it'll make the current scandal seem like a picnic.

The circus moves to the emergency debate today. Should be interesting to hear what Cameron has to say.

Anyone still think Bilderburg is a harmless forum for exchanging ideas :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

The whole circus of the Murdoch's appearance before the committee was car crash TV especially the grilling of RP by Watson. Pure gold for anyone interested in the mechanics of power. While we didn't learn much more re the extent of phone hacking, who knew what when etc. both Rupert and James Murdoch were obviously well briefed by the suits sitting behind them and played with a pretty straight bat. RM only went 'off message' once or twice when he had a go at his newspaper competitors and once when he was misquoted by a committee member who used the word "humiliated" rather than "humble" to describe RM's soundbite at the start of proceedings. RM was lightening quick to pick that up.

No danger James Murdoch will be allowed by shareholders to take over from is father. Tainted. They'd all better pray that no similar wrongdoing is found in their US media holdings as it'll make the current scandal seem like a picnic.

The circus moves to the emergency debate today. Should be interesting to hear what Cameron has to say.

Anyone still think Bilderburg is a harmless forum for exchanging ideas :greengrin

Good point ! :agree:

[Betty Boop]

Neil Wallace was apparently giving 'informal advice' to Andy Coulson, in the run up to the General Election. No matter how often Cameron keeps chanting the mantra, that he was giving Coulson a second chance, by bringing him into the heart of Government, he is severely damaged. Rebekah Brooks said yesterday in her evidence to the select committee, that it was George Osbourne's decision to give Coulson the job. Cameron has just said that it was his decision and his alone. Will this be the end for Cameron if Coulson is charged with bribery, corruption and of course perjury in the Sheridan case?

[Beefster]

Neil Wallace was apparently giving 'informal advice' to Andy Coulson, in the run up to the General Election. No matter how often Cameron keeps chanting the mantra, that he was giving Coulson a second chance, by bringing him into the heart of Government, he is severely damaged. Rebekah Brooks said yesterday in her evidence to the select committee, that it was George Osbourne's decision to give Coulson the job. Cameron has just said that it was his decision and his alone. Will this be the end for Cameron if Coulson is charged with bribery, corruption and of course perjury in the Sheridan case?

Blair stuck it out over allegations of 'cash for laws' with Ecclestone and a 'cash for honours' police investigation. I'd be astonished if Cameron is pushed into resigning over making a bad appointment.

[marinello59]

Blair stuck it out over allegations of 'cash for laws' with Ecclestone and a 'cash for honours' police investigation. I'd be astonished if Cameron is pushed into resigning over making a bad appointment.

I hate to say it but I thought Cameron did well today. He has said he will apologise fully if Coulson is convicted. By that time it will probably be enough.

[Hibs Class]

Neil Wallace was apparently giving 'informal advice' to Andy Coulson, in the run up to the General Election. No matter how often Cameron keeps chanting the mantra, that he was giving Coulson a second chance, by bringing him into the heart of Government, he is severely damaged. Rebekah Brooks said yesterday in her evidence to the select committee, that it was George Osbourne's decision to give Coulson the job. Cameron has just said that it was his decision and his alone. Will this be the end for Cameron if Coulson is charged with bribery, corruption and of course perjury in the Sheridan case?How would Brooks know for certain the circumstances behind it?

[EskbankHibby]

I hate to say it but I thought Cameron did well today. He has said he will apologise fully if Coulson is convicted. By that time it will probably be enough.

Agree with you here M59, equipped himself well.

As an aside does Prime Ministers questions and other parts of our parliamentary process make you cringe as much as me? Our elected representatives bawling like bairns in a playground.

As for the farce of "can i just ask my honourable friend if he agrees with me........." - of course he agrees with you, he asked you to ask him the question.

Cringe.

[heretoday]

Cameron did do well and reestablished his Indian sign over young Ed. What a bunch they all are though! The speaker is like a roguish schoolmaster.

It's a tragedy that we can't trust the police to investigate and clear up the criminal matter of phone-hacking because you wouldn't bet on all the committees and inquiries in the land getting to the bottom of it.

I just hope that in the end we aren't left with a Kinnockesque panel of media regulators. Much as I dislike Murdoch and son, spare us from that.

[twiceinathens]

There is a certain gruesome satisfaction to be gained in watching the inevitable process of buckpassing and sanctimonious hypocrisy being displayed by politicians, senior police and media management

[Betty Boop]

How would Brooks know for certain the circumstances behind it?

I don't know, however it seems a strange statement to make. Maybe she was trying to shield Cameron ?

[bighairyfaeleith]

Blair stuck it out over allegations of 'cash for laws' with Ecclestone and a 'cash for honours' police investigation. I'd be astonished if Cameron is pushed into resigning over making a bad appointment.

Your right, to resign over this seems pretty far fetched, however if Cameron doesn't get the issue put to bed pretty quickly you just never know. I think this one is going to keep unravelling with more and more people starting to loosen there tongues, the lawyers for example that gave news international the advice back in 2003(?) are now free to answer why they gave that advice, the private investigator is no longer getting his legal fees paid by news international and so may well start spilling the beans, this will all throw up more and more questions.

I thought camerons non-answer today about the bskyb deal will just fuel speculation and while he probably has done nothing wrong he is not helping himself with the smart arse answers all the while smiling and joking with his own MP's. It's not something the public will appreciate.

No idea where it will end, but I genuinely don't think anyone else does either.

[aliman82]

How would Brooks know for certain the circumstances behind it?


I don't know, however it seems a strange statement to make. Maybe she was trying to shield Cameron ?

She was maybe lsitening to his phone messages? :greengrin

[Beefster]

Ex-Daily Mirror journalist says that phone hacking was rife at the Mirror too and implicates Piers Morgan and the current editor.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/james-murdoch-has-been-accused-of-misleading-british-parliament-over-the-extent-of-the-tabloid-hacking-scandal/story-fn7x8me2-1226100025277

I fully expect Ed Miliband to be calling for both of them and the CEO of Trinity Mirror to be sacked and admitting that he was too close to the Mirror...

[bighairyfaeleith]

Ex-Daily Mirror journalist says that phone hacking was rife at the Mirror too and implicates Piers Morgan and the current editor.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/james-murdoch-has-been-accused-of-misleading-british-parliament-over-the-extent-of-the-tabloid-hacking-scandal/story-fn7x8me2-1226100025277

I fully expect Ed Miliband to be calling for both of them and the CEO of Trinity Mirror to be sacked and admitting that he was too close to the Mirror...

has he employed piers morgan in a key government role?:confused:

[Beefster]

has he employed piers morgan in a key government role?:confused:

What's the relevance to him calling for them to be sacked?

Incidentally, the guy he has employed (Tom Baldwin) has been accused of 'blagging' when he worked at News International.

[bighairyfaeleith]

What's the relevance to him calling for them to be sacked?

Sorry I'm, genuinely not following you

Incidentally, the guy he has employed (Tom Baldwin) has been accused of 'blagging' when he worked at News International.

If he has employed someone from the news of the world that has done, or even been around when things happened then he should show the leadership he is berating cameron for not taking. What does blagging mean by the way?

As far as I'm concerned politicians shouldn't have spin doctors and media people at all, a complete ban on this is the way forward. I want to know if a politician is a prick, I don't want this hidden by a spin doctors speeches.

[Big Ed]

Ex-Daily Mirror journalist says that phone hacking was rife at the Mirror too and implicates Piers Morgan and the current editor.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/james-murdoch-has-been-accused-of-misleading-british-parliament-over-the-extent-of-the-tabloid-hacking-scandal/story-fn7x8me2-1226100025277

I fully expect Ed Miliband to be calling for both of them and the CEO of Trinity Mirror to be sacked and admitting that he was too close to the Mirror...

:wtf:
I have absolutely no doubt that all the national tabloids; Daily and Sunday are guilty of this, but this scandal about the News of the World has an avalanche of evidence that was covered up by the Police and has as a series of sub-plots: a botched murder enquiry, a potential perjury case, bribery, executives of NI accused of lying to Parliament and the apparent end of political influence of the biggest media player in British history.
What you have presented is a disgrunteled ex-Mirror employee making accusations.
I'm not saying he's wrong: I'm saying that when the evidence comes close to that of recent events, then you might have a point. Until then - there is no comparison.

[Beefster]

:wtf:
I have absolutely no doubt that all the national tabloids; Daily and Sunday are guilty of this, but this scandal about the News of the World has an avalanche of evidence that was covered up by the Police and has as a series of sub-plots: a botched murder enquiry, a potential perjury case, bribery, executives of NI accused of lying to Parliament and the apparent end of political influence of the biggest media player in British history.
What you have presented is a disgrunteled ex-Mirror employee making accusations.
I'm not saying he's wrong: I'm saying that when the evidence comes close to that of recent events, then you might have a point. Until then - there is no comparison.

Read the ICO report of 2006 (I think I posted a link earlier in this thread). There is plenty of evidence on the Mirror, Mail, Star, Express, Sun etc etc etc.

My point is more about politicians playing politics with this scandal. Ed Miliband didn't just exist from June 2011. He's been an integral part of the political system for a long time. That's ignoring the fact that a lot of the police corruption, invasions of privacy etc happened on Labour's watch.

I see there is now a bit of a bun fight between Lord Goldsmith, ex-Labour Attorney General and Lord MacDonald, ex-DPP regarding who knew what about phone hacking and why they didn't investigate/prosecute.

The only ones who can probably sit back and feel smug are the Lib Dems but even they would have been courting the press to the same degree if anyone had taken them seriously before the last year or two.

Edit: Someone now accusing the Sunday Mirror. Trinity Mirror reacting in exactly the same way as News International did in the beginning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14259180

[Betty Boop]

Strathclyde Police open an full investigation for perjury, against Andy Coulson in the Sheridan trial. He has hired Paul McBride, who represented Gail Sheridan, in the same trial.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/22/andy-coulson-investigated-perjury-allegations

[Big Ed]

Read the ICO report of 2006 (I think I posted a link earlier in this thread). There is plenty of evidence on the Mirror, Mail, Star, Express, Sun etc etc etc.

My point is more about politicians playing politics with this scandal. Ed Miliband didn't just exist from June 2011. He's been an integral part of the political system for a long time. That's ignoring the fact that a lot of the police corruption, invasions of privacy etc happened on Labour's watch.

I see there is now a bit of a bun fight between Lord Goldsmith, ex-Labour Attorney General and Lord MacDonald, ex-DPP regarding who knew what about phone hacking and why they didn't investigate/prosecute.

The only ones who can probably sit back and feel smug are the Lib Dems but even they would have been courting the press to the same degree if anyone had taken them seriously before the last year or two.

Edit: Someone now accusing the Sunday Mirror. Trinity Mirror reacting in exactly the same way as News International did in the beginning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14259180

I’m well aware of the existence of the Report; I suspect that the enquiry into the behaviour of the Press will focus on it in great detail, but I feel your request for Miliband to call for the resignations of Trinity Mirror executives, based on his perceived closeness to them, is exaggerated and partisan.

I do agree with you about politicians faux-indigence in all of this, but I don’t think that you can blame Miliband for taking the opportunity to land a blow on the Tories here.

There is not enough evidence to make Cameron resign at the moment, but I suspect that Miliband thinks that he is lying about whether or not he was told that Coulson was toxic. Every time he is pushed on this, Cameron is forced to respond and potentially say something that will come back to haunt him if more evidence comes to light. It is tiresome though.

The arrogance and complacency of the Press, Politicians, PCC and the Police have been shown right up and there is much more to come.

Bring it on :greengrin

[Beefster]

I’m well aware of the existence of the Report; I suspect that the enquiry into the behaviour of the Press will focus on it in great detail, but I feel your request for Miliband to call for the resignations of Trinity Mirror executives, based on his perceived closeness to them, is exaggerated and partisan.

I do agree with you about politicians faux-indigence in all of this, but I don’t think that you can blame Miliband for taking the opportunity to land a blow on the Tories here.

There is not enough evidence to make Cameron resign at the moment, but I suspect that Miliband thinks that he is lying about whether or not he was told that Coulson was toxic. Every time he is pushed on this, Cameron is forced to respond and potentially say something that will come back to haunt him if more evidence comes to light. It is tiresome though.

The arrogance and complacency of the Press, Politicians, PCC and the Police have been shown right up and there is much more to come.

Bring it on :greengrin

Course it is. Just like Miliband's actions recently. I just hate hypocrisy and Miliband was no better with the press than anyone. If he's not consistent with how he treats the news groups, he'll have proven it he's not sincere.

Cameron's ridden the storm, unless something sensational comes out. Even if he was warned, if Coulson was denying any involvement and there was no real evidence to prove he was lying (and he hasn't been convicted of anything yet) then the worst thing he has done is show poor judgement. In the grand scheme of Prime Ministerial wrongdoing, it's nothing.

None of which excuses him for his part in sucking up to the press, particularly News International.

[Twa Cairpets]

New revelations in the Guardian. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/16/phone-hacking-now-reporter-letter)
Murdochs shown to be lying Shock

[Hibs Class]

New revelations in the Guardian. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/16/phone-hacking-now-reporter-letter)
Murdochs shown to be lying Shock

I laughed at the bit below, from the BBC report on the story. I'm sure this is far from the first time NI have given such a commitment.


Responding to the release of Goodman's letter, a News International spokesman said: "We recognise the seriousness of materials disclosed to the police and Parliament and are committed to working in a constructive and open way with all the relevant authorities."