How does this compare to the cost of the Trams?

[Hibbyradge]

£131m per mile! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13924687)

And why no furore?

[Removed]

Is it not because they were delivered ahead of plan and budget?

I heard about it on the radio but the cost was never mentioned.

[J-C]

No furore because this was needed as an upgrade not as a whim from the last Labour Scottish government and Mr McConnell.

[Killiehibbie]

Is it not because they were delivered ahead of plan and budget?

I heard about it on the radio but the cost was never mentioned.Some would argue that it's years late and hundreds of millions more than it should've been. I wonder when they'll complete M8?

[One Day Soon]

No furore because this was needed as an upgrade not as a whim from the last Labour Scottish government and Mr McConnell.

Aye, that'll be why John Swinney supported it then?

[J-C]

Aye, that'll be why John Swinney supported it then?


The future of the Edinburgh Trams project came under threat in 2007 when the Scottish National Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party) (SNP) published in its manifesto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto) for the Scottish Parliamentary election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_general_election,_2007) its intention to cancel the scheme, along with the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Airport_Rail_Link), in order to save a total of £1.1bn.
In the debate on the Government's Transport program various opposition politicians made statements defending the Edinburgh Trams project. In particular, Labour MSP Wendy Alexander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Alexander) said "The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change claimed that the costs were out of control, but they are not."[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-15)
Following a vote which it lost in the Scottish Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament), the SNP-led minority Scottish Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Government) agreed to continue with the line from the Airport to Leith on condition that no more public money would be supplied if the project overran. A report by Audit Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audit_Scotland), commissioned by the Scottish Government, confirmed that the cost projections were sound.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-16)[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-17)
Initial costs for the scheme were £498 million, with £375 million funding from the Scottish Government and £45 million by Edinburgh council.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-docherty-shaw-18)
On 25 October 2007 the City of Edinburgh Council gave approval to the Final Business Case. Approval was given by the Council[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-19) on 22 December 2007 for tie to sign contracts with CAF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construcciones_y_Auxiliar_de_Ferrocarriles)[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-20) for the supply of the vehicles and BBS (a consortium of Siemens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens) and Bilfinger Berger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilfinger_Berger))[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-21) for the design, construction and building of the network. Contract negotiations were concluded in April 2008 with construction of the network commencing in June 2008.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-22)

[One Day Soon]

The future of the Edinburgh Trams project came under threat in 2007 when the Scottish National Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party) (SNP) published in its manifesto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto) for the Scottish Parliamentary election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_general_election,_2007) its intention to cancel the scheme, along with the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Airport_Rail_Link), in order to save a total of £1.1bn.
In the debate on the Government's Transport program various opposition politicians made statements defending the Edinburgh Trams project. In particular, Labour MSP Wendy Alexander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Alexander) said "The Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change claimed that the costs were out of control, but they are not."[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-15)
Following a vote which it lost in the Scottish Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament), the SNP-led minority Scottish Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Government) agreed to continue with the line from the Airport to Leith on condition that no more public money would be supplied if the project overran. A report by Audit Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audit_Scotland), commissioned by the Scottish Government, confirmed that the cost projections were sound.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-16)[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-17)
Initial costs for the scheme were £498 million, with £375 million funding from the Scottish Government and £45 million by Edinburgh council.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-docherty-shaw-18)
On 25 October 2007 the City of Edinburgh Council gave approval to the Final Business Case. Approval was given by the Council[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-19) on 22 December 2007 for tie to sign contracts with CAF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construcciones_y_Auxiliar_de_Ferrocarriles)[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-20) for the supply of the vehicles and BBS (a consortium of Siemens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens) and Bilfinger Berger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilfinger_Berger))[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-21) for the design, construction and building of the network. Contract negotiations were concluded in April 2008 with construction of the network commencing in June 2008.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams#cite_note-22)

I must firstly counsel you that you are supposed to be ignoring me.

Anyway, try this: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/features/Edinburgh-has-been-penalised-for.2415871.jp

It's an interview with Swinney from 2003 and it says this:

'And while he welcomes the Scottish Executive’s announcements last month on funding to bring back trams to Edinburgh and the go-ahead for a rail link to the airport, he wants them to be put in place faster.

"The measures that are coming forward - the tramlines, the link to the airport, the expansion in capacity at Waverley Station - are all welcome developments, but they have been a long time in the coming and a long time in the talking about."

"We have got to intensify the pace of undertaking these developments. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard the new Waverley Station was just around the corner, the new Edinburgh airport rail link is just round the corner. People are fed up with these promises always being round the corner. They just want to see some diggers constructing these things."

Pretty unequivocal really.

[Removed]

Some would argue that it's years late and hundreds of millions more than it should've been. I wonder when they'll complete M8?

Or the National Monument on Calton Hill :grr:, is that still called Edinburgh's disgrace or has it been superceded by the main stand at the pbs :dunno:

[johnbc70]

£131m per mile! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13924687)

And why no furore?

It is a disgrace that people involved in so called 'public projects' are so incompetent and if they worked anywhere else would have been given the boot a long time ago. It seems like as it is the public purse that is paying the attitude is "so what, its not like we will run out of money" and they just keep spending and spending and extending the deadlines. Look at the Scottish Parliament, look at the Trams and then look at this.

For the building of the new forth road bridge take the figure that has been quoted and triple it, and then add 2/3 years to when it is expected to be completed by.

Anywhere else these people would be sacked!

[J-C]

I must firstly counsel you that you are supposed to be ignoring me.

Anyway, try this: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/features/Edinburgh-has-been-penalised-for.2415871.jp

It's an interview with Swinney from 2003 and it says this:

'And while he welcomes the Scottish Executive’s announcements last month on funding to bring back trams to Edinburgh and the go-ahead for a rail link to the airport, he wants them to be put in place faster.

"The measures that are coming forward - the tramlines, the link to the airport, the expansion in capacity at Waverley Station - are all welcome developments, but they have been a long time in the coming and a long time in the talking about."

"We have got to intensify the pace of undertaking these developments. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard the new Waverley Station was just around the corner, the new Edinburgh airport rail link is just round the corner. People are fed up with these promises always being round the corner. They just want to see some diggers constructing these things."

Pretty unequivocal really.

As said in a previous thread, I will ignore you unless you post after me, then I'll read to see if it's a personal childish jibe at me that you usually respond with.

This swinney interview is a nothing story, all he's saying is if and only if the trams are given the go ahead, then hopefully they can be put in place a lot quicker and cost effective than other so called projects by the Scottish Executive, remember the Labour Party were the minority ruling party then. Yes he said they were welcome but that was when the original cosy was around £245m.

[One Day Soon]

As said in a previous thread, I will ignore you unless you post after me, then I'll read to see if it's a personal childish jibe at me that you usually respond with.

This swinney interview is a nothing story, all he's saying is if and only if the trams are given the go ahead, then hopefully they can be put in place a lot quicker and cost effective than other so called projects by the Scottish Executive, remember the Labour Party were the minority ruling party then. Yes he said they were welcome but that was when the original cosy was around £245m.

Its not a nothing story, its an explicit endorsement of the proposal to build the Edinburgh tram system from Swinney in his capacity as SNP leader at the time. That rather flies in the face of the claims made by the SNP in Edinburgh that they have always opposed it. They haven't.

So now that we are clear that the SNP were in favour of the trams from the beginning, the debate is over who mismanaged their construction. Now, who was leading Edinburgh when the contract was signed for the tram construction? The current SNP/Lib Dem council I believe.

Tsk, tsk.

[J-C]

Its not a nothing story, its an explicit endorsement of the proposal to build the Edinburgh tram system from Swinney in his capacity as SNP leader at the time. That rather flies in the face of the claims made by the SNP in Edinburgh that they have always opposed it. They haven't.

So now that we are clear that the SNP were in favour of the trams from the beginning, the debate is over who mismanaged their construction. Now, who was leading Edinburgh when the contract was signed for the tram construction? The current SNP/Lib Dem council I believe.

Tsk, tsk.

September 2002: Donald Anderson and his Labour city council unveil their £1.5 billion transport vision for the Edinburgh, including three proposed tram routes, with part funding coming from congestion charging for city access.
March 2003: Jack McConnell’s transport minister, one Iain Gray, awards £375m from the Scottish Executive’s integrated transport fund to said city council to build tram lines to serve the north and west, the first to be running by 2009. Mr Gray says the money would pay for “at least” the North Edinburgh Loop. The council believes this will also pay for a line from Haymarket to the airport.

June 2007: Despite a pre-election commitment to scrap the project, the new SNP government is steamrollered by 81 votes to 47 as Tories join Labour and the Lib-Dems to insist the stunted tram project goes ahead. But Scottish Government funding is pegged to a maximum of £500 million.

September 2010: Speaking to Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce’s AGM Labour leader Iain Gray rules out additional funding for Edinburgh’s trams if his party returns to power. Despite claiming Edinburgh is now suffering from its long-delayed tram project, Mr Gray refuses to offer any lifeline, describing the handling of the project as “a tragedy”,
Given Gray’s pivotal role in this tragedy, his present pious hostility is rich but it means TIE and its trams have no friends left. Once-vocal champions like his transport predecessor Sarah Boyack are conspicuously absent. Watch for their innocent alibis when the fiscal time-bomb, set a-ticking by colleagues Brown and Darling, explodes so violently in ECC finances that even longtime tram supporters give it the coup de grace. Then, the whole mess can skid to a halt with derelict city centre sites as a fitting memorial.


enough said.:confused: