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johnrebus
05-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Given the direct choice of entry to a British League for Scottish clubs but with the likely demise of the Scottish national football team, I think a fair few people - myself included - would delighted to go along with that.

Our international side has been an embarrassment for years , so what would be the big deal?

Watching a crap National side every six months or so, or playing in a British League with a financially level playing field, every week?

You decide.

SteveHFC
05-06-2011, 09:23 PM
No

Twa Cairpets
05-06-2011, 09:30 PM
Given the direct choice of entry to a British League for Scottish clubs but with the likely demise of the Scottish national football team, I think a fair few people - myself included - would delighted to go along with that.

Our international side has been an embarrassment for years , so what would be the big deal?

Watching a crap National side every six months or so, or playing in a British League with a financially level playing field, every week?

You decide.

Yeh, great plan.

Sink into oblivion in the equivalent of the Championship, with maybe the occasional dip up or down, playing in a set up with clubs who are financially in a completely different league. Level playing field my erky.

Fair salivating a the prospect of menaingless end of season games v Peterborough and Doncaster.

Sir David Gray
05-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Yeh, great plan.

Sink into oblivion in the equivalent of the Championship, with maybe the occasional dip up or down, playing in a set up with clubs who are financially in a completely different league. Level playing field my erky.

Fair salivating a the prospect of menaingless end of season games v Peterborough and Doncaster.

Why wouldn't we be in the same league, in a financial sense, as those clubs in the Championship if we were in their league and receiving the same income from TV etc?

What happens, though, if we eventually become independent? Presumably we would then need to withdraw from the British league and set up the SPL again. :dunno:

There's no way the English would go for that anyway. What would be in it for them?

woody47
05-06-2011, 09:40 PM
No way. We are a nation in our own right and as such we should sort our own affairs.
What is needed is for the suits in the SFA to stop pandering to the unfirm and a more even split of the revenue from TV rights etc for starters. And how about restricting a no more than 2 non-Scottish players in each team. That way we would be forced to bring on our youngsters and as such make Scottish footnball a force again.

lucky
05-06-2011, 09:56 PM
UK every day of the week.

Saorsa
05-06-2011, 09:58 PM
I'll never ever support a team in a British league or a British national team

SteveHFC
05-06-2011, 11:18 PM
I'll never ever support a team in a British league or a British national team

:agree:

HibeeMG
05-06-2011, 11:22 PM
I cannot believe the amount of people who are for a British team at the expense of our league.

Yes, our league is rubbish and a move to the English leagues would generate more money for us in the long run but we cannot even consider losing our footballing history because of it.

At the time of voting, I did not for one second believe I would be the casting vote from 27 people. Some people should be ashamed! :no way::tsk tsk:

Calvin
05-06-2011, 11:47 PM
I would love a British league. From a Hibs perspective, the only negative is that we would probably never play in Europe again which is a shame for a club like us, but I would happily sacrifice two games every five years for a much more enjoyable season playing more varied teams in a more interesting league.

As far as losing our national team, that would also be a shame but our league situation up here is that poor that I think it is worth it. It's easy for me to say though as I'm not particularly bothered about our national team currently. Why would a British league even affect our agreement with Fifa?

Leishy1995
06-06-2011, 12:00 AM
Name a team that generates a better feeling/atmosphere at any stadium they play in that our national side, we don't need a trumpet for it and England have never produced a good atmosphere. Just sit tight in the SPL and when the football gets better in our league we will be happy. I would LOVE to see Manchester United 8-0 hibs instead of an almost expected good performance against one of the two old firm sides.

soupy
06-06-2011, 05:05 AM
Given the direct choice of entry to a British League for Scottish clubs but with the likely demise of the Scottish national football team, I think a fair few people - myself included - would delighted to go along with that.

Our international side has been an embarrassment for years , so what would be the big deal?

Watching a crap National side every six months or so, or playing in a British League with a financially level playing field, every week?

You decide.

Na, get a grip!!!!

Gettin' Auld
06-06-2011, 06:43 AM
No chance...........

sahib
06-06-2011, 07:12 AM
No chance...........

Yes for me. The only drawback is the high and always rising cost of transport. The Scottish team is not worth considering, in my opinion, but it's demise would be by no means certain. A tartan shortbread tin and grannies heilan hame mentallity should not be allowed to hold us back.

Gettin' Auld
06-06-2011, 07:46 AM
Yes for me. The only drawback is the high and always rising cost of transport. The Scottish team is not worth considering, in my opinion, but it's demise would be by no means certain. A tartan shortbread tin and grannies heilan hame mentallity should not be allowed to hold us back.
Do you think the engurlanders will feel the same about possibly losing their national team too, for the sake of a British league?

Steve20
06-06-2011, 07:53 AM
I've been saying for ages that a British league would be the best way forward (for us, not the English). The Scottish Leagues are boring and getting worse every year.

The demise of the International side would be a little bit of a shame for those who still watch them. However, Scotland are not going to a major tournament anytime soon, so it would hardly be a terrible loss.

Ritchie
06-06-2011, 08:11 AM
i'd sacrifice my own mother if it meant hibs would be a part of something other than the rank rotten SPL.

southern hibby
06-06-2011, 08:12 AM
I live down south and looked into something along the same lines several years back when the infirm were on about joining the Premiershipand basically.

Any team can join any league within the British Isles. However you would have to join at the lowest level and work your way up as it would cause unrest in the lower league that your team are allowed into a higher league position than them.

If these teams complained to Uefa and it was upheld that a breach of rules had been breached then the Host country in this case England could be removed from European compitions for anything up to 5 years.

It takes roughly 2 years to apply for the new country and roughly 2 years to put your notice in with the country you are registered in.

Not sure if its still the same but basically we would have to join the confrence North and work our way up.

I for one think this would be do able as we would be infront of the ugly sisters the manky mob and the rest of Scotland. But and this is a big But, would us as fans be happy with a low level of football that is lower than ours until we moved up.

GGTTH

GGTTH

PeeJay
06-06-2011, 08:37 AM
I cannot believe the amount of people who are for a British team at the expense of our league.

Yes, our league is rubbish and a move to the English leagues would generate more money for us in the long run but we cannot even consider losing our footballing history because of it.

At the time of voting, I did not for one second believe I would be the casting vote from 27 people. Some people should be ashamed! :no way::tsk tsk:

Wait a minute: the OP did not mention an "English" league - the OP asks about a British league: I voted yes for a British League and I wouldn't have any qualms/problems with a UK national team either. I don't think it would just benefit us (Scotland) BTW, it would (IMO) also benefit the English/NI and Welsh teams, surely? My understanding of the OP is a British league and (by inference) a UK national team - maybe I read it wrong through?

Ashamed - of what exactly? - Disagreeing with you?? :na na:

Purple & Green
06-06-2011, 08:58 AM
Given that it's looking increasingly likely that we'll be independent by 2015, I think we're stuck with a Scottish National Team.

johnrebus
06-06-2011, 09:07 AM
Given that it's looking increasingly likely that we'll be independent by 2015, I think we're stuck with a Scottish National Team.

Not so sure about that.

Within hours of the SNP landslide victory, President Soapy was playing down the full independence thing..........,

:dizzy:

johnrebus
06-06-2011, 09:08 AM
Wait a minute: the OP did not mention an "English" league - the OP asks about a British league: I voted yes for a British League and I wouldn't have any qualms/problems with a UK national team either. I don't think it would just benefit us (Scotland) BTW, it would (IMO) also benefit the English/NI and Welsh teams, surely? My understanding of the OP is a British league and (by inference) a UK national team - maybe I read it wrong through?

Ashamed - of what exactly? - Disagreeing with you?? :na na:



No, you read it exactly right.

MrSmith
06-06-2011, 09:11 AM
The Scotland team might be rubbish but at least its ours!

Sort our league first. We used to be able to compete with anyone in any league - this is what we need to return to!

Phil MaGlass
06-06-2011, 10:30 AM
I would never sacrifice Scotland, in all my years I dont think i have heard something as ludcrous as this? mind you the stuff they spout at the PBS IS worse, that there are already 22 folk voting for it is beyond belief, for Scotland bashing, this board has been a pain in the arse, but to bring it to this level is amazing. call yirsel Scots its folk(edited) like you that would have sold us oot tae the english 300 yrs ago.scottish fitba has only itself to blame for the mess its in and no moving to a british league will change that, folk forget that small clubs in england are actually pulling in more crowds than we do, we wouldnt survive 5 mins in england due to the fact we dont have a big fanbase to sustain it. Not even if after 10 -15 yrs of eventually getting into the top league would we stay there with all the TV revenue/advertising.
Scotland may be pi5h but they are my pi5h.

steakbake
06-06-2011, 10:46 AM
As I have said elsewhere, this isn't just an issue which might compromise Scotland's status. The existence of an English national team is as much a concession and quirk of history as the existence of a Scotland team.

If there was even the remotest risk of us losing our international status, I would be against it. People like to bump their gums about how terrible the national team is. I think we have a lot to look forward to, especially as the number of young Scottish players going down south is increasing.

Countries of a comparable size do not have particularly exciting leagues either and many of their international team are homegrown then exported. Denmark, Sweden etc.

Also not to be forgotten is the fact that as a footballing nation, we have a better than average record in qualifying for the World Cup.

heretoday
06-06-2011, 10:50 AM
It would mean that our annual quest for the Scottish Cup would be over.

steakbake
06-06-2011, 10:56 AM
It would mean that our annual quest for the Scottish Cup would be over.

And we'd never qualify for Europe, as opposed to just rarely. :wink:

PeeJay
06-06-2011, 11:11 AM
Also not to be forgotten is the fact that as a footballing nation, we have a better than average record in qualifying for the World Cup.

That may be a fair point, but as my German wife says: we (Scotland) are always home before the postcards!:wink:

H18sry
06-06-2011, 11:12 AM
Given the direct choice of entry to a British League for Scottish clubs but with the likely demise of the Scottish national football team, I think a fair few people - myself included - would delighted to go along with that.

Our international side has been an embarrassment for years , so what would be the big deal?

Watching a crap National side every six months or so, or playing in a British League with a financially level playing field, every week?

You decide.

:fishin::fishin:

steakbake
06-06-2011, 11:16 AM
That may be a fair point, but as my German wife says: we (Scotland) are always home before the postcards!:wink:

Psychologically, we're usually home before we've got on the plane.

iwasthere1972
06-06-2011, 11:24 AM
A very short answer. Maybe sometime in the future but not until we win the Scottish Cup.

johnrebus
06-06-2011, 11:30 AM
I would never sacrifice Scotland, in all my years I dont think i have heard something as ludcrous as this? mind you the stuff they spout at the PBS IS worse, that there are already 22 folk voting for it is beyond belief, for Scotland bashing, this board has been a pain in the arse, but to bring it to this level is amazing. call yirsel Scots its folk(edited) like you that would have sold us oot tae the english 300 yrs ago.scottish fitba has only itself to blame for the mess its in and no moving to a british league will change that, folk forget that small clubs in england are actually pulling in more crowds than we do, we wouldnt survive 5 mins in england due to the fact we dont have a big fanbase to sustain it. Not even if after 10 -15 yrs of eventually getting into the top league would we stay there with all the TV revenue/advertising.
Scotland may be pi5h but they are my pi5h.

The sort of sad knee jerk reaction that we have all come to expect from the kilt lifting, arse baring, haggis and tartan brigade.

Does calling for radical change with the game in Scotland always have to be linked to a lack of patriotism or selling out to the English? If you knew and understood your history you would know that the Scots had no choice but to sell themselves to the English three hundred ago as the country was bankrupt! But don't let the facts get in the way of a good storyline. Scotland has always been pretty useless at managing its own affairs and that is not about to change anytime soon.

The game here is dying. We are all football fans, not fighting mercenaries for Gods sake. I want to see good football every week and would be quite willing to lose a couple of games every year by an embarrassing international team, which really no longer serves any useful purpose.

Times move on, things change.



:violin:

HUTCHYHIBBY
06-06-2011, 11:32 AM
I know theres not much in it, but, going by some of the threads on here when the national team is playing I'm pleasantly surprised with the way the vote is going. English clubs have nowt to gain so it'll never happen, but, a European League probably will.

The Baldmans Comb
06-06-2011, 11:40 AM
I wouldn't be happy at all at joining another countrys league.:confused:

It's actually quite a weird idea as I can't think of anywhere else in Europe where such a thing would be remotely discussed

Danish sides joining the Bundesliga.
Swiss sides joining Serie A.
Belgium clubs joining La Championship.

Scotland has some real strange people around.

basehibby
06-06-2011, 11:43 AM
I find it pretty astonishing that so many would sacrifice our national side for the prospect of playing in Engerlund - where we would probably see most of our football being played between the Championship and League 1 - some of whose sides have made industrial style hoofball into an art form.

Of course, the poll should be put into perspective with the knowledge that a significant proportion of the posters on here (about 20-30%) are Hibees fanatics to the extent that they openly don't give a flying one about what happens to the Scotland team anyway - so not really a truly representative picture of the Hibs support as a whole.

I can see the benefits of the increased finance available in the English Leagues but there are also major drawbacks - such as the total unlikelyhood of qualifying for Europe and the resultant loss of profile.

The worst thing though would be the fact that we'd be pretty much totally giving up on international football - I would certainly struggle to raise any enthusiasm whatsoever for a team GB and so would the majority of fans in Scotland. This surrendering of our national identity for the sake of a few fast bucks off of Rupert Murdoch would also be totally at odds with the prevailing zeitgeist of our times - the SNP's majority in Holyrood will undoubtably lead to a referendum on independence in the coming years - how twisted and mercenary would it be for football clubs to sell our national identity down the river at the same time as, after several centuries, the people of Scotland are winning it back with votes at the polling stations?

PeeJay
06-06-2011, 11:45 AM
I wouldn't be happy at all at joining another countrys league.:confused:

It's actually quite a weird idea as I can't think of anywhere else in Europe where such a thing would be remotely discussed


Surely, we're discussing the possibility of a British league - how is that another country?:confused:

GloryGlory
06-06-2011, 11:49 AM
Yeh, great plan.

Sink into oblivion in the equivalent of the Championship, with maybe the occasional dip up or down, playing in a set up with clubs who are financially in a completely different league. Level playing field my erky.

Fair salivating a the prospect of menaingless end of season games v Peterborough and Doncaster.

As opposed to the SPHell, which if it isn't already is rapidly declining into one of European football's sleepy backwaters? :greengrin

The Baldmans Comb
06-06-2011, 11:50 AM
Surely, we're discussing the possibility of a British league - how is that another country?:confused:

In football terms there is no such thing as Britian. It just doesn't exist.

Nor would it ever come into existence as the English football association would have to dissolve itself and as the dominant party re-apply for membership to UEFA and of course FIFA (which would be a bit of a laugh).

I can't see where the advantage there is for English people in this course of events and what is in it for them and I'm also comfortable and self confident enough in my own country to maintain the status quo just as other normal small countries do throughout Europe.

The_Exile
06-06-2011, 11:53 AM
Scottish game isn't dying, it's well and truly dead, full stop. Radical changes needing made, by cleverer folks than I.

Drop the national team to enter a british league? are you mental?!! Instead of being a slave to money, and results, how about staying a slave to the feeling of who and what we are, embrace it for god's sake, we can all make it better if we stood up and got counted, that goes for every nation on the planet, I'm certainy not a mad patriot and can't actually bring myself to give a monkeys these days over the national team, but the thought of giving it up is actually quite disgusting, no matter how pish we are.

The bottom line is this, one generations failure should in no way shape or form, affect future generations hopes and ambitions, that goes for everything, not just fitba.

GloryGlory
06-06-2011, 11:55 AM
I find it pretty astonishing that so many would sacrifice our national side for the prospect of playing in Engerlund - where we would probably see most of our football being played between the Championship and League 1 - some of whose sides have made industrial style hoofball into an art form.

Of course, the poll should be put into perspective with the knowledge that a significant proportion of the posters on here (about 20-30%) are Hibees fanatics to the extent that they openly don't give a flying one about what happens to the Scotland team anyway - so not really a truly representative picture of the Hibs support as a whole.

I can see the benefits of the increased finance available in the English Leagues but there are also major drawbacks - such as the total unlikelyhood of qualifying for Europe and the resultant loss of profile.

The worst thing though would be the fact that we'd be pretty much totally giving up on international football - I would certainly struggle to raise any enthusiasm whatsoever for a team GB and so would the majority of fans in Scotland. This surrendering of our national identity for the sake of a few fast bucks off of Rupert Murdoch would also be totally at odds with the prevailing zeitgeist of our times - the SNP's majority in Holyrood will undoubtably lead to a referendum on independence in the coming years - how twisted and mercenary would it be for football clubs to sell our national identity down the river at the same time as, after several centuries, the people of Scotland are winning it back with votes at the polling stations?

Our first European game in yonks against Maribor in the pre-qualifying round certainly raised our profile.

basehibby
06-06-2011, 11:58 AM
The sort of sad knee jerk reaction that we have all come to expect from the kilt lifting, arse bearing, haggis and tartan brigade.

Does calling for radical change with the game in Scotland always have to be linked to a lack of patriotism or selling out to the English? If you knew and understood your history you would know that the Scots had no choice but to sell themselves to the English three hundred ago as the country was bankrupt! But don't let the facts get in the way of a good storyline. Scotland has always been pretty useless at managing its own affairs and that is not about to change anytime soon.

The game here is dying. We are all football fans, not fighting mercenaries for Gods sake. I want to see good football every week and would be quite willing to lose a couple of games every year by an embarrassing international team, which really no longer serves any useful purpose.

Times move on, things change.

:violin:

I'm a Scotland fan - and one that knows his history well enough - and I'm sure that I'm not the only one that finds your patronising tone insulting in the extreme. You seem to think it's trendy to rip the pish out of the tartan army and rubbish our national team - maybe you'd enjoy yourself more with the extreme right wing lowlife that follow England about and who would surely be delighted with a team GB. Well I'll settle for Scotland and the Tartan Army - we may not win many matches these days but continue to win friends accross the world - and at least if our team ever does achieve anything then we can happilly take the credit for it as it will be OUR team that does it.

Houchy
06-06-2011, 11:58 AM
No way. We are a nation in our own right and as such we should sort our own affairs.
What is needed is for the suits in the SFA to stop pandering to the unfirm and a more even split of the revenue from TV rights etc for starters. And how about restricting a no more than 2 non-Scottish players in each team. That way we would be forced to bring on our youngsters and as such make Scottish footnball a force again.

That worked in years gone by but then these pr1cks in Brussels put a stop to it when they imposed new employment laws across the EU. Before that rule was implemented and you had a maximum of 3 non Scottish (or British) players, we were qualifying for almost every international tournament practically and we were 1st or 2nd seeds for draws. Now we're 3rd (at best) or 4th:agree:

basehibby
06-06-2011, 12:00 PM
Our first European game in yonks against Maribor in the pre-qualifying round certainly raised our profile.

Your point is caller :confused:

JohnScott
06-06-2011, 12:03 PM
Some of you are clearly nuts. Just how the hell could you tell the difference between a UK team and an English one? National anthem: God save the Queen.Colours: Red white n blue. Your idiots! British league yes. Loss of Scotland's national team? Never!

Woody1985
06-06-2011, 12:04 PM
Surely, we're discussing the possibility of a British league - how is that another country?:confused:

It may be a British league in name but it would be the English league with the Scottish teams in it.

We'd play more games against English opposition than we would against Scottish teams once the clubs find their natural positions i.e. no old firm games and some of the lower SPL ending up in league 2. I suspect we'd be a lower championship/league 1 team alongside most of the other SPL teams.

Has anyone ever canvassed opinion from fans in England?

There's always this debate, should we join the English league, they probably wouldn't have us anyway and it would appear that 'poor' Scotland are coming begging for a bit of the big time (well, money actually).

I think a British league cup would be good.

Also, the national team would certainly go if this happens. When the FA were abstaining from the vote Mr Blatter started with his 'this is irresponsible from the FA. They have four votes blah blah blah'. It's evident we're still seen as one nation despite having something in place that says we're not in footballing terms.

PeeJay
06-06-2011, 12:07 PM
In football terms there is no such thing as Britian. It just doesn't exist.

Nor would it ever come into existence as the English football association would have to dissolve itself and as the dominant party re-apply for membership to UEFA and of course FIFA (which would be a bit of a laugh).

I can't see where the advantage there is for English people in this course of events and what is in it for them and I'm also comfortable and self confident enough in my own country to maintain the status quo just as other normal small countries do throughout Europe.

The OP was asking if it may be worthwhile to set up such a league and if it would be acceptable.
We all know the British League doesn't exist. :rolleyes:

BTW - here in Germany many football fans do not feel it is OK for the UK to have four different national football teams - when Germany for example may only have 1. And believe me Bavaria considers itself as much a nation as Scotland does. Maybe Blatter will seek revenge one day for the recent attacks and force the UK FAs to combine?

HibeeMG
06-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Wait a minute: the OP did not mention an "English" league - the OP asks about a British league: I voted yes for a British League and I wouldn't have any qualms/problems with a UK national team either. I don't think it would just benefit us (Scotland) BTW, it would (IMO) also benefit the English/NI and Welsh teams, surely? My understanding of the OP is a British league and (by inference) a UK national team - maybe I read it wrong through?

Ashamed - of what exactly? - Disagreeing with you?? :na na:


No, you read it exactly right.


The sort of sad knee jerk reaction that we have all come to expect from the kilt lifting, arse bearing, haggis and tartan brigade.

Does calling for radical change with the game in Scotland always have to be linked to a lack of patriotism or selling out to the English? If you knew and understood your history you would know that the Scots had no choice but to sell themselves to the English three hundred ago as the country was bankrupt! But don't let the facts get in the way of a good storyline. Scotland has always been pretty useless at managing its own affairs and that is not about to change anytime soon.

The game here is dying. We are all football fans, not fighting mercenaries for Gods sake. I want to see good football every week and would be quite willing to lose a couple of games every year by an embarrassing international team, which really no longer serves any useful purpose.

Times move on, things change.



:violin:

May, I ask you good folk if you are actually Hibs fans?

I will presume that you aren't. The reason being is that any Hibs fan cannot be accused of being a glory hunter. You are demonstrating very glory hunting like traits.

I want to see MY national team playing.

No matter how bad they are, how many goals they are letting in or how many times they fail to qualify for tournaments.

I am first and foremost, Scottish. Scotland is my national team. So please excuse me if I do not feel the same sense of embarassment as you in my national team. :no way:

You could always support England or the Republic of Ireland. They seem to qualify for a fair few tournaments. Would that satisfy?

Oh, and yes, the OP did say that the option was to join a UK league. You did not read it wrong. Neither did I though and nor was my calling it the English leagues a mistake either. You would be foolish to think that the game would be run to suit anything other than the teams down south if the UK league were to come to fruition.

johnrebus
06-06-2011, 12:35 PM
The OP was asking if it may be worthwhile to set up such a league and if it would be acceptable.
We all know the British League doesn't exist. :rolleyes:

BTW - here in Germany many football fans do not feel it is OK for the UK to have four different national football teams - when Germany for example may only have 1. And believe me Bavaria considers itself as much a nation as Scotland does. Maybe Blatter will seek revenge one day for the recent attacks and force the UK FAs to combine?

Exactly, you beat me to it.

There are many countries who resent the set up here in the 'UK' with four international sides within one country.

I can see their point.

:agree:

marinello59
06-06-2011, 12:41 PM
The sort of sad knee jerk reaction that we have all come to expect from the kilt lifting, arse bearing, haggis and tartan brigade.



How does that work? Do they have some sort of silver platter they carry them round on?

johnrebus
06-06-2011, 12:46 PM
May, I ask you good folk if you are actually Hibs fans?

I will presume that you aren't. The reason being is that any Hibs fan cannot be accused of being a glory hunter. You are demonstrating very glory hunting like traits.

I want to see MY national team playing.

No matter how bad they are, how many goals they are letting in or how many times they fail to qualify for tournaments.

I am first and foremost, Scottish. Scotland is my national team. So please excuse me if I do not feel the same sense of embarassment as you in my national team. :no way:

You could always support England or the Republic of Ireland. They seem to qualify for a fair few tournaments. Would that satisfy?

Oh, and yes, the OP did say that the option was to join a UK league. You did not read it wrong. Neither did I though and nor was my calling it the English leagues a mistake either. You would be foolish to think that the game would be run to suit anything other than the teams down south if the UK league were to come to fruition.


Yes, I am a Hibs fan. What the hell has that got to do with it?


Glory hunting traits?

Is it wrong to want something better?

Are you happy with meaningless end of season games against St Mirren, Hamilton etc etc played out in three quarter empty grounds?

Everyone is quite entitled to get hot under the collar about the National side or a possible BRITISH league. But please, it would be nice to hear of some alternative suggestions as to how we get the game in this country out of its current mess.

We all know 'something needs to be done'.

But what exactly?

:confused:

johnrebus
06-06-2011, 12:48 PM
How does that work? Do they have some sort of silver platter they carry them round on?

Did your mother never tell you that know one likes a smartarse?

:na na:

RIP
06-06-2011, 12:49 PM
Scotland will always have a separate international football team and no amount of rhetoric on a messageboard is ever going to change that

If you think that going to see Hibs on a Saturday isn't enjoyable any more - I suggest you go shoppping wi the wife or play golf instead

HibeeMG
06-06-2011, 12:54 PM
Yes, I am a Hibs fan. What the hell has that got to do with it?


Glory hunting traits?

Is it wrong to want something better?

Are you happy with meaningless end of season games against St Mirren, Hamilton etc etc played out in three quarter empty grounds?

Everyone is quite entitled to get hot under the collar about the National side or a possible BRITISH league. But please, it would be nice to hear of some alternative suggestions as to how we get the game in this country out of its current mess.

We all know 'something needs to be done'.

But what exactly?

:confused:

The reason I asked whether you were a Hibs fan or not became clear in my next paragraph I thought.

To want something better is indeed admirable at times. However, should I cast aside my wife, who I love very much, because someone richer and better looking comes along? That's not the way I run my life.

Yes, something needs to be done, but not at the expense of the national team.

Better minds than mine will debate, probably in vain, to solve the issue of our dying game. Now is not the time or the place for me to try.

The_Exile
06-06-2011, 12:59 PM
should I cast aside my wife, who I love very much, because someone richer and better looking comes along?

Depends on how rich she is, is your current wife a munter? if so I'd give it some thought. :agree:

johnrebus
06-06-2011, 01:04 PM
[QUOTE=HibeeMG;2822050]The reason I asked whether you were a Hibs fan or not became clear in my next paragraph I thought.

To want something better is indeed admirable at times. However, should I cast aside my wife, who I love very much, because someone richer and better looking comes along? That's not the way I run my life.


If you are suggesting that I think that way, then you are being very insulting.

Try not to react like a troll when you disagree with someone.

:greengrin

HibeeMG
06-06-2011, 01:43 PM
If you are suggesting that I think that way, then you are being very insulting.

Try not to react like a troll when you disagree with someone.

:greengrin

Oh, stop being insulted by a simple analogy.

The point I was obviously making was that it's not simply a matter of trading upwards for most people. We would be losing something that we have too much of an emotional attachment to no matter what the benefits are.

HUTCHYHIBBY
06-06-2011, 02:08 PM
Polarised opinion is good. This is becoming a good thread. Still got a way to go to catch up with FH'S COS thread on The Holy Ground tho!

The Baldmans Comb
06-06-2011, 02:14 PM
The OP was asking if it may be worthwhile to set up such a league and if it would be acceptable.
We all know the British League doesn't exist. :rolleyes:

BTW - here in Germany many football fans do not feel it is OK for the UK to have four different national football teams - when Germany for example may only have 1. And believe me Bavaria considers itself as much a nation as Scotland does. Maybe Blatter will seek revenge one day for the recent attacks and force the UK FAs to combine?

This seperate distinction is clear to you but I don't think it at all clear to all as a reasonable number of posters think who you wave a wand and the Scottish teams get to join the league structure of another country.:confused:

Even if Scottish clubs and supporters wanted this to happen it wouldn't matter as it's what English people want that is the deciding factor and I don't see any benefits for the people of that country at all.

I agree with you concerning Bavaria or Catalonia or Flanders as Scotland isn't a proper country and is only allowed a FIFA representative team for ancient historical reasons and would be laughed out of court if it were to apply in modern times for membership.:na na:

Blatter and his corrupt cronies at FIFA owe the English one in the eye big time and the SFA were guilty by association.:rolleyes:

HibeeMG
06-06-2011, 02:19 PM
I agree with you concerning Bavaria or Catalonia or Flanders as Scotland isn't a proper country and is only allowed a FIFA representative team for ancient historical reasons and would be laughed out of court if it were to apply in modern times for membership.:na na:

I don't know if that would be the case.

Surely the fact that we have our own Football Association, and one of such long standing, would make a difference? :dunno:

Maybe because we have our own parliament now, would help as well.

The Baldmans Comb
06-06-2011, 02:47 PM
I don't know if that would be the case.

Surely the fact that we have our own Football Association, and one of such long standing, would make a difference? :dunno:

Maybe because we have our own parliament now, would help as well.

There is vast number of regions of the world that have their own 'legislature' for example 50 odd USA states who have just as much localised power as a Scottish parliament.

It's veering towards a political rather than a football debate but Scotland isn't a proper country in any meaningful sense and FIFA wouldn't entertain application for membership these days and we are so lucky we got in first.:greengrin

And as for Wales and the North of Ireland.:taxi

GloryGlory
06-06-2011, 02:54 PM
Your point is caller :confused:

Irony. :greengrin

PeeJay
06-06-2011, 02:56 PM
This seperate distinction is clear to you but I don't think it at all clear to all as a reasonable number of posters think who you wave a wand and the Scottish teams get to join the league structure of another country.:confused:

Even if Scottish clubs and supporters wanted this to happen it wouldn't matter as it's what English people want that is the deciding factor and I don't see any benefits for the people of that country at all.

I agree with you concerning Bavaria or Catalonia or Flanders as Scotland isn't a proper country and is only allowed a FIFA representative team for ancient historical reasons and would be laughed out of court if it were to apply in modern times for membership.:na na:

Blatter and his corrupt cronies at FIFA owe the English one in the eye big time and the SFA were guilty by association.:rolleyes:

It's only a hypothetical post (although an interesting one I think) I know, but I think to make it at all discussable we surely have to accept at the start of any further discussion that Scotland is indeed part of the UK, i.e. Britain and therefore joining a British league would not be akin to "...a Scottish club joining another country's league" - we are all British clubs aren't we? I mean, granted, we don't actually have a British league so it would have to be set up and - at that particular moment - the EPL, SPL and whatever the Welsh/Irish have would cease to be: so we would then join a new league: the BL. If we can't get past that wee mind hurdle then the ultimate pet hate of many posters on here will ruin any chance of discussion anyway.

And BTW - unless I'm mistaken: not everyone (fans, players, managers, etc.) in the EPL is "English" - perhaps something to consider when wielding that particular stick?:greengrin

sahib
06-06-2011, 03:01 PM
There is vast number of regions of the world that have their own 'legislature' for example 50 odd USA states who have just as much localised power as a Scottish parliament.

It's veering towards a political rather than a football debate but Scotland isn't a proper country in any meaningful sense and FIFA wouldn't entertain application for membership these days and we are so lucky we got in first.:greengrin

And as for Wales and the North of Ireland.:taxi

That's right slag the whole country off, just cause we can't manage construction projects properly and most of our women have ducks disease. Why don't you move to Berwick on Tweed if you think that -no wait they play in the Scottish league.

7 Up
06-06-2011, 03:07 PM
Scotland and England are both countries, just not sovereign ones. The UK is a country of countries.

In all likelihood the only Scottish teams to benefit from such a merger would be the Old Firm. The rest would probably be destined for the obscurity of League One or League Two. The prospect of which is immensely unappealing to me at least.

basehibby
06-06-2011, 03:12 PM
Irony. :greengrin


OK - I got your irony but it's pretty misplaced all the same don't you think.

Hibs' last European exposure may have been akin to a streaker with a one inch tadger - ie. not a lot to shout about and you sort of wonder why we bothered - but it WAS exposure nonetheless :agree:

The alternative of joining the English set up would be more comparable to a streaker with a pair of cast iron underpants on - welded to a pair of reinforced steel braces - making any sort of exposure considerably more difficult regardless of what was available for display.

The Baldmans Comb
06-06-2011, 03:19 PM
It's only a hypothetical post (although an interesting one I think) I know, but I think to make it at all discussable we surely have to accept at the start of any further discussion that Scotland is indeed part of the UK, i.e. Britain and therefore joining a British league would not be akin to "...a Scottish club joining another country's league" - we are all British clubs aren't we? I mean, granted, we don't actually have a British league so it would have to be set up and - at that particular moment - the EPL, SPL and whatever the Welsh/Irish have would cease to be: so we would then join a new league: the BL. If we can't get past that wee mind hurdle then the ultimate pet hate of many posters on here will ruin any chance of discussion anyway.

And BTW - unless I'm mistaken: not everyone (fans, players, managers, etc.) in the EPL is "English" - perhaps something to consider when wielding that particular stick?:greengrin

I think you are rather contradicting yourself and confusing a football discussion with a political discussion by starting from the wrong premise as in football terms 'we aren't all British clubs' as you claim as Britian in a football context just doesn''t exist as there is no such entity.:wink:

Your conclusion of creating a British Association is correct though and raises an amusing dilema as politically Scottish people may decide to be a proper sovereign nation while at the same time your synopsis would ironically abolish all notion of sovereignty and amalgate Scottish football under the auspicies of completely separate nation.:confused:

Your still aiming at the wrong target audience though as it is English people who hold every single card and ultimately need to be persuaded.:confused:

steakbake
06-06-2011, 03:35 PM
Scotland and England are both countries, just not sovereign ones. The UK is a country of countries.

In all likelihood the only Scottish teams to benefit from such a merger would be the Old Firm. The rest would probably be destined for the obscurity of League One or League Two. The prospect of which is immensely unappealing to me at least.

This is, I think, the crux of the matter. A lot of people over-estimate where we are in all of this. Over a 38-42 game season against good opposition, where would we come?

I think if we went straight in as we are just now, we'd be in the lower reaches of the Championship, I would say. Possibly even doing well to stay up.

Bishop Hibee
06-06-2011, 03:44 PM
If a representative of Hibs voted for the dissolution of the national team, I would not support them in a UK league. I imagine there would be enough fans to start an FC Hibernian playing in a reconstituted Scottish league again though.

FC Hibernian in the qualifying rounds of the CL having won the Scottish league or Hibs v Peterborough for 15th spot in the Championship. No contest really.

Calvin
06-06-2011, 04:04 PM
FC Hibernian in the qualifying rounds of the CL having won the Scottish league or Hibs v Peterborough for 15th spot in the Championship. No contest really.
That's all very well if you take one game in isolation for the purposes of your own argument, but if you consider whole seasons over a sustained period of time do you think it would be less enjoyable for us to be in a British League? I certainly don't.

PeeJay
06-06-2011, 04:23 PM
I think you are rather contradicting yourself and confusing a football discussion with a political discussion by starting from the wrong premise as in football terms 'we aren't all British clubs' as you claim as Britian in a football context just doesn''t exist as there is no such entity.:wink:

I think I'm pretty focussed on it actually: but maybe I've lived in Germany too long: nothing sinister, I just meant it in a wider context as in UK-based clubs - and you can't really get round that fact.

Your conclusion of creating a British Association is correct though and raises an amusing dilema as politically Scottish people may decide to be a proper sovereign nation while at the same time your synopsis would ironically abolish all notion of sovereignty and amalgate Scottish football under the auspicies of completely separate nation.:confused:

:hmmm: - that would blow everything out of the water - I think!

Your still aiming at the wrong target audience though as it is English people who hold every single card and ultimately need to be persuaded.:confused:

Well I'm actually of the opinion that such a move would benefit "UK" football, so I include the English and think they too would benefit - but I must admit I don't really hold out much hope for a voluntary move towards a British League - maybe that little Swiss gentleman will give it all a kick-start though? :wink:



:flag:

Hibernia Na Eir
06-06-2011, 05:19 PM
crazy thread!

Dashing Bob S
06-06-2011, 05:39 PM
It's clear that the SPL, like the leagues of other small nations, is increasingly non-viable in terms of economies of scale and appeal to broadcasting revenue streams.

However, we must be pathetic to keep looking to England to our salvation, they don't give a toss, and why should they?

Surely the way forward is to work with other neighbouring small countries with professional leagues, Scandinavia, Benelux etc, and come with a viable two League structure of 18 teams, and a feeder system of regional play-offs for promotion/relegation. Such a set-up would have good broadcast potential, as people generally speak good English in those countries. I think a bigger structure gives all clubs a chance to grow (and regress). Well managed, we be a top division one club, playing the likes of Ajax, Feyernoord, Anderlect, etc, badly manged we could be in a backwater. It's more interesting than 3rd on a good year, 10th on a disasterous one that we 'enjoy' now.

Bishop Hibee
06-06-2011, 06:11 PM
That's all very well if you take one game in isolation for the purposes of your own argument, but if you consider whole seasons over a sustained period of time do you think it would be less enjoyable for us to be in a British League? I certainly don't.

I enjoy semi-finals on a regular basis, national cup finals on occasion and 2 national trophies to celebrate along with intermittent European competition. Say goodbye to all of this in your lifetime if we joined a British League. So yes, it would be less enjoyable for us to be in a British League.


It's clear that the SPL, like the leagues of other small nations, is increasingly non-viable in terms of economies of scale and appeal to broadcasting revenue streams.

However, we must be pathetic to keep looking to England to our salvation, they don't give a toss, and why should they?

Surely the way forward is to work with other neighbouring small countries with professional leagues, Scandinavia, Benelux etc, and come with a viable two League structure of 18 teams, and a feeder system of regional play-offs for promotion/relegation. Such a set-up would have good broadcast potential, as people generally speak good English in those countries. I think a bigger structure gives all clubs a chance to grow (and regress). Well managed, we be a top division one club, playing the likes of Ajax, Feyernoord, Anderlect, etc, badly manged we could be in a backwater. It's more interesting than 3rd on a good year, 10th on a disasterous one that we 'enjoy' now.

The above is close to how I believe it will end up. The end-game, as I posted recently on another thread, is I believe, a European League. That's where the OF will end up.

We certainly won't be in that and there will be no relegation/promotion from it. Hibs will play in domestic Scottish competition as well as a Europa League style competition with the likes of Genk, FC Twente, Genoa and other middle ranked teams in their respective countries.

The only way we'd ever meet the OF again would be if the national cup competition continued.

The Baldmans Comb
06-06-2011, 06:44 PM
to PJ

I don't think you are focussed on the subject at all as you seem to have problem understanding that in a footballing context Britian doesn't exist.

With breath number 1 you proclaiming 'we are all British clubs' when nothing of the sort exists which with breath number 2 you then acknowledge by agreeing that the British Football Association still needs to be created.

That's not a focused mind, that's a very muddled mind.:confused:

Nor have you thought through the consequences on the people of England which is the spiritual home of football and you will just happilly demolish 150 years of English history and English identity on the spurious unexplained belief that somehow ''this will benefit UK football''.

That's not a focused mind, that's a very disrespectful small mind particularly towards our neighbours .:confused:

If there is to be a move towards a complete reorganisation of Scottish football then Scotland belongs alongside the other small nations of Western Europe in league pyramid structures and European Cup competions rather than being completely submerged in the lower reaches of 22 team English divisions from which without a sugar daddy it would be impossible to escape.

You are right you have lived in a huge monolithic country like Germany far to long which fits in quite neatly with your English centric view of European football as some mythical holy grail.:wink:

heretoday
06-06-2011, 07:55 PM
It's clear that the SPL, like the leagues of other small nations, is increasingly non-viable in terms of economies of scale and appeal to broadcasting revenue streams.

However, we must be pathetic to keep looking to England to our salvation, they don't give a toss, and why should they?

Surely the way forward is to work with other neighbouring small countries with professional leagues, Scandinavia, Benelux etc, and come with a viable two League structure of 18 teams, and a feeder system of regional play-offs for promotion/relegation. Such a set-up would have good broadcast potential, as people generally speak good English in those countries. I think a bigger structure gives all clubs a chance to grow (and regress). Well managed, we be a top division one club, playing the likes of Ajax, Feyernoord, Anderlect, etc, badly manged we could be in a backwater. It's more interesting than 3rd on a good year, 10th on a disasterous one that we 'enjoy' now.

Good idea and a chance for turning the tables on Elfsborg.

PeeJay
07-06-2011, 06:33 AM
"The Baldmans Comb"

In a discussion about a "British league" it is hardly "muddled" to talk about British clubs. I find it more consistent than some other posters who called this hypothetical British league an "English" league - so in this particular context my use of British is perfectly OK - IMO, of course.

Disrespectful: to whom, I am not imposing anything on anyone - this is a discussion. Your use of words, like "muddled","small minded", "disrespectful" BTW is that what you mean by respectful?

I don't have an English-centric view on this or any other matter - you already accused me of wishing to demolish them "...150 years of history..." (wrong again!) -

"Monolithic" Germany as you call it is a perfect example of what can happen when a nation presents itself in a unified and cohesive manner: Germany's success at football (assuming you accept the concepts of Germany and success) is plain for all to see. As I already mentioned some Germans have a problem with a nation like the UK being able to split things up as it does into four FAs - while a historical thing, maybe it has run its course?

This particular discussion is not going anywhere, so I'm out of here...:bye:

Dashing Bob S
07-06-2011, 03:22 PM
I enjoy semi-finals on a regular basis, national cup finals on occasion and 2 national trophies to celebrate along with intermittent European competition. Say goodbye to all of this in your lifetime if we joined a British League. So yes, it would be less enjoyable for us to be in a British League.



The above is close to how I believe it will end up. The end-game, as I posted recently on another thread, is I believe, a European League. That's where the OF will end up.

We certainly won't be in that and there will be no relegation/promotion from it. Hibs will play in domestic Scottish competition as well as a Europa League style competition with the likes of Genk, FC Twente, Genoa and other middle ranked teams in their respective countries.

The only way we'd ever meet the OF again would be if the national cup competition continued.

There's a good argument to get rid of the SC.

Dashing Bob S
07-06-2011, 03:34 PM
Good idea and a chance for turning the tables on Elfsborg.

We could finally get the revenge we've been waiting for.


It's tempting to think that Rangers and Celtic would be in a division with the likes of Ajax, Feyernoord, PSV, Anderlecht, Standard Leige, Rosenborg, Copenhagen and Malmo, but outside of that list (and indeed on it) you have a lot of clubs that are no more intrinsically 'big' that Hibs, Hearts, A'deen. We'd all, presumably, be competing with the likes of them for a top tier spot. I think a two league structure with promo, relegation and play-offs would be both viable and desirable commercially. I'm sure that, as in England, all but five or six clubs would be potential yo-yo outfits, and yes, perhaps even drop out of the top two back into their national league, but it would still be more interesting than what we have at present.

I think we've been stuck in this frustrating backwater of Scottish football too long that put ourselves down. Few Scandinavian/Benelux clubs are big clubs, precisely because they have been progressively disadvantaged over the last twenty years by operating in smaller leagues. In that respect, we're no different. But for clubs within smaller nations to develop, the answer is surely to combine into European regional leagues.