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View Full Version : Does Our Club Have Any Leadership Whatsoever At The Moment?



smurf
29-06-2011, 08:55 AM
And if so can any examples of it be given?

What exactly did our 'leadership' think of our performance as a football club in season 2010/2011.

Where do they think we need to improve if they think that we do?

What was the last piece of communication from our 'leadership' to us the fans?

Just asking as most organisations successful in life have a bit of leadership. And we appear to have none whatsoever.

And appear to be just drifting....

Wheat Hound
29-06-2011, 09:22 AM
Snap, just posted similar thread on the bounce!!!

mickki40
29-06-2011, 09:25 AM
The last communication we had from the club to the fans was a reply with regard to the waving flag type flags and a place to store them within the club premises as we were going to buy a 100 of them to Brighten up the atmosphere. Storage has been on the agenda for almost a year. We had also planned to Hang all the flags at the back for the opening game against Celtic. Instead we are now told we can't hang the flags without the use of a ladder which we need to now purchase. It will now take an age to hang flags, so I think we won't bother anymore. The club asked for the Dimensions of the waving flags etc and spoke about fire ******ant certificates etc. They are the same flags that we always use for waving and don't need a certificate. Some 12th man guys are making new banners and stuff for the new season, However these will not be allowed in the ground now. Instead the club went on about how no flares and smoke will be allowed in ( something the away support tends to do). That's something we have never done. To support Hibernian football club is increasingly frustrating as leadership and people being able to make snap decisions is lacking even at the non playing level. It seems that whenever a decision is needed it takes months. I could have had a risk assessment done for hanging flags in 5 minutes and it most certainly would not entail buying ladders to hang flags. The communication with the club was within the last 7 days

Dr Jimmy
29-06-2011, 09:26 AM
I my opinion, NO we do not have any leadership at present and YES we are drifting.

The bottom line for me is the club are drifting further and further into mediocrity and I fully expect it to get worse before it gets better, especially with with the "special one" at the helm!

Andy74
29-06-2011, 09:33 AM
And if so can any examples of it be given?

What exactly did our 'leadership' think of our performance as a football club in season 2010/2011.

Where do they think we need to improve if they think that we do?

What was the last piece of communication from our 'leadership' to us the fans?

Just asking as most organisations successful in life have a bit of leadership. And we appear to have none whatsoever.

And appear to be just drifting....

The club quite often put out confirmation of the vision and the plan and it's not changed in some time.

Every time they do they confirm that success on the park is their main priority.

Generally when Hibs do say something like this it's then ridiculed.

We had a statement last week about no approach being made for CC but they can't respond to everyting every day.

What is it you are expecting just now? And do you think it will be any different from the fact that they want football success, will not put the club in danger though and will only speak about things when there is something to say?

Golden Bear
29-06-2011, 09:58 AM
We are also crying out for good leadership ON THE PARK!

It's something that's been sadly lacking for a number of years now and it's exactly why we need to sign an experienced pro who can cajole the others into going the extra mile when it is needed most.

EasterRoad4Ever
29-06-2011, 10:01 AM
The club quite often put out confirmation of the vision and the plan and it's not changed in some time.

Every time they do they confirm that success on the park is their main priority.

Generally when Hibs do say something like this it's then ridiculed.

We had a statement last week about no approach being made for CC but they can't respond to everyting every day.

What is it you are expecting just now? And do you think it will be any different from the fact that they want football success, will not put the club in danger though and will only speak about things when there is something to say?

A definition of success would be a good start. Most clubs state their given goals and ambitions for the season ahead and beyond. The silence from Hibs on both of these has been deafening for years. They are basically crap at communication so just don't seem to bother any more. That is interpreted as arrogance by their paying customers, who unsurprisingly have left in droves. I suspect the collapse in ST sales will be the biggest in Hibs history, and (proportion wise) maybe the biggest ever int he SPL.

Hibs seem to concentrate on "marketing" merchandise and selling stuff, when the basic product is flawed - and worryingly - they don't appear to know what they are going.

Andy74
29-06-2011, 10:04 AM
A definition of success would be a good start. Most clubs state their given goals and ambitions for the season ahead and beyond. The silence from Hibs on both of these has been deafening for years. They are basically crap at communication so just don't seem to bother any more. That is interpreted as arrogance by their paying customers, who unsurprisingly have left in droves. I suspect the collapse in ST sales will be the biggest in Hibs history, and (proportion wise) maybe the biggest ever int he SPL.

Hibs seem to concentrate on "marketing" merchandise and selling stuff, when the basic product is flawed - and worryingly - they don't appear to know what they are going.

I think they have consistently said that success is challenging for European places and challenging for the cups.

There are often complaints of this kind and every time the club do say something it's ignored.

hibs0666
29-06-2011, 10:06 AM
And if so can any examples of it be given?

What exactly did our 'leadership' think of our performance as a football club in season 2010/2011.

Where do they think we need to improve if they think that we do?

What was the last piece of communication from our 'leadership' to us the fans?

Just asking as most organisations successful in life have a bit of leadership. And we appear to have none whatsoever.

And appear to be just drifting....

What do you mean by leadership?

marinello59
29-06-2011, 10:12 AM
I think they have consistently said that success is challenging for European places and challenging for the cups.

There are often complaints of this kind and every time the club do say something it's ignored.

Exactly. Whatever the club say is dismissed as the usual platitudes, appeasement, too little too late, insulting the fans intelligence, lies etc etc. It's an area where the club just can't win.

Personally I don't care much for mission statements, it's action that counts.

smurf
29-06-2011, 10:18 AM
The club quite often put out confirmation of the vision and the plan and it's not changed in some time.

Every time they do they confirm that success on the park is their main priority.

Generally when Hibs do say something like this it's then ridiculed.

We had a statement last week about no approach being made for CC but they can't respond to everyting every day.

What is it you are expecting just now? And do you think it will be any different from the fact that they want football success, will not put the club in danger though and will only speak about things when there is something to say?

"...last season was hugely disappointing. Next year we know we must do much better". Rod Petrie.

"Finishing tenth is unacceptable for a club of our standing. We all know that.". Scott Lindsay.

Such comments if we got them would give an interesting insight.

But they don't give such comments. And won't.

smurf
29-06-2011, 10:19 AM
What do you mean by leadership?

Where do we begin? In every respect our club is leaderless. And its reflected in where we are as a football club.

Speedway
29-06-2011, 10:20 AM
Smurf, aren't the board saying that by saying that they expect the club to be competing at the top end of the table every season?

smurf
29-06-2011, 10:24 AM
Smurf, aren't the board saying that by saying that they expect the club to be competing at the top end of the table every season?

The mission statement (2007 IIRC?) was very good. How does the words of objectives compare to the reality though?

Last season was yet again complete failure. This summer I detect no real sense of addressing things to turn things around.

Certainly nothing is being communicated to the contrary...

Speedway
29-06-2011, 10:27 AM
The mission statement (2007 IIRC?) was very good. How does the words of objectives compare to the reality though?

Last season was yet again complete failure. This summer I detect no real sense of addressing things to turn things around.

Certainly nothing is being communicated to the contrary...

That's my point, if the aims haven't changed and the AGM restates those each year and proves the board keep backing whatever manager we have that week with increased budgets, what would the need be to reiterate the same sentiments all over again?

2007 - The board can confirm that it is their aim to see Hibs play in green shirts with white sleeves.

2008 - The board can.....

What need is there?

Captain Trips
29-06-2011, 10:30 AM
Last 10 Finishes:
10th
4th
6th
6th
6th
4th
3rd
8th
7th
10th

For me 6th isnt top end of SPL in an acceptable sense it may be in top half but IMO 6th is a failure for Hibs, 3x in last 10 seasons the club has finished imo at the top end of league where we are supposed to be finishing imo, if the mission statement means top end ie 6th is ok then we have even more problems. I expect them to not only compete at top end but to be more succesful at it. That statement can simply mean top 6 is ok, well it is not ok for me.

The Hibs board is failing the football club on the pitch no matter how much they are supposed to back managers it is simply bad appointments that cost Hibs. It is time somebody acted at the top of this club and got in some people whom can manage this club on the park, Hibs are wasting money year on year with this manger in/out carry on, signing players to suit every new manager then punting them or having them stay and contribute not a lot as the new manager doesnt rate them.

Rod Hibs are a footballing shambles.

Ray_
29-06-2011, 10:32 AM
Smurf, aren't the board saying that by saying that they expect the club to be competing at the top end of the table every season?

Yes they do & they also mention going far in cup competitions, our size and potential within the Scottish game should determine that anyway, however, all too often we fall woefully short of those expectations.

Stevie Reid
29-06-2011, 10:34 AM
I know exactly what the club's goals and ambitions are, and am extremely perplexed to find that so many seem to think that they are state secrets. There's nothing that I need to know that Hibs haven't told me - I was actually surprised that they commented on the specualtion regarding Calderwood and Forest last week, given that nothing had actually happened.

Hearts have a recognised leader in Vladimir Romanov and he was just responsible for the biggest PR distaster that any football club has ever known, on the back of several other embarrassing outburts in the past - I'm extremely glad that we don't have to put up with the whims of one influential figure.

Leadership on the park is certainly required but that's the responsibility of the manager. You of course want a firm leader as a manager but Mixu and Yogi were leaders on the park, who could blame the board for thinking that such strong figures would be influential managers?

I'm struggling to see who is being attacked here - or are we just giving Hibs in general a kicking?

hibs0666
29-06-2011, 10:42 AM
To help answer the question, here are ten characteristics of a well-functioning team of emnployees...

Purpose: Members proudly share a sense of why the team exists and are invested in accomplishing its mission and goals.

Looking a bit dodgy here, what with the manager off to Notts Forest. Or is it Birmingham? Mind you, recently, we've tried managers that wear their hearts on their sleeves and they've been utterly ****** as well.

Priorities: Members know what needs to be done next, by whom, and by when to achieve team goals.

Think we're OK here - our team looks pish at the moment, the season is looming large and I think everyone at ER knows it.

Roles: Members know their roles in getting tasks done and when to allow a more skillful member to do a certain task.

Well the Mouser picks the transfer targets according to some 'ITK' so maybe he's a mini-me of Romanov but is keeping it below the radar. More seriously the relative roles of Petrie and Lindsay are unclear and we don't know yet whether an assistant manager is needed/in place.

Decisions: Authority and decision-making lines are clearly understood.

No problems here. Hughes might have wanted to be the HR director as well as football manager but he knew from the outset that he wasn't on.

Conflict: Conflict is dealt with openly and is considered important to decision-making and personal growth.

We do conflict in the open alright.

Personal traits: members feel their unique personalities are appreciated and well utilized.

No idea, but there is no reason to assume that is not the case.

Norms: Group norms for working together are set and seen as standards for every one in the groups.

We have a standard. Unfortunately it is a pretty low standard at the moment.

Effectiveness: Members find team meetings efficient and productive and look forward to this time together.

It all comes together on the day at Easter Road so well all know how effective that has been lately.

Success: Members know clearly when the team has met with success and share in this equally and proudly.

The metric of success isn't clear at Easter Road.

Training: Opportunities for feedback and updating skills are provided and taken advantage of by team members.

We do lots of training.

SkintHibby
29-06-2011, 07:45 PM
Last 10 Finishes:
10th
4th
6th
6th
6th
4th
3rd
8th
7th
10th

For me 6th isnt top end of SPL in an acceptable sense it may be in top half but IMO 6th is a failure for Hibs, 3x in last 10 seasons the club has finished imo at the top end of league where we are supposed to be finishing imo, if the mission statement means top end ie 6th is ok then we have even more problems. I expect them to not only compete at top end but to be more succesful at it. That statement can simply mean top 6 is ok, well it is not ok for me.

The Hibs board is failing the football club on the pitch no matter how much they are supposed to back managers it is simply bad appointments that cost Hibs. It is time somebody acted at the top of this club and got in some people whom can manage this club on the park, Hibs are wasting money year on year with this manger in/out carry on, signing players to suit every new manager then punting them or having them stay and contribute not a lot as the new manager doesnt rate them.

Rod Hibs are a footballing shambles.

Best post on here for a while! Well said that man!:top marks

Albion Hibs
29-06-2011, 08:16 PM
Is this is new "why have they told us about any signings thread" equivalent?!

Yes, we have plenty of leadership we have a manager, a strong well appointed board, and a team of players that has been bolstered significantly over the past six months to the extent our new team manager has in place pretty much his own group of players, not bad in my view. Lets not forget a board that game him the support he needed to get the team we have.

I think out off all the teams in the league our club probably has had the strongest vision as to what they wanted to achieve over the last 5 years, and they have done that, again testament to their leadership.

Kaiser1962
29-06-2011, 08:18 PM
What do you mean by leadership?

He wants a conglomerate to buy the club and put him in charge. That'll sort it right enough.

Removed
29-06-2011, 08:29 PM
Personally I don't care much for mission statements, it's action that counts.

........and fans forums


Still waiting Fife :I'm waiti

new malkyhib
29-06-2011, 10:08 PM
Is this is new "why have they told us about any signings thread" equivalent?!

Yes, we have plenty of leadership we have a manager, a strong well appointed board, and a team of players that has been bolstered significantly over the past six months to the extent our new team manager has in place pretty much his own group of players, not bad in my view. Lets not forget a board that game him the support he needed to get the team we have.

I think out off all the teams in the league our club probably has had the strongest vision as to what they wanted to achieve over the last 5 years, and they have done that, again testament to their leadership.

Is this on or off the park? Because the oft-quoted "competing at the top end of the league, latter stages of the cups, European qualification"...etc., has patently NOT been achieved even it that's what they "wanted to achieve" (to paraphrase you).

Or have I missed the cup semis/final appearances and European nights?

Gala Foxes
29-06-2011, 10:16 PM
after the dire end to last season we have :

(1) a Manager that clearly doesn't feel he can commit to the club
(2) a centre forward on a drugs charge
(3) a midfielder on a disciplinary that in any other industry would be on a criminal charge & be dismissed already
(4) a much lauded assistant (Adams) that has seen fit to move to a team that plays in a rural town with a population of a couple of thousand from Hibs

not good - amidst all that chaos our chairman says ? - absolutely nothing

Spike Mandela
29-06-2011, 10:22 PM
Last 10 Finishes:
10th
4th
6th
6th
6th
4th
3rd
8th
7th
10th

For me 6th isnt top end of SPL in an acceptable sense it may be in top half but IMO 6th is a failure for Hibs, 3x in last 10 seasons the club has finished imo at the top end of league where we are supposed to be finishing imo, if the mission statement means top end ie 6th is ok then we have even more problems. I expect them to not only compete at top end but to be more succesful at it. That statement can simply mean top 6 is ok, well it is not ok for me.

The Hibs board is failing the football club on the pitch no matter how much they are supposed to back managers it is simply bad appointments that cost Hibs. It is time somebody acted at the top of this club and got in some people whom can manage this club on the park, Hibs are wasting money year on year with this manger in/out carry on, signing players to suit every new manager then punting them or having them stay and contribute not a lot as the new manager doesnt rate them.

Rod Hibs are a footballing shambles.

THE only word to describe Hibs pre season 2011

IWasThere2016
29-06-2011, 11:07 PM
after the dire end to last season we have :

(1) a Manager that clearly doesn't feel he can commit to the club
(2) a centre forward on a drugs charge
(3) a midfielder on a disciplinary that in any other industry would be on a criminal charge & be dismissed already
(4) a much lauded assistant (Adams) that has seen fit to move to a team that plays in a rural town with a population of a couple of thousand from Hibs

not good - amidst all that chaos our chairman says ? - absolutely nothing

He's good at it though :wink:

As for the earlier point re RP/SL's roles .. RP says and SL does. SL is ChEx in name only. RP has total control - he is the accountable one.

Beefster
30-06-2011, 05:20 AM
And if so can any examples of it be given?

What exactly did our 'leadership' think of our performance as a football club in season 2010/2011.

Where do they think we need to improve if they think that we do?

What was the last piece of communication from our 'leadership' to us the fans?

Just asking as most organisations successful in life have a bit of leadership. And we appear to have none whatsoever.

And appear to be just drifting....

Leadership isn't just about communication so, while their communication is generally poor, I wouldn't use that as a barometer.

Leadership is about appointing the right people to key positions and giving them the tools, working environment and authority to be successful in that role. In that respect, Hibs have utterly failed.

Off the field, they're very good at building stuff though.

KWJ
30-06-2011, 05:31 AM
We are also crying out for good leadership ON THE PARK!

It's something that's been sadly lacking for a number of years now and it's exactly why we need to sign an experienced pro who can cajole the others into going the extra mile when it is needed most.

Somebody like Sean O'Hanlon perhaps? Wonder where he is these days :wink:

KWJ
30-06-2011, 05:34 AM
I think there are a few leaders in the team now, especially if we go with Murray in centre mid where I thought he did surprisingly well during our decent run. Was always said his legs had gone, which I agreed seemed to be the case when he was at LB but at CM he was box to box.

So with Stack in goals, O'Hanlon at the back (along with a growing leader in Hanlon), Murray in the middle and Gaz & Akpo up front I'd say we've a decent spine of leaders around. Ivan filling in too from wide. Stevenson has clocked up a rather surprising amount of appearances for Hibs as well, big season for him.

JimBHibees
30-06-2011, 06:07 AM
And if so can any examples of it be given?

What exactly did our 'leadership' think of our performance as a football club in season 2010/2011.

Where do they think we need to improve if they think that we do?

What was the last piece of communication from our 'leadership' to us the fans?

Just asking as most organisations successful in life have a bit of leadership. And we appear to have none whatsoever.

And appear to be just drifting....

At least your consistent if not a little repetitive. :greengrin

sunshine1875
30-06-2011, 06:07 AM
Has anyone got a link to the statement that was issued a couple of years ago? It seemed to follow a period when a lot of fans on here were questioning our leadership and direction, IIRC.

It would be good to read it again!

JimBHibees
30-06-2011, 06:09 AM
"...last season was hugely disappointing. Next year we know we must do much better". Rod Petrie.

"Finishing tenth is unacceptable for a club of our standing. We all know that.". Scott Lindsay.

Such comments if we got them would give an interesting insight.

But they don't give such comments. And won't.

Why would we want them to state the bleedingly obvious.

Kaiser1962
30-06-2011, 06:26 AM
Leadership isn't just about communication so, while their communication is generally poor, I wouldn't use that as a barometer.

Leadership is about appointing the right people to key positions and giving them the tools, working environment and authority to be successful in that role. In that respect, Hibs have utterly failed.

Off the field, they're very good at building stuff though.

But they have the tools and the working environment. Talented people in this industry get very big wages that we do have the income to match. Once they prove they are talented they are offered huge money (not just personally) and the quality of player they are working with, or able to attract, increases ten fold. At Hibs they are very unlikely to get anywhere near the Old Firm so their opportunities are limited.

I dont think CC has proved himself to be particularly talented yet, but hoped he would this season, and he seems to be sought after already. It beggars belief if we're not even going to get a year out of a manager now.

I also notice that Der Hun have failed on all their main signing targets as well (to date at least) so i think that tells us more about the market we are in.

British League anyone?

Beefster
30-06-2011, 06:34 AM
But they have the tools and the working environment. Talented people in this industry get very big wages that we do have the income to match. Once they prove they are talented they are offered huge money (not just personally) and the quality of player they are working with, or able to attract, increases ten fold. At Hibs they are very unlikely to get anywhere near the Old Firm so their opportunities are limited.

I dont think CC has proved himself to be particularly talented yet, but hoped he would this season, and he seems to be sought after already. It beggars belief if we're not even going to get a year out of a manager now.

I also notice that Der Hun have failed on all their main signing targets as well (to date at least) so i think that tells us more about the market we are in.

British League anyone?

I wasn't specifically referring to our budget. I think the Board do as well as they can on the budget front given the current income - increasing the income is another topic.

It was more about how things are run and who is in charge of what at ER. I'd argue that enlightened, successful businesses recruit a manager (sometimes passing it to experts to do), give him complete control of running his division (with a budget but he can use that budget how he sees fit) and only get directly involved when that manager requests something or isn't meeting performance targets.

Kaiser1962
30-06-2011, 06:50 AM
I wasn't specifically referring to our budget. I think the Board do as well as they can on the budget front given the current income - increasing the income is another topic.

It was more about how things are run and who is in charge of what at ER. I'd argue that enlightened, successful businesses recruit a manager (sometimes passing it to experts to do), give him complete control of running his division (with a budget but he can use that budget how he sees fit) and only get directly involved when that manager requests something or isn't meeting performance targets.


Thats fair enough but i would counter :greengrin that there appears to no concrete evidence that the club does not allow the manager to spend his budget as he sees fit other than a couple of ambiguous one liners attributed to a manager who was sacked/left due to poor performance in his area of expertise. While Yogi said he didnt have "full control" he never at any time said he was told what to do football wise.

I will concede, however, that we should perhaps look at the recruitment process perhaps using ex players at the interview stage. That said you could argue that CC is a "successful appointment" because he's being poached.

This won't alter the unpalatable reality that if the appointed (annointed?) candidate is any good he will be off to pastures new in a season and a half, or bulleted if he's not and it starts again.

smurf
30-06-2011, 07:19 AM
Why would we want them to state the bleedingly obvious.

Aren't most 'team talks' just stating the "bleedingly obvious"?:wink:

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 08:27 AM
[/B]

Is this on or off the park? Because the oft-quoted "competing at the top end of the league, latter stages of the cups, European qualification"...etc., has patently NOT been achieved even it that's what they "wanted to achieve" (to paraphrase you).

Or have I missed the cup semis/final appearances and European nights?

I would think both, lets be honest it is not that long since we won a trophy, qualified for europe, built a new stadium - how many other clubs in the SPL or any other league have done that within the same time period?

In response to the quote you have used, the year before last we had a good season overall which saw us finish 4th and spend much of the season higher than that, we won the CIS cup, and qualified for europe last year. Alas they could say they have achieved these things in part, with the acknowledgement that consistancy is the one thing lacking. Mission Statements and the like will usually have a time period for achievement what was this one?

Fact of the matter is we can all moan about something, but I go back to the top paragraph what other clubs have been led by their boards and managers to achieving all of that over the past 5 or so years?

Ray_
30-06-2011, 08:40 AM
Fact of the matter is we can all moan about something, but I go back to the top paragraph what other clubs have been led by their boards and managers to achieving all of that over the past 5 or so years?

IMHO that was the easy part, we had the assets to sell [land & players], which enabled us to do that. The difficult part will be the next five years as the club need to reverse the current trend, which is seeing fans deserting the club in droves and in turn, causing a large financial deficit.

Beefster
30-06-2011, 08:45 AM
I would think both, lets be honest it is not that long since we won a trophy, qualified for europe, built a new stadium - how many other clubs in the SPL or any other league have done that within the same time period?

In response to the quote you have used, the year before last we had a good season overall which saw us finish 4th and spend much of the season higher than that, we won the CIS cup, and qualified for europe last year. Alas they could say they have achieved these things in part, with the acknowledgement that consistancy is the one thing lacking. Mission Statements and the like will usually have a time period for achievement what was this one?

Fact of the matter is we can all moan about something, but I go back to the top paragraph what other clubs have been led by their boards and managers to achieving all of that over the past 5 or so years?

In the last 5 years....

Motherwell have qualified for Europe and reached a cup final.

Hearts have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Dundee Utd have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Aberdeen have qualified for Europe.

Cropley10
30-06-2011, 10:38 AM
In the last 5 years....

Motherwell have qualified for Europe and reached a cup final.

Hearts have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Dundee Utd have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Aberdeen have qualified for Europe.

:agree: And we've sold the family silver off, had 5 managers, who knows how-many players come and go and just finished 10th!!

You can use statistics anyway you like - but there's no denying we're on a downward trajectory...

Speedway
30-06-2011, 12:45 PM
In the last 5 years....

Motherwell have qualified for Europe and reached a cup final.

Hearts have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Dundee Utd have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Aberdeen have qualified for Europe.

Hibs have won the LC and qualified for Europe

Beefster
30-06-2011, 12:47 PM
Hibs have won the LC and qualified for Europe

They have. The poster I was responding to asked if any other clubs had achieved the same as us in the last five years.

Speedway
30-06-2011, 12:49 PM
They have. The poster I was responding to asked if any other clubs had achieved the same as us in the last five years.

Apologies Beef, I read the highlighted part incorrectly.

Beefster
30-06-2011, 12:52 PM
Apologies Beef, I read the highlighted part incorrectly.

No worries. I do it regularly myself!

Jim44
30-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Did Colin Deadwood not say that a 1% improvement on last season would be an improvement? :rolleyes::bitchy:

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 01:42 PM
In the last 5 years....

Motherwell have qualified for Europe and reached a cup final.

Hearts have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Dundee Utd have won the SC and qualified for Europe.

Aberdeen have qualified for Europe.

Stadiums, training ground, financial position?

Everyone can adopt the spoilt child attitude of "I want everything" but realism needs to kick in at some point.

I am sure everyone on here has ripped a Jambo about the rented training ground, and the rank little stadium, in doing that you have to take account of the successes we have but need to accept the fact it cant all come at once, and the only reason you can do that to any of the above teams is the leadership of our club.

You could chose to be in awe of the above things you have mentioned, or chose what we have. Other than hertz winning a cup it is really no different to what we have done less the huge significance of the infrastructure expenditure Hibs have made at Easter Road and East Mains.

Beefster
30-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Stadiums, training ground, financial position?

All very good but all of the improvements to these three things in the last five years has been almost entirely because we were lucky enough to have the 'golden generation' come through at once and were able to sell most of them to suitors.

I'm not sure that they are any great endorsement of the master plan of the Board. No Brown, O'Connor, Thomson, Murphy, Fletcher and co - no capital investment without substantially increasing the debt.

Ray_
30-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Stadiums, training ground, financial position?

Everyone can adopt the spoilt child attitude of "I want everything" but realism needs to kick in at some point.

I am sure everyone on here has ripped a Jambo about the rented training ground, and the rank little stadium, in doing that you have to take account of the successes we have but need to accept the fact it cant all come at once, and the only reason you can do that to any of the above teams is the leadership of our club.

You could chose to be in awe of the above things you have mentioned, or chose what we have. Other than hertz winning a cup it is really no different to what we have done less the huge significance of the infrastructure expenditure Hibs have made at Easter Road and East Mains.

We did not do anything exceptional to achieve it, we sold off a once in several generations, collective bunch of riches & the land, what is sooo clever about that? I will be impressed when we start to get close to filling the said stadium on a regular basis though!

Kaiser1962
30-06-2011, 02:12 PM
We did not do anything exceptional to achieve it, we sold off a once in several generations, collective bunch of riches & the land, what is sooo clever about that? I will be impressed when we start to get close to filling the said stadium on a regular basis though!

We had them to sell?

The players who left didnt want to stay and we were stitched up over the land deal.

Of the clubs mentioned in a previous post Motherwell have been in administration, Hearts are a basket case and the Dons and Utd are beholding to and functioning on the goodwill and financial support of their owners.

If somebody wants to step in throw many millions of pounds at the club, money that wont be recovered, then crack on.

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 02:23 PM
We did not do anything exceptional to achieve it, we sold off a once in several generations, collective bunch of riches & the land, what is sooo clever about that? I will be impressed when we start to get close to filling the said stadium on a regular basis though!

But in the meantime stand back and thow stones whilst sitting in the stadium and no doubt having a dig at a few jambos for their predicament.

Out of interest how much do you feel this once in a generation group of players would have made of us if they had stayed the guts of 10m - we would have to win just about everything going.

Not realistic, more nostalgic in my view.


We had them to sell?

The players who left didnt want to stay and we were stitched up over the land deal.

Of the clubs mentioned in a previous post Motherwell have been in administration, Hearts are a basket case and the Dons and Utd are beholding to and functioning on the goodwill and financial support of their owners.

If somebody wants to step in throw many millions of pounds at the club, money that wont be recovered, then crack on.

Bang on. We did have to sell them or we would have ended up with nothing when they walked away for free. There on the pitch achievements in my view are unlikely to have amounted to what we recieved back from them.

Each of the players gave several seasons, so we got entertainment value from that, in addition we benefited significantly and were able to invest in the club which fans for generations will benefit from.

Stevie Reid
30-06-2011, 02:25 PM
We did not do anything exceptional to achieve it, we sold off a once in several generations, collective bunch of riches & the land, what is sooo clever about that? I will be impressed when we start to get close to filling the said stadium on a regular basis though!

If we didn't do anything exceptional to achieve our current sound financial footing and completed infrastructure, how come every other SPL club isn't in the same position as us financially and with a training centre?

The Golden Generation was exceptional, it is rare for so many young players to come through at once and the club, the youth system, the coaching staff and the scouting network all deserve credit for that. They players contributed to some excellent football, high league finishes and a cup win and semi final appearances, before almost wiping out £17M worth of debt when they were sold - is that not exceptional?

The amount of times that our achievements get talked down and dismissed on this board is unbelievable.

IWasThere2016
30-06-2011, 02:34 PM
The players who left didnt want to stay and we were stitched up over the land deal

You've lost me K'62 :confused:

Kaiser1962
30-06-2011, 02:38 PM
You've lost me K'62 :confused:

The car park, Farmer and housing. City council and court case and so on.

Ray_
30-06-2011, 05:06 PM
But in the meantime stand back and thow stones whilst sitting in the stadium and no doubt having a dig at a few jambos for their predicament.

Out of interest how much do you feel this once in a generation group of players would have made of us if they had stayed the guts of 10m - we would have to win just about everything going.

Not realistic, more nostalgic in my view.



Bang on. We did have to sell them or we would have ended up with nothing when they walked away for free. There on the pitch achievements in my view are unlikely to have amounted to what we recieved back from them.

Each of the players gave several seasons, so we got entertainment value from that, in addition we benefited significantly and were able to invest in the club which fans for generations will benefit from.

I haven't a clue what you are going on about!!

Selling saleable assets is not an exceptional achievement, what will be exceptional is if we start producing a product that will bi-weekly pack out our stadium.

Kaiser1962
30-06-2011, 05:09 PM
I haven't a clue what you are going on about!!

Selling saleable assets is not an exceptional achievement, what will be exceptional is if we start producing a product that will bi-weekly pack out our stadium.

When did that last happen?

RIP
30-06-2011, 05:11 PM
I think our board are playing the long game and going about things in the right way

Ray_
30-06-2011, 05:15 PM
If we didn't do anything exceptional to achieve our current sound financial footing and completed infrastructure, how come every other SPL club isn't in the same position as us financially and with a training centre?

The Golden Generation was exceptional, it is rare for so many young players to come through at once and the club, the youth system, the coaching staff and the scouting network all deserve credit for that. They players contributed to some excellent football, high league finishes and a cup win and semi final appearances, before almost wiping out £17M worth of debt when they were sold - is that not exceptional?

The amount of times that our achievements get talked down and dismissed on this board is unbelievable.

The Golden Generation was exceptional, agreed, and the management and back-room rightly deserve credit for the emergence of that team.

What made that team exceptional was the amount of talent coming through together. For the club to be exceptional, it would be to produce that sort of talent on a regular basis & not having to witness the dross that driven so many of the support away from ER.

Ray_
30-06-2011, 05:16 PM
When did that last happen?

So why waste money & expand, if that wasn't the aim?

Andy74
30-06-2011, 05:21 PM
We did not do anything exceptional to achieve it, we sold off a once in several generations, collective bunch of riches & the land, what is sooo clever about that? I will be impressed when we start to get close to filling the said stadium on a regular basis though!

We did, we made several difficult decisions very early that no-one here understood why and were dead against.

These led to being in a position where we awere ahead of the game and ultimatley we were able to get the best money for our players because we were in a position to demand it and not jump at the first offer because we needed to.

The arrangements that were put in place for the land around the stadium and the repurchase of the stadium were done on extremely beneficial terms and the board and owner need to be given credit for doing that and not lining any pockets.

The footballing side is one thing and despite a lot of backing something isn't working, but it's a bit much to try and belittle the achievements that have been made off the park.

Ray_
30-06-2011, 05:40 PM
We did, we made several difficult decisions very early that no-one here understood why and were dead against.

These led to being in a position where we awere ahead of the game and ultimatley we were able to get the best money for our players because we were in a position to demand it and not jump at the first offer because we needed to.

The arrangements that were put in place for the land around the stadium and the repurchase of the stadium were done on extremely beneficial terms and the board and owner need to be given credit for doing that and not lining any pockets.

The footballing side is one thing and despite a lot of backing something isn't working, but it's a bit much to try and belittle the achievements that have been made off the park.

Andy I don't think the money we got for those players was wonderful, selling O'Connor, the timing was poor & 1.6m wasn't that impressive, considering a season in Russia brought a 1.3M profit for the Eastern Europeans.

It was John Collins who put his foot down regarding price & fair enough Petrie backed him, but again I don't think there was one player who went for an overly inflated price, that accolade belongs to the jambo's, who held out & got 9M for spotty, Hibs had to sell Brown, Thomson, Whit's & Murphy to achieve that.

With regard to the difficult decisions, how on earth can you say it was successful. We have gone from a support with a very high feel good factor & brilliant football to watch & record amounts of tangible income, to where we are now, dire football & haemorrhaging money!!

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 08:12 PM
I haven't a clue what you are going on about!!

Selling saleable assets is not an exceptional achievement, what will be exceptional is if we start producing a product that will bi-weekly pack out our stadium.

That is stating the obvious, I might argue that the provision of the training centre from the sale of your golden generation would assist that.

At the end of the day we had a good group of players, we grew them, used them and sold them to extract value and put it back into the cycle of Hibernian football club.

To think they would still be there now is crazy, I do not believe any of them would have remained beyond there existing contract, we would therefore still have debt, be training on public parks, and have the old east stand. People are entitled to their own views, in my own view it is crazy to rattle on about "what if we still had" "we should not have sold" etc.

I go back to my original question which of the clubs you noted originally have achieved what we have on and off the field?

Further to the above how many of these clubs and fans do you think would change places with us if they could?

Kaiser1962
30-06-2011, 08:13 PM
So why waste money & expand, if that wasn't the aim?


It should always be the aim but its never happened in our history. The suggestion was that it may be easily achieved with the right product was on the park or the right people in charge.

It wont because there has been much much better product and it didnt happen then.


While it should always be the aim history tells us its not worth gambling on.

new malkyhib
30-06-2011, 09:33 PM
It should always be the aim but its never happened in our history. The suggestion was that it may be easily achieved with the right product was on the park or the right people in charge.

It wont because there has been much much better product and it didnt happen then.


While it should always be the aim history tells us its not worth gambling on.

Yes, you're right - let's just pack up and go home.

Ray_
30-06-2011, 09:33 PM
That is stating the obvious, I might argue that the provision of the training centre from the sale of your golden generation would assist that.

At the end of the day we had a good group of players, we grew them, used them and sold them to extract value and put it back into the cycle of Hibernian football club.

To think they would still be there now is crazy, I do not believe any of them would have remained beyond there existing contract, we would therefore still have debt, be training on public parks, and have the old east stand. People are entitled to their own views, in my own view it is crazy to rattle on about "what if we still had" "we should not have sold" etc.

I go back to my original question which of the clubs you noted originally have achieved what we have on and off the field?

Further to the above how many of these clubs and fans do you think would change places with us if they could?

I really don't know what you are on about in context to what I said about the board having done the easy bit, i.e. swap assets for debt reduction & infrastructure. The hard bit is to produce a product that will entice people to spend their money on Hibs, not drive them away, as is what is happening at the moment.

IWasThere2016
30-06-2011, 09:35 PM
The footballing side is one thing and despite a lot of backing something isn't working, but it's a bit much to try and belittle the achievements that have been made off the park.

The two are linked however .. And despite being core business the football side of matters has not been the priority eg GO'C sale and poor replacements when players are sold. (Ironically, the next sale and arguably the most valuable asset we have at this moment is CC).

We will always and will always have to sell players - regardless of the Board's soundbites 'that we do not need to sell' .. We do. Our operating losses mean we do.

Why do we have operating losses - because on the park it is not good enough .. The last time it was, under JC, we traded at a profit .. Proof that on field success means off field success. The converse is not true!

down the slope
30-06-2011, 09:36 PM
That is stating the obvious, I might argue that the provision of the training centre from the sale of your golden generation would assist that.

At the end of the day we had a good group of players, we grew them, used them and sold them to extract value and put it back into the cycle of Hibernian football club.

To think they would still be there now is crazy, I do not believe any of them would have remained beyond there existing contract, we would therefore still have debt, be training on public parks, and have the old east stand. People are entitled to their own views, in my own view it is crazy to rattle on about "what if we still had" "we should not have sold" etc.

I go back to my original question which of the clubs you noted originally have achieved what we have on and off the field?

Further to the above how many of these clubs and fans do you think would change places with us if they could?

Aye everything is fine !,

Andy74
30-06-2011, 09:39 PM
The two are linked however .. And despite being core business the football side of matters has not been the priority eg GO'C sale and poor replacements when players are sold. (Ironically, the next sale and arguably the most valuable asset we have at this moment is CC).

We will always and will always have to sell players - regardless of the Board's soundbites 'that we do not need to sell' .. We do. Our operating losses mean we do.

Why do we have operating losses - because on the park it is not good enough .. The last time it was, under JC, we traded at a profit .. Proof that on field success means off field success. The converse is not true!

Agree and agree something isn't right on how the football side is being run.

Think it's time for Petrie to hang up the tache and see if we can't stop making the football side look so difficult.

IWasThere2016
30-06-2011, 09:43 PM
Agree and agree something isn't right on how the football side is being run.

Think it's time for Petrie to hang up the tache and see if we can't stop making the football side look so difficult.

Yup - the football side is also the harder part to get right - but our Board we have been found wanting too often for too long under RP.

We were Scotland's no. 1 underachievers pre-RP and we still are .. The acid test for me.

The impact of all this underachievement - falling STs/crowds.

There is no upward spiral just ever decreasing circles .. Time for change - and it should be from the top down..

Ray_
30-06-2011, 09:50 PM
It should always be the aim but its never happened in our history. The suggestion was that it may be easily achieved with the right product was on the park or the right people in charge.

It wont because there has been much much better product and it didnt happen then.


While it should always be the aim history tells us its not worth gambling on.

It didn't happen with McLeish's team because the distrust between the fans & the board had alienated a lot of the support.

Many came back during the mid-naughties with the combined efforts of SUABC & more influentially, TM's team & footballing philosophy & the affect produced record amounts of tangible income for the club. We [as a club] clearly had learned after the abject failure to cash in during McLeish's reign.

It didn't last though, as the sexy football gave way to the dire performances of recent seasons.

The gamble has already been taken with the East Stand built [incurring more debt, but justified in my opinion] & a larger ground capacity & like I've been maintaining, the real difficult job for the board is to keep on producing teams to use that capacity & then we truly say that the board have done an exceptional job.

Bad Martini
30-06-2011, 11:57 PM
The fact is with all this "progress", we've been in decline.

We have less debt than ever before...and less points to show for it.

It's been said too many times. This beautiful stadium, training ground and general infrastructure is all meaningless if it produces the sum total of **** all. I class 10th place, 11 points of the bottom and losing to the worst teams in the league as the sum total of **** all by the way, for the avoidance of all doubt.

I call losing to dross and exiting the cups in a humiliating fashion achieving the sum total of **** all.

Its just, not, good enough.

So why pretend it is?

Show me someone who accepts losing and I will show you a loser. If the aim of the game is not to win, then what is the ****ing point, ma lord?

Indeed. All the crap that goes around it is just that. What REALLY matters, before crowds drop, merchandise isnt sold and subsequently sold at half price and we go backwards is football. The key. The word not often used in this debate.

Football.

Not all the other stuff. What MATTERS, to 99.9% of punters going to the game is FOOTBALL. Patience is a wonderful thing. It has however, been exhausted for many...

Next season MUST be a return to good fitba, good results and some frickin progress. Otherwise, I predict, a riot.

No more excuses. No more "transition" or "development" periods. Results. Improvement and progress.

ENDOF

Kaiser1962
01-07-2011, 06:12 AM
[/B]

Yes, you're right - let's just pack up and go home.

I never said that. As usual you twist things to suit youself.

Kaiser1962
01-07-2011, 06:21 AM
It didn't happen with McLeish's team because the distrust between the fans & the board had alienated a lot of the support.

Many came back during the mid-naughties with the combined efforts of SUABC & more influentially, TM's team & footballing philosophy & the affect produced record amounts of tangible income for the club. We [as a club] clearly had learned after the abject failure to cash in during McLeish's reign.

It didn't last though, as the sexy football gave way to the dire performances of recent seasons.

The gamble has already been taken with the East Stand built [incurring more debt, but justified in my opinion] & a larger ground capacity & like I've been maintaining, the real difficult job for the board is to keep on producing teams to use that capacity & then we truly say that the board have done an exceptional job.


What you are saying is not wrong but we didnt fill the stadium bi-weekly under Turnbull and we didnt fill it with the famous five. Different times and different criteria and you could argue both points all night but that is the reality.

Scottish Football is a shrinking market place and the gulf vetween the top two and the rest is huge, probably larger, or at least as large, as anywhere else. We will have occassional days and occassional good teams, like we have had all my life but thats it.

While we should always be trying to improve we are, imo, doing it the right way in taking small measured steps. History is against us though.

IWasThere2016
01-07-2011, 06:31 AM
Scottish Football is a shrinking market place and the gulf vetween the top two and the rest is huge, probably larger, or at least as large, as anywhere else. We will have occassional days and occassional good teams, like we have had all my life but thats it.

Making the decision to spend the last of the cash on the East - taking on more debt, incurring interest costs and increasing the cost base (on the non-footbaLling side) all the more staggering!

Kaiser1962
01-07-2011, 06:39 AM
Making the decision to spend the last the cash, take on more debt, incur interest costs and increase the cost base all the more staggering!

Probably.

I do think though if the stadium was the other way round and the East had been built first, or the flats had never been built, then the new stand would not be built yet. A number of factors conspired against us and kind of forced the issue.

If that makes any sense?

Ray_
01-07-2011, 08:11 AM
What you are saying is not wrong but we didnt fill the stadium bi-weekly under Turnbull and we didnt fill it with the famous five. Different times and different criteria and you could argue both points all night but that is the reality.

Scottish Football is a shrinking market place and the gulf vetween the top two and the rest is huge, probably larger, or at least as large, as anywhere else. We will have occassional days and occassional good teams, like we have had all my life but thats it.

While we should always be trying to improve we are, imo, doing it the right way in taking small measured steps. History is against us though.

Football during Turnbull's spell in charge was different than today, Rangers attracted 80k to Ibrox for a European Semi & had 4k at Ibrox against Morton, all in the same month.

Hibs best attendance [not biggest] was against East Fife, when 17k turned up five days after the 7-0 game, however, this also was the beginning of the end of the TT's, our next match saw a 0-1 reverse at Dundee Utd as injuries & suspensions saw the decline that ended up with us third & rapidly exited from the two remaining cup competitions, therefore, just like the team, crowd wise, we were left to ponder what might have been.

What you are saying is defeatist, Hibs are one of the top teams in the land & yes, who have a history of woeful underachieving, but all too often this has been caused by the dreadful way we have been run.

The Hibs board have said they want to aim to regularly qualify for Europe & challenge for cups, rightly so, with a club of Hibs status, it shouldn't be any other way. The team in the middle of the 00's proved people would come & spend money on Hibs, if the product was right and sold properly, it shows it can be done.

Albion Hibs
01-07-2011, 09:37 AM
I really don't know what you are on about in context to what I said about the board having done the easy bit, i.e. swap assets for debt reduction & infrastructure. The hard bit is to produce a product that will entice people to spend their money on Hibs, not drive them away, as is what is happening at the moment.

Again you have failed to answer the questions that I asked. On that basis I will take that as none of them have achieved what we have on and off the pitch as a whole, and all of them would take our position if they could.


Aye everything is fine !,

Dont believe I said that. What I did say is our club have worked hard to achieve a long standing infrastructure and furture to hibs, not just for us to enjoy next season, but for decades to come. If you have a swipe at the jambos for there debt and crap stadium and you are doing so only beacause of what our board have achieved. Using them as an example they are practically bankrupt and have some pipe dream every three months about creating a proper stadium - would you rather finish third every so often and have their position?

The question is do we have leadership - there can be no doubt that are club has a clearer vision of were it wants to be and is consistantly making choices and decisions to get us there. I would go as far as to say the have a clear view and leadership path than any other club in the league.

I believe our club has taken a longer term view...rome was not built in a day and all that. They have invested in something that we as Hibs fans will always have and in doing so ensuring that we have a sound financial footing to invest in the changable part of the club - the playing side.

I am not interested in players that we have sold and what they could or could not have done. We have what we have now and I would not change that for the sake of being able to look at Thomson and Brown play every week for the balance of their original contracts.

Speedway
01-07-2011, 12:20 PM
I notice that Smurf, having started this thread, is now plainly failing to lead the discussion and put his stamp of authority on it's outcomes.

As one of the highest earners on .net, what exactly is he doing to justify his membership here?

Yet again, we see that this thread has turned into a rambling shambles as he has comprehensively failed to offer any sort of direction for it.

It's a disgrace, the thread is just drifting. Perhaps there just be a deadline put on when this thread will be closed. It's dragging on far too long and I'm sick of it.

The finger of blame only points in one direction.

Get it sorted!

Smmmuuuuuuurrrrrrfffff!!!!

Ray_
01-07-2011, 12:54 PM
Again you have failed to answer the questions that I asked. On that basis I will take that as none of them have achieved what we have on and off the pitch as a whole, and all of them would take our position if they could.



Dont believe I said that. What I did say is our club have worked hard to achieve a long standing infrastructure and furture to hibs, not just for us to enjoy next season, but for decades to come. If you have a swipe at the jambos for there debt and crap stadium and you are doing so only beacause of what our board have achieved. Using them as an example they are practically bankrupt and have some pipe dream every three months about creating a proper stadium - would you rather finish third every so often and have their position?

The question is do we have leadership - there can be no doubt that are club has a clearer vision of were it wants to be and is consistantly making choices and decisions to get us there. I would go as far as to say the have a clear view and leadership path than any other club in the league.

I believe our club has taken a longer term view...rome was not built in a day and all that. They have invested in something that we as Hibs fans will always have and in doing so ensuring that we have a sound financial footing to invest in the changable part of the club - the playing side.

I am not interested in players that we have sold and what they could or could not have done. We have what we have now and I would not change that for the sake of being able to look at Thomson and Brown play every week for the balance of their original contracts.

What we have now is a stadium that we can't hope to fill out regularly & a product that is driving people away in droves.

I don't know what your question is, but if you are asking how we are competing with teams of relevant size to ours, both Aberdeen & Hearts have far better records than us, over the time you have spent on this earth & both finished above us last season.

Our ground is better & we have our own training facilities, however, sadly since owing them, we have produced some of the worst displays that I've ever witnessed Hibs produce & as such our financial position is worsening year on year, with little assets to sell, to bail us out this time, therefore we need to get it right on the pitch to attract those fans you have little time for.

Hearts are not bankrupt & the debt is in the hands of Vlad, who knows where it'll end up, a crystal ball would be needed for that, however, Motherwell and several other teams are there plying their trade, with little evidence of recent financial mishap.

Albion Hibs
01-07-2011, 01:38 PM
What we have now is a stadium that we can't hope to fill out regularly & a product that is driving people away in droves.

A stadium that as a fan I am sure you are proud of? I go back to my view noted before - there is a real spoilt child attitude about a section of our fans - delighted to have a strong financial position, good stadium and training facility - but that is not good enough we need everything now. People need to get real - expecting anything at once is not going to happen.

We have invested in the right things first, if the fans are running away they maybe need to look at themselves not the club.

I don't know what your question is, but if you are asking how we are competing with teams of relevant size to ours, both Aberdeen & Hearts have far better records than us, over the time you have spent on this earth & both finished above us last season.

The post above focused, like I initial said, on the last 5 years. Going back to the point our club has led us in a very sound direction during this time, a direction which I dont think you can agrue is better than any of the above mentioned clubs.

Our ground is better & we have our own training facilities, however, sadly since owing them, we have produced some of the worst displays that I've ever witnessed Hibs produce & as such our financial position is worsening year on year, with little assets to sell, to bail us out this time, therefore we need to get it right on the pitch to attract those fans you have little time for.

The first bit I would suggest you have a word with yourself, we have had the stand for a year and the training centre for about 3. Again I go back to expecting everything in 5 minutes.

Hearts are not bankrupt & the debt is in the hands of Vlad, who knows where it'll end up, a crystal ball would be needed for that, however, Motherwell and several other teams are there plying their trade, with little evidence of recent financial mishap.

I think you need to read the paper more - I think you will find all clubs in the SPL consistantly moan about there debt and financial resource, I am proud that we do not have bits in the paper about being skint and millions and millions in debt. You should be to.



Someone was getting a little excited above about sticking to the point, I dont think I could be more to the point. Anyone who argues we dont have leadership from the top down is kidding themselves. Our board has a plan, the manager they put in place has a plan, and in the pitch we have two or three players we could have leading us.

You can be as negative as you want about hibs, but I think our board have led us in a good direction. I agree last season was gash, the season before was decent, but the reality is both have passed. There has been significant changes on the pitch and I am hopeful that this is the start of investing on that front.

Kaiser1962
01-07-2011, 02:05 PM
What you are saying is defeatist, Hibs are one of the top teams in the land & yes, who have a history of woeful underachieving, but all too often this has been caused by the dreadful way we have been run.



I prefer "realist" Ray :greengrin


Following the 7-0 game Hibs finished 2nd that season and 2nd again the next followed by a third for season 75-76.

Ray_
01-07-2011, 02:06 PM
Someone was getting a little excited above about sticking to the point, I dont think I could be more to the point. Anyone who argues we dont have leadership from the top down is kidding themselves. Our board has a plan, the manager they put in place has a plan, and in the pitch we have two or three players we could have leading us.

You can be as negative as you want about hibs, but I think our board have led us in a good direction. I agree last season was gash, the season before was decent, but the reality is both have passed. There has been significant changes on the pitch and I am hopeful that this is the start of investing on that front.


Our present owner & his board didn't turn up five years ago, but over twenty, patience you say, it is nearly sixty years ago since we won the title & more than a hundred since the national cup, we are in a constant state of transition & like it or not, we are millions in debt & it's rising because of being unable to get things right on the park, I think it is you who is kidding yourself.

Ray_
01-07-2011, 02:08 PM
I prefer "realist" Ray :greengrin If it make you happy, then no bother :greengrin

Albion Hibs
01-07-2011, 02:30 PM
Our present owner & his board didn't turn up five years ago, but over twenty, patience you say, it is nearly sixty years ago since we won the title & more than a hundred since the national cup, we are in a constant state of transition & like it or not, we are millions in debt & it's rising because of being unable to get things right on the park, I think it is you who is kidding yourself.

Same for every club in the league re debt - crowds are not solely down to performance.

I go back to my original point. Every club out with rangers and celtic would take our overall position as a club, if you dont see that you have lost it.

With regards winning the league, I think you need to sit down - even with your so called golden generation it was not going to happen...as best you can hold on to the "yeah but it might have". If the league is what you are after I think you would be better off spending the day...in fact the next 20 years in Ikea.

Ray_
01-07-2011, 02:49 PM
I prefer "realist" Ray :greengrin


Following the 7-0 game Hibs finished 2nd that season and 2nd again the next followed by a third for season 75-76.

Nope, even before our final league game, a 0-3 defeat by Celtic, Rangers had already beaten us to second. we came in second the two seasons following that, the last of which saw Rangers winning the title.

Ray_
01-07-2011, 03:03 PM
Same for every club in the league re debt - crowds are not solely down to performance.

I go back to my original point. Every club out with rangers and celtic would take our overall position as a club, if you dont see that you have lost it.

With regards winning the league, I think you need to sit down - even with your so called golden generation it was not going to happen...as best you can hold on to the "yeah but it might have". If the league is what you are after I think you would be better off spending the day...in fact the next 20 years in Ikea.

What are you going on about, you were talking as though Hibs were that well run that they are the only team WITHOUT debt. My golden generation :greengrin, what I said about them was using them as as an example when the crowds & money were pouring in [record amounts, in all area's of the business, as was being reported] & that we never got anywhere near the money for any of them, that Hearts did with Gordon, is any of that untrue?

PS I've never ever been to IKEA & I don't know where the nearest one is to where I live, but I can tell you something, there's plenty of options for entertainment for me, at a fraction of the price of a trip to Edinburgh, to watch a dire football match, which is almost all that's been on offer at ER during the last 3-4 years.

Kaiser1962
01-07-2011, 03:10 PM
Nope, even before our final league game, a 0-3 defeat by Celtic, Rangers had already beaten us to second. we came in second the two seasons following that, the last of which saw Rangers winning the title.

Even worse then if we finished third that year and secont the following two followed by a third. 7-0 was hardly the end of TT's if they were yet to achieve their two best finishes.

Settle for that now I think.

Ray_
01-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Even worse then if we finished third that year and secont the following two followed by a third. 7-0 was hardly the end of TT's if they were yet to achieve their two best finishes.

Settle for that now I think.

Without a doubt would settle for it. The TT's was often acknowledged as the team that played in the 7-0 game & in much of the games that season, leading up to that match & the East Fife match, a few days later. The TT's DVD highlights that team as well.

Because of the injuries & suspensions, I'm not sure if the TT's played together again, the following match, Dundee Utd, Des Bremner made his debut at RB & Bobby Smith and Tony Higgins were others that made their debut during the second half of the season.

Onion was out over a year & by that time, Harper had joined and soon afterwards the exodus started.

Kaiser1962
01-07-2011, 03:51 PM
Without a doubt would settle for it. The TT's was often acknowledged as the team that played in the 7-0 game & in much of the games that season, leading up to that match & the East Fife match, a few days later. The TT's DVD highlights that team as well.

Because of the injuries & suspensions, I'm not sure if the TT's played together again, the following match, Dundee Utd, Des Bremner made his debut at RB & Bobby Smith and Tony Higgins were others that made their debut during the second half of the season.

Onion was out over a year & by that time, Harper had joined and soon afterwards the exodus started.

Thats the team I remember and associate as TT's I suppose as well. It might be said the team that got the best finishes was NOT TT's then. Bizarre how the memory fools us.