Guess the Hearts debt

[down the slope]

They are creasing themselves guessing the crowd for Murray's testimonial well lets see if we can return the compliment , so for me it's
30 million.
My bets Sergey will be the closest.

[iwasthere1972]

They are creasing themselves guessing the crowd for Murray's testimonial well lets see if we can return the compliment , so for me it's
30 million.
My bets Sergey will be the closest.

I would hope that it's more than the 8,057 that turned out for Harry Potter but I'm not so confident.

Anyway back to the debt. £45 million and rising.

[Jonnyboy]

They are creasing themselves guessing the crowd for Murray's testimonial well lets see if we can return the compliment , so for me it's
30 million.
My bets Sergey will be the closest.

There are more folk in Murray's family than turned up for club legend Gary Mackay's :greengrin

[justlikebrazil]

they forget only 8000 turned up for craig leveins testimonial!!! oh yes they got beat by a wee team to :wink:

[sixtwo]

they forget only 8000 turned up for craig leveins testimonial!!! oh yes they got beat by a wee team to :wink:

There is no debt. They owe it to themselves. Wonga.com paid them a massive amount and cleared it. Wonga.com by tramps, for tramps, the only sponsor for the tramps

[Horse]

they forget only 8000 turned up for craig leveins testimonial!!! oh yes they got beat by a wee team to :wink:

Aye but you forgot about the 392,000 that were locked out.

[down the slope]

Forgot to mention your answers have to be in by 12 noon tomorrow which is when the AGM kicks off, my bet is they will be told the ground will have to be sold and they have to rent Murryfield in the short term(50 years) then Vlad can blame the cooncil etc, you know the script and you know what they will swallow it hook line and sinker.

[Hibeesb0unc3]

i'm going for £40 million and rising

[Leithenhibby]

Forgot to mention your answers have to be in by 12 noon tomorrow which is when the AGM kicks off, my bet is they will be told the ground will have to be sold and they have to rent Murryfield in the short term(50 years) then Vlad can blame the cooncil etc, you know the script and you know what they will swallow it hook line and sinker.

:greengrin

39 million, but that will be reduced as Wallace & Kello will be moved on :wink:

[1875STEVE]

Don't forget the massive 5,575 that went to Gary MacKay's testimonial. :greengrin

Big club my arse.

Also il guess at £40m

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Guess the Hearts debt .

Collectively, they owe a debt to society.

[Leithenhibby]

Don't forget the massive 5,575 that went to Gary MacKay's testimonial. :greengrin

Big club my arse.

Also il guess at £40m


:greengrin Nice one. I was wondering what the crowd was for that halfwit, knew it was pants.. but 5,575 is very poor ...

[hibs0666]

Let's not forget the 5,575 that pitched up for Mackay's testimonial.

Mind you, that crowd was massive compared to the 3,500 that pitched up for Levein.

[ScottB]

Their ceiling is £40 million, so no more than that.

They got another £10million knocked off for equity last season, as their most recent set of figures had them at the £30million mark, hence the £8million quid the Mad One pumped in to keep them away from their limit.

So if their was no further cash injection last season, I'd wager they are back up to near £30million again.

[1875STEVE]

:greengrin Nice one. I was wondering what the crowd was for that halfwit, knew it was pants.. but 5,575 is very poor ...

And for the club "legend" with most appearances for the club.

He also has a massive medal collection. :na na:

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Collectively, they owe a debt to society.

:top marks

Only a life sentence would suffice.

[Leithenhibby]

And for the club "legend" with most appearances for the club.

He also has a massive medal collection. :na na:


:greengrin Always cheers me up when He gets it tight as He thought he was the mutts nuts .. :rolleyes:

[iwasthere1972]

Don't forget the massive 5,575 that went to Gary MacKay's testimonial. :greengrin

Big club my arse.

Also il guess at £40m

7919 for Robbie Neilsen's testimonial.

So let's see. 8,000 (Harry Potter), 5575 (Gary MacKay) and 7919 (Robbie Neilsen).

:hilarious

[Mikeystewart]

how can it be debt if they owe it to themselves? :wink:

[WindyMiller]

£36.2m.:aok:

[Sergey]

£36.2m.:aok:

You've stole my thunder!!

I reckon that you're £200k out :wink:

Do they (the Yams) still have a positive spin to put on their debt?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The thing is that by the time you have guessed and posted, the debt will have gone up by another 10k or so. Judging but the slidey-ometer thing on the Wanga adverts its' less if you pay back quickly. The leagles say that your bus shelter is at risk if you default.

[ScottB]

You've stole my thunder!!

I reckon that you're £200k out :wink:

Do they (the Yams) still have a positive spin to put on their debt?

It's usually that they owe it to themselves therefore it doesn't matter. There's no point in trying to debate with those who take this view, they are either stupid, or in denial...

[Jim44]

For a fraction of their debt we could have a competitive team which could put a little bit of excitement into our humdrum existence. But that would be sacrilegious to the Petrie doctrine, so let's just enjoy ripping into their success by reminding them of their imminent demise.:rolleyes:

[Kaiser1962]

You've stole my thunder!!

I reckon that you're £200k out :wink:

Do they (the Yams) still have a positive spin to put on their debt?

He's only £100k out :greengrin


Thats just to July 2010 mind and ignoring the £7.863m they overspent in that season.

[Kaiser1962]

For a fraction of their debt we could have a competitive team which could put a little bit of excitement into our humdrum existence. But that would be sacrilegious to the Petrie doctrine, so let's just enjoy ripping into their success by reminding them of their imminent demise.:rolleyes:


Its obviously a piece of piss to do.

By aquiring a "fraction of their debt" would we be able to stay profitable?

[Springbank]

7919 for Robbie Neilsen's testimonial.

So let's see. 8,000 (Harry Potter), 5575 (Gary MacKay) and 7919 (Robbie Neilsen).

:hilarious

we could have fitted all three crowds at once inside the new ER - the finest football stadium in Edinburgh and (I will wager) the finest Edinburgh will ever see!

[ScottB]

For a fraction of their debt we could have a competitive team which could put a little bit of excitement into our humdrum existence. But that would be sacrilegious to the Petrie doctrine, so let's just enjoy ripping into their success by reminding them of their imminent demise.:rolleyes:

We don't have a crazy Russian owner willing to let us run in an insolvent state. If we start spending way beyond our means, the Bank will have words with us and we end up back in the years of cuts we've been through.

The question is, is finishing third a few times worth the amount of money they've spent? I'd say it isn't frankly. Not in terms that they may sooner or later go bust for it, but for the vast amount they've spent, only their second place season stands out as something any of the rest of us couldn't.

[iwasthere1972]

we could have fitted all three crowds at once inside the new ER - the finest football stadium in Edinburgh and (I will wager) the finest Edinburgh will ever see!

Funnily enough I was going to point out that fact.

As Jim Royle would say "Big team my :asshole:"

[CraigHibee]

38.4 m and rising faster than the tide!

[Barney McGrew]

they forget only 8000 turned up for craig leveins testimonial!!! oh yes they got beat by a wee team to :wink:

That was the second one they held for him, since there was only 3500 bothered to turn up at the first one for one of their club 'legends'

And just for the record, Coventry pumped them 5-1 :greengrin

http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/games/199510081.html

[weonlywon6-2]

They are creasing themselves guessing the crowd for Murray's testimonial well lets see if we can return the compliment , so for me it's
30 million.
My bets Sergey will be the closest.

i would say low 30`s.

you wonder how,with rangers having a similar debt and were close to administration and lets face it are a huge club compared to hearts, how can hearts continue to carry on with such a debt.

vlad,if what im told pays in 8million each year to keep them going then one day that has to stop?

maybe he might come up with a plan to build a new stadium,sell swynie and do a runner !:greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

I have always wondered this.

For all our talk, tick tock, beLIEve, Tescos, ect they are still alive in Tynecastle.

I have come to the conclusion that there has to be somthIng dodgy going on.

Are Hearts a front for money laundering? Was his intention always to strip them once used? If so why pump money into them? To clean the money?

J



i would say low 30`s.

you wonder how,with rangers having a similar debt and were close to administration and lets face it are a huge club compared to hearts, how can hearts continue to carry on with such a debt.

vlad,if what im told pays in 8million each year to keep them going then one day that has to stop?

maybe he might come up with a plan to build a new stadium,sell swynie and do a runner !:greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

I have always wondered this.

For all our talk, tick tock, beLIEve, Tescos, ect they are still alive in Tynecastle.

I have come to the conclusion that there has to be somthIng dodgy going on.

Are Hearts a front for money laundering? Was his intention always to strip them once used? If so why pump money into them? To clean the money?

J

Nothing comes out of tynie clean!!!

[Kaiser1962]

vlad,if what im told pays in 8million each year to keep them going then one day that has to stop?



It probably will at some point although, for some strange reason, they keep it going.

Thing is WHEN it does stop what happens? Not very much IMO. They go into admin, get fined 10 points by the SFA, roger all their debtors, come out of admin after everybody has accepted 2p in the £, and go on as before like nothing happened.

[Green_one]

Zero debt today but on Tuesday evening Wonga want £37million plus 42%

I believe Hearts have put a stadium at Hermiston Gate and a £50m stand down as collateral

Anyway, debt does not matter. Do we have a flute band? - NO. Wee club.

[WindyMiller]

You've stole my thunder!!

I reckon that you're £200k out :wink:

Do they (the Yams) still have a positive spin to put on their debt?

They are good at it.
Every player they signed in the past month talks about them being a big/massive club, competing with the OF etc..

They'll maybe be a bit more honest this time, to convince the Yams that moving from Tynie is the only option i.e. "a big club needs a big stadium".

[ronaldo7]

Hibernian Legend Pat Stanton testimonial over 35,000

Homofc Leg end Gary Mackay testimonial just over 3,500

Who are the Big Team?

[Caversham Green]

As stated previously, the Hearts debt at 31 July 2010 was £36.1m - up £1.4m despite a £7.9m forgiveness of debt.

That £7.9m is the important issue here. Why was nothing said about it in July 2010 when it is supposed to have taken place? We heard plenty about the debt for equity swap a few months later. Here's why.

The concept of 'going concern' is fundamental to the audit report. As it stands the report is one of uncertainty - the auditors can't be sure the the company is a going concern. If that changes to disagreement (i.e. the auditors cannot accept that the company is a going concern) the company would be forced to close down. In practice the auditors would never actually sign such a report, they would simply resign (I've actually found myself in that situation and my firm lost a few thousand pounds in fees as a result).

Hearts have a self-imposed borrowing limit of £40m. That means that when they go above that the company is acting outwith its parameters and is technically not a going concern. If the year end accounts show this situation the auditors are in the position outlined above. What has happened is that after all the audit adjustments went through Hearts were found to be £44m in debt so either they were out of business or a way had to be found to bring that debt down. Under the circumstances the forgiveness of debt was carried out retrospectively so that they could keep trading in the short-term.

I know some people are sick of the stories about the yams going bust, but that's the reality of how close they are to the edge. Mr Romanov has been much more generous than I would have expected and they will stagger on until he gets bored or goes broke. New stadium? Not a chance.

[Dr Jimmy]

It probably will at some point although, for some strange reason, they keep it going.

Thing is WHEN it does stop what happens? Not very much IMO. They go into admin, get fined 10 points by the SFA, roger all their debtors, come out of admin after everybody has accepted 2p in the £, and go on as before like nothing happened.

The difference with Hearts creditors and others that have suffered when a club goes into admin is that Hearts owe the money to a company (ubig) that owns their assets (pbs), and not local it national suppliers etc.
Can't see them ever going into admin, stripping the place bare would be a better option for them (ubig) unless a consortium came forward and made an offer, and we all know how well that went when the piemam was looking to sell.
The funny thing for me is all the "we owe the money to ourselves" bragging could ultimately be the cause of their demise.

[Houchy]

£32.8:agree:

[Geo_1875]

I would wager that whatever they announce will be nowhere near the truth.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I wouldnt be that surprised if there wasnt a big turn out for IMs testimonial TBH.

He did leave the club for one of the OF and though financially that made sense for him it didnt endear him to a lot of supporters.

Most of the big turn outs for testimonials have been for the likes of Gordon Rae who was a one club man and though Pat Stanton did go to celtic it was at the erse end of his career and as far as I am aware was more of a board decision than his.

Anyway a lot rides on who the opposition is which is why celtic are so popular for testimonials, coz you can guarantee that they will bring a decent support, especially in Engerlund.

As for the Yams debt. Probably over £30,000,000. They can only sustain that coz Vlad bails them out on an ongoing basis. He seems to run his business empire on a my way or the highway basis. If he is ever hit by a bus or something the Yams are doomed coz the first thing whoever takes over will think is 'hey its time to get our money back'

Tick Tock may be an ongoing joke on here, but for the Yams its a harsh reality and the fact that so many of them delude themselves that it isnt is hard to believe.

What the crowd will be for a Hibbies testimonial should be the last thing they have to be worried about.

[greenginger]

I have always wondered this.

For all our talk, tick tock, beLIEve, Tescos, ect they are still alive in Tynecastle.

I have come to the conclusion that there has to be somthIng dodgy going on.

Are Hearts a front for money laundering? Was his intention always to strip them once used? If so why pump money into them? To clean the money?

J


I don't think HOMFC can be the money laundering vehicle but could be the excuse to have the squad of dodgy Eastern Europeans in Edinburgh.

What has Vasiliauskas Vitalijis , the head of HOMFC infrastructure or something been doing for the past two years. Stays in a £1.5 Million town house in Carlton Terrace and seems to have done S F A for the bus shelter.

What ever happened to last years "investigation" into £1.7 Billion of suspected money laundering at Ukio Bankas, not heard a word either way ! seems to have been forgotten about.

And, have Hearts Accountants ever been allowed to see a copy of UBIG's accounts, not according to the latest Independent Auditors Report up for approval today.

There is certainly something murky going on down Gorgie way that allows the MAD one to financially dope HOMFC to the tune of £8 million per season and as long as this continues they will remain best of the rest.

I think its time Hibs.net hired its own Private Investigator. :greengrin

[GloryGlory]

As stated previously, the Hearts debt at 31 July 2010 was £36.1m - up £1.4m despite a £7.9m forgiveness of debt.

That £7.9m is the important issue here. Why was nothing said about it in July 2010 when it is supposed to have taken place? We heard plenty about the debt for equity swap a few months later. Here's why.

The concept of 'going concern' is fundamental to the audit report. As it stands the report is one of uncertainty - the auditors can't be sure the the company is a going concern. If that changes to disagreement (i.e. the auditors cannot accept that the company is a going concern) the company would be forced to close down. In practice the auditors would never actually sign such a report, they would simply resign (I've actually found myself in that situation and my firm lost a few thousand pounds in fees as a result).

Hearts have a self-imposed borrowing limit of £40m. That means that when they go above that the company is acting outwith its parameters and is technically not a going concern. If the year end accounts show this situation the auditors are in the position outlined above. What has happened is that after all the audit adjustments went through Hearts were found to be £44m in debt so either they were out of business or a way had to be found to bring that debt down. Under the circumstances the forgiveness of debt was carried out retrospectively so that they could keep trading in the short-term.

I know some people are sick of the stories about the yams going bust, but that's the reality of how close they are to the edge. Mr Romanov has been much more generous than I would have expected and they will stagger on until he gets bored or goes broke. New stadium? Not a chance.

I would suggest they will stagger on until he manages to extract as much value as possible from the main asset - i.e. the land at the PBS. That's why I suspect they are going through the "consultation" about the fabulous new stadium. Hopefully, Mad Vlad will trick the Yams with some ruse about a stadium being built, sell the PBS, move to "temporary" accommodation - Murrayfield, Livi, whereever - while the new stadium is being built and then mysteriously it all goes belly-up, no new stadium, Vlad pockets the PBS cash in payment of loans and then b*gg*rs off into the sunset, saying it was a conspiracy by the SFA, Edinburgh Cooncil, old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all to stop the Yams winning the Champions' League for the tenth year in a row and not his fault at all. :greengrin

Or am I just being cynical? :wink:

[aberhibsfc]

Reminds me of the trick when you think of a number, x it by x etc etc..........

I was thinking about this this morning. I get the feeling that Romanov is looking for an exit strategty which mitigates loss as far as possible. I think he will sell the stadium on the premises of a dream which will become a nightmare. He'll get them into Murrayfield then clear his desk. Then I thought some more about it and forgot about the Edinburgh Hearts Friendly Council. They seem to bend in ways to help Hearts that they don't do to help Hibs. Eg when Farmer wanted to develop our stadium further. We had to concede the idea after the council knocked the area behind ER's planned purpose, but were happy to rubber stamp the land as a residential area. So while it wasn't what we really wanted, it allowed the club to realise a dorment asset and deliver funds to support the regeneration of our stadium.

The council would probably look at the big clubs plight and deem their existance to be too valuable an asset to the local economy and community and bail them out somehow.

[Kojock]

Dont know how they will do it but I think they will manipulate the figures to £23 million. They will then propose to sell Tynie as they have outgrown it and be debt free.

They will then make noises about building a super duper pie in the sky stadium but the council etc are putting barriers in their way and preventing them from realising their dream. Vlad will spit the dummy out have rant about the corruption in Scottish football and claim he has been forced to sell up and will return to a heros welcome in his homeland (and down Leith way)

Hearts will reform and merge with Dumbarton and will be known as Dumbhearts. :agree:

[Caversham Green]

I would suggest they will stagger on until he manages to extract as much value as possible from the main asset - i.e. the land at the PBS. That's why I suspect they are going through the "consultation" about the fabulous new stadium. Hopefully, Mad Vlad will trick the Yams with some ruse about a stadium being built, sell the PBS, move to "temporary" accommodation - Murrayfield, Livi, whereever - while the new stadium is being built and then mysteriously it all goes belly-up, no new stadium, Vlad pockets the PBS cash in payment of loans and then b*gg*rs off into the sunset, saying it was a conspiracy by the SFA, Edinburgh Cooncil, old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all to stop the Yams winning the Champions' League for the tenth year in a row and not his fault at all. :greengrin

Or am I just being cynical? :wink:

The first thing that crossed my mind when the new stadium was mooted was that Mr Romanov would be getting his hands on the land in Gorgie at the bottom of the market, but in fact it has already cost him at least £30m so I think his game plan has changed since 2005. It's notable that he seems very keen to keep the debt above £30m, I couldn't really say why, but I reckon there's a bit of creative accounting going on over in Lithland.

One other point. Why did Mr Romanov insist on playing a weakened team against Rangers to effectively guarantee them the title? Even boati Jim threw a tantrum at that one. It added value to the Huns and made their offloading to a new owner slightly less of a theft (albeit the day after the event). Now the Yams appear to be supporting Murray in his venture to get a stadium built on the green belt. Is Mr Romanov's exit strategy to offload the Yams to Murray? Time will tell, but you heard it here first.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Reminds me of the trick when you think of a number, x it by x etc etc..........

I was thinking about this this morning. I get the feeling that Romanov is looking for an exit strategty which mitigates loss as far as possible. I think he will sell the stadium on the premises of a dream which will become a nightmare. He'll get them into Murrayfield then clear his desk. Then I thought some more about it and forgot about the Edinburgh Hearts Friendly Council. They seem to bend in ways to help Hearts that they don't do to help Hibs. Eg when Farmer wanted to develop our stadium further. We had to concede the idea after the council knocked the area behind ER's planned purpose, but were happy to rubber stamp the land as a residential area. So while it wasn't what we really wanted, it allowed the club to realise a dorment asset and deliver funds to support the regeneration of our stadium.

The council would probably look at the big clubs plight and deem their existance to be too valuable an asset to the local economy and community and bail them out somehow.

As the team of the establishment the Yams will always have more clout with the council than us. But in these tough times its highly doubtfull that they will or would assist the Yams with any tax payers money.

If the Yams move from Gorgie it will almost certainly be to a site the other side of the bypass ( outside of the city boundary? ) which wont help any businesses in the local community.

Would that also leave Hibs able to claim that we are the only professional football club in Edinburgh and able to claim that we are Edinburgh's team.

:greengrin

















It will also leave Hibs able to claim.

[Andy74]

Why would we need to guess? The figures are out already for the debt.

The current figure won't be announced until the next set of late accounts.

[Sodje_18]

42.3 million, mind you only wee teams talk about debt :rolleyes:

[Seveno]

For a fraction of their debt we could have a competitive team which could put a little bit of excitement into our humdrum existence. But that would be sacrilegious to the Petrie doctrine, so let's just enjoy ripping into their success by reminding them of their imminent demise.:rolleyes:


So exactly how much debt do you advocate and how do you suggest that it is paid back ?

[Seveno]

The first thing that crossed my mind when the new stadium was mooted was that Mr Romanov would be getting his hands on the land in Gorgie at the bottom of the market, but in fact it has already cost him at least £30m so I think his game plan has changed since 2005. It's notable that he seems very keen to keep the debt above £30m, I couldn't really say why, but I reckon there's a bit of creative accounting going on over in Lithland.

One other point. Why did Mr Romanov insist on playing a weakened team against Rangers to effectively guarantee them the title? Even boati Jim threw a tantrum at that one. It added value to the Huns and made their offloading to a new owner slightly less of a theft (albeit the day after the event). Now the Yams appear to be supporting Murray in his venture to get a stadium built on the green belt. Is Mr Romanov's exit strategy to offload the Yams to Murray? Time will tell, but you heard it here first.

I can see why he might want to cosy up to Murray, if he genuinely wants a new stadium at Hermiston Gate. I can't see Murray wanting to own a football club again though. It worked out disastrously with one where he could make money.

I always assumed that the Mad One was hoping to do a deal with the Council whereby a move from Tynecastle could have freed up a large inner city parcel of land when you add on the Council's yard at Russell Road, increasing the value of both at the time of the property boom. This would then allow a joint venture at Saughton that would also accomodate Edinburgh Rugby. It would be a small stadium admittedly but tickets would be at a premium and they could charge the earth as 400,000 Yam fanatics vie for 15,000 seats. Either that or they move to Murrayfield.

[The Falcon]

The first thing that crossed my mind when the new stadium was mooted was that Mr Romanov would be getting his hands on the land in Gorgie at the bottom of the market, but in fact it has already cost him at least £30m so I think his game plan has changed since 2005. It's notable that he seems very keen to keep the debt above £30m, I couldn't really say why, but I reckon there's a bit of creative accounting going on over in Lithland.

One other point. Why did Mr Romanov insist on playing a weakened team against Rangers to effectively guarantee them the title? Even boati Jim threw a tantrum at that one. It added value to the Huns and made their offloading to a new owner slightly less of a theft (albeit the day after the event). Now the Yams appear to be supporting Murray in his venture to get a stadium built on the green belt. Is Mr Romanov's exit strategy to offload the Yams to Murray? Time will tell, but you heard it here first.

I see what you saying but, after the Rangers fiasco, why would Murray want to get involved with another football club? Rangers finances were an absolute train wreck and Murray (and Rangers) have both been lucky to get out of that one .

So far, I would add.

[Caversham Green]

I can see why he might want to cosy up to Murray, if he genuinely wants a new stadium at Hermiston Gate. I can't see Murray wanting to own a football club again though. It worked out disastrously with one where he could make money.

I always assumed that the Mad One was hoping to do a deal with the Council whereby a move from Tynecastle could have freed up a large inner city parcel of land when you add on the Council's yard at Russell Road, increasing the value of both at the time of the property boom. This would then allow a joint venture at Saughton that would also accomodate Edinburgh Rugby. It would be a small stadium admittedly but tickets would be at a premium and they could charge the earth as 400,000 Yam fanatics vie for 15,000 seats. Either that or they move to Murrayfield.




I see what you saying but, after the Rangers fiasco, why would Murray want to get involved with another football club? Rangers finances were an absolute train wreck and Murray (and Rangers) have both been lucky to get out of that one .

So far, I would add.

:greengrin The Murray comment was slightly tongue in cheek, although it's not unfeasible. Mr Romanov takes possession of Tynie, thereby reducing the amount of debt due to him and Murray buys the yams for a quid plus a personal guarantee on the remaining debt. That's all they're worth but the reduced debt makes them a bit more viable and meanwhile Mr Romanov has got much more than he could otherwise reasonably expect. Murray then has a pressure point for the council to let him build his new stadium (which is what he's really after) and a ready made tenant when it has been built.

I do think the sequence of events surrounding the sale of Rangers stinks, as does Mr Romanov's throwing of the Rangers game but whether the two are linked remains to be seen.

[Kaiser1962]

And by getting to build the stadium on the green belt then opens the whole area to development? On land that, when purchased, was protected from development and the price would have reflected thisI would think?

A cunning plan if ever I saw one and, no CG, its not unfeasible. The only headline here would be that "Hearts get used by tycoon, Yet AGAIN!!"


:greengrin The Murray comment was slightly tongue in cheek, although it's not unfeasible. Mr Romanov takes possession of Tynie, thereby reducing the amount of debt due to him and Murray buys the yams for a quid plus a personal guarantee on the remaining debt. That's all they're worth but the reduced debt makes them a bit more viable and meanwhile Mr Romanov has got much more than he could otherwise reasonably expect. Murray then has a pressure point for the council to let him build his new stadium (which is what he's really after) and a ready made tenant when it has been built.

I do think the sequence of events surrounding the sale of Rangers stinks, as does Mr Romanov's throwing of the Rangers game but whether the two are linked remains to be seen.

[spike220]

28.1 million

But they will also state they need to move ASAP and that will cost big time!

[Lucius Apuleius]

What gets me is this. If I bought a football team to try and make it sucessful, I would go and watch them regularly. If I bought something I thoughts I could asset strip and make money from, I would not be seen there very often.

[Dr Jimmy]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;2820351]:greengrin The Murray comment was slightly tongue in cheek, although it's not unfeasible. Mr Romanov takes possession of Tynie, thereby reducing the amount of debt due to him and Murray buys the yams for a quid plus a personal guarantee on the remaining debt. That's all they're worth but the reduced debt makes them a bit more viable and meanwhile Mr Romanov has got much more than he could otherwise reasonably expect. Murray then has a pressure point for the council to let him build his new stadium (which is what he's really after) and a ready made tenant when it has been built.


Does Romanov/ubig not already own the PBS anyway?
If so why would he have to put any money from the sale of the PBS towards the current debt, they have already had various payment gifts over the years.
I am not an expert but could hearts be left with the same debt after any sale of the PBS?

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;2820351]:greengrin The Murray comment was slightly tongue in cheek, although it's not unfeasible. Mr Romanov takes possession of Tynie, thereby reducing the amount of debt due to him and Murray buys the yams for a quid plus a personal guarantee on the remaining debt. That's all they're worth but the reduced debt makes them a bit more viable and meanwhile Mr Romanov has got much more than he could otherwise reasonably expect. Murray then has a pressure point for the council to let him build his new stadium (which is what he's really after) and a ready made tenant when it has been built.


Does Romanov/ubig not already own the PBS anyway?
If so why would he have to put any money from the sale of the PBS towards the current debt, they have already had various payment gifts over the years.
I am not an expert but could hearts be left with the same debt after any sale of the PBS?

No, HoMFC still own the PBS, but there's a fixed security over it in favour of UBIG, so they can essentially take possession any time they want after a bit of paper shuffling. And it would reduce the debt down to where the much-maligned Pieman had it before 'Mr Romanov' came in.

Only they wouldn't have a stadium any more.

[grunt]

It seems that at the AGM it was claimed that Mr Romanov had invested £60m into Hearts during his tenure. I can't see how this is correct, and I'm amazed that the Hearts machine just say these words and they are taken as gospel by the fans. Like the £30m paid in taxes, and the fact that they made a profit this year. Unbelievable.

[aberhibsfc]

Tick-tock :timebomb: :******:

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/aboutuefa/organisation/executivecommittee/news/newsid=1493078.html

:lurksub:
'The full UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, edition 2010, will be published in June and will be available on UEFA.com. Clubs will be assessed on a risk basis, taking into account debts and salary levels, as well as the following main pillars:

• Break-even requirement – clubs must not spend more than they generate over a period of time
• No overdues payable during the season – towards other clubs, employees and/or social/tax authorities
• Provision of future financial information – to ensure clubs can meet their future obligations'

:ostrich::sofa::brokenyam::vladsheep::lolyam::tita nic::jamboclow

[greenginger]

As stated previously, the Hearts debt at 31 July 2010 was £36.1m - up £1.4m despite a £7.9m forgiveness of debt.

That £7.9m is the important issue here. Why was nothing said about it in July 2010 when it is supposed to have taken place? We heard plenty about the debt for equity swap a few months later. Here's why.

The concept of 'going concern' is fundamental to the audit report. As it stands the report is one of uncertainty - the auditors can't be sure the the company is a going concern. If that changes to disagreement (i.e. the auditors cannot accept that the company is a going concern) the company would be forced to close down. In practice the auditors would never actually sign such a report, they would simply resign (I've actually found myself in that situation and my firm lost a few thousand pounds in fees as a result).

Hearts have a self-imposed borrowing limit of £40m. That means that when they go above that the company is acting outwith its parameters and is technically not a going concern. If the year end accounts show this situation the auditors are in the position outlined above. What has happened is that after all the audit adjustments went through Hearts were found to be £44m in debt so either they were out of business or a way had to be found to bring that debt down. Under the circumstances the forgiveness of debt was carried out retrospectively so that they could keep trading in the short-term.

I know some people are sick of the stories about the yams going bust, but that's the reality of how close they are to the edge. Mr Romanov has been much more generous than I would have expected and they will stagger on until he gets bored or goes broke. New stadium? Not a chance.


Very interesting CG and a couple of points spring to mind.

Firstly there must be little or no financial control, budget projection, or loan requirement projection as it looks as if they only recently became aware of last year's level of debt at the PBS .

Secondly if the forgiveness debt was meant to have been agreed before the end of their financial year in July 2010 there should have been a dated minute to that effect for the Auditors to inspect.:rolleyes::fibber:

Are they still claiming this debt write-off makes them EUFA compliant ?

[Greentinted]

Guess The Hearts Debt!

How much does the devil charge these days?

[Hibernia Na Eir]

What does the winner get? They might have debt but we are makin zero progress on that lot. Disgrace.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

As stated previously, the Hearts debt at 31 July 2010 was £36.1m - up £1.4m despite a £7.9m forgiveness of debt.

That £7.9m is the important issue here. Why was nothing said about it in July 2010 when it is supposed to have taken place? We heard plenty about the debt for equity swap a few months later. Here's why.

The concept of 'going concern' is fundamental to the audit report. As it stands the report is one of uncertainty - the auditors can't be sure the the company is a going concern. If that changes to disagreement (i.e. the auditors cannot accept that the company is a going concern) the company would be forced to close down. In practice the auditors would never actually sign such a report, they would simply resign (I've actually found myself in that situation and my firm lost a few thousand pounds in fees as a result).

Hearts have a self-imposed borrowing limit of £40m. That means that when they go above that the company is acting outwith its parameters and is technically not a going concern. If the year end accounts show this situation the auditors are in the position outlined above. What has happened is that after all the audit adjustments went through Hearts were found to be £44m in debt so either they were out of business or a way had to be found to bring that debt down. Under the circumstances the forgiveness of debt was carried out retrospectively so that they could keep trading in the short-term.

I know some people are sick of the stories about the yams going bust, but that's the reality of how close they are to the edge. Mr Romanov has been much more generous than I would have expected and they will stagger on until he gets bored or goes broke. New stadium? Not a chance.

or dies.... Thats when hearts day will come to a bitter end. And im happy to say i am a lot younger than romanov so i will see that day :-)

[Castle FP]

how can it be debt if they owe it to themselves? :wink:
Good point anyone with an answer

[Big Ed]

Good point anyone with an answer

Because they don't owe it to themselves; they owe it to a foreign financial institution (UBIG) which happens to be a company that Hearts' majority sharholder (Romanov) also has a majority of shares in.
That's quite a cosy arrangment just now, but you'll see just how much they don't owe it to themselves if the Romanov decides on a change of direction for UBIG. An example would be if he were to sell his shares in UBIG. Would they still owe it to themselves then? :no way::no way:

[YehButNoBut]

According to this report, Hearts director Vitalijus Vasiliauskas is aiming to balance the books at Tynecastle with a five-year-plan of season on season wage cuts between 10-15%.

The debt at Hearts is believed to be around £25million and the new business model is aimed at continuing to reduce overheads.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/hearts/254781-hearts-to-slash-wage-bill/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[grunt]

...the new business model is aimed at continuing to reduce overheads.Shame that their overheads (excluding wages costs) went up last year then.

[Caversham Green]

Very interesting CG and a couple of points spring to mind.

Firstly there must be little or no financial control, budget projection, or loan requirement projection as it looks as if they only recently became aware of last year's level of debt at the PBS .

Yep. That's why their audit fee was £36,000 while ours was £10,000 and Aberdeen's was £14,000.


Secondly if the forgiveness debt was meant to have been agreed before the end of their financial year in July 2010 there should have been a dated minute to that effect for the Auditors to inspect.:rolleyes::fibber:

Are they still claiming this debt write-off makes them EUFA compliant ?

Not on the Yam's side. A letter of confirmation from the creditors would normally be enough - and 'Mr Romanov' controls the creditors. And yes, they are claiming that it makes them EUFA compliant, even though the 2010 accounts aren't part of the assessment process.


Shame that their overheads (excluding wages costs) went up last year then.

:agree: Based on the 2010 figures they'll have to reduce their total staff costs to £570,000 just to break even.

[greenginger]

or dies.... Thats when hearts day will come to a bitter end. And im happy to say i am a lot younger than romanov so i will see that day :-)


Would'nt wish an early demise on anyone, but was'nt that part of the heroic Vlad-Saga when he first arrived.

Vlad's father had died when he was only 20 ish and Vlad had to become the family bread-winner.

TIC-TOCK TIC-TOCK

[JohnnyHibby]

Let's not forget the 5,575 that pitched up for Mackay's testimonial.

Mind you, that crowd was massive compared to the 3,500 that pitched up for Levein.


Really?....brilliant.............Just goes to show you should never assume as it will make an ass out of you and me..........and in this case you YAM plonkers...its YOU.....:asshole:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Good point anyone with an answer


Hearts owe their debt to a failing wannabe Lithuanian dodgy Russian businessman.

Hearts ARE a failing dodgy Russian businessman, with Lithuanian leanings, ego trip.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Good point anyone with an answer

Why would you charge yourself interest if it was money you owed yourself?

Case closed.

[iwasthere1972]

Let's not forget the 5,575 that pitched up for Mackay's testimonial.

Mind you, that crowd was massive compared to the 3,500 that pitched up for Levein.


Really?....brilliant.............Just goes to show you should never assume as it will make an ass out of you and me..........and in this case you YAM plonkers...its YOU.....:asshole:

I know your reply is not to me but I can't understand why you've quoted hibs0006 and replied in the way you have.

I'm just curious that's all. :aok:

[JohnnyHibby]

I know your reply is not to me but I can't understand why you've quoted hibs0006 and replied in the way you have.

I'm just curious that's all. :aok:

I know what you said but my reply was a general statement to our Yam neighbours on why you should never assume......they are having a dig at us yet there own players did not have that great attendances for their testimonials.....I agree with your point but they (Yams) have short memories....