The sun reports

[IanM]

That Hibs and Crawley Town have tabled bids for Adam Rooney with Birmingham monitoring the situation..

ICT have offered record terms

Dark days if he chooses Crawley Town?
Or resigned to that fact to land wanted players we may in the future need to restructure our wage cap?
Or we need to start winning games this season to make us more attractive?
Or all of the above?

I hope he signs for us, im hopeful also for a bit of transfer activity over the wknd from Hibs..

[Aldo]

That Hibs and Crawley Town have tabled bids for Adam Rooney with Birmingham monitoring the situation..

ICT have offered record terms

Dark days if he chooses Crawley Town?
Or resigned to that fact to land wanted players we may in the future need to restructure our wage cap?
Or we need to start winning games this season to make us more attractive?
Or all of the above?

I hope he signs for us, im hopeful also for a bit of transfer activity over the wknd from Hibs..

Crawley Town have got a big backer at the moment and throwing money about......if its money hes after there is only 1 place he is going and thats CT. Sad but true that an English 4 tier team can pay more than us. Fingers Crossed he signs for us.

Think we all need a wee boost after the silence of last few weeks.

Sorry didnt see the Brum bit..but dont know if he would get a game there TBH

[R'Albin]

That Hibs and Crawley Town have tabled bids for Adam Rooney with Birmingham monitoring the situation..

ICT have offered record terms

Dark days if he chooses Crawley Town?
Or resigned to that fact to land wanted players we may in the future need to restructure our wage cap?
Or we need to start winning games this season to make us more attractive?
Or all of the above?

I hope he signs for us, im hopeful also for a bit of transfer activity over the wknd from Hibs..

If these are all the clubs interested then I'm hopeful, as long as Birmingham stay out the equation.

[CallumLaidlaw]

That Hibs and Crawley Town have tabled bids for Adam Rooney with Birmingham monitoring the situation..

ICT have offered record terms

Dark days if he chooses Crawley Town?
Or resigned to that fact to land wanted players we may in the future need to restructure our wage cap?
Or we need to start winning games this season to make us more attractive?
Or all of the above?

I hope he signs for us, im hopeful also for a bit of transfer activity over the wknd from Hibs..

Crawley have got a fair bit of money behind them to be fair. They Paid cash for Willie Gibson in January from the Pars and apparently gave him a very good wage.

[dirtydirk]

I know a guy who plays for Dunfermline and he told ne when willie Gibson left them for Crawley he was offered 5k a week. Just shows the difference in money between Scotland and England

[steakbake]

I know a guy who plays for Dunfermline and he told ne when willie Gibson left them for Crawley he was offered 5k a week. Just shows the difference in money between Scotland and England

It shows the kind of money Crawley are throwing around. Other teams around them can't afford that kind of cash. CT aren't indicative of the wages at that level of English football.

[Ray_]

It shows the kind of money Crawley are throwing around. Other teams around them can't afford that kind of cash. CT aren't indicative of the wages at that level of English football.

Well said, Man City's wages are indicative of the wages Man City pay, not the Premiership in general.

[HH81]

Crawley Town are an example of how not to run a football club.

If he goes there its another example of football gone mad. They are heading the same way as Halifax did in the next few years.

[Brooster]

Hibs initial offer was less than what ICT were offering him.

[PaulSmith]

Hibs initial offer was less than what ICT were offering him.

Read that on KB as well

[Albion Hibs]

Crawley Town apparently have a load of dodgy money which they have been throwing about for sometime, I think they also got a reasonable FA cup draw last year which no doubt gave them quite a few quid.

Last I heard they were comfortably offering boys 3/4k per week. On that basis I think we will struggle to compete and it is likely anyone going down there will be doing so with the view they are likely going to achieve back to back promotions to get them to a reasonable level.

[Hibs7]

Hibs initial offer was less than what ICT were offering him.


If that is the case then Hibs need to seriously rethink the wage structure, otherwise it will be bottom six for a while to come and even possible relegation, god help us.

[Westie1875]

Hibs initial offer was less than what ICT were offering him.

Ouch, not what you want to hear. :bitchy:

[RIP]

There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?







Sent by S Lindsay from my Blackberry Mobile

[bighairyfaeleith]

If that is the case then Hibs need to seriously rethink the wage structure, otherwise it will be bottom six for a while to come and even possible relegation, god help us.

yeah we should break our wage structure with our first offer, sounds sensible:rolleyes:

[MontrealHibs]

[QUOTE=325EasterRoad;2824961]There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?

I don't know if he will, we need more than just Rooney , but as things stand the people who have renewed for next season could have a row each. We need the club to take action to get significant activity around ticket sales. The number of fans at games towards the end of last season was embarrassing.

[Hibs7]

yeah we should break our wage structure with our first offer, sounds sensible:rolleyes:

Behave, but by all accounts we are not paying enough to attract decent players and develop into a team challenging for at least 3rd each season.

[truehibernian]

If ICT want to break their pay scales and offer him a record deal, fair play and let him consider it. IT only means it's at the expense of other player(s) and another area of the pitch.

IMHO I really don't see what the clamour is for Rooney. Good player with good attributes, and yes if he signed I would consider it a decent signing. But in all honesty there are similar if not better players down south who could offer Hibs much more. We need real pace up top this coming season and someone who can get in behind and poach goals. I want that kind of player first before we look to the likes of a Rooney or Sutton.

Certainly not a player I want the club to break the bank over I'm afraid. If he goes elsewhere good luck to him but not going to lose any sleep over it whatsoever.

[Caversham Green]

There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?







Sent by S Lindsay from my Blackberry Mobile

Actually, it's rather more than that. £5k pw=£260k pa. We have 19 home games so we need to bring in £13,684 per game. At about £20 per ticket (net of VAT) that's 684 extra tickets to be sold.


Sent by the only accountant in the uk without a Blackberry

[Ernie Cobra]

There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?

We dont actually have to, we have reduced squad numbers and rumoured higher earners, Miller Stokes Riordan Bamba. Reduce the squad, pay higher wages, increase the quality in the team and take over the world..........seems easy enough to me.......:wink:







Sent by S Lindsay from my Blackberry Mobile
We dont actually have to, we have reduced squad numbers and rumoured higher earners, Miller Stokes Riordan Bamba. Reduce the squad, pay higher wages, increase the quality in the team and take over the world..........seems easy enough to me.......:wink: Oh and a wee scottish cup win

[Lucius Apuleius]

Actually, it's rather more than that. £5k pw=£260k pa. We have 19 home games so we need to bring in £13,684 per game. At about £20 per ticket (net of VAT) that's 684 extra tickets to be sold.


Sent by the only accountant in the uk without a Blackberry

:grr::grr: F'n accountants!!!!!!!!! :greengrin

Good point though.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Crawley Town are an example of how not to run a football club.

If he goes there its another example of football gone mad. They are heading the same way as Halifax did in the next few years.

Craig Brewster just taken job as Coach at Crawley, maybe Rooney will want to work with him?

[Sergio sledge]

Hibs initial offer was less than what ICT were offering him.

Caley paid crazy wages to Niculae (sp?) IIRC at least double what anyone else in the squad was on and this was bankrolled by one of the directors on the board I think, so perhaps they are trying a similar arrangement here?

[Caversham Green]

:grr::grr: F'n accountants!!!!!!!!! :greengrin

Good point though.

:greengrin Trouble is, accountants know nothing about football.

[Broken Gnome]

There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?







Sent by S Lindsay from my Blackberry Mobile

As a 'name' player, probably not. As someone who will be a more than capable striker that gives us poor sods the chance to actually see Hibs win a few games, then yes.

Hibs need a side that will give people hope. A good start to the season and proof that CC knows what he is doing will easily entice some of the lost numbers back.

[basehibby]

Actually, it's rather more than that. £5k pw=£260k pa. We have 19 home games so we need to bring in £13,684 per game. At about £20 per ticket (net of VAT) that's 684 extra tickets to be sold.


Sent by the only accountant in the uk without a Blackberry

That's nonsense - Rooney, if signed, would not be an "extra" but part of a squad of players who's total wage budget is reckoned to be about £3.5M a year (that's allowing 500K off of 4M for non playing staff).

With a squad of 25 that would mean an average wage of £140K a year. So any "extra" funds to be sourced could only be argued to be 260-140=120K. By your reckoning above that would mean about 316 "extra" bodies per game to pay for the "extravagence" of having someone who can stick the ball in the net on a regular basis.

In any case, this argument is riddled with weaknesses - Hibs have a total wage budget based on projected revenue - it would only be if the total cost of the whole squad exceeded this budget that any "extra" revenue would need to be raised. The relative salaries of individual players within this budget is immaterial.

[Lucius Apuleius]

:greengrin Trouble is, accountants know nothing about football.

As you have proven for many years.:wink:

[Captain Trips]

There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?

Sent by S Lindsay from my Blackberry Mobile

Only if we are at full wage capacity do we need to sell more tickets, with the likes of Riordan, Miller, Rankin, Duffy etc etc etc all of the wage bill then I would surely think we could bring in players.

[iwasthere1972]

There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?

Sent by S Lindsay from my Blackberry Mobile

I wouldn't look at it that way. A striker of Rooney's calibre would at least give us a chance of getting a better position in the league and perhaps, dare I mention it, good run in both the cups.

It's not all about selling more season tickets. Decent league position and cup runs would take care of his wages.

Who in their right mind would want to be in Crawley when you have Edinburgh with it's monuments, castle and trams. No way.

[Captain Trips]

That's nonsense - Rooney, if signed, would not be an "extra" but part of a squad of players who's total wage budget is reckoned to be about £3.5M a year (that's allowing 500K off of 4M for non playing staff).

With a squad of 25 that would mean an average wage of £140K a year. So any "extra" funds to be sourced could only be argued to be 260-140=120K. By your reckoning above that would mean about 316 "extra" bodies per game to pay for the "extravagence" of having someone who can stick the ball in the net on a regular basis.

In any case, this argument is riddled with weaknesses - Hibs have a total wage budget based on projected revenue - it would only be if the total cost of the whole squad exceeded this budget that any "extra" revenue would need to be raised. The relative salaries of individual players within this budget is immaterial.

Indeed we could in theory pay 2 players £20k p/w and have rest of squad on whats left of budget. Of course I am not suggesting we do that but we certainly may have the potential if the squad size is right to bring in some players on a higher wage.

[aob4green]

Actually, it's rather more than that. £5k pw=£260k pa. We have 19 home games so we need to bring in £13,684 per game. At about £20 per ticket (net of VAT) that's 684 extra tickets to be sold.


Sent by the only accountant in the uk without a Blackberry

Or what about using the money freed up by a couple of the numerous players who have left?

[Caversham Green]

That's nonsense - Rooney, if signed, would not be an "extra" but part of a squad of players who's total wage budget is reckoned to be about £3.5M a year (that's allowing 500K off of 4M for non playing staff).

With a squad of 25 that would mean an average wage of £140K a year. So any "extra" funds to be sourced could only be argued to be 260-140=120K. By your reckoning above that would mean about 316 "extra" bodies per game to pay for the "extravagence" of having someone who can stick the ball in the net on a regular basis.

In any case, this argument is riddled with weaknesses - Hibs have a total wage budget based on projected revenue - it would only be if the total cost of the whole squad exceeded this budget that any "extra" revenue would need to be raised. The relative salaries of individual players within this budget is immaterial.

Crivvens! I was only correcting the other guys sums.

On the matter of numbers though, I think we'll have more than 25 playing staff on the payroll - the number CC has been talking about is first team squad only. We had 67 players and management in 2010 (and 31 commercial and administration staff). That will have come down a bit but not as low as 25.

The figures do still illustrate (very broadly) that for every £5k p/w we pay in wages we need about 700 bums on seats - probably about 720 when NIC is factored in. And that's before we start paying overheads etc.

[IWasThere2016]

:greengrin Trouble is, accountants know nothing about football.

I think you and I are recognised as the exceptions C :agree:




(if only by our good selves)

[MontrealHibs]

we need about 700 bums on seats -

We had a few bums on seats last season. That was just the players not selected for matchday! :greengrin

[dangermouse]

Sent by the only accountant in the uk without a Blackberry

I don't have a Blackberry either but then I'm not an accountant. I've got a nectarine for my lunch though. :devil:

[TonyStokeprano]

Are all youth players wages counted in the wage budget. I know their not paid much but just wondering out of interest. Is the manager and coaches wages included ? Also how do people know our wage budget is 4 million?

[basehibby]

Crivvens! I was only correcting the other guys sums.

On the matter of numbers though, I think we'll have more than 25 playing staff on the payroll - the number CC has been talking about is first team squad only. We had 67 players and management in 2010 (and 31 commercial and administration staff). That will have come down a bit but not as low as 25.

The figures do still illustrate (very broadly) that for every £5k p/w we pay in wages we need about 700 bums on seats - probably about 720 when NIC is factored in. And that's before we start paying overheads etc.

This probably works (broadly) in terms of an "extra" spend over and above budget and that has to be the question asked by the board if there's a proposal to exceed budget - will said player pay for himself? In some cases where the signing generates genuine excitement the answer is probably yes (eg. Riordan, Stokes in recent times).

In other cases whereby the quality of the signing brings about a significant upturn in fortunes on the park (and consequent increases in gate money, cup runs, prize money etc), they would also justify extra spend on wages (Sauzee & Latapy anyone?).

NB - regarding youth players and reserve coaches - surely their wages pale into near insignificance when put next to those of first team regulars and managers :dunno:

[basehibby]

Are all youth players wages counted in the wage budget. I know their not paid much but just wondering out of interest. Is the manager and coaches wages included ? Also how do people know our wage budget is 4 million?

The £4M wage bill is taken from recent published accounts. That would include ALL wages at ER from the the highest paid player to the the lowliest tea lady.

[Caversham Green]

This probably works (broadly) in terms of an "extra" spend over and above budget and that has to be the question asked by the board if there's a proposal to exceed budget - will said player pay for himself? In some cases where the signing generates genuine excitement the answer is probably yes (eg. Riordan, Stokes in recent times).

In other cases whereby the quality of the signing brings about a significant upturn in fortunes on the park (and consequent increases in gate money, cup runs, prize money etc), they would also justify extra spend on wages (Sauzee & Latapy anyone?).

NB - regarding youth players and reserve coaches - surely their wages pale into near insignificance when put next to those of first team regulars and managers :dunno:

In my second post I was meaning the wage budget as a whole rather than for additional players - in other words, a playing budget of £2.6m needs 7,000 fans paying £20+VAT a ticket to pay for it. I don't want to labour the point though, because it's not a very good way of assessing things - too many other factors to take into account.

On the point of youth players etc, yes they will be paid a lot less than the first team, but in total they will take a fair chunk out of the budget and shouldn't be disregarded completely.

[Baader]

Crawley Town aren't indicative of pay in the Football League. Due to their backer, as a non-league side last season, they outspent every club in the English League 1 and League 2 and also the SPL barring Celtic and Rangers. They even managed to spend more than half the Championship.

They probably could offer Rooney better terms but it is League 2 - overall not a very good standard and although the SPL isn't exactly strong - it's still way ahead of L2.

[JimBHibees]

Crawley Town aren't indicative of pay in the Football League. Due to their backer, as a non-league side last season, they outspent every club in the English League 1 and League 2 and also the SPL barring Celtic and Rangers. They even managed to spend more than half the Championship.

They probably could offer Rooney better terms but it is League 2 - overall not a very good standard and although the SPL isn't exactly strong - it's still way ahead of L2.

Maybe so but it is likely they are only going one way so personally think he would be tempted by that if the wages were so much better.

[Beefster]

Actually, it's rather more than that. £5k pw=£260k pa. We have 19 home games so we need to bring in £13,684 per game. At about £20 per ticket (net of VAT) that's 684 extra tickets to be sold.


Sent by the only accountant in the uk without a Blackberry

If he was to help us have a successful season and play eye-pleasing football, we'd get those folk in easily.

Hibs won't sign him though IMO. If true that Hibs' initial offer was lower than ICTs then Hibs need to reconsider their strategy. How many players that we want/need just turn around then and say "**** off then"?

[ancient hibee]

:greengrin Trouble is, accountants know nothing about football.
Unlike posters on here who know everything about football AND high finance.

Haven´t seen anyone mention the extra costs e.g employers NHI what´s that 12%?

[IanM]

Are all youth players wages counted in the wage budget. I know their not paid much but just wondering out of interest. Is the manager and coaches wages included ? Also how do people know our wage budget is 4 million?

The £4M wage bill is taken from recent published accounts. That would include ALL wages at ER from the the highest paid player to the the lowliest tea lady.

That's it settled - we'll sack the tea lady and go in with an improved offer? :devil:
the tea lady is Hibs class though

[stokesmessiah]

Unlike posters on here who know everything about football AND high finance.

Haven´t seen anyone mention the extra costs e.g employers NHI what´s that 12%?

13.8%

[Houchy]

I wouldn't look at it that way. A striker of Rooney's calibre would at least give us a chance of getting a better position in the league and perhaps, dare I mention it, good run in both the cups.

It's not all about selling more season tickets. Decent league position and cup runs would take care of his wages.

Who in their right mind would want to be in Crawley when you have Edinburgh with it's monuments, castle and trams. No way.

Although finishing 7th is by no means an achievement, it's a fair whack financially(circa £240k at £80k per place) compared to finishing 10th. Those "professional" players that got us in the bottom 6 in the first place, just took an early holiday and couldn't give a flying one about playing for pride.

If they had tried, I trully believe that we would have finished 7th.

[son of haggart]

In my second post I was meaning the wage budget as a whole rather than for additional players - in other words, a playing budget of £2.6m needs 7,000 fans paying £20+VAT a ticket to pay for it. I don't want to labour the point though, because it's not a very good way of assessing things - too many other factors to take into account.

On the point of youth players etc, yes they will be paid a lot less than the first team, but in total they will take a fair chunk out of the budget and shouldn't be disregarded completely.

While I accept that the direct relationship between players' wages and gate receipts/ season ticket income is too simplistic I think it does give a good indication of the problems clubs facing in responding to fans demands that they sign better, more experienced players. If Hibs were paying 11 first teamers £5k per week the whole of thegate receipt income would be gone before other players, staff, directors, premises costs etc were taken into account. Football clubs, outside the real big earners, really struggle to even break even.

[hibs0666]

Ouch, not what you want to hear. :bitchy:

Only if you believe it.

[sahib]

While I accept that the direct relationship between players' wages and gate receipts/ season ticket income is too simplistic I think it does give a good indication of the problems clubs facing in responding to fans demands that they sign better, more experienced players. If Hibs were paying 11 first teamers £5k per week the whole of thegate receipt income would be gone before other players, staff, directors, premises costs etc were taken into account. Football clubs, outside the real big earners, really struggle to even break even.

There is a lower limit too. How many people will pay to watch utter dross?
The team are your product in a way. It is not like "Quick fit" where nobody cares about the chap fitting the exhaust. Football is show biz and the star system has been known about since the days of the music hall. I know some posters here worry more about the price and quality of the catering or the colour of the away strip but by and large people pay to watch good football and that takes players of a certain standard who have a market value.

[Wembley67]

Goes to Crawley, scores a huge amount of goals then will defo get snapped up by a club higher up the leagues - makes sense unfortunately.

[EK_Hibs]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_6979582,00.html


Update from Malpas

[derek1875hfc]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_6979582,00.html

No mention of us here but still hoping

[silverhibee]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_6979582,00.html


Update from Malpas


Butcher saying only English clubs have had talks with Rooney, and if he doesn't agree anything down South Rooney would consider staying at ICT.

[green&left]

Goes to Crawley, scores a huge amount of goals then will defo get snapped up by a club higher up the leagues - makes sense unfortunately.

Goes to Crawley, they go bust. Rooney goes off the radar. Sounds better to me.


Anyone that goes to Crawley instead of Hibs (if they have made an offer) needs their head looked at. Ok he'll get an extra grand or two a week but thats not enough compensation for the fact he'll be living in removed Crawley and playing the likes of Gateshead and Eastbourne every week!

[blackpoolhibs]

Goes to Crawley, they go bust. Rooney goes off the radar. Sounds better to me.


Anyone that goes to Crawley instead of Hibs (if they have made an offer) needs their head looked at. Ok he'll get an extra grand or two a week but thats not enough compensation for the fact he'll be living in removed Crawley and playing the likes of Gateshead and Eastbourne every week!

:confused:

[Spike Mandela]

Let's forget Rooney. If he has options in England we have no chance. Next!

[Brooster]

Only if you believe it.

Rooney was at east mains in January for talks and a look around. Hibs offer at the time was less than ict were offering.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Rooney was at east mains in January for talks and a look around. Hibs offer at the time was less than ict were offering.

Why did he "look around" if Hibs' offer was that poor?

:dunno:

[Andy74]

Rooney was at east mains in January for talks and a look around. Hibs offer at the time was less than ict were offering.

You really believe that?

[silverhibee]

Let's forget Rooney. If he has options in England we have no chance. Next!

Tade. Oh wait... :greengrin

[Aldo]

Time to move on and obsess with someone else who is not going to sign for the club. :aok:

[basehibby]

Let's forget Rooney. If he has options in England we have no chance. Next!

T'aint necessarily so - we SHOULD be able to complete with the likes of Crawley - a nowhere dump of a place, the most positive feature of which is Gatwick Airport. ie the fastest route as far away as possible from the midden.

It IS a quite a big nowhere dump with a population of about 100K. But 99% of the football followers there will need to be weaned off of Tottenham/Arsenal/Chelsea/ANOther before they will be able to compete with the likes of Dunfermline in terms of attendance.

Hibs ARE undoubtably a far more attractive option in terms of location, stature and standard of football (we are comparing to League 2 here afterall!) but of course money talks. Even still though, I would have thought that if Hibs put in an offer in the same ball park then Rooney would have to be a pure plum to go to Crawley instead.

[Brooster]

You really believe that?
without going into detail Rooney said this himself. In January Hibs also had to factor in a transfer fee which is no longer an issue which in turn may allow us to increase the terms on offer. Make no mistake, petrie operates at the lower end of the pay scale.

[dangermouse]

without going into detail Rooney said this himself. In January Hibs also had to factor in a transfer fee which is no longer an issue which in turn may allow us to increase the terms on offer. Make no mistake, petrie operates at the lower end of the pay scale.

Link?

[Dashing Bob S]

I'd find it creepy if he went to Crawley.

[GreenPJ]

without going into detail Rooney said this himself. In January Hibs also had to factor in a transfer fee which is no longer an issue which in turn may allow us to increase the terms on offer. Make no mistake, petrie operates at the lower end of the pay scale.

I presume the model they are trying to adopt is low basic but decent bonus offering?

Whatever we are offering it was enough to persuade Sproule to move back up the road and Stack to stick with Edinburgh for another year.

[iwasthere1972]

Goes to Crawley, they go bust. Rooney goes off the radar. Sounds better to me.


Anyone that goes to Crawley instead of Hibs (if they have made an offer) needs their head looked at. Ok he'll get an extra grand or two a week but thats not enough compensation for the fact he'll be living in removed Crawley and playing the likes of Gateshead and Eastbourne every week!

Not now that they are in division 2.

Why would Rooney go to Crawley when their average attendance last season were somewhere in the region of 2500. How many would they expect to get next season in the football league? 4000. :dunno:

There is a mandatory wage cap in this division that limits spending on players' wages to 60% of club turnover. The most expensive season ticket at Crawley is £354 (and there is a 21.9% interest charge if paying by instalments although this is via a finance company) and the lowest is £99 for 18's and under. Even if they sold 4000 season tickets at an average price of £226.50 that would only bring in £906,000. The capacity of their stadium is just under 5,000 so even if you assume that the other 1,000 seats will be bought by away fans at an average of £15 each x 19 matches that would bring in an extra £345,000. Total gate receipts would therefore be £1,251,000.

I've no idea what income they would take from other activities but even if they took the same as they do from gate receipts that would only bring their total revenue up to somewhere in the region of £2,500,000. It's probably well below that figure but for arguments sake let's say that it is £2,500,000 the maximum they could spend on wages would be £1,500,000 a year. So by my reckoning there's no way that they could compete even with Hibs.

Can't see Rooney wanting to go to Crawley to play in a 5,000 capacity stadium in front of crowds of 4,000 or so when he could come to Easter Road and play in a magnificent stadium with bigger attendances and better fans. :aok:

[JimBHibees]

Not now that they are in division 2.

Why would Rooney go to Crawley when their average attendance last season were somewhere in the region of 2500. How many would they expect to get next season in the football league? 4000. :dunno:

There is a mandatory wage cap in this division that limits spending on players' wages to 60% of club turnover. The most expensive season ticket at Crawley is £354 (and there is a 21.9% interest charge if paying by instalments although this is via a finance company) and the lowest is £99 for 18's and under. Even if they sold 4000 season tickets at an average price of £226.50 that would only bring in £906,000. The capacity of their stadium is just under 5,000 so even if you assume that the other 1,000 seats will be bought by away fans at an average of £15 each x 19 matches that would bring in an extra £345,000. Total gate receipts would therefore be £1,251,000.

I've no idea what income they would take from other activities but even if they took the same as they do from gate receipts that would only bring their total revenue up to somewhere in the region of £2,500,000. It's probably well below that figure but for arguments sake let's say that it is £2,500,000 the maximum they could spend on wages would be £1,500,000 a year. So by my reckoning there's no way that they could compete even with Hibs.

Can't see Rooney wanting to go to Crawley to play in a 5,000 capacity stadium in front of crowds of 4,000 or so when he could come to Easter Road and play in a magnificent stadium with bigger attendances and better fans. :aok:

They can because their owner is absolutely minted and currently throwing money at the club.

[Spike Mandela]

T'aint necessarily so - we SHOULD be able to complete with the likes of Crawley - a nowhere dump of a place, the most positive feature of which is Gatwick Airport. ie the fastest route as far away as possible from the midden.

It IS a quite a big nowhere dump with a population of about 100K. But 99% of the football followers there will need to be weaned off of Tottenham/Arsenal/Chelsea/ANOther before they will be able to compete with the likes of Dunfermline in terms of attendance.

Hibs ARE undoubtably a far more attractive option in terms of location, stature and standard of football (we are comparing to League 2 here afterall!) but of course money talks. Even still though, I would have thought that if Hibs put in an offer in the same ball park then Rooney would have to be a pure plum to go to Crawley instead.

Sky report says he has several clubs in England interested in him. They are unlikely to all be as lowly as Crawley.

I think a lot of people need to re-evaluate just what Hibs standing is in the football world these days. A young player whose career is on the up in the SPL is unlikely to choose Hibs to further it At this present time IMO.

[iwasthere1972]

They can because their owner is absolutely minted and currently throwing money at the club.

It will all end in tears. :agree: They may have rich owners but they don't even own their stadium which is leased from the council.

Anyway as I've said before I can't imagine for one minute Rooney playing anywhere near Gatwick.

[hibsquaker]

Crawley set a non league record last season when they signed Brodie from York for £250k or £350k. He hardly played for them and I think he is now on loan at Fleetwood (who also now have a big backer and are outbidding everyone in the conference for next season)

They basically blew the opposition out of the water financially last season. Also on the pitch they cheated for everything. Steve Evans their manager is a scrote.

[Brooster]

I presume the model they are trying to adopt is low basic but decent bonus offering?

Whatever we are offering it was enough to persuade Sproule to move back up the road and Stack to stick with Edinburgh for another year.

I don't know the breakdown mate. Sproule and Stack were not spoilt for choice, nobody signs for a year if they are. Rooney may well be spoilt for choice.

[col02]

Sky report says he has several clubs in England interested in him. They are unlikely to all be as lowly as Crawley.

I think a lot of people need to re-evaluate just what Hibs standing is in the football world these days. A young player whose career is on the up in the SPL is unlikely to choose Hibs to further it At this present time IMO.

:agree: Sad but true! I think some people overplay the fact we are a supposed big club in Scotland when in reality we are amongst a clutch of other clubs who have the odd good season here and there where they make a final of the cup or finish third in the league.

[DH1875]

Time to move on and obsess with someone else who is not going to sign for the club. :aok:


:agree::agree::agree:.
Adam Rooney will not be playing for us next season. We can't even match what ICT offered him yet alone teams down south.

[marinello59]

:agree::agree::agree:.
Adam Rooney will not be playing for us next season. We can't even match what ICT offered him yet alone teams down south.

Is that a fact?

[DH1875]

Is that a fact?


Erm... Yip it is. This is the last time I'm saying this cause it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out. ICT have offered Rooney their highest ever wage. Their chairman has publicly staited that the contract they have offered would make him the highest paid player in their history. As documented in the recent court case (so it is a fact) they were paying Niculae £4k a week. If Rooney is to become the highest paid player in their history it would stand to reason they must have offered him at least the same e.g. £4k a week. We are not going to pay him £4k a week,

Fact :na na:.

[HibsMax]

Erm... Yip it is. This is the last time I'm saying this cause it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out. ICT have offered Rooney their highest ever wage. Their chairman has publicly staited that the contract they have offered would make him the highest paid player in their history. As documented in the recent court case (so it is a fact) they were paying Niculae £4k a week. If Rooney is to become the highest paid player in their history it would stand to reason they must have offered him at least the same e.g. £4k a week. We are not going to pay him £4k a week,

Fact :na na:.

Opinion. :wink:

[R'Albin]

Erm... Yip it is. This is the last time I'm saying this cause it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out. ICT have offered Rooney their highest ever wage. Their chairman has publicly staited that the contract they have offered would make him the highest paid player in their history. As documented in the recent court case (so it is a fact) they were paying Niculae £4k a week. If Rooney is to become the highest paid player in their history it would stand to reason they must have offered him at least the same e.g. £4k a week. We are not going to pay him £4k a week,

Fact :na na:.

Did cc tell you that personally?

[degenerated]

I'd find it creepy if he went to Crawley.

:tee hee:

[ScottB]

They can because their owner is absolutely minted and currently throwing money at the club.

They can't because the League have effectively set budget caps, doesn't matter how rich their owner may or may not be, they can only spend 60% of their income on wages.

[DH1875]

Opinion. :wink:

True, but you get my drift.


Did cc tell you that personally?

Do you think we've offered him £4k+ a week cause I don't.

[HibsMax]

True, but you get my drift.

I do indeed. ;)

I don't know if we'll offer him that much or not. All I've heard is that we didn't match it.........but who starts off negotiations with their BEST offer?

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I'd find it creepy if he went to Crawley.

:greengrin:greengrin

[stantonhibby]

Erm... Yip it is. This is the last time I'm saying this cause it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out. ICT have offered Rooney their highest ever wage. Their chairman has publicly staited that the contract they have offered would make him the highest paid player in their history. As documented in the recent court case (so it is a fact) they were paying Niculae £4k a week. If Rooney is to become the highest paid player in their history it would stand to reason they must have offered him at least the same e.g. £4k a week. We are not going to pay him £4k a week,

Fact :na na:.


Im sure the deal with Niculae was one where it was actually one of the Director's personally or local businessmen paying the bulk of his wages as opposed to the club itself ?

[DH1875]

Im sure the deal with Niculae was one where it was actually one of the Director's personally or local businessmen paying the bulk of his wages as opposed to the club itself ?


Apparently the the bloke topped up Niculae's wage to £5k and paid him his signing on fee which was a staggering £200k :shocked:. The club however paid the bulk of the wage £4k a week and this was confirmed at the court case.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Guess what Rooney has to think of is, is his next move a stepping stone? Scoring goals for ICT has maybe only generated real interest from other SPL teams, but scoring in a lesser league for decent money will give him a better profile. A step backwards to take a leap forward?

[Kaiser1962]

Read that on KB as well

They'll know right enough.

[TheGreenMan]

I'd find it creepy if he went to Crawley.

This is simply brilliant.

:tee hee:

[Kaiser1962]

Unlike posters on here who know everything about football AND high finance.

Haven´t seen anyone mention the extra costs e.g employers NHI what´s that 12%?

Insurances, pensions, bonuses (ha!)

[scoopyboy]

Why did he "look around" if Hibs' offer was that poor?

:dunno:

He looked around East Mains before the offer was made.

Simples, eh.

[Kaiser1962]

Butcher saying only English clubs have had talks with Rooney, and if he doesn't agree anything down South Rooney would consider staying at ICT.

So we might not even be looking to sign Adam Rooney? Jeezo.

[scoopyboy]

:agree::agree::agree:.
Adam Rooney will not be playing for us next season. We can't even match what ICT offered him yet alone teams down south.

Not strictly true.

Our initial offer was below what ICT offered, but as anyone who has been involved in wage negotiations, bidding at auctions, playing cards etc will tell you you don't steam in with a huge amount to start with.

[aberhibsfc]

I wouldn't look at it that way. A striker of Rooney's calibre would at least give us a chance of getting a better position in the league and perhaps, dare I mention it, good run in both the cups.

It's not all about selling more season tickets. Decent league position and cup runs would take care of his wages.

Who in their right mind would want to be in Crawley when you have Edinburgh with it's monuments, castle and trams. No way.

Trams, where? Think they've all be rented out elsewhere. Total shambles, that's a Hearts loving council fer ye!

[Kaiser1962]

Sky report says he has several clubs in England interested in him. They are unlikely to all be as lowly as Crawley.

I think a lot of people need to re-evaluate just what Hibs standing is in the football world these days. A young player whose career is on the up in the SPL is unlikely to choose Hibs to further it At this present time IMO.

Spot on Spike

[Kaiser1962]

They can't because the League have effectively set budget caps, doesn't matter how rich their owner may or may not be, they can only spend 60% of their income on wages.

What if their income includes some sort of corporate sponsorship paid for by the moneybags owner?

[steakbake]

What if their income includes some sort of corporate sponsorship paid for by the moneybags owner?

Indeed. That 60% is just a headline. There's lots of ways to pay someone without it going through the wage bill. The chairman might pay part of the salary from a different company, for example.

[Kaiser1962]

Indeed. That 60% is just a headline. There's lots of ways to pay someone without it going through the wage bill. The chairman might pay part of the salary from a different company, for example.

Like an offshore company? And avoid tax? Surely no-one is that low? :greengrin

Was actually very common in the National Leagues when Rugby was still amateur.

[MyJo]

Not strictly true.

Our initial offer was below what ICT offered, but as anyone who has been involved in wage negotiations, bidding at auctions, playing cards etc will tell you you don't steam in with a huge amount to start with.

I very much doubt that Rooney would have come down to edinburgh to be shown around the training centre and discuss a contract if he and his agent did not know what kind of money Hibs would be paying and vice-versa Hibs wouldn't be making the effort if his demands were totally unrealistic and we couldn't afford him.

Probably offered a contract with Lower basic salary but with more emphasis on appearance/goal bonuses as a starting point given that we were not sure if Deeks & Miller would be on the payroll for next season at that point and using up money from the budget for thier contracts?

[HibsMax]

If those numbers don't include sign-on bonuses then the system is open to corruption.

Player : I want 5,000 / wk.
Team : We can't, we can only afford to pay 3,000 / wk before we hit the cap.
Player : Hmmmm. OK. Then pay me 3,000 / wk and give me a sign-on bonus of (weeks * 2,000) and we'll get this thing signed.

Are football players paid 52 weeks a year or only weeks they play or something else? Whatever it is, use that number in place of "weeks" above.

[scoopyboy]

I very much doubt that Rooney would have come down to edinburgh to be shown around the training centre and discuss a contract if he and his agent did not know what kind of money Hibs would be paying and vice-versa Hibs wouldn't be making the effort if his demands were totally unrealistic and we couldn't afford him.

Probably offered a contract with Lower basic salary but with more emphasis on appearance/goal bonuses as a starting point given that we were not sure if Deeks & Miller would be on the payroll for next season at that point and using up money from the budget for thier contracts?

Not disagreeing with what you are saying but I was merely stating you opening offer does not necassarily mean that it is as high as you can go.

I know for sure Rooney was shown around East Mains in January.

[MyJo]

Not disagreeing with what you are saying but I was merely stating you opening offer does not necassarily mean that it is as high as you can go.

I know for sure Rooney was shown around East Mains in January.

sorry scoopy i quoted you but wasn't really replying to what you had said, more of a general rant i was on :greengrin

FWIW i totally agree with what you were saying :agree:

[Kaiser1962]

Not disagreeing with what you are saying but I was merely stating you opening offer does not necassarily mean that it is as high as you can go.

I know for sure Rooney was shown around East Mains in January.

Which is why someone other than the manager deals with the negotiations these days. Does not impinge on the relationship of manager and player.

[1987kev]

I dont think big eck will take him , hes took to many chances on spl players.
I think we will sign him hes wanting to play international he will not get that
in league 2 in england.

[SmokieJoe]

[QUOTE=325EasterRoad;2824961]There is no wage cap at ER, but there is a budget. If we pay £5K a week we have to sell 250 more tickets for every home game to make the extra wage worthwhile

Will Adam add that number to the gate?

I don't know if he will, we need more than just Rooney , but as things stand the people who have renewed for next season could have a row each. We need the club to take action to get significant activity around ticket sales. The number of fans at games towards the end of last season was embarrassing.

:agree:

But i hav seen worse, my brother whitied...nae greenied at a gam 'vs Dundee back in th day. (he had enough room to lie down in the auld east stand under the press gantry)

[SmokieJoe]

Not strictly true.

Our initial offer was below what ICT offered, but as anyone who has been involved in wage negotiations, bidding at auctions, playing cards etc will tell you you don't steam in with a huge amount to start with.

Ant and Dec, (unless you have a poker face?) poker face? thats not very nice, i know she's not the best looking woman....

[oldbutdim]

Rooney was at east mains in January for talks and a look around. Hibs offer at the time was less than ict were offering.

Amazing how that was repeated.............. I wonder who started it?

[ScottB]

If those numbers don't include sign-on bonuses then the system is open to corruption.

Player : I want 5,000 / wk.
Team : We can't, we can only afford to pay 3,000 / wk before we hit the cap.
Player : Hmmmm. OK. Then pay me 3,000 / wk and give me a sign-on bonus of (weeks * 2,000) and we'll get this thing signed.

Are football players paid 52 weeks a year or only weeks they play or something else? Whatever it is, use that number in place of "weeks" above.

I'm sure folk on here have said that has been Hibs policy in recent years, making up for a lower basic wage with big signing on fees.

[R'Albin]

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/94187-adam-rooney-bet/page__pid__2261332#entry2261332 interesting thread on sickback on about hibs and rooney.

[Mikey]

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/94187-adam-rooney-bet/page__pid__2261332#entry2261332 interesting thread on sickback on about hibs and rooney.

Erm.......... what's interesting about it??

[HH81]

If those numbers don't include sign-on bonuses then the system is open to corruption.

Player : I want 5,000 / wk.
Team : We can't, we can only afford to pay 3,000 / wk before we hit the cap.
Player : Hmmmm. OK. Then pay me 3,000 / wk and give me a sign-on bonus of (weeks * 2,000) and we'll get this thing signed.

Are football players paid 52 weeks a year or only weeks they play or something else? Whatever it is, use that number in place of "weeks" above.

In England league 2 and above are all paid for 52 weeks a year. The conf used to be for 40 weeks not sure if still the case.

[hibee92]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6979582,00.html

derby and reading being mentioned as well in places

[steakbake]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6979582,00.html

derby and reading being mentioned as well in places

Celtic interested in Shane Long. Bayern are also interested in him. Bottom line though is that Reading are probably about to lose a striker.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

No doubting anyone's postings like, but I dinnae get the idea that we were offering less than ICT to Rooney. If I was moving jobs, a bonnier factory wouldn't be top of my list.

[HibbyAndy]

No doubting anyone's postings like, but I dinnae get the idea that we were offering less than ICT to Rooney. If I was moving jobs, a bonnier factory wouldn't be top of my list.

I actually find it staggering we would offer less money than ICT, Dont believe it for one nano second.

[scoopyboy]

I actually find it staggering we would offer less money than ICT, Dont believe it for one nano second.

Quite right, just you believe what you want.

[Beefster]

I actually find it staggering we would offer less money than ICT, Dont believe it for one nano second.

I'm not so sure. If ICT are desperate to keep him and make him their highest paid player ever, they may well have offered a lot more than we did.

Although folk are saying that contract negotiations are just that - negotiations - there is a fine line between going in with a cute low offer and just plain insulting a player / agent.

[Brooster]

I actually find it staggering we would offer less money than ICT, Dont believe it for one nano second.

This is fact not fiction mate.

Here is how it worked (I didnt think I would end up having to spell this out):

Jan 2010:
Rooney is on £xx a year at ICT
He meets Hibs who offer him £yy a year
He Speaks to other clubs who also offer him deals.
ICT offer him a new contract worth £zz per year.

£zz is more than £yy. No doubt things have moved on since January but which part of that are you having difficulty with?

[HibbyAndy]

This is fact not fiction mate.

Here is how it worked (I didnt think I would end up having to spell this out):

Jan 2010:
Rooney is on £xx a year at ICT
He meets Hibs who offer him £yy a year
He Speaks to other clubs who also offer him deals.
ICT offer him a new contract worth £zz per year.

£zz is more than £yy. No doubt things have moved on since January but which part of that are you having difficulty with?


Im having difficulty in believing that ICT can offer more in the way of finance than Hibernian f.c..I mean ICT?? WTF??.

Cheers for the feedback guys :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

This is fact not fiction mate.

Here is how it worked (I didnt think I would end up having to spell this out):

Jan 2010:
Rooney is on £xx a year at ICT
He meets Hibs who offer him £yy a year
He Speaks to other clubs who also offer him deals.
ICT offer him a new contract worth £zz per year.

£zz is more than £yy. No doubt things have moved on since January but which part of that are you having difficulty with?

Apart from seeing unarguable evidence of the whole thing, this is the part I having most difficulty with. I am with Billy Connolly on this one... I must've missed school the day they were learning the B times table.

[bruno]

I actually find it staggering we would offer less money than ICT, Dont believe it for one nano second.

Depends how you look at it
A year ago at the start of negtiations ICT may ave offered him say £3k per week and a year down the line negotiations may have now reached £5K per week with sell on clause or the thought of a fee being received( in the future if he signs) by ICT to recoup their difference.

Hibs may have ofered him as a starter £3.5k a week but willing to go to £5k at the end of negotiations.

To those with little snippets of knowledge it's easy to say Hibs offered less but I would imagine contracts have so many clauses it may not have been worth less to him over the full term of the contract.

[HibbyAndy]

Quite right, just you believe what you want.

Whats with the smart arse comment??

[Caversham Green]

I actually find it staggering we would offer less money than ICT, Dont believe it for one nano second.

The only people who would know for certain how much both Hibs and ICT had offered Rooney are Rooney himself and his agent so anyone suggesting that Hibs offered less either heard it from them or made it up. Rooney/his agent are looking for as much money as possible out of any deal so it's in their interest that a rumour like this should be doing the rounds so, if the story did originate from them they could either have made it up completely or cherry-picked the parts of the story they wanted people to hear (eg Hibs first offer was less than ICT's final offer).

In short, if the story isn't complete fiction it comes from someone with an agenda and should be taken with more than a pinch of salt.

[BEEJ]

I'm not so sure. If ICT are desperate to keep him and make him their highest paid player ever, they may well have offered a lot more than we did.
:agree: And this would be good enough reason for Rooney to fall from our radar as we turn our attention to other options.

From the quotes by Malpas yesterday it sounds like its either English clubs or ICT. The 'highest paid player' at ICT (as pointed out earlier on this thread) would put Rooney on at least £4k per week. If that's the 'floor' I can see why Hibs might have stepped away from the bidding.

We'll see. Eventually.

[KeithTheHibby]

We won't get Rooney, this thread should be closed.

[HibbyAndy]

We won't get Rooney, this thread should be closed.

IMO Hibs have no chance whatsover of landing Rooney, Id imagine a fair few English clubs would be eager to snap him up so that would be the end of our chances.

[R'Albin]

Depends how you look at it
A year ago at the start of negtiations ICT may ave offered him say £3k per week and a year down the line negotiations may have now reached £5K per week with sell on clause or the thought of a fee being received( in the future if he signs) by ICT to recoup their difference.

Hibs may have ofered him as a starter £3.5k a week but willing to go to £5k at the end of negotiations.

To those with little snippets of knowledge it's easy to say Hibs offered less but I would imagine contracts have so many clauses it may not have been worth less to him over the full term of the contract.

:agree:

[Brooster]

The only people who would know for certain how much both Hibs and ICT had offered Rooney are Rooney himself and his agent so anyone suggesting that Hibs offered less either heard it from them or made it up. Rooney/his agent are looking for as much money as possible out of any deal so it's in their interest that a rumour like this should be doing the rounds so, if the story did originate from them they could either have made it up completely or cherry-picked the parts of the story they wanted people to hear (eg Hibs first offer was less than ICT's final offer).

In short, if the story isn't complete fiction it comes from someone with an agenda and should be taken with more than a pinch of salt.

My contact/s is/are employed at Hibs so that kinda blows your theory out of the water.

[ancient hibee]

My contact/s is/are employed at Hibs so that kinda blows your theory out of the water.
Why?

[Brooster]

Why?

Is he not suggesting Rooney and his agent made up this rumour or cherry picked parts? He is also suggesting I am creating 'fiction' which couldnt be further off the mark. Anyone who knows me on this bord will know that is not my style.

[Caversham Green]

My contact/s is/are employed at Hibs so that kinda blows your theory out of the water.

How do they know what ICT offered?

[MyJo]

Is he not suggesting Rooney and his agent made up this rumour or cherry picked parts? He is also suggesting I am creating 'fiction' which couldnt be further off the mark. Anyone who knows me on this bord will know that is not my style.

was our offer more than his existing ict contract??

[Brooster]

How do they know what ICT offered?

They (Hibs) dont know what ICT offered but did know it was higher. Anyhow thats the last snippet from me on here, too many cranks (who dont even follow the club) trying to shoot you down in flames.

[Aldo]

Time to move on and obsess with someone else who is not going to sign for the club. :aok:

As Above

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think a lot of people need to re-evaluate just what Hibs standing is in the football world these days.

This is the most pertinent point in the entire thread and its hugely depressing!

[silverhibee]

I actually find it staggering we would offer less money than ICT, Dont believe it for one nano second.

As Scoopyboy said Andy, Hibs had Rooney at EM for a look around in January, i know this because a player was in getting treatment the same day and spoke to him, AR said he was down having talks with Hibs, he was then taken to ER to have these talks, its now obvious that these talks didn't go too good, money being the problem.
As from this season Andy, Hibs are paying not the best wages which will make it hard to bring in players like Rooney or any decent quality.
Wee will be shopping in cost- cutters now, the goods in lidil are too pricey now. :greengrin
ICT are offering AR a good wage, more than Hibs are, ICT are making him there highest paid player in the clubs history if he agrees to stay with them, another good season or half from AR up there and ICT will cash in and get a good fee for him.
I dont think Hibs will be able to even match these wages never mind better them. :aok:

[silverhibee]

I'm not so sure. If ICT are desperate to keep him and make him their highest paid player ever, they may well have offered a lot more than we did.

Although folk are saying that contract negotiations are just that - negotiations - there is a fine line between going in with a cute low offer and just plain insulting a player / agent.


:agree:

[scoopyboy]

Whats with the smart arse comment??

Have a guess.

[Kaiser1962]

Is he not suggesting Rooney and his agent made up this rumour or cherry picked parts? He is also suggesting I am creating 'fiction' which couldnt be further off the mark. Anyone who knows me on this bord will know that is not my style.

I dont think he was Brooster. My take was that he was saying Rooney/his agent/whovever may be manipulating the figures to get the best deal for AR as no-one knows what both offers were. They may know what one was but unlikely they know both for definite.

I know AR was at EM in January, it's no secret. I do not think for one minute, however, that AR or his agent contemplated moving before now (i.e. the summer) when there would be a possibility of a sustantial signing on fee instead of ICT recieving a transfer fee. It would be financialy foolish to do so.

I am told the clubs were not far apart regarding a fee in January and the fact AR was at EM would suggest this might be true.

[basehibby]

As Scoopyboy said Andy, Hibs had Rooney at EM for a look around in January, i know this because a player was in getting treatment the same day and spoke to him, AR said he was down having talks with Hibs, he was then taken to ER to have these talks, its now obvious that these talks didn't go too good, money being the problem.
As from this season Andy, Hibs are paying not the best wages which will make it hard to bring in players like Rooney or any decent quality.
Wee will be shopping in cost- cutters now, the goods in lidil are too pricey now. :greengrin
ICT are offering AR a good wage, more than Hibs are, ICT are making him there highest paid player in the clubs history if he agrees to stay with them, another good season or half from AR up there and ICT will cash in and get a good fee for him.
I dont think Hibs will be able to even match these wages never mind better them. :aok:

I just cannot understand how this could possibly be the case - ICT pull in less than 40% of the crowds that Hibs do (and that's in a good year for them and a dreadful year for us). Ergo Hibs' top earners should by rights be on at least twice as much as ICT's.
Otherwise either ICT are paying out more than twice as much as they can afford OR the Hibs fans are NOT being given value for money.

[BEEJ]

I just cannot understand how this could possibly be the case - ICT pull in less than 40% of the crowds that Hibs do (and that's in a good year for them and a dreadful year for us). Ergo Hibs' top earners should by rights be on at least twice as much as ICT's.

Otherwise either ICT are paying out more than twice as much as they can afford OR the Hibs fans are NOT being given value for money.
As on previous occasions when such apparent scenarios have merged, if true it will boil down to the flexibility each Manager has to use his player budget as he deems appropriate.

[basehibby]

As on previous occasions when such apparent scenarios have merged, if true it will boil down to the flexibility each Manager has to use his player budget as he deems appropriate.

NOT happy if that's the case - it's the manager's remit to know the value of players to the team - noone elses IMO - case in point would be Ermenko at Killie last season - had a massive impact on the team and their season - don't know what his wage was but think it would be safe to assume it was substantially higher than his teammates.

[Kaiser1962]

NOT happy if that's the case - it's the manager's remit to know the value of players to the team - noone elses IMO - case in point would be Ermenko at Killie last season - had a massive impact on the team and their season - don't know what his wage was but think it would be safe to assume it was substantially higher than his teammates.

You would think that but Harry Redknap recently said on TV he has no idea what anyone at Spurs earns. He might know what he gets though.

Killie did ok this season and Ermenko was a key player for them. Reputedly on £20k a week in Moscow but has been freed so lets see where he ends up. Sammon did well to after a number of seasons of relative mediocrity and went as soon as the big bucks came calling.

[basehibby]

You would think that but Harry Redknap recently said on TV he has no idea what anyone at Spurs earns. He might know what he gets though.

Ach well - as Manuel the waiter was wont to say - Hi Hknow Hnaaateeeng!

[HibbyAndy]

As Scoopyboy said Andy, Hibs had Rooney at EM for a look around in January, i know this because a player was in getting treatment the same day and spoke to him, AR said he was down having talks with Hibs, he was then taken to ER to have these talks, its now obvious that these talks didn't go too good, money being the problem.
As from this season Andy, Hibs are paying not the best wages which will make it hard to bring in players like Rooney or any decent quality.
Wee will be shopping in cost- cutters now, the goods in lidil are too pricey now. :greengrin
ICT are offering AR a good wage, more than Hibs are, ICT are making him there highest paid player in the clubs history if he agrees to stay with them, another good season or half from AR up there and ICT will cash in and get a good fee for him.
I dont think Hibs will be able to even match these wages never mind better them. :aok:


Cheers for the insight mate :aok:

[BEEJ]

NOT happy if that's the case - it's the manager's remit to know the value of players to the team - noone elses IMO - case in point would be Ermenko at Killie last season - had a massive impact on the team and their season - don't know what his wage was but think it would be safe to assume it was substantially higher than his teammates.
:agree: Very good example.

Mixu more or less stated in a press interview last autumn that he would not have been able to bring a player like that to ER when he was in charge at Hibs.

[KeithTheHibby]

As Scoopyboy said Andy, Hibs had Rooney at EM for a look around in January, i know this because a player was in getting treatment the same day and spoke to him, AR said he was down having talks with Hibs, he was then taken to ER to have these talks, its now obvious that these talks didn't go too good, money being the problem.
As from this season Andy, Hibs are paying not the best wages which will make it hard to bring in players like Rooney or any decent quality.
Wee will be shopping in cost- cutters now, the goods in lidil are too pricey now. :greengrin
ICT are offering AR a good wage, more than Hibs are, ICT are making him there highest paid player in the clubs history if he agrees to stay with them, another good season or half from AR up there and ICT will cash in and get a good fee for him.
I dont think Hibs will be able to even match these wages never mind better them. :aok:

Cheers for the info SH although it does make depressing reading when we can't match Inverness on wages for certain players.

Quite embarrassing in fact.

[brog]

IMO & recognising, despite the good track record of many posters, that much of this remains speculation, that Rooney is a perfect example of where we should be prepared to speculate to accumulate. We did it with our home grown players, eg Brown, Fletch etc where we improved & extended their contracts but gave them the nod that we would sell them on at right time. Result a win/win with Hibs getting £8million for those 2 alone.
Of course it was JC who almost had to drag RP to the table to do these deals & I doubt RP has either the nerve or the acumen to part with money up front & pay a large wage to secure Rooney despite his obvious potential sell-on value. Rooney is raw & he's no Fletch but he's got pace & strength & is rapidly improving. My fear is we'll end up with a couple of journeymen with no obvious growth potential but perhaps Rod will prove me wrong!

[Ernie Cobra]

Simple fact of the mattewr is NOT ONE OF YOU know whether he has signed or not and its all conjecture , back biting and attempts at one upmanship....frankly i am pished right off at our lack of activity and complete diregard for us the paying fan. If more more person tells me "but we've got Ivan back" i think i will smack them in the puss where they stand. GET A ****IN GRIP!!!! This board is taking the pash again, Can anyone name me one player to get excited about next year?

Thank the lord i never bought a season ticket for next year!

[scoopyboy]

Simple fact of the mattewr is NOT ONE OF YOU know whether he has signed or not and its all conjecture , back biting and attempts at one upmanship....frankly i am pished right off at our lack of activity and complete diregard for us the paying fan. If more more person tells me "but we've got Ivan back" i think i will smack them in the puss where they stand. GET A ****IN GRIP!!!! This board is taking the pash again, Can anyone name me one player to get excited about next year?

Thank the lord i never bought a season ticket for next year!

Callum Booth

I thank the lord you haven't as well. Bad enough the depressed posters on here without having to listen to them at the games as well.

[Capt Mainwaring]

Simple fact of the mattewr is NOT ONE OF YOU know whether he has signed or not and its all conjecture , back biting and attempts at one upmanship....frankly i am pished right off at our lack of activity and complete diregard for us the paying fan. If more more person tells me "but we've got Ivan back" i think i will smack them in the puss where they stand. GET A ****IN GRIP!!!! This board is taking the pash again, Can anyone name me one player to get excited about next year?

Thank the lord i never bought a season ticket for next year!

Maybe there would be more activity if more people kept the faith and bought a Season Ticket:dunno:

[HibsMax]

Simple fact of the mattewr is NOT ONE OF YOU know whether he has signed or not and its all conjecture , back biting and attempts at one upmanship....frankly i am pished right off at our lack of activity and complete diregard for us the paying fan. If more more person tells me "but we've got Ivan back" i think i will smack them in the puss where they stand. GET A ****IN GRIP!!!! This board is taking the pash again, Can anyone name me one player to get excited about next year?

Thank the lord i never bought a season ticket for next year!
Oh the irony. LOL.

By the way, we got Ivan back. Let me know when you're in Boston.

Board taking the pash again? Oh dear. What a terrible state of affairs our club is in. I haven't checked the league table but you're probably right.....I bet we're in last place! :(

[HibsMax]

Cheers for the info SH although it does make depressing reading when we can't match Inverness on wages for certain players.

Quite embarrassing in fact.

There is a difference between CAN'T match Inverness and WON'T match Inverness. There's no need to be depressed or embarrassed. Maybe, one day, when all the facts come out....if they come out, we'll find out why AR didn't sign with Hibs. Maybe we should wait until he actually signs with someone else before reaching for the razor blades though.

[truehibernian]

Simple fact of the mattewr is NOT ONE OF YOU know whether he has signed or not and its all conjecture , back biting and attempts at one upmanship....frankly i am pished right off at our lack of activity and complete diregard for us the paying fan. If more more person tells me "but we've got Ivan back" i think i will smack them in the puss where they stand. GET A ****IN GRIP!!!! This board is taking the pash again, Can anyone name me one player to get excited about next year?

Thank the lord i never bought a season ticket for next year!

Callum Booth

I thank the lord you haven't as well. Bad enough the depressed posters on here without having to listen to them at the games as well.

With all my fingers and toes crossed, a rabbits foot and a four leaf clover.........Sean Welsh too. Really hope he hits the pre-season running, literally.......he is a top prospect if he stays injury free and gets a run of games.

Despite all the doom and gloom, there is still loads to look forward to and players will come to Hibs. As long as CC is here, for me, it's onwards and upwards.

[Love the Green]

Oh the irony. LOL.

By the way, we got Ivan back. Let me know when you're in Boston.

Board taking the pash again? Oh dear. What a terrible state of affairs our club is in. I haven't checked the league table but you're probably right.....I bet we're in last place! :(

Stop being an ******** the guy is right the board are and have been for some time now taking the pish....

"keep the faith":wink:

[Ernie Cobra]

Simple fact of the mattewr is NOT ONE OF YOU know whether he has signed or not and its all conjecture , back biting and attempts at one upmanship....frankly i am pished right off at our lack of activity and complete diregard for us the paying fan. If more more person tells me "but we've got Ivan back" i think i will smack them in the puss where they stand. GET A ****IN GRIP!!!! This board is taking the pash again, Can anyone name me one player to get excited about next year?

Thank the lord i never bought a season ticket for next year!

Callum Booth

I thank the lord you haven't as well. Bad enough the depressed posters on here without having to listen to them at the games as well.

Oh well thats put me right back in my box! Let me just find my credit card! If that is the best we are clinging to for the whole of next season i can guarantee you crowds will be far less than they were at the tail end of last season. So purely from a financial point of view or the club as a business, the board have failed dramatically to please thier investors......IE. US!!!

[scoopyboy]

Oh well thats put me right back in my box! Let me just find my credit card! If that is the best we are clinging to for the whole of next season i can guarantee you crowds will be far less than they were at the tail end of last season. So purely from a financial point of view or the club as a business, the board have failed dramatically to please thier investors......IE. US!!!

I suppose I asked for that, I was expecting worse.

Callum Booth?

[Ernie Cobra]

Oh the irony. LOL.

By the way, we got Ivan back. Let me know when you're in Boston.

Board taking the pash again? Oh dear. What a terrible state of affairs our club is in. I haven't checked the league table but you're probably right.....I bet we're in last place! :(


hahahahaha.....what a donut you are.......and yes the board are taking the pash, but you'll know what state the team is in from all the games you attend......another keyboard know all uber hibee!

[Ernie Cobra]

I suppose I asked for that, I was expecting worse.

Callum Booth?


Looking forward to seeing Callum, but dont tell me you are eagerly anticipating next season scoopy....not even the most die hard blinkered hibby can say that surely (an i used to condsider myself in that category)

[scoopyboy]

Looking forward to seeing Callum, but dont tell me you are eagerly anticipating next season scoopy....not even the most die hard blinkered hibby can say that surely (an i used to condsider myself in that category)

Not at this moment, I am getting frustrated as well.

Hibs cannot go into next season with only Sodje up front so strikers (probably 3) will have to be signed.

I'm hoping Callum will be exciting as well as progressing, have reasonable hope for Welsh and Galbraith. He won't be classed as exciting but I'm expecting Paul Hanlon to show continued improvement.

Come the start of the League however I'm sure I'll be high as a kite, even at my age.

[Alfred E Newman]

[/B]

Maybe there would be more activity if more people kept the faith and bought a Season Ticket:dunno:

I`ve renewed my ticket but I wouldn`t criticise anyone who hasn`t. There is little coming out of Easter Road at the moment to give us cause for optimism.

[Kaiser1962]

Oh well thats put me right back in my box! Let me just find my credit card! If that is the best we are clinging to for the whole of next season i can guarantee you crowds will be far less than they were at the tail end of last season. So purely from a financial point of view or the club as a business, the board have failed dramatically to please thier investors......IE. US!!!

If you but a ticket you are a customer.

If you have shares you are an investor :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

[QUOTE=Ernie Cobra;2826071][/[/B]QUOTE]

We're customers :greengrin

Speaking for myself, i will NEVER be a 'customer' at Hibs. That reduces it to a mere financial transaction. Its more than that, surely?

[Saorsa]

Maybe there would be more activity if more people kept the faith and bought a Season Ticket:dunno:Aye, we keep hearing that though, how many years are people supposed tae just blindly keep the faith and keep throwing their money at Hibs and watching pish, before anything changes. I've renewed but another season like last one and I'll be reconsidering next time round. I certainly dinnae blame anybody for not renewing, we've being going downhill for years and something needs tae be done tae stop the rot.

[KeithTheHibby]

Not at this moment, I am getting frustrated as well.Hibs cannot go into next season with only Sodje up front so strikers (probably 3) will have to be signed.

I'm hoping Callum will be exciting as well as progressing, have reasonable hope for Welsh and Galbraith. He won't be classed as exciting but I'm expecting Paul Hanlon to show continued improvement.

Come the start of the League however I'm sure I'll be high as a kite, even at my age.

Pretty much sums it up for me. I get up every day and check hibs.net around 10am in the hope that we have actually signed someone!

I know that we will and will be happy when it does happen however I can't help but think that other clubs have stole a march on us when it comes to getting players in.

I also think the lack of progress in the transfer market is hindering our ability to tempt supporters to part with cash for a season ticket.

[Ernie Cobra]

If you but a ticket you are a customer.

If you have shares you are an investor :greengrin

Have Shares that were bought during HOH, not ticket this season though:wink:

And on the financial transaction side, Hibs are a passion for most of us, but the board dont share that i feel, hence the financial comparison. Cold Clinical and without feeling or passion is how our "business" is ran. Some may think this is a good thing, and that is thier right, i have decided to treat it the same way and will therfor pcik and choose when i give them my money. Will still be 100% behind whatever team troops onto the park.

[HibsMax]

I`ve renewed my ticket but I wouldn`t criticise anyone who hasn`t. There is little coming out of Easter Road at the moment to give us cause for optimism.

While I agree with you (there is NOTHING coming out of ER) I think there is still reason to be somewhat optimistic. MANY posters on here were crying out for practically the whole team to be emptied and much of that has already happened. I appreciate that people want new players IN but getting rid of the flotsam and jetsam is surely part of the process?

[silverhibee]

Simple fact of the mattewr is NOT ONE OF YOU know whether he has signed or not and its all conjecture , back biting and attempts at one upmanship....frankly i am pished right off at our lack of activity and complete diregard for us the paying fan. If more more person tells me "but we've got Ivan back" i think i will smack them in the puss where they stand. GET A ****IN GRIP!!!! This board is taking the pash again, Can anyone name me one player to get excited about next year?

Thank the lord i never bought a season ticket for next year!


But wee have got Ivan back. :aok:

[sahib]

Cheers for the info SH although it does make depressing reading when we can't match Inverness on wages for certain players.

Quite embarrassing in fact.

I am not saying anyone is wrong about the Rooney negotiations but maybe the manager wanted him but not at any price. Calderwood may not have been too pleased if he was told that we had got Rooney but the whole budget had been blown. We have a lot of positions to fill, if we were only replacing Riordan then Hibs could have gone for their man balls out.

[Kaiser1962]

[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2826093]

Speaking for myself, i will NEVER be a 'customer' at Hibs. That reduces it to a mere financial transaction. Its more than that, surely?


Have Shares that were bought during HOH, not ticket this season though:wink:

And on the financial transaction side, Hibs are a passion for most of us, but the board dont share that i feel, hence the financial comparison. Cold Clinical and without feeling or passion is how our "business" is ran. Some may think this is a good thing, and that is thier right, i have decided to treat it the same way and will therfor pcik and choose when i give them my money. Will still be 100% behind whatever team troops onto the park.

I was being truly pedantic guys :greengrin

[HibsMax]

Aye, we keep hearing that though, how many years are people supposed tae just blindly keep the faith and keep throwing their money at Hibs and watching pish, before anything changes. I've renewed but another season like last one and I'll be reconsidering next time round. I certainly dinnae blame anybody for not renewing, we've being going downhill for years and something needs tae be done tae stop the rot.

How many years? Until you die. If you don't like the "pish" that is on display, find another team. Obviously I'm not being serious about that last bit but that's really how it works. Teams have good spells and bad spells. It makes perfect sense that we would like to witness a good spell and maybe that will happen. Maybe not. I would wager that most people support Hibs not because of their achievements in our / my lifetime but for reasons deeper than that.

Football teams have us over a barrel because unlike other products (that's what Hibs are) we are unlikely to change allegiance. If you buy a certain brand of beer that you take a dislike to, you change without giving it a second's thought e.g., you dump Budweiser and switch to Heineken. It's unlikely that you are going to go through life drinking or eating something that you dislike. You love BMWs but then they make some changes to their 3-series that you don't like, you switch to Audi. That doesn't really happen in football unless we're talking about kids who (sometimes) change team from one season to the next.

So to answer your question again, you keep paying until you drop dead or you lose interest in football / Hibs.

[new malkyhib]

How many years? Until you die. If you don't like the "pish" that is on display, find another team. Obviously I'm not being serious about that last bit but that's really how it works. Teams have good spells and bad spells. It makes perfect sense that we would like to witness a good spell and maybe that will happen. Maybe not. I would wager that most people support Hibs not because of their achievements in our / my lifetime but for reasons deeper than that.

Football teams have us over a barrel because unlike other products (that's what Hibs are) we are unlikely to change allegiance. If you buy a certain brand of beer that you take a dislike to, you change without giving it a second's thought e.g., you dump Budweiser and switch to Heineken. It's unlikely that you are going to go through life drinking or eating something that you dislike. You love BMWs but then they make some changes to their 3-series that you don't like, you switch to Audi. That doesn't really happen in football unless we're talking about kids who (sometimes) change team from one season to the next.

So to answer your question again, you keep paying until you drop dead or you lose interest in football / Hibs.


Great post - but unllike other "products" there is a sense of ownership with the club you support.

It would seem that some on here think our highly-paid Board are "untouchable" and beyond criticism, when in fact they patently aren't. They just give the impression a lot of the time that they think they are.

[sunshine1875]

How many years? Until you die. If you don't like the "pish" that is on display, find another team. Obviously I'm not being serious about that last bit but that's really how it works. Teams have good spells and bad spells. It makes perfect sense that we would like to witness a good spell and maybe that will happen. Maybe not. I would wager that most people support Hibs not because of their achievements in our / my lifetime but for reasons deeper than that.

Football teams have us over a barrel because unlike other products (that's what Hibs are) we are unlikely to change allegiance. If you buy a certain brand of beer that you take a dislike to, you change without giving it a second's thought e.g., you dump Budweiser and switch to Heineken. It's unlikely that you are going to go through life drinking or eating something that you dislike. You love BMWs but then they make some changes to their 3-series that you don't like, you switch to Audi. That doesn't really happen in football unless we're talking about kids who (sometimes) change team from one season to the next.

So to answer your question again, you keep paying until you drop dead or you lose interest in football / Hibs.

What a sensible comment! Enjoy the good times when they come, because the bad times are always around the corner!

[Capt Mainwaring]

Aye, we keep hearing that though, how many years are people supposed tae just blindly keep the faith and keep throwing their money at Hibs and watching pish, before anything changes. I've renewed but another season like last one and I'll be reconsidering next time round. I certainly dinnae blame anybody for not renewing, we've being going downhill for years and something needs tae be done tae stop the rot.

I agree, but we don't have an owner who "throws money at Hibs", and were not sitting on piles of cash. So with the limited amount of TV and commercial income available - where do you think the cash will come from?

[Saorsa]

How many years? Until you die. If you don't like the "pish" that is on display, find another team. Obviously I'm not being serious about that last bit but that's really how it works. Teams have good spells and bad spells. It makes perfect sense that we would like to witness a good spell and maybe that will happen. Maybe not. I would wager that most people support Hibs not because of their achievements in our / my lifetime but for reasons deeper than that.

Football teams have us over a barrel because unlike other products (that's what Hibs are) we are unlikely to change allegiance. If you buy a certain brand of beer that you take a dislike to, you change without giving it a second's thought e.g., you dump Budweiser and switch to Heineken. It's unlikely that you are going to go through life drinking or eating something that you dislike. You love BMWs but then they make some changes to their 3-series that you don't like, you switch to Audi. That doesn't really happen in football unless we're talking about kids who (sometimes) change team from one season to the next.

So to answer your question again, you keep paying until you drop dead or you lose interest in football / Hibs.I'm glad you only joking about that bit. I'll never lose interest or my love for Hibs and I doubt those that have stopped going have either but they have probably lost interest in giving money tae this board and I for one dinnae blame them, I'm not far from it either.

You're right it's not all about achievements, if it was most folk, myself included, would have given up long since, it's about the football club. That's what I got hooked on when I started watching Hibs over 30 years ago, and I've seen Hibs win two cups in that time. It was a football club though, not just some business, that's what it feels like now and I'm not surprised a lot of folk cannae get enthusiastic about that. There's a lot of passion from the fans of this club but none whatsoever (if there is it's undetectable) from those that run it. They can hardly complain when folk start acting as customers when all they feel like they are supporting is a business.

[Saorsa]

I agree, but we don't have an owner who "throws money at Hibs", and were not sitting on piles of cash. So with the limited amount of TV and commercial income available - where do you think the cash will come from?IMO they've spent too much elsewhere but that was another discussion and I'm not going round and round that one again.

[Kaiser1962]

I'm glad you only joking about that bit. I'll never lose interest or my love for Hibs and I doubt those that have stopped going have either but they have probably lost interest in giving money tae this board and I for one dinnae blame them, I'm not far from it either.

You're right it's not all about achievements, if it was most folk, myself included, would have given up long since, it's about the football club. That's what I got hooked on when I started watching Hibs over 30 years ago, and I've seen Hibs win two cups in that time. It was a football club though, not just some business, that's what it feels like now and I'm not surprised a lot of folk cannae get enthusiastic about that. There's a lot of passion from the fans of this club but none whatsoever (if there is it's undetectable) from those that run it. They can hardly complain when folk start acting as customers when all they feel like they are supporting is a business.

Thats all fair comment Dan especially the bit in bold. We're all pissed off and frustrated just now but the unfortunate reality is that it is a business. The corinthian spirit is gone from all involved in football except the fans.

[HibsMax]

I'm glad you only joking about that bit. I'll never lose interest or my love for Hibs and I doubt those that have stopped going have either but they have probably lost interest in giving money tae this board and I for one dinnae blame them, I'm not far from it either.

You're right it's not all about achievements, if it was most folk, myself included, would have given up long since, it's about the football club. That's what I got hooked on when I started watching Hibs over 30 years ago, and I've seen Hibs win two cups in that time. It was a football club though, not just some business, that's what it feels like now and I'm not surprised a lot of folk cannae get enthusiastic about that. There's a lot of passion from the fans of this club but none whatsoever (if there is it's undetectable) from those that run it. They can hardly complain when folk start acting as customers when all they feel like they are supporting is a business.

Football is definitely a different beast than it was when you and I started watching Hibs. I know there are many people on here that dislike the idea of Hibs being run as a business first and a football team second but there is no other way to run the club (in my opinion). The money in the game has escalated out of control - that's why there is such a gulf between the good teams and the rest of us (again, my opinion).

I cannot comment about the passion of the board members because I don't know any of them personally.

You're last comment is bang on the money and I only wish I had thought of it first! With Hibs being run as a business and the fans being the ONLY customers, the board really should be thinking of us in those terms and trying to come up with a way to keep their customers happy and loyal. But there's a part of me that acknowledges that they DO know we are their loyal customers which is why they've taken the steps that they have taken to ensure that we stay around for a while more yet. I think it's unfair for people to say that the club has no ambition and doesn't care when they have taken strides to better the club, albeit not on the playing field. If our club genuinely didn't give a f*** about us, we would have a crappy team AND crappy facilities. But we don't. We have GOOD facilities. Why would the board invest in those if they didn't care about us? Why would they not figure out a clever way to syphon off the money into their own offshore bank accounts, flee the country and leave us with nothing at all?

I think the next few seasons will be very telling for us. If you want to try and put a positive spin on it, every beginning starts with an ending. Let's hope that last season was the end of our poor run and next season will be the start of the upturn. If we all agree that there are ups and downs in football then we have to agree that there are periods of time when there is shift in momentum. That's what I am hoping for between now and next season, although I appreciate that a resurgence is going to take more than ONE season.

[Saorsa]

Where did that come from?http://www.marketingweek.co.uk/pictures/web/images/MarketingWeek/20126_476375_f260.jpg

:dunno:

[HibbyAndy]

Thank's for that.

I hope you didn't spend too much time mulling over that brilliant piece of posting.

You must be one proud man tonight.



Pot kettle nah?

Youve got a cheek after your reply to my post earlier.


Brilliant piece of posting indeed.

[son of haggart]

How many years? Until you die. If you don't like the "pish" that is on display, find another team. Obviously I'm not being serious about that last bit but that's really how it works. Teams have good spells and bad spells. It makes perfect sense that we would like to witness a good spell and maybe that will happen. Maybe not. I would wager that most people support Hibs not because of their achievements in our / my lifetime but for reasons deeper than that.

Football teams have us over a barrel because unlike other products (that's what Hibs are) we are unlikely to change allegiance. If you buy a certain brand of beer that you take a dislike to, you change without giving it a second's thought e.g., you dump Budweiser and switch to Heineken. It's unlikely that you are going to go through life drinking or eating something that you dislike. You love BMWs but then they make some changes to their 3-series that you don't like, you switch to Audi. That doesn't really happen in football unless we're talking about kids who (sometimes) change team from one season to the next.

So to answer your question again, you keep paying until you drop dead or you lose interest in football / Hibs.



That's an excellent post.

I'll be Hearts till I die. But what does happen is that 'diehard' fans do drift away from the game.

I have an unusual perspective, having been out of Edinburgh, in London, for nearly 30 years. I have been going back up all that time - varying between 3 and 10 times a year (marriage and kids lowering it to 3 ), and going to miost european and pre-season friendly games (easier to get to and more fun)

In that time I have always gone to the pub (which has shfted iver the years fron the Tynie Arms, to Luckies, to Stratties) before the game where the season ticket holding mates of my scholdays have gathered pre match. There are about 8 of them - from portobello school where it was hard to be a Hearts fan in the 60s/ 70s

Of them 3 have fallen away - one of them a mate since I was 3 at nursery and someone who I thought we be a season ticket holder till his death - just fed up with the boredom and inevitability fo scottish fitba. I don't blame any of them - they have paid full whack for thirty years despite earning far less than me in most cases. I am not sure I would have stuck with it in the dire years of the early 90s or the disappointments of the late Robinson period and Burley sacking periods. Also when we won a trophy for the first time in 40 years something of the challenge went with it ("this time, it WILL be our year" - it will be interesting to see what happens for the 50's and 60's born hibees when you do win it, as inevitably you must some time..).

My mates may still support the team 'evermore' but that no longer translates to turning up or paying cash that could feed the kids or fuel the car...

[sahib]

That's an excellent post.

I'll be Hearts till I die. But what does happen is that 'diehard' fans do drift away from the game.

I have an unusual perspective, having been out of Edinburgh, in London, for nearly 30 years. I have been going back up all that time - varying between 3 and 10 times a year (marriage and kids lowering it to 3 ), and going to miost european and pre-season friendly games (easier to get to and more fun)

In that time I have always gone to the pub (which has shfted iver the years fron the Tynie Arms, to Luckies, to Stratties) before the game where the season ticket holding mates of my scholdays have gathered pre match. There are about 8 of them - from portobello school where it was hard to be a Hearts fan in the 60s/ 70s

Of them 3 have fallen away - one of them a mate since I was 3 at nursery and someone who I thought we be a season ticket holder till his death - just fed up with the boredom and inevitability fo scottish fitba. I don't blame any of them - they have paid full whack for thirty years despite earning far less than me in most cases. I am not sure I would have stuck with it in the dire years of the early 90s or the disappointments of the late Robinson period and Burley sacking periods. Also when we won a trophy for the first time in 40 years something of the challenge went with it ("this time, it WILL be our year" - it will be interesting to see what happens for the 50's and 60's born hibees when you do win it, as inevitably you must some time..).

My mates may still support the team 'evermore' but that no longer translates to turning up or paying cash that could feed the kids or fuel the car...

You never had eight mates at school.:greengrin

[son of haggart]

You never had eight mates at school.:greengrin

Ha Ha

Were you there then?

[sahib]

Ha Ha

Were you there then?

Yes, but let's not bore everyone.:greengrin

[Ernie Cobra]

Football is definitely a different beast than it was when you and I started watching Hibs. I know there are many people on here that dislike the idea of Hibs being run as a business first and a football team second but there is no other way to run the club (in my opinion). The money in the game has escalated out of control - that's why there is such a gulf between the good teams and the rest of us (again, my opinion).

I cannot comment about the passion of the board members because I don't know any of them personally.

You're last comment is bang on the money and I only wish I had thought of it first! With Hibs being run as a business and the fans being the ONLY customers, the board really should be thinking of us in those terms and trying to come up with a way to keep their customers happy and loyal. But there's a part of me that acknowledges that they DO know we are their loyal customers which is why they've taken the steps that they have taken to ensure that we stay around for a while more yet. I think it's unfair for people to say that the club has no ambition and doesn't care when they have taken strides to better the club, albeit not on the playing field. If our club genuinely didn't give a f*** about us, we would have a crappy team AND crappy facilities. But we don't. We have GOOD facilities. Why would the board invest in those if they didn't care about us? Why would they not figure out a clever way to syphon off the money into their own offshore bank accounts, flee the country and leave us with nothing at all?

I think the next few seasons will be very telling for us. If you want to try and put a positive spin on it, every beginning starts with an ending. Let's hope that last season was the end of our poor run and next season will be the start of the upturn. If we all agree that there are ups and downs in football then we have to agree that there are periods of time when there is shift in momentum. That's what I am hoping for between now and next season, although I appreciate that a resurgence is going to take more than ONE season.


taking our previous posts out of the equation, i still cannot agree with you, the last how many seasons have been the beginning of "a new hibs". Until we step up to the mark as a board and put the team on the pitch that we deserve as fans, its nothing but bull****, we laughed at the hertz for years for being lemmings, following blindly into oblivion (might be a bit harsh for us) but how far do we go before we are nothing more than motherwell, dundee or some other bog standard team. Fact is, for me, Hibs are a huge part of my life, i give them extreme loyalty, i want some in return!

[scoopyboy]

Pot kettle nah?

Youve got a cheek after your reply to my post earlier.


Brilliant piece of posting indeed.

Another negative post from you.

Do you ever actually post anything of interest, it seems to me you do nothing but run peoples info down.

There were several accurate posts yesterday that you dismissed in a nano second.

[stokesmessiah]

Another negative post from you.

Do you ever actually post anything of interest, it seems to me you do nothing but run peoples info down.

There were several accurate posts yesterday that you dismissed in a nano second.

:agree:

[Bostonhibby]

That's an excellent post.

I'll be Hearts till I die. But what does happen is that 'diehard' fans do drift away from the game.

I have an unusual perspective, having been out of Edinburgh, in London, for nearly 30 years. I have been going back up all that time - varying between 3 and 10 times a year (marriage and kids lowering it to 3 ), and going to miost european and pre-season friendly games (easier to get to and more fun)

In that time I have always gone to the pub (which has shfted iver the years fron the Tynie Arms, to Luckies, to Stratties) before the game where the season ticket holding mates of my scholdays have gathered pre match. There are about 8 of them - from portobello school where it was hard to be a Hearts fan in the 60s/ 70s

Of them 3 have fallen away - one of them a mate since I was 3 at nursery and someone who I thought we be a season ticket holder till his death - just fed up with the boredom and inevitability fo scottish fitba. I don't blame any of them - they have paid full whack for thirty years despite earning far less than me in most cases. I am not sure I would have stuck with it in the dire years of the early 90s or the disappointments of the late Robinson period and Burley sacking periods. Also when we won a trophy for the first time in 40 years something of the challenge went with it ("this time, it WILL be our year" - it will be interesting to see what happens for the 50's and 60's born hibees when you do win it, as inevitably you must some time..).

My mates may still support the team 'evermore' but that no longer translates to turning up or paying cash that could feed the kids or fuel the car...

I find myself strangely identifying with this post, swap Hibs for Hearts, the pubs for classier places :wink: and allowing for age its me, Porty was more of a Hibby school in the late 70's too.

[smurf]

I find myself strangely identifying with this post, swap Hibs for Hearts, the pubs for classier places :wink: and allowing for age its me, Porty was more of a Hibby school in the late 70's too.

And was a Hibby school in the late 80's too!

[HibsMax]

taking our previous posts out of the equation, i still cannot agree with you, the last how many seasons have been the beginning of "a new hibs". Until we step up to the mark as a board and put the team on the pitch that we deserve as fans, its nothing but bull****, we laughed at the hertz for years for being lemmings, following blindly into oblivion (might be a bit harsh for us) but how far do we go before we are nothing more than motherwell, dundee or some other bog standard team. Fact is, for me, Hibs are a huge part of my life, i give them extreme loyalty, i want some in return!

The reason I think this beginning is different, or could be different, is because we don't have any of the distractions we've had in the recent past e.g., East Main and East Stand. I think that without these costly distractions Hibs WILL be able to think about putting a better team on the pitch. If things don't change over the next couple of years then I'll need to reevaluate my stance.

[MontrealHibs]

The reason I think this beginning is different, or could be different, is because we don't have any of the distractions we've had in the recent past e.g., East Main and East Stand. I think that without these costly distractions Hibs WILL be able to think about putting a better team on the pitch. If things don't change over the next couple of years then I'll need to reevaluate my stance.

We did borrow to pay for the East though did we not? Therefore I am expecting an impact. I also expect at least 2,000 less season ticket holders based on all the disenters on here!

[dangermouse]

I find myself strangely identifying with this post, swap Hibs for Hearts, the pubs for classier places :wink: and allowing for age its me, Porty was more of a Hibby school in the late 70's too.

Porty High School. There's a blast from the past. Going by your age we must have been there at the same time.

[HibsMax]

We did borrow to pay for the East though did we not? Therefore I am expecting an impact. I also expect at least 2,000 less season ticket holders based on all the disenters on here!

I expect an impact too.

While season ticket sales might be down, when we start winning next season we will see a dramatic rise in walk-up punters. :wink:

I haven't seen much this off-season to explain my irrational "we'll start winning" thoughts but I think it will happen. I really can't see us starting next season the same way as we finished this season. Even if we have the exact same players in place I would expect a difference because I've seen it with my own eyes - the same team of players performing better / worse from one season to the next.

[Houchy]

I'm just fed up with the fact that we have been a "team in transition" for about the last 4 years. We all thought (or at least I thought) that after the East Stand was completed and East mains was built that money would be spent improving the team. There is still no sign of this happening (in any grand scale anyway) and while I understand the boards "every penny we get from season tickets will be spent on the team", I cannot make myself spend money and risk having to watch what I just have for the last 9 months.

I would have thought that they could entice us, by using the wages freed up by players leaving, to sign at least 1 player in a "this is what we'll do if you buy season tickets" but so farPetrie has shown his short arms, deep pockets syndrome and people are finding themselves in the same position as me... reluctant to go jumping in blindly on the basis that we will sign decent quality players. Not world beaters but enough to challenge for 3rd spot.:agree:

[J-C]

I'm just fed up with the fact that we have been a "team in transition" for about the last 4 years. We all thought (or at least I thought) that after the East Stand was completed and East mains was built that money would be spent improving the team. There is still no sign of this happening (in any grand scale anyway) and while I understand the boards "every penny we get from season tickets will be spent on the team", I cannot make myself spend money and risk having to watch what I just have for the last 9 months.

I would have thought that they could entice us, by using the wages freed up by players leaving, to sign at least 1 player in a "this is what we'll do if you buy season tickets" but so farPetrie has shown his short arms, deep pockets syndrome and people are finding themselves in the same position as me... reluctant to go jumping in blindly on the basis that we will sign decent quality players. Not world beaters but enough to challenge for 3rd spot.:agree:

Do you not think that a fair amount has been spent, Riordan,Stokes, Miller etc but unfortunately a hellova lot has been spent on dross, this has been the main problem at ER, far too many wage thieves taking money for doing nowt. we've got rid of around 10 average players, lets hope they're replaced with 5 decent ones.

[Lucius Apuleius]

I'm just fed up with the fact that we have been a "team in transition" for about the last 4 years. We all thought (or at least I thought) that after the East Stand was completed and East mains was built that money would be spent improving the team. There is still no sign of this happening (in any grand scale anyway) and while I understand the boards "every penny we get from season tickets will be spent on the team", I cannot make myself spend money and risk having to watch what I just have for the last 9 months.

I would have thought that they could entice us, by using the wages freed up by players leaving, to sign at least 1 player in a "this is what we'll do if you buy season tickets" but so farPetrie has shown his short arms, deep pockets syndrome and people are finding themselves in the same position as me... reluctant to go jumping in blindly on the basis that we will sign decent quality players. Not world beaters but enough to challenge for 3rd spot.:agree:

It is the first season with the new stand. This will be the first season with more money I hope. patience mate. The good times are a coming.

[Houchy]

Do you not think that a fair amount has been spent, Riordan,Stokes, Miller etc but unfortunately a hellova lot has been spent on dross, this has been the main problem at ER, far too many wage thieves taking money for doing nowt. we've got rid of around 10 average players, lets hope they're replaced with 5 decent ones.

Totally agree with this second part 100%

Yes, we spent a lot in wages on these players but with DR and AS no longer on the payroll, surely their wages could have been used to bring in a good player to kick start the feelgood factor and therefore shifting season tickets, rather than say to people "you need to buy season tickets before we show our hand".

For too long, I, like others, have thrown my hard earned cash hoping that this will be our year and that after selling the family silver, we'll finally be at the stage where money is released into the playing staff without us being "blackmailed" into buying season tickets.

I don't know about anyone else, but i'm more likely to do something of my own accord rather than being backed into a corner.

[Houchy]

It is the first season with the new stand. This will be the first season with more money I hope. patience mate. The good times are a coming.

Fingers crossed eh.:agree: