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View Full Version : Yams Rangers bid for Lee Wallace



Spike Mandela
22-06-2011, 05:26 PM
Surprise surprise:greengrin

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13875645.stm

Beefster
22-06-2011, 05:28 PM
The Yams are saying that Hearts should hold out for the money we got for Brown - completely ignoring the fact that he's not half the player Brown is and that Brown had about 3.5 years left on his contract.

Pedantic_Hibee
22-06-2011, 05:30 PM
All I ever hear from Hearts fans on Kickback is that they would never sell to the Old Firm, it's only us that do it.

However, a bid has been received and Hearts have went public with it.

Hmmm, the Hearts fans won't like this, it would once again leave them with egg on their face. I suspect right now they'll be sweating like Craig Thomson in PC World. Ho hum.

KeithTheHibby
22-06-2011, 05:31 PM
The Yams are saying that Hearts should hold out for the money we got for Brown - completely ignoring the fact that he's not half the player Brown is and that Brown had about 3.5 years left on his contract.

They really are a bunch of thick f***s at times.

500k shall see him head west.

And so the sale begins...:greengrin

NORTHERNHIBBY
22-06-2011, 05:32 PM
Holding out for more money.....well I can see why they would say that, but surely the first thing they should do is point out the step down?

Spike Mandela
22-06-2011, 05:34 PM
Vlad will posture now and not accept first offer but will cave in prior to start of season.

As soon as they bought Grainger we all knew Wallace was a goner.

rangers will hold fire and pay around 750k imo.

Mark79
22-06-2011, 06:13 PM
I hope it drags on a while and Wallace invokes the Webster clause.

greenginger
22-06-2011, 06:18 PM
The Mutants over on Kickback are revolting over the offer of £300 K for their £4 million pound man !

Mind you they are revolting anyway. :greengrin

R'Albin
22-06-2011, 06:18 PM
I hope it drags on a while and Wallace invokes the Webster clause.

Think you need to be 28 or older to infoke that IIRC?

ancient hibee
22-06-2011, 06:23 PM
So it's true Rangers were looking for someone who could shoot(allegedly-or was it proved)

The Falcon
22-06-2011, 06:25 PM
I hope it drags on a while and Wallace invokes the Webster clause.

He only has a year to run. If he was to hang on till January his personal terms could rocket. Rangers are testing the water.

StevieC
22-06-2011, 06:27 PM
I hope it drags on a while and Wallace invokes the Webster clause.

It would need to drag on for 5 years for that to happen.

:wink:

EDIT: Just noticed R_albin beat me to it.

:doh:

Mark79
22-06-2011, 06:28 PM
Think you need to be 28 or older to infoke that IIRC?

Surely webster was younger than 28 when he kicked it all off? His case was a good few years back. He isn't that old now is he?

Part/Time Supporter
22-06-2011, 06:29 PM
Think you need to be 28 or older to infoke that IIRC?

Younger players can use it but they have to serve an extra year of their contract.

HibbyDave
22-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Regardless of the fact it's funny that Hertz are losing one of their best players.. Once again the infirm rape clubs who genuinely may trouble them in the upcoming season. Hertz have strengthened with the addition of Taoul etc and this tactic of grabbing players from their rivals is what makes Scottish football a joke (sick one).

R'Albin
22-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Younger players can use it but they have to serve an extra year of their contract.

Oh... It's a ****ing stupid rule though, more player power.

StevieC
22-06-2011, 06:35 PM
Younger players can use it but they have to serve an extra year of their contract.

Is it not something like 24-28 they have to serve 3 years of any contract and 28+ they can walk after 2 years. Under 24 they can't walk and teams will also be due compensation if they leave at the end of a contract (assuming you've offered them a new one before their current one lapsed).

It's changed so many times though it's hard to keep up.

:confused:

Hibeesb0unc3
22-06-2011, 06:35 PM
why would he leave a team constantly winning league titles and european cups to go to a team who struggle to make it past the group stages of european competitions :wink:

In all honesty i think he will leave for around £1 million as he is a decent player but is yet to prove himself at a higher level than a 3rd placed team in scotland. But i would rather see him give it a stab down south as the quality is better benefiting the national team and not improving the gap between the OF and the rest

R'Albin
22-06-2011, 06:38 PM
It would need to drag on for 5 years for that to happen.

:wink:

EDIT: Just noticed R_albin beat me to it.

:doh:

:na na: Although, we were wrong anyway!

StevieC
22-06-2011, 06:47 PM
:na na: Although, we were wrong anyway!

Aye, but lets not admit it because it's so confusing we might get away with it. :wink:

Just done a quick search and realised that it's not simply a case of walking away but buying out the remaining term of your contract.

:hmmm:

R'Albin
22-06-2011, 06:54 PM
Aye, but lets not admit it because it's so confusing we might get away with it. :wink:

Just done a quick search and realised that it's not simply a case of walking away but buying out the remaining term of your contract.

:hmmm:

:wink: Suppose we were right to an extent...

Could the buying club buy out the players contract?

The Falcon
22-06-2011, 06:57 PM
:wink: Suppose we were right to an extent...

Could the buying club buy out the players contract?

I would think that might be otherwise known as a "signing on fee" in this case.

ScottB
22-06-2011, 07:19 PM
Regardless of the fact it's funny that Hertz are losing one of their best players.. Once again the infirm rape clubs who genuinely may trouble them in the upcoming season. Hertz have strengthened with the addition of Taoul etc and this tactic of grabbing players from their rivals is what makes Scottish football a joke (sick one).

Not really, Hearts have to sell to pay for the players they've brought in already. Man + dog knew he'd be off this summer.

allezsauzee
22-06-2011, 07:22 PM
Maybe we should make a cheeky wee bid? sign him for £700k and offer him a 3 year deal on a decent wage with a % of any transfer fee that we receive with a clause to sell once he's a year into the contract should we get a bid of £2m or more. If we sell him to an English club in a years time. Hibs and Wallace make money, we'll have a quality defender for at least a season and most importantly we get to pish our pants laughing at the big team selling their best player to the wee team.:greengrin

Bostonhibby
22-06-2011, 07:51 PM
Holding out for more money.....well I can see why they would say that, but surely the first thing they should do is point out the step down?

:greengrin at the same time as the strapped Hun hold out to pay less money. Wonder who will win this one if no other bidders are manufactured? a wee cheeky £51m bid from FC Kaunus maybe?

.Sean.
22-06-2011, 07:52 PM
I'm unsure as to whether this tells me how over-rated Wallace is or how skint Rangers really are?

DC_Hibs
22-06-2011, 07:58 PM
I opened the link expecting to see a big bid going in, not having realised he only has a year left on his contract.
Those injuries came at the right time then as they should have pocketed a much better fee than they will get for him.

They will be losing a quality player (replaced by Grainger too!!) and still be saddled with that ridiculous debt.

They should be watching how the wee team do it.

H18sry
22-06-2011, 07:59 PM
Regardless of the fact it's funny that Hertz are losing one of their best players.. Once again the infirm rape clubs who genuinely may trouble them in the upcoming season. Hertz have strengthened with the addition of Taoul etc and this tactic of grabbing players from their rivals is what makes Scottish football a joke (sick one).

What difference does it make Rankers signing players for Hertz, or Hertz signing players from other SPL clubs? Both teams are making other SPL team's weaker, its just they way the football pyramid works.:wink:

Sergey
22-06-2011, 08:08 PM
My sides still hurt from the hilarity that was induced when they turned down a £3.5m bid from Burnley for Andy Driver. IIRC - It was Lazlo (or was it Fail?) that said he could turn him into a £10m player. Aye, that was dependant on there being a lucrative market for prosthetic knees!

Fear not you viewing Yams. Vlad has categorically stated that he's not in the business of selling player to the OF :aok:

R'Albin
22-06-2011, 08:13 PM
My sides still hurt from the hilarity that was induced when they turned down a £3.5m bid from Burnley for Andy Driver. IIRC - It was Lazlo (or was it Fail?) that said he could turn him into a £10m player. Aye, that was dependant on there being a lucrative market for prosthetic knees!

Fear not you viewing Yams. Vlad has categorically stated that he's not in the business of selling player to the OF :aok:

Thanks for reminding me of that:faf: what a shrewd piece of business that was !:faf:

Bostonhibby
22-06-2011, 08:29 PM
My sides still hurt from the hilarity that was induced when they turned down a £3.5m bid from Burnley for Andy Driver. IIRC - It was Lazlo (or was it Fail?) that said he could turn him into a £10m player. Aye, that was dependant on there being a lucrative market for prosthetic knees!

Fear not you viewing Yams. Vlad has categorically stated that he's not in the business of selling player to the OF :aok:

:greengrin Probably better to hang onto Driver until things pick up after the worldwide recession is over then sell him to a Greek team for tens of millions rather than the crap money Burnley were offering, its what big teams do - You need a long term plan.

Pedantic_Hibee
22-06-2011, 08:29 PM
Did they not want £6 million for Laryea Kingston? How's that working out for them these days?

If this is the market they live in, I wonder if they could punt my left testicle to an interested bidder for a fee in excess of £12.5 million?

Bostonhibby
22-06-2011, 08:38 PM
Did they not want £6 million for Laryea Kingston? How's that working out for them these days?

If this is the market they live in, I wonder if they could punt my left testicle to an interested bidder for a fee in excess of £12.5 million?

Wasn't he the guy they swapped for the lightbulb that caused all the excitement?

Sergey
22-06-2011, 08:41 PM
Lest we forget the Velica transfer?

The Yams 'sold' him for £350k to some Scandinavian team....only for the money to go FBK Kaunas as he was still on their books and was 'on loan' at the PBS, only for him to sign for Rangers a couple of months later for upwards of £1m.

Oh, *****,,,,now I've got the hiccups:greengrin

steviehibsleith
22-06-2011, 08:42 PM
Dont forget Templeton when he hit a little form and they said he was th best winger in Scotland and going to be worth £10 million !!

Springbank
23-06-2011, 06:53 AM
I just asked an innocent question of Hearts' two fullbacks, and got totally puzzling answers. I asked them "hi boys, what's in your magazine today?"

Thomson said "don't ask"

Wallace said "just blanks,mate"

cocopops1875
23-06-2011, 07:48 AM
One of my yam mates is going daft about this offer reckons he is 2.5 million worth aye lie Doon son he has no kicked a baw in a year. That said one of the few yams I grudgingly admit to being a decent player

bruno
23-06-2011, 08:02 AM
One of my yam mates is going daft about this offer reckons he is 2.5 million worth aye lie Doon son he has no kicked a baw in a year. That said one of the few yams I grudgingly admit to being a decent player
I don't think any genuine Hearts fan would expect 2.5 million for a player in the last year of his contract.

What is more irritating is that Rangers described as a derisory offer of £700k for their international full back from Buraspor but then proceeded to bid 300k for another teams international full back with a year left.

Wallace has his price and I think he is worth between £700k-£1 million.

He is a very good player and also one of the fittest players I have seen in my time of watching Hearts and I think these fitness levels have helped him come back from quite a serious injury quickly.

The price will be decided by supply and demand if an English lower EPL club or a Champinship club want him Rangers will not be able to compete. If Rangers are the only serious bidders we might only get half a million. While we seriously need the money Vlad is stubborn and would rather have the player for another year than sell him on the cheap. Sometimes this stubborness works with players like Gordon sometimes doomed to failure like Driver

I don't care about the difference in the transfer money as it will only make a small dent in our overall debt but I really wish he would test himself down south if he has that option.

1875er
23-06-2011, 08:08 AM
I just asked an innocent question of Hearts' two fullbacks, and got totally puzzling answers. I asked them "hi boys, what's in your magazine today?"

Thomson said "don't ask"

Wallace said "just blanks,mate"

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

R'Albin
23-06-2011, 08:10 AM
I don't think any genuine Hearts fan would expect 2.5 million for a player in the last year of his contract.

What is more irritating is that Rangers described as a derisory offer of £700k for their international full back from Buraspor but then proceeded to bid 300k for another teams international full back with a year left.

Wallace has his price and I think he is worth between £700k-£1 million.

He is a very good player and also one of the fittest players I have seen in my time of watching Hearts and I think these fitness levels have helped him come back from quite a serious injury quickly.

The price will be decided by supply and demand if an English lower EPL club or a Champinship club want him Rangers will not be able to compete. If Rangers are the only serious bidders we might only get half a million. While we seriously need the money Vlad is stubborn and would rather have the player for another year than sell him on the cheap. Sometimes this stubborness works with players like Gordon sometimes doomed to failure like Driver

I don't care about the difference in the transfer money as it will only make a small dent in our overall debt but I really wish he would test himself down south if he has that option.

And you all call us gay :greengrin

Camo
23-06-2011, 08:15 AM
After rejecting 700k for Whittaker, and bidding 300k for Wallace they can take their 300k and shove it up their erchies.

Whilst he is coming into the last year of his deal, his market value is still between 700k to 1 million. Scraping the barrel again, Don't believe the Huns have as much clout as the followers are lead to believe.

I hate the Old Firm.

Judas Iscariot
23-06-2011, 08:19 AM
After rejecting 700k for Whittaker, and bidding 300k for Wallace they can take their 300k and shove it up their erchies.

Whilst he is coming into the last year of his deal, his market value is still between 700k to 1 million. Scraping the barrel again, Don't believe the Huns have as much clout as the followers are lead to believe.

I hate the Old Firm.

Is it really?


:smokin

Camo
23-06-2011, 08:21 AM
Is it really?


:smokin

If he played for hibs you'd be in agreement.

northgreen24
23-06-2011, 08:29 AM
After rejecting 700k for Whittaker, and bidding 300k for Wallace they can take their 300k and shove it up their erchies.

Whilst he is coming into the last year of his deal, his market value is still between 700k to 1 million. Scraping the barrel again, Don't believe the Huns have as much clout as the followers are lead to believe.

I hate the Old Firm.

I actually agree for once with the jambo poster. Rangers think ther is one rule for them and one for everone else. we did manage to get top doller for our players but they did try initally (remember the 1 million offered for scott brown)

the one problem with wallace is that he only has 12 months to go, just come back from a long term injury (sure he say a 3 million pound striker in the treament room lol)and looks to me like the allready bought a replacment in granger so not the strongest barganing position :greengrin
mabey they should as rodders for some advice:greengrin

Judas Iscariot
23-06-2011, 08:31 AM
If he played for hibs you'd be in agreement.

If he had actually "played" much for your filthy mob I'd maybe be in agreement but seeing as he's hardly kicked a ball for a season and has had a very serious injury I doubt it..

Plus, us Hibbies aren't deluded joeys like you lot :aok:

Steve20
23-06-2011, 08:35 AM
They should be getting at least 750k for Lee Wallace.

easty
23-06-2011, 08:35 AM
If he played for hibs you'd be in agreement.

I agree with you. He is worth about £750k (becuase he only has 1 year left in his contract) and if Rangers get him for that then it'll be a really good bit of business for them.

Wallace is, a fud but still, a really good player. He's the sort of player who should be looking to move down south to prove himself, he's already shown he's more than capable of playing in the SPL.

Also, he hardly even played for the Yams last season so it's not even as though selling him will weaken them that greatly.

Bostonhibby
23-06-2011, 08:36 AM
If he played for hibs you'd be in agreement.


Nah, Rod would get us £5m easily :greengrin Good player, and Hibby though.

ronaldo7
23-06-2011, 08:40 AM
I'd be looking for half a mill for the laddie. Scotland International full back of the future. Only a year left on his contract so can't get nearer his true value of around 1 million.

Take the money Hertz, as 6 months down the line you'll be slating him for signing a pre-contract with the huns.

Cropley10
23-06-2011, 08:46 AM
If he played for hibs you'd be in agreement.


Nah, Rod would get us £5m easily :greengrin Good player, and Hibby though.

He used to be - according to the player himself... now a Jambo, apparently:shocked:

Camo
23-06-2011, 11:35 AM
If he had actually "played" much for your filthy mob I'd maybe be in agreement but seeing as he's hardly kicked a ball for a season and has had a very serious injury I doubt it..

Plus, us Hibbies aren't deluded joeys like you lot :aok:
Unfortunately this has worked out quite badly for us, I believe he'll come back from the injury fighting fit and ready for the coming season.

A serious injury doesn't make a player bad, neither does wearing a maroon jersey :wink:


I agree with you. He is worth about £750k (becuase he only has 1 year left in his contract) and if Rangers get him for that then it'll be a really good bit of business for them.

Wallace is, a fud but still, a really good player. He's the sort of player who should be looking to move down south to prove himself, he's already shown he's more than capable of playing in the SPL.

Also, he hardly even played for the Yams last season so it's not even as though selling him will weaken them that greatly.
He should be playing down south and shows a complete lack of ambition from his part.

But as he strikes me of the Riordan mould, he'll go for the easy route along the M8, knowing that all his mates are still back here and he'll stand out for the huns over the next few years.

I believe we coped well without him last year, but losing him entirely is a big loss especially when Palazuelos who made LB his own has now left and replaced with someone from St J. We'll see who lines up in a few weeks.

Albion Hibs
23-06-2011, 12:02 PM
The rats over at tinie tinny will be going bananas at this. About 12 months ago they were convinced that they had £10m worth of player between Wallace and Driver. Now they are staring down the barrel of 300k for one of them - magic.

For what it is worth I do not see Hearts selling him, given they do not believe there is such a thing as money/legal tender I am sure they would rather play him for a season and lose him for nothing than take 300-500k.

Out of interest how long does the superstar driver have left on his contract?

Dibben
23-06-2011, 12:11 PM
There will now be a game of poker going on, with how much Rangers want to sign him, up against how desparate Hearts are for ca$h!!

The closer to August 31 this goes, the more desparate both clubs could become - although, Rangers I think, will hold the upper hand.

Lee Wallace is on a decent wage at tynie, so won't be desparate to go - Rangers I doubt would be keen on paying £500k +, for a player they could get on a pre-contract in 6 months!

southern hibby
23-06-2011, 12:12 PM
Did they not want £6 million for Laryea Kingston? How's that working out for them these days?

If this is the market they live in, I wonder if they could punt my left testicle to an interested bidder for a fee in excess of £12.5 million?


Why your left, something wrong with your right?

JimBHibees
23-06-2011, 12:23 PM
I don't think any genuine Hearts fan would expect 2.5 million for a player in the last year of his contract.

What is more irritating is that Rangers described as a derisory offer of £700k for their international full back from Buraspor but then proceeded to bid 300k for another teams international full back with a year left.

Wallace has his price and I think he is worth between £700k-£1 million.

He is a very good player and also one of the fittest players I have seen in my time of watching Hearts and I think these fitness levels have helped him come back from quite a serious injury quickly.

The price will be decided by supply and demand if an English lower EPL club or a Champinship club want him Rangers will not be able to compete. If Rangers are the only serious bidders we might only get half a million. While we seriously need the money Vlad is stubborn and would rather have the player for another year than sell him on the cheap. Sometimes this stubborness works with players like Gordon sometimes doomed to failure like Driver

I don't care about the difference in the transfer money as it will only make a small dent in our overall debt but I really wish he would test himself down south if he has that option.

Is certainly a decent player and strong runner however always thought he looked a bit overweight when he was playing.

Albion Hibs
23-06-2011, 02:59 PM
After rejecting 700k for Whittaker, and bidding 300k for Wallace they can take their 300k and shove it up their erchies.

Whilst he is coming into the last year of his deal, his market value is still between 700k to 1 million. Scraping the barrel again, Don't believe the Huns have as much clout as the followers are lead to believe.

I hate the Old Firm.

You must still be reeking from the Take That concert!

Whittaker is twice the player that Wallace is. He contributes far more to any game he plays in, on the pitch he has won stuff with Hibs and been instrumental in Rangers winning leagues and cups, furthermore he has significantly more European club football experience and Scotland international.

The difference in value is surely reflective of the players wage considering the club is likely to have to pay up the player if they decide to sell him.

If Whittaker was to go for £700k then I think £300k is a good price for Wallace.

Dr Jimmy
23-06-2011, 03:15 PM
If he played for hibs you'd be in agreement.

If he played for Hibs I would care about whether he stayed or went, but he plays for you lot, therefore I couldn't give a flying ****. :bye:

bruno
23-06-2011, 03:21 PM
You must still be reeking from the Take That concert!

Whittaker is twice the player that Wallace is. He contributes far more to any game he plays in, on the pitch he has won stuff with Hibs and been instrumental in Rangers winning leagues and cups, furthermore he has significantly more European club football experience and Scotland international.

The difference in value is surely reflective of the players wage considering the club is likely to have to pay up the player if they decide to sell him.

If Whittaker was to go for £700k then I think £300k is a good price for Wallace.

Yes he has won more with Rangers but so has Kirk Broadfoot.

Wallace will improve he is still young is good going forward and is left footed. How many times have we seen club and country persist with right footed players at left back.

I think taking these into consideration that Wallace is worth just as much as Whittaker although Whittaker takes a mean penalty.

J-C
23-06-2011, 03:22 PM
Is it really?


:smokin


TBH if Wallace was at ER, we'd be shouting blue murder if the board accepted 300k for him, he's worth at least 600-900k at least.

Albion Hibs
23-06-2011, 03:44 PM
Yes he has won more with Rangers but so has Kirk Broadfoot.

Wallace will improve he is still young is good going forward and is left footed. How many times have we seen club and country persist with right footed players at left back.

I think taking these into consideration that Wallace is worth just as much as Whittaker although Whittaker takes a mean penalty.

Whittaker has won just as many medals with Hibs as Wallace has with hearts has he not. Regardless he was a significant part of what Rangers achieved, did he not get into double figures on the goals front last season?

The arguement of he plays with his left foot and is young does little to substantiate your claims of value.

Albion Hibs
23-06-2011, 03:49 PM
TBH if Wallace was at ER, we'd be shouting blue murder if the board accepted 300k for him, he's worth at least 600-900k at least.

I dont know about that, we took 200k for Bamba. I think the main issue for the hertz is probably the fact they will be left a little embarrassed that there £5m asset would have actually been given a true value i.e. what he is worth when someone is paying for him, in addition to having their pockets picked by their big brothers.

I am sure all fans have an over inflated value of their own players, it just so happens hertz are worse, and Vlad takes advatage of them being so stupid and fills there heads with chat of the champions league and multi million pound players.

bruno
23-06-2011, 03:52 PM
Whittaker has won just as many medals with Hibs as Wallace has with hearts has he not. Regardless he was a significant part of what Rangers achieved, did he not get into double figures on the goals front last season?

The arguement of he plays with his left foot and is young does little to substantiate your claims of value.


Yes Whittaker scored 4 league goals 8 in total not sure how many were penalties though.

Left footed players do incur a premiuim in my view as there are fewer about.

Doesn't mean he's better just more comfortable in that position.

Anyway what I think the fee should be is irrelevant it is what the market dictates.

It's all about opinions and you can't say I am wrong or you are right just as I can't say same to you. The proof will be in the final fees paid.

I remember I was villified on here when I suggested Gordon would go for more than Fletcher. Subsequently proved that Wolves got a better deal than Sunderland but again supply and demand and desparation of club chairman come into it.

I personally would pay just as much for Wallace as I would for Whittaker but that's a personal opinion based on what I have seen.

I'm sure Wallace would win just as many medals at Rangers as Whittaker did if he had the same players around him playing against the same dross in the SPL we have to watch

HibbyAndy
23-06-2011, 04:02 PM
Id give Hearts **** all for Wallace as they are vile hun wannabee erseholes.

And for the record Whittaker is miles better than Wallace.

bruno
23-06-2011, 04:10 PM
Id give Hearts **** all for Wallace as they are vile hun wannabee erseholes.

And for the record Whittaker is miles better than Wallace.

I remeber at the end of Damned United Clough turned to Revie and said something along the lines of see where we are in 5 years.

In my opinion Wallace will be a regular for Scotland and playing in the EPL where Whittaker will have failed in Turkey and be back playing for Hibs.

This will prove your point correct and I will be wrong about where the players careers have panned out and Whittaker will have reached the summit :wink:

Albion Hibs
23-06-2011, 04:15 PM
Yes Whittaker scored 4 league goals 8 in total not sure how many were penalties though.

Left footed players do incur a premiuim in my view as there are fewer about.

Doesn't mean he's better just more comfortable in that position.

Anyway what I think the fee should be is irrelevant it is what the market dictates.

It's all about opinions and you can't say I am wrong or you are right just as I can't say same to you. The proof will be in the final fees paid.

I remember I was villified on here when I suggested Gordon would go for more than Fletcher. Subsequently proved that Wolves got a better deal than Sunderland but again supply and demand and desparation of club chairman come into it.

I personally would pay just as much for Wallace as I would for Whittaker but that's a personal opinion based on what I have seen.

I'm sure Wallace would win just as many medals at Rangers as Whittaker did if he had the same players around him playing against the same dross in the SPL we have to watch

As you say it is all about opinions, speculations and I bet he would haves.

However, I am sure if clubs needed a left and right back they would be looking thinking - fantastic this guy Whittaker has experience winning things with more than one team, he is an influential players, scores goals, and has played in the champions league against quality opposition / UEFA cup. I dont think they would look at Wallace and go - magic lads crack out the cheque book for the same amount, this kid is young and he is a left back that can play football with his left foot!

hibs0666
23-06-2011, 04:45 PM
I personally would pay just as much for Wallace as I would for Whittaker but that's a personal opinion based on what I have seen.

I'm sure Wallace would win just as many medals at Rangers as Whittaker did if he had the same players around him playing against the same dross in the SPL we have to watch

Whittaker averages 39 games a season while Wallace manages around 22.

That's why Whittaker is a more reliable purchase, and will therefore achieve more in his career, than the the glass-legged gunslinger.

J-C
24-06-2011, 07:10 AM
Whittaker averages 39 games a season while Wallace manages around 22.

That's why Whittaker is a more reliable purchase, and will therefore achieve more in his career, than the the glass-legged gunslinger.


That's the same glass legged gunslinger who almost had his career threatened by a horrendous tackle while playing for Scotland, shame on him.

YehButNoBut
24-06-2011, 10:37 AM
Hearts are set to offer Wallace a new deal, hoping to get more cash in the future obviously, similar to Gordon.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/hearts/259981-hearts-set-to-offer-new-deal-to-wallace/

Mikey
24-06-2011, 10:40 AM
Hearts are set to offer Wallace a new deal, hoping to get more cash in the future obviously, similar to Gordon.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/hearts/259981-hearts-set-to-offer-new-deal-to-wallace/

And if he doesn't sign it he doesn't play next season.

hibs0666
24-06-2011, 11:13 AM
That's the same glass legged gunslinger who almost had his career threatened by a horrendous tackle while playing for Scotland, shame on him.

Trigger has only managed to play more than 23 games in a season twice in his 7 seasons as a first team player. Whittaker played more times for Hibs in his five years spell than glass legs has managed in his entire career.

Wallace is an old-style fullback that defends well but offers little offensively. In his 160 games he has managed to score 4 times meaning yow will get a goal from him about once every 40 games. . Just to compare, Whittaker scores one in every 7.

Wallace is not in the same league as Whittaker.

J-C
24-06-2011, 11:17 AM
Trigger has only managed to play more than 23 games in a season twice in his 7 seasons as a first team player. Whittaker played more times for Hibs in his five years spell than glass legs has managed in his entire career.

Wallace is an old-style fullback that defends well but offers little offensively. In his 160 games he has managed to score 4 times meaning yow will get a goal from him about once every 40 games. . Just to compare, Whittaker scores one in every 7.

Wallace is not in the same league as Whittaker.

I never said he was but a good decent left back are few and far between nowadays, I don't think asking £750k is too much, would yo be happy if Hibs let Hanlon go for £330k, when you know he's worth at least £750k?

Danny_Hibee
24-06-2011, 11:49 AM
Trigger has only managed to play more than 23 games in a season twice in his 7 seasons as a first team player. Whittaker played more times for Hibs in his five years spell than glass legs has managed in his entire career.

Wallace is an old-style fullback that defends well but offers little offensively. In his 160 games he has managed to score 4 times meaning yow will get a goal from him about once every 40 games. . Just to compare, Whittaker scores one in every 7.

Wallace is not in the same league as Whittaker.

not sure which wallace you have been watching. his attacking is the strongest part of his game

hibs0666
24-06-2011, 11:52 AM
I never said he was but a good decent left back are few and far between nowadays, I don't think asking £750k is too much, would yo be happy if Hibs let Hanlon go for £330k, when you know he's worth at least £750k?

The yams will only get what someone is willing to offer. Wallace has only a year left on his contract and misses lots of games. On that basis he's not worth much.

The yams can gamble and pay Wallace a big wedge to get him onto the sort of dough he could possibly get in Glasgow. However, a continued record of missed games makes that investment risky. They have been burned with this already - that blobby winger Driver has got a season ticket at Murrayfield Hospital.

bruno
24-06-2011, 12:03 PM
Trigger has only managed to play more than 23 games in a season twice in his 7 seasons as a first team player. Whittaker played more times for Hibs in his five years spell than glass legs has managed in his entire career.

Wallace is an old-style fullback that defends well but offers little offensively. In his 160 games he has managed to score 4 times meaning yow will get a goal from him about once every 40 games. . Just to compare, Whittaker scores one in every 7.

Wallace is not in the same league as Whittaker.

Don't think that's a realistic time he's been a first team player taking him right back to when he was 16. not many players play reguarly and consistently at that age.

Last season he took a bad injury playing for Scotland the previous 2 seasons he missed one league game in 2009 and 2 in 2010 not really glass leggd!!!!!!!

Yes Whittaker scores more for Rangers he has been played further forward too, plays in a better team and takes the penalties.

Statistics can be twisted anyway we want to suit our agenda but I still think Wallace is worth as much as Whittaker.

Any club that buys Wallace will have a 27 year old reaching prime in 4 years Whittaker will be 31-32 not sure.

So both sides can put forward arguments , and I disagree that Wallace offers nothing going forward he is comfortable going forward with an engine that allows him to get back quickly too.

However I will have to disagree that he is injury prone:wink:

hibs0666
24-06-2011, 12:48 PM
Don't think that's a realistic time he's been a first team player taking him right back to when he was 16. not many players play reguarly and consistently at that age.

Last season he took a bad injury playing for Scotland the previous 2 seasons he missed one league game in 2009 and 2 in 2010 not really glass leggd!!!!!!!

Yes Whittaker scores more for Rangers he has been played further forward too, plays in a better team and takes the penalties.

Statistics can be twisted anyway we want to suit our agenda but I still think Wallace is worth as much as Whittaker.

Any club that buys Wallace will have a 27 year old reaching prime in 4 years Whittaker will be 31-32 not sure.

So both sides can put forward arguments , and I disagree that Wallace offers nothing going forward he is comfortable going forward with an engine that allows him to get back quickly too.

However I will have to disagree that he is injury prone:wink:

OK then I'll take out the first two years of Trigger's career (26 games) and consider him from 19 onwards as you would expect a quality young player to be getting a game by then. We'll do the same with Whittaker.

Taking those couple of seasons out Wallace averages around 26 games a season over the 5 years of his career. A bit better clearly but hardly the stuff of legend.

Treating Whittaker the same way really shows the difference between these two guys - Whittaker averages an unbelievable 43 games a season. Whittaker is unbreakable, scores goals and continues to be first on the team sheet in a much better squad than the yams.

I'll say again, Whittaker is the better and more reliable player. Whittaker was worth £2 million as a 23 year old. Even with a contract in place glass legs would not fetch that amount of money in the transfer market.

Albion Hibs
24-06-2011, 02:32 PM
OK then I'll take out the first two years of Trigger's career (26 games) and consider him from 19 onwards as you would expect a quality young player to be getting a game by then. We'll do the same with Whittaker.

Taking those couple of seasons out Wallace averages around 26 games a season over the 5 years of his career. A bit better clearly but hardly the stuff of legend.

Treating Whittaker the same way really shows the difference between these two guys - Whittaker averages an unbelievable 43 games a season. Whittaker is unbreakable, scores goals and continues to be first on the team sheet in a much better squad than the yams.

I'll say again, Whittaker is the better and more reliable player. Whittaker was worth £2 million as a 23 year old. Even with a contract in place glass legs would not fetch that amount of money in the transfer market.

There is no reasoning with this guy mate, Vlad has brain washed him to a level I have never seen before! The backbone of his arguement is he plays with his left foot (which according to him makes the boy a hens tooth) and he is young.

Can you imagine how injury prone the boy will be as he gets older!

There is not danger he is half the player whittaker is. Mad Vlad may not sell him, but I can see him stringing out this year and then leaving for nowt - quite a drop in price from the £5m they would have you believe he is worth!!

Kevvy1875
24-06-2011, 03:03 PM
Wallace is a fine player and as comfortable on the ball as any player in scottish football IMO. That's his asset. A FB for me should be rampaging up and down the flank and that's not Wallace's game IMO. I actually think the Yams are playing him in the wrong position. Should be in the midfield. Remember seeing him as Scotland one shining light in a poor U19s world cup campaign a few years back.....played in midfield and was a stand out.


With regards to his value in the market I would say with the uncertainty over his long term prospects due to the serious nature of his recent injury then 300K is as much as they could hope for. That will be 150K come January if they don't sell now.

Good player but not a patch on Whitty especially in the FB position. Whittakerr will go on mazy runs and glide past players opening teams up in a fashion that Lee Wallace will never be able to do. IMO of course.

bruno
24-06-2011, 03:33 PM
OK then I'll take out the first two years of Trigger's career (26 games) and consider him from 19 onwards as you would expect a quality young player to be getting a game by then. We'll do the same with Whittaker.

Taking those couple of seasons out Wallace averages around 26 games a season over the 5 years of his career. A bit better clearly but hardly the stuff of legend.

Treating Whittaker the same way really shows the difference between these two guys - Whittaker averages an unbelievable 43 games a season. Whittaker is unbreakable, scores goals and continues to be first on the team sheet in a much better squad than the yams.

I'll say again, Whittaker is the better and more reliable player. Whittaker was worth £2 million as a 23 year old. Even with a contract in place glass legs would not fetch that amount of money in the transfer market.

Who called him a legend...... Just you I guess certainly not me.

Talking about a player under a million value remember same as Whittaker.

5 goals in 5 years for Hibs I guess that should equate to Wallace time at Hearts making direct comparisons.

This is just getting tit for tat though so pretty pointless.

In my opinion both quality players. Whittaker has undoubtedly achieved more but is older. If Wallace was to play for a successfull team such as Rangers for 4 years I would expect the same. Time will tell I guess.

By all means make comparisons but no point putting words into an argument to try and give it more credence

bruno
24-06-2011, 03:38 PM
There is no reasoning with this guy mate, Vlad has brain washed him to a level I have never seen before! The backbone of his arguement is he plays with his left foot (which according to him makes the boy a hens tooth) and he is young.

Can you imagine how injury prone the boy will be as he gets older!

There is not danger he is half the player whittaker is. Mad Vlad may not sell him, but I can see him stringing out this year and then leaving for nowt - quite a drop in price from the £5m they would have you believe he is worth!!

Cheers for your reasoned argument.

My basis is not purely based on fact he has a left foot.

Maybe I haven't put my argument over as eloquently as you I guess. I bow to your superior knowledge information and clearly superior grasp of the English language and competence in debating:not worth

My basis has been watching him perform consistently well over a period of years excelling at left back, centre half and in midfield.

He's been a joy to watch and shame he had a bad injury last season guess that makes him have glass legs in your opinion though forgetting previous 2 years near perfect playing record

The_Todd
24-06-2011, 04:40 PM
In fairness to the Yams, this is the typical bully boy bidding antics from the OF we all hate, and they'll always get their way.

Albion Hibs
24-06-2011, 06:14 PM
:devil:
Cheers for your reasoned argument.

My basis is not purely based on fact he has a left foot.

Maybe I haven't put my argument over as eloquently as you I guess. I bow to your superior knowledge information and clearly superior grasp of the English language and competence in debating:not worth

My basis has been watching him perform consistently well over a period of years excelling at left back, centre half and in midfield.

He's been a joy to watch and shame he had a bad injury last season guess that makes him have glass legs in your opinion though forgetting previous 2 years near perfect playing record

Lets not start with this nonsense.

Did you enjoy drolling over him as much as your other full back.

It has nothing to do with how points are put accross, I do not believe anyone could or would argue that Whittaker and Wallace have the same value, Whittaker is a far more valuable player.

In any event it seems like mad Vlad is off on one and you are keeping on your convicted sex offender, so there is perhaps more to worry about at tinnie tiny than what Wallace may or may not be worth.

bruno
29-06-2011, 06:22 PM
:devil:

Lets not start with this nonsense.

Did you enjoy drolling over him as much as your other full back.

It has nothing to do with how points are put accross, I do not believe anyone could or would argue that Whittaker and Wallace have the same value, Whittaker is a far more valuable player.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/default.stm

Seems that Rangers value Wallace more than the initial ridiculously low offer put in to unsettle the player.

As I said I thought his value was between 700k and 1 million so if this is a genuine offer I think Hearts will take it

Springbank
29-06-2011, 06:33 PM
I think Hearts got lucky here.

No way would Rangers have felt the need to shell out beyond £600k if they'd already paraded Conway, Goodwillie and Danns.

They ought to be truly embarrassed over in Govan at losing out on those three. To lose out on Wallace for a few pennies would not have helped the new owner much.

Lucky Hearts being in the right place at the right time, making (in my estimation) around £350,000 more than they would have got if the Huns weren't desperate for an ego massage after a run of bad stories

bruno
29-06-2011, 07:10 PM
I think Hearts got lucky here.

No way would Rangers have felt the need to shell out beyond £600k if they'd already paraded Conway, Goodwillie and Danns.

They ought to be truly embarrassed over in Govan at losing out on those three. To lose out on Wallace for a few pennies would not have helped the new owner much.

Lucky Hearts being in the right place at the right time, making (in my estimation) around £350,000 more than they would have got if the Huns weren't desperate for an ego massage after a run of bad stories

Rangers will not pay over the odds for any player

They simply cannot afford it so Hearts did not get lucky.

Anyway they have apparently rejected the bid but the speed of bids and refusals is hotting up so I would expect some movement shortly.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/260625-hearts-reject-improved-lee-wallace-bid/

Can Rangers afford to go higher or will the be happy telling their waiting hordes that they tried but would not be held to ransom when in reality they may not have the cash

DaveF
29-06-2011, 07:31 PM
I think Hearts got lucky here.

No way would Rangers have felt the need to shell out beyond £600k if they'd already paraded Conway, Goodwillie and Danns.

They ought to be truly embarrassed over in Govan at losing out on those three. To lose out on Wallace for a few pennies would not have helped the new owner much.

Lucky Hearts being in the right place at the right time, making (in my estimation) around £350,000 more than they would have got if the Huns weren't desperate for an ego massage after a run of bad stories

That help cover lost sponsorship, sex case legal fees and SFA fines :greengrin

degenerated
29-06-2011, 07:33 PM
That help cover lost sponsorship, sex case legal fees and SFA fines :greengrin

they'll be able to afford to buy their own bottled water now the tap has been turned off on the free stuff from macb

Pedantic_Hibee
29-06-2011, 07:37 PM
Hearts don't sell to the Old Firm. Close the thread.

Unless.................Vlad wouldn't lie to them would he? :confused:

Albion Hibs
29-06-2011, 08:06 PM
Who called him a legend...... Just you I guess certainly not me.

Talking about a player under a million value remember same as Whittaker.

5 goals in 5 years for Hibs I guess that should equate to Wallace time at Hearts making direct comparisons.

This is just getting tit for tat though so pretty pointless.

In my opinion both quality players. Whittaker has undoubtedly achieved more but is older. If Wallace was to play for a successfull team such as Rangers for 4 years I would expect the same. Time will tell I guess.

By all means make comparisons but no point putting words into an argument to try and give it more credence


I believe the back bone of our discussion was that Whittaker was a better player and worth more? It would seem like hertz have just accepted a price for Whittaker that Rangers turned down for their own player, alas it would seem like Whittaker is worth more, thank you.

Seems like big mind changes over at tiny tinnie.....selling to the old firm I mean, thought that was a big no no, are they not mafia after all!!

Still nice to be able to debate football for a change.

bruno
29-06-2011, 08:21 PM
I believe the back bone of our discussion was that Whittaker was a better player and worth more? It would seem like hertz have just accepted a price for Whittaker that Rangers turned down for their own player, alas it would seem like Whittaker is worth more, thank you.

Seems like big mind changes over at tiny tinnie.....selling to the old firm I mean, thought that was a big no no, are they not mafia after all!!

Still nice to be able to debate football for a change.

Think you need to re read your post it doesn't make much sense.

Hearts have always sold to the old firm Hartley,Johnston etc. Anyway how do you know they are the mafia:wink: the mafia could be anyone from Vlads rants

It seems Wallace bid has been rejected not accepted as you say so time will tell if he goes for same as Whittaker to which I alluded or Whittaker goes for more as you suggested.

Still doesn't make one better than other it's just a market place after all

Albion Hibs
29-06-2011, 08:26 PM
Think you need to re read your post it doesn't make much sense.

Hearts have always sold to the old firm Hartley,Johnston etc. Anyway how do you know they are the mafia:wink: the mafia could be anyone from Vlads rants

It seems Wallace bid has been rejected not accepted as you say so time will tell if he goes for same as Whittaker to which I alluded or Whittaker goes for more as you suggested.

Still doesn't make one better than other it's just a market place after all


Right.....okay lets just leave it at that! Your initial post was I knew he was worth more...yet value is not a reflection of worth!! I think you have been laughed out of town in respect of the Whittaker Vs the Guy that can play with his left foot.

But given your all over the place response, and jovial reference to the mafia, just be honest.....are you Vlad's speach writter?

bruno
29-06-2011, 08:53 PM
Right.....okay lets just leave it at that! Your initial post was I knew he was worth more...yet value is not a reflection of worth!! I think you have been laughed out of town in respect of the Whittaker Vs the Guy that can play with his left foot. <br />
<br />
But given your all over the place response, and jovial reference to the mafia, just be honest.....are you Vlad's speach writter?<br />
<br />
Fair enough we can leave it till both sold see who was right. However you brought up the mafia and i made light of it because it.s embarrassing but that's another story. Don't think everyone's laughing at me for my stance or my belief in the relevant values. Perhaps they.re laughing at my club. Anyway both good players who could both be scotland's full backs for years to come whoever they play for.

Albion Hibs
29-06-2011, 09:03 PM
<br />
<br />
Fair enough we can leave it till both sold see who was right. However you brought up the mafia and i made light of it because it.s embarrassing but that's another story. Don't think everyone's laughing at me for my stance or my belief in the relevant values. Perhaps they.re laughing at my club. Anyway both good players who could both be scotland's full backs for years to come whoever they play for.

I think you can take that as a given.

PS its Vlads club.

YehButNoBut
30-06-2011, 08:09 AM
Vlad now asking for £3 million for Wallace

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2011/06/30/rangers-ditch-plan-to-sign-lee-wallace-as-hearts-reject-1m-bid-and-demand-3m-for-scotland-defender-86908-23236893/

RANGERS are set to pull the plug on their attempts to sign Lee Wallace after Hearts kicked out a second Ibrox bid yesterday - then slapped a £3million price tag on the full-back's head.

R'Albin
30-06-2011, 08:28 AM
Vlad now asking for £3 million for Wallace

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2011/06/30/rangers-ditch-plan-to-sign-lee-wallace-as-hearts-reject-1m-bid-and-demand-3m-for-scotland-defender-86908-23236893/

RANGERS are set to pull the plug on their attempts to sign Lee Wallace after Hearts kicked out a second Ibrox bid yesterday - then slapped a £3million price tag on the full-back's head.

How stupid, now they will get nothing from him:confused:

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 08:32 AM
Classic, only a club with £35m debt and a tiny revenue in comparison would turn their nose up at £1m and lose the guy at the end of the season for nothing - brilliant. All we need to go with this is a Vlad rant!

son of haggart
30-06-2011, 08:41 AM
Classic, only a club with £35m debt and a tiny revenue in comparison would turn their nose up at £1m and lose the guy at the end of the season for nothing - brilliant. All we need to go with this is a Vlad rant!

delighted about this mysefl. Rangers offer was nto a million, and was in instalments (ie may never get it). Also follows their derisory £300K which chows the contempt they hold non-OF teams in.

I'd rather have him playing for a year for us than sign for those creeps, and hear Vlad rant abou tthis ratehr than the Thomson business

Part/Time Supporter
30-06-2011, 08:50 AM
delighted about this mysefl. Rangers offer was nto a million, and was in instalments (ie may never get it). Also follows their derisory £300K which chows the contempt they hold non-OF teams in.

I'd rather have him playing for a year for us than sign for those creeps, and hear Vlad rant abou tthis ratehr than the Thomson business

More like he'll play for a month or so, get injured for a bit and then sign for them on a pre-contract deal on Hogmanay.

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 09:01 AM
delighted about this mysefl. Rangers offer was nto a million, and was in instalments (ie may never get it). Also follows their derisory £300K which chows the contempt they hold non-OF teams in.

I'd rather have him playing for a year for us than sign for those creeps, and hear Vlad rant abou tthis ratehr than the Thomson business

Nothing quite like cutting off your nose to spite your face!

Whilst you may say that you would rather have him for another year this is of course one of your much discussed assets, like Driver, who has such a fantastically high value, both of which have probably cost the mythical values in treatment bills, and both possibly destind to depart tiny with not a dime in return.

Spike Mandela
30-06-2011, 09:06 AM
delighted about this mysefl. Rangers offer was nto a million, and was in instalments (ie may never get it). Also follows their derisory £300K which chows the contempt they hold non-OF teams in.

I'd rather have him playing for a year for us than sign for those creeps, and hear Vlad rant abou tthis ratehr than the Thomson business

Never mind you can still sell Driver to Chelsea for £5.5m. Unless the price has went up due to his sterling performances last season:greengrin

HFC 0-7
30-06-2011, 09:20 AM
delighted about this mysefl. Rangers offer was nto a million, and was in instalments (ie may never get it). Also follows their derisory £300K which chows the contempt they hold non-OF teams in.

I'd rather have him playing for a year for us than sign for those creeps, and hear Vlad rant abou tthis ratehr than the Thomson business

Isnt that how Hearts pay for their players and how they pay their other bills?

son of haggart
30-06-2011, 09:38 AM
Nothing quite like cutting off your nose to spite your face!

Whilst you may say that you would rather have him for another year this is of course one of your much discussed assets, like Driver, who has such a fantastically high value, both of which have probably cost the mythical values in treatment bills, and both possibly destind to depart tiny with not a dime in return.

Much discussed by who? VRs position has always been that are players are only available at very high prices, not cut price. If no one will pay the price fine, we will keep them and play them up to the point where they are close to pre-contract when, if they don't accpet a deal they don't play.

It's no tthat dissimilar to Petrie's policy , except the 'no play for last six months bit' and i guess that is because VRs policy is less dependant on securing every last penny and more about hi sview of how deals should be done

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 01:35 PM
Much discussed by who? VRs position has always been that are players are only available at very high prices, not cut price. If no one will pay the price fine, we will keep them and play them up to the point where they are close to pre-contract when, if they don't accpet a deal they don't play.

It's no tthat dissimilar to Petrie's policy , except the 'no play for last six months bit' and i guess that is because VRs policy is less dependant on securing every last penny and more about hi sview of how deals should be done

Quotes in the paper relating to values of your players will not be hard to come by, therefore much discussed/publicised I feel is appropriate.

I think you will find the bit between "very high" aka farcical (hence Driver is still with you) and "cut price" is probably the "market value" or "worth" of a player. If a player is not sold for the Vlad Value then it is a reflection that he was overpriced as the market was not interested in purchasing.

We can all live in dream land, I am sure it is lovely at this time of year.

son of haggart
30-06-2011, 02:52 PM
Quotes in the paper relating to values of your players will not be hard to come by, therefore much discussed/publicised I feel is appropriate.

I think you will find the bit between "very high" aka farcical (hence Driver is still with you) and "cut price" is probably the "market value" or "worth" of a player. If a player is not sold for the Vlad Value then it is a reflection that he was overpriced as the market was not interested in purchasing.

We can all live in dream land, I am sure it is lovely at this time of year.


wouldn't know about dreamlands - I buy and sell things at a maket price. VR started his business life like Alan Sugar as a small time trader where margins meant everything. Sometimes he fails , sometimes he succeeds - Gordon, Hartley and Berra all went for far higher prices than the previous management regime would have achieved, we lost out on guys like Webster and probably driver but hey ho - £12million isn't bad in the last three or four years...

Albion Hibs
30-06-2011, 04:27 PM
wouldn't know about dreamlands - I buy and sell things at a maket price. VR started his business life like Alan Sugar as a small time trader where margins meant everything. Sometimes he fails , sometimes he succeeds - Gordon, Hartley and Berra all went for far higher prices than the previous management regime would have achieved, we lost out on guys like Webster and probably driver but hey ho - £12million isn't bad in the last three or four years...

First bit of bold - exactly thats when a transaction happens, not in dreamland.

Last bold bit - about 1/3 of your debt, so you are right, and just as well!